One-Eyed Richmond Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Him on September 17, 2011, 09:58:31 AM
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I am beginning to wonder if the immigration/boats debate is being manipulated by Julia Gillard to such a degree that it would make Machiavelli proud.
Julia has said that she is committed to stopping the boats through her "Malaysian" solution. Her proposed changes to the Immigration Act will clearly not get passed by Parliament.
By asking Abbott and the Libs for help she has backed them into a position where they will be the cause of the policy failing.
Julia can then say that the only solution is to instigate a policy of onshore processing of the "boat people".
:thumbsup
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Of course it's pure politics. Both sides are trying to look "tough" and are just pandering to the anti-immigration losers and the media who freak out over refugees arriving by boat by not by plane ::).
Ironically when we didn't have any mandatory detention in the 80s nor offshore processing not one boat arrived for 7 straight years! Just shows overseas conflicts play the major role in the number of refugees arriving rather than what stupid pollies in Australia come up with.
http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/bn/sp/boatarrivals.htm#_Toc285178607
The most people who have arrived by boat in any one year is 6,600. So it's not even half our required annual international obligated refugee intake of 13,500. It's also just 3% of our total immigration intake per year. All this fuss and taxpayers money wasted on pretending to stop a small number of asylum seekers entering the country who even if taken to Nauru or somewhere offshore they enter Australia eventually anyway. So yep they are all playing politics trying to wedge the other. It's all about perception instead of reality.
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Just shows overseas conflicts play the major role in the number of refugees arriving rather than what stupid pollies in Australia come up with.
After fighting against Italy in WW11 we went through a period of large italian immigration into the country.
After getting involved in Vietnam we received a large influx of vietnmese.
Lately it was the iraqis, and more recently Afghanistan.
Eff i hope we dont go to war with the Yanks
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After fighting against Italy in WW11 we went through a period of large italian immigration into the country.
After getting involved in Vietnam we received a large influx of vietnmese.
Lately it was the iraqis, and more recently Afghanistan.
Eff i hope we dont go to war with the Yanks
A few Yanks here already :yep
You're right btw al. Even after WWI a few Italians migrated here :thumbsup.
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Blow a couple up and they will stop coming.
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Promote shark infested waters instead of, "oh by the way, they've relaxed the laws".
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Turning the boats back 'risks lives': Admiral Ray Griggs
by: Brendan Nicholson and Paul Maley
From:The Australian
October 20, 201112:00AM
THE new chief of the navy has highlighted the dangers to defence personnel and asylum-seekers of turning back boats at sea, as promised by Tony Abbott under his border protection plans.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/defence/turning-the-boats-back-risks-lives-admiral-ray-griggs/story-e6frg8yo-1226171197750
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Six "Boat People" have died today.
This could have been prevented if Tony A had stopped playing politics for a minute.
And don't even pretend that this is Julia's fault.
RIP six citizens of the planet
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-11-01/six-asylum-seekers-believed-drowned-en-route-to-australia/3613528
Asylum seekers drown on way to Australia
Six asylum seekers including two children have drowned after their boat bound for Australia sank, Indonesian authorities said.
The West Java Anti-People Smuggling Task Force says about 18 asylum seekers are missing after the boat, carrying about 70 people, sank off the coast of Java.
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Perhaps the adults who in all likelihood paid for themselves and their kids to be placed in the dangerous situation, should take responsibility for their deaths. Why is it any polititians fault?
Modern Australia is the 'soft touch', and all taxpayers are getting taken for a ride.
I'd rather pump that money into the Heath system, increasing pensions or putting homeless people in homes.
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Perhaps the adults who in all likelihood paid for themselves and their kids to be placed in the dangerous situation, should take responsibility for their deaths. Why is it any polititians fault?
Modern Australia is the 'soft touch', and all taxpayers are getting taken for a ride.
I'd rather pump that money into the Heath system, increasing pensions or putting homeless people in homes.
i don't care who is at fault.
But clearly Tony A could have prevented this if he wasn't so power hungry.
I wonder how many liberal voters out there are feeling just a little remorse at his actions.
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i don't care who is at fault.
But clearly Tony A could have prevented this if he wasn't so power hungry.
I wonder how many liberal voters out there are feeling just a little remorse at his actions.
You say you don't care who's fault it is but in the next sentence you are saying it's Abbott's fault because he "could have prevented this"
Look I detest the man but the simple facts are the people at fault are the smugglers and those stupid enough to get on the boats that clearly not safe
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It could also be that that no matter how unsafe the journey is,people undertake it because their current lot is just so bad, not that they are stupid?
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i don't care who is at fault.
But clearly Tony A could have prevented this if he wasn't so power hungry.
I wonder how many liberal voters out there are feeling just a little remorse at his actions.
You say you don't care who's fault it is but in the next sentence you are saying it's Abbott's fault because he "could have prevented this"
Look I detest the man but the simple facts are the people at fault are the smugglers and those stupid enough to get on the boats that clearly not safe
I was not and will not apportion blame but...
FACT is Tony A has it within his ability to stop this happening again.
But he won't because he is a power hungry little grub.
People are dying but bringing down the Government is more important.
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It could also be that that no matter how unsafe the journey is,people undertake it because their current lot is just so bad, not that they are stupid?
Fair point
I was not and will not apportion blame but...
You are apportioning blame by saying .....
FACT is Tony A has it within his ability to stop this happening again.
That is where you are wrong
And BTW Tony is wrong in spruiking his policy will stop the boats and trying to con the Australian people that he can stop the boats - he cannot, the ALP cannot. Just because the don't make it to Aust waters doesn't mean the boats stop
No policy will stop the boats & anyone who believes that is living in "noddy" land
Fact is people who are despearate enough will try anything and the smugglers know that and and they will keep supplying the unsafe boats
Lock up one smuggler and there will be another one waiting in line to send out the next boat
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WP
Tell me how the "Malaysian" solution won't work?
A boat arrives and they all get shipped off to Malaysia and go to the back of the refugee queue.
Why hop on a boat?
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Tony has the opportunity to show some compassion (wouldn't hurt his standing with the public) and pass this legislation.
It is time to do something that will stop these needless deaths.
And Narau is not an option, neraly all of the refugees sent there have ended up in Australai. It is not a deterrent to the people smugglers or the refugees.
FACT
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/asylum-seekers-drown-on-way-to-australia/story-e6frf7jo-1226182962789
Up to 20 feared dead after asylum seeker boat sinks off Indonesia
THE Federal Government is urging the Coalition to reconsider its opposition to the Malaysia people-swap solution in light of the drowning deaths of asylum seekers en route to Australia.
But the Opposition says the tragic event should not be used for political purposes.
At least seven people were confirmed dead late last night by Indonesian authorities, who said the vessel went down just hours after leaving from a port in Central Java.
The death toll was expected to rise with more people still missing.
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65 you are laughable. You are still ranting on with your political vitriol and losing credibility with every contradicting post.
Why not forget about politics for one second and stop and look at why these people are coming, how they are getting here and why more and more are coming every day.
Ponder this analogy, If horse manure was being dumped on your doorstep every day, would you 1, look at how to stop who is dumping it or two concede that it cannot be stopped and then just look at various costly options for someone to remove it, spray a bit of air freshener on it and then send it straight back to you.
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Tony has the opportunity to show some compassion (wouldn't hurt his standing with the public) and pass this legislation.
It is time to do something that will stop these needless deaths.
Maybe its time you did something if you feel so strongly about it. Certainly opening up your house to a few refugees or newly arrived immigrants would be an appropraite action, and one which is consistent with your viewpoints. So tell us, when will you be registering your house with the relevant authorities, or have we mistaken you?
And Narau is not an option, neraly all of the refugees sent there have ended up in Australai.
FACT
FACT: - Australai is spelt A U S T R A L I A. Irrespective of what your poitics are, we all love this country so the least can do is not insult every one and try to spell it properly. Get it right or go back to school. :police:
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Tony has the opportunity to show some compassion (wouldn't hurt his standing with the public) and pass this legislation.
It is time to do something that will stop these needless deaths.
Maybe its time you did something if you feel so strongly about it. Certainly opening up your house to a few refugees or newly arrived immigrants would be an appropraite action, and one which is consistent with your viewpoints. So tell us, when will you be registering your house with the relevant authorities, or have we mistaken you?
And Narau is not an option, neraly all of the refugees sent there have ended up in Australai.
FACT
FACT: - Australai is spelt A U S T R A L I A. Irrespective of what your poitics are, we all love this country so the least can do is not insult every one and try to spell it properly. Get it right or go back to school. :police:
Yeah right.
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WP
Tell me how the "Malaysian" solution won't work?
A boat arrives and they all get shipped off to Malaysia and go to the back of the refugee queue.
Why hop on a boat?
Tell me how it can?
I would be willing to give it a try but struth you are grasping at straws if you think it will stop all the boats I will say it again FACT is wont.
But to humour you as to why I think it wont work:
One becasue it only covers 800 people, dont' need many boats for 800 people - so what happens once the hit we magical 800 number. Where do they go then? You are assuming that after a few interceptions of boats all the smugglers will say "oh dear this is too hard & we're not doing this anymore" - Isn't going to happen
And 2ndly and most importantly it doens't matter where they get shipped off to people will still hop on a boat and try to get to Australia or wherever because desperate peole do desperate & stupid things
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Tony has the opportunity to show some compassion (wouldn't hurt his standing with the public) and pass this legislation.
It is time to do something that will stop these needless deaths.
Maybe its time you did something if you feel so strongly about it. Certainly opening up your house to a few refugees or newly arrived immigrants would be an appropraite action, and one which is consistent with your viewpoints. So tell us, when will you be registering your house with the relevant authorities, or have we mistaken you?
And Narau is not an option, neraly all of the refugees sent there have ended up in Australai.
FACT
FACT: - Australai is spelt A U S T R A L I A. Irrespective of what your poitics are, we all love this country so the least can do is not insult every one and try to spell it properly. Get it right or go back to school. :police:
Yeah right.
You still haven't answered my question, so I assume you have chosen to avoid the question because it the answer weakens your earlier rants.
Your opinion is therefore flawed. Not that we didn't know any different ;)
I'll be in the spa
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Tony has the opportunity to show some compassion (wouldn't hurt his standing with the public) and pass this legislation.
It is time to do something that will stop these needless deaths.
Maybe its time you did something if you feel so strongly about it. Certainly opening up your house to a few refugees or newly arrived immigrants would be an appropraite action, and one which is consistent with your viewpoints. So tell us, when will you be registering your house with the relevant authorities, or have we mistaken you?
And Narau is not an option, neraly all of the refugees sent there have ended up in Australai.
FACT
FACT: - Australai is spelt A U S T R A L I A. Irrespective of what your poitics are, we all love this country so the least can do is not insult every one and try to spell it properly. Get it right or go back to school. :police:
Yeah right.
You still haven't answered my question, so I assume you have chosen to avoid the question because it the answer weakens your earlier rants.
Your opinion is therefore flawed. Not that we didn't know any different ;)
I'll be in the spa
Yeah right.
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Tell me how it can?
I would be willing to give it a try but struth you are grasping at straws if you think it will stop all the boats I will say it again FACT is wont.
But to humour you as to why I think it wont work:
One becasue it only covers 800 people, dont' need many boats for 800 people - so what happens once the hit we magical 800 number. Where do they go then? You are assuming that after a few interceptions of boats all the smugglers will say "oh dear this is too hard & we're not doing this anymore" - Isn't going to happen
And 2ndly and most importantly it doens't matter where they get shipped off to people will still hop on a boat and try to get to Australia or wherever because desperate peole do desperate & stupid things
It won't be the people smugglers who will decide it's not worth it, it will be the refugees.
These are not stupid people (you are sounding a little racist but I'm sure that wasn't the intent).
And you don't think Malaysia will enter into another agreement. They accept 800 Australia funded refugees and get to offload 3000.
It will work, just think about it logically.
'65
PS I spell checked this reply just to keep the grammar NAZIs happy
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These are not stupid people (you are sounding a little racist but I'm sure that wasn't the intent).
excuse me?
Please tell me where I was sounding a little racist?
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These are not stupid people (you are sounding a little racist but I'm sure that wasn't the intent).
excuse me?
Please tell me where I was sounding a little racist?
My apologies but I did say you "are sounding a little racist but I'm sure that wasn't the intent"
Your words "because desperate people do desperate & stupid things" sounded a little racist to me.
But back to the topic, I gather from your deflection you might find merit in what I am saying but don't want to admit it.
'65
I wait for more deflection, prove me wrong. :bow
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How could this be interpreted as racist , in any sense?
You are one weird cat 65.
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Your words "because desperate people do desperate & stupid things" sounded a little racist to me.
But back to the topic, I gather from your deflection you might find merit in what I am saying but don't want to admit it.
Er there was no deflection
I had no idea what thew hell you were referring too and still don't
Because I don't understand how you've come to the conclusion that saying "because desperate people do desperate & stupid things" sounds "a little racist" to you
My comment had nothing to do with race - it was a simply a point of view that desperate people sometimes do desperate & stupid things. Their race has absolutely nothing to do with it
ANd no I don't find any merit in what you said because IMHO the smugglers will still line up the boats and the refugees will still and get on them. The only difference is we wont hear about it
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WP
What do you think should happen?
'65
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The only difference is we wont hear about it
And that appears to be the only aim of the pollies. Who cares about the asylum seekers just as long as the issue is politically killed off for their sake and they appease the losers in society who need a scapegoat and those in the media who are obsessed with every boat arrival as if we are being invaded ::) despite the fact the number of boat people arrivals has never ever reached more than half our required annual refugee intake.
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These are not stupid people (you are sounding a little racist but I'm sure that wasn't the intent).
excuse me?
Please tell me where I was sounding a little racist?
My apologies but I did say you "are sounding a little racist but I'm sure that wasn't the intent"
Your words "because desperate people do desperate & stupid things" sounded a little racist to me.
But back to the topic, I gather from your deflection you might find merit in what I am saying but don't want to admit it.
'65
I wait for more deflection, prove me wrong. :bow
Wow I ordered a Burger the other day and asked for BBQ sauce instead of Tomato. :o I had better stop that for fear of being labeled a racist.
Comedy gold 65! Keep em coming champ. :thumbsup
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This thread was always going to end in tears lol :'(
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Are there prizes for guessing political affiliations? :pray
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Are there prizes for guessing political affiliations? :pray
Go right ahead, I bet you get mine wrong.
:cheers
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Are there prizes for guessing political affiliations? :pray
Don't go there Sabre, as Genesis once put it you'll end up in a "land of confusion"
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Lol
Word is that Rudd has been advised to challenge Gillard for leader of the ALP, and the pressure mounts!!!
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So I guess not a straightforward Labor V Liberal contest of wills? :laugh:
Greens V Communists? Too much camouflage, if you're going to fight clash!
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Sabre, most of us seem to have a fairly logical debating platform to stand on but I am waiting for a certain individual to come flying back into the discussion and in and in a low gravelly tone announce "I'm Batman" :lol
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WP
What do you think should happen?
'65
I dont have a solution '65 because I dont' think there is one single solution TBH.
As I said IMO it doesn't matter what the policy or which party's policy it is the boats will still try and get here.
With the only difference if there is an off-shore processing situation is that we wont hear about it but the boats will still and get here.
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WP
What do you think should happen?
'65
I dont have a solution '65 because I dont' think there is one single solution TBH.
As I said IMO it doesn't matter what the policy or which party's policy it is the boats will still try and get here.
With the only difference if there is an off-shore processing situation is that we wont hear about it but the boats will still and get here.
I didn't ask for a solution only your thoughts on what should happen.
e.g.
On-shore or off-shore processing for people arriving by boats?
If off-shore then to which country? Narau? Malaysia?
If on-shore should we lock them up in refugee detention camps.
and most importantly...
Should we be trying to stop people dying trying to get to Australia by boat?
(Not how but just "should" we be trying...)
'65
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A question.
Why does it take so long to process asylum seekers?
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A question.
Why does it take so long to process asylum seekers?
Because a large proportion destroy their identification. It then takes time to establish and legally proove who they are, where they are from, whether they have a criminal record and a series of other tests to determine refugee qualification.
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so if we spent more money on resources to process them quicker, we wouldn't have to house them for as long?
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why do the smugglers make them do that anyway?
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why do the smugglers make them do that anyway?
Why do you no longer have an avatar????
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The people smugglers told him to destroy it ;)
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:lol
Should be back early next week
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Stop the Boats, Rescind the Tax, Get Labor Out - Down with the Socialists ;D :lol
And get that riff raff out of the city. A bunch of no hopers who dont know what they're complaining about. Get out idiots and go back to Hicksville where you all come from.
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And more blood on the hands of anybody who supports this power hungry mongrel.
Tony has the power to stop this but is more interested in gaining power.
And don't rabbit on about the Nauru solution either. It won't work because asylum seekers know they will end up in Australia if they go to Nauru.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-12-18/asylum-seeker-boat-sinks-off-java/3736828
Asylum seeker boat sinks off Java
Updated December 18, 2011 08:08:25
A wooden boat carrying more than 200 asylum seekers is reported to have sunk off Indonesia.
Indonesian media outlets say the boat was heading to Australia and sank about 30 kilometres off the East Java coast.
Thirty-three survivors have been plucked form the sea.
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Deja vu anyone?
It's ironic that you are using people's deaths to make your own political point. (for a second time)
History suggests that you are either trolling this thread, or, are too simple to check the last 4 pages to realise that nobody agrees with your propaganda. It goes nowhere and you get taken apart trying to justify it.
So spare us all, have some self discipline and pipe down.
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Actually i dont care who comes into the country(criminals exempted),lets welcome them all.I admire the USA of yesteryear who said .give me your tired ,your poor and hungry.or maybe these days its more a case of what Lou reed sang.....Give me your tired ,your poor ,and hungry and I'll pee on them.
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Deja vu anyone?
It's ironic that you are using people's deaths to make your own political point. (for a second time)
History suggests that you are either trolling this thread, or, are too simple to check the last 4 pages to realise that nobody agrees with your propaganda. It goes nowhere and you get taken apart trying to justify it.
So spare us all, have some self discipline and pipe down.
So I gather you are happy to continue to let Asylum seekers risk their lives in leaky old rust-bucket boats?
Or maybe you just don't care?
:wallywink
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Deja vu anyone?
It's ironic that you are using people's deaths to make your own political point. (for a second time)
History suggests that you are either trolling this thread, or, are too simple to check the last 4 pages to realise that nobody agrees with your propaganda. It goes nowhere and you get taken apart trying to justify it.
So spare us all, have some self discipline and pipe down.
So I gather you are happy to continue to let Asylum seekers risk their lives in leaky old rust-bucket boats?
Or maybe you just don't care?
:wallywink
On Dookies scale of world issues, it measures about a 3 out of 10 in terms of importance.
There are much bigger problems in the world, effecting many more peoples lives and livelihoods.
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Deja vu anyone?
It's ironic that you are using people's deaths to make your own political point. (for a second time)
History suggests that you are either trolling this thread, or, are too simple to check the last 4 pages to realise that nobody agrees with your propaganda. It goes nowhere and you get taken apart trying to justify it.
So spare us all, have some self discipline and pipe down.
So I gather you are happy to continue to let Asylum seekers risk their lives in leaky old rust-bucket boats?
Or maybe you just don't care?
:wallywink
On Dookies scale of world issues, it measures about a 3 out of 10 in terms of importance.
There are much bigger problems in the world, effecting many more peoples lives and livelihoods.
Very true but this is one we can do something about.
Small steps.
:thumbsup
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The Australian's editorial says it all.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/moral-dimension-of-tragic-loss-must-be-confronted/story-e6frg71x-1226225257035
Moral dimension of tragic loss must be confronted
From:The Australian
December 19, 201112:00AM
NOT that the concept would mean anything to them, but the people-smugglers who pocketed $10,000 for every man, woman and child who drowned off the Javanese coast early yesterday are morally culpable for the deaths. Without a skerrick of concern for the safety of the passengers or crew, a fishing boat never intended as a passenger vessel was loaded with about 250 people, mainly from Afghanistan and the Middle East, bound for Australia. Like the overcrowded boat that splintered off Christmas Island a year ago, the vessel was a deathtrap. Those who survived by clinging to its debris until they were picked up by fishermen have told how panic among those on board made the vessel even more unstable as it lurched from side to side before breaking apart....
...Australia's main political players were lying low yesterday, but unless there is an enormous shifting of ground they are unlikely to agree on a site for offshore processing, with the Coalition committed to using the Australian-built facilities on Nauru and Labor favouring the so-called Malaysian Solution that was scuttled by the High Court on August 31. What they must agree on, as soon as possible, is to pass legislation amending the Migration Act to allow the government of the day to enact offshore processing in the location or locations of their choice. Unfortunately, it is now probably too late to recall parliament before Christmas, as we suggested in recent weeks, but an agreement between Julia Gillard and Tony Abbott to pass the necessary amendments as soon as possible would send the necessary signals that Australia is not prepared to remain a soft touch as hardened criminals put more lives in jeopardy.
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Both Labor and Liberal parties have failed in asylum seeker policy, and both have pursued unsustainable and wreckless positions. The only way out of the current mess IMO is to reinstate temporary protection visas, so that asylum seekers can be welcomed to Australia and offered temporary safe haven, then when it is safe to return to their homelands, they can return.
This position is the only principled position in this debate. It allows us to tackle the abuse of the concept of "asylum" by the left, who really mean permanent residence for anyone wanting to make their home in Australia. But it also allows to tackle the unprincipled xenophobia on the right, who have shown themselves willing to demonise vulnerable people in the quest for votes.
Asylum seekers are seeking asylum. They are not, ostensibly, seeking permanent residence. If they are found to be genuinely fleeing persectution, then they should be offered asylum until such time as it is safe to return home, then, they should return. A 2 year temporary protection visa, renewable for a further two years if conditions at home are not yet safe, is needed to restore some sanity into this issue!
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Both Labor and Liberal parties have failed in asylum seeker policy, and both have pursued unsustainable and wreckless positions. The only way out of the current mess IMO is to reinstate temporary protection visas, so that asylum seekers can be welcomed to Australia and offered temporary safe haven, then when it is safe to return to their homelands, they can return.
This position is the only principled position in this debate. It allows us to tackle the abuse of the concept of "asylum" by the left, who really mean permanent residence for anyone wanting to make their home in Australia. But it also allows to tackle the unprincipled xenophobia on the right, who have shown themselves willing to demonise vulnerable people in the quest for votes.
Asylum seekers are seeking asylum. They are not, ostensibly, seeking permanent residence. If they are found to be genuinely fleeing persectution, then they should be offered asylum until such time as it is safe to return home, then, they should return. A 2 year temporary protection visa, renewable for a further two years if conditions at home are not yet safe, is needed to restore some sanity into this issue!
I agree completely BUT...
It won't stop people risking their lives in leaky overcrowded rust buckets.
How many people have to die before our politicians get the message.
:banghead
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How many people have to die before our politicians get the message.
Finally you say it in the above statement
It is both sides not just one side that needs to get with the program
Oops sorry selected the wrong option - should not have strikethrough should have been underlined
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How many people have to die before our politicians get the message.
Finally you say it in the above statement
It is both sides not just one side that needs to get with the program
Tell me then, what can the Government do to stop the boats?
And please don't insult me with the Narau option.
:bow
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How many people have to die before our politicians get the message.
Finally you say it in the above statement
It is both sides not just one side that needs to get with the program
Tell me then, what can the Government do to stop the boats?
And please don't insult me with the Narau option.
:bow
Read above (again ;)) Bring back temporary protection visas.......
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How many people have to die before our politicians get the message.
Finally you say it in the above statement
It is both sides not just one side that needs to get with the program
Tell me then, what can the Government do to stop the boats?
And please don't insult me with the Narau option.
:bow
Read above (again ;)) Bring back temporary protection visas.......
But temporary protection visas will not stop the boats coming.
Give them temporary protection visas, allow them into the community and they will disappear.
:banghead
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How many people have to die before our politicians get the message.
Finally you say it in the above statement
It is both sides not just one side that needs to get with the program
Tell me then, what can the Government do to stop the boats?
And please don't insult me with the Narau option.
:bow
I will repeat what i have said about this so many times but you fail or refuse to accept my answer.
IMHO It doesn't not matter one iota what the policy is the boats will not be stopped.
It doens't matter which policy it is, which part is in govt it wont stop the boats
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I will repeat what i have said about this so many times but you fail or refuse to accept my answer.
IMHO It doesn't not matter one iota what the policy is the boats will not be stopped.
It doens't matter which policy it is, which part is in govt it wont stop the boats
WP
I have just gone back and re-read most of this thread (there's 15 minutes I will never get back again) and you are quite right you have said it before.
But it doesn't matter how many times you say it, it still doesn't make it correct.
There are a lot of people out there saying it will work.
Put the Malaysian solution in place and ship the next 800 arrivals to Malaysia and put them at the back of the queue.
Enter into another agreement with Malaysia and do the same thing again, And don't think Malaysia won't come to the party, the deal is very favourable for them.
The main benefit from my point of view is that if it does work then people will stop dying in leaky rustbuckets trying to get here.
Surely it is at least worth trying.
:bow
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What queue?
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exactly, there is no queue.
as long as people's countries are ravaged by war and the only way you can apply for asylum is from a different country than your own, people willl take the risk of trying to get to countries where life is not so stuffed up
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exactly, there is no queue.
as long as people's countries are ravaged by war and the only way you can apply for asylum is from a different country than your own, people willl take the risk of trying to get to countries where life is not so stuffed up
I agree al, until till the root of the problem is addressed, they'll keep arriving on our shores like lemmings. As most of them appear to be Afghan refugees, it is one hell of a task to try and fix that one. The Vietnamese refugee problem of the 70's & 80's only resolved itself once things stabilized in their country and I can't see the Afghan issue resolving itself within the next 15 years as it is such a poo hole over there atm. Even the Yanks are starting to give up fighting the faceless Taliban just like the Russians before them. Not sure if a complete withdrawal of Western troops from Afghanistan will help, but I think it is worth a try especially for those who are fleeing just because of the conflict and not the Taliban regime.
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The government needs to govern, they dont know how to govern and these issues all of them lay at the feet of federal Labor. Its not for the opposition to do the governments bidding, its up to the government to produce the policies that work - up till now Gillard and Labor have been an abysmal failure.
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The government needs to govern, they dont know how to govern and these issues all of them lay at the feet of federal Labor. Its not for the opposition to do the governments bidding, its up to the government to produce the policies that work - up till now Gillard and Labor have been an abysmal failure.
As has the Malaysia solution.
How many did we take? 5000 of Malaysia's finest, most economically independent, law abiding ::) . Hand picked by them.
And how many of the 800 that landed in Australia that were swapped actually ended up in Malaysia?
