One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: WA Tiger on May 08, 2011, 06:10:18 PM
-
So ..ok, early days yes....but.....we just can't afford to finish 9th AGAIN...what would be the outcome if we did. :scream
-
what would be the outcome if we did. :scream
A great result, it would show we have improved enormously and will be a great stepping stone into the 8 next season.....
-
So ..ok, early days yes....but.....we just can't afford to finish 9th AGAIN...what would be the outcome if we did. :scream
It wouldn't really bother me if we finished ninth this year, because that would almost certainly guarantee playing finals next year, given that we would continue to improve. It wouldn't be like finishing ninth from years gone by this is a totally different cat.
-
I'd spew
-
we have played finals twice in the last 30 years.
On both occasions we finished 9th the year before. :thumbsup
-
So ..ok, early days yes....but.....we just can't afford to finish 9th AGAIN...what would be the outcome if we did. :scream
we'd have the p*ss taken out of us to no end!
-
we have played finals twice in the last 30 years.
On both occasions we finished 9th the year before. :thumbsup
We've finished 9th on 6 occasions so there are 4 other occasions and gone backs! I don't like those odds but I did back Descarado in the Caulfield Cup so you never know!
I'd rather start this decade with a spot in the 8 to keep our record of playing finals in every decade since the 50s
-
one 9th finishes was after the first of our one year cameos in the finals, a stop off on the way down
the other three times they were the peaks of the upward trend, for whatever reason.
somehow i cant see this year being our peek and as we are in an upwards trend id take a 9th finish this year in a heartbeat.
-
This time last year I would of killed for ninth.
-
If we end up 9th I'd be rapted as it would mean we've improved alot on last years 6 wins which is what I want to see :thumbsup
-
So ..ok, early days yes....but.....we just can't afford to finish 9th AGAIN...what would be the outcome if we did. :scream
we'd have the p*ss taken out of us to no end!
Who cares what other people think. I'd take 9th over 10th.
-
If we end up 9th I'd be rapted as it would mean we've improved alot on last years 6 wins which is what I want to see :thumbsup
I'm sorry but "rapted" how much have you had to drink?
:cheers
-
Does anyone think finishing outside the top 8 9th-11th is actually a better finish for us than a 7th or 8th?
I'm worried about the round 1 build up next year if we manage to make up the numbers in the finals series and have this juggernaut of expectations for next year.
I mean finals will be sensational but it may do us more harm then good?
Too negative?
-
If we end up 9th I'd be rapted as it would mean we've improved alot on last years 6 wins which is what I want to see :thumbsup
I'm sorry but "rapted" how much have you had to drink?
:cheers
Sadly nothing because today isn't a day for drinking even less so when one's been crook
So what should I have typed "oh" great one
-
Theres no point in not wanting to win games. Id like players like Deledio and Cotchin and Martin to get a taste of finals footy even if we go out straight away. Finals experience is important. We may only be 1 more draft away and certainly 2 from having the list we need to contend down the track.
-
TBH I would rather finish 9th again this year.
This group is improving is young is determined is hungry. A year of improvement complemented with a 9th place finish would signify improvement and a step in the right direction, unlike our 9th in 2008 or North's 9th last year. We are a young squad on the improve I rally am not perturbed nor worry what others will say about us. They will have every reason to be concerned about our upward trend and how far we have come from this time last year where we were fossicking through the 2010 fixture like starving raccoons looking to see when and where our best chance of a win would be. A 9th place finish would mean that in 2 years with a turnover of 25 odd players from our list we have gone from 5.5 wins and 15th place to something around 11 wins and a climb to 9th.
To finish 8th or 7th may be great too but lets not look too far ahead lets get our game style and our structures right and anything that happens on our journey well and good. Hawthorn have had free hits since 2008 and may not get their this year either and as each year goes by their chances soon may start to diminish. Lets do this right and lets finish where our capabilities, skill and list management and quality allow us to finish and the end result will sort itself out. :gotigers
-
If we end up 9th I'd be rapted as it would mean we've improved alot on last years 6 wins which is what I want to see :thumbsup
I'm sorry but "rapted" how much have you had to drink?
:cheers
Sadly nothing because today isn't a day for drinking even less so when one's been crook
So what should I have typed "oh" great one
WP
A little annoyed maybe?
Tell me why.
::)
-
A little annoyed maybe?
Tell me why.
::)
Which part of "when's one been crook" didn't you understand ::)
-
So ..ok, early days yes....but.....we just can't afford to finish 9th AGAIN...what would be the outcome if we did. :scream
we'd have the p*ss taken out of us to no end!
Hmmm ... smell the fear. :thumbsup
-
9th is 1 spot from playing in a FINAL - I would spew
-
9th is 1 spot from playing in a FINAL - I would spew
It's also 6 spots higher than we have been in the last couple of years!
I don't get why people think it would that bad :banghead :banghead
-
9th is 1 spot from playing in a FINAL - I would spew
Yeah but 9th could mean you miss the finals by 2 or 3 games - perspective please
Question - going into the season did anyone seriously think we'd play finals ???
Would reckon if the majority was honest you'd say No
In 2010 we finished 15th with 6 wins and I think alot of people just want us to improve on that - the ladder position to a degree was not that relevant.
So....
Let's see how the season unfolds with the view that we need to; to continue to improve and see where we finish up.
In the end it would be great to snag a final but in the end for mine it's about continuing to improve in 2011 and if we end up 9th and we get say 10 wins then we know we've improved a helluva alot
Dare I say it keep a lid on it folks let's not get to caught up in the hype of it all. Sit back & enjoy the ride we are on, remembering there will be bumps along the way but it will all be worth it and it's just great to be part of it
-
9th is 1 spot from playing in a FINAL - I would spew
Yeah but 9th could mean you miss the finals by 2 or 3 games - perspective please
Question - going into the season did anyone seriously think we'd play finals ???
Would reckon if the majority was honest you'd say No
In 2010 we finished 15th with 6 wins and I think alot of people just want us to improve on that - the ladder position to a degree was not that relevant.
So....
Let's see how the season unfolds with the view that we need to; to continue to improve and see where we finish up.
In the end it would be great to snag a final but in the end for mine it's about continuing to improve in 2011 and if we end up 9th and we get say 10 wins then we know we've improved a helluva alot
Dare I say it keep a lid on it folks let's not get to caught up in the hype of it all. Sit back & enjoy the ride we are on, remembering there will be bumps along the way but it will all be worth it and it's just great to be part of it
There is no lid when it comes to the Richmond Army! Especially when its on the march, ready to steamroll all and sundry in its wake! :lol
-
We're fighting Melbourne & Sydney above us and Dogs & Eagles below us for a place in the 8.
We play Melb/Syd twice and Dogs/WC once each, need to win min 50% of those 6 games to give us a chance of finals. That would give us 6.5 wins.
Must beat everyone else below us on the ladder, Bris, Port, Crows, Suns, North for the other 5 wins.
11.5 wins should see us scrape into the 8 without really claiming a big scalp, and that is not unrealistic. I see us slipping up somewhere and finishing 10th, but there is hope.
Season defining game this weekend against the Doggies. :gotigers
-
I have plenty of perspective WP, think your falling into the trap of just slagging off & that happens a bit around here lately.
Living with the mentality of sides gone by! I don't know but I have doubts we will make the 8 this year, point is if we get close enough I would much rather be going to a game in September 'For the teams development as well' than be mowing the lawns again.
Once again 9th I would spew that we dont get to play in a final! but would be a satisfactory result in the scheme of things for sure.
-
We're fighting Melbourne & Sydney above us and Dogs & Eagles below us for a place in the 8.
We play Melb/Syd twice and Dogs/WC once each, need to win min 50% of those 6 games to give us a chance of finals. That would give us 6.5 wins.
Must beat everyone else below us on the ladder, Bris, Port, Crows, Suns, North for the other 5 wins.
11.5 wins should see us scrape into the 8 without really claiming a big scalp, and that is not unrealistic. I see us slipping up somewhere and finishing 10th, but there is hope.
Season defining game this weekend against the Doggies. :gotigers
With Gold Coast, Brisbane & Port Adelaide being so bad I expect it will take 12 wins at least to get into the finals this year
-
Too many draws. One of the sides currently on 14pts will make the 8 with 11.5 wins, bookmark it. The Dogs will need 12 to make it.
-
I have plenty of perspective WP, think your falling into the trap of just slagging off & that happens a bit around here lately.
Living with the mentality of sides gone by! I don't know but I have doubts we will make the 8 this year, point is if we get close enough I would much rather be going to a game in September 'For the teams development as well' than be mowing the lawns again.
Once again 9th I would spew that we dont get to play in a final! but would be a satisfactory result in the scheme of things for sure.
correct CUB in every way.
we come here to play finals and ultimately win a cup. With 30 years of failure in my book finishing 9th means we just missed out again.
Anything could happen next year. Injuries etc etc
Going to a finals game in front of 90k fans means more money for the club, which means more $$$ to the fighting fund/club heading into next year.
Making finals will mean more members dont be foolish into thinking anything else.
-
I have plenty of perspective WP, think your falling into the trap of just slagging off & that happens a bit around here lately.
I wasn't "slagging" off CUB I was just offering an opinion different to yours and a few others..
Don't get me wrong I'd love it if we played finals but realistically I cannot see happening this year.
Just because I am not prepared to get caught up too much in the excitement of 1 win against a good side doesn't mean I dont want finals it's just that I am looking at much bigger picutre than season 2011
History tells me that we are one loss away from people going ape wanting players dropped, traded and sent to the salt mines in Siberia ;D
correct CUB in every way.
we come here to play finals and ultimately win a cup. With 30 years of failure in my book finishing 9th means we just missed out again.
Anything could happen next year. Injuries etc etc
Going to a finals game in front of 90k fans means more money for the club, which means more $$$ to the fighting fund/club heading into next year.
Making finals will mean more members dont be foolish into thinking anything else.
daniel, not quite sure how you think playing finals in front of of 90k is going to mean more $$ from the gate to us seeing all gate takings from finals goes to the AFL. Certainly we would benefit on a sponsorship front going forward I reckon thats a given if we keep improving
And you are right anything could happen next year regarding injuries etc but lots of things could happen this year on the same front so I still think it is a case of just seeing how things go
And if we snag a final all well and good but if we don't that's not going to be the worse thing that could happen either
-
Finishing ninth would be a shocker to be honest and hurt us in the long run. We'd be lucky to get two picks in the top 50 with GWS hogging the draft and our first pick would be in the late teens. Our list is nowhere complete yet structurally (Jack is the only reliable KPP along our spine) to start pushing up the ladder (as much as watching us win is enjoyable right now). We really need another decent dip in the draft as we did last year to add more class to our list and fill holes/deficiencies we still have so in time when we do push into the top 8 we can match it with the top sides if not better them and push for top 4 if not top 2 in say 3 years time when our list matures. At the start of the year I was hoping for say a 14th finish (= about 8 wins) and another top 10 first pick; not ninth and pick 18 :P.
1. GWS
2. GWS
3. GWS
4. Bris
5. GWS
6. Port
7. GWS
8. North
9. GWS
10. St K
11. GWS
12. GC
13. GWS
14. Adel
15. GWS
16. WB
17. Eagles
18. Richmond
...
26. Coll
27. Bris (Compensation pick from last year)
28. Bris (Priority pick)
29. Port (Priority pick?)
* Chuck in here a whole bunch of picks created out of thin air by GWS ontrading non-AFL players other clubs want as GC did last year.
GWS
Bris
Port
North
St K
GC
Adel
WB
Eagles
Richmond ...... most likely a pick in the 40s.
-
Remember if we are playing well then our players are more tradable and more likely to be able to upgrade picks with someone
I certainly think we need to continue focussing on drafting more kids, but not at the expense of winning
-
Finishing ninth would be a shocker to be honest and hurt us in the long run. We'd be lucky to get two picks in the top 50 with GWS hogging the draft and our first pick would be in the late teens. Our list is nowhere complete yet structurally (Jack is the only reliable KPP along our spine) to start pushing up the ladder (as much as watching us win is enjoyable right now). We really need another decent dip in the draft as we did last year to add more class to our list and fill holes/deficiencies we still have so in time when we do push into the top 8 we can match it with the top sides if not better them and push for top 4 if not top 2 in say 3 years time when our list matures. At the start of the year I was hoping for say a 14th finish (= about 8 wins) and another top 10 first pick; not ninth and pick 18 :P.
