One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: PuntRdRoar on December 20, 2004, 10:35:30 AM
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;) :scream
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Despite the positive changes I'm still expecting a bottom 4 finish so RT I think you'll get your wish. IMO it'll be a couple of seasons yet before we see these changes bear fruit. That's not to say we should aim for a bottom 4 finish and I'd reckon Terry will have the boys playing a better brand of footy to watch that's for sure but you can't expect kids, even the most talented ones, to come straight out of the U18s and get you into the finals. Even the "baby bombers" had a number of seasoned finals campaigners around them. Deep down I'd say Wallace and Co. know this otherwise Terry wouldn't have a 5 year deal. Hopefully us supporters are equally as patient.
One more year to clean out the last remaining duds and to score another couple of young quality KPPs plus another midfielder (you can never have too many of them). The depth of our list over time as these kids develop should become strong as a result. By 2006 the only way is up and up and up :thumbsup.
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I'd say we've still got at least 2 years left as a bottom 6 side .
Having youth is great, but there's no way that half a team of 18, 19 and 20 year olds can get us into the finals. i'd be looking more towards the 2007-2008 mark to become a finals contender.
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As MT says, there’s still another clean out of the list to go. After that’s done, the depth of our list will have improved significantly.
In the meantime, where we finish over the next couple of years isn’t that relevant to me. What’s important is that we see the development of our players and a better style of play and game plan emerge. Once all that happens, the ladder position will look after itself.
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Agree with your heading Ramps - a bottom position again next year for me too.
As long as i see improvement in the kids, and we can get rid of the rest of the deadwood in Cambell lol, etc, we'll have a completely new team - a team without a negative past - but a positive future, i hope.
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Another year like the last one and you can guarantee all our young players will inherit the loser mentality, its imperative that we go close to making the finals and i dont think its too much to ask of our list even if it is a young one!
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Another year like the last one and you can guarantee all our young players will inherit the loser mentality, its imperative that we go close to making the finals and i dont think its too much to ask of our list even if it is a young one!
I think you make a fair point Disco - we need to be ultra competitive IMO. To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if me make the eight - history tells us that our senior players always seem to improve immediately under a new coach. :banghead
Do I think we will make the eight - NO but if it happens I wont be shocked. I reckon we a chance for 7-10 wins and that will help the kids confidence.
I reckon with so many kids that we are more likley to start of in blaze of glory but as the season progresses and the kids in particular start to tire then we will drop away. And to be honest I don't care as long as the kids are developed and we are continually playing a fast attacking brand of footy, the results in time will take care of themselves :thumbsup
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We shouldn't be aiming for the bottom, but it is imperative that we make the development of the younger players the priority.
I don't want to see our kids thrown in from day 1, as it could be more damaging than beneficial for them long term. It is important that the ones that need to bulk up are put on a high intensity weights program and a diet in accordance and if they bulk up quickly and are cutting back on the cardio work a bit, it may mean that in the short term (i.e. the first season) they are unable to play 4 quarters of AFL footy. I'd rather see this than a pack of runts with super endurance running around against men just to appease eager fans.
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I reckon with so many kids that we are more likley to start of in blaze of glory but as the season progresses and the kids in particular start to tire then we will drop away.
That's how I see it too WP. The Pies, Saints and Geelong all went through this as well. I think we'll also see us at least causing one major upset by knocking off a top side then probably losing the following week as young sides have a habit of doing.
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excellent topic considering the election result and all that...
miller set the wheels in motion 2 years ago, its now time for us to pace ourselves and not peak and crash and burn, i would expect some more quality draft choices next year....
the fiscal situation has been sorted, and if by chance we have a season out of the box, considering the club has budgeted for a $150,000 lose, we could come out in front next year which might allow us to manoveur come trade time next year...
personally wallace is the key in all this, he is the class act, that i know am going to love watch coaching in the next five years, as he keeps presenting himself in the media about all things richmond he impresses me more with his professionalism....
here is a guy that wants to reach the summit and what fantastic timing just as the wheel seems to be turning for us but if we are gonna do it lets do it properly, god knows we owe quite a few opposition supporters the wrath of richmond supporters, and what nicer way of doing it than been successful but consistently successful....
eatemalivein05
eatemalivein05
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One thing Wallace mentions in the DVD which is relevent to this topic is he doesn't support the view of bottoming out for the sake of bottoming out, 5 year plans and spending 4 years down the bottom of the ladder collecting high draft picks. He mentioned Geelong as an example of what his views on rebuilding are - getting good talent into the club while remaining competitive on-field.
