One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: the_boy_jake on July 19, 2010, 11:24:48 PM
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Realistically?
i.e. Thompson, Hislop, Kingy are dispensable but not tradeable as no-one wants them
I reckon the following should be put up at the end of the season to see what is available
Moore, McGuane, Rance, White, Tambling
Nahas, Polo and Morton are probably untradeable due to being regulars at Coburg but who knows... Port took Schulz after all.
I don't think Vickery will make it - he's developing but not quickly enough. Another Patto for me, simply hasn't got the footy smarts. Tough to say what we would get in return though with the upcoming draft.
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Tyrone has just turned 20....played 23 games. :gobdrop
You cant be serious Jake...even Nick Nat has struggled this year.
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Tyrone has just turned 20....played 23 games. :gobdrop
You cant be serious Jake...even Nick Nat has struggled this year.
I know mate but I am serious. The dumbfounded look on his face at the centre bounces when he didn't even know what he was doing wrong. He's either a slow learner or Lade can't coach. More than happy to be proven wrong.
Spoiling McGuane. Dropping simple marks. Crunching Thursty. He's not playing based on his form and should be at Coburg learning the simple things not being made to look a bit foolish every other week.
Anyway its all about the Warren Buffett approach for me - sell when their stock is high. Yes there is a long way to go but I'm extrapolating his progress and I can't see him being a real damaging ruck/forward for us, that's all. Like I said, the compromised draft means we probably wouldn't get back what we paid for him anyway.
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103kg
26 yoa
93 games
McIntosh - pick 9 2002
89Kg
20
23 games
vickery - Pick 8 2008
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Goldstein at pick 37 and just 25 games under his belt (admittedly 20 months older) looked a better long-term prospect....
And comparing weights... Ty's got a narrow shouldered frame... doubt he will be a real brute of a ruckman anyway. Needs to compensate by being a mobile marking option and being clever at the stoppages/bounces.
I'm more concerned about his development 'above the shoulders' than anything else
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Well anyone is tradable at the right price as we really only have perhaps half a dozen players at the most that are non-negotiables.
Right now Polo, Tambling, Morton, Nahas would be close to the top of the trade tree. Not that we would get anymore than for what we got for Rainesy (pick 44) in return. McGuane would be on the trade table for mine as well as we may get a decent pick in return but I don't see the Club trading him nor another club wanting to take on his current contract which lasts another two years after this one.
Retired/delistees: Simmonds (ret.), Polak*, McMahon, Hislop, Thomson, King, Cousins (ret. ?), Gourdis*, Roberts* (?)
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Mcguane & Tambing to GC17 for around picks 10 & 30 would be a win !!
Nahas has got to go (sorry Robin) no-one will trade for him though.
WOuld almost look at trading Foley for a top 10 pick to GC17 also if it was on offer (pick 6) maybe.
Polo, Rance I would trade for almost anything.
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Jake your kidding yourself about Vickery. They take time to develop. Post is one who will come good just wait and see.
Many to go before him pal like dime a dozen flankers in Polo, Rance, Tambling and Morton. Nahas is for the tip he couldnt get a root in a brothel that bloke let alone a suitable trade.
Mcguane is the big one. Doubt he is going anywhere because for some stupid reason if the word is right, he was signed on a 3 year del for 450k :banghead :banghead
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Goldstein at pick 37 and just 25 games under his belt (admittedly 20 months older) looked a better long-term prospect....
And comparing weights... Ty's got a narrow shouldered frame... doubt he will be a real brute of a ruckman anyway. Needs to compensate by being a mobile marking option and being clever at the stoppages/bounces.
I'm more concerned about his development 'above the shoulders' than anything else
Goldstein was taken in the 2006 draft and as you said is almost 2 years older than Ty
At the same stage of his career (Round 16 2008) he had played only 2 games for total combined stats of 5 kicks, 4 handballs, 4 marks, 2 goals and 18 hitouts.
I think Vickery is ahead of him by... a lot
He is miles ahead of schedule. Not developing quickly enough? That would have to be one of the stupidest comments ever on this forum and that says a lot.
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Mcguane & Tambing to GC17 for around picks 10 & 30 would be a win !!
Nahas has got to go (sorry Robin) no-one will trade for him though.
WOuld almost look at trading Foley for a top 10 pick to GC17 also if it was on offer (pick 6) maybe.
Polo, Rance I would trade for almost anything.
Not sure why everyone is looking to trade to the Gold Coast. They have come out publically and said that they are only signing 8 (of 16 allowed) uncontracted players and won't be trading their early picks.
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Not developing quickly enough? That would have to be one of the stupidest comments ever on this forum and that says a lot.
Let's come back to this one in a couple of years time....
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Goldstein at pick 37 and just 25 games under his belt (admittedly 20 months older) looked a better long-term prospect....
And comparing weights... Ty's got a narrow shouldered frame... doubt he will be a real brute of a ruckman anyway. Needs to compensate by being a mobile marking option and being clever at the stoppages/bounces.
I'm more concerned about his development 'above the shoulders' than anything else
Goldstein was taken in the 2006 draft and as you said is almost 2 years older than Ty
At the same stage of his career (Round 16 2008) he had played only 2 games for total combined stats of 5 kicks, 4 handballs, 4 marks, 2 goals and 18 hitouts.