So you are advocating the "Tank" ;D
I don't think we could now even if we wanted too :thumbsup ;D :rollin
-
Come on MT, we have to start winning some time. Can't spend the next 30 years hogging the high draft picks. Apart from anything else I'll be dead before we see the Tigers in the finals again if we do. :-[
-
That boat has well and truly sailed MT.
As Ramps posted sometime last year, it's full steam ahead now.
-
Yeah i was very pro tanking but that has changed. I believe our list is still not good enough to finish 9th but its not all that bad considering we picked up gems in Batch and Helbig with late picks.
Its time to start winning and building for our assault into the finals next year.
-
I'm been a huge advocate for the tank over the years but right now its not an option IMHO. Francis Jackson needs 1 more draft like the last one- at the most two. Can he find another Conca? Can he find another Batchelor? Can Hartley get us another couple of el cheapo cost players like Grigg and Houli that can add to the depth? Can we get one of GWS's 17 year old picks to get the A grade player we need to add. Can we of trade out the likes of Morton and Conners who probably arent adding anything to our structure? Right now, we need Francis Jackson to have one more good draft and for us to keep winning. Deledio, Cotchin, Riewoldt, Newman, Martin et al need some finals experience IMHO.
-
That boat has well and truly sailed MT.
As Ramps posted sometime last year, it's full steam ahead now.
Time to start developing a winning mentality amongst the playing group.
-
Sorry but I just couldn't do 9th again after sitting through so many 9th's during the 90's. We were known as the best team OUTSIDE the 8 for many years...Really with the start we have had or the resurgence this season finishing 8th would be the reward. 9th would be let down IMO and I would rather finish lower to get the picks.
-
how much lower WAT, to make the picks worth while?
last?
14th?
13th?
-
I was always a huge supporter of the tank when we were down the bottom of the ladder and our deficencies/depth problems were obvious. Now I believe we have enough depth to begin to start the gradual climb up the ladder. It is in our best interests to start to win now to highlight the players we have. With the new 16-year old GWS trade rule, we could get a top 5 player that fits our needs structurally if we have some player currency. If we continue to lose then the better teams will not only claim the chance for a flag but the best future player/s too!
Free Agency also will assist filling holes in the future. Claiming Trengrove may assist with our backline and ruck depth and in 2 or 3 years when we are a top 4 side we can really lure the big name established players to top up the list without worrying about sacraficing our future through trading away early picks as well. When free trading comes in it is the bigger more successful clubs that will benefit which means we need to start becoming successful.
The Tank is dead, long live the tank :thumbsup
-
how much lower WAT, to make the picks worth while?
last?
14th?
13th?
Anyone of those 3 Al. The player we could get between 9th and 13th, 14th etc... could make a huge difference next year. Look we were lucky with Batch IMO, how many more of him will there be next year??
-
..so from where we are now, you would prefer to lose most games for the rest of the year rather than keep improving?
-
..so from where we are now, you would prefer to lose most games for the rest of the year rather than keep improving?
No, but as I said in my first post we really should finish 8th the way we are travelling at the moment, or do we all think we have improved by finishing 9th as we did through the 90's only to realise that we still have many gaps to fill on field??
-
Lets win heaps of games and end up well and truly in the 8 and make this discussion moot. :thumbsup
-
Lets win heaps of games and end up well and truly in the 8 and make this discussion moot. :thumbsup
Dead right..and if not then as low as possible.. ;D
-
..so from where we are now, you would prefer to lose most games for the rest of the year rather than keep improving?
No, but as I said in my first post we really should finish 8th the way we are travelling at the moment, or do we all think we have improved by finishing 9th as we did through the 90's only to realise that we still have many gaps to fill on field??
except for the experience of getting to play in the finals the difference between finishing 8th and 9th is negligible. if we end up there abouts it will due to continued improvement and that is a good thing.
To compare to previous seasons is not relevant. Where in our recent history have we changed the list and had a coach who has transformed the way the players go about it in such a dramatic way? The only thing finishing 9th would have in common with any of those other years is the amount of places from the top we finish, while we would actually be further from the bottom.
I suppose it comes down to how you view where the club is at and where it is heading.
Personally I am happy to see the team develop and improve while the rung number we sit on at the end of the season is pretty much irrelevant.
-
We've been down long enough, no need to tank anymore, just top up
Deledio
Cotchin
Riewoldt
Vickery
Martin
Conca
Astbury
Rance
Batchelor
Edwards
Griffiths
Grimes
Grigg
Houli
That's a pretty decent junior core to build around, especially when there are a few more "senior" players not included in that list like Foley, Moore, Jackson & King plus other juniors like Helbig who looks like he'll end up as a good player. The oldest player on that list above is Lids who only turned 24 a couple of weeks ago so they have at least 7-8 years together developing.
There is 14 players listed there alone and most of them are 1st & 2nd round picks, how much tanking do we need to do?
-
We've been down long enough, no need to tank anymore, just top up
..............
There is 14 players listed there alone and most of them are 1st & 2nd round picks, how much tanking do we need to do?
None actually Inf, exactly the amount we did to build the current list.
I find it funny how many of the pro-tanking advocates have pulled stumps and declared there is no need for tanking now. There never was. And we didn't need to compromise the integrity of our club, our team and our players in getting where we are. And the coaches can look the players in the eye when they preach honesty in performance and a winning mentality. And our players can have the full confidence in their coach's efforts to develop the players and the team to the highest level of their capabilities. And no vermin supporter from any tanking club can say a word when we talk up the worth of being a Tiger.
:gotigers
-
Stole this from another thread, the difference between finishing 9th and 13th-17th is very big if you take into consideration the players that copuld be available at those picks. All I am saying is that if can't get into the top 8 I would rather finish 13th or lower to have a better shot at a potental star, rather than finish as a brides maid AGAIN (9th) and pick up another so-so player that will never eventuate to anything.
Round One
1 Team GWS
2 Team GWS
3 Team GWS
4 Club 17 on 2011 ladder
5 Team GWS
6 Club 16 on 2011 ladder
7 Team GWS
8 Club 15 on 2011 ladder
9 Team GWS
10 Club 14 on 2011 ladder
11 Team GWS
12 Club 13 on 2011 ladder
13 Team GWS
14 Club 12 on 2011 ladder
15 Team GWS
16 Club 11 on 2011 ladder
17 Club 10 on 2011 ladder
18 Club 9 on 2011 ladder
19 Club 8 on 2011 ladder
20 Club 7 on 2011 ladder
21 Club 6 on 2011 ladder
22 Club 5 on 2011 ladder
23 Club 4 on 2011 ladder
24 Club 3 on 2011 ladder
25 Club 2 on 2011 ladder
26 Club 1 on 2011 ladder
-
We've been down long enough, no need to tank anymore, just top up
Deledio
Cotchin
Riewoldt
Vickery
Martin
Conca
Astbury
Rance
Batchelor
Edwards
Griffiths
Grimes
Grigg
Houli
That's a pretty decent junior core to build around, especially when there are a few more "senior" players not included in that list like Foley, Moore, Jackson & King plus other juniors like Helbig who looks like he'll end up as a good player. The oldest player on that list above is Lids who only turned 24 a couple of weeks ago so they have at least 7-8 years together developing.
There is 14 players listed there alone and most of them are 1st & 2nd round picks, how much tanking do we need to do?
Yes, yes and agreed.
-
We've been down long enough, no need to tank anymore, just top up
..............
There is 14 players listed there alone and most of them are 1st & 2nd round picks, how much tanking do we need to do?
None actually Inf, exactly the amount we did to build the current list.
I find it funny how many of the pro-tanking advocates have pulled stumps and declared there is no need for tanking now. There never was. And we didn't need to compromise the integrity of our club, our team and our players in getting where we are. And the coaches can look the players in the eye when they preach honesty in performance and a winning mentality. And our players can have the full confidence in their coach's efforts to develop the players and the team to the highest level of their capabilities. And no vermin supporter from any tanking club can say a word when we talk up the worth of being a Tiger.
:gotigers
:clapping
something that will never dawn on some, so it seems
-
We've been down long enough, no need to tank anymore, just top up
..............
There is 14 players listed there alone and most of them are 1st & 2nd round picks, how much tanking do we need to do?
None actually Inf, exactly the amount we did to build the current list.
I find it funny how many of the pro-tanking advocates have pulled stumps and declared there is no need for tanking now. There never was. And we didn't need to compromise the integrity of our club, our team and our players in getting where we are. And the coaches can look the players in the eye when they preach honesty in performance and a winning mentality. And our players can have the full confidence in their coach's efforts to develop the players and the team to the highest level of their capabilities. And no vermin supporter from any tanking club can say a word when we talk up the worth of being a Tiger.
:gotigers
:clapping
something that will never dawn on some, so it seems
Some may have differing opinions = forum...I have never been an advocate for tanking, I despise it, but I despise finishing 9th as well.
-
Some may have differing opinions = forum...I have never been an advocate for tanking, I despise it, but I despise finishing 9th as well.
Problem with you not wanting to finish 9th WAT is you are actually (indirectly) wanting to lose.
I honestly don't think you can say I want to keep improving, I want wins and in the very next sentence say I don't want to finish 9th.
Facts are if we keep improving then then is a bloody good chance we will keep winning, keep winning and you climb the ladder, how high you go depends on how many you win.
So what if we finish 9th, 12th, 13th or even 8th as long as the club continues to put games into the kids and we keep improving and as a result we keep re-building for a brighter our long term future eg a consistent finals team.
That's what we've wanted, what we've pleaded for and finally that's what the Club's doing and if it means 9th well at least it will mean a helluva lot more this time rather than what it's meant in the past
-
Some may have differing opinions = forum...I have never been an advocate for tanking, I despise it, but I despise finishing 9th as well.
Problem with you not wanting to finish 9th WAT is you are actually (indirectly) wanting to lose.
I honestly don't think you can say I want to keep improving, I want wins and in the very next sentence say I don't want to finish 9th.
Facts are if we keep improving then then is a bloody good chance we will keep winning, keep winning and you climb the ladder, how high you go depends on how many you win.
So what if we finish 9th, 12th, 13th or even 8th as long as the club continues to put games into the kids and we keep improving and as a result we keep re-building for a brighter our long term future eg a consistent finals team.
That's what we've wanted, what we've pleaded for and finally that's what the Club's doing and if it means 9th well at least it will mean a helluva lot more this time rather than what it's meant in the past
Yes true WP and there is a reason I believe so strongly about not finishing 9th even though we are moving up the ladder. I actually believe our current team is one more draft away from securing better than average players through next years draft and trade period. I would hate to think that we are getting ahead of ourselves...yet again. While I love winning and really don't want to lose I would take the loses for the sake of one more draft and better picks. We really have no depth, we have no players coming through in the seconds, that have shown they will be anything. We have a week backline and I feel that with one more decent draft we could top up the positions where we are lacking depth.
Anyway, lets hope I am wrong.
-
Carlton finished in the 8 and picked up Watson at pick 18 who is going to be a gun KPD
The Swans picked up Hannebery at pick 30 in 2008 and he won last year's rising star
there are good kids available to all clubs at the draft, no matter where you finish
the recruiters just need to find them
-
Carlton finished in the 8 and picked up Watson at pick 18 who is going to be a gun KPD
The Swans picked up Hannebery at pick 30 in 2008 and he won last year's rising star
there are good kids available to all clubs at the draft, no matter where you finish
the recruiters just need to find them
Very true, our recruiters need to find them.
-
True, Girks.
and what pick was Jack Darling last year?
There are bargains a plenty' to the resourceful club.