The ALP has NFI.
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Not that I agree with offshore processing but the Malayian solution is to take 4000 confirmed refugees from Malaysia in place of 800 asylum seekers here who may or may not be refugees. That's why it's called offshore processing as the determination of whether someone is an official refugee or not will be done in Malaysia. Official refugees don't need to be locked away in Australian detention camps for months/years and can be placed straight into the community once they arrive.
The problem with Temporary Protection Visas was they disallowed family reunions so it actually encouraged more women and children to risk their lives on the boats. They also existed prior to the Pacific solution. They were brought in 1999 and in the next 3 years 12,000 asylum seekers arrived by boat so they hardly act as a deterrent for boat people.
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At last some sense from the Liberals.
Lib elders put heat on Abbott
Lenore Taylor and Kirsty Needham
December 21, 2011
FORMER immigration minister Philip Ruddock has added to the pressure on Tony Abbott to do a deal with Labor on asylum seekers, saying a compromise could include Labor's preferred option of processing in Malaysia if that country formalised a promise not to return refugees to countries of persecution.
And another former Howard government minister, Alexander Downer, has called for a deal, saying Mr Abbott should let his team of shadow ministers sit down and talk with government ministers to break the political impasse on offshore processing before Christmas.
''The public want the government to do something about this, when you see those people drowning - it's heart-wrenching stuff,'' Mr Downer said.
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/national/lib-elders-put-heat-on-abbott-20111220-1p40w.html#ixzz1h6VuPgKf
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Seem's like ALP hate and don't respect the UN anymore.
First it was the uranium trading with a non signature of the non proliferation treaty and now they want to send women and children to Malaysia risking the UN Refugee Convention we signed. Even the liberals have stated the Malaysia solution is to harsh and has gone to far. No wonder the party is leaking votes to the greens.
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Seem's like ALP hate and don't respect the UN anymore.
First it was the uranium trading with a non signature of the non proliferation treaty and now they want to send women and children to Malaysia risking the UN Refugee Convention we signed. Even the liberals have stated the Malaysia solution is to harsh and has gone to far. No wonder the party is leaking votes to the greens.
So, I gather you're happy to have people die in leaky boats trying to get to Austarlia?
and don't talk about Narau as a solution.
In the end 95% of people sent to Harau ended up in Austarlia or NZ.
This will not stop the boats.
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What is the solution 65?
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Seem's like ALP hate and don't respect the UN anymore.
First it was the uranium trading with a non signature of the non proliferation treaty and now they want to send women and children to Malaysia risking the UN Refugee Convention we signed. Even the liberals have stated the Malaysia solution is to harsh and has gone to far. No wonder the party is leaking votes to the greens.
So, I gather you're happy to have people die in leaky boats trying to get to Austarlia?
and don't talk about Narau as a solution.
In the end 95% of people sent to Harau ended up in Austarlia or NZ.
This will not stop the boats.
1965 claiming people are happy to see deaths because they don't agree with your policy only weakens your argument and makes you look pathetic.
The Pacific solution is a proven solution it worked the number of boats reduced. Less people was risking their lives. But ever since Rudd scraped it more boats starting to come. It was a mistake to scrap it even you must admit that 1965. ALP have no one else besides them selves to blame for bringing this back up as a national issue. It would be politically smart for ALP to accept Abbott's offer and reopen Nauru if boats keep coming then it shows it won't work and liberals are shut down but Gillard is to dumb to do that even Bowen tried to tell her to do it.
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What is the solution 65?
To blame Abbott and claim anyone whoever disagrees are happy to see people die in leaky boats.
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What is the solution 65?
Good luck with that one Cho. If it hasn't already been said by someone else, you won't hear it from 65.
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Images of Sharks & Perfect Storms all over the departure docks......
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Glad to see the old gang sticking together.
What is the solution 65?
Good luck with that one Cho. If it hasn't already been said by someone else, you won't hear it from 65.
You want a new solution that nobody else has suggested?
OK how about we send the subs out and sink every boat that comes our way.
That will stop them.
:cheers
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Glad to see the old gang sticking together.
What is the solution 65?
Good luck with that one Cho. If it hasn't already been said by someone else, you won't hear it from 65.
You want a new solution that nobody else has suggested?
OK how about we send the subs out and sink every boat that comes our way.
That will stop them.
:cheers
I think Davey has already said that... ;D
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Can I be this 'gang' ? What do I have to do?
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Stop the efiing boats ::)
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Stop the efiing boats ::)
Stop dad
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Well this is an interesting turn of events...
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/julia-gillard-bends-on-offshore-processing-of-asylum-seekers-at-nauru/story-fn7x8me2-1226228748819
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http://www.smh.com.au/national/bowen-bends-on-nauru-for-offshore-processing-20111222-1p6yj.html
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Well this is an interesting turn of events...
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/julia-gillard-bends-on-offshore-processing-of-asylum-seekers-at-nauru/story-fn7x8me2-1226228748819
No doubt Tony will still say "no" :sleep.
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No doubt tontine Bob and his merry *ahem* men in the Greens will stuff it up.
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Well this is an interesting turn of events...
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/julia-gillard-bends-on-offshore-processing-of-asylum-seekers-at-nauru/story-fn7x8me2-1226228748819
No doubt Tony will still say "no" :sleep.
:lol :lol
He actually did - he said somethng like if they keep Malaysia on the table we wont talk because if they re-open Nauru there's no need for Malaysia
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Bob Brown and his little green monsters are sending this country down the toilet. Time for them to butt out and go and play their solar powered poker machines that come with 100 free credits for asylum seekers.
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Once again Dr No has shown he is more interested in poltical point scoring than saving lives.
Word is the anti-Abbott forces within the Liberal party are gaining strength.
Abbott rules out Malaysian deal
By Alexandra Kirk, Eliza Borrello and staff
Updated December 23, 2011 10:08:50
Opposition Leader Tony Abbott has quashed fresh hopes of a breakthrough on border protection policy, saying he will not enter a deal resulting in asylum seekers being sent to Malaysia.
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Why would any leader agree to dancing with Malaysia on asylum seekers when they haven't signed the relevant UN agreement on minimum care standards? And why would we send them there if it hasn't stopped the boats earlier in the year. Madness.
At least Nauru has a better track record.
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has nauru signed the UN protocol?
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has nauru signed the UN protocol?
Yes
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has nauru signed the UN protocol?
Yes
Yep that was stitched up some time ago. All they need is some whipper snipping and a coat of paint and they will be ready for arrivals. :thumbsup
Nauru is a far superior option to Malaysia. :clapping
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Stick to the topic ppl without the side-commentary of other posters! :sleep
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All class is our Tony.
:banghead
Abbott under fire for Italian shipwreck joke
Federal Opposition Leader Tony Abbott is under fire after joking about the cruise liner disaster in which at least 11 people died off the Italian coast.
More than 20 people are still missing after the ship ran aground on rocks off the island of Giglio last Friday, and specialist divers are using explosives to blow holes in the hull in a desperate hunt for any survivors.
During an interview on Triple M radio in Adelaide this morning, Mr Abbott made light of the situation.
"This is a bit from left field mate, the captain of the Costa Concordia wants to know if you need any help with your boat policy?" the Triple M announcer said.
"Well, that was one boat that did get stopped, wasn't it," Mr Abbot replied, to laughter.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-01-20/abbott-in-stop-the-boats-gaffe/3784554
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:lol
what a champ
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Another beat up.
If you listen to the tone and context of the Q and A it was all harmless.
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It's actually not a bad solution.
Stick some blonde pooty on every boot to distract the captain into crashing.
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I'm sure the Navy will be rapt about turning unseaworthy ships around. Someone has forgotten about the whole children overboard debacle. In any case Indonesia isn't a signatory of the UN refugee convention so Abbott is willing to send sending asylum seekers to a non-signatory country which conflicts with his position and reasoning for opposing sending asylum seekers to Malaysia. The pollies once again pandering to lowest common denominator.
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Abbott is losing it.
:thumbsup
Abbott's 'send boats back' policy under attack at home and abroad
Tom Allard, Jakarta and Kirsty Needham
January 24, 2012.
TONY Abbott's plan to send back all asylum-seeker boats has drawn fire from Indonesia's police as well as the UN High Commissioner for Refugees as dangerous and in breach of international law. The expressions of alarm came a day after The Age reported former Australian Defence Force chief retired admiral Chris Barrie saying it would be close to impossible as well as expensive to send all the boats back.
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/national/abbotts-send-boats-back-policy-under-attack-at-home-and-abroad-20120123-1qe3l.html#ixzz1kJXMxjQS
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/national/abbotts-send-boats-back-policy-under-attack-at-home-and-abroad-20120123-1qe3l.html#ixzz1kJWvvKAg
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More Liberal lies.
Coalition's Nauru costings linked to caterer Kirsty Needham
February 7, 2012
The Coalition's ''secret'' costings on reopening a cut-price asylum seeker village on Nauru were provided by a logistics company, the Herald has learnt.
Eurest Support Services had the original contract to provide dining services at the Nauru centre run by the Howard government. Its parent company, Compass Group, sent representatives to Nauru last month to work on the Coalition's quote.
The opposition immigration spokesman, Scott Morrison, has claimed Nauru can be reopened and run for a third of the Immigration Department's $2 billion estimate. However, Mr Morrison had refused to identify the company that provided the Coalition's costing of $95 million to build housing for 1350 asylum seekers at an operating cost of $202.5 million a year.
The Coalition's costings contrasted sharply with Immigration Department projections that it would cost $315 million to safely build facilities for 750 people at an operational cost of $400 million a year including access to legal assistance, claims processing, security and a detention company to run the centre.
The Immigration Minister, Chris Bowen, has accused the Coalition of ''dodgy accounting''.
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/political-news/coalitions-nauru-costings-linked-to-caterer-20120206-1r1yl.html#ixzz1lekkgAmQ
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/political-news/coalitions-nauru-costings-linked-to-caterer-20120206-1r1yl.html#ixzz1leieaDXm
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You can buy any result you want
http://www.theage.com.au/national/lib-policy-costings-exposed-by-ruling-20111130-1o773.html
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No doubt the Libs are into dodgy costings.
They clearly cannot be trusted.
:lol
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Former Immigration head savages Nauru option
By Samantha Hawley and staff
A former head of the Immigration Department says Tony Abbott's plan to reopen the refugee detention centre on Nauru would be foolish and futile.
During a speech in Sydney last night, John Menadue, a former Immigration Department secretary and a former head of the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet, launched a scathing attack on the Coalition's immigration policies.
He said re-opening the detention centre on Nauru would be too expensive.
"Under the Howard government it didn't work, and will not work again in the future," he said.
"It's just futile in my view to continue ... with one-liners and slogans about Nauru.
"The Opposition has this phobia about boats. Seventy-six per cent of asylum seekers in the last decade came by air."
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-03-07/former-immigration-head-launches-attack-on-opposition/3873008
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Tony Abbot has the wrong idea on how to stop boats, what we should do is place some frigates out at sea and everytime we see these bludgers coming our way we should just sink the bastards.
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Tony Abbot has the wrong idea on how to stop boats, what we should do is place some frigates out at sea and everytime we see these bludgers coming our way we should just sink the bastards.
Agree! They can clean up the illegal fisherman while there at it :thumbsup two birds one stone ;D
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Tony Abbot has the wrong idea on how to stop boats, what we should do is place some frigates out at sea and everytime we see these bludgers coming our way we should just sink the bastards.
Pretty sure that there would have been some who held similar sentiments when your family arrived on our shores.
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Tony Abbot has the wrong idea on how to stop boats, what we should do is place some frigates out at sea and everytime we see these bludgers coming our way we should just sink the bastards.
Pretty sure that there would have been some who held similar sentiments when your family arrived on our shores.
There is a major difference as how the wogs who came out here in the 50 and 60s and how these boat people arrive now. In the 50s and the 60s when people came out they had to fill out their paperwork, they had to undergo medical tests before they arrived, they had to have a sponsor family who could provide accomodation for a minimum period and the people arriving had to have a guaranteed job to come to - thats how my mum and dad came out to Australia. They didnt come here unwelcomed- they went through the hoops and fulfilled all the criteria set out by the Australian Government. Thats a fair way different to whats happening now you's have to admit that.
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maybe not, but the bigoted, xenophobic sentiments held by the ignorant were still the same.
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Tony Abbot has the wrong idea on how to stop boats, what we should do is place some frigates out at sea and everytime we see these bludgers coming our way we should just sink the bastards.
Pretty sure that there would have been some who held similar sentiments when your family arrived on our shores.
There is a major difference as how the wogs who came out here in the 50 and 60s and how these boat people arrive now. In the 50s and the 60s when people came out they had to fill out their paperwork, they had to undergo medical tests before they arrived, they had to have a sponsor family who could provide accomodation for a minimum period and the people arriving had to have a guaranteed job to come to - thats how my mum and dad came out to Australia. They didnt come here unwelcomed- they went through the hoops and fulfilled all the criteria set out by the Australian Government. Thats a fair way different to whats happening now you's have to admit that.
Add to that they generally had an excellent work ethic and didnt rely on welfare (admittedly there was less welfare in those days) paid for by tax payers to live, to the extent that it happens today.
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Seeing as the majority of illegal boat people these days are Afghan, I'm wondering if the allied forces were to pull out of Afghanistan (which is essentially a war that cannot be won) whether it would reduce the number of asylum seekers? Personally I think it would. It worked with the Vietnamese refugees of the 70's.
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..well no war raging in a country reduces the need for people to look elsewhere to live, youd expect.
seeking refugee status, or asylum isn't illegal, though.
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Tony Abbot has the wrong idea on how to stop boats, what we should do is place some frigates out at sea and everytime we see these bludgers coming our way we should just sink the bastards.
Pretty sure that there would have been some who held similar sentiments when your family arrived on our shores.
There is a major difference as how the wogs who came out here in the 50 and 60s and how these boat people arrive now. In the 50s and the 60s when people came out they had to fill out their paperwork, they had to undergo medical tests before they arrived, they had to have a sponsor family who could provide accomodation for a minimum period and the people arriving had to have a guaranteed job to come to - thats how my mum and dad came out to Australia. They didnt come here unwelcomed- they went through the hoops and fulfilled all the criteria set out by the Australian Government. Thats a fair way different to whats happening now you's have to admit that.
Only told they were wogs and dagoes who should go back to where they came from. Yep very welcomed to Australia Ramps :lol. My Italian grandparent's shop was even firebombed once :help. The more things change they more they remain the same. It's always the latest wave of immigrants that cop all the crap.
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Tony Abbot has the wrong idea on how to stop boats, what we should do is place some frigates out at sea and everytime we see these bludgers coming our way we should just sink the bastards.
Pretty sure that there would have been some who held similar sentiments when your family arrived on our shores.
There is a major difference as how the wogs who came out here in the 50 and 60s and how these boat people arrive now. In the 50s and the 60s when people came out they had to fill out their paperwork, they had to undergo medical tests before they arrived, they had to have a sponsor family who could provide accomodation for a minimum period and the people arriving had to have a guaranteed job to come to - thats how my mum and dad came out to Australia. They didnt come here unwelcomed- they went through the hoops and fulfilled all the criteria set out by the Australian Government. Thats a fair way different to whats happening now you's have to admit that.
Only told they were wogs and dagoes who should go back to where they came from. Yep very welcomed to Australia Ramps :lol. My Italian grandparent's shop was even firebombed once :help. The more things change they more they remain the same. It's always the latest wave of immigrants that cop all the crap.
All immigrants cop crap. Even 2nd and 3rd generation wogs still cop crap but in the end theres a difference again between how we all assimilated and the newbies of today who dont want to assimilate. Italians came from a european catholic christian background, greeks came from a european chritian orthodox tradition. Australia is a christian country - that should be the basis as to who should get in.
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before the wogs came we were a white country, and many believed that should be the basis on who gets in.
what's the difference?
if we take irish Christians, which do we take? the protestants or the catholics.? The effers hate each other.
Y'know my grandmother refused to go to my brothers wedding because he married a catholic. :wallywink
bigotry is bigotry, no matter what it is based on
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So who is the bigot? The person that refuses to assimilate or the person it pi55es off?
Too much of a bullsh!t argument really .......
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So who is the bigot? The person that refuses to assimilate or the person it pi55es off?
Too much of a bullpoo argument really .......
Well said CUB. :clapping :clapping I think it all depends on who the media focuses on at the time.
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So who is the bigot? The person that refuses to assimilate or the person it pi55es off?
Too much of a bullpoo argument really .......
Well said CUB. :clapping :clapping I think it all depends on who the media focuses on at the time.
I reckon you're on the money tiga (sadly)
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ASYLUM MYTH REVEALED: Boat numbers are actually falling
Mar 27, 2012 3:03pm
THE number of asylum seekers who came to Australia last year fell by nearly 10 per cent, the UN's refugee agency reported today.
That showed the numbers of refugee applicants arriving here was "modest - and certainly manageable," according to the United Nations' High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR).
World-wide there was a 20 per cent increase in the number of people looking for havens in the 44 industrialised nations surveyed by the UNHCR.
The fall-off in Australian numbers was "largely due to a reduction in the number of people coming to Australia by boat," according to the UNHCR.
"This report shows clearly that the numbers of asylum-seekers coming to Australia are modest - and certainly manageable - when compared to many other industrialised countries," UNHCR regional representative Richard Towle said.
http://www.optuszoo.com.au/news/top/news-com-au/asylum-myth-revealed-boat-numbers-are-actually-falling/626096
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What if aliens substituted our government with idiots, and we're all just part of a massive tv program to see how long it takes to figure it out?
What if we are all wacko but we are too unintelligent to know?
What if the first humans were super smart and the reason we are so dumb is because we are all inbred?
What if what we are living is so stuffed up because its an alternate reality to the real world?
What if we cant walk through mirrors only because our reflection is in the way?
What if every time we have déjà vu, its because we actually died and we have just reincarnated to the last save point?
What if all the animals talk the same language and were the odd ones out?
What if you are the only person that exists, and everyone else is a robot?
What if you are in the process of dying, and your life you live is simply flashing before your eyes?
What if in an alternate world, girls hump guys, poot tastes good and hamburgers eat people?
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What if in an alternate world, girls hump guys, poot tastes good and hamburgers eat people?
Love Japan. Great country :thumbsup
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What if aliens substituted our government with idiots, and we're all just part of a massive tv program to see how long it takes to figure it out?
What if we are all fooled but we are too unintelligent to know? This is correct
What if the first humans were super smart and the reason we are so dumb is because we are all inbred? according to the bible, this is probably true
What if what we are living is so stuffed up because its an alternate reality to the real world?
What if we cant walk through mirrors only because our reflection is in the way?
What if every time we have déjà vu, its because we actually died and we have just reincarnated to the last save point?
What if all the animals talk the same language and were the odd ones out? This is definitely true
What if you are the only person that exists, and everyone else is a robot?
What if you are in the process of dying, and your life you live is simply flashing before your eyes?
What if in an alternate world, girls hump guys, poot tastes good and hamburgers eat people?
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we make everything too complicated and drawn out these days.
The whole immigration policy could so much simpler;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PfDro1UGUo
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:lol
havent seen that for years
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Funny how this whole debate has gone quiet since we started processing on-shore.
:thumbsup
'65 (from sunny Queenstown NZ)
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funny how labor goes from one crisis to the next hey 65. who you guys gonna get for a speaker next ;D
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apparently the bloke making the complaint is also suing the commonwealth because he made similar complaints about slipper 8 or 9 years ago and howard govt did nothing.
Wilke is about to get his payback for the way he was shafted over his pokie reforms when slipper was appointed.
they all should be be shot and then we can start again
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Trouble in Tony's paradise?
Liberal MP calls for rethink on Malaysian solution
By chief political correspondent Simon Cullen
Posted June 22, 2012 14:25:55
All options, including the Malaysian solution, need to be reconsidered as part of a renewed effort at shutting down the people smuggling trade, according to Federal Liberal backbencher Mal Washer.
Dr Washer's comments come amid the unfolding tragedy north of Christmas Island, where dozens of asylum seekers are feared to have drowned after their boat capsized.
Prime Minister Julia Gillard and Opposition Leader Tony Abbott have both declared it is too early to talk about border protection policies, and the focus should be on rescuing those still in the water.
The latest tragedy will increase pressure on the major parties to try to end the stalemate over offshore processing and find a solution to the issue of boat arrivals.
The Coalition has argued strongly against Labor's proposed Malaysia deal, describing it as "bad policy" that will not work. They have instead insisted the Government restore the Howard government's policies, including reopening the detention centre on Nauru.
But Dr Washer says all options should be on the table.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-06-22/opposition-mp-flags-malaysian-solution/4086976
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The most sensible article written on the issue. If Tony is convinced the Labor Malaysian solution won't work, then pass it and watch it fail.
Sound-bite diplomacy no solution to asylum seeker quandary
Michael Gordon.
The impasse over boat people casts no credit on our politicians.
THERE is a simple way to end the impasse on asylum seeker policy, but Tony Abbott and his immigration spokesman refuse to embrace it. Why?
They say the so-called Malaysian solution won't work because the cap of 800 asylum seekers will be exceeded before the opposition leader can pump up the tyres on his bike. They say it won't work because conniving people smugglers will fill their boats with children, who will not be sent to Malaysia under the controversial people-swap arrangement. They say the 800 sent back to Malaysia will simply make their way back to Indonesia and jump on another boat.
If they are right - and they may be - the policy the government insists will deter people from risking their lives on leaky boats will be exposed as a cruel fraud within a matter of weeks.
The plan is predicated on the belief that the number of people prepared to hand their life savings to people smugglers will shrink to a trickle after the first couple of plane loads from Christmas Island touch down in Kuala Lumpur.
If this doesn't happen, assuming Prime Minister Julia Gillard remains committed to the deterrent-value of offshore processing, there would be no reason not to embrace the Abbott alternative.
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/soundbite-diplomacy-no-solution-to-asylum-seeker-quandary-20120626-210cu.html#ixzz1yvJMUo8m
edited to correct spelling
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Am I the only one who cares about this?
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Am I the only one who cares about this?
Oakshotts amended bill got passed in the Lower House
But will get defeated tomorrow in the senate and we still have the same problem = we go around in circles once more
In answer to your question I think some people do some don't. People have views perhaps they just don't want to discuss them.
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I have a view......as long as the boats don't get to Tasmania who gives a Rats :cheers
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But will get defeated tomorrow in the senate and we still have the same problem = we go around in circles once more
Spot on WP. It's not in Abbott's political interests to see it through pass through the Senate tomorrow so it won't. As you say around in circles we go.
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As many know I am a Greens voter and voted Democrat back in the Don Chipp days but...
If the Greens put principles before the lives of aslyum seekers I will never vote Green again.
:banghead
The current law has a 12 month sunset clause so if it doesn't work then it can be thrown out and the Labor and Liberal parties can take their various policies to an election.
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Am I the only one who cares about this?
I had this conversation yesterday with a group of friends and we decided that there's two groups - one that would like to see the asylum seeker boats sink to the bottom of the ocean and the ASs eaten by sharks and the rest who are two scared to voice their concerns because of the racist element in this country who would lay into them if they did.
I'm not afraid to say what I think.
I think people who could wish babies, women etc to drown at sea are despicable people, and an opposition party that wouldn't try its darndest to try and reach a resolution by refusing to even discuss the issue is not a party I would support.
I think the whole last week has been a blight on our country, it's lack of morals and integrity and total lack of compassion.
You lose your compassion for people and life, you may as well shoot yourself in the head because you're just a walking, talking zombie..
To answer your question, no, you are not alone.
But the chatter is definitely very quiet on this issue and you have to wonder why.
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As many know I am a Greens voter and voted Democrat back in the Don Chipp days but...
If the Greens put principles before the lives of aslyum seekers I will never vote Green again.
:banghead
The current law has a 12 month sunset clause so if it doesn't work then it can be thrown out and the Labor and Liberal parties can take their various policies to an election.
Then I don't thnk you will be voting Green again
They will not change their stand on this so this bill will get defeated just like the Coalition wont change theirs because it doesn't suit thier political purpose at this time.
HAve to say we have a bunch of cowards up in Canberra these days
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There is another boat in distress this morning :huh
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Seem's like I am the odd one out here who doesn't agree with Gillard's human swap deal with a country that isn't a signed UNHCR country.
Also Malaysia is nothing more than a band-aid solution which wouldn't even last a month. The deal is to transfer 800 people. In May alone we had more than 1,100 arrivals.
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Seem's like I am the odd one out here who doesn't agree with Gillard's human swap deal with a country that isn't a signed UNHCR country.
Also Malaysia is nothing more than a band-aid solution which wouldn't even last a month. The deal is to transfer 800 people. In May alone we had more than 1,100 arrivals.
Can I ask did you support the Nairu (sp?) when the Howard Govt introduced that? Reason I ask is because at the time that legislation was introduced Nairu hadn't signed the UNHCR either but that seems to have been forgotten (Abbott actually refused to answer a question about it a few days ago).
I find it staggering that coalition pollies are playing the UNHCR card when they had no issue with a country not being signed to it previously when they needed Nairu.
While Maylaysia seems like a band aid solution we need to something now!
And also don't forget that on top of Maylasia this amended legislation also allows for off shore processing in Nairu, the govt said they will re-open it and I dont believe they can afford not to
Bottom line none of them should be playing politics or trying to score points or win votes on this. They just need to do something.
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Seem's like I am the odd one out here who doesn't agree with Gillard's human swap deal with a country that isn't a signed UNHCR country.
Also Malaysia is nothing more than a band-aid solution which wouldn't even last a month. The deal is to transfer 800 people. In May alone we had more than 1,100 arrivals.
The people swapping exercise is another disgrace. The country doesnt have any leadership at all at these times. We need real leaders to work this out.
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As for WP's question on Nairu - whilst they are/were not a signatury to UN the reality is Australia as a country can exercise its will on Nairu, if we send people to Malaysia we get no say because the Malaysians hate us.
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The people swapping exercise is another disgrace. The country doesnt have any leadership at all at these times. We need real leaders to work this out.
Would say their is a distinct lake of leadership on both sides of politics on this issue
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Senate has rejected the bill. Back to square one ::).
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Okay
A solution from left field.
The asylum seekers are heading for one of three destinations, Christmas island, the Cocos islands or Ashmore reef.
All of which are relatively close to Indonesia.
The solution is quite simple, move the inhabitants of the islands to the mainland and then send in the B52s and flatten the island and the reef so they sink into the Indian ocean.
The trip to Australian territory then becomes so great as to deter anybody.
:thumbsup
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Senate has rejected the bill. Back to square one ::).