I think Vickery is ahead of him by... a lot
He is miles ahead of schedule. Not developing quickly enough? That would have to be one of the stupidest comments ever on this forum and that says a lot.
I dont think so, there's nothing wrong with his physical development, he has fantastic agility for his size, speed, looks good at times andis cleary puttng on mass, but I am a bit concerned with how he comes across in the upstairs department.
I've learnt that what seperates the succes stories from the flops in drafts is not 'perceived talent', having the tools or tracking equal to or better than other prspects previously, its all about desire, mental strength & attitude. Some players want to and demand to belong by working their behinds off, some hope to belong, big difference. Hope I'm wrong but I don't think Ty has that killer desire that say a Jack, Cotch or Dusty has..
now back to the OP... for mine McGuane back to his homestate, and anything we can get for tambling. Don't think we'd get anything for anyone else we don't want to keep.
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Realistically?
i.e. Thompson, Hislop, Kingy are dispensable but not tradeable as no-one wants them
I reckon the following should be put up at the end of the season to see what is available
Moore, McGuane, Rance, White, Tambling
Nahas, Polo and Morton are probably untradeable due to being regulars at Coburg but who knows... Port took Schulz after all.
I don't think Vickery will make it - he's developing but not quickly enough. Another Patto for me, simply hasn't got the footy smarts. Tough to say what we would get in return though with the upcoming draft.
I don't think we should trade Kelvin Moore because he is probably one of the better players we have at the club, but apart from that the list is pretty good. McGuane is ok but not good enough to play deep into September. Rance just hasn't been able to establish himself in the side at all, while both White and Tambling seem to have the talent there but are frustratingly inconsistent, and in Tambling's case he's not exactly a young player anymore, he's played enough that it's becoming more and more clear that he's not quite up to it. As for Vickery, i'm willing to give him a bit more time to prove himself, and i'm not sure whether we would be able to trade him for any better ruckmen.
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Not developing quickly enough? That would have to be one of the stupidest comments ever on this forum and that says a lot.
Let's come back to this one in a couple of years time....
Minimum, ruckmen don't really start blossoming until they are 23+ years old, Ty is still only 20.
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Let's come back to this one in a couple of years time....
Minimum, ruckmen don't really start blossoming until they are 23+ years old, Ty is still only 20.
I think there are two dimensions to that really.
Of course there are players like Jolly, Jamar who blossom late on. And there are players like Sandilands who start well and get better and better.
On the other hand, there are players like Pattison for whom it is clear before the end of their 4th season that they don't really fit in at AFL level. Pattison's best year was at 21 and he's got worse since. Pattison's Richmond years were for me characterised by a certain clumsiness and a general impression that he didn't really sense what was going on around him - where to run to find the footy, when to run forward, when he was under pressure and when he wasn't. He also had terrible movement and balance. I was pretty down on his prospects early on. Is there a chance that he will become a Jolly? There must be a chance but I think it is pretty slim. On Vickery, I see a little bit of that clumsiness and lack of awareness too and that is what is really bothering me.
Anyway agree to disagree.
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Pattison failed because he wasn't tall enough and had no leap to compensate so he was always going to struggle, especially with the change to the ruck rules which favoured the taller ruckmen. He also was never quick enough to be a kpp, so he was an inbetweener and he won't be the last of his type. James Sellar at Adelaide is a good chance to end up just like him as well.
You have a strange recollection of Sandilands starting well though, the guy was an absolute hack early on, completely butchered the ball when he actually got near it. He also debuted when he was 2 months older than Vickery is today after spending his first year in the WAFL. I know he played a lot in his first season and I think he got a Rising Star nomination too, but he was very clumsy and there were massive doubts on him making it.
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Sandilands was clumsy, but got 40+ hitouts in a game in his first season on a senior list. That is a good return in anyone's books and of course you persevere with that.
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Sandilands was clumsy, but got 40+ hitouts in a game in his first season on a senior list. That is a good return in anyone's books and of course you persevere with that.
Well obviously his massive height had a lot to do with the pure quantity of hitouts, however its taken a long time before he's actually learnt how to tap to advantage. There were articles only a year or two ago about how predictable he was for opposition midfielders to rove to his taps. Obviously he's one of the best in the game now, but it's still taken him a good 7 years to get to that level.
First year on a senior list is a bit misleading too, he was 20 years old and had been on the Freo list for a full year before he got a shot at senior level, so it's not like he just walked in to the side after getting drafted. As I pointed out, on his debut he was still older than Vickery is now and older than he will be at the end of the season.
If you want to compare them at the same age then you'll have to see how Tyrone goes next year and compare that to Sandilands first season.
Just like you persist with a 211cm giant who gets 41 hitouts in a game in his first season, you persist with a young ruckman taken with Pick 8 who has played 17 games of AFL before he's even turned 20.
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I would think (hope) anyone outside of:
Lids, Cotch, Jack, Newman, Martin and all other first year players from this year
Would be tradeable but I doubt that will be the case.
I reckon you could add a couple more to the list above that wont be considered for trade but should be ONLY if there is a really good deal for the club on the table
However, I think anyone not currently contracted for 2011 would automatically be up for trade (not saying I agree with that but that's what I think) and I also think that there will be some currnetly under contract for 2011 that may be thrown up to test the market