-
Then there is Blair Hartley identifying the Houli, Grigg, McGlynn, Kennedy type trades
-
Yep and if we finish 9th there will be 17 picks before ours.. :whistle
Does that narrow down the odds of picking up one of the players mentioned above...um yes, one would think it does. ;)
-
Yes true WP and there is a reason I believe so strongly about not finishing 9th even though we are moving up the ladder. I actually believe our current team is one more draft away from securing better than average players through next years draft and trade period. I would hate to think that we are getting ahead of ourselves...yet again. While I love winning and really don't want to lose I would take the loses for the sake of one more draft and better picks. We really have no depth, we have no players coming through in the seconds, that have shown they will be anything. We have a week backline and I feel that with one more decent draft we could top up the positions where we are lacking depth.
Bingo! Although WAT I think we're outnumbered on this ;D. This is the last of years you want to finish 9th with only pick 18 on offer. That's effectively missing out on a normal first round pick :P. Wait till next year and go for your life up the ladder as even 9th place would still get us a top 10 pick plus we'll have our end of first round compo pick available. As you said WAT overachieving this year would be getting ahead of ourselves and hurt us in becoming genuine premiership challengers in the upcoming years.
We've been very fortunate this year with few key injuries apart from Moore so our lack of depth hasn't been exposed against the low-to-middle of the road sides.
Our spine is only settled at FF with Jack. We are hoping Griffs and Astbury in time will fill two of them but nothing is certain yet and then we've got to find a big-body full back. The ruck possie is certain either.
Our side has too many smalls who will get pushed aside by bigger bodied opponents in finals footy if we think the current group as is is complete enough to move forward with. Also we still lack class across all lines as our side falls away quickly after the top half-dozen or so players. The class is found earlier on in the draft. No coincidence our best players are high draft picks - Lids (1), Cotch (2), Martin (3) & Jack (13).
We may have won 3 in a row but we are still a long way away. Judging us by wins/losses is still misleading.
-
Bingo! Although WAT I think we're outnumbered on this ;D. This is the last of years you want to finish 9th with only pick 18 on offer. That's effectively missing out on a normal first round pick :P. Wait till next year and go for your life up the ladder as even 9th place would still get us a top 10 pick plus we'll have our end of first round compo pick available. As you said WAT overachieving this year would be getting ahead of ourselves and hurt us in becoming genuine premiership challengers in the upcoming years.
Who said it would be over achieving? Can't it just be solid improvement?
And why this fixation with finishing 9th, what happens if we finish 10th, 11th is that OK? Which would be the best ladder position to end up at?
Are you suggestion that we should be aiming "higher" in how low we finish; say 13th or lower would - that would snag us a top 15 pick wouldn't it? Is that what we should be after?
You need to take my approach, sit back, see what happens & just enjoy life
We may have won 3 in a row but we are still a long way away. Judging us by wins/losses is still misleading.
Absolutely, we still have a long way to go. That's why people speaking (perhaps even thinking) finals is frought with danger.
But we shouldn't down play the positives: it seems we are on our way and we need to keep going and keep aiming to improve.
-
We win as many games as the team possibly can. We win the close ones and we learn from the losses. If that means 9th then so be it.
(IMHO)
-
As Hardwick has said you put the processes in place and the results will look after themselves. The better you perform these processes, the better the results will be.
So, how do we stop the players from improving to avoid these positive results?
Should Hardwick be condemned for the improvement he has gained out players like Rance, King, and Nahas, because if this trend continues we will finish somewhere around 12-9?
I have trouble understanding how people want the club to mimic the Packistan cricket team at the best of times, but wanting the club to stifle the development and improvement we are currently seeing is incomprehensible.
For what? To gain 5-6 places in the draft pecking order? To avoid the illogical stigma of finishing 9th?
I'm assuming those that don't want us to win many more games for the year don't agree with Hardwicks assessment about the confidence these players are starting to gain in themselves, their team mates and the processes put in place by the coaching staff from actually winning games.?
Perhaps we should just merge with Melbourne and be done with it?
-
-sigh-not THIS argument again ::)??? Can't some of you people just enjoy the fact that we're winning and improving in quantum leaps and bounds?
WA Tiger, it's not fair to say we have no talent pushing through in the reserves.
Browne and Webberley in particular are absolutely banging on the door. Then there are the likes of Post,Astbury,O'Reilly,Contin and Derickx. And Mighty Tigers, you're a bit like someone standing on the edge of a swimming pool trying to lower yourself into the water one toe at a time. Just take the plunge.
-
Yes true WP and there is a reason I believe so strongly about not finishing 9th even though we are moving up the ladder. I actually believe our current team is one more draft away from securing better than average players through next years draft and trade period. I would hate to think that we are getting ahead of ourselves...yet again. While I love winning and really don't want to lose I would take the loses for the sake of one more draft and better picks. We really have no depth, we have no players coming through in the seconds, that have shown they will be anything. We have a week backline and I feel that with one more decent draft we could top up the positions where we are lacking depth.
Bingo! Although WAT I think we're outnumbered on this ;D. This is the last of years you want to finish 9th with only pick 18 on offer. That's effectively missing out on a normal first round pick :P. Wait till next year and go for your life up the ladder as even 9th place would still get us a top 10 pick plus we'll have our end of first round compo pick available. As you said WAT overachieving this year would be getting ahead of ourselves and hurt us in becoming genuine premiership challengers in the upcoming years.
We've been very fortunate this year with few key injuries apart from Moore so our lack of depth hasn't been exposed against the low-to-middle of the road sides.
Our spine is only settled at FF with Jack. We are hoping Griffs and Astbury in time will fill two of them but nothing is certain yet and then we've got to find a big-body full back. The ruck possie is certain either.
Our side has too many smalls who will get pushed aside by bigger bodied opponents in finals footy if we think the current group as is is complete enough to move forward with. Also we still lack class across all lines as our side falls away quickly after the top half-dozen or so players. The class is found earlier on in the draft. No coincidence our best players are high draft picks - Lids (1), Cotch (2), Martin (3) & Jack (13).
We may have won 3 in a row but we are still a long way away. Judging us by wins/losses is still misleading.
How long does it last for? I swear every year it's always "just one more year of good picks". Geelong & Collingwood certainly never stayed down to collect as many good picks as we did. Collingwood only tanked for one year, Geelong never did but got some father sons to help. In Deledio, Cotchin, Martin, Jack and even Vickery, we have far more top echelon juniors to build our side around, just in those 5 players we have almost 30% of the entire starting 18.
You say Lids, Cotchin, Martin & Jack are our best players, well Jack at 13 isn't too far away from the pick we will get this year. You have omitted Foley who was a rookie pick, even Nahas this year who if he keeps up his form was a rookie pick, look where we got players like Astbury & Bachelor who look like they will be 10 year players for us.
Get over the idea that we need more early picks, we have more than most teams ever have.
FB: Grimes Rance (Newman/Moore)
HB: Bachelor Astbury Houli
C: Deledio Martin Conca
HF: Edwards Griffiths Grigg
FF: (King) Riewoldt (Nahas)
Ru: Vickery Cotchin (Foley)
There is the 14 players I listed before with a few more senior players added in in brackets. We already have our side to develop, we just need more depth and natural turnover of the list. At this stage having all these kids play together and develop is the most important thing, not more draft picks. We may end up with players wanting to leave if we keep losing and also our players will have reduced trade value.
-
Forget this thread, these young cubs are finals bound! :gotigers
-
Much too early to be taking finals or tanking for mine. I'm just enjoying the excitment of the journey at the moment and the fact we are winning off the back of our young talent. If we were winning these games with players such as Tuck, Miller and Moore pulling us across the line - then I would be agreeing with you WA and MT. But we are not. In fact none of our older players are having any significant impact at all in comparison to our youth.
One of the largest reasons we are starting to win games is through consistency, confidence and belief. If we play around with this just to ensure we finish further down the ladder then we may never get the players we have back on the tracks again much like what happened to any talent we have had int he past.
Consistency - We are finally starting to gain a consistent structure and line up. Players are learning how to play with each other and learn each others strengths, weaknesses and predicatable actions. A stable linup comes when coaches begin to see individual improvement which has obviously occured. While there will always be minor changes, having a consistent core of players shows that the coaches believe in the players they have and feel they finally have the players to begin to climb.
Confidence - This is confidence in themselves after finally developing their personal games through good coaching and education, confidence in each other through playing consistently with each other and knowing what each other is likely to do and confidence with the game plan where there is less indecision and more understanding of their role and the role of their team mates in any situation.
Belief - working towards a goal. Knowing that if the team stays together and works for each other they can beat anyone. Belief in each other and belief that the club is building towards inevitable success.
I think on the back of all this it would be flawed logic to try and derail our climb up the ladder. It would negatively effect out current players that are building towards something together and who any future young draftee would learn from and compliment.
Stripes
-
Sorry just to add to above....
With the new rules - 1) GWS trading 16 years & 2) Free Trading - we need currency. We can achieve the same results by trading away quality depth players for the 16 year stars plus later filling holes with Free Trading where we gain 25+ year old proven stars as we would finishing down the bottom come draft time. In fact we may even do better but if we have no players the GWS wish to trade for then we are missing out on a golden opportunity.
In addition you mentioned MT that we have too may small players that are pushed under the ball. Well I humbly disagree ;D I think that the ne sub rule has opened up the game for these smaller bodied quicker types. I think smaller players with pace and endurance are much more important in the second half of games this year and is one of the main reasons we have won the last three games. Of course you need players to win the ball or bring it to ground for these types but players of the ilk of Nahas, King and Edwards are relishing the new freedom they have gained.
-
At the moment it's just fun going to the footy at last.
-
Agonising over draft picks and where outside the finals it is best to finish is what supporters of sh¡t clubs do ;D
-
Yes true WP and there is a reason I believe so strongly about not finishing 9th even though we are moving up the ladder. I actually believe our current team is one more draft away from securing better than average players through next years draft and trade period. I would hate to think that we are getting ahead of ourselves...yet again. While I love winning and really don't want to lose I would take the loses for the sake of one more draft and better picks. We really have no depth, we have no players coming through in the seconds, that have shown they will be anything. We have a week backline and I feel that with one more decent draft we could top up the positions where we are lacking depth.
Bingo! Although WAT I think we're outnumbered on this ;D. This is the last of years you want to finish 9th with only pick 18 on offer. That's effectively missing out on a normal first round pick :P. Wait till next year and go for your life up the ladder as even 9th place would still get us a top 10 pick plus we'll have our end of first round compo pick available. As you said WAT overachieving this year would be getting ahead of ourselves and hurt us in becoming genuine premiership challengers in the upcoming years.
We've been very fortunate this year with few key injuries apart from Moore so our lack of depth hasn't been exposed against the low-to-middle of the road sides.
Our spine is only settled at FF with Jack. We are hoping Griffs and Astbury in time will fill two of them but nothing is certain yet and then we've got to find a big-body full back. The ruck possie is certain either.
Our side has too many smalls who will get pushed aside by bigger bodied opponents in finals footy if we think the current group as is is complete enough to move forward with. Also we still lack class across all lines as our side falls away quickly after the top half-dozen or so players. The class is found earlier on in the draft. No coincidence our best players are high draft picks - Lids (1), Cotch (2), Martin (3) & Jack (13).
We may have won 3 in a row but we are still a long way away. Judging us by wins/losses is still misleading.
Thats ok MT I am used to being outnumbered.. :thumbsup..Your post is exactly what I am saying in a nutshell. :clapping
-
At the moment it's just fun going to the footy at last.
Ill 2nd that :thumbsup
And leave the debating to the more experienced
-
There are some really good points within the posts regarding this thread.
I still feel, the bottom line, we are one more draft away from being in a position to select the players that will carry us into a GF and finishing 9th could be the difference between great and average players. 1-3 Really god draft picked players, KPP, backmen, would give us that little bit more depth. I don't think players like Post, Hicks and a few others mentioned in our the seconds will amount to much and they are certainly not there at the moment. Should we be affected by a few injuries we are in trouble...But hey I hope they all work out.
-
We win as many games as the team possibly can. We win the close ones and we learn from the losses. If that means 9th then so be it.
(IMHO)
Best opinion so far O. :thumbsup
-
I think the time for "tanking" is well and truly over.
I agree with the majority - follow the process and the results will look after themselves.
Will we make the finals - i dont think so, but I hope so.
Have we improved this year - you betcha..we have improved out of sight.
