One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: Stripes on May 09, 2012, 04:08:05 PM
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Our side is beginning to settle and our depth improve but we still have some positions, I would suggest, that are still there for the taking. I remember doing something similar a couple of years a go, in another posters thread, and most of the field was question marks. Times are changing though. :thumbsup
Here's where I think we still have positions to fill
FB - Houli Rance Grimes
HB - Batchelor ??? Morris
C - Conca Martin ???
Foll - Maric Cotchin Lids
HF - ??? ??? ???
FB - Vickery Jack Grimes
Int - Foley Ellis Grigg ???
It's interesting to me that it seems our forward line and in particular our half forwardline including our small forwards that seems our weakest area going forward. Nahas and King are servicable and can have breakout games but are they going to remain in the side in 3-5 years? I don't know.
Our backline is surprizingly settled with a big CHB the only hole imo. Morris was lucky to be placed in but he seems to be doing everything right at the moment.
We still need more depth to our midfield though this had improved greatly. We probably need just 2 or 3 more good midfielders to fill the void and support the others to be pushing the best teams.
What's your thoughts? Am I miles off? Are any of my certainties wrong? HAve I left someone out who deserves a place in our future side?
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I would draft purely midfielders in this years draft with our 1st 3 and hopefully prize a young player not getting a game from another club to fill any gaps...Someone like a Cornelius from the Lions.
You know the player I would love at Richmond?? Tom Rockliff. How he didnt get drafted in the normal fashion is laughable.
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I would draft purely midfielders in this years draft with our 1st 3 and hopefully prize a young player not getting a game from another club to fill any gaps...Someone like a Cornelius from the Lions.
You know the player I would love at Richmond?? Tom Rockliff. How he didnt get drafted in the normal fashion is laughable.
Yes I agree though in the last couple of years we have targeted a ruckman (Maric - tick), a CHB (Trengrove - cross) and midfielder (McCarthy - cross) so perhaps the club will still be on the lookout to fill the two misses they had last year. :huh
You can never have enough quality midfielders which is what the club is hoping Arnot and Helbig will prove to be but we need more. Nahas and King are battlers (even though Nahas was fanatastic ont he weekend so I may be judging him too harshly) and we are lacking small crumbers such as the Blues & Boomers have so this should be a big target I feel.
The questions is how to fill these holes too. Are midfielders better to recruit while talls better to trade for or you take what you can get in the trade period and recuit what you can't. I don't know?
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Back line is too small and not enough depth, we need at least two Mal Michael size players and another ruck man...we have enough players that could and should be in those forward positions.
Also not quite sure why you have Grigg on the int??? He would be second behind Deleio or Cotch for best player so far, Foley as well for that matter.
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Back line is too small and not enough depth, we need at least two Mal Michael size players and another ruck man...we have enough players that could and should be in those forward positions.
Also not quite sure why you have Grigg on the int??? He would be second behind Deleio or Cotch for best player so far, Foley as well for that matter.
I agree with you on current form regarding Grigg and Foley. I just think players such as Martin and Conca have more upside to their games going forward than these two. On current form I would have Grigg and Foley in the team over both the above players but its the old 'potential' debate ;).
Rance is a big unit who will only get bigger but, I agree, we need another big bodied tall down there. Grimes is more your running spoiler.
Who do you think would fill those forward positions you mentioned?
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Back line is too small and not enough depth, we need at least two Mal Michael size players and another ruck man...we have enough players that could and should be in those forward positions.
Also not quite sure why you have Grigg on the int??? He would be second behind Deleio or Cotch for best player so far, Foley as well for that matter.
I agree with you on current form regarding Grigg and Foley. I just think players such as Martin and Conca have more upside to their games going forward than these two. On current form I would have Grigg and Foley in the team over both the above players but its the old 'potential' debate ;).
Rance is a big unit who will only get bigger but, I agree, we need another big bodied tall down there. Grimes is more your running spoiler.
Who do you think would fill those forward positions you mentioned?
The "old debate", well I still think Foley has another 4 years left in him, Grigg is young an an slot into one of those forward positions....even, Conca, Griff needs to come good, injury wise and really Nahas has to be in there.
If Martin and Cotchin were kicking goals like they did last year and Riewoldt and Nahas and Vickery were playing like they did......different story.