Yep every single pollie and I mean every one of them should hang their collective heads in shame
They could have fixed this today but refused to do so
Poor leadership from those controlling the senate, they made it about Politics and not about fixing this mess
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If we're going with the crazy and absurb '65 then get the Aust. Govt. to become people smugglers and fly the asylum seekers in while getting paid to do it. No more boats :wallywink.
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If we're going with the crazy and absurb '65 then get the Aust. Govt. to become people smugglers and fly the asylum seekers in while getting paid to do it. No more boats :wallywink.
Now you have just made me very mad.
:banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead
Why didn't I think of that.
:bow to MT
Seriously the 6 week winter break has come at a good time.
How many games can we win in the next six weeks?
Stuff the people who die at sea, Conca getting dropped is far more important.
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Stop the boats.
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When Gillard first replaced Rudd she should of put Abbott's Nauru solution in place. I don't think it would of stopped the boats so sooner she proves that the sooner her policy has a better chance. But she seems to stubborn to cave in even when she has nothing to lose. She needs a game changer(working policy people actually support) to win back voters or to prove Abbott's policies won't fix the problem.
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:sleep
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When Gillard first replaced Rudd she should of put Abbott's Nauru solution in place. I don't think it would of stopped the boats so sooner she proves that the sooner her policy has a better chance. But she seems to stubborn to cave in even when she has nothing to lose. She needs a game changer(working policy people actually support) to win back voters or to prove Abbott's policies won't fix the problem.
Well that is exactly what happened.
Tony has won the battle but 12 months hence the great unwashed will have forgotten and Julia might just win the war.
Good economic record, no more boats to stop, and "the great big new tax on everything" a complete non-issue (just like the GST).
Industrial relations is the big sleeper in the next election.
:thumbsup
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The off-shore processing legislation has passed both houses.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/offshore-asylum-laws-through-parliament/story-fndo48ca-1226451444495
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The off-shore processing legislation has passed both houses.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/offshore-asylum-laws-through-parliament/story-fndo48ca-1226451444495
:veryhappy
Hopefully now people will stop dying trying to get to Oz on leaky boats.
And it will put this issue to bed.
No carbon tax disaster and no more boats, people might actually start looking at Tony Abbott.
:thumbsup
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The off-shore processing legislation has passed both houses.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/offshore-asylum-laws-through-parliament/story-fndo48ca-1226451444495
:veryhappy
Hopefully now people will stop dying trying to get to Oz on leaky boats.
And it will put this issue to bed.
No carbon tax disaster and no more boats, people might actually start looking at Tony Abbott.
:thumbsup
You dont honestly believe that Gillard has any chance at the next election. She's no hope. I know Labor Party members who have been members of the party for years who are gonna vote for Abbott. Gillards the worst Prime Minister in Australian history.
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....not for long
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The off-shore processing legislation has passed both houses.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/offshore-asylum-laws-through-parliament/story-fndo48ca-1226451444495
:veryhappy
Hopefully now people will stop dying trying to get to Oz on leaky boats.
And it will put this issue to bed.
No carbon tax disaster and no more boats, people might actually start looking at Tony Abbott.
:thumbsup
You dont honestly believe that Gillard has any chance at the next election. She's no hope. I know Labor Party members who have been members of the party for years who are gonna vote for Abbott. Gillards the worst Prime Minister in Australian history.
All about minimising the damage.
You lot deserve Abbott.
I will bring this thread back to life once Abbott shows his true colours.
I still can't understand how intelligent people are sucked in by his BS.
:cheers
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Stop the boats
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Forget the boat people what are we going to do about the bloody Kiwis?
:lol
54,000 refugees, no questions asked
August 22, 2012
AUSTRALIA is facing a flood of economic refugees. But the big numbers aren't from the north, they are from the across the Tasman where Statistics New Zealand yesterday announced the biggest exodus to Australia on record.
An extraordinary 53,900 New Zealanders moved to Australia in the year to July - around the entire population of New Plymouth, New Zealand's 11th biggest city.
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/political-news/54000-refugees-no-questions-asked-20120821-24kpb.html#ixzz24E423NH0
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We won't help Abbott turn back boats: Indonesia
Date June 1, 2013 David Wroe
Indonesia has said in its clearest terms yet that it would not work with a future Abbott government on the Coalition's vow to turn back asylum-seeker boats.
The country's ambassador to Australia, Nadjib Riphat Kesoema, said in Canberra on Friday that, as a transit country, Indonesia was also ''a victim of the situation'' and would probably not collaborate with the Coalition on such an approach.
''So I think it's not possible for the Coalition to say that it [the flow of boats] has to go … back to Indonesia, because Indonesia is not the origin country of these people,'' he said.
''We don't know the situation ahead of us right now but I think … no such collaboration will happen between Indonesia and Australia … I don't think that it will happen.''
Opposition Leader Tony Abbott has steadfastly maintained that a key plank of his asylum-seeker policy would be to have the navy turn back boats when it is safe to do so.
Present and former navy officers have warned that such an approach could be dangerous because asylum seekers might try to scuttle the boats on which they were travelling. And Indonesian officials have also consistently taken a dim view of the proposal.
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/political-news/we-wont-help-abbott-turn-back-boats-indonesia-20130531-2nhgx.html#ixzz2UtnhJntR
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The off-shore processing legislation has passed both houses.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/offshore-asylum-laws-through-parliament/story-fndo48ca-1226451444495
:veryhappy
Hopefully now people will stop dying trying to get to Oz on leaky boats.
And it will put this issue to bed.
No carbon tax disaster and no more boats, people might actually start looking at Tony Abbott.
:thumbsup
You dont honestly believe that Gillard has any chance at the next election. She's no hope. I know Labor Party members who have been members of the party for years who are gonna vote for Abbott. Gillards the worst Prime Minister in Australian history.
All about minimising the damage.
You lot deserve Abbott.
I will bring this thread back to life once Abbott shows his true colours.
I still can't understand how intelligent people are sucked in by his BS.
:cheers
No one likes Gillard. She just irritates people. Too many mistakes and too many fiascos by her government. The last 6 months have been better ie. DisabilityCare but overall her government is a failure and her Prime Ministership has been farcical.
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No one likes Gillard. She just irritates people. Too many mistakes and too many fiascos by her government. The last 6 months have been better ie. DisabilityCare but overall her government is a failure and her Prime Ministership has been farcical.
How about the NBN?
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meet the new boss same as the old boss
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NBN yeah great idea that. Wasting billions of dollars feeding into homes that don't need it.
The latest thing with gambling has been one of the the best things she has done, forcing flogs like Waterhouse to pipe down with his in ur face advertising.
Waterhouse says "I listened to the people" absolute BS it was because of Gillards government that forced him into culling his TV crap.
Good on her but sadly for her it's too little too late.
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NBN yeah great idea that. Wasting billions of dollars feeding into homes that don't need it.
a report just released by cisco expects australia's usage to be 755 Petabytes (1048576 gb) per month by 2017 . the biggest forecast increase is in video usage, but not so much homes downloading movies. Health, education and security are expected to see the bulk of this increase. there is so much more to internet usage than pirating movies and slagging off on interweb forums.
The NBN will future proof Australia's communication network - at this point in time we cant send enough data to reach fiber optics limit. It's not so much about speed, but bandwidth. Mr Rabbit himself admitted, actually he complained :huh, it would be 50 years before the NBN reached capacity. Theres a good chance it may even be longer, as no one is really sure what the limits are.
The coalition on the other hand want to spend millions building the equivalent of the old South Eastern - Mulgrave freeways, and like that debacle, it will ultimately cost more to fix the bottlenecks than the original project, much more.
That is the serious waste of money. In all honesty, they would be much better doing nothing than spending millions on a half arsed job.
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Well said Al
:cheers
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Australia cant afford it. Gillard and her mates have left us in mire of national debt. Its a disgrace. We are $350 Billion down the crapier because of them and facing enormous budget deficits well into the future. They peeed the biggest commodity boom in the history down the dunny. Absolutely shameful.
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Disgraceful effort and hopefully wont be seen in govt for 20 years or so
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Abbott's turn back the boats policy seems doomed.
:lol
Jakarta spurns Abbott's turn-back-boats plan
Indonesia has delivered a rebuke to Tony Abbott's turn-back-the-boats policy, signing a communique warning against unilateral action.
The communique, signed by Prime Minister Kevin Rudd and Indonesian President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, reinforces both countries' emphasis on regional solutions to people smuggling.
''They stressed the importance of avoiding unilateral actions which might jeopardise such a comprehensive regional approach and which might cause operational or other difficulties to any party,'' the communique said.
After the leaders met on Friday, Dr Yudhoyono stressed that the asylum seeker issue was not just a problem for Australia.
"Indonesia also receives thousands of boat people … we have to manage this inflow and at the same time, if we are the only ones solving this issue, it will not be fair," he said.
They were the strongest comments yet from the Indonesian President on the subject, and they appear to be aimed at the Australian Opposition Leader, who has said if it wins the coming election the Coalition would have a Jakarta, not Geneva, focus, and that his relationship with the Indonesians meant they would accept his turn-back-the-boats policy.
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/jakarta-spurns-abbotts-turnbackboats-plan-20130705-2phlj.html#ixzz2YCGNFluQ
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Worth a read...
We missed the immigration boat once, so now we must be nimble
by: Tony Burke
From: The Australian
July 06, 2013 12:00AM
I SUSPECT there's not a single person in Australia who can walk down the main streets of Campsie or Lakemba and read every sign on the shopfronts.
The area where I've always lived is the heart of multiculturalism in Australia.
They are communities that work brilliantly in Sydney, made up of people from different cultures where a similar mix has often not worked in other parts of the world.
People often presume in a community like mine that the attitudes towards immigration will be significantly different to those in other parts of Australia.
Nothing could be further from truth. There are many millions of movements in and out of Australia each year through the immigration system. Overwhelmingly, people work within the rules and abide by those rules appropriately.
The frustration often expressed about the actions of people-smugglers in areas in Australia with very little diversity is not much different to what you have in a community of great diversity.
It's true there are many people who are now strong members of my local community who arrived on boats. Some are of Vietnamese background and some have arrived more recently.
But, without exception, the responses I receive are about there being a clear preference for the system to work as it is meant to work. No one has any sympathy for processes that create an incentive for people to risk their lives on the high seas.
That's why - since becoming Immigration Minister this week - I thought it was essential to be completely upfront about what Labor got right and wrong and what the Coalition has got right and wrong in this area of policy.
This is a policy issue that needs to be dealt with professionally and sensibly. That means you can't start a conversation with the political one-liners; it has to start with an honest appraisal.
Despite the claims from the opposition, the softening of John Howard's policies in 2001 began not with Labor but with Howard's government.
The reforms largely credited to Petro Georgiou led to the beginning of the softening of immigration rules and occurred with the support of the Labor Party.
A similar process continued when we came to government and it occurred largely with the support of the Liberal Party.
In 2009 the international situation changed markedly. More people started moving around the world, in particular from Sri Lanka, Afghanistan and Iraq, seeking a new life in other countries.
It was at that point Australia needed to adjust its immigration settings. We didn't and we should have. I was a member of the cabinet and I own that decision as much as anyone else.
Some months later, with Chris Bowen as immigration minister, we put forward an appropriate new response that would have dealt with the challenge that was facing us right then. This was the Malaysia agreement.
I have absolutely no doubt that had that agreement gained bipartisan support from the Coalition, similar to the bipartisan support we had offered Howard with the 2001 reforms, we would not be seeing the challenges in the Indian Ocean that we facing right now.
At that point, the Liberal Party made a decision that was clearly against Australia's national interest. The outcome is plain for all to see and should result in the Liberal Party giving as honest an appraisal of its behaviour as I've given of our failure to act in 2009.
When the debate gets beyond the slogans, it's clear that you can be a strong supporter, as I am, of multicultural Australia and still want to make sure that our immigration system is orderly and the rules are being adhered to.
Perhaps the greatest frustration in an electorate such as mine is when people who do not live in an area of such diversity try to claim that attempts to challenge people-smuggling operations are somehow disrespectful to people from diverse backgrounds.
I'll never forget one day when my electorate office had about 15 people sitting in my conference room in a large circle.
All had received mobile phone calls from relatives at the time a boat was boarded in Indonesia. It was then many weeks later and they had not heard from their relatives again. Australia had no knowledge of what happened to these people and to this day we still don't know.
The cost is real; the loss is real. When we didn't act as quickly as we might have in 2009, we missed an opportunity.
When the Liberal Party teamed up with the Greens to oppose the Malaysia agreement they missed a similar opportunity. The gravity of the loss can be understood only when you sit face-to-face with the relatives of those who will never be seen again.
This policy area is hard. It deserves to be handled by someone who is prepared to be professional, responsible and firm. It also deserves a government willing to constantly adapt in order to anticipate and match the next actions that people-smugglers will engage in.
People-smuggling operators are constantly varying their actions to find new loopholes in the law. In the same way, Australia needs to be nimble and adapt its policy constantly. We've learned that we can't freeze our policy settings in time.
Similarly, it would be grossly naive to simply photocopy the policy settings of the Howard government from 2001 and think they would work in a modern context.
As long as politics and slogans dominate the debate, Australia is at a disadvantage. The modern Australia that I love is the multicultural Australia that has always been my home; it deserves nothing less than a sensible debate based on facts.
We owe it to the strength of a multicultural nation and we owe it to the family members who otherwise face tragedy.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/we-missed-the-immigration-boat-once-so-now-we-must-be-nimble/story-e6frg6zo-1226675059127
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Me I think this boat issue is really a non issue..it takes way too much media space...the only part of this issue that concerns me is when people lose their lives
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What do people thick of Tony's plan to declare war on asylum seekers?
Tony Abbott's military-led asylum seeker operation won't work
July 26, 2013 - 10:08AM
Jonathan Swan
National political reporter
Tony Abbott's military-led response to combat people smuggling is misguided policy and will change nothing, according to the chief of Australia's defence force under John Howard.
''I can't see it making any difference at all,'' said retired Rear Admiral Chris Barrie when asked on ABC radio about the Opposition Leader's determination to appoint a three star military commander to ''stop the boats''
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/tony-abbotts-militaryled-asylum-seeker-operation-wont-work-20130726-2qo8c.html#ixzz2a6feuQUg
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Let them in FFS
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Let them in FFS
All 15.4 million of them?
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yes
lots of room
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yes
lots of room
:lol
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another Age editorial
This 'no boats' plan has no substance
Date July 26, 2013
For as long as the Coalition has been saying it would "stop the boats" – and that has been a long time – it has been challenged to explain exactly how it would go about doing so. And every time the question has been raised, Coalition leader Tony Abbott and immigration spokesman Scott Morrison have said the strategy of turning asylum-seeker boats away had worked previously, and it would work again. Instead of directly addressing the logistics of turning back boats, the pair would launch into an attack aimed at the Labor government, or talk in loops about "the boats" and "these people". Their policy was a mind-numbing chain of slogans.
Now, however, after Prime Minister Kevin Rudd abruptly unveiled a hardline proposal to permanently resettle in Papua New Guinea every person arriving by boat, the Coalition has been forced to say something more tangible about whatever cunning plan it has in mind. In a dramatic flourish, it unveiled Operation Sovereign Borders, touted as a "military-led response to combat people-smuggling and protect our borders". It is dressed in all the language and theatrics of war, elevating the issue of asylum seekers to nothing short of a "national emergency". Its title conjures visions of noble sacrifice and flag-waving triumphalism, and its message is identical to John Howard's cynical rhetoric of 2001: "We will decide who comes to this country and the circumstances in which they come." Indeed, this quote is recited verbatim in the Coalition's 19-page promotional package. That same pamphlet bears several bright red bar-charts, and at the back is a map of the world emblazoned with slashing red arrows all pointing at Australia in the style of 1950s and '60s propaganda. This country is depicted as some kind of target for invading hordes. It is both laughable and grossly insulting.
Yet this latest offering of Coalition policy on asylum seekers amounts to little more than a reorganisation of the bureaucracy supporting border protection. It might sate the egos of some public servants and old-guard defence personnel who fret about their relevancy but, in itself, it does nothing to snuff out the odious industry of people-smuggling. Nor does it tackle the multiple practical and diplomatic obstacles inherent in a policy of turning boats away.
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/comment/the-age-editorial/this-no-boats-plan-has-no-substance-20130726-2qqce.html#ixzz2aZk88x4x
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yes
lots of room
:lol
Not unrealistic
desalination planet plus pipes
Nuke or big solar panel
Make a new city in sand in wa or sa
Russia does it
Another example http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astana
$$ just need vision 8)
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Just need a dirty great big fence all the way around to stop the boat people leaving.
:help
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Can ask Israel for help - as they are expert
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Looks like the PNG solution might be working.
:thumbsup
Drop-off in boat arrivals
Date August 8, 2013
Bianca Hall and David Wroe
Tough policies preventing settlement in Australia appear to be deterring asylum seekers, with signs of boat arrivals tapering off and reports of people demanding refunds from people smugglers.
Immigration Minister Tony Burke said on Wednesday that large numbers of asylum seekers who had paid upfront for passage to Australia were demanding their money back from smugglers.
And a senior Defence source said that arrivals appeared to be tapering off since Prime Minister Kevin Rudd announced his hardline solution of sending asylum seekers to Papua New Guinea.
One asylum seeker in Indonesia told Fairfax Media that people smugglers could now find ''hardly any'' people willing to board their boats.
Boat arrivals have been down about a quarter since Mr Rudd announced the PNG plan. But that includes a massive spike in the week after the plan was announced, with about 1250 arrivals in those seven days, including six boats with nearly 500 passengers in one day.
The following week there were fewer than 400 arrivals and in the six days since then there have been about 360 arrivals.
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2013/dropoff-in-boat-arrivals-20130807-2rgur.html#ixzz2bJialIku
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Asylum seekers asking people smugglers for their money back because of PNG policy
By Indonesia correspondent Helen Brown
Asylum seekers in Indonesia have confirmed that some of them are asking people smugglers for their money back because of Australia's new PNG policy.
Australia has signed a memorandum of understanding (MOU) with Papua New Guinea to send asylum seekers to PNG to be processed and resettled there if they are found to be refugees.
News of the policy has reached Cisaura, in West Java, home to some of the thousands of asylum seekers stuck in Indonesia.
Young Afghan men talk of the change in policy but say they are still considering going by boat after being told by people smuggling agents that their cases will have to be accepted by Australia.
Several Iranians, meantime, are reportedly preparing to return back to their country, not willing to take the risk of ending up in PNG.
Others, however, have simply asked for their money back.
The Australian Government says its harsh new policy is having an impact.
On Tuesday, Immigration Minister Tony Burke watched on as PNG's foreign minister, Rimbink Pato, signed the MOU document at a small ceremony in Port Moresby.
Mr Burke said there could now be no doubt about the legally-binding nature of the agreement between the two countries.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-08-09/asylum-seekers-smugglers-refunds-png-manus/4875078
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One way to stop the boats is to make them watch "Jaws" on high rotation in the days before they set sail in those dangerously crappy boats. I can imagine them all screaming down at the dock "We're going to need a bigger boat!! We're going to need a bigger boat!!!"
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AFP arrests 5 alleged people smugglers during dawn raids in three states
A series of raids nationwide by the Australian Federal Police (AFP) has netted several key people suspected of involvement in people smuggling in Australia and overseas.
The arrests of five men - from Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iran - during series of dawn raid across Victoria, South Australia and New South Wales came after a 12-month operation involving more than 100 officers, the AFP's national operations manager, Assistant Commissioner Steve Lancaster, told a news conference this morning.
Mr Lancaster says the arrests involved "key players" in several major offshore smuggling syndicates who were "actively involved" in recruiting and financing people smuggling to Australia.
Those arrested had allegedly been involved in planning and facilitating the arrival of up to 132 vessels bound for Australia, he said.
Operation Delfinium, which received hundreds of tip-offs from the community, would likely lead to more arrests and should serve as a warning to those involved in people smuggling, he added.
"There are two clear messages here that I would like to come out today: one from a disruption perspective, today's actions will have an impact," Mr Lancaster said.
"It will impact on those that are involved in those syndicates, no doubt, and [the arrests] will guarantee there will be further arrests made.
"From a deterrence perspective, this is not the end. If you are involved or you were involved in people smuggling, with the current intelligence we held and with intelligence that we have received from over 200 members of the community, it is likely that if you are a significant people smuggling organiser that you are likely to be known by us.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-08-29/asylum-seekers-human-trafficking-boatpeople/4920904
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Coalition's plan to buy the boats a 'crazy' policy that will not save lives or money
Date September 2, 2013
Jonathan Pearlman, Peter Martin
The claim
"Buy the Boats" has joined "Stop the Boats".
The Coalition wants to work with Indonesian police and an international partner to buy unsafe fishing boats. Spokesman Scott Morrison wants "the option to be able to get that boat before the people smuggler does and stop that boat from leaving Indonesia".
"That saves lives, it saves the taxpayers' money ultimately," he told a Darwin press conference.
It would, if it worked. If it didn't, it would waste money.
Does it stack up?
Indonesia has the world's fourth-largest coastline. Its fishing industry employs 6 million people. Fishing accounts for 5 per cent of its GDP. In 2004 the United Nations counted 729,682 boats in Indonesia. That number has risen.
Dr Sam Bateman, a retired Australian Navy commodore now at the Australian National Centre for Ocean Resources & Security, says it's not "a particularly bright idea".
"It is so open to abuse. What is a fair price for a boat?" he asks.
Morrison told PolitiFact he wasn't proposing wholesale purchases, but rather "targeted intelligence-led buybacks".
His policy has been put forward without the support of Indonesian authorities. Mahfudz Siddiq, the head of Indonesia's parliamentary commission for foreign affairs, says the plan is "crazy" and "degrading".
Dr Christopher Roberts of the ANU National Security College doubts whether it is feasible "in terms of implementation, let alone an agreement with the Indonesian side".
"Do people smugglers come forward and say 'please buy my boat'? It would need a lot of money when people smugglers can put 100 people on a boat at $5000 a person."
He says some analysts have labelled Kevin Rudd's plan to resettle all boat people in Papua New Guinea a "39-day policy" – an unworkable election fix. Morrison's might be labelled a "15-day policy".
On ABC's Insiders on Sunday Tony Abbott conceded it was possible the Coalition would never buy a single boat from Indonesia.
Finding
Morrison says buying Indonesian boats would save lives and save taxpayers' money. There's no evidence to support the contention.
A PolitiFact rating of ''pants on fire" applies where a statement is not accurate and makes a ridiculous claim.
PolitiFact rates Morrison's claim "pants on fire
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2013/coalitions-plan-to-buy-the-boats-a-crazy-policy-that-will-not-save-lives-or-money-20130901-2syzu.html#ixzz2dgl3rDRL
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No one cares 65. Labor did such a bad job over the past 5 years it doesnt matter anymore. Abbotts going to win.
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Stop the boats.
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The Libs are cutting $4.5 billion from foreign aid and up to $1 billion from aid to Indonesia.
No mention of PNG but similar cuts will happen there.
There goes any chance of Abbott being able to "Stop the Boats".
Don't be fooled by this prick.
Coalition figures clear as mud
Federal Election 2013 Date September 6, 2013
Tim Colebatch
So the poor will pay. Having already targeted local battlers and refugees to pay for new spending and tax cuts, the Coalition has now targeted the world's poor - cutting $4.5 billion from future development aid.
Under its formula, Indonesia alone stands to lose $100 million this year, and up to $1 billion over the next four years. This will not help Tony Abbott's chances of getting the Indonesian co-operation he needs to stop the boats.
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2013/coalition-figures-clear-as-mud-20130905-2t85s.html#ixzz2e2v8LNpf
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Unlike being fooled by the 2 worst pricks this country has ever had as prime minister.
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Unlike being fooled by the 2 worst pricks this country has ever had as prime minister.
We might resume this conversation in a couple of months.
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:thumbsup
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Looking forward to Saturday because its the only time when you can get a sausage sizzle without having to go to Bunnings where I always seem to spend a frikkin fortune.
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Looking forward to Saturday because its the only time when you can get a sausage sizzle without having to go to Bunnings where I always seem to spend a frikkin fortune.
I have to make an excuse to not vote with the wife.
That's when I get to partake.
:cheers
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Looking forward to Saturday because its the only time when you can get a sausage sizzle without having to go to Bunnings where I always seem to spend a frikkin fortune.
I have to make an excuse to not vote with the wife.
That's when I get to partake.
:cheers
Got to the booth too early no snags ready when I left.
:(
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You guys must vote at upper class booths - I've never struck a sausage sizzle at any booths I have ever voted at, although there was a cake stall at a couple. :'(
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Voted at 8am and we had Sausage sizzle, Ice Cream Van, trinket stalls, Espresso Coffee truck, Plant sale and even a Mime or two! Jealous Smokey?? :lol
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:P :P :P :P :P :P
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Tony couldn't find a a three star general he got a two star one and promoted him.
And he hasn't stopped the boats yet.
:lol
Two-star veteran Angus Campbell promoted to run border protection
Deputy Chief of Army Angus Campbell will be named Tony Abbott's three-star military commander of border protection, with the job of co-ordinating the new government's tough asylum-seeker policies.
The former SAS commander and deputy National Security Adviser has emerged as Defence's choice to head up the 16 departments and agencies under the Coalition's Operation Sovereign Borders policy, which effectively militarises border protection.
Major-General Campbell's task will include finding a way to meet Mr Abbott's controversial pledge to turn back asylum-seeker boats where it is safe to do so. He will answer directly to Immigration Minister Scott Morrison.
Mr Abbott branded border protection a "national emergency" that needed to be tackled with the clout of a senior military commander when he unveiled Operation Sovereign Borders in late July.
General Campbell's job will be to co-ordinate a joint taskforce made up of government agencies ranging from ASIO to the Immigration Department, as well as the Australian Defence Force and the Federal Police.
It is understood he was regarded as right for the job in part because of his experience working inside government as a civilian in national security, which involved co-ordinating national security policy across the government.
The Chief of the Defence Force, General David Hurley, will recommend his appointment to the government, which is due to be sworn in on Wednesday morning. Mr Abbott is expected to announce the appointment in the coming days.
He has previously been the commander of Australia's military operations in the Middle East, which includes Afghanistan and Iraq. He has also served in East Timor.
Currently a two-star rank, he will be promoted to the three-star rank of Lieutenant-General.
About 475 asylum-seekers have arrived on seven boats in the 10 days since Mr Abbott led the Coalition to victory.
As opposition leader he repeatedly promised that one of his top priorities would be to "stop the boats".
On Monday, he called it a "stand-or-fall issue" for the new government.
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/twostar-veteran-angus-campbell-promoted-to-run-border-protection-20130917-2twru.html#ixzz2f8bDFPJy
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Tony couldn't find a a three star general he got a two star one and promoted him.
And he hasn't stopped the boats yet.