As CUB said - it is fun going to the football this year. Out of 7 games the tiges have been good value for money in 5 of them plus a quarter against the pies. Only Hawks was a demoralising loss where we didnt win a quarter. We led carlton until about the 18 min mark of the final quarter and led st kilda with 1.45 to play (about the 33 min mark) in the final quarter. You gotta be happy with that.
Finishing 12th or 14th will still not get you a top 10 pick so who cares where we finish.
Just win games and enjoy the ride!!
-
We win as many games as the team possibly can. We win the close ones and we learn from the losses. If that means 9th then so be it.
(IMHO)
Best opinion so far O. :thumbsup
Hey it's what I've been trying to say ;D
You need to take my approach, sit back, see what happens & just enjoy life
:thumbsup :gotigers
-
We win as many games as the team possibly can. We win the close ones and we learn from the losses. If that means 9th then so be it.
(IMHO)
Best opinion so far O and WP. :thumbsup
Hey it's what I've been trying to say ;D
You need to take my approach, sit back, see what happens & just enjoy life
:thumbsup :gotigers
Ok then, edited for accuracy! :P
-
Ok then, edited for accuracy! :P
:clapping :angel: Argghhhhhhhh thanks smokey :cheers
-
I am still a bit confused by some peoples comments regarding draft picks. Most of the people making comments about finishing 9th being ok and draft picks not being relevant are the same people that would rather have had their legs cut off last year than trade away draft picks that will be of the same value if we finish 9th this year.
To those people I have to ask, from the draft period last year to now,you really believe we have progressed so much regarding our draft picks that the draft pick/s won't matter against the players we could get if we finished lower than 9th??? Taking into account all round picks.
Yes enjoy the wins and where we are NOW, but remember the future too.
-
It does not matter mate.
Not much point tanking. We should have the core of our list build between 04-11. Anything else now is also the cherry on top.
Look forward to using the tambling pick, Our international rookies and whatever draft picks we get but really, if we don't have the majority in place now we are in trouble.
Finishing ninth would be a shocker to be honest and hurt us in the long run. We'd be lucky to get two picks in the top 50 with GWS hogging the draft and our first pick would be in the late teens. Our list is nowhere complete yet structurally (Jack is the only reliable KPP along our spine) to start pushing up the ladder (as much as watching us win is enjoyable right now). We really need another decent dip in the draft as we did last year to add more class to our list and fill holes/deficiencies we still have so in time when we do push into the top 8 we can match it with the top sides if not better them and push for top 4 if not top 2 in say 3 years time when our list matures. At the start of the year I was hoping for say a 14th finish (= about 8 wins) and another top 10 first pick; not ninth and pick 18 :P.
1. GWS
2. GWS
3. GWS
4. Bris
5. GWS
6. Port
7. GWS
8. North
9. GWS
10. St K
11. GWS
12. GC
13. GWS
14. Adel
15. GWS
16. WB
17. Eagles
18. Richmond
...
26. Coll
27. Bris (Compensation pick from last year)
28. Bris (Priority pick)
29. Port (Priority pick?)
* Chuck in here a whole bunch of picks created out of thin air by GWS ontrading non-AFL players other clubs want as GC did last year.
GWS
Bris
Port
North
St K
GC
Adel
WB
Eagles
Richmond ...... most likely a pick in the 40s.
-
if we came 14th we
get pick #3 then there would be merit in tanking but do to gws we should just Mae due with 16 or 25 or whatever the case may be.
I am still a bit confused by some peoples comments regarding draft picks. Most of the people making comments about finishing 9th being ok and draft picks not being relevant are the same people that would rather have had their legs cut off last year than trade away draft picks that will be of the same value if we finish 9th this year.
To those people I have to ask, from the draft period last year to now,you really believe we have progressed so much regarding our draft picks that the draft pick/s won't matter against the players we could get if we finished lower than 9th??? Taking into account all round picks.
Yes enjoy the wins and where we are NOW, but remember the future too.
-
if we came 14th we
get pick #3 then there would be merit in tanking but do to gws we should just Mae due with 16 or 25 or whatever the case may be.
I am still a bit confused by some peoples comments regarding draft picks. Most of the people making comments about finishing 9th being ok and draft picks not being relevant are the same people that would rather have had their legs cut off last year than trade away draft picks that will be of the same value if we finish 9th this year.
To those people I have to ask, from the draft period last year to now,you really believe we have progressed so much regarding our draft picks that the draft pick/s won't matter against the players we could get if we finished lower than 9th??? Taking into account all round picks.
Yes enjoy the wins and where we are NOW, but remember the future too.
So there we go, if we finish 9th we don't play finals and we get pick 18, if we finish 14th we don't play finals and we get pick 3...I know where I would rather finish.
If we finish 8th we play finals and they take the experience of a final and the confidence into next year. Finish 9th and greater expectations will be on the team to make the 8 with that comes greater pressure.
If we dont play finals I know where I wan't to finish.. :thumbsup
-
But we won't get Pick 3 for finishing 14th, we'd get Pick 10
-
But we won't get Pick 3 for finishing 14th, we'd get Pick 10
Yeah good pick up Inf.. :-[..B.E what have you done to me.. :thumbsup
Well still better than 18... :lol
-
But we won't get Pick 3 for finishing 14th, we'd get Pick 10
Yeah good pick up Inf.. :-[..B.E what have you done to me.. :thumbsup
Well still better than 18... :lol
in the past if we come 16th pick one / 15th pick two etc...
This time round due to the new clubs it doesn't make much difference. It's no worth t
tanking to upgrade our first pick from pick 16 to pick 10. IMO.
-
I am still a bit confused by some peoples comments regarding draft picks. Most of the people making comments about finishing 9th being ok and draft picks not being relevant are the same people that would rather have had their legs cut off last year than trade away draft picks that will be of the same value if we finish 9th this year.
Actually, a fair argument.
Regarding 8th v 9th.
As i've already said, to me the only difference is the experience of playing in a final. The reaity is that sides that finish 8th generally make up the numbers, but it would be good to have a bit of interest in September for once.
It could also be argued that to just miss out would give this young team more incentive for the following year. They would have a belief that they are there abouts but the realisation they still need to improve.
Either way, i dont really care. To finish somewhere around 8-11 would be the result of continued improvement and to me that is the most important thing, rather than what number we actually finish on the ladder. There has not been one game since Dimma took over where the opposition has taken us lightly or underestimated us. There are no more cheap wins - each and every one is earned.
The upward curve is starting to take shape. somewhere along the line it may plateau, or even take a drop, but i also believe that somewhere along the line there will be a steep improvement that makes the other clubs really start to sit up and take notice.
whether that happens this year or next is anyone guess, but it seems that hardwick is expecting us to improve enough this year to actually start pushing the top sides.
surely if we start to push sides like collonwoood that can only be a good thing?
As others have said, and Benny said at the start of last year, lets just enjoy the ride. :gotigers
Just another stir about Draft picks. Many people believe that reece conca would have lasted until late in the first round and some people even said that we could have traded down and still got him. ( Jackson didnt feel this way though).
To me, with the concessions available to wasted sydney it is not that important as generally the standouts are in the first 2-4 picks and after that it seems to even out and the order is mostly determined by individual clubs' assessments and needs. It never has, nor will it ever, work out the order of draft picks relates to the order of how good the players turn out to be. The only argument with any merit i have seen put forward against this is that the earlier your pick the more likely you are to get your first choice.
The negatives associated with deliberately setting out to achieve this far outweigh the positives, but I'm sure by now most realise i feel this way :P.
Normally if we finish near the bottom I simply take consolation in the earlier draft picks, but if that was to happen this year it would not be much consolation as it means the wheels have fallen off, for whatever reason.
-
Yep fair enough Al, well summed up on all fronts.
-
Fair point infamy.
People saying we lack ruck / kpp holes on the list
but you can only fit 2 ruckman at rfc and two a coburg
Along with 2 or 3 talls in the forward ad backline.
Yes true WP and there is a reason I believe so strongly about not finishing 9th even though we are moving up the ladder. I actually believe our current team is one more draft away from securing better than average players through next years draft and trade period. I would hate to think that we are getting ahead of ourselves...yet again. While I love winning and really don't want to lose I would take the loses for the sake of one more draft and better picks. We really have no depth, we have no players coming through in the seconds, that have shown they will be anything. We have a week backline and I feel that with one more decent draft we could top up the positions where we are lacking depth.
Bingo! Although WAT I think we're outnumbered on this ;D. This is the last of years you want to finish 9th with only pick 18 on offer. That's effectively missing out on a normal first round pick :P. Wait till next year and go for your life up the ladder as even 9th place would still get us a top 10 pick plus we'll have our end of first round compo pick available. As you said WAT overachieving this year would be getting ahead of ourselves and hurt us in becoming genuine premiership challengers in the upcoming years.
We've been very fortunate this year with few key injuries apart from Moore so our lack of depth hasn't been exposed against the low-to-middle of the road sides.
Our spine is only settled at FF with Jack. We are hoping Griffs and Astbury in time will fill two of them but nothing is certain yet and then we've got to find a big-body full back. The ruck possie is certain either.
Our side has too many smalls who will get pushed aside by bigger bodied opponents in finals footy if we think the current group as is is complete enough to move forward with. Also we still lack class across all lines as our side falls away quickly after the top half-dozen or so players. The class is found earlier on in the draft. No coincidence our best players are high draft picks - Lids (1), Cotch (2), Martin (3) & Jack (13).
We may have won 3 in a row but we are still a long way away. Judging us by wins/losses is still misleading.
How long does it last for? I swear every year it's always "just one more year of good picks". Geelong & Collingwood certainly never stayed down to collect as many good picks as we did. Collingwood only tanked for one year, Geelong never did but got some father sons to help. In Deledio, Cotchin, Martin, Jack and even Vickery, we have far more top echelon juniors to build our side around, just in those 5 players we have almost 30% of the entire starting 18.
You say Lids, Cotchin, Martin & Jack are our best players, well Jack at 13 isn't too far away from the pick we will get this year. You have omitted Foley who was a rookie pick, even Nahas this year who if he keeps up his form was a rookie pick, look where we got players like Astbury & Bachelor who look like they will be 10 year players for us.
Get over the idea that we need more early picks, we have more than most teams ever have.
FB: Grimes Rance (Newman/Moore)
HB: Bachelor Astbury Houli
C: Deledio Martin Conca
HF: Edwards Griffiths Grigg
FF: (King) Riewoldt (Nahas)
Ru: Vickery Cotchin (Foley)
There is the 14 players I listed before with a few more senior players added in in brackets. We already have our side to develop, we just need more depth and natural turnover of the list. At this stage having all these kids play together and develop is the most important thing, not more draft picks. We may end up with players wanting to leave if we keep losing and also our players will have reduced trade value.
-
How long does it last for? I swear every year it's always "just one more year of good picks". Geelong & Collingwood certainly never stayed down to collect as many good picks as we did. Collingwood only tanked for one year, Geelong never did but got some father sons to help.
In Deledio, Cotchin, Martin, Jack and even Vickery, we have far more top echelon juniors to build our side around, just in those 5 players we have almost 30% of the entire starting 18.
You say Lids, Cotchin, Martin & Jack are our best players, well Jack at 13 isn't too far away from the pick we will get this year. You have omitted Foley who was a rookie pick, even Nahas this year who if he keeps up his form was a rookie pick, look where we got players like Astbury & Bachelor who look like they will be 10 year players for us.
Sorry Infamy, I forgot to reply to your question.
Geelong were down for Thompson's 2nd - 4th years (2001-2003) and that was coming off a poor 1999 the year before Thompson took over. Their rebuild began in the 1999 draft and that's after already having Harley, Scarlett and Milburn on their list (the bulk of their future defensive unit). Then they hit the jackpot again in the 2001 superdraft. Add a couple of gun father-sons and that group got them to the finals in 2004-5 (5-6 years after their rebuild started). Then they had a poor 2006 which got them Selwood at pick 7. So to a finals standard side they added another gun which turned them into superside. The Pies have undergone two rebuilds under Malthouse. The first starting in 1999 in the year before Mick arrived. 4 years later they were playing back-to-back GFs. So their next rebuild was built around the younger survivors of those GF losses. So they dipped down 2004-5 and even in 2006 they had a top 10 pick (two top 10 picks after trading Tarrant). Premiership sides are built in waves until you get the quality list with depth you need. Hawthorn was the same - rebuild began 1999-2002 and then they hit up again in 2004-5.