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i see finals in 3-4 years.
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Having a look at the side, we will finish bottom 4, but that does not mean we cannot get 8 or so wins.
I will be happy with that, as long as we are competitive in about 20 games.
Next year, clean out ?
Morrison - out of contract
Campbell - out of contract
Stafford - out of contract
Chaffey - out of contract (i think)
Rodan - out of contract
Hall - out of contract
Hilton - out of contract
Tuck - out of contract
Tivva - out of contract - I think
Pettifer - out of contract
Kellaway - out of contract
There is nine. Kellaway, Tivva, Chaffey, Rodan, Hall, Hilton, Pettifer,Tuck and even Morrison will be worth something around the table.
2 will retire...
I expect all of them to step up considerably this year.
Hang ON. :o That could mean with the above 10 players playing for their lives, with the other seniors, and the young blokes pushing through, we could..... hey we could............. stuff we could MAKE the FINALS.
I may back em, about 11/4 at the moment to make the eight.
Probably worth a couple of quid.
Bugger, and this thread started by me saying I was expecting bottom 4.... :santa
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I believe Tivs has another year of his contract to go (to 2006). Agree with your list LT. Last chance for these guys. IMO Tuck, Morrison, Hilton, Pettifer, Rodan and Kellaway wouldn't be likely to be picked up by another AFL side. Kellaway is similar to Graham and only a club desperate for a tallish backman like we were would give him another chance at his age.
I don't disagree that if everything went our way in terms of lesser likes having a belter of a year and we copped no injuries to our key players we could sneak into the eight as our draw is good. 12 wins/10 losses would be a maximum though. The AFL comp. has 4-5 really good sides and the rest are mediocre. The remaining teams could finish anywhere especially the Melbourne-based sides. Just look at the Pies. They lose one of Rocca or Tarrant up forward with Buckley in and out of the side and their whole structure falls apart. However for this to happen everything and everyone has to click. Highly unlikely. Plus there is always a danger that if we were to fluke such a season and in my mind it would be a fluke that some around the Club would start thinking we were a better side than what we really are. Also finishing midtable 8th or 9th stuffs you up in the draft as we all know.
As LT said if we score 8 wins, are competitive in 20 games and our kids continue to develop along nicely then I'll be happy that in 2005.
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Realistically I think bottom four, but as several have mentioned witha new coach, a not bad draw and a reasonable run with injuries particularly to key players well you never know. I look at the Blues this year and how they started to turn things around and I think they have a worse list than us.
I think we'll be up and down next year as we strive to implement a more attacking game plan....after all our senior players have had this style of game drummed out of them over the last couple of years. :banghead
One thing's for sure, I know I'm not going to cringe every week as I look to see all 18 of our players in our backline trying to prevent the opposition from scoring. Please God don't let me see a loose man floating around our hf line :banghead Please God don't let me see Chaff as a loose (and I mean LOOSE) man on our hb line :banghead
It's been a long time since I've looked forward to a season so much...not even after 2001....
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Kellaway is similar to Graham and only a club desperate for a tallish backman like we were would give him another chance at his age.
Graham will be gone next year as well won't he? one year contract?
I don't disagree that if everything went our way in terms of lesser likes having a belter of a year and we copped no injuries to our key players we could sneak into the eight as our draw is good. 12 wins/10 losses would be a maximum though.
The AFL comp. has 4-5 really good sides and the rest are mediocre. Which are the four or five you rate MT?
Plus there is always a danger that if we were to fluke such a season and in my mind it would be a fluke that some around the Club would start thinking we were a better side than what we really are. After the last 23 years?
Also finishing midtable 8th or 9th stuffs you up in the draft as we all know.
8,9,10,11 are no different IMO
As LT said if we score 8 wins, are competitive in 20 games and our kids continue to develop along nicely then I'll be happy that in 2005.
I will be very happy with this scenario (especially after last year). :cheers
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Kellaway is similar to Graham and only a club desperate for a tallish backman like we were would give him another chance at his age.
Graham will be gone next year as well won't he? one year contract?