:lol
:rollin
Your bias and hatred of Abbott is surpassed only by your complete ignorance of how our military works.
There would not be a better credentialed officer to do the job he has been given and the promotion is entirely appropriate considering his time in rank, his past appointments and his new role.
And I'm not in the least surprised that you think 10 days is ample time for the new government to have fixed the stuff ups of the previous muppets.
http://www.army.gov.au/Who-we-are/Leaders/Deputy-Chief-of-Army (http://www.army.gov.au/Who-we-are/Leaders/Deputy-Chief-of-Army)
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Crap. He was given the promotion so Tony didn't look more like a fool than normal.
and today is the day he stops the boats :lol
Border-control policies kick in
Mr Abbott has said the Coalition's asylum seeker policy, Operation Sovereign Borders, will begin today and "will start to make a difference from day one".
The operation, which was announced in July, sets out a military response to fight people smuggling.
Late yesterday it was revealed that Deputy Chief of Army Major General Angus Campbell will head up the operation.
The former SAS officer was the deputy national security adviser to former prime minister John Howard.
The policy also establishes Operation Relex II, which aims to turn back asylum seeker boats "where it is safe to do so".
Since the September 7 election, seven asylum seeker boats have arrived, carrying 480 passengers.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-18/tony-abbotts-new-ministry-to-be-sworn-in-today/4963842
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and another quote from Abbott
Mr Abbott has said Operation Sovereign Borders will have an immediate effect once it begins.
"It will start to make a difference from day one. It will steadily be put into effect and I am confident we can stop the boats," he told a press conference earlier this week.
"This is one of those stand or fall issues. It really is."
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-17/angus-campbell-to-oversee-abbotts-border-protection-plan/4963732
So if he doesn't stop the boats he will fall on his own sword?
We can only hope.
:lol
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And if he does stop them you will acknowledge his good work and commitment to his word?
Yep, and look, bacon rashers are soaring overhead.
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Crap. He was given the promotion so Tony didn't look more like a fool than normal.
Again, complete ignorance as to how the military system works. But prattle on, it's amusing. :lol
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As most know I am no fan of our new PM
But serously 1965 your vitirolic rambling towards him on this issue is ridiculous
I know very little about how the military works with regard to promotion and to me it isn't about rank is is about getting the best possible person for the job.
So IMV Abbott has got this right. Based soley on reputation and what he has achieved in career (based on the research available) Deputy Chief of Army Angus Campbell is the right person for this job. Lets not kid ourselves it is going to be a bloody tough job
As for the boats not having stopped yet. Despite what anyone says including the PM, it isn't going to happen overnight. Granted I think it is a foolish statement to say this new policy will make a difference from day one. But that's a pollie simply telling people what they want to hear and sticking to script re what has been promised.
I am prepared to give this Govt time to implement it and to see if it works. If it does I'll be the first to say "well done" if it doesn't then they will cope the appropriate whacks. wonder if others will be prepared to do the same
Personally I reckon the next 6-12 months is when you judge its success or failure
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And if he does stop them you will acknowledge his good work and commitment to his word?
Yep, and look, bacon rashers are soaring overhead.
:lol
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Stop the boats
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where was that catch cry when we were being overrun by the 2 bob poms?
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No rambling just an article from the Age about Indonesia's reaction to our new border protection policies.
Tony Abbott's asylum seeker policies 'offensive', says senior Indonesian politician
Date September 19, 2013
Michael Bachelard
Michael Bachelard
Another senior Indonesian politician has described Tony Abbott’s asylum seeker policies as “very offensive” and an attack on his country’s sovereignty, adding that if they were not changed they would damage the bilateral relationship.
The comment by parliamentarian Tantowi Yahya is the latest in a series of slights to one of the Prime Minister’s signature policies, and Fairfax Media has confirmed antipathy to it exists across Indonesia’s political spectrum.
The policy annoys our sovereignty as an independent country
Mr Abbott will visit Jakarta on September 30 with foreign affairs minister Julie Bishop and immigration minister Scott Morrison to explain his policies to president Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono.
But Ms Bishop has already outlined a hard-nosed approach to those talks, saying last week: “We’re not seeking Indonesia’s permission … we’re seeking their understanding”.
Mr Tantowi is a member of the Indonesian parliament’s “Commission I”, responsible for foreign affairs. He told the ABC’s Lateline program on Wednesday that there were no circumstances under which Indonesia would accept Mr Abbott’s boat tow-back policy.
“No, we don't agree with that. This is, I can say, something like a consensus between the Government and the parliament not to agree with the plan which is now being projected by the new Prime Minister, Mr Tony Abbott,” Mr Tantowi said.
The policy “annoys our sovereignty as an independent country.”
“I think the policy will be very offensive and we in the parliaments fully support what was said by our foreign ministers, that we will fully reject the policy,” Mr Tantowi said.
Mr Tantowi is a member of the Golkar Party, and in Mr Yudhoyono's governing coalition.
But Fairfax Media has confirmed that Mr Abbott’s plan is unpopular in the executive, the parliament and through the bureaucracy.
A senior Indonesian political source said on condition of anonymity that the problem was not just with the tow-back policy, but with other aspects of Mr Abbott’s plan.
“It’s against our interests if other countries conduct activities which breach our sovereignty, such as, I can say it very clearly, the idea of buying boats and of intelligence gathering [in villages]. All those kids of activities, I think wouldn’t be consistent with Indonesia’s sovereignty,” the source said.
“To pay people for information it would not be considered wise. Can you imagine if we paid someone in Australia for information on pro-Papua separatism? I think it would raise eyebrows on your side. I think this is something that’s not advisable.”
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/tony-abbotts-asylum-seeker-policies-offensive-says-senior-indonesian-politician-20130919-2u082.html#ixzz2fH9xtzdd
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Who gives 2 fat flying f***s about what Indonesia thinks of the policy of our government that has just been elected with a mandate (in part) to stop the boats? It's our f***ing country, our f***ing borders, our f***ing national security and we'll run it our f***ing way, not kowtow to what ever other countries say we should do (and I include the US, Great Britain, France, New Zealand and all the others in that too). And maybe the Indonesians should wait until they hear from the government itself in formal talks what the actual policy is instead of relying on media reports and speculation. :wallywink
And here's one for the 'concerned' Indonesians - provide the asylum yourself and stop the drownings at your own border if the notion of us not accepting the illegal immigrants offends you so deeply. :banghead :banghead
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Feisty , Smokey, very feisty
:bow :bow :bow
BTW: totally agree ;D
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No early morning coffee this morning.
:help
All better now.
;D
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Who gives 2 fat flying f***s about what Indonesia thinks of the policy of our government that has just been elected with a mandate (in part) to stop the boats? It's our f***ing country, our f***ing borders, our f***ing national security and we'll run it our f***ing way, not kowtow to what ever other countries say we should do (and I include the US, Great Britain, France, New Zealand and all the others in that too). And maybe the Indonesians should wait until they hear from the government itself in formal talks what the actual policy is instead of relying on media reports and speculation. :wallywink
And here's one for the 'concerned' Indonesians - provide the asylum yourself and stop the drownings at your own border if the notion of us not accepting the illegal immigrants offends you so deeply. :banghead :banghead
Don't think I would want to be your neighbour.
Or is that different and you try to get along with your neighbours?
:cheers
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Who gives 2 fat flying f***s about what Indonesia thinks of the policy of our government that has just been elected with a mandate (in part) to stop the boats? It's our f***ing country, our f***ing borders, our f***ing national security and we'll run it our f***ing way, not kowtow to what ever other countries say we should do (and I include the US, Great Britain, France, New Zealand and all the others in that too). And maybe the Indonesians should wait until they hear from the government itself in formal talks what the actual policy is instead of relying on media reports and speculation. :wallywink
And here's one for the 'concerned' Indonesians - provide the asylum yourself and stop the drownings at your own border if the notion of us not accepting the illegal immigrants offends you so deeply. :banghead :banghead
Don't think I would want to be your neighbour.
Or is that different and you try to get along with your neighbours?
:cheers
:huh :huh
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I consider myself to be a good neighbour '65 - I don't tell my neighbours how to live their life, I respect their proximity to mine in my lifestyle choices, and I ask nothing but the same courtesy in return. And if they were deliberately opening their gates or fences and assisting any form of human or animal traffic through to my block without talking to me first, I would take it up with them initially but then reserve the right to resolve it myself in my way if they didn't want to co-operate. Sound familiar? :cheers
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I consider myself to be a good neighbour '65 - I don't tell my neighbours how to live their life, I respect their proximity to mine in my lifestyle choices, and I ask nothing but the same courtesy in return. And if they were deliberately opening their gates or fences and assisting any form of human or animal traffic through to my block without talking to me first, I would take it up with them initially but then reserve the right to resolve it myself in my way if they didn't want to co-operate. Sound familiar? :cheers
Would it worth starting a conflict over?
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I take it then, you would roll over and let them keep invading your land - potentially risking your family, your space, your privacy?
And the answer is yes, I will protect and defend my family on my land to the death if necessary so if conflict is the final outcome then conflict it is.
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I take it then, you would roll over and let them keep invading your land - potentially risking your family, your space, your privacy?
And the answer is yes, I will protect and defend my family on my land to the death if necessary so if conflict is the final outcome then conflict it is.
No you misunderstand.
Wouldn't a little tact and diplomacy be worth it if it avoids the conflict?
:cheers
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Then you didn't read my original reply very well:
"without talking to me first, I would take it up with them initially but then reserve the right to resolve it myself in my way if they didn't want to co-operate"
:thumbsup
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No rambling just an article from the Age about Indonesia's reaction to our new border protection policies.
Tony Abbott's asylum seeker policies 'offensive', says senior Indonesian politician
Date September 19, 2013
Michael Bachelard
Michael Bachelard
Another senior Indonesian politician has described Tony Abbott’s asylum seeker policies as “very offensive” and an attack on his country’s sovereignty, adding that if they were not changed they would damage the bilateral relationship.
The comment by parliamentarian Tantowi Yahya is the latest in a series of slights to one of the Prime Minister’s signature policies, and Fairfax Media has confirmed antipathy to it exists across Indonesia’s political spectrum.
..............
Mr Tantowi is a member of the Indonesian parliament’s “Commission I”, responsible for foreign affairs. He told the ABC’s Lateline program on Wednesday that there were no circumstances under which Indonesia would accept Mr Abbott’s boat tow-back policy.
“No, we don't agree with that. This is, I can say, something like a consensus between the Government and the parliament not to agree with the plan which is now being projected by the new Prime Minister, Mr Tony Abbott,” Mr Tantowi said.
The policy “annoys our sovereignty as an independent country.”
“I think the policy will be very offensive and we in the parliaments fully support what was said by our foreign ministers, that we will fully reject the policy,” Mr Tantowi said.
Mr Tantowi is a member of the Golkar Party, and in Mr Yudhoyono's governing coalition.
Interesting how differently the ABC (same media) portrayed Mr Tantowi when he criticised Gillard last year:
TONY EASTLEY: In Jakarta's political circles, the case of 'Captain Emad' is seen as evidence that Australia isn't serious about cracking down on the principals of people smuggling.
While Indonesian prosecutors have jailed the smuggler accused of sending a boat that disappeared in late 2010, they are struggling to keep him behind bars, as Indonesia correspondent Matt Brown reports from Jakarta.
MATT BROWN: When Indonesian politicians talk about people smuggling, their first words are always for the young Indonesians who've been held in Australian jails for crewing the boats, so allegations that Australia has given a refugee protection visa to a smuggler like Captain Emad won't go down well.
A member of the parliamentary committee on Foreign Affairs, Tantowi Yahya, is just one hoping for an explanation.
TANTOWI YAHYA: What we can do in a very short moment is discuss about this with your Australian ambassador here in Jakarta. So we'd like to express our disappointment and we'd like to hear more about it.
MATT BROWN: Tantowi Yahya is a former host of Indonesia's version of Who Wants to be a Millionaire, and he has a populist's eye for how this will play out in Jakarta.
TANTOWI YAHYA: We do agree with the request from Australian Government to be cooperative with them, but then we got the news that Australian Government is giving refugee status to the smugglers. They've been establishing protection and shelter and we are disappointed.
That's the way we see it. Australian Government is not consistent with the spirit of eliminating all the practice of smuggling people from Indonesia.
MATT BROWN: It's an embarrassing controversy for Australia, especially given the still patchy Indonesian effort to curtail the people smuggling trade. For example, the smuggler accused of organising the boat that disappeared with 97 people on board in late 2010 is a repeat offender called Abu Ali Al Kuwaiti.
He's even done time in Australia for people smuggling and he's in custody again after the Indonesian police arrested him in September.
He was caught with a fake Iraqi passport that showed he paid a visit in 2009 to Kuala Lumpur, which is a known hub for the smuggling network - including Captain Emad. He then travelled in and out of Indonesia at least half a dozen times over the next year.
But an immigration intelligence source says the Indonesian police could not muster a people smuggling charge, and prosecutors would only pursue him over the false passport.
In Australia, on the other hand, Four Corners has found witnesses to his key role in the smuggling operation.
(Excerpt from Four Corners report)
SARAH FERGUSON: Who is that man?
MUSTAPHA: Abu Ali al Kuwaiti…
(End of excerpt)
MATT BROWN: An anonymous refugee told Four Corners he'd paid Abu Ali al Kuwaiti $8,000 to travel on the boat that carried Captain Emad to refuge in Australia.
(Man speaking)
Another, named Yahia al Kazami even visited Abu Ali in detention in Jakarta to press him about the boat that went missing, and found him apparently still running a smuggling operation.
Neither the Australian Federal Police nor the Attorney-General's department would say what, if anything, they've done to help Indonesia's case against him.
This is Matt Brown in Jakarta for AM.
http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2012/s3518069.htm (http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2012/s3518069.htm)
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Tony accepts Indonesian sovereignty
How very kind :clapping
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I take it then, you would roll over and let them keep invading your land - potentially risking your family, your space, your privacy?
And the answer is yes, I will protect and defend my family on my land to the death if necessary so if conflict is the final outcome then conflict it is.
No you misunderstand.
Wouldn't a little tact and diplomacy be worth it if it avoids the conflict?
:cheers
I can't see how not allowing boat smugglers to enter our waters will start a conflict. Australia is its own sovereignty we can turn boats around and not permit them to enter it.
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400 million Muslims many of who are on the verge of extremism
Let's pee them off
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400 million Muslims many of who are on the verge of extremism
Let's pee them off
...and they are our next door neighbours as well.
:cheers
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I take it then, you would roll over and let them keep invading your land - potentially risking your family, your space, your privacy?
And the answer is yes, I will protect and defend my family on my land to the death if necessary so if conflict is the final outcome then conflict it is.
No you misunderstand.
Wouldn't a little tact and diplomacy be worth it if it avoids the conflict?
:cheers
I can't see how not allowing boat smugglers to enter our waters will start a conflict. Australia is its own sovereignty we can turn boats around and not permit them to enter it.
on the proviso that as long as it is "safe" to do
that's is my understanding
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400 million Muslims many of who are on the verge of extremism
Let's pee them off
Hitler would have loved you. Your not a distant relation of Neville Chamberlain per chance?
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400 million Muslims many of who are on the verge of extremism
Let's pee them off
Hitler would have loved you. Your not a distant relation of Neville Chamberlain per chance?
:lol
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400 million Muslims many of who are on the verge of extremism
Let's pee them off
Hitler would have loved you. Your not a distant relation of Neville Chamberlain per chance?
:lol :lol
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>:(
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The Libs have finally worked out how to stop the boats.
They are just not going to tell us about them anymore.
:lol
Clamp on boat arrival figures
Immigration Minister Scott Morrison's office has clamped down on information about asylum seekers issued by his department and border protection agencies.
Previously, the Australian Customs and Border Protection Service has issued statements whenever an asylum-seeker boat arrived and the Immigration Department provided collated figures each month, which they made publicly available.
But inquiries to both the department and ACBPS on boat arrivals are now being directed to the minister's office. Mr Morrison's spokesman is declining to provide any information.
During the election campaign, Mr Morrison flagged the possibility that boat arrivals would no longer be reported if the Coalition won government. He said at the time this would be an ''operational matter'' for the three-star head of the Coalition's new Operation Sovereign Borders task force.
Mr Morrison's spokesman reaffirmed on Friday that it would be up to the newly appointed military head of Operation Sovereign Borders, Lieutenant General Angus Campbell.
It is unclear whether General Campbell has yet issued a directive. As of Friday afternoon, sources on Christmas Island - to which asylum seekers on intercepted boats are initially taken - were saying there had been no boats in recent days.
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/clamp-on-boat-arrival-figures-20130920-2u5as.html#ixzz2fSiJ7zVp
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Yeah I heard that yesterday 1965,and it struck me as rather odd. Would this be to change the perception in the community that the boats are still arriving?
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Another Abbott idea that's peeing the Indonesians off.
Abbott's asylum seeker transit plan raises suspicions in Jakarta
Michael Bachelard, David Wroe
Tony Abbott, Australia's prime minister-elect, gestures as he speaks during a news conference at Parliament House in Canberra, Australia, on Monday, Sept. 16, 2013. Abbott announced his Cabinet team to see through the coalition government’s first-term pledges, attracting criticism for including just one female member.
A largely overlooked element of the Abbott government's people-smuggling policy involving asylum-seeker ''transit ports'' on Indonesian soil has emerged as the latest lightning rod for anger in Jakarta.
The $198 million plan to set up asylum-seeker terminals in Indonesian ports and elsewhere in the region has also met with criticism from a top international law expert, who says it would raise more legal questions than other controversial parts of the Coalition's policy.
Under the plan, the government says it would set up the terminals ''subject to the agreement of our regional partners'', then lease ''a fleet of fast transfer vessels'' to carry asylum seekers there from mid-ocean, so that they never enter Australian waters.
Officials would conduct health checks on the ship or at the port, and the smuggled people would be taken to nearby airports for charter flights direct to Nauru and Manus Island.
But the plan threatens to escalate tensions between Canberra and Jakarta over the issue.
Indonesian officials contacted last week said they were not aware of the proposal. When it was explained to Mahfudz Siddiq, chairman of the Indonesian Parliament's Commission I, which oversees foreign affairs, he said he thought it would be ''intervening in other countries' sovereignty''.
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/abbotts-asylum-seeker-transit-plan-raises-suspicions-in-jakarta-20130922-2u81g.html#ixzz2feXaJf1d
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Stuff Indonesia
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400 million Muslims many of who are on the verge of extremism
Let's pee them off
Hitler would have loved you.
(http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-forum/ban.gif)
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Now the Libs are saying they won't tell us if any boats have been turned back.
What sort of government have we got ourselves FFS?
Silence, even secrecy the rule over boat arrivals
Date September 24, 2013
David Wroe
Defence correspondent
The Australian public may never be told whether the Coalition is meeting a key election promise in having the navy turn back asylum-seeker boats, Immigration Minister Scott Morrison has said.
Unveiling the first steps in the new government's tough policy, Mr Morrison made it clear there would be tight controls on information under the military-led Operation Sovereign Borders regime.
He also flagged a dramatic acceleration in transferring asylum-seekers from Australian territory at Christmas Island to offshore detention on Manus Island or Nauru, prompting refugee advocate claims that people would not be given proper health checks.
Fronting the media for the first time with hand-picked military commander Lieutenant-General Angus Campbell, Mr Morrison said he would not go into tactical or operational details in his planned weekly briefings, including even whether a boat was turned back.
''We are not getting into the tactical discussion of things that happen at sea … This is an open briefing process but there are obvious limitations to what can be discussed in these forums for the protection and safety of the people who are … performing these tasks,'' he said.
Turning back boats was a key election promise by the Coalition. The aim is to deter further arrivals, but this cannot happen if turnbacks are not announced.
Mr Morrison and Lieutenant-General Campbell also declined to go into detail about how the decision would be made to turn a boat around.
Acting Labor leader Chris Bowen said refusing to reveal when attempts were made to turn back boats would be ''completely unacceptable to the Australian people''.
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/silence-even-secrecy-the-rule-over-boat-arrivals-20130923-2ua88.html#ixzz2fkFrapRZ
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What sort of government have we got ourselves FFS?
We have the government the majority of Australian's voted for - end of story
Like it or lump it
Get used to it ::)
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What sort of government have we got ourselves FFS?
We have the government the majority of Australian's voted for - end of story
Like it or lump it
Get used to it ::)
Nope
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Silence, even secrecy the rule over boat arrivals
Turning back boats was a key election promise by the Coalition. The aim is to deter further arrivals, but this cannot happen if turnbacks are not announced.
Ah, so this "Defence Correspondent" has an opinion that's right and the collective heads of those now charged with stopping the boats are all wrong. And he knows this cannot happen how?
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Silence, even secrecy the rule over boat arrivals
Turning back boats was a key election promise by the Coalition. The aim is to deter further arrivals, but this cannot happen if turnbacks are not announced.
Ah, so this "Defence Correspondent" has an opinion that's right and the collective heads of those now charged with stopping the boats are all wrong. And he knows this cannot happen how?
The deterrence factor was the reason given by the Libs as to why they would not be giving up-to-date announcements re boat arrivals.
Surely the same thing would apply to turning back the boats. The Libs would want it known by the people smugglers and asylum seekers that boats were being turned back.
Unless they have no intention of turning any boats back.
Just like they never had any intention of buying boats either. (pack of lying bastards they are)
:lol
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What sort of government have we got ourselves FFS?
We have the government the majority of Australian's voted for - end of story
Like it or lump it
Get used to it ::)
WP your wasting your time he'll never accept it. He'll post daily articles, hyperbole everything and claim the liberals are the worst government in history. All the while calling Gillard and Rudd the greatest Prime ministers this country ever had :lol.
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The deterrence factor was the reason given by the Libs as to why they would not be giving up-to-date announcements re boat arrivals.
Surely the same thing would apply to turning back the boats. The Libs would want it known by the people smugglers and asylum seekers that boats were being turned back.
Agree, the same thing would apply. Not sure why you are disagreeing with yourself? No up-to-date announcements on anything - arrivals, turn backs, sinkings etc. Ever consider they might be applying a policy of keeping the smugglers in the dark to deny them information they can use in plying their trade? The only way the illegal immigrants will get information now is by their own family network sources and it will spread very very quickly when they get phone calls from their relatives from Manus, Nauru etc that they no longer get landed or settled in Australia. The illegals will go on that information much more than the lies and deception spread by the smugglers if there is no other source of information.
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If the rumour of Tony Abbot buying all the boats becomes true then I am ready to go! PM me for a prospectus if you are interested in becoming a part of this once in a lifetime venture. ;D
(http://i41.tinypic.com/21muq0n.jpg)
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WP your wasting your time he'll never accept it. He'll post daily articles, hyperbole everything and claim the liberals are the worst government in history. All the while calling Gillard and Rudd the greatest Prime ministers this country ever had :lol.
History will judge Gillard well, Rudd I'm not so sure about.
:cheers
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What sort of government have we got ourselves FFS?
We have the government the majority of Australian's voted for - end of story
Like it or lump it
Get used to it ::)
Yay Big Willy :clapping
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Morrison has been shown to be a fool.
This is proving to be an incompetent government of monumental proportions.
People smuggler ridicules Scott Morrison's silence on boat arrivals
Michael Bachelard
Indonesia correspondent for Fairfax Media
A people smuggler jailed in Indonesia has ridiculed Scott Morrison's vow of silence about new asylum boat arrivals, saying the smuggling networks do not rely on Australian government press releases for their information.
The smuggler, Dawood Amiri, told Fairfax Media that the policy "won't change anything" from the syndicates' point of view.
"When the boat is being rescued and the passengers on board see the Australian authorities, they call the Hawaladar from their satellite phone. Then the smuggler gets the money," Amiri said.
A Hawaladar is a trusted third party, often based in Afghanistan or Pakistan, who holds the money in trust for passengers on boats. The money is only released to the people smuggler when the boat arrives safely.
"This new policy can work only if the Abbott minister buys all the satellite phones in Indonesia (like they want to buy the scrap boats)," Amiri said.
"That's a stupid policy. The politicians are wasting their time."
Asylum seekers also immediately contact their families by phone when they arrive safely in Christmas Island, or they use the island's detention centre computers to tell their stories, often over Facebook.
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/people-smuggler-ridicules-scott-morrisons-silence-on-boat-arrivals-20130924-2ub2z.html#ixzz2fmECC174
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And yes Morrison did say he was going to deprive people smugglers of 'shipping news'.
Immigration Minister Scott Morrison says his new weekly briefings on border security will deprive people smugglers of 'shipping news', but his critics say he's hiding the problem.
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/people-smuggler-ridicules-scott-morrisons-silence-on-boat-arrivals-20130924-2ub2z.html#ixzz2fmFIeyKf
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All the Tony Abbott lovers have gone quiet.
Starting to realise a few home truths no doubt.
:lol
-
All the Tony Abbott lovers have gone quiet.
Starting to realise a few home truths no doubt.
:lol
Don't know how to bereak this to you but I don't think Abbott has anything to do with it :whistle ;D
-
All the Tony Abbott lovers have gone quiet.
Starting to realise a few home truths no doubt.
:lol
Don't know how to bereak this to you but I don't think Abbott has anything to do with it :whistle ;D
Too true.
In this case it is Scott Morrison who is the moron.
:lol
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Wow, and to think you are charged with 'educating' our children, my grandchildren. :o
And the scariest (yet most explainable) part is that as a teacher you haven't been able to progress from the left wing ideological morass your contemporaries wallowed in when I was still a wide-eyed impressionable high school student back in the early 70's.
-
All the Tony Abbott lovers have gone quiet.
Starting to realise a few home truths no doubt.
:lol
Don't know how to bereak this to you but I don't think Abbott has anything to do with it :whistle ;D
Too true.
In this case it is Scott Morrison who is the moron.
:lol
Wrong again
-
I know I am right when posters stop talking about policy and use a personal attack as their argument.
:cheers
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maybe people just see you as a troll these days and dont really give a poo what you say about politics ;)
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Maybe the Abbott lovers are just starting to realise what they have done.
:lol
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maybe people just see you as a troll these days and dont really give a poo what you say about politics ;)
:clapping :clapping minus the troll comment of course
-
Maybe the Abbott lovers are just starting to realise what they have done.
:lol
Err no maybe folks are just wanting to get on with life rather than wallowing in pointless political discussions when a new govt is only just 3 weeks old into a 3 year term
-
Maybe the Abbott lovers are just starting to realise what they have done.
:lol
Err no maybe folks are just wanting to get on with life rather than wallowing in pointless political discussions when a new govt is only just 3 weeks old into a 3 year term
You could always just not read what is written.
Rather than resort to veiled insults.
Play the ball not the man.