Okay based on this thread a majority of posters believe our list is structurally sound at the core and just needs tickering through natural evolution in the upcoming years and drafts (ie. irrespective of where we finish on the ladder we'll find what we need). For mine I disagree as I believe we still have significant crucial pieces missing and believe we still need to access as close to the top end of the draft to add more quality and class we still require. Our top 6 is classy but we fall away badly in quality after that. I would like us to have are bare minimum classy top 12. Having a handful at the top and then the rest team of deficient triers isn't enough to build a premiership team.
How long does needing good picks last for? Well IMO this year was the last given the compromised draft (I would've kept our wins in 2009-10 to 4 each as well to gain priority picks and accelerate our rebuild but that opportunity has gone). If we finish 9th-10th in 2012 then we would still get another top 10 pick so no big deal however this year finishing mid-ladder equates to pick 18. In a normal uncompromised draft this would be equivalent to not having a first round pick. We are in nowhere a position list-wise to miss out on first round picks. You can say pick 18 isn't far away from pick 13 but the reality is if we had pick 18 in 2006 instead of 13 we would've missed out on any of chance of gaining Jack. Sure there are still decent players available later in the draft but they are few and far between. Remember it's just not the first pick but the second, third, etc picks are much later as well. It's all about increasing your chances and access to as many of the best youngsters in the country.
Get over the idea that we need more early picks, we have more than most teams ever have.
FB: Grimes Rance (Newman/Moore)
HB: Bachelor Astbury Houli
C: Deledio Martin Conca
HF: Edwards Griffiths Grigg
FF: (King) Riewoldt (Nahas)
Ru: Vickery Cotchin (Foley)
There is the 14 players I listed before with a few more senior players added in in brackets. We already have our side to develop, we just need more depth and natural turnover of the list. At this stage having all these kids play together and develop is the most important thing, not more draft picks. We may end up with players wanting to leave if we keep losing and also our players will have reduced trade value.
For mine we still have far too many small players for their position (most who have skill deficiencies anyway) who need to be replaced. Rance isn't a full back for instance let alone a potential A-grade one (we don't have one our current list). Edwards is still a doubtful one for mine. Structurally our side is still deficient in critical positions; not just lacking depth and maturity. Bookends still need major surgery - tall backs and quality ground level forwards need to be found from outside the current list. Fingers crossed Griffiths shoulders stand up to AFL footy btw. The midfield is still lacking another quality player or two for mine as well but yes that can be just a depth issue. Hopefully Ty does fill out and become the quality ruckman we need in time.
FB: Grimes* ? ?
HB: Bachelor Astbury* Houli
C: Deledio Martin Conca
HF: ? Griffiths* Grigg
FF: ? Riewoldt ?
Ru: Vickery Cotchin (Foley)
Int: ? ? ? ?
-
It does not matter mate.
Not much point tanking. We should have the core of our list build between 04-11. Anything else now is also the cherry on top.
Look forward to using the tambling pick, Our international rookies and whatever draft picks we get but really, if we don't have the majority in place now we are in trouble.
Should have yes over those 7 years but we spent 04-08 flip-flopping between wanting to rebuild and wanting to play finals. Lids is the only quality player from the 04-05 drafts. We lacked picks in 07-08. We have only started rebuilding heavily and consistently since the 09 draft and even then we didn't smartly go for priority picks to accelerate our rebuild. We are not in trouble provided we don't do something stupid and finish mid-ladder this year but we still have a long way to go rebuilding our list as yesterday showed. The job is only half done. We are nowhere near the cherry on top stage. Collingwood adding Jolly and Ball to a top 4 side last year or Geelong adding Selwood and then Harry Taylor is the cherry on top stage.
-
Bingo! Although WAT I think we're outnumbered on this ;D. This is the last of years you want to finish 9th with only pick 18 on offer. That's effectively missing out on a normal first round pick :P. Wait till next year and go for your life up the ladder as even 9th place would still get us a top 10 pick plus we'll have our end of first round compo pick available. As you said WAT overachieving this year would be getting ahead of ourselves and hurt us in becoming genuine premiership challengers in the upcoming years.
Who said it would be over achieving? Can't it just be solid improvement?
And why this fixation with finishing 9th, what happens if we finish 10th, 11th is that OK? Which would be the best ladder position to end up at?
Are you suggestion that we should be aiming "higher" in how low we finish; say 13th or lower would - that would snag us a top 15 pick wouldn't it? Is that what we should be after?
You need to take my approach, sit back, see what happens & just enjoy life
We may have won 3 in a row but we are still a long way away. Judging us by wins/losses is still misleading.
Absolutely, we still have a long way to go. That's why people speaking (perhaps even thinking) finals is frought with danger.
But we shouldn't down play the positives: it seems we are on our way and we need to keep going and keep aiming to improve.
Sure WP there are plenty positives to talk about. We're a young side coming from a long way back so even in losing there are positives to talk about.
I'm just arguing that the current draft system will penalise a side like ours that is playing to its maximum potential yet that maximum will at best get us to 9th-11th spot. It's not as though we have a stack of injuries or are like a Geelong 2006 underperforming so next year with a full list playing at its best we kick on again higher up the ladder. Our list doesn't yet have the depth of talent outside the senior side to push through and lift us up the ladder by its own. That's what I meant by overachieving if we finish 9th. There's little scope for significant improvement the following year outside the existing list if we don't have another early-ish dip into another draft at least. Ending up with only say pick 18 as our first pick and then our 2nd pick in the 40s and 3rd pick in the 60s will stall our progress. We've been there before. It's not fair but with the current draft system if you're not going for top 4 and seriously challenge you might as well finish bottom 4 and use the system to your club's advantage. Seeing more and more elite young talent running around in a Richmond jumper makes footy life more enjoyable ;). I want more! :thumbsup
And Mighty Tigers, you're a bit like someone standing on the edge of a swimming pool trying to lower yourself into the water one toe at a time. Just take the plunge.
With the draft system the way it is, that pool has a sesspit around the middle section of it. From past experience you avoid going anywhere near the middle otherwise you end up in the proverbial :yep. North took the plunge into 9th last year and it's really paid off for them this year :wallywink.
-
Mighty Tigers, it's almost as if you were waiting for yesterday's result to say,
" I told you so". FWIW, I think the ONLY glaring holes on our list are our rucks and our key defensive stocks. Pretty big holes I admit. But they don't have to be filled with top end draft picks. Collingwood fixed their ruck problems by taking Jolly with which pick??? A decent CHB can be found with a mid range pick. We just have to scour the land for a taller, stronger smarter option than McGuane. You could throw a dart into a crowd and hit one of those. We have our fair share of high draft picks.It's time to start making our move, not lingering around the bottom of the ladder like biafrans at a banquet.
-
First and foremost
nahas tripod is very stiff to be left out if your blueprint of thr future side.
Going at 25+ touches and found goals
How long does it last for? I swear every year it's always "just one more year of good picks". Geelong & Collingwood certainly never stayed down to collect as many good picks as we did. Collingwood only tanked for one year, Geelong never did but got some father sons to help.
In Deledio, Cotchin, Martin, Jack and even Vickery, we have far more top echelon juniors to build our side around, just in those 5 players we have almost 30% of the entire starting 18.
You say Lids, Cotchin, Martin & Jack are our best players, well Jack at 13 isn't too far away from the pick we will get this year. You have omitted Foley who was a rookie pick, even Nahas this year who if he keeps up his form was a rookie pick, look where we got players like Astbury & Bachelor who look like they will be 10 year players for us.
Sorry Infamy, I forgot to reply to your question.
Geelong were down for Thompson's 2nd - 4th years (2001-2003) and that was coming off a poor 1999 the year before Thompson took over. Their rebuild began in the 1999 draft and that's after already having Harley, Scarlett and Milburn on their list (the bulk of their future defensive unit). Then they hit the jackpot again in the 2001 superdraft. Add a couple of gun father-sons and that group got them to the finals in 2004-5 (5-6 years after their rebuild started). Then they had a poor 2006 which got them Selwood at pick 7. So to a finals standard side they added another gun which turned them into superside. The Pies have undergone two rebuilds under Malthouse. The first starting in 1999 in the year before Mick arrived. 4 years later they were playing back-to-back GFs. So their next rebuild was built around the younger survivors of those GF losses. So they dipped down 2004-5 and even in 2006 they had a top 10 pick (two top 10 picks after trading Tarrant). Premiership sides are built in waves until you get the quality list with depth you need. Hawthorn was the same - rebuild began 1999-2002 and then they hit up again in 2004-5.
Okay based on this thread a majority of posters believe our list is structurally sound at the core and just needs tickering through natural evolution in the upcoming years and drafts (ie. irrespective of where we finish on the ladder we'll find what we need). For mine I disagree as I believe we still have significant crucial pieces missing and believe we still need to access as close to the top end of the draft to add more quality and class we still require. Our top 6 is classy but we fall away badly in quality after that. I would like us to have are bare minimum classy top 12. Having a handful at the top and then the rest team of deficient triers isn't enough to build a premiership team.
How long does needing good picks last for? Well IMO this year was the last given the compromised draft (I would've kept our wins in 2009-10 to 4 each as well to gain priority picks and accelerate our rebuild but that opportunity has gone). If we finish 9th-10th in 2012 then we would still get another top 10 pick so no big deal however this year finishing mid-ladder equates to pick 18. In a normal uncompromised draft this would be equivalent to not having a first round pick. We are in nowhere a position list-wise to miss out on first round picks. You can say pick 18 isn't far away from pick 13 but the reality is if we had pick 18 in 2006 instead of 13 we would've missed out on any of chance of gaining Jack. Sure there are still decent players available later in the draft but they are few and far between. Remember it's just not the first pick but the second, third, etc picks are much later as well. It's all about increasing your chances and access to as many of the best youngsters in the country.
Get over the idea that we need more early picks, we have more than most teams ever have.
FB: Grimes Rance (Newman/Moore)
HB: Bachelor Astbury Houli
C: Deledio Martin Conca
HF: Edwards Griffiths Grigg
FF: (King) Riewoldt (Nahas)
Ru: Vickery Cotchin (Foley)
There is the 14 players I listed before with a few more senior players added in in brackets. We already have our side to develop, we just need more depth and natural turnover of the list. At this stage having all these kids play together and develop is the most important thing, not more draft picks. We may end up with players wanting to leave if we keep losing and also our players will have reduced trade value.
For mine we still have far too many small players for their position (most who have skill deficiencies anyway) who need to be replaced. Rance isn't a full back for instance let alone a potential A-grade one (we don't have one our current list). Edwards is still a doubtful one for mine. Structurally our side is still deficient in critical positions; not just lacking depth and maturity. Bookends still need major surgery - tall backs and quality ground level forwards need to be found from outside the current list. Fingers crossed Griffiths shoulders stand up to AFL footy btw. The midfield is still lacking another quality player or two for mine as well but yes that can be just a depth issue. Hopefully Ty does fill out and become the quality ruckman we need in time.
FB: Grimes* ? ?
HB: Bachelor Astbury* Houli
C: Deledio Martin Conca
HF: ? Griffiths* Grigg
FF: ? Riewoldt ?
Ru: Vickery Cotchin (Foley)
Int: ? ? ? ?
-
After this rubbish against Port I would rather finish last, we are clearly not there and we need the best draft picks we can get.
-
Ninth is better than what we've been finishing the last couple of years :-\
-
Ninth is better than what we've been finishing the last couple of years :-\
Not if we continue to dish this crap up.
-
Ninth is better than what we've been finishing the last couple of years :-\
Not if we continue to dish this crap up.
Guess what? We'll still be ninth!
-
Mighty Tigers, it's almost as if you were waiting for yesterday's result to say,
" I told you so". FWIW, I think the ONLY glaring holes on our list are our rucks and our key defensive stocks. Pretty big holes I admit. But they don't have to be filled with top end draft picks. Collingwood fixed their ruck problems by taking Jolly with which pick??? A decent CHB can be found with a mid range pick. We just have to scour the land for a taller, stronger smarter option than McGuane. You could throw a dart into a crowd and hit one of those. We have our fair share of high draft picks.It's time to start making our move, not lingering around the bottom of the ladder like biafrans at a banquet.