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I have faith that Ben Darrou will fill one of the vacant spots.
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We also have Astbury coming back and maybe the way Arnot has played he could also be considered.
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I have faith that Ben Darrou will fill one of the vacant spots.
Also we have McGuane....yep.....McGuane.....must be tried in the forwad line before being thrown on the scrap heap IMO.
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Anyone with the surname Mc.... Should be automaticallly blacklisted from being drafted by the club based on previous history.
Need I say?
McDonald, McGuane, McMahon, McKee, McQueen...
Bloody Scots
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Anyone with the surname Mc.... Should be automaticallly blacklisted from being drafted by the club based on previous history.
Need I say?
McDonald, McGuane, McMahon, McKee, McQueen...
Bloody Scots
Don't forget McPettifer, Mc Wallace, McHyde, Mc Oakley-Nicholls, Mc Tambling, Mc Etc.
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McCameron is still at the club
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Anyone with the surname Mc.... Should be automaticallly blacklisted from being drafted by the club based on previous history.
Need I say?
McDonald, McGuane, McMahon, McKee, McQueen...
Bloody Scots
Don't forget McPettifer, Mc Wallace, McHyde, Mc Oakley-Nicholls, Mc Tambling, Mc Etc.
I hate Mc Etc
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Anyone with the surname Mc.... Should be automaticallly blacklisted from being drafted by the club based on previous history.
Need I say?
McDonald, McGuane, McMahon, McKee, McQueen...
Bloody Scots
Don't forget McPettifer, Mc Wallace, McHyde, Mc Oakley-Nicholls, Mc Tambling, Mc Etc.
I hate Mc Etc
Didn't mind him until his 4th season :banghead
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Anyone with the surname Mc.... Should be automaticallly blacklisted from being drafted by the club based on previous history.
Need I say?
McDonald, McGuane, McMahon, McKee, McQueen...
Bloody Scots
Don't forget McPettifer, Mc Wallace, McHyde, Mc Oakley-Nicholls, Mc Tambling, Mc Etc.
I hate Mc Etc
Didn't mind him until his 4th season :banghead
Fair enough. It's when people label him a 'gun' that gets my goat
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I was a fan of his leadership early on. "Get your hands up and set up the zone!"
:clapping
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Anyone with the surname Mc.... Should be automaticallly blacklisted from being drafted by the club based on previous history.
Need I say?
McDonald, McGuane, McMahon, McKee, McQueen...
Bloody Scots
Don't forget McPettifer, Mc Wallace, McHyde, Mc Oakley-Nicholls, Mc Tambling, Mc Etc.
I hate Mc Etc
Didn't mind him until his 4th season :banghead
Fair enough. It's when people label him a 'gun' that gets my goat
:lol
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Back line is too small and not enough depth, we need at least two Mal Michael size players
Just for your info WAT, when Mal Michael was drafted he was 65kgs and when he went to Brisbane in 2001 (aged 24) he was 85kgs. We should keep this in mind before we discard our improving kids to the scrapheap and demand a draft of a "Michael" size. Our growing kids are showing just as much potential as Michael did in his early days.
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65kgs LMAO
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McBurney
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65kgs LMAO
Yeah, hard to believe Coach, even though I do have a memory of him being damn skinny when he first played with Collingwood.
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65kgs LMAO
Yeah, hard to believe Coach, even though I do have a memory of him being damn skinny when he first played with Collingwood.
Looked very timid didn't he. Remember his debut kid and I thought what a waste was this kid. Thought at the time it was a Collingwood stunt to alleviate the racist taunts thrown their way by the public after the Victoria Park, Allan McCallister and Damian Monkhorst incidents.
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In answer to our holes I agree with Stripes.
Alipate Carlisle would have been great for us. Would not have been too expensive and a very sold citizen in the backline.
Need another one or two quality midfielders and one or both of Astbury and Griffiths to make it.
Need another ruckman too. Outside of Maric we have got squat.
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HF goalkicking machine :shh
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Yep. We need an athletic medium forward with good hands and a reliable set shot. Someone who you can hit up on the lead all day.
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Yep. We need an athletic medium forward with good hands and a reliable set shot. Someone who you can hit up on the lead all day.
Petts.
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Yep. We need an athletic medium forward with good hands and a reliable set shot. Someone who you can hit up on the lead all day.