:cheers
-
Maybe the Abbott lovers are just starting to realise what they have done.
:lol
Err no maybe folks are just wanting to get on with life rather than wallowing in pointless political discussions when a new govt is only just 3 weeks old into a 3 year term
It has only been three weeks and the stuff-ups are starting to mount.
The latest is from Christopher Pyne who is trying to take Tertiary Education back to the elitist pre-Whitlam days.
:cheers
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No need for me to comment on this, just read it for yourselves.
Indonesia voices concerns about Coalition's boats policy 'loud and clear'
September 25, 2013 - 8:02AM
Ellen Connolly, New York
Could it have been a case of lost in translation when Foreign Affairs Minister Julie Bishop met with her Indonesian counterpart Dr Marty Natalegawa in New York on Monday – or simply falling on deaf ears?
As far as Ms Bishop is concerned her meeting earlier this week with Indonesia's Foreign Affairs Minister to discuss the Coalition's controversial asylum-seeker policy was "very cordial", "positive and very productive".
Yet Dr Natalegawa clearly saw – and heard - it differently, and said he warned the Australian minister against implementing the policy, which he strongly rejects.
Fairfax Media has previously confirmed that the Coalition's plans to turn around asylum boats was unpopular with the Indonesian government.
"We have reiterated that Indonesia cannot accept any Australian policy that would, in nature, violate Indonesia's sovereignty," Dr Natalegawa told Indonesia news agency Antara News following the New York meeting.
''I think, the message has been conveyed loud and clear and has been understood well," Dr Natalegawa added.
But the message it seems was not heard by Ms Bishop who told Australian media 24 hours after the meeting in New York that they were in agreeance to put an end to people smuggling.
"I put to Foreign Minister Natalegawa that Australia will be making changes to the laws in Australia so that we take away the product that the people smugglers are currently selling and that is permanent residency in Australia."
Asked on three occasions to respond to reports that Dr Natalegawa warned Australia not to introduce such a policy, Ms Bishop refused to answer, instead she repeatedly described the meeting as "positive and productive".
"I'm not going into the operational details of our policy but I had a very broad ranging discussion with Mr Natalegawa and I'm confident we will be able to implement our policies."
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/indonesia-voices-concerns-about-coalitions-boats-policy-loud-and-clear-20130925-2ucuz.html#ixzz2fqyA1xBc
-
Maybe the Abbott lovers are just starting to realise what they have done.
:lol
Err no maybe folks are just wanting to get on with life rather than wallowing in pointless political discussions when a new govt is only just 3 weeks old into a 3 year term
It has only been three weeks and the stuff-ups are starting to mount.
The latest is from Christopher Pyne who is trying to take Tertiary Education back to the elitist pre-Whitlam days.
:cheers
I'm an elitist, should suit me fine. :clapping
-
Maybe the Abbott lovers are just starting to realise what they have done.
:lol
Err no maybe folks are just wanting to get on with life rather than wallowing in pointless political discussions when a new govt is only just 3 weeks old into a 3 year term
You could always just not read what is written.
Rather than resort to veiled insults.
Play the ball not the man.
:cheers
Please tell me where did I "play the man" exactly ?
And BTW I read the papers, follow the news but at the end of the day we are 3 weeks into a new government. A government that the majority of people voted for so being a democracy we have got exactly what we as a country voted for, just like we did last time with a minority govt. People vote and we get what we vote for
-
Maybe the Abbott lovers are just starting to realise what they have done.
:lol
Err no maybe folks are just wanting to get on with life rather than wallowing in pointless political discussions when a new govt is only just 3 weeks old into a 3 year term
Here
-
All the Tony Abbott lovers have gone quiet.
Starting to realise a few home truths no doubt.
:lol
Don't know how to bereak this to you but I don't think Abbott has anything to do with it :whistle ;D
Too true.
In this case it is Scott Morrison who is the moron.
:lol
Wrong again
and here
-
All the Tony Abbott lovers have gone quiet.
Starting to realise a few home truths no doubt.
:lol
Don't know how to bereak this to you but I don't think Abbott has anything to do with it :whistle ;D
and here
-
Maybe the Abbott lovers are just starting to realise what they have done.
:lol
Err no maybe folks are just wanting to get on with life rather than wallowing in pointless political discussions when a new govt is only just 3 weeks old into a 3 year term
It has only been three weeks and the stuff-ups are starting to mount.
The latest is from Christopher Pyne who is trying to take Tertiary Education back to the elitist pre-Whitlam days.
:cheers
And so he should every bum gets to go to uni these days which means that Australia doesnt have enough people in the trades. they should bring back the old style technical schools and slash university places and that includes the international students half of whom are complete dimwits.
-
Maybe the Abbott lovers are just starting to realise what they have done.
:lol
Err no maybe folks are just wanting to get on with life rather than wallowing in pointless political discussions when a new govt is only just 3 weeks old into a 3 year term
Here
You've got to be kidding! That's playing the man?
Did I verbally attack you? Call you names? Call you a fool? Abuse you?
Don't think I did, actually I clearly didn't, I know I didn't
And if I did they yeah I'd put my hand up and say I played the man but I played the ball because I stuck to the topic and replied to your posts and gave an opinion.
-
Maybe the Abbott lovers are just starting to realise what they have done.
:lol
Err no maybe folks are just wanting to get on with life rather than wallowing in pointless political discussions when a new govt is only just 3 weeks old into a 3 year term
Here
You've got to be kidding! That's playing the man?
Did I verbally attack you? Call you names? Call you a fool? Abuse you?
Don't think I did, actually I clearly didn't, I know I didn't
And if I did they yeah I'd put my hand up and say I played the man but I played the ball because I stuck to the topic and replied to your posts and gave an opinion.
"wallowing in pointless political discussions" is sticking to the topic?
And what about the other two?
One you implied that everyone had gone quiet was because of me.
and in the other you quite clearly called me a moron.
Not that I mind any of this but I find it hard to believe that you weren't playing the man.
:cheers
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"wallowing in pointless political discussions" is sticking to the topic?
yes I would think it is. I gave an opinion as to why people have gone quiet and that is IMHO people are getting on with things rather wallowing in pointless political discussion when we have a new govt that's 3 weeks into a 3 year term and because most people are simply over it and want to get on with the more important things in life
And what about the other two?
One you implied that everyone had gone quiet was because of me.
No you have made the assumption - see above
and in the other you quite clearly called me a moron.
No I did not. You said Scott Morrision was a moron. I said wrong again meaning he isn't a moron
Again you've made an assumption
If I was going to call you a moron I would come out and call you a moron
Not that I mind any of this but I find it hard to believe that you weren't playing the man.
:cheers
As I said I wasn't playing the man. That's not how I do things
-
How typical of 'reporting' (and I use that term in it's loosest possible sense) by The Age. This is an abject lesson in how to turn words from something they were into something they weren't, just to get across an opinion.
"As far as Ms Bishop is concerned her meeting earlier this week with Indonesia's Foreign Affairs Minister to discuss the Coalition's controversial asylum-seeker policy was "very cordial", "positive and very productive"."
Nothing about what she took from the meeting, any possible actions or change of policy - nothing - just "very cordial", "positive and very productive". And the Indonesian Minister's reply was just as simple after giving his view: ''I think, the message has been conveyed loud and clear and has been understood well," Dr Natalegawa added.
Later in the interview she (Bishop) denied there was any tension between the two at the meeting. "We spoke very warmly. We know each other well." but that wan't sufficient for our scribe who pushed on. From all that, the 'reporter' (again, used in it's loosest sense) surmised/observed/interpreted that: But the message it seems was not heard by Ms Bishop who told Australian media 24 hours after the meeting in New York that they were in agreeance to put an end to people smuggling.
Bishop said nothing at all about the contentious (to Indonesia) part of the policy except to say "There can be some misunderstanding as to what our policy is and it is certainly not to in any way show disrespect for Indonesian sovereignty and for anyone to think that that was our policy that would be a mistake.
"Our policy respects Indonesia's sovereignty, respects Indonesia's territorial borders, just as Indonesia respects ours."
and what she also did say was that both parties were in agreeance to put an end to people smuggling (remember the "very cordial", "positive and very productive", and "has been understood well" bits) but no, our intrepid 'reporter' 'reports' that the message wasn't heard by Bishop. Here's a possibility the 'reporter' didn't consider - it is just as possible or likely that from all the discussions that have already and are about to take place between the 2 countries then it will be modified or dropped as part of a solution satisfactory to all concerned - but I suppose when the 'reporting' becomes 'opining' then all care with facts can be thrown out the window.
Bishop then goes on to say "I put to Foreign Minister Natalegawa that Australia will be making changes to the laws in Australia so that we take away the product that the people smugglers are currently selling and that is permanent residency in Australia." and after 3 unsuccessful attempts to get Bishop to reveal details of the talks, even her explanation of "I'm not going into the operational details of our policy but I had a very broad ranging discussion with Mr Natalegawa and I'm confident we will be able to implement our policies." wasn't enough to deter our reporter from her quest to paint the talks in a bad light.
And if you think my opinion on the quality of her reporting is askew then take a minute to read the article in the Indonesian press regarding the meeting and point out anywhere, even once in the article where it states or indicates Natalegawa "clearly saw – and heard - it differently" what Bishop said:
New York (ANTARA News) - Indonesia has issued a warning against Australia`s plan to implement its policy on boat people, which violates Indonesia`s sovereignty.
Foreign minister Marty Natalegawa reiterated the country`s stance at a bilateral meeting with his Australian counterpart Julie Bishop at the U.N. Headquarters here on Monday.
Natalegawa and Bishop met a day before the opening of the 68th U.N. General Assembly.
"We have reiterated that Indonesia cannot accept any Australian policy that would, in nature, violate Indonesia`s sovereignty," he told reporters after holding a series of multilateral and bilateral meetings.
"I think, the message has been conveyed loud and clear and has been understood well," he added.
The two countries` foreign ministers had met to discuss preparations for the planned visit of new Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbot to Jakarta on September 30.
Natalegawa further revealed that during the meeting Bishop had explained again the efforts that Australia would take to prevent the arrival of boat people to Indonesia.
"He also emphasized that measures should be adopted so that Indonesia`s sovereignty is not violated," the minister stated.
Meanwhile, Natalegawa also reminded that Indonesia and Australia were jointly chairing the Bali Process--a vehicle set up for countering human trafficking.
"There are steps that we can take, but they should be orderly and respect the two countries` sovereignty," he said.
He added that the boat people issue would be part of the agenda during talks between Abbot and President Yudhoyono.
Efforts to prevent the arrival of the boat people and human trafficking are one of the priorities spelt out by the new Australian prime minister at the beginning of his leadership.
As has been reported by the media, Operation Sovereign Borders Australia will carry out various action plans, including sending back boats ferrying asylum seekers to Indonesia before they reach Australia`s shores.
Abbot has said Australia will respect Indonesia`s sovereignty with regards to the implementation of the policy.
http://www.antara.co.id/en/news/90847/indonesia-issues-warningagainst-australias-boat-people-policy (http://www.antara.co.id/en/news/90847/indonesia-issues-warningagainst-australias-boat-people-policy)
The good old Age, right up there with unbiased and factual reporting. Any wonder their circulation is dropping abysmally, with crap like that spewing forth they won't be around in another 10 years.
-
We shall see what happens.
I for one think it is appalling that such a high profile job goes to such an intellectual lightweight.
Perhaps you think differently.
Mark my words. This is an appalling government the likes of which we haven't seen since the Whitlam era.
:cheers
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Hearld sun will be always be around
The unwashed began racist right require some reading
-
We shall see what happens.
I for one think it is appalling that such a high profile job goes to such an intellectual lightweight.
Perhaps you think differently.
Mark my words. This is an appalling government the likes of which we haven't seen since the Whitlam era.
:cheers
Do you mean Bishop or Abbott? Or both? ;D
-
We shall see what happens.
I for one think it is appalling that such a high profile job goes to such an intellectual lightweight.
Perhaps you think differently.
Mark my words. This is an appalling government the likes of which we haven't seen since the Whitlam era.
:cheers
Do you mean Bishop or Abbott? Or both? ;D
Bishop.
Not sure we have seen much vision from Tony though.
see http://oneeyed-richmond.com/forum/index.php?topic=12416.msg397147#msg397147
:thumbsup
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Maybe the Abbott lovers are just starting to realise what they have done.
:lol
Err no maybe folks are just wanting to get on with life rather than wallowing in pointless political discussions when a new govt is only just 3 weeks old into a 3 year term
It has only been three weeks and the stuff-ups are starting to mount.
The latest is from Christopher Pyne who is trying to take Tertiary Education back to the elitist pre-Whitlam days.
:cheers
And so he should every bum gets to go to uni these days which means that Australia doesnt have enough people in the trades. they should bring back the old style technical schools and slash university places and that includes the international students half of whom are complete dimwits.
Its also a disgrace that every 95% of these little bums doing VCE get to pass VCE? Why so they dont feel bad. Too bad, if your a moron you should be failed, if you dont work hard you should be failed, if your a mediocre student you should be failed. This nonsense where everyone passes is socialist bulldust so that the panzies from the left dont feel bad coz their kids are primarily dumb. 50% of the kids at university wouldnt know how get snot from their nose, they have no place at university, their place should be in technical colleges learning how to make fences, fixing cars, learning how to be plumbers or electricians or just being what they are good for in the extreme, dole bludgers. University places should only go to the academically capable not the dimwits.
-
only for the rich.
people need to learn their place so we can restore the natural order.
money = academia
no money = elbow deep in the academic's poo
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No need for me to comment on this, just read it for yourselves.
Indonesia voices concerns about Coalition's boats policy 'loud and clear'
September 25, 2013 - 8:02AM
Ellen Connolly, New York
Could it have been a case of lost in translation when Foreign Affairs Minister Julie Bishop met with her Indonesian counterpart Dr Marty Natalegawa in New York on Monday – or simply falling on deaf ears?
As far as Ms Bishop is concerned her meeting earlier this week with Indonesia's Foreign Affairs Minister to discuss the Coalition's controversial asylum-seeker policy was "very cordial", "positive and very productive".
Yet Dr Natalegawa clearly saw – and heard - it differently, and said he warned the Australian minister against implementing the policy, which he strongly rejects.
Fairfax Media has previously confirmed that the Coalition's plans to turn around asylum boats was unpopular with the Indonesian government.
"We have reiterated that Indonesia cannot accept any Australian policy that would, in nature, violate Indonesia's sovereignty," Dr Natalegawa told Indonesia news agency Antara News following the New York meeting.
''I think, the message has been conveyed loud and clear and has been understood well," Dr Natalegawa added.
But the message it seems was not heard by Ms Bishop who told Australian media 24 hours after the meeting in New York that they were in agreeance to put an end to people smuggling.
"I put to Foreign Minister Natalegawa that Australia will be making changes to the laws in Australia so that we take away the product that the people smugglers are currently selling and that is permanent residency in Australia."
Asked on three occasions to respond to reports that Dr Natalegawa warned Australia not to introduce such a policy, Ms Bishop refused to answer, instead she repeatedly described the meeting as "positive and productive".
"I'm not going into the operational details of our policy but I had a very broad ranging discussion with Mr Natalegawa and I'm confident we will be able to implement our policies."
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/indonesia-voices-concerns-about-coalitions-boats-policy-loud-and-clear-20130925-2ucuz.html#ixzz2fqyA1xBc
These Indonesian ships are violating our sovereignty. Abbott's policy isn't about taking the ships into the Indonesian ports like the ABC and you like to claim 1965. Its within our sovereignty rights to deny entry and turn ships around as they attempt to enter our waters.
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It's a bloody invasion and they should be repelled with force if need be, we need Dolph to be appointed as the Grand Admiral
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It's a bloody invasion
makes the bombing of darwin look tame
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japs dropped more bombs on darwin than they did on pearl harbour.
it was all kept hush hush at the time
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japs dropped more bombs on darwin than they did on pearl harbour.
it was all kept hush hush at the time
al, Is that why so many houses in Darwin have inground pools?
-
:lol
-
:lol
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Sink the boats problem solved.
-
We have transferred Asylum seekers back to Indonesia.
The Australian Navy has transferred dozens of asylum seekers to Indonesian authorities during a rendezvous off the coast of Java.
The 44 asylum seekers and two crew members were on a boat which got into trouble 40 nautical miles off Java yesterday morning.
Suyanto, the head of operations at the Jakarta office of Indonesia's rescue agency Basarnas, says his agency did not have the capability to reach the stricken boat.
The Australian Navy intercepted the vessel and then advised Indonesia that it would drop the asylum seekers off.
In the early hours of the morning, an Indonesian rescue crew met a Navy ship off the coast of Java and the asylum seekers were handed over.
Suyanto says he does not know why Australia did not take the asylum seekers to Christmas Island.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-27/navy-transfers-asylum-seekers-to-indonesia/4985674
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Yep, let's keep the borders open and entice illegal immigrants to enter our country by boat. Anyone who thinks this shouldn't be stopped needs to have a long hard look at themselves.
Indonesian authorities hold grave fears for up to 70 asylum seekers still missing, feared drowned, after their boat sank en route to Australia.
At least 22 people, mostly children, drowned when the boat, which was carrying about 120 passengers, sank in rough seas on Friday off the coast of Java.
One of the passengers, a Lebanese man, had reportedly lost his pregnant wife and eight children in the disaster.
Just 25 of those aboard had been rescued before efforts to locate survivors were postponed on Friday evening due to failing light.
The search was expected to resume on Saturday.
It's believed to be the first fatal attempted asylum-seeker crossing under the Abbott government, and comes after another group of 44 asylum seekers were rescued by an Australian navy vessel in the Sunda Strait on Thursday.
The boat that sank on Friday had departed from the fishing village of Pelabuhan Ratu, in the Sukabumi regency, on the south coast of western Java.
It first got into trouble about 10 hours into its journey and efforts were made to return to Indonesia before it sank.
A police official from the district of Cianjur in Java said authorities were alerted to the incident after bodies were discovered floating in an estuary on Friday morning.
"We have now found 22 dead bodies, most of them are children as they cannot swim," the official said, according to news agency AFP.
He said the boat had broken into several pieces.
A spokesman for the Indonesian search and rescue agency, BASARNAS, said his office was not advised of an incident involving an asylum seeker boat until 3pm local time on Friday.
He said the Australian Maritime and Safety Authority had contacted BASARNAS about the boat.
The latest tragedy in waters between Indonesia and Australia comes amid a ramping up in tensions between Canberra and Jakarta over the asylum seeker issue, and days ahead of talks in Jakarta between Prime Minister Tony Abbott and Indonesian President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono.
Mr Abbott and President Yudhoyno will meet on Monday, with asylum seeker policy expected to be at the top of the agenda.
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/2013/09/28/06/33/fears-for-70-asylum-seekers-still-missing (http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/2013/09/28/06/33/fears-for-70-asylum-seekers-still-missing)
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Yet our new PM refuses to comment about the deaths at sea ::). Abbott now realising Government and foreign diplomacy is a lot harder than simplistic three-word slogans in Opposition.
ps. Once again it's not illegal to seek asylum. Desperate people will risk their lives and it's the people smugglers that are exploiting their plight for $$$. This is a global problem.
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Yet our new PM refuses to comment about the deaths at sea ::). Abbott now realising Government and foreign diplomacy is a lot harder than simplistic three-word slogans in Opposition.
ps. Once again it's not illegal to seek asylum. Desperate people will risk their lives and it's the people smugglers that are exploiting their plight for $$$. This is a global problem.
Indeed.
:thumbsup
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And the longer this goes on the better the last government is going to look.
:cheers
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Yet our new PM refuses to comment about the deaths at sea ::). Abbott now realising Government and foreign diplomacy is a lot harder than simplistic three-word slogans in Opposition.
ps. Once again it's not illegal to seek asylum. Desperate people will risk their lives and it's the people smugglers that are exploiting their plight for $$$. This is a global problem.
They are economic refugee's even Bob Carr admitted this. They are not being persecuted in Indonesia and majority of them aren't even from Indonesia.
1965 Labor policy's encouraged people to pay smugglers and risk their lives. Their policy's will never look good because whether you like it or not the majority of Australian public don't want people smugglers controlling our immigration. Currently Abbott is looking tough by standing up for our sovereignty and doing what he was voted in to do to and that is to stop the boats.
For the record I don't think the boats will ever be stopped. The ALP encouraged so many people to attempt to cross the water that it will now be near impossible to fully stop but if they can at least cut back the number of boat arrivals that would be a good result.
-
Yet our new PM refuses to comment about the deaths at sea ::). Abbott now realising Government and foreign diplomacy is a lot harder than simplistic three-word slogans in Opposition.
ps. Once again it's not illegal to seek asylum. Desperate people will risk their lives and it's the people smugglers that are exploiting their plight for $$$. This is a global problem.
They are economic refugee's even Bob Carr admitted this. They are not being persecuted in Indonesia and majority of them aren't even from Indonesia.
1965 Labor policy's encouraged people to pay smugglers and risk their lives. Their policy's will never look good because whether you like it or not the majority of Australian public don't want people smugglers controlling our immigration. Currently Abbott is looking tough by standing up for our sovereignty and doing what he was voted in to do to and that is to stop the boats.
For the record I don't think the boats will ever be stopped. The ALP encouraged so many people to attempt to cross the water that it will now be near impossible to fully stop but if they can at least cut back the number of boat arrivals that would be a good result.
:lol
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Yet our new PM refuses to comment about the deaths at sea ::). Abbott now realising Government and foreign diplomacy is a lot harder than simplistic three-word slogans in Opposition.
ps. Once again it's not illegal to seek asylum. Desperate people will risk their lives and it's the people smugglers that are exploiting their plight for $$$. This is a global problem.
They are economic refugee's even Bob Carr admitted this. They are not being persecuted in Indonesia and majority of them aren't even from Indonesia.
1965 Labor policy's encouraged people to pay smugglers and risk their lives. Their policy's will never look good because whether you like it or not the majority of Australian public don't want people smugglers controlling our immigration. Currently Abbott is looking tough by standing up for our sovereignty and doing what he was voted in to do to and that is to stop the boats.
For the record I don't think the boats will ever be stopped. The ALP encouraged so many people to attempt to cross the water that it will now be near impossible to fully stop but if they can at least cut back the number of boat arrivals that would be a good result.
Agree will take a fair while to cut back on the boats thanks to the Labor party
-
Yet our new PM refuses to comment about the deaths at sea ::). Abbott now realising Government and foreign diplomacy is a lot harder than simplistic three-word slogans in Opposition.
ps. Once again it's not illegal to seek asylum. Desperate people will risk their lives and it's the people smugglers that are exploiting their plight for $$$. This is a global problem.
They are economic refugee's even Bob Carr admitted this. They are not being persecuted in Indonesia and majority of them aren't even from Indonesia.
1965 Labor policy's encouraged people to pay smugglers and risk their lives. Their policy's will never look good because whether you like it or not the majority of Australian public don't want people smugglers controlling our immigration. Currently Abbott is looking tough by standing up for our sovereignty and doing what he was voted in to do to and that is to stop the boats.
For the record I don't think the boats will ever be stopped. The ALP encouraged so many people to attempt to cross the water that it will now be near impossible to fully stop but if they can at least cut back the number of boat arrivals that would be a good result.
Agree will take a fair while to cut back on the boats thanks to the Labor party
:lol
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I have to wonder how long the Liberal stooges will blame Labor?
Probably right up to the next election.
:lol
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Tony brushes off 80 death
Gw adof :bow
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*sweeps under carpet*
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I'm starting to think this problem cannot be solved by an individual country no matter what they do,it requires a global effort....which we will never get,not as long as my ass points to the ground
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I'm starting to thing this problem cannot be solved by an individual country no matter what they do,it requires a global effort....which we will never get,not as long as my ass points to the ground
:yep
As long as the grass is always greener somewhere else it's always going to happen. Especially when you look at the poo countries they come from.
Maybe Tony can invest in a few of these:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/38/Bundesarchiv_DVM_10_Bild-23-63-65%2C_U-Boot_U_36.jpg)
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Again I'm talking pie in the sky stuff,but you will get no boats when people in those places have the required economic prosperity and where individual freedom and democracy is valued ,respected and followed
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I have to wonder how long the Liberal stooges will blame Labor?
Probably right up to the next election.
:lol
Tony the godsend will have everything fixed up soon don't worry
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Alot of benefit of the doubt being thrown about here by many pretending in the past and present to hold governments accountable.
Please dont forget Mr Abbotts promise that "we WILL stop the boats"
Just a couple of Weeks into government and not only have hey not stopped the boats but there are deaths on their watches. Oh the Rudd government *insert ::) *
Personally the majority of the blame should be put on those who paid to risk their lives, but.....
Not that this will be addressed by the Liberal Australian Government, they only report the boats when they tell you you need to be told
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80 people die
Don't tell anyone
No one really dies!
Well played tony :clapping
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Looks like contact with the Australian people (part 4 of 4 has) been well and truly broken, two weeks into government.
(http://www.robwalkerpoet.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/StopTheBoats.jpg)
At this rate they may as well burn the rest of it by cup day. :lol. Tony's signature and all.
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Personally the majority of the blame should be put on those who paid to risk their lives, but.....
I would be putting the majority of the blame on the people smugglers who profit at the expense of people's lives.
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Looks like contact with the Australian people (part 4 of 4 has) been well and truly broken, two weeks into government.
(http://www.robwalkerpoet.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/StopTheBoats.jpg)
At this rate they may as well burn the rest of it by cup day. :lol. Tony's signature and all.
Speaking of Abbotts contract, part 1 of 4 'End wasteful spending' is starting to look a little shaky...
http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/ministers-claimed-costs-for-wedding-trip-20130928-2ul6a.html
But im certain the costs were offset by not having to rescue the latest boat arrivals.
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They are economic refugee's even Bob Carr admitted this. They are not being persecuted in Indonesia and majority of them aren't even from Indonesia.
The majority of countries around the world are third world crapholes. Even the so-called stable ones are dangerous places. Corruption and lawlessness is the norm. I mentioned before, a work colleague who I met from Sao Paulo told me he needs to live in a suburb surrounded by a security wall to protect his home and family.
Indonesia isn't a signatory to the UN refugee convention. So yes not being Indonesian means they are in limbo in Indonesia - they are unable to return to their country of origin; they can't settle in Indonesia lawfully even if they wished to; and they have little prospect of being resettled in a third country. The people smugglers avoid official Indonesian immigration channels anyway as they falsely promise safe passage to Australia (in return for $$$) before the asylum seekers reach Indonesia.
The vast majority of asylum seekers that come by boat to Australia are eventually given refugee status and are settled in Australia. It's just our Governments don't want the public knowing about that for political reasons. Both parties only introduced "tough" measures in the face of poor polls prior to an upcoming election (Coalition 2001; Labor 2013).