It wasn't meant to be a told you so post RR. Just a post about where we really are. Up one week and down the next and still with too many players whose skills aren't up to it and a side with still too many holes that needs additional class added. Finishing mid-ladder would/will disadvantage us. That's just the way the stupid draft system works. It penalises sides like ours if we finish outside the bottom 5 which is what we really are at. We got a touch ahead of ourselves.
-
And I still reckon we would have won easily tonight if the game had been at the G or Emptyhead stadium which it should have been seeing how it was a HOME GAME and all.
The other thing we should have done of course was kept Post in the backline to cover Grimes' loss, booted that spud McGuane out of the team for good and replaced him with Gourdis or Astbury.
In short, nobody's getting ahead of anything. Come on MT,you saw the Burgers on TV today. There are better options already on our list, if we would just stop persisting with proven hacks.
-
Regardless we will not finish 9th this year and that opinion of mine is not based on tonights result.
I still think we will win no more than 10 games and no less than 8.
Anything less would be a disappointment anything more will be a tick in terms of development.
We are too inconsistent. If we drop a game like this next year then we have every right to be filthy on the coach and the players and start asking questions. 6 weeks ago after the Collingwood game most optimists would have had us at 4-5-1 with little chance of playing finals. Nothing has changed in 6 weeks except we have been on an exciting ride that derailed tonight. Keep the faith boys I've had a few hours to calm down. Next year is the drought breaking finals year.10th or 11th is where we sit this year.
-
And I still reckon we would have won easily tonight if the game had been at the G or Emptyhead stadium which it should have been seeing how it was a HOME GAME and all.
The other thing we should have done of course was kept Post in the backline to cover Grimes' loss, booted that spud McGuane out of the team for good and replaced him with Gourdis or Astbury.
In short, nobody's getting ahead of anything. Come on MT,you saw the Burgers on TV today. There are better options already on our list, if we would just stop persisting with proven hacks.
I still believe our backline stocks are weak and uncertain. Goo isn't up to it and Grimes is out for 3 months with a bad hammy which is concerning. Astbury may become one of the answers to our key defensive posts but right now he isn't ready. He's more suited to a 3rd tall role. I'm not a fan of McGaune as a long-term solution but we are thin on the ground. Post is another option to come in but he seems to be playing more forward of the ball at Coburg and only being pushed back if the Burgers are under seige.
If we want to replace a proven spud then Miller should go.
-
Bring on 11th - 14th for mine, then start again next year...If people think we are going places this year and setting up the foundations for the future....Forget it, we are still 1 more draft away from our future......
WAKE UP people, we think we are better than we are!!!!!!!
-
:thumbsup
-
Bring on 11th - 14th for mine, then start again next year...If people think we are going places this year and setting up the foundations for the future....Forget it, we are still 1 more draft away from our future......
WAKE UP people, we think we are better than we are!!!!!!!
Thats abit harsh. I think we are starting to set up a foundation for long term success. We have a game plan coming together. Alot of players getting opportunity and games under there belts. But I agree we need to keep delisting and drafting.
-
Ninth is better than what we've been finishing the last couple of years :-\
Ninth is garbage :banghead
-
agreed everything but 1st is garbage. Richmond needs a winners mentality.
-
Bring on 11th - 14th for mine, then start again next year...If people think we are going places this year and setting up the foundations for the future....Forget it, we are still 1 more draft away from our future......
WAKE UP people, we think we are better than we are!!!!!!!
No WAT, we are exactly what many of us think we are. We aren't what the emotion-driven knee jerk, Chicken Little supporters think we are.
-
Well we're ninth going into the bye and will probably remain ninth :-\ heading into the Swans game given of the teams that could jump above us next week St Kilda plays Collingwood and Melbourne plays Essendon.
-
Bring on 11th - 14th for mine, then start again next year...If people think we are going places this year and setting up the foundations for the future....Forget it, we are still 1 more draft away from our future......
WAKE UP people, we think we are better than we are!!!!!!!
WAT - you thought we'd win this game by 10+ goals and I had a fear that what happened was going to happen
So looking back I think it is fair to say I knew where we were :rollin
I reckon (and don't take this the wrong way) you and so many others are angry because you and a number of others thought we were better than what we are after we bet the Bombers and we hit a bump last night called reality :thumbsup
-
I reckon (and don't take this the wrong way) you and so many others are angry because you and a number of others thought we were better than what we are after we bet the Bombers and we hit a bump last night called reality :thumbsup
We're better than Port in many eyes. That's the disappointment for me.
-
I reckon (and don't take this the wrong way) you and so many others are angry because you and a number of others thought we were better than what we are after we bet the Bombers and we hit a bump last night called reality :thumbsup
We're better than Port in many eyes. That's the disappointment for me.
We are better than Port full stop Froars, we just didn't beat them last night. Grant Thomas summed it up perfectly a few years back now when he famously declared after we had beaten his developing team at Etihad "the best team out there didn't win today". Well last night, the best team on the night won but the best team of the two certainly didn't.
-
Bring on 11th - 14th for mine, then start again next year...If people think we are going places this year and setting up the foundations for the future....Forget it, we are still 1 more draft away from our future......
WAKE UP people, we think we are better than we are!!!!!!!
Keep dishing up performances like that and we will finish around 14.
Keep dishing up performances like against essendon we will end up around 9th.
i know what I'd prefer to see happen.
-
Bring on 11th - 14th for mine, then start again next year...If people think we are going places this year and setting up the foundations for the future....Forget it, we are still 1 more draft away from our future......
WAKE UP people, we think we are better than we are!!!!!!!
Keep dishing up performances like that and we will finish around 14.
Keep dishing up performances like against essendon we will end up around 9th.
i know what I'd prefer to see happen.
14th ;D
-
My AFL ladder prediction thing from afl.com had us 9th. :shh
-
Tiger fans won't let the same old song get them down
Will Brodie
June 3, 2011
(http://images.smh.com.au/2011/06/01/2400070/art-wbAFLtigesccard-420x0.jpg)
Richmond was considered crazy when it proposed 75,000 members last year, but events this year show the strength of support for the Tigers. Photo: Jo Gay
Long suffering Richmond fans are cock-a-hoop after their team's spirited showing in 2011. The perennial battlers have excited frenzied support by winning four of their last six matches.
Their team is the most committed in the AFL, says pundit Robert Walls, praising the "effort, drive and will" of its players, and coach Damien Hardwick.
The Tigers are replete with cult figures, from battler rogue-turned forward line goalsneak Jake King to unpolished, but wildly courageous key position utility Alex Rance.
Richmond also possesses a classy elite - with brilliant youngsters Trent Cotchin and Dustin Martin heading an aggressive skilful midfield, and superstar jack-in-the-box Jack Riewoldt lighting up the forward line.
And the Tigers fans, starved of succes for decades, have been roaring. An average of 44,430 fans had attended Richmond games this year before Saturday night's match in Darwin, the best figure since 1998. Membership is at record levels - 47,160 have signed up in 2011, compared to last year's previous high mark of 46,202.
The upset loss to Port Adelaide in the distant Northern Territory, televised only on Pay TV, will do little to dampen the roar of the Richmond army.
Perhaps the stirring of the dormant Tiger beast has made some rival fans jittery. Or some scarred Tiger pessimists want to dampen expectations.
For the infamous spectre of Richmond finishing ninth is again being raised.
The song "We Finished Ninth Again", sung to the tune of the beloved official Richmond theme song, is making the cyberpsace rounds.
Penned by Coodabeen Champions chief minstrel Greg Champion, it was immortalised on CD in 2007.
Richmond has finished ninth six times in the seventeen completed seasons since the inception of the final eight, in 1994, 1996, 1998, 2000, 2006 and 2008. The only other team to do so more than one is Hawthorn - in 1999, 2003 and 2009.
Richmond has made the finals twice since 1994, and were met by massive crowds and hysterical scenes after wins over Essendon in 1995 and Carlton in 2001.
Listen to the offending ditty here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBD49n36F9k
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/tiger-fans-wont-let-the-same-old-song-get-them-down-20110527-1f7ld.html#ixzz1OAlBicP5
-
stuff you Greg Champion, you're about as funny as twisted balls.
-
eff you Greg Champion, you're about as funny as twisted balls.
:lol
He looks like kiddy theiver too.
-
Bring on 11th - 14th for mine, then start again next year...If people think we are going places this year and setting up the foundations for the future....Forget it, we are still 1 more draft away from our future......
WAKE UP people, we think we are better than we are!!!!!!!
No WAT, we are exactly what many of us think we are. We aren't what the emotion-driven knee jerk, Chicken Little supporters think we are.
I'm not sure that is what people think. Finishing ninth is as much a dreading of history repeating itself than it is a desire to tank.
I can't stand the thought of finishing 9th again. It is just that freaking number on the ladder that I'm frankly jack of.
It doesn't mean I'll assume were peaking again! Bring on 10th or 8th!
-
I don't believe we are good enough yet to make the finals and have advocated we avoid mid-ladder like the plague and target the draft one more time to much objection ;D. However ignoring that it appears after 10 rounds that the top 6 is fairly locked in with Geel, Coll, Carl and Haw the top 4 followed by the Swans and Eagles. Both Essendon and Freo look shakey so there's probably just two spots open for the rest sitting outside the Eight. Craig has apparently publicly given up on the finals tonight and the Dogs are talking about also giving up and playing kids, so that leads Melb, us, Saints and North just a 1/2 to 2 wins outside the top 8 behind Freo. One absolute shocker has cost us a top 8 spot tonight.
-
Next three weeks will tell MT. If we can win 2 of our next 3 against Sydney Brisbane and Melbourne leaves us at 6-6-1. That way we can at least look to break even in the next block of four whicludes Carlton Essendon GOld Coast and Geelong to leave us 8-8-1 with five to play possibly against some sides who will be putting the cue in the rack ie North and Adelaide and possibly Melbourne leaving us with either beating Sydney here or West Coast in Perth to definentely sewing up a finals spot.
In all honesty I don't expect us to beat Sydney but if we can't beat Brisbane and Melbourne then I think we may fade away and only win 3 or 4 for the rest of the year as the finals candle with flicker out quite quickly.
In a worst case scenario the travel we are currently in Darwin Melbourne Sydney then Brisbane may ust deflate us and finish our season. That loss last week may have been the start. I hope not.
-
Sportsbet is at it again ....
... sportsbet.com.au is offering $7 about 10-placed Richmond finishing ninth. Since the inclusion of the final eight in 1994, the Tigers have finished ninth on six occasions (2008, 2006, 2000, 1998, 1996, and 1994).
After 2008, then Richmond coach Terry Wallace declared it a ''good ninth''. As it turned out, it was a bad ninth and his time at the club ended the following year.
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/its-elementary-my-dear-lyon-20110609-1fuz1.html#ixzz1OnsEPB4P
-
:lol
so to those who will absolutely spew if we finish 9th, ask yourself how much you would pay for it not to happen?
Now take that amount of money and bet at 7-1 to finish 9th.
If we don't finish 9th you win
If we do you still win.
-
Still reckon we are one, well maybe two decent drafts away from getting good compared to average players. After the Swans performance........we really need to finish between 13-16th IMO. We have really deluded ourselves, yes we have improved but clearly not that much.
-
We have improved in some respects as we can see we have a young core of half-a-dozen or so to build around but we are still a bottom 4 side in terms of quality which we already knew even if the ladder so far this year doesn't show it. We've played to our maximum for most of the season so far with a decent run with injuries while other sides expected to do better have struggled and are below us on the ladder. It's hard to see us now finishing any lower than 12th now. Brisbane and Gold Coast are clearly bottom 2. Port will most likely finish bottom 4 as well. Crows and Dogs will play youth now (tank). So that's the bottom 5. At "best" will be 6th bottom with North jumping ahead of us. The only way I see us finishing lower is if one of those sides gets on a mini-run-on like we did in the second half last year and gain a few cheap meaningless wins against other bottom sides to jump ahead of us. 12th place will leave us with pick 14 at best and just two picks inside the top 50 of the draft which isn't ideal where our list is at :-\. We haven't been smart as a club (hello Craig Cameron) using the draft system to our maximum advantage to add more and more class to our list. We have gained half-a-dozen top players at the top end of the draft being a crap side but missed out on priority picks to gain more freebie high picks along the way in recent years. Effort alone won't make up for a lack of class and polish. We still need way more class and polish as well as address our structural issues (rucks and tall backs).