You're right H tiger that Graham only has a one year contract but if he has a good year and say a Kellaway doesn't - you could make the arguement to give him another 12 months - especially if a Schulz, Pattison or Archibald ( to name a few) don't come along as quickly as we'd like
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One thing's for sure, I know I'm not going to cringe every week as I look to see all 18 of our players in our backline trying to prevent the opposition from scoring. Please God don't let me see a loose man floating around our hf line :banghead Please God don't let me see Chaff as a loose (and I mean LOOSE) man on our hb line :banghead
It's been a long time since I've looked forward to a season so much...not even after 2001....
I think we will see lots of our players in the backline at times, but hopefully with an intention to get the ball and stream forward, not to get the ball and kick it around and around at halfback.
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The focus for 2005 is not where we finish on the ladder, but whether we're developing the youngsters well and play competitive football.
However, 2005 milestones dont apply to 2006. Although I'm not expecting us to play finals, I do expect the team to show massive improvement and convince the football public that we will be a strong finals side the following year.
I take Greg at his word. We are 2 years into a 4 year plan. 2006 is the year we will learn if we are on the right track or we've been suked in one more time. Unless of course we do in 2005 to Deledio and Tambling what we did to Pettifer and Fiora. And there's no Frawley around to take the flack this time Greg.
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Which are the four or five you rate MT?
Port (to go back to back), Saints and Brissy definitely. West Coast and Cats (? over forward line) in the next group.
Freo could surprise given they have put all their eggs into one basket for success in the next year or 2. The rest are mediocre IMV although Paul Roos always seems to get the best out of the Swans average but very even list and Sheeds, Hird and Lloyd carry the Dons.
After the last 23 years?
Remember straight after 95 and 2001. We thought we were better than we were :'(.
8,9,10,11 are no different IMO
Agree HT. There's top 4, bottom 4 and mediocre land in between.
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8,9,10,11 are no different IMO
Agree HT. There's top 4, bottom 4 and mediocre land in between.
Hmmm, bottom 4.
I cannot pick a bottom 4 next year without sticking the Tigers in there.
Hawks, Tigers and who else?
Dogs should step up and win more than 5 games.
Adelaide should improve.
Pies - will still be crap, but could they be worse than 2004?
Nth- will be mediocre but how much so?
Carlton - Will be mediocre and hopefully worse than last year. (I need them to finish bottom for a cash bonanza)
Cannot see who those bottom 4 will be now.........
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There’s some advantage to finishing bottom 4 again, but is it really a good thing if we win only say 5 games this year?
Last season, 8 wins earned a bottom 4 finish, but if we only win about 5 games, then can we really say we have improved in any way? Because if we change our style of play and improve our depth, the skill level of players, fitness, etc., etc. wouldn’t we expect to win a few more games and maybe some we wouldn’t normally expect to win?
I think it would be more important to see improvement on the field, rather than expecting a bottom 4 finish to ensure we are a successful team in the future.
If we don’t see improvement in all areas then draft picks alone won’t necessarily make us a better team now or later. Developing players and the style of game will.
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I reckon even if we reproduce the results we did last year it will still be considered an improvement becuase we will be doing it with a younger, more inexperienced list which is on the up, unlike in 2004 where we did it with a group of players who had reached a plateau and obviously weren't going to improve (fleming, weller, marsh, houlihan, blumfield etc.)
As such, it wouldn't bother me in the least if we finished with similar results to last year. With another influx of kids at the end of this year I can see 2005 and 2006 and years down the bottom. 2007 and 2008 we should be ready to rumble.
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Fair point JohnF.
I guess I’m expecting a lot more spirit within the team to get us a win here and there that we wouldn’t have previously expected, even though the team could consist of a high number of inexperienced players at the one time.
Then again, with a young line up, I suppose we could also lose some that we might expect to win too.
What it all seems to boil down to then is not so much how many games we win, but how results are achieved and whether we can see real improvement in players and the style of play.
I remember in 2003, the Saints would blitz in one quarter and suddenly go missing the next. They seemed to develop some consistency last season and maintain their form throughout games, which no doubt comes with experience and the advantage of a few pre seasons behind them.
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It took the Saints about 2 or 3 years to get the likes of Dal Santo and Riewoldt playing consistenly good footy before last years finals didn't it? I still believe they have a lot of maturing to do so I would say we would need 2-3 years to make finals and 5 to win the Big one. Premiers for 2010...The Richmond football club. A nice round number if you ask me and exactly 30 years between drinks. That's my prediciton.
Tiga Nostradamus has left the building.