Labor policy's encouraged people to pay smugglers and risk their lives. Their policy's will never look good because whether you like it or not the majority of Australian public don't want people smugglers controlling our immigration. Currently Abbott is looking tough by standing up for our sovereignty and doing what he was voted in to do to and that is to stop the boats.
For the record I don't think the boats will ever be stopped. The ALP encouraged so many people to attempt to cross the water that it will now be near impossible to fully stop but if they can at least cut back the number of boat arrivals that would be a good result.
The boats started coming in these numbers under the Howard Government in 1999. There was no asylum issue to deal with when Labor was in power for 13 years before Johnny aside from introducing mandatory detention in the early 90s when a few hundred Chinese asylum seekers arrived post-Tiananmen square massacre. So to blame Labor for why people are coming by boat in these numbers is ludicrous. Labor didn't cause a civil war in northern Sri Lanka or in Sudan, nor a ultra-conservative theocratic dictatorship in Iran with its fruitcake leader, nor rogue states and war in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia, etc. As Gigantor says, when people in these places have the required economic prosperity and individual freedoms then the boats will stop, be it when there's a Australian Labor or Liberal Government. The refugee problem is a global one. Most first world nations face increasing number of asylum seekers; not just Australia.
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I would be putting the majority of the blame on the people smugglers who profit at the expense of people's lives.
:yep
Add to that the corruption and exploitation back home of their homeland's natural wealth and general population either by warring despots and their henchmen's lust for power or by foreign multinationals who only pay a pittance to the locals to work in unsafe working environments that we wouldn't tolerate in Australia. You sow what you seed. $2 a day wasn't it Gina! ::)
And the longer this goes on the better the last government is going to look.
On this issue I wouldn't say that. This only shows all sides didn't/don't have a clue to handle such a global issue and the political race to the lowest common denominator pandering to worst in us has been found out.
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I'm starting to think this problem cannot be solved by an individual country no matter what they do,it requires a global effort....which we will never get,not as long as my ass points to the ground
Again I'm talking pie in the sky stuff,but you will get no boats when people in those places have the required economic prosperity and where individual freedom and democracy is valued ,respected and followed
Yes and Yes.
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The boats started coming in these numbers under the Howard Government in 1999. There was no asylum issue to deal with when Labor was in power for 13 years before Johnny aside from introducing mandatory detention in the early 90s when a few hundred Chinese asylum seekers arrived post-Tiananmen square massacre. So to blame Labor for why people are coming by boat in these numbers is ludicrous. Labor didn't cause a civil war in northern Sri Lanka or in Sudan, nor a ultra-conservative theocratic dictatorship in Iran with its fruitcake leader, nor rogue states and war in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia, etc. As Gigantor says, when people in these places have the required economic prosperity and individual freedoms then the boats will stop, be it when there's a Australian Labor or Liberal Government. The refugee problem is a global one. Most first world nations face increasing number of asylum seekers; not just Australia.
We are sending Sri Lankan arrivals back to Sri Lanka as it is now safe they are coming here for economic reasons. I don't understand why you and 1965 believe these people are entitled to jump the cues of people in that have been waiting years in UN camps that apply for refugee status through the correct channels. There are closer UN signatory countries to Iran then Australia these people are middle class citizens that work and save up alot of money to travel via boat. also some do fly into Indonesia with the correct documentation they just destroy it before they get on the boat. The numbers don't lie the boat numbers increased by a huge number under labor after they changed the policy.
I don't think we'll ever agree on the boat arrival issue as we have different beliefs. I don't believe in rewarding people who pay and encourage the people smuggling business. I believe that its within our rights to control our immigration policy and not give it out on luck of who survives a risky boat journey.
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I would even go further back than 1999.Post Vietnam war mid 70s and onwards we had the Vietnamese refugees fleeing communist rule.This happened initially in the dying months of the Whitlam Government and then under the Fraser government.As long as economic,political hardship reigns people will look to improve their lot in life,and I cant say I blame them I would do the same.
How we deal with this issue is up to us,but people will continue to flee hardship that's a given
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We are sending Sri Lankan arrivals back to Sri Lanka as it is now safe they are coming here for economic reasons. I don't understand why you and 1965 believe these people are entitled to jump the cues of people in that have been waiting years in UN camps that apply for refugee status through the correct channels. There are closer UN signatory countries to Iran then Australia these people are middle class citizens that work and save up alot of money to travel via boat. also some do fly into Indonesia with the correct documentation they just destroy it before they get on the boat. The numbers don't lie the boat numbers increased by a huge number under labor after they changed the policy.
I don't think we'll ever agree on the boat arrival issue as we have different beliefs. I don't believe in rewarding people who pay and encourage the people smuggling business. I believe that its within our rights to control our immigration policy and not give it out on luck of who survives a risky boat journey.
Suggest that you actually read my posts before posting crap like this.
:banghead
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from what i understand this last boat was still in indonesian waters when it started to sink. the illegal boat people decided to ring Australian authorities to save them, but we dont have any rights in Indonesian waters. Indeed our entry in Indonesian waters would have caused a serious international incident. These wankers then got of the boat and made scandalous allegations that Australia didnt respond. Get stuffed homos, we dont need these dirty little liars in this country.
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Ramps ..it was a boat load of marauding homosexuals on that boat heading to our shores?
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from what i understand this last boat was still in indonesian waters when it started to sink. the illegal boat people decided to ring Australian authorities to save them, but we dont have any rights in Indonesian waters. Indeed our entry in Indonesian waters would have caused a serious international incident. These wankers then got of the boat and made scandalous allegations that Australia didnt respond. Get stuffed homos, we dont need these dirty little liars in this country.
Exactly post of the year, it was in Indo waters, and while it was a tragedy it is not up to Australia to police Indo waters for their encouraged people smuggling operations
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One - end wasteful spending
Cutting 4.5 billion from foreign aid
Wasteful food and water for hungry thirsty people
:clapping
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from what i understand this last boat was still in indonesian waters when it started to sink. the illegal boat people decided to ring Australian authorities to save them, but we dont have any rights in Indonesian waters. Indeed our entry in Indonesian waters would have caused a serious international incident. These wankers then got of the boat and made scandalous allegations that Australia didnt respond. Get stuffed homos, we dont need these dirty little liars in this country.
100% correct Ramps. :clapping They called Australia like they were calling a Taxi. It would have been far quicker for them to Call Indonesian Authorities for assistance.
I'm sick of the Media also beating the drum on this. Some even reported early on that we turned this Boat around just to get attention!! :banghead
Now thinking outside the square, the only reason why Boat People are choosing Australia is plain and simple....Christmas Island. Why don't we flog off Christmas Island to Indonesia? Then their boat trip to Australia would change from 186 Nautical miles to about 1100 Nautical Miles. A distance that is near on impossible to take for any of the craft that the smugglers are currently using.
We've already sucked all the super-phosphate off the island and all that is really left there now are Asylum seekers and red crabs.
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Now thinking outside the square, the only reason why Boat People are choosing Australia is plain and simple....Christmas Island. Why don't we flog off Christmas Island to Indonesia? Then their boat trip to Australia would change from 186 Nautical miles to about 1100 Nautical Miles. A distance that is near on impossible to take for any of the craft that the smugglers are currently using.
We've already sucked all the super-phosphate off the island and all that is really left there now are Asylum seekers and red crabs.
You are forgetting Ashmore reef as well.
And the problem is that us owning Christmas Island gives us control over a whole lot of ocean that we don't want to give up.
What we should do is evacuate Christmas island, make it unliveable but keep it as our territory.
An "accidental" nuclear explosion maybe?
:lol
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Now thinking outside the square, the only reason why Boat People are choosing Australia is plain and simple....Christmas Island. Why don't we flog off Christmas Island to Indonesia? Then their boat trip to Australia would change from 186 Nautical miles to about 1100 Nautical Miles. A distance that is near on impossible to take for any of the craft that the smugglers are currently using.
We've already sucked all the super-phosphate off the island and all that is really left there now are Asylum seekers and red crabs.
You are forgetting Ashmore reef as well.
And the problem is that us owning Christmas Island gives us control over a whole lot of ocean that we don't want to give up.
What we should do is evacuate Christmas island, make it unliveable but keep it as our territory.
An "accidental" nuclear explosion maybe?
:lol
Good point 65. I forgot about Ashmore Reef. A suggestion that does not involve a half life, We could turn both into free range Maximum Security Correctional facilities ala Papillon. These sorts of facilities would instantly make these islands "no go" areas.
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Now thinking outside the square, the only reason why Boat People are choosing Australia is plain and simple....Christmas Island. Why don't we flog off Christmas Island to Indonesia? Then their boat trip to Australia would change from 186 Nautical miles to about 1100 Nautical Miles. A distance that is near on impossible to take for any of the craft that the smugglers are currently using.
We've already sucked all the super-phosphate off the island and all that is really left there now are Asylum seekers and red crabs.
You are forgetting Ashmore reef as well.
And the problem is that us owning Christmas Island gives us control over a whole lot of ocean that we don't want to give up.
What we should do is evacuate Christmas island, make it unliveable but keep it as our territory.
An "accidental" nuclear explosion maybe?
:lol
Or just have n0rf play some home games there. ;D
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:lol :rollin :lol
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Now thinking outside the square, the only reason why Boat People are choosing Australia is plain and simple....Christmas Island. Why don't we flog off Christmas Island to Indonesia? Then their boat trip to Australia would change from 186 Nautical miles to about 1100 Nautical Miles. A distance that is near on impossible to take for any of the craft that the smugglers are currently using.
We've already sucked all the super-phosphate off the island and all that is really left there now are Asylum seekers and red crabs.
You are forgetting Ashmore reef as well.
And the problem is that us owning Christmas Island gives us control over a whole lot of ocean that we don't want to give up.
What we should do is evacuate Christmas island, make it unliveable but keep it as our territory.
An "accidental" nuclear explosion maybe?
:lol
Good point 65. I forgot about Ashmore Reef. A suggestion that does not involve a half life, We could turn both into free range Maximum Security Correctional facilities ala Papillon. These sorts of facilities would instantly make these islands "no go" areas.
Christmas Island should be like the greek island in the Guns of Navarone. Stick a couple of massive cannons on their and give them some target practice to do ;D
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Dem boats just keep on a coming.
Boat carrying about 60 asylum seekers arrives at Christmas Island
October 17, 2013 - 3:18PM
Judith Ireland
Breaking News Reporter
A boat carrying about 60 asylum seekers has arrived at Christmas Island.
Fairfax Media photographs show a boat carrying men, women and children who appear to be of Middle Eastern and African descent arriving at the island on Thursday.
Under a new communications regime imposed by the Coalition, the government no longer announces or confirms each boat as it arrives.
Immigration Minister Scott Morrison instead provides a weekly update on Operation Sovereign Borders, with the next briefing expected on Friday.
According to the last official briefing on October 11, five boats have arrived since the Coalition was sworn in.
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/boat-carrying-about-60-asylum-seekers-arrives-at-christmas-island-20131017-2vokx.html#ixzz2hx888ZC8
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What an absolute dick this moron is.
Minister wants boat people called illegals
Date October 20, 2013
Bianca Hall
Immigration Minister Scott Morrison has instructed departmental and detention centre staff to publicly refer to asylum seekers as ''illegal'' arrivals and as ''detainees'', rather than clients.
The directive has been criticised as a ''profound'' shift by a leading asylum seeker agency, which says the new terms are designed to dehumanise people.
In an email to detention centre staff, obtained by Fairfax Media, a department official writes: ''The department has received correspondence from the minister clarifying his expectations about the department's use of terminology. Accordingly we as [sic] that our service providers also adhere to the below instructions.''
These include calling all people who arrive in Australia by boat ''illegal maritime arrivals''.
In 2007, Labor changed the Howard government's wording on asylum seekers from ''illegal'' to ''irregular'' maritime arrivals, in recognition of the fact it is not illegal under Australian domestic law or international law to claim asylum. The new directive reverses this.
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/minister-wants-boat-people-called-illegals-20131019-2vtl0.html#ixzz2iC5RE9MA
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What an absolute dick this moron is.
Minister wants boat people called illegals
Date October 20, 2013
Bianca Hall
Immigration Minister Scott Morrison has instructed departmental and detention centre staff to publicly refer to asylum seekers as ''illegal'' arrivals and as ''detainees'', rather than clients.
The directive has been criticised as a ''profound'' shift by a leading asylum seeker agency, which says the new terms are designed to dehumanise people.
In an email to detention centre staff, obtained by Fairfax Media, a department official writes: ''The department has received correspondence from the minister clarifying his expectations about the department's use of terminology. Accordingly we as [sic] that our service providers also adhere to the below instructions.''
These include calling all people who arrive in Australia by boat ''illegal maritime arrivals''.
In 2007, Labor changed the Howard government's wording on asylum seekers from ''illegal'' to ''irregular'' maritime arrivals, in recognition of the fact it is not illegal under Australian domestic law or international law to claim asylum. The new directive reverses this.
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/minister-wants-boat-people-called-illegals-20131019-2vtl0.html#ixzz2iC5RE9MA
That's a great idea, call them for what they are.
"Clients" LMAO I wonder who came up with that term.
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Hands up who voted this prick into office.
Scott Morrison defends calling asylum seekers 'illegal'
Immigration Minister Scott Morrison says he is simply calling ''a spade a spade'' by directing public servants to refer to asylum seekers as ''illegal''.
''I'm not going to make any apologies for not using politically correct language to describe something that I am trying to stop,'' he said.
Mr Morrison has come under fire for telling immigration staff that boat arrivals must be called ''illegal maritime arrivals'', and asylum seekers in detention must be called ''detainees'' instead of ''clients''.
''I'm not going to engage in some sort of clever language to try and mask anything here,'' he said.
''I'm going to call a spade a spade.''
Mr Morrison said his directive simply concerned the way asylum seekers arrived.
''People who have entered Australia illegally by boat have illegally entered by boat,'' he said.
''I've never said that it is illegal to claim asylum. That's not what the term refers to. It refers to their mode of entry.''
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/scott-morrison-defends-calling-asylum-seekers-illegal-20131021-2vw0r.html#ixzz2iLHhwO19
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Yes what a prick for suggesting we call people what they actually are instead of incorporating the Orwellian newspeak devised by the far-left.
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Scott Morrison is 100% correct on all these matters. :clapping
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Orwellian newspeak devised by the far-left.
Like 'stop the boats' ;D
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Still LMFAO over "client"
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Still LMFAO over "client"
So what do we call them?
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* using terms like ''illegal' to dehumanize people merely using their human rights of seeking sutiable conditions to live
* not giving the public infomation in regards to people comming to the country on boats / incidents in 'detention centers'. giving infomation once per week or not at all
* pepper spraying people on trains for not having a ticket
* removing foriegn aid for water/food
*raising debt ceiling to 500 billion
*not forcing ASADA into banning EFC ASAP
*going to fight a fire instead of running the country
its all looking worryingly nazi-ish
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The ever reliable Godwin's Law. Gotta love it.
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The ever reliable Godwin's Law. Gotta love it.
What an intellectual prat you are.
:lol
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The ever reliable Godwin's Law. Gotta love it.
(http://www.afr.com/rw/2009-2014/AFR/2012/10/09/Photos/c06b78ec-1241-11e2-a710-5c1073699169_tony_abbott_ditch_the_witch.jpg)
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Sorry Bent's, you lose. Godwin's Law has been invoked. ;D
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Burn the witch
Gas the Jews
...
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(http://i.imgflip.com/4dhkt.jpg)
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Fortress were a really good band.
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I liked Man O War
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All men play on 10. Never gonna turn it down again.
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Still LMFAO over "client"
So what do we call them?
Italy rescues more than 700 migrants in Mediterranean as PM urges EU action
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-25/italy-rescues-more-than-700-migrants/5047450
but this doesnt dehumanize them enough. so we should stick with boat people, stanty eyes, sanddiggers etc. :thumbsup
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(http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/6/26/1372225258833/889af3f6-86c2-4621-8027-7089bb7e8589-460x276.jpeg)
Home | Sky News Australia
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43 mins ago - PM says boats were stopped in 50 days Play ... Tanya Plibersek has criticised the eligibility changes for bushfire victims to receive emergency funds.
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6 mins ago - Labor deputy leader Tanya Plibersek says the government is hurting communities affected by fire through its changes to disaster recovery payments. More.
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11 mins ago - LABOR deputy leader Tanya Plibersek says the government is hurting communities ... THE prime minister says it's taken just 50 days for his new government to make good on its pledge to stop the boats. ... End failure mentality, PM tells Tasmania ... US rap promoter James "Jimmy the Henchman" Rosemond has been ...
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Tony is stopping the boats. ;D
Jakarta sparks boat standoff
Date November 9, 2013
Michael Bachelard, Natalie O'Brien and David Wroe
Indonesia has declared it will refuse to take back asylum seekers rescued by Australian ships unless there is a threat to their lives, as a standoff between the countries continued off Java on Friday night.
Australia's demands that Indonesia accept 63 asylum seekers plucked from a boat has brought the blunt refusal by Jakarta.
As an Australian boat carrying the asylum seekers inched closer to Indonesia late on Friday, the impasse was further damaging relations already strained by revelations of widespread spying from the Australian embassy in Jakarta.
(http://images.theage.com.au/2013/11/08/4908637/an-Tandberg-20131108222744293580.jpg)
The incident began when the Australian Rescue Co-ordination Centre notified Indonesia of a distress call from a boat 57 nautical miles south of Indonesia about 9.30am on Thursday.
The boat reported engine trouble but according to the Indonesian search and rescue agency Basarnas, when navy vessel HMAS Ballarat arrived about three hours later, the crew found the engine was working.
The Australian vessel sailed away. "After they left, the engine apparently really was broken," said Basarnas deputy officer in charge, Adi Fachroni Azis.
It is understood the Australian customs ship Ocean Protector then joined the vessel to ensure its safety and sailed alongside it towards Indonesia, as it asked Indonesia to collect the asylum seekers. In the early hours of the morning, the boat's 63 passengers were shifted onto the Australian ship.
It is unclear whether they had sabotaged the boat's engine after the Ballarat left them, but if they did, it would highlight the risk of any Australian policy of trying to turn seaworthy boats back to Indonesia.
Indonesia's Co-ordinating Minister for Legal, Political and Security Affairs, Djoko Suyanto, rammed home his country's refusal to take the asylum seekers in a text message to the ABC late on Friday.
''The Indonesian government never agreed to such wishes or policies by Australia,'' he said. ''We have expressed this point of view since the Rudd government and there are no changes in our policy in relation to asylum seekers who want to go to Australia in the current Tony Abbott government. Australia already has its own detention centres in Nauru and PNG so they should send these asylum seekers [there], not to Indonesia.''
Ocean Protector, with the rescued asylum seekers on board, moved closer to Java on Friday as Immigration Minister Scott Morrison tried to persuade minister Djoko Suyanto to send a boat to take the people back to Indonesia.
Indonesian Foreign Minister Marty Natalegawa outlined a new harder line by Jakarta.
Asked if Jakarta would take asylum seekers from Australian vessels if safety of life at sea was not an issue, he said: "Under what circumstance are we bringing them to Indonesia? There wouldn't be any apparent need for them to be brought back to Indonesia".
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/jakarta-sparks-boat-standoff-20131108-2x77g.html#ixzz2k4nRHsH2
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Tony Abbott is fast becoming the most incompetent PM in recent History.
The man is a bumbling fool who thinks he can just bully countries to get what he wants.
Abbott plays politics with diplomacy
November 9, 2013
Tom Allard
Once again the Abbott government has needlessly antagonised Indonesia. Attempting to return a vessel laden with asylum seekers to Indonesia at a time when the country is furious about Fairfax Media's revelations of Australian spying activity across the archipelago was dumb.
To do it while Foreign Affairs Minister Julie Bishop and Defence Minister David Johnston were in Indonesia was pointlessly provocative and only added to the likelihood Australia would be rebuffed.
Returning boats to Indonesia is hardly critical operationally to stemming the flow of asylum seekers to Australia. It is a purely political policy. Abbott needs to show the Australian public he can, indeed, turn back the boats. But Labor's PNG Solution has already done most of the new government's work for it. Yet Abbott and his Immigration Minister Scott Morrison keep pushing, apparently blase about the anger it provokes in Indonesia, where issues of sovereignty remain acute after centuries of colonialism.
Also undercutting the government's authority is the dome of secrecy it has placed over information. Morrison's press conference on Friday was a farce as he declined to inform the Australian public what was actually going on with the boat stand-off.
In Jakarta on Friday, the same principle was being applied, with potential diplomatic ramifications as Senator Johnston failed to appear at a highly anticipated press conference.
A large pool of Indonesian media were waiting to hear from our new Defence Minster, encouraged by comments on Thursday by Indonesian Defence Minister Purnomo Yusgiantoro that they should turn up and find out directly from the Australian about the extent of our wire-tapping operations across the archipelago.
Instead, Senator Johnston hot-footed it out of the capital, citing a prior engagement in Perth and leaving Purnomo to explain his absence.
The Indonesian press corps were fuming. It was the second time in little over a month that they had been denied access to an Australian leader. Abbott's refusal to allow them to attend his press conference when he visited earned a formal rebuke from the local journalists' union.
Senator Johnston's office said they never intended to attend any press conference and that the meeting between the two men went ''well''.
Even so, the snub - real or perceived - is important. The Indonesian press has been generally savage in its assessment of the two issues undermining ties between the countries: asylum seekers and surveillance.
Whether it was a misunderstanding or not, the Indonesian press will likely remain riled, and that means more unfavourable stories and broadcasts.
The deep disquiet within the Indonesian government on both fronts is real, but the public anger fuelled by the media only encourages Jakarta to respond firmly.
Abbott insisted on Friday that ''we've got good and improving co-operation with Indonesia''.
The reality is quite different. Indonesia's threat to withdraw from intelligence co-operation on people smuggling remains on the table, despite - or perhaps because of - the latest Australian diplomatic foray.
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/comment/abbott-plays-politics-with-diplomacy-20131108-2x72i.html#ixzz2k6s2xOqW
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Foreign policy consists of peeing of Asians and staving Africans? :clapping
Not much of an upgrade on Pauline is it?
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:lol
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Scott Morrison shown to the lying prick that he is.
I really don't know how voters were sucked in by this lot.
Abbott's boat policy fails test
Date November 10, 2013
Michael Bachelard and Natalie O'brien
Prime Minister Tony Abbott's policy to turn back asylum seekers has failed a significant test, with 63 boat people arriving on Christmas Island after the government blinked in a mid-ocean standoff with Indonesia.
The backdown will be seen as a loss of face for the Coalition, which vowed before the election that Australian authorities would not act as a taxi service for refugees. It may also encourage other people-smuggling syndicates to try their hand.
Although Indonesia had agreed to Australia's request to take back asylum seekers on two recent occasions, critics of the government's turn-back policy had predicted Jakarta would eventually refuse to accept boats turned back by the Australian navy. That day came on Friday, when Indonesian Foreign Minister Marty Natalegawa outlined a harder-line doctrine and refused to take the asylum seekers unless there was a threat to life.
As Labor said the turn-back policy was ''in tatters'' and accused the Abbott government of inept diplomacy, Immigration Minister Scott Morrison tried to play down the stand-off in a statement issued on Saturday. He said that overnight on Friday the Indonesians has advised Australian officials that they were ''reviewing'' the request to take the boat back.
He said he welcomed Indonesia's ''review'', but ''in the best interests of the safety of the passengers and crew'' he had ordered the asylum seekers to be taken to Christmas Island for ''rapid onward transfer to Manus Island or Nauru''.
However, Agus Barnas, a spokesman for Indonesia's co-ordinating minister, Djoko Suyanto, said on Saturday: ''As far as I'm concerned, there is no review of the government of Indonesia's position/standpoint on the refugees who wish to go to Australia.''
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/abbotts-boat-policy-fails-test-20131109-2x8w5.html#ixzz2kAZSwYWQ
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Scott Morrison shown to the lying prick that he is.
I really don't know how voters were sucked in by this lot.
Don't think one single voter was sucked in at all, the real issue was that Labor could not provide a credible alternative and were a laughing stock with their back stabbing leadership shuffling.
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Be afraid and stop the b ... ummm ..... future wannabee naturalised Aussie cricketer :lol
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BYr9ZfvCYAAObWQ.jpg)
https://twitter.com/abcnews/status/399410131525332992/photo/1
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More Bully boy tactics from the worst PM in my memory.
And the boats keep coming.
LMAO at Julie Bishop running for cover.
:lol
Tony Abbott warns Jakarta on refusal to accept asylum-seeker boats
Date November 12, 2013
Mark Kenny
Chief political correspondent
Prime Minister Tony Abbott has fired a verbal warning to Jakarta that Australia is not happy over a standoff in which a boatload of asylum seekers landed on Australian territory, despite being rescued in the Indonesian search-and-rescue zone.
It came as two more boats were reported to have been intercepted by Australian border protection authorities, although the government has not confirmed that.
In what appeared to be a calculated measure to remind Indonesia of the new Australian government's resolve to stop the boats, Mr Abbott used a weekly radio appearance in Sydney to make plain Australia's view of who was at fault over the Indonesian refusal to accept the asylum seekers.
"These people were in a search-and-rescue situation in the Indonesian search-and-rescue zone,'' Mr Abbott told radio station 2GB.
''Now, the normal international law is that if you are rescued in a country's search-and-rescue zone that country has an obligation to take you.
''You can go to the nearest port and the nearest port is normally the port that is in the country whose search-and-rescue zone you've been picked up in," Mr Abbott said.
The unusually strong comments run counter to the warm tones and plans of mutual co-operation expressed between Mr Abbott and Indonesian President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono just a month ago at APEC.
The tensions over boats come just days after Jakarta expressed strong objections to revelations of spying operations conducted by the Australian embassy in Jakarta.
Immigration and Border Protection Minister Scott Morrison also openly criticised Jakarta's change of heart after it had agreed to accept other vessels in similar circumstances. He described the refusal as ''very frustrating'' and a decision with "no real rhyme or reason to it necessarily".
After some confusion, fuelled by Mr Morrison's continued refusal to provide information, and a claim in the Jakarta Post that three boats had been refused, it is now clear that two boats have been rejected.
Asked about the facts of the situation and the status of the relationship with Jakarta, Foreign Affairs Minister Julie Bishop repeatedly referred reporters to Mr Morrison's office. The opposition branded that as "absurd".
Labor MP Andrew Leigh told Fairfax Media on Monday that Indonesia should be treated with respect. ''They are the fourth largest population size in the world, a very important relationship for Australia being dealt tremendous blows by the to-ing and fro-ing, the back and forth that is this government's asylum-seeker policies," he said.