-
Back to ninth with a bullent lol and only % behind the free-falling Bombers.
-
Well now it should show many people that we are far away....very far from mixing it up consistently with the top.
We must finish lower than 9th to get better picks....believe it or not.
-
I believe we will finish around 11-12th probably 12th with melbourne, st kilda and nth in front of us
-
After next week we'll most likely be 2 wins and % outside the Eight so 9th is probably the highest we can finish :P. On the other hand North, Bulldogs and maybe even the Saints with their easier draw can/could still easily finish above us. So 13th is probably the lowest we can finish (pick 12). A bottom 5 finish would be a truer reflection of where our list is at. We'll most likely finish with 7-8 wins IMO.
Carl - loss
Ess - 50/50
GC - probable win
Geel - loss
BYE
Eagles - loss
Swans - 50/50
Melb - loss
Adel - 50/50
North - 50/50
-
Carl - Loss
Ess - Win
GC - Win
Geel - Loss
BYE
Eagles - Loss
Swans - Loss
Melb - Loss
Adel - 50/50
North - 50/50
I'll say we'll beat Essendon, I think Hird will hit alarm bells and tank the be-Geez out of the list and make sure they get lowest draft pick as possible.
We'll win 1 of our last 2 games I feel. I think the Adelaide one will be a good win on the road and will lose to North.
So 3 wins. MT for mine.
-
After next week we'll most likely be 2 wins and % outside the Eight so 9th is probably the highest we can finish :P. On the other hand North, Bulldogs and maybe even the Saints with their easier draw can/could still easily finish above us. So 13th is probably the lowest we can finish (pick 12). A bottom 5 finish would be a truer reflection of where our list is at. We'll most likely finish with 7-8 wins IMO.
Carl - loss
Ess - 50/50
GC - probable win
Geel - loss
BYE
Eagles - loss
Swans - 50/50
Melb - loss
Adel - 50/50
North - 50/50
Depends what GC turn up but I would be swapping the Ess 50/50 to the probable win and marking GC down as 50/50.
-
Unless we cause a massive upset today, we could be 13th by the end of the round if the Saints knock off North yet still only a game outside the top 8.
-
Unless we cause a massive upset today, we could be 13th by the end of the round if the Saints knock off North yet still only a game outside the top 8.
Ok, so we will be 13th then!! Not really fussed about the 8 this year now. Next year is the year we must and should be IN the 8...... No excuses.
-
Unless we cause a massive upset today, we could be 13th by the end of the round if the Saints knock off North yet still only a game outside the top 8.
Ok, so we will be 13th then!! Not really fussed about the 8 this year now. Next year is the year we must and should be IN the 8...... No excuses.
13th on the ladder would give us pick 12 in the draft. I bet Dimma would love another Rioli to be available at that pick.
-
Unless we cause a massive upset today, we could be 13th by the end of the round if the Saints knock off North yet still only a game outside the top 8.
Ok, so we will be 13th then!! Not really fussed about the 8 this year now. Next year is the year we must and should be IN the 8...... No excuses.
13th on the ladder would give us pick 12 in the draft. I bet Dimma would love another Rioli to be available at that pick.
Wouldn't that be great MT, that would be the difference next year wouldn't it.
-
Unless we cause a massive upset today, we could be 13th by the end of the round if the Saints knock off North yet still only a game outside the top 8.
Ok, so we will be 13th then!! Not really fussed about the 8 this year now. Next year is the year we must and should be IN the 8...... No excuses.
13th on the ladder would give us pick 12 in the draft. I bet Dimma would love another Rioli to be available at that pick.
Wouldn't that be great MT, that would be the difference next year wouldn't it.
Yep the more potential A-graders the better :pray given shallowness in quality and class on our list after the first half-dozen or so Tigers. Better to finish lower and build a list looking at 2013-14 that will be up staying near the top for 4-5 years in a row rather than overachieving and pinching a finals spot now and stalling the rebuild thanks to no early picks.
-
Unless we cause a massive upset today, we could be 13th by the end of the round if the Saints knock off North yet still only a game outside the top 8.
Ok, so we will be 13th then!! Not really fussed about the 8 this year now. Next year is the year we must and should be IN the 8...... No excuses.
13th on the ladder would give us pick 12 in the draft. I bet Dimma would love another Rioli to be available at that pick.
Wouldn't that be great MT, that would be the difference next year wouldn't it.
Yep the more potential A-graders the better :pray given shallowness in quality and class on our list after the half-dozen or so Tigers. Better to finish lower and build a list looking at 2013-14 that will be up staying near the top for 4-5 years in a row rather than overachieving and pinching a finals spot now and stalling the rebuild thanks to no early picks.
100% agree with you MT... :cheers
-
be good to get a decent pick but finish just a game or two out of the eight
hopefully we get 2 games against GWS next year
-
be good to get a decent pick but finish just a game or two out of the eight
hopefully we get 2 games against GWS next year
Hopefully we can at least win one of them.... :-\
-
Good God, we really need to finish last now, never mind 9th!!!
-
Finish 13th above the two SA and QLD teams and take it from there.
7.5 wins may be the result and that may be pushing it.
On today's effort we'll struggle to beat GC17 in Cairns and the Crows at AAMI.
Just a far cry from 7 weeks ago when we met Essendon at Dreamtime.
It's the two biggest fallers from grace within a season match.
-
ninth... fat stuffin chance of reaching those dizzy heights.
-
We can finish 17th for all I care, pick up what's left of the draft after GC17 and GWS have finished raping it, and it wont make a lick of difference. Insipidness and failure are now so deeply ingrained at our club that NOTHING can save us!
-
We can finish 17th for all I care, pick up what's left of the draft after GC17 and GWS have finished raping it, and it wont make a lick of difference. Insipidness and failure are now so deeply ingrained at our club that NOTHING can save us!
Would have to say you might be right.
The final straw for me will be at the end of 2012, 3 years under gale and Dimma.
If these 2 can't fix our club then I will be so convinced nothing will
I still have faith but until they delist another 6-8 then we are going backwards
Ooh and another note
Bummers will beat us next week
-
We are going to struggle next year as well in the sense we will not make the finals so us supporters will just have to suck it up :-\. The list won't mature until 2013-14 and Dimma has only had two drafts to grandually sort through and toss out those not up to it. It's going to take another 2-3 years before we have a side with a A-grade core in the early-mid 20s age bracket.
Anyway crappy Saints footy reducing games to one goal per quarter :sleep has actually done us a favour in knocking off North tonight. We are now down to 13th and with Adelaide winning last night and with winnable games for them to come we still have a chance of ending up with a top 10 first pick with a bit of tanking :outtahere.
-
stuff me MT, to tank you actually have to be able to win first, only then you can deliberately lose :P.
seriously though, i don't think, ( hope ? :pray )that saturday was a real reflection of where we are at. we have had some good games this year and in most other games have shown at least patches of good footy.
if we get any more performances like that though i think i will be looking for a sturdy tree branch though. :(
-
eff me MT, to tank you actually have to be able to win first, only then you can deliberately lose :P.
:lol
seriously though, i don't think, ( hope ? :pray )that saturday was a real reflection of where we are at. we have had some good games this year and in most other games have shown at least patches of good footy.
if we get any more performances like that though i think i will be looking for a sturdy tree branch though. :(
The scars of round 1 2009 still exist for many of those around then so that means our leaders are scarred as well. We are just totally intimidated by Carlton and we're a beaten side before we even step out on the ground and then we get monstered and pushed around on it. It's men against boys. So I actually agree al that yesterday wasn't a real reflection as we haven't been that pathetically soft and lazy this year. We just are mentally and physically fragile against the top sides of which Carlton is one of them. We break easily and they know it. We need to get to the stage where we can have our own line in the sand game. We still might lose but we no longer tolerate getting out-bodied at stoppages and ragged dolled elsewhere especially from little Garlett types targetting a 3rd-gamer such as Helbig.
I would say last week was a truer reflection of where we are at. About a 4-5 goal worse side than other up and coming sides like Melbourne who are a year or two ahead of us in their rebuilding. We need to add far more class and size to our list to catch up.
-
Put your hand up if you still want to finish 9th....
When I started this thread thread I also mentioned that I would rather finish 14th or lower than 9th again if we didnt make the 8. Well many said they would rather finish 9th because we have improved so much.
stuff me, crap, now I would rather finish 16th, we are poo and we have no depth.
-
North winning tonight means we're now 1.5 wins behind 12th so with Geelong, the bye and Eagles in Perth to come in the next 3 weeks it's pretty safe to say we'll finish now no higher than 13th.
-
So then, we should finish about where we deserve to be...bring on the picks. Absolutely ripped off though, had GC and GWS not entered the comp we could be playing finals next year with the picks we SHOULD have had!!!!!!
-
So then, we should finish about where we deserve to be...bring on the picks. Absolutely ripped off though, had GC and GWS not entered the comp we could be playing finals next year with the picks we SHOULD have had!!!!!!
And you have confidence in our recruiters? Even with the picks I doubt we'd be anywhere near finals. They dont know whats needed to play AFL footy and there looking for the wrong type of players IMHO.
-
Yep, I think we need to recruit some decent recruiters... :lol
-
Just to scare everyone on a Sunday morning, we can still finish 9th this year :P.
We beat both Adel and North which would take us to 38 pts ahead of North on 36 pts.
Bulldogs beat Freo. Both would be on 36 pts.
Melboourne lose either to the Suns today or away to Port in a major upset; or beat them both by no more than 4-5 goals than we beat Adelaide and North by so we stay ahead of the Dees on %.
-
hehe, at least it would prove we have improved....
-
Yep still a big chance to finish ninth.
The Princesses play Port at their new home next week at the Adelaide Oval so assuming POrt play with the spirit they have today and the Dees are in more trouble than the early settlers we may indeed finish ninth. Assuming we beat Nought.
-
The Club will push the line of the symmetry for Dimma between us this year and his time at Hawthorn where in 2006 they had a good start to the year followed by a crappy mid-season (lost 12 from 13) before coming home and winning their last 4 games. That year 19 of their future premiership players played. The only difference their 9 wins meant 11th on the ladder and got them pick 6 (which they stuffed up selecting Thorp ahead of Selwood).
-
The Club will push the line of the symmetry for Dimma between us this year and his time at Hawthorn where in 2006 they had a good start to the year followed by a crappy mid-season (lost 12 from 13) before coming home and winning their last 4 games. That year 19 of their future premiership players played. The only difference their 9 wins meant 11th on the ladder and got them pick 6 (which they stuffed up selecting Thorp ahead of Selwood).
they sure will push the similarities. What will happen if we fall in a heap next year? hmmm..
-
they sure will push the similarities. What will happen if we fall in a heap next year? hmmm..
Malthouse for coach in 2013?
:lol
-
Great, another win.... :banghead
-
Great, another win.... :banghead
Yeah it was actually.... looked they we were going to get smashed and we came back
Shocking stuff :rollin :rollin
-
hehe, at least it would prove we have improved....
Not having a stab Owl, but the question would be raised.
If we finished 10,11,12 even 13th it would be an improvement on last year, but somehow I believe our last attempt at trying to earn some respect is in vein as rival clubs are switching to auto pilot and taking advantage of our efforts to reap benefits from draft.
Wherever they finish be it 9th or 12th, I have seen some encouraging signs this year, and some not so :)
-
Great, another win.... :banghead
:lol
when we were loosing you were one of the first and loudest to sook.
Now you want us to lose, we are winning :lol
maybe you should want us lose forever more.
-
hehe, at least it would prove we have improved....
Not having a stab Owl, but the question would be raised.
If we finished 10,11,12 even 13th it would be an improvement on last year, but somehow I believe our last attempt at trying to earn some respect is in vein as rival clubs are switching to auto pilot and taking advantage of our efforts to reap benefits from draft.
Wherever they finish be it 9th or 12th, I have seen some encouraging signs this year, and some not so :)
Fair theory but I think the crows were trying to win that one. The players were certainly playing for their spot on the list next year and perhaps the interim coach was trying to show his ability to take on the job. Tanking is usually pretty obvious. Soon as we loosened up in the final quarter and they snuck a goal back they thought they had an outside chance and pushed hard to try steal it so I would stake a nut they were giving it a genuine push. The Melbourne game? That was pride, they wanted to prove they were better than us and that they have wore a stink around their neck ever since that tank game.
-
Great, another win.... :banghead
Yeah it was actually.... looked they we were going to get smashed and we came back
Shocking stuff :rollin :rollin
It is shocking, really I wish so many supporters would realise how far behind we actually are instead of getting excited about pointless wins. Freo have 10 times the depth we have and we may finish just below them......wake up, I can't wait for the whiners next year when we can't win poo....
Wake up Geoff......
-
WAT i think we will find out if Dimma feels the same about our club come trade time. Il reserve my judgement till then.
If we still have the lost cloggers then we might be in trouble.
I thought about this today and 9th doesnt bother me that much because Dimma knows he cant go backwards or the club would be seen to have stalled in 2012.
Finish 9th this year and we have to finish in the 8 at the least next year or the pressure will be really on..
After seeing all the clubs outside the 8, bar Freo i would say we are equal to if not better so really a finish anywhere from 9-13 is a good reflection of where we are at.
I really think we can finish in the 8 next year but we still lack serious depth. One major injury to Lids, Cotch or Jack and we are stuffed.
Who will replace them. Nason, Connors, The pear, Mcguane. Come on lets get serious Coburg are full of C Graders.
-
I really think we can finish in the 8 next year but we still lack serious depth. One major injury to Lids, Cotch or Jack and we are stuffed.
Got it in a nutshell daniel
WAT I ask you this if we had made the eight which would give us what? Pick 19 or 20 would that have been OK..what's the difference
We wanted improvement we've got improvement, most us thought 8-10 wins would where we'd end up I don't really know why you're getting so agitated about it all
Certainly we have a long way to go but we appear to be heading in the right direction with some quality kids coming through...that's what we wanted, that's what we're getting
Can't complain
-
Great, another win.... :banghead
I think on surface that this post would be considered idiotic at just about any other club.
Richmond, and any supporters who want to think this are probably entitled to have this view in light of the many,many false dawns that have preceded the Hardwick era.
Hardwick and the club cannot expect anything more than this view from even the most ardent supporter.
It's not Hardwick or B Gales fault but they were employed on the back on the legacy and so, like my wife's ex boyfriends, have to buy into the baggage that is the failed, dismal, tortured past of our clubs last 30 years.
But in saying that, let me say this!
I'm big on mini milestones in football and to beat the Swans (again no fluke now) and the Crows (over there) after several poundings over the past several years - is a milestone.
I'd almost take those 2 wins over beating power and GC had we played and beaten them instead of crows and swans - beating the bogy sides tells us something about this so called crap list.
The Saints draw also sits in there somewhere as some sort move forward.
So, for me that kinda overrides the cheap win comment.
I thought 7-9 wins at the start of the year, if we have a close loss and finish 12tg, if not and finish 9 th, stuff it a starving man doesn't knock back home brand crackers
-
I really think we can finish in the 8 next year but we still lack serious depth. One major injury to Lids, Cotch or Jack and we are stuffed.
Got it in a nutshell daniel
WAT I ask you this if we had made the eight which would give us what? Pick 19 or 20 would that have been OK..what's the difference
We wanted improvement we've got improvement, most us thought 8-10 wins would where we'd end up I don't really know why you're getting so agitated about it all
Certainly we have a long way to go but we appear to be heading in the right direction with some quality kids coming through...that's what we wanted, that's what we're getting
Can't complain
WP finishing 8th even if we get thrashed would mean more to me than missing out. Its about finals and eventually winning the big one but with 30 years of nothing id take a elimination final against the Blues with a 90k crowd over a early Mad Monday any day of the week and then i couldnt care less about picks.
There are no guarantees we will be in the 8 cause a few injuries here or there and we are back down.
On field i consider this season a success and its got nothing to do with our win/loss ratio. I would rank the development of Vickery/Rance/Cotch and the drafting success of Batch as bigger stories IMO.
Off field this draft period is arguably our most important. We cant rest we need to recruit smart and offload as much dead wood as we can.
-
Off field this draft period is arguably our most important. We cant rest we need to recruit smart and offload as much dead wood as we can.
Totally agree daniel
this upcoming trade period & draft are absolutely crucial
-
I really think we can finish in the 8 next year but we still lack serious depth. One major injury to Lids, Cotch or Jack and we are stuffed.
Got it in a nutshell daniel
WAT I ask you this if we had made the eight which would give us what? Pick 19 or 20 would that have been OK..what's the difference
We wanted improvement we've got improvement, most us thought 8-10 wins would where we'd end up I don't really know why you're getting so agitated about it all
Certainly we have a long way to go but we appear to be heading in the right direction with some quality kids coming through...that's what we wanted, that's what we're getting
Can't complain
Ok, missing my point, I really don't think we have improved that much. It's the end of the season and we are beating teams that are just as bad........what's the point, wait and see.
-
Ok, missing my point, I really don't think we have improved that much. It's the end of the season and we are beating teams that are just as bad........what's the point, wait and see.
WAT they should a really interestng stat on Footy Classified about the number of top 8 teams the teams in the top hasd beaten.
Saints or Essendon had only beaten 1 team in the top 8 - I think it was the Bombers
Caro made the comment that Richmond had won more games against teams in the top 8 (2 = Swans & Bombers + a draw against the Saints)... if that isn't improvement I don't know what is?
How great the improvement has been is the debate ...
-
And if you recall, we were robbed in that saints game too, that should of been in the win column without a doubt. Even got an umpire apology for that debacle. We had a few close losses too. We pushed scumwood for a bit and back then they were getting away with having a second player stand just off to the side of players with a free kick or mark to pressure them into rushing the kick or rush them when they got whistled to play on. I noticed this has stopped now, it was murdering us in that game but they must of been worded up quietly to knock it off. Nonetheless, we have improved, the results are there to see and flippant sound bites from twats paid to pad out a few minutes of drivel can't change that fact. There are only a few blokes who speak and I take seriously in the media because when they say things they are genuine and usually unbiased.
-
Everyone is a comedian :yawn ...
Who will win the Richmond premiership?
Round 24 is looking a bit like a damp squib with most of the positions inside the top eight locked down, barring who will host the elimination final between St Kilda and Sydney. That means one of the few contests worth watching this weekend will be the battle for the Richmond premiership, or ninth as some people know it.
The AFL have scheduled the draw perfectly this week so that reigning Richmond premiers, North Melbourne face the team who the award is named after this week in a battle to decide who was best of the rest for season 2011. Richmond (or ninthmond as some fans prefer) has made the ladder position its own in recent times, finishing oh-so-close to finals qualification an incredible six times in the last 16 years. North Melbourne, though, is quickly closing the gap and is the in the strongest position to take back-to-back titles.
http://www.bigpondsport.com/who-is-smarter/tabid/91/newsid/76585/default.aspx
-
Screw it, let's finish 9th. Gives us something more ambitious to strive for next season; either we make the finals or we've gone backwards. Perhaps a tad premature, but it beats settling for something like 12th or 13th and then being able to exclaim "we've improved!" next season if we finish 9th.
-
Well at least we can say we got some September action this year :rollin :thumbsup
-
The Dogs beat Freo so 9th spot is open if we want it :P :nope.
-
:whistle :whistle :whistle
-
i think people are forgetting stkilda play adelaide in adelaide, and will win imo. so if we lose to sydney and wce win as most expect we will finish 10th by percentage.
it really is time for the afl to stop rewarding mediocrity with finals games, ffs 11 games could get a side in take it to a final 5 and just have those who really deserve it in there.
-
i think people are forgetting stkilda play adelaide in adelaide, and will win imo. so if we lose to sydney and wce win as most expect we will finish 10th by percentage.
it really is time for the afl to stop rewarding mediocrity with finals games, ffs 11 games could get a side in take it to a final 5 and just have those who really deserve it in there.
Problem is teams will just tank. A whole heap of meaningless games, which the AFL doesn't want.
-
i think people are forgetting stkilda play adelaide in adelaide, and will win imo. so if we lose to sydney and wce win as most expect we will finish 10th by percentage.
it really is time for the afl to stop rewarding mediocrity with finals games, ffs 11 games could get a side in take it to a final 5 and just have those who really deserve it in there.
Less finals = less money
Money money money
Drug cheats? Can't ban then of course. Think about the money.
Brand value. Money.
Dont forget the money.
Next TVrights
"OOK, here is four billion Australian dollars"
"Yeah butbclaw says we should not reward mediocrity
-
How is it rewarding mediocrity when the best performed team for 1/3 of the season is fighting for 8th?
We are living proof that winning a flag from 8th is plausible.
-
Every team not playing the other teams in the same league, an equal number of times. Means its all a bit of a laugh no doubt, somewhere some powerful people in the epl and nba a having a quite chuckle at the backwater of the afl
That's before you start worrying about finals, and the number of teams participating
-
I dont think they give a poo about us down here
-
How is it rewarding mediocrity when the best performed team for 1/3 of the season is fighting for 8th?
We are living proof that winning a flag from 8th is plausible.
The streak has made many people go mad.
-
How is it rewarding mediocrity when the best performed team for 1/3 of the season is fighting for 8th?
We are living proof that winning a flag from 8th is plausible.
The streak has made many people go mad.
Not at all, we are not talking about a small sample here, 8 games is 1/3 of the season.
If we beat Sydney and go into the eight this week, and it's a big if, then anything could happen.
We are strong on the road and could even plausibly face North in the first final who are schizophrenic.
-
When does the DVD come out?
-
How is it rewarding mediocrity when the best performed team for 1/3 of the season is fighting for 8th?
We are living proof that winning a flag from 8th is plausible.
The streak has made many people go mad.
Ain't that the truth
Over hearing people talk about winning a final Sunday made me laugh
Big R talking about a flag now. peeer
-
I'm as happy as the next Richmond tragic that our season is still alive because there were times during this season I was disillusioned with the whole club.
I hope we can go to another level....we still have been pretty ordinary during a lot of games throughout the "streak"...some of the games - Brisbane /GWS made my eyes bleed .
Wins against Essendon and Adelaide have made me believe again.
If we beat Sydney on Saturday I will go friggen mental.....reckon the footy gods owe us one.
-
The Sydney game will give a true indication of where our club stands presently.
-
Very true. If we were to beat the Swans, then I believe we have every right to be where we are.
-
Very true. If we were to beat the Swans, then I believe we have every right to be where we are.
It seems like if it is West Coast or Adelaide then they are just making up the numbers by sliding in. But if we beat the flag favorites as our 9th straight win then we deserve our position.
-
If they beat Sydney they'll win the flag
Sobering thought perhaps.
-
How is it rewarding mediocrity when the best performed team for 1/3 of the season is fighting for 8th?
We are living proof that winning a flag from 8th is plausible.
its not only rewarding mediocrity when you ignore 2/3 of the yr but head in the sand sort of stuff.
how many of the top top 4 have we beaten. or top 8 for that matter. the great run is just as much driven on the draw and who we have played.
its incredible the lack of intelligence and failure to learn from our past really is.
-
How is it rewarding mediocrity when the best performed team for 1/3 of the season is fighting for 8th?
We are living proof that winning a flag from 8th is plausible.
its not only rewarding mediocrity when you ignore 2/3 of the yr but head in the sand sort of stuff.
how many of the top top 4 have we beaten. or top 8 for that matter. the great run is just as much driven on the draw and who we have played.
its incredible the lack of intelligence and failure to learn from our past really is.
Funny enough I think we have and for the last few years performed very comptetitively against the top sides, it the middle tier that frustrates me when we play against, norf, Bummers and Adelaide