''It appears now that the reason that he [Scott Morrison] wants a general to stand next to him, is so he can shield behind that general and refuse to answer questions.''
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/tony-abbott-warns-jakarta-on-refusal-to-accept-asylumseeker-boats-20131111-2xch7.html#ixzz2kMHeWJOK
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Couple of words in this one that you don't see often: "fealty" and "craven"
Translated they mean Tony is a useless prick.
:lol
A craven Tony Abbott's refusal to discuss human rights in Sri Lanka cheapened the Commonwealth
November 18, 2013 - 9:52AM
Ben Doherty
Tony Abbott came to Sri Lanka to praise President Mahinda Rajapakse, not to bury him under the weight of human rights abuse allegations that completely dominated this Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting
"We are here to praise as much as judge," he told the forum's opening meeting, lauding the ending of Sri Lanka's civil war, and the development in the country since.
For his fealty, he was rewarded. Sri Lanka has vowed to further help Abbott with his number one domestic priority, "stopping the boats" of asylum seekers looking to come to Australia.
The countries' existing co-operation has been extended, with Australia giving Sri Lanka two patrol boats, so that asylum seekers might be intercepted before they leave Sri Lankan waters.
(The inconvenient truth that navy sailors have been arrested and charged with running the biggest people-smuggling ring in the country is being, publicly at least, played down).
Mr Abbott came to CHOGM, a multi-lateral meeting of 53 member nations, with an entirely domestic agenda. He needed Sri Lankan support to combat people smuggling, and so was unwilling to criticise his hosts.
While human rights concerns – forced abductions, torture, and extrajudicial killings by state forces, land seizures by the military, and oppression of political opponents – dominated every public CHOGM event, Abbott sidestepped these at every turn.
"We accept that sometimes in difficult circumstances, difficult things happen," he said of torture allegations, instead focusing on the progress that had been made, and on Australia's co-operation at sea.
But Abbott's refusal to even countenance Sri Lanka's ongoing human rights issues, in contradiction to the position of the UN and his own foreign affairs department, was craven and irresponsible.
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/a-craven-tony-abbotts-refusal-to-discuss-human-rights-in-sri-lanka-cheapened-the-commonwealth-20131118-2xpmh.html#ixzz2kxNk98me
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Stop the boats
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So they not buying fishing boats now...
Cause the phone tapped the presidential wife
Gw tony :clapping
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So they not buying fishing boats now...
Cause the phone tapped the presidential wife
Gw tony :clapping
Pretty sure the tapping was pre-Tony but don't let a little thing like that get in the road of some scorn.
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So they not buying fishing boats now...
Cause the phone tapped the presidential wife
Gw tony :clapping
Pretty sure the tapping was pre-Tony but don't let a little thing like that get in the road of some scorn.
was reported it began with the Ruddster yet some want to think it just started with TA
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Can't believe we're the only government spying :banghead
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Obama spying on Merkel too
So they not buying fishing boats now...
Cause the phone tapped the presidential wife
Gw tony :clapping
Pretty sure the tapping was pre-Tony but don't let a little thing like that get in the road of some scorn.
was reported it began with the Ruddster yet some want to think it just started with TA
clearly rudd is also a tosser
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And all because one-term Tony won't say I'm sorry.
What is wrong with these Liberal pricks?
Tony Abbott refuses to apologise for Indonesian spying program
November 20, 2013 - 6:16AM
Michael Bachelard, Mark Kenny, David Wroe
Jakarta has pointedly warned Canberra that time is running out for a direct explanation of claims Australia bugged the Indonesian President, adding that Tony Abbott's parliamentary explanation was not good enough.
Declaring the situation is ''not business as usual'', Indonesian Foreign Minister Marty Natalegawa said a step-up in the Indonesian response to Australia was being discussed at the highest levels.
''We'll continue to review the Indonesia-Australia relationship in general, not only regarding information exchange and intelligence. We'll continue to downgrade our relationship with them and it's up to them where the process ends," he said on Tuesday night.
This could involve changes to the exchange of information and co-operation on people smuggling or a blanket refusal to accept returned asylum seekers rescued at sea.
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/tony-abbott-refuses-to-apologise-for-indonesian-spying-program-20131119-2xsn4.html#ixzz2l7hyymne
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So they not buying fishing boats now...
Cause the phone tapped the presidential wife
Gw tony :clapping
Pretty sure the tapping was pre-Tony but don't let a little thing like that get in the road of some scorn.
Lmao
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And all because one-term Tony won't say I'm sorry.
What is wrong with these Liberal pricks?
Nothing
They did the Australian public a favour by getting rid of the Punch and Judy labor show
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Rookie error by the PM.
The guy is a moron.
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Indonesia is in a relationship with Australia - it's complicated
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Tony Abbott is an opposition hyena, not a government statesman. He does not have the diplomacy skills, the tact or the refinement required to deal with the Indonesians and neither does his foreign minister.
Admittedly, while this was one that came out of nowhere for a new PM, it is still embarrassing that his inability to arbitrate or moderate a dispute has been put on display so early in his tenure. It is a key skill of the job and he hasn't got it. His policy of stopping the boats is in tatters now.
Australia has turned a blind eye to the massacres and human rights abuses of this so called democracy for some 40 years, I would have preferred the relationship was downgraded over a point of difference on human rights, rather than the bumblings of an incompetent politician.
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Too much of a limpdick to bring it up with sir Lanka either
Abbott puts politics above war crimes | Lawyers Weekly
www.lawyersweekly.com.au › News
14 hours ago - Australia's foremost legal human rights body has hit out at Tony Abbott for brushing aside alleged ... of failing to properly investigate allegations Sri Lankan forces killed up to 40,000 Tamil civilian
Hence I am thus referring to tony as limpdick mcgey
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Stop the boats?
Abbott, you idiot.
Spy row: Angry SBY suspends cooperation on people smuggling
By Indonesia correspondent George Roberts, staff
Indonesian president Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono says all military and intelligence cooperation with Australia is on hold until he gets a proper explanation as to why Australian spies tried to tap his phone.
Speaking in Jakarta today, an angry Mr Yudhoyono said Indonesia was suspending cooperation on people-smuggling issues, including combined maritime patrols.
And he said he was writing to Prime Minister Tony Abbott to demand an official explanation on why Australian spies monitored his phone and those of members of his inner circle, including his wife.
Mr Abbott later told the House of Representatives that he would be writing back "swiftly, fully and courteously" because "that is overwhelmingly in the interests of both our countries."
The PM again expressed his regret over the spying reports today, calling Mr Yudhoyono "perhaps one of the very best friends that Australia has anywhere in the world."
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-20/abbott-regrets-indonesias-spy-scandal-embarrassment/5105326
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Tony Abbott is an opposition hyena, not a government statesman. He does not have the diplomacy skills, the tact or the refinement required to deal with the Indonesians and neither does his foreign minister.
Admittedly, while this was one that came out of nowhere for a new PM, it is still embarrassing that his inability to arbitrate or moderate a dispute has been put on display so early in his tenure. It is a key skill of the job and he hasn't got it. His policy of stopping the boats is in tatters now.
Australia has turned a blind eye to the massacres and human rights abuses of this so called democracy for some 40 years, I would have preferred the relationship was downgraded over a point of difference on human rights, rather than the bumblings of an incompetent politician.
Nailed it!
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Stop the boats.
:lol
Indonesia official to let boats go to Australia
November 24, 2013
Megan Gorrey
A top Indonesian immigration official has vowed to no longer stand in the way of asylum seekers trying to make their way to Australian shores by boat as the fallout over the phone-tapping scandal worsens.
The comments, from the head of immigration at the Law and Human Rights Agency in Medan, come as asylum seekers in Cisarua, south of the Indonesian capital of Jakarta, say they hope to take advantage of the breakdown in co-operation with Australia and may take boats in the coming days.
The head of immigration at the Law and Human Rights Agency in North Sumatra, Rustanov, who has only one name, said surveillance efforts aimed at stopping boat traffic would be halted.
‘‘We have no business with Australia. Let boat people head there. No surveillance is needed,’’ he said, according to a report in The Jakarta Post.
The official said his office, in co-operation with police, had in the past frequently arrested asylum seekers attempting to take boats.
‘‘Now there is no need to waste energy arresting them,’’ Rustanov said.
Several Sri Lankan asylum seekers said they had read reports of a diplomatic crisis, in the wake of revelations Indonesian President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono’s phone was bugged by Australian spies, and said they were desperate to try to make the crossing to Christmas Island soon.
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/indonesia-official-to-let-boats-go-to-australia-20131124-2y39j.html#ixzz2lW1BU0RS
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Oh boohoo, it was done on the back of Australian resources anyway no doubt, like they would waste their money and resources for us anyhow.
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Take the 4.5 billion dollars not going towards foreign aid
And whack it into the stop the boat fund
Bobs your uncle
Imagine how many fishing boats u could buy
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All Tony had to do is come out and say " We are sorry that the President and his wife's phones were tapped. It will never happen under my government"
But no big tough one-term Tony had to strut around being the moron that he is.
The worst PM in my memory has NFI.
Rift with Indonesia over spying deepens
November 26, 2013
Michael Bachelard
Indonesia has said that talks with Australia over people smuggling and asylum seekers have stalled because of the phone-tapping row, flatly contradicting Immigration Minister Scott Morrison.
As Indonesian President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono declined for the third day to make a public statement about the letter he has received from Prime Minister Tony Abbott, the extent of the damage wrought by the spying revelations is becoming increasingly clear.
Indonesia's national police have confirmed they will make no attempt to catch asylum seekers leaving Indonesia on boats. They have withdrawn co-operation from the Australian Federal Police over cyber crime and terrorism operations. The chief of the Indonesian national police, General Sutarman, was reported by website Vivanews as saying: "Their intention is to go there, so it is not in our authority [to prevent them]."
A meeting of the countries' search and rescue agencies has been postponed and a personnel exchange program suspended.
Mr Morrison has been trying since last month to reach a deal with his counterpart, co-ordinating minister for legal, political and security, Djoko Suyanto, over which parts of Coalition asylum seeker policy are palatable to Indonesia.
On Monday Mr Morrison acknowledged he had not spoken to Air Chief Marshal Djoko since the phone-tapping revelation. He said talks at operational level were continuing but General Djoko's spokesman said that was untrue.
"Honestly, even the dialogue at technical level is temporarily stopped, too," he said. "We are still waiting for Mr President's instructions since he received the letter from Prime Minister Tony Abbott".
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/rift-with-indonesia-over-spying-deepens-20131125-2y68h.html#ixzz2lhWq0lpt
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All Tony had to do is come out and say " We are sorry that the President and his wife's phones were tapped. It will never happen under my government"
Would be a gross mistake that opens our country up to further risk and harm. Thankfully we now have adults in charge instead of children who gob off in knee-jerk image driven reactions at a rapid rate without placing any thought to consequences. All Abbot has done is prove how much more responsible, intuitive and Australia-first his diplomacy skills are compared to the kow-towing rudderless ship style of Gillard and Rudd. And your silence on the disgraceful and treasonous role of the 'impartial' NATIONAL broadcaster in this is breathtakingly deafening. Personally I would have Mark Scott charged with treason and aiding terrorism and at the very least the grub should have the common decency to stand down for a gross breach of his role as Editor In Chief for failing to uphold the charter of the ABC but I don't expect the fact he has allowed his poor governance to place Australian citizens and businesses at serious physical and financial risk to be a factor in his shameless vendetta against the current government.
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Some balance to the incessant anti-Abbott propaganda:
A Self-Defeating Spy Scandal in Indonesia
Over-hyping Australian snooping highlights Jakarta's own immaturity.
By
John Lee
Nov. 24, 2013 12:01 p.m. ET
The deterioration in ties between Australia and Indonesia over phone-tapping revelations is the first major diplomatic challenge for Tony Abbott's new government. While much of the focus is on the negative impact of the spat on Australian attempts to court Indonesia, far less consideration has been given to the damage that the episode might cause Jakarta in the future.
Revelations that Australian intelligence monitored the phone calls of President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, his wife, the vice president and other senior ministers have led the president to demand an explanation of Australian intelligence activity, as well as a personal apology from Mr. Abbott. Jakarta has recalled its ambassador from Canberra; is reconsidering bilateral cooperation on stemming the flow of Australian-bound asylum seekers arriving on Indonesian-flagged boats; has halted plans for joint military exercises in Darwin ; and threatened to delay the resumption of Australia's live cattle trade to the country.
The intelligence activity took place over a fortnight in 2009, when Labor's Kevin Rudd was still prime minister. Mr. Abbott is refusing to apologize for his country engaging in what is widely considered to be normal activity by intelligence services throughout the world. Although expressing "deep regret for embarrassment caused to the president and Indonesia," the Australian leader is adopting the ages-old principle of never commenting on allegations in relation to the intelligence activities of one's own country.
Besides, General Abdullah Mahmud Hendropriyono, former head of Indonesia's intelligence agency, admitted in 2004 that Jakarta similarly tapped into the phone calls of Australian politicians and officials during the 1999 East Timor crisis. This discredits any genuine sense of moral outrage that Jakarta might claim over this issue.
In immediate terms, this incident may do limited damage. Australia is not a major economic partner of Indonesia. Two-way trade constitutes only about 3% of Indonesia's total trade, while Australian firms are small players when it comes to foreign direct investment in the country. The two countries do need to cooperate on a range of security issues, including counterterrorism, but Jakarta has as much of a stake in that coordination as Canberra does.
But that doesn't mean the spat can't do long-term damage—to Indonesia. Jakarta is still a weak and vulnerable country in the early stages of its democratic rise after a volatile autocratic era. Public displays of government outrage and threats to wind back proposed security and maritime cooperation between the two countries on the basis that past Australian intelligence activity is a national and personal insult to the president is an immature response, and will significantly diminish Indonesia's economic and political attractiveness in the region.
Jakarta is heavily reliant on a good reputation among foreigners when it comes to FDI and purchase of government bonds. Indonesia is also attempting to lower its export reliance on commodities, and to encourage foreign firms to locate manufacturing plants in the country in order to establish itself as an important part of the regional supply chain, something it has so far largely failed to achieve.
To advance these objectives, it needs to compete with other regional developing countries such as China, Vietnam, Cambodia and more recently, Burma. Indonesia ranks poorly on all indices such as ease of doing business, corruption and transparency. But sovereign risk also comes into the equation. In the lead up to the July 2014 elections, Indonesia appears to be retreating back to bouts of economic nationalism including forcing foreign firms to divest majority stakes in mining projects after 10 years and imposing new taxes on these firms, and proposing new foreign ownership limits in key industries such as banking.
This is the backdrop for the current Australia-Indonesia dispute. There are still fears that a democratic government in Indonesia could choose to fan rather than constrain the rise of counterproductive nationalistic emotion. This is a poor foundation for sensible economic policy and diplomacy into the future.
Already Indonesia's reputation for sensibleness is in jeopardy in the region. Mr. Yudhoyono was forced to embark on a fence-mending visit to Malaysia four years ago after an innocuous Malaysian tourism advertisement containing a clip of Balinese pendet dancing caused outrage in Indonesia on the basis that this was an intolerable instance of cultural theft. The episode led to demonstrations against the Malaysian Embassy, burning of the Malaysian flag and youth groups symbolically calling for war against Malaysia.
The surveillance allegations against Australia are more serious than a Malaysian tourism ad, to be sure. But again Jakarta's petulant response raises questions about its ability to conduct itself as a mature regional power. Jakarta could have protested to Canberra robustly but privately. But rather than simply responding to populist outrage, escalation is being led by Mr. Yudhoyono and his government.
In seeking to openly punish Australia and extract a humiliating apology from Mr. Abbott, Jakarta is doing a bad job of convincing the region that a democratic and rising Indonesia will be far more predictable, stable and measured than it has been in the past.
Mr. Lee is the Michael Hintze fellow at the Centre for International Security Studies, Sydney University, and a non-resident senior scholar at the Hudson Institute in Washington D.C.
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304011304579217393946141318 (http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304011304579217393946141318)
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John Lee is correct in most of what he says.
But that doesn't make Tony Abbott a PM's boot lace.
One-term Tony is just not up to it.
:cheers
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrQPXXHUilU
i didnt know jimmy was an asian
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BbUUJSOCUAAzO2e.jpg:large)
:laugh:
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:lol
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42 boat people due to give birth (to citizens of Australia?) in the next 10 weeks
oh tony
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42 boat people due to give birth (to citizens of Australia?) in the next 10 weeks
oh tony
Come on Bents you can't blame Tony for this! There is no way he could have sex with 42 different women in 10 weeks! At least not while parliment is sitting. ;D
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As Laurie Oakes says, the voters will eventually wake up to this lot.
Morrison retreats from media on asylum seekers
December 28, 2013
Dan Harrison and Gareth Hutchens
Immigration Minister Scott Morrison has stopped holding weekly press conferences on asylum seeker boat arrivals, instead issuing a written statement with no opportunity for journalists to ask questions.
Mr Morrison put an end to the practice of the Immigration Department announcing asylum seeker boat arrivals in real time, saying this amounted to a ''shipping news service for people smugglers''.
Instead, he pledged to front weekly media briefings on the Coalition's progress in stopping asylum seeker boats. But he provided his last briefing for the year a week ago.
For the first time since late September, Mr Morrison did not appear before the media despite his office insisting he was not on leave. His spokesman would not say when or whether the briefings would resume, saying the government would have more to say on this in the new year.
''Weekly reports will continue to be issued on arrivals and transfers and media conferences will be called as and when required to deal with any significant or serious events or announcements,'' his spokesman said. ''The minister's office will continue to field inquiries from the media on issues relating to his portfolio and provide responses as appropriate.''
Press gallery veteran Laurie Oakes has criticised Mr Morrison's approach to the media, accusing him of arrogance. ''He sees it as getting at the press, but it's not. It's getting at the voters and eventually I think the voters will wake up,'' Oakes said in November.
Mr Morrison's office issued a statement on Friday saying no asylum seekers had arrived by boat in the past week. Over the week 42 asylum seekers were transferred to Nauru, bringing the population there to 841, with 1229 at Manus Island.
The statement said 355 asylum seekers had arrived in December, a 70 per cent decline on last December. Over the first 100 days of the Coalition's Operation Sovereign Borders, 1106 asylum seekers arrived, an 87 per cent fall on the previous 100 days, the statement said.
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/morrison-retreats-from-media-on-asylum-seekers-20131227-2zzsw.html#ixzz2ohlh2oHY
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http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2014-01-14/scott-morrison-says-he-will-stop-holding-weekly-asylum-seeker-b/5200158
Scott Morrison says he will stop holding weekly asylum seeker briefings
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They might have stopped the votes but at what cost.
One person dead, others seriously injured during violent Manus Island clashes
February 18, 2014 - 1:05PM
Sarah Whyte
Serious questions have been raised about Australia’s responsibility to asylum seekers held in offshore detention centres after violent clashes on Manus Island that left one asylum seeker dead, another shot and scores of others severely injured.
Immigration Minister Scott Morrison confirmed 77 asylum seekers had been injured on the second night of violence in a vicious clash between locals and the PNG police on Monday.
Two asylum seekers have been flown to Australia for treatment, one for a fractured skull and another for a gun-shot wound.
Refugee advocates say locals and the PNG police attacked the centre with machetes, knives and other weapons and have again condemned Australia’s treatment of asylum seekers in offshore detention centres – saying Manus Island is dangerous and lawless.
They say Australia has put the lives of people seeking asylum, who have already fled torture, war and gross human rights violations, at extreme risk.
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/one-person-dead-others-seriously-injured-during-violent-manus-island-clashes-20140218-32x3k.html#ixzz2tdiH4iBs
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Probably at the cost of saving a thousand people drowning.
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I am surprise we are allowed to know this
Thought fascist tony would cover this up
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I am surprise we are allowed to know this
Thought fascist tony would cover this up
Do you know what a fascist actually is? (Hint: It's not anyone who is to the right of Bob Brown.)
Abbott's just another common or garden variety neo-conservative who read too much Ayn Rand as a teenager.
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I am surprise we are allowed to know this
Thought fascist tony would cover this up
Do you know what a fascist actually is? (Hint: It's not anyone who is to the right of Bob Brown.)
Abbott's just another common or garden variety neo-conservative who read too much Ayn Rand as a teenager.
And a bit of George Orwell as well.
:lol
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I am surprise we are allowed to know this
Thought fascist tony would cover this up
Do you know what a fascist actually is? (Hint: It's not anyone who is to the right of Bob Brown.)
Abbott's just another common or garden variety neo-conservative who read too much Ayn Rand as a teenager.
surely your not suggesting facists are left wing are you?
but i agree, not sure it is where tony comes from on the whole, unlike jack boot johnny . He is definitely is a teabagger though
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I am surprise we are allowed to know this
Thought fascist tony would cover this up
Do you know what a fascist actually is? (Hint: It's not anyone who is to the right of Bob Brown.)
Abbott's just another common or garden variety neo-conservative who read too much Ayn Rand as a teenager.
surely your not suggesting facists are left wing are you?
but i agree, not sure it is where tony comes from on the whole, unlike jack boot johnny . He is definitely is a teabagger though
I know for a fact that he likes a cup of tea.
:cheers
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Ummm, Ok........
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Well I will be damned the bastard has actually fulfilled at least one of his election promises.
:lol
No boats in 100 days: Tony Abbott claims victory
March 29, 2014 - 11:59PM
Inga Ting
After 100 days without the arrival of an asylum seeker boat on Australian shores, the Prime Minister claimed victory on Saturday: He had stopped the boats.
"We can say to all of the people who scoffed, who said … it was just a simple slogan, that it can be done," Tony Abbott said.
But the government's claim of success came after revelations that two Australian employees of security contractor G4S are suspects in the brutal killing of asylum seeker Reza Barati on Manus Island.
The Prime Minister maintained the government's silence on how many boats had been turned back under Operation Sovereign Borders.
Immigration Minister Scott Morrison refused to say whether the government would abide by police requests to extradite two G4S employees, who returned to Australia soon after the incident, to face possible criminal charges in PNG
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/no-boats-in-100-days-tony-abbott-claims-victory-20140329-35pvp.html#ixzz2xNuOhsdZ
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Woah 100 days. Look out. :lol
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Close thread until Labor get back in
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Close thread until Labor get back in
Would the thread still even be on the database a decade from now?
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Close thread until Labor get back in
Would the thread still even be on the database a decade from now?
:lol
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More to come on this. Navy Captains are being used as scapegoats.
Navy captain stood aside, another punished over Indonesia breaches
April 17, 2014 - 2:40PM
David Wroe
National security correspondent
A Royal Australian Navy captain will lose command of his ship and another will receive administrative punishment over the recent incursions into Indonesian waters during border protection operations.
The Chief of Navy, Vice Admiral Ray Griggs, announced in a statement on Thursday that he was carrying out the sanctions against the ship commanders to uphold the standards of the navy.
Five more captains would be “formally or informally counselled,” the statement said.
While Admiral Griggs accepted the incursions in December and January were not deliberate, they constituted “lapses in professional conduct that required action to be taken”.
“Each of the Commanding Officers conducted these activities with the best of intent. However, I expect nothing but the highest standards of those in command,” Admiral Griggs said.
As a result, Admiral Griggs would “remove one Commanding Officer from his command and another will be administratively sanctioned”, the statement reads.
There were seven navy vessels involved in the six incursions, with more than one ship involved in each breach. The Customs vessel Ocean Protector also breached Indonesian waters.
Fairfax Media understands that at least some of the incursions happened while asylum-seeker boats were being turned back to Indonesia.
A review of the incidents by Defence and Customs found that the breaches – which angered Jakarta – were inadvertent and arose because the ships’ crews did not know where the maritime boundaries lay.
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/navy-captain-stood-aside-another-punished-over-indonesia-breaches-20140417-zqvxa.html#ixzz2z7sG0cAA
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This is a whole different level of wrong.
:banghead
Indonesia navy issues statement on asylum seeker boat turn-back
By Indonesia correspondent Helen Brown, staff
The crew of an asylum seeker boat turned back to Indonesia by the Australian Navy says three extra passengers were added to their boat from the Australian ships.
Indonesia's navy has issued a statement based on testimony given by the crew who were found on a wooden boat stranded on a small island in eastern Indonesia.
The crew reportedly told navy investigators two Australian warships put three extra people on board their boat - an Indonesian and two people from Albania - before they were escorted back to Indonesian waters.
They say they were in Australian waters on May 1 while taking 18 asylum seekers from India and Nepal towards Ashmore Reef.
According to the crew, the Australian ships escorted them back to Indonesian territory a day later.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-06/an-indonesia-navy-issues-statement-on-asylum-seeker-boat-turn-b/5432284
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This is a whole different level of wrong.
:banghead
Indonesia navy issues statement on asylum seeker boat turn-back
By Indonesia correspondent Helen Brown, staff
The crew of an asylum seeker boat turned back to Indonesia by the Australian Navy says three extra passengers were added to their boat from the Australian ships.
Indonesia's navy has issued a statement based on testimony given by the crew who were found on a wooden boat stranded on a small island in eastern Indonesia.
The crew reportedly told navy investigators two Australian warships put three extra people on board their boat - an Indonesian and two people from Albania - before they were escorted back to Indonesian waters.
They say they were in Australian waters on May 1 while taking 18 asylum seekers from India and Nepal towards Ashmore Reef.
According to the crew, the Australian ships escorted them back to Indonesian territory a day later.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-06/an-indonesia-navy-issues-statement-on-asylum-seeker-boat-turn-b/5432284
LMAO only three, surely they could have rustled up more than that
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Remember the fuss the Libs made when Labor was going to send refugees to Malaysia?
Well guess where the Libs are going to send them...
and we are not going to be told how much it will cost Australia.
Cambodia close to signing off on refugee deal with Australia, says government
By South-East Asia correspondent Samantha Hawley
The Cambodian government is in the final stages of considering a refugee resettlement agreement with Australia and wants to sign a memorandum of understanding as soon as possible.
Cambodia's secretary of state in the foreign ministry, Ouch Borith, has told the ABC a government study of the proposal has been completed and Cambodia will deliver a counter offer to Australia within days.
The details of the negotiations are being kept secret by both nations but it could see up to 1,000 genuine refugees sent from Australia to one of the world's poorest countries.
Mr Borith would not be drawn on how much Australia would need to pay Cambodia to take refugees from Nauru, how many it was willing to accept, or where they would live.
"I cannot let you know exactly the number of the refugees that I can receive, because for one, if we decided to receive refugees, it will be our responsibility to take care of all the refugees that come to Cambodia," Mr Borith said.
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Yeah but at least Cambodia is a huge country with a positive history
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Whatever the cost is, its going to be far less than what it costs to have them here.
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That's what's its all about :whistle
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Yes they have stopped the boats but are they creating an Australia that we will be happy to live in?
Manus Island asylum seekers in mental health crisis
May 26, 2014
Michael Gordon
Political editor, The Age
About half the asylum seekers in detention on Manus Island and Nauru are suffering from significant depression, stress or anxiety, according to clinical assessments.
Their situation is worse than for those in detention on the mainland and on Christmas Island, where a third are suffering major mental health problems, the assessments reveal.
In both cases, the proportion of asylum seekers with serious mental health conditions and the severity of those conditions is increasing the longer they are held in detention centres.
Fairfax Media revealed last week that Manus Island has been without a full-time psychiatrist for more than three months.
Most of the health findings are included in a report prepared by International Health and Medical Services, the organisation contracted to provide medical services in detention centres, for the Department of Immigration and Border Protection.
They include a spike in reports of asylum seekers on Christmas Island suffering as a result of trauma and torture, despite the cessation of boat arrivals, "indicating a high level of need for torture and trauma counselling services on the island".
The IHMS findings also indicate the number of people in immigration detention who have clinical symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder is well over 1000, the report says. The findings, obtained by Fairfax Media, will be seized upon by opponents of mandatory and indefinite detention as the most credible evidence yet that its toll on the mental health of asylum seekers is entirely predictable.
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/manus-island-asylum-seekers-in-mental-health-crisis-20140525-38wwd.html#ixzz32l9NTjZy
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"Yes they have stopped the boats"
Exactly the rest is irrelevant
He did what he said he would do Mr Bandt
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The trains run on time
(Germany 1942)
The rest is irrelevant
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They shouldn't be kept in detention.
They should be put on the first plane straight back where they came from.
End of story.
It's not Australia's responsibility.
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Also - anyone who isn't white should pee right off also
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or Christian........
;D
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Anglicanism only policy
Get onto it Tony :bow
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I'm married to a Filipino and far from racist.
We did things the right way and went through the proper channels.
Very different to just turning up and demanding entry.
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Anglicanism only policy
Get onto it Tony :bow
Why would a Catholic only want Anglicans here?
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Ah yes. Catholics English Tony
A contradiction wrapped in a riddle
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What is wrong with this arrogant prick?
:banghead
Immigration Minister Scott Morrison accused of taking 'petty, vindictive' axe to Refugee Council's budget funding
By political reporter Latika Bourke
The Federal Government has decided to axe its funding to the Refugee Council of Australia, a fortnight after allocating it in the budget.
The Refugee Council says Immigration Minister Scott Morrison's decision to cut the funding is "petty and vindictive."
The budget put aside $140,000 per year for the organisation over the next four years.
But the Refugee Council's Paul Power says the Department of Immigration has since phoned him to say that Mr Morrison has decided to axe the funding.
"A lot of people are telling us that they see it as petty and potentially vindictive towards an organisation that can often be critical of government," he said.
"It's a very small amount of money that the money is saving, and also the money was allocated in the budget.
"It's really indicative of the current government's attitude to non-government organisations that are working with refugees and asylum seekers."
Mr Power says he was told the agency had to "share the pain" of the budget’s spending cuts.
The organisation is 33 years old and serves as the national umbrella body for 180 organisations that deal with refugees and asylum seekers.
The federal funding it receives makes up a quarter of its budget, with 43 per cent coming from donations and membership fees.
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140k :bow
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Ask for more donations, easy fix
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Cost per boat person Manu's island $ 400,000
Children detained. 190
Child abuse. X3
Deaths. X1
Eyes removed. X1
Judge injury into abuse blocked
Yessss big Tony. :bow
Geez mark 2
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Speaks for itself.
Morrison: asylum seekers should go home or face 'very, very long' detention
Oliver Laughland
theguardian.com, Wednesday 25 June 2014 15.56 AEST
Extraordinary film footage has emerged of Australian immigration minister Scott Morrison directly threatening asylum seekers detained in Australia’s offshore detention centres in Papua New Guinea and Nauru to return to the countries they have fled from or spend a “very, very long time” in detention.
The footage, obtained by Guardian Australia, shows the immigration minister staring down the lens of a camera and telling asylum seekers in a pre-recorded message: “There are new rules in place under this government so I urge you to think carefully about your next decision and to make a decision to get on with the rest of your life and to not remain here and take the option to go back to the country from which you’ve originally come.”
It is further evidence of the concerted attempts by Australia’s right-wing Coalition government to coerce asylum seekers to return and follows news published by Fairfax newspapers that some are being offered an increased repatriation incentive of $10,000.
Australia is a signatory to the Refugee Convention, of which non-refoulement – the rule of not returning asylum seekers to persecution – is a core principle.
Before urging asylum seekers to return, Morrison warns: “If you choose not to go home then you will spend a very, very long time here and so I urge you to think carefully about that decision and make a decision to get on with the rest of your life.”
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/25/morrison-asylum-seekers-should-go-home-or-face-very-very-long-detention
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Guantanamo Bay for all of the bustards
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What would you do 1965?
Open door?
If you are going to try and come in the back door illegally, you should be treated as a criminal.
If you attempt to come into the country the legal way and get approved, WELCOME.
You crack the poos about the budget and the institution known as Play School being privatised.
Play School will be the least of the problems if we aren't tough on boat people.
They come in and are a drain on the economy.
Personally, i'd send them to PNG etc, then put them on the first plane back to where they came from.
LOWER THE COSTS, not import life long drains on the economy.
And I lived for years in a rural part of a 3rd world country, so yes, I have an idea what it's like.
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What would you do 1965?
Open door?
If you are going to try and come in the back door illegally, you should be treated as a criminal.
If you attempt to come into the country the legal way and get approved, WELCOME.
You crack the poos about the budget and the institution known as Play School being privatised.
Play School will be the least of the problems if we aren't tough on boat people.
They come in and are a drain on the economy.
Personally, i'd send them to PNG etc, then put them on the first plane back to where they came from.
LOWER THE COSTS, not import life long drains on the economy.
And I lived for years in a rural part of a 3rd world country, so yes, I have an idea what it's like.
Happy they have stopped the boats and stopped people dying at sea.
But not so happy about treating anybody as badly as they are treating the refugees at the moment.
Have you no heart?
:huh
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What about the ones that die in their own country
Cause they are going to get killed - be it due to religion nor ethnic minority
Yet unable to come here via legal means
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What about the ones that die in their own country
Cause they are going to get killed - be it due to religion nor ethnic minority
Yet unable to come here via legal means
Please give me the nationalities and I will give you my thoughts. Without listing 100.
Be sensible in the nationalities and I'll provide what I think they should do.
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Have you no heart?
:huh
Don't get smart.
I sponsor an entire primary school in the Philippines and help teach English and maths.
It's the illegal boat people that make it so difficult for legitimate people like my wife to migrate here the correct way.
Don't question my heart when it comes to people less fortunate.
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Have you no heart?
:huh
Don't get smart.
I sponsor an entire primary school in the Philippines and help teach English and maths.
It's the illegal boat people that make it so difficult for legitimate people like my wife to migrate here the correct way.
Don't question my heart when it comes to people less fortunate.
:clapping
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Happy they have stopped the boats and stopped people dying at sea.
But not so happy about treating anybody as badly as they are treating the refugees at the moment.
Also, I agree with all this.
Stop the boats - Agree
Stop people dying at sea - Agree
Don't treat people badly - Agree
If they are on the first plane home they aren't being mistreated. Send them first class if you like with champagne and caviar.
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I'm sure your wife is a gun and I am sure she should be allowed in our country if me or you or her were in charge
But it's a big bit of land and enough room for boat people and your wife IMO
The two issues IMO are separate
To play devils adovact: Why not build solar plants desalination plants and some commission flats and let em run wild? Probably cost about the same as what the vid government is going to give to th porkies company :whistle. Pakistan has 2.6 million of them so its not that unrealistic. Germany has half million. Most of this country is non aboriginal and has had some family that's migrated here in last 100 years one a or another
Good work on giving money to the school that's quite cool. The thing if you vote liberal - don't you think tony not giving five billion to the worlds poorest as promised is rather poor form?
The boats will never stop cause people are happy to die to risk a better life. You would have to build a wall Israeli style
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What about the ones that die in their own country
Cause they are going to get killed - be it due to religion nor ethnic minority
Yet unable to come here via legal means
Please give me the nationalities and I will give you my thoughts. Without listing 100.
Be sensible in the nationalities and I'll provide what I think they should do.
Where to start ?
Tamel sir lankians
Afgans of Mongol ancestry
Palestinian ...
Kurd iraq
Girls that want to study without having acid throw at them or there sex organs sliced off...
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Have you no heart?
:huh
Don't get smart.
I sponsor an entire primary school in the Philippines and help teach English and maths.
It's the illegal boat people that make it so difficult for legitimate people like my wife to migrate here the correct way.
Don't question my heart when it comes to people less fortunate.
:clapping
x2 :clapping
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I'm sure your wife is a gun and I am sure she should be allowed in our country if me or you or her were in charge
It's not about my wife mate.
I'm using her as an example in point.
She is one of 10's of 1000's looking to migrate to our great county legally and with the means to do so. The process is made so much harder for all those thousands.
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how do refuges seeking asylum affect people who simply want to migrate?
They are different processes completely.
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Tamel sir lankians
Afgans of Mongol ancestry
Palestinian ...
Kurd iraq
Girls that want to study without having acid throw at them or there sex organs sliced off...
I'll start with an easy one being Palestine.
Go to Cyprus. No luck there, Greece, dont like Greece? Keep paddling a bit further to Italy. Italy won;t have you? Ok, I get it, this isn't working, paddle a bit more in the Mediterranean to France or Spain, WHY GO MORE THAN 3 TIMES AS FAR TO AUSTRALIA. There are dozens of countries a lot closer.
Or won't those countries have them? What arseholes. To quote 1965, "don't they have a heart?".
Wow, all those countries must not be letting them in.
So lets battle the high seas and head for the soft country Australia.
We move onto anyone from Iraq.
SAME DEAL. You Spanish, French, Greek, Italian, Cypriat dogs. Now they are Aussie problems.
Afghans of Mongol ancestry. Not being rude here, but is Mongolia an option? If not, give Russia or China a go? Hek, lets trek half way round the globe to the funny looking big island, whats it called again?
Sri Lankans. Please. They sail straight past Singapore. What? Singapore won't have them? Why not?????
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Tamel sir lankians
Afgans of Mongol ancestry
Palestinian ...
Kurd iraq
Girls that want to study without having acid throw at them or there sex organs sliced off...
I'll start with an easy one being Palestine.
Go to Cyprus. No luck there, Greece, dont like Greece? Keep paddling a bit further to Italy. Italy won;t have you? Ok, I get it, this isn't working, paddle a bit more in the Mediterranean to France or Spain, WHY GO MORE THAN 3 TIMES AS FAR TO AUSTRALIA. There are dozens of countries a lot closer.
Or won't those countries have them? What behindholes. To quote 1965, "don't they have a heart?".
Wow, all those countries must not be letting them in.
So lets battle the high seas and head for the soft country Australia.
We move onto anyone from Iraq.
SAME DEAL. You Spanish, French, Greek, Italian, Cypriat dogs. Now they are Aussie problems.
Afghans of Mongol ancestry. Not being rude here, but is Mongolia an option? If not, give Russia or China a go? Hek, lets trek half way round the globe to the funny looking big island, whats it called again?
Sri Lankans. Please. They sail straight past Singapore. What? Singapore won't have them? Why not?????
All of this true but it is not illegal to seek asylum in Australia and it is not illegal to come by boat.
And this is true by both Australian and International law.
Again stopping people dying at sea is a good thing but acting almost as bad as NAZI Germany is wrong.
'65
PS I loved your story about yourself and your family. :lol
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the Mediterranean countries have a much bigger problem with asylum seekers already than we do, and many many more associated drownings
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And it's not illegal to protect your sovereign borders, especially in these days of global terrorism. If these people were all genuine refugees then I would have a lot more compassion but they aren't, they're queue jumpers and for them I have zero sympathy. A good mate of mine applied a number of years back to migrate from England with his family - he was a tradesman that fitted our country's work requirements, had plenty of money in the back, working wife, teenage children and family already settled in Australia (some of them born here). It took him 3 years to get approved to migrate and the process included security checks, financial checks and health checks, and at the 11th hour he was nearly rejected because of a minor health issue related to his age (mid 40's). So if a family from his culture and background is required to go through all this in an effort to migrate here, why the hell should queue jumpers from other countries skip the steps and time required just because they have sold up everything to pay it to unscrupulous and illegal people traffickers to get to their country of choice? The fact that many of them don't get approved proves the need to go through the process and I for one, am damn glad we do make them wait until we have fully checked them out. No-one would have anything but sympathy and compassion for genuine refugees but I do question people who, as Damo says, bypass any number of countries that are signatories to the same UN Refugee Charter that we are, just to get to Australia. A genuine refugee gets to the first point of sanctuary they can, and at that point they are then free to put into action any plan for their future that they are able. So to all the queue jumpers waiting at Manus, Christmas or any other holding camp - wait your bloody turn and next time, try becoming Australian residents the legal way, the way that everyone else in the world has to.
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Approximately half those seeking asylum arrive on our shores via other means than "illegal" boats or Irregular Maritime Arrivals.
That means these people have means to legitimate forms of entry (ships and planes) but often still arrive on our shores without valid Visas.
These people are not locked up or threatened with long periods of incarceration as a deterrent, nor do they invoke the sort of response from the public as the Irregular Maritime Arrivals do.
Yet less than half of these people end up being genuine refugees.
Of those that arrive by boat on our northern borders, about 90% end up being legitimate refuges.
It all seems a bit arse about to me.
Why do those that are predominately legitimate refugees get treated like criminals and cop all the hatred, while those that are lucky enough to have the means to catch a plane or cruise ship and are largely non legitimate refugees not get a mention?
These are the real cue jumpers. These are the people that are simply wanting to migrate but abuse the system by falsely claiming asylum, rather go through the correct immigration channels.
Yet not a mention. All the angst is for those that are genuinely fleeing for their lives.
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PS I loved your story about yourself and your family. :lol
Did I miss something? What part of it was funny? Thought it highlighted a reasonable point of the debate
Rather than having a heart, perhaps a bit of respect rather than one of these :lol would be more apt
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PS I loved your story about yourself and your family. :lol
Did I miss something? What part of it was funny? Thought it highlighted a reasonable point of the debate
Rather than having a heart, perhaps a bit of respect rather than one of these :LOL would be more apt
x2
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All of this true but it is not illegal to seek asylum in Australia and it is not illegal to come by boat.
And this is true by both Australian and International law.
Again stopping people dying at sea is a good thing but acting almost as bad as NAZI Germany is wrong.
'65
PS I loved your story about yourself and your family. :lol
Damo
I'm told your story is correct.
My apologies for doubting you.
:cheers
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Tamel sir lankians
Afgans of Mongol ancestry
Palestinian ...
Kurd iraq
Girls that want to study without having acid throw at them or there sex organs sliced off...
I'll start with an easy one being Palestine.
Go to Cyprus. No luck there, Greece, dont like Greece? Keep paddling a bit further to Italy. Italy won;t have you? Ok, I get it, this isn't working, paddle a bit more in the Mediterranean to France or Spain, WHY GO MORE THAN 3 TIMES AS FAR TO AUSTRALIA. There are dozens of countries a lot closer.
Or won't those countries have them? What behindholes. To quote 1965, "don't they have a heart?".
Wow, all those countries must not be letting them in.
So lets battle the high seas and head for the soft country Australia.
We move onto anyone from Iraq.
SAME DEAL. You Spanish, French, Greek, Italian, Cypriat dogs. Now they are Aussie problems.
Afghans of Mongol ancestry. Not being rude here, but is Mongolia an option? If not, give Russia or China a go? Hek, lets trek half way round the globe to the funny looking big island, whats it called again?
Sri Lankans. Please. They sail straight past Singapore. What? Singapore won't have them? Why not?????
(http://api.ning.com/files/WnmTYkV-edI9ItVWcDDNJ*JOTGzC9tmnrI9rVkef5weO-Pk79AUSa*hcU6aE*EqT6zFKzH3np*lLQpDTJgHnImAwe9QYO6Rn/7.png)
(http://www.overthinkingit.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/trash-of-the-titans.jpg)
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Judge.
Lets say there was a massive war and crisis in New Caledonia and the refugees set sail for Italy, Spain, France etc????
Of course they wouldn't.
They would head to Australia and fair enough too. We are a logical port for a genuine refugee in that instance.
The inverse is happening with your examples.
It would be like a boat from New Caledonia bypassing Australia and setting sail past 10 more options before lobbing on Italy's door.
It's rediculous to think that would occur.
How are people on the other side of the world Australia's responsibility?
I feel for them, I do.
But there are better, cheaper, quicker options closer to home.
Coming to Australia via illegal people smugglers takes money, planning, time AND A LOT OF RISK. Avoid the high seas and head somewhere safer.
Use them!
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Its funny how boat people get a all the air time
And Chinese investors buying inner Melbourne private property is a none issue
Imo
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Good to see Morrison sending a clear message to the people smugglers.
Scott Morrison backflips and grants visa to boy who arrived by boat
July 22, 2014
Michael Gordon
Political editor, The Age
Immigration Minister Scott Morrison has granted a permanent visa to a refugee who arrived by boat, despite fighting the boy's case in the High Court and signalling he would not be swayed when the court found against him.
In a decision that could have implications for many others, the Immigration Minister announced the backflip in a letter to lawyers representing the 15-year-old Ethiopian on Monday.
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/scott-morrison-backflips-and-grants-visa-to-boy-who-arrived-by-boat-20140721-3cbju.html#ixzz388XFb5jc
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Well the Libs look like they haven't stopped the boats after all
:lol
Asylum seekers to be transferred from Customs ship to onshore detention centre
A group of asylum seekers being detained on a Customs ship are set to be transferred to an onshore detention centre.
The ABC understands the 157 asylum seekers will be taken from Cocos Islands to the Curtin Detention Centre in Western Australia.
The boat carrying the Sri Lankan men, women and children is said to have left India early last month and was intercepted by an Australian vessel about three weeks ago.
Lawyers for one of the asylum seekers went to the High Court to challenge the legality of their detention on the high seas.
The lawyers are seeking a court order preventing the Federal Government from sending the asylum seekers to Sri Lanka, Nauru, or Papua New Guinea.
Instead, the group wants to be sent to Australia or another country that "has assumed the international law non-refoulement obligations".
Lawyers also want the court to declare that the Government acted unlawfully and abused its powers.
In a defence statement filed to the court, the Federal Government said the people on board the vessel did not hold visas entitling them to travel to or enter Australia.
It also refused to admit the people on board are entitled to claim asylum from any country.
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http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/26/asylum-seekers-sue-scott-morrison-medical-care-christmas-island
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We are sending them to Cambodia for 35 million dollars
Classy
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Yes we stopped the boats but at what cost?
Sexual abuse, rape threats alleged by Nauru asylum seekers
September 29, 2014 - 10:00PM
Asylum seekers have made allegations of sexual abuse of women and children and threats of rape by guards working in the detention centre on Nauru.
One female detainee has detailed her claims to Fairfax Media and Greens senator Sarah Hanson-Young, including threats that she would be raped if her refugee status was recognised and she was released into the Nauruan community.
The allegations come as protests and acts of self-harm continue in the centre over the decision to offer people on Christmas Island temporary protection and work rights in Australia, but not the 1233 asylum seekers currently being held in Nauru.
Senator Hanson-Young has written to Immigration Minister Scott Morrison asking for an independent investigation into the allegations that;
- Female asylum seekers were told by guards that they must expose their bodies in order to be allowed to shower for longer than two minutes.
- Guards offered illicit drugs, including marijuana, in return for sex from asylum seekers.
- One Australian guard ordered two underage asylum seekers to have sex in front of him. The incident happened six months ago and the guard has since left the island, it has been alleged.
- One asylum seeker was threatened that she would be raped once she leaves the centre by a guard and his wife.
The asylum seeker, who asked not to be identified, said guards in the detention centre were saying to female asylum seekers: "If you want to take a shower for more than two minutes, you have to show your body." She also said two guards told her: "When you get out of here, we have a plan for you. We are going to find you and f--- you."
Another asylum seeker alleged an Australian guard said he wanted to have sex with children on the island and forced two underage asylum seekers to perform sexual acts in front on him.
"He tried to have sex with them," she said. "He then made the children have sex with each other."
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/sexual-abuse-rape-threats-alleged-by-nauru-asylum-seekers-20140929-10nlun.html#ixzz3EjqmSpoS
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If this happened it's horrendous.
BUT, how on earth is it the fault of a political party, which is what you are rediculously getting at. IF this occurred the guard will be prosecuted.
Let's not forget that Nauru was reopened in 2012 by the Labour party.
Maybe we blame Labour for this incident?
Makes as much sense as blaming Abbott/Libs
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It has the potential to get worse. Australia is breaking the UN 1951 refugee convention when they start spending $40million to send people to Cambodia. Shouldn't be an issue anymore though since the boats have been stopped. Allegedly.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVyCfJ5cOOA&feature=share
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How much?
and per year.
:banghead
http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/offshore-detention-centres-annual-costs-hit-1-billion-20141020-118s6i.html
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I blame Cambodia >:(
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how many lives spared 65?
stuff you are clueless mate, lives are far more important. Stick to saving trees champ
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how many lives spared 65?
stuff you are clueless mate, lives are far more important. Stick to saving trees champ
$1 billion dollars spent elsewhere could save far more lives.
And you call me clueless.
:lol
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how many lives spared 65?
stuff you are clueless mate, lives are far more important. Stick to saving trees champ
$1 billion dollars spent elsewhere could save far more lives.
And you call me clueless.
:lol
yeah maybe by installing pink bats
stuff out of everyone on here you are about the most clueless. I have no time for tree huggers sorry mate
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Half a million per person. Should be a royal commission into government spending. Stop the waste.
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how many lives spared 65?
stuff you are clueless mate, lives are far more important. Stick to saving trees champ
$1 billion dollars spent elsewhere could save far more lives.
And you call me clueless.
:lol
yeah maybe by installing pink bats
stuff out of everyone on here you are about the most clueless. I have no time for tree huggers sorry mate
And I have to feel sorry for you rusted on Liberal voters.
NFI
:lol
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Now it seems we are paying the people smugglers to go back to Indonesia.
How long before they just load up a boat of their mates and head out to sea to be paid $5000 each to turn around.
God this Government are stuffing useless.
Tony Abbott does not deny Australia paid people smugglers to turn back asylum seeker boats
Date June 12, 2015 - 9:52AM
Patrick Begley
Prime Minister Tony Abbott has not denied Australia paid people smugglers to turn around an asylum seeker boat.
The Prime Minister also refused to offer a view about whether such a method would be unacceptable and would not commit to an investigation.
Prime Minister Tony Abbott refused to say whether he condoned the idea of Australia paying people smugglers to turn boats around.
Fairfax Media this week revealed passengers and an Indonesian police chief have claimed border protection officials paid people smugglers to return asylum seekers interecepted north of Australia en route to New Zealand.
Indonesia is now investigating claims that crew members of a boat were paid $5000 each to turn around.
http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/tony-abbott-does-not-deny-australia-paid-people-smugglers-to-turn-back-asylum-seeker-boats-20150611-ghm5ru.html
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Only a moron like Abbott could think using taxpayers' money to pay off international organised crime is a good idea :facepalm.
Geez, I wonder what they will do with the money we are giving them, Tony? I'm sure it won't be funneled into other international criminal enterprises such as drug and weapons trafficking and of course to terrorist groups ::).
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Just what Turnbull needs. The boats have started again?
http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/six-chinese-men-reach-australia-by-boat-intercepted-by-border-force-20170829-gy6oit.html (http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/six-chinese-men-reach-australia-by-boat-intercepted-by-border-force-20170829-gy6oit.html)
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Just what Turnbull needs. The boats have started again?
http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/six-chinese-men-reach-australia-by-boat-intercepted-by-border-force-20170829-gy6oit.html (http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/six-chinese-men-reach-australia-by-boat-intercepted-by-border-force-20170829-gy6oit.html)
The word I'm getting is that this was organised by the Chinese government to dis-stabilize the Aust government.
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Watch the boats start up again.
Manus Island detainees' $70m compensation settlement approved
A compensation deal from the Australian Government worth $70 million for 1,300 current and former detainees on Manus Island has been approved by Victoria's Supreme Court.
The group of asylum seekers and refugees were compensated for being illegally detained between 2012 and 2016, for negligence in how the Government housed and protected them.
The deal is the largest human rights settlement in Australian legal history.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-06/manus-island-detainees-settlement-with-commonwealth/8876934
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Watch the boats start up again.
Manus Island detainees' $70m compensation settlement approved
A compensation deal from the Australian Government worth $70 million for 1,300 current and former detainees on Manus Island has been approved by Victoria's Supreme Court.
The group of asylum seekers and refugees were compensated for being illegally detained between 2012 and 2016, for negligence in how the Government housed and protected them.
The deal is the largest human rights settlement in Australian legal history.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-06/manus-island-detainees-settlement-with-commonwealth/8876934
:clapping :clapping :clapping
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Hopefully they'll all now be resettled in the inner-city suburbs of Melbourne & Sydney.......:clapping
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Stuff me
-
One rule for (((them))) it seems....
http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Netanyahu-pledges-to-deport-African-migrants-504149
:shh
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More refugees arriving by plane than arrived by boat.
But these aren't illegal. I think.
https://www.theage.com.au/national/australia-s-refugee-wait-list-doubles-with-surge-of-plane-people-seeking-asylum-20190618-p51yue.html (https://www.theage.com.au/national/australia-s-refugee-wait-list-doubles-with-surge-of-plane-people-seeking-asylum-20190618-p51yue.html)
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So much for the Libs protecting our borders.
Idiots, the lot of them.
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Snip
Enough with the baiting
Debate the issue ONLY
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About 80 people every day since the start of July have claimed protection after landing at an Australian airport, highlighting a huge change in people smuggling operations since the government's crackdown on boat arrivals.
https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/australia-on-track-for-new-annual-record-for-asylum-seekers-arriving-by-air-20191007-p52yfs.html
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About 80 people every day since the start of July have claimed protection after landing at an Australian airport, highlighting a huge change in people smuggling operations since the government's crackdown on boat arrivals.
https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/australia-on-track-for-new-annual-record-for-asylum-seekers-arriving-by-air-20191007-p52yfs.html (https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/australia-on-track-for-new-annual-record-for-asylum-seekers-arriving-by-air-20191007-p52yfs.html)
But we have stopped those pesky boats.
:thumbsup
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Boat people can be ok if they barrack for Richmond. If not they are low lifes and can get stuffed.
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Harsh but fair... :shh