Martin and Lids would fit the bill if they weren't such guns in the midfield. See to be rotating through there now though.
I really hope Elton is the answer when Miller moves aside. Astbury maybe a little small for that tall monster backman we need and Griffiths needs size and consistency on the park before we can make a judgement on his progress. I was really hoping Derickx may be that third tall at least in the intrim while we wait for Benny or Elton to progress but I haven't heard much positive rumblings about the fellow of late.
Our midfield depth needs looking at. Another couple of quality rovers would do the trick and add to our depth greatly.
Still a few holes at this stage. Trading this year will be important as every club will be looking for picks in the 'super draft'.
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Yep. We need an athletic medium forward with good hands and a reliable set shot. Someone who you can hit up on the lead all day.
Petts.
;D
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Tivs would be handy now also lol. :lol :rollin :lol
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Tivs would be handy now also lol. :lol :rollin :lol
He was better than Griggy
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I here Jordy has been keeping fit..... :outtahere
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I think it's time to trade nahas now. I think he's got as much currency he's ever going to get. I give him credit for getting this far in his career but there's bound to be a couple of clubs wanting to pick him up for a handy trade.
I'm really getting sick of these mediocre midgets we keep turning over how about we get a half forward that has the body & skill of a Chapman not so easily pushed of the ball.
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I think it's time to trade nahas now. I think he's got as much currency he's ever going to get. I give him credit for getting this far in his career but there's bound to be a couple of clubs wanting to pick him up for a handy trade.
I'm really getting sick of these mediocre midgets we keep turning over how about we get a half forward that has the body & skill of a Chapman not so easily pushed of the ball.
Trade for Maloney since he might be shopping around at the end of the season :shh
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Definitely need a talll defender and another ruckman if Graham and Browne don't improve. We need a goal sneak as well.
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would of thought this topic related to some of the posters on here.
the answer to the topic, between there ears ;)
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I think it's time to trade nahas now. I think he's got as much currency he's ever going to get. I give him credit for getting this far in his career but there's bound to be a couple of clubs wanting to pick him up for a handy trade.
I'm really getting sick of these mediocre midgets we keep turning over how about we get a half forward that has the body & skill of a Chapman not so easily pushed of the ball.
Trade for Maloney since he might be shopping around at the end of the season :shh
I don't mind Moloney but he is the wrong side of 28. Would rather a younger player maybe someone no older than 25.
I would love a hard nut like Lewis from the hawks he's a proven finals performer. Or a ball winner like knights from Adelaide not a bad player and knows where the goals are. He may want to come back to Melbourne.
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Our priorieties in order are
1. Big Bodied key position defender
2. Midfield depth
3. Medium sized forward
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Our priorieties in order are
1. Big Bodied key position defender
2. Midfield depth
3. Medium sized forward
How they get these types will be of the biggest interest to me. I would suggest the first option would be targeted again through the trade table and perhaps even the last option too... :-\
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3. Medium sized forward
O'Hanlon whoa this kid leads all day, hands like a steel trap, golden left shoe kicks long and straight whoa whoa :shh
Give him another pre-season and lookout
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Back line is too small and not enough depth, we need at least two Mal Michael size players
Just for your info WAT, when Mal Michael was drafted he was 65kgs and when he went to Brisbane in 2001 (aged 24) he was 85kgs. We should keep this in mind before we discard our improving kids to the scrapheap and demand a draft of a "Michael" size. Our growing kids are showing just as much potential as Michael did in his early days.
Don't care what size he was smoke when he started, I am saying we need someone the size he ended up. I am not discarding any of our back line players but we don't have an X factor player/s down there nor do we have the depth should one of our current backs go down.
Back man and ruck man.....ready made, must be our priority, otherwise Cotch and Lids will be 30 years old and we will still be bloody "DEVELOPING" (my hate word) our backs.
Get the forwards and mids in the draft but get the backs and ruck through free agency, or trade.
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We would have a lot of trouble convincing a ready made pure ruckman to come across with ivan holding his own, unless the substitute rule is scrapped.
We'd have more luck getting another forward who can play ruck, i reckon
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Back line is too small and not enough depth, we need at least two Mal Michael size players
Just for your info WAT, when Mal Michael was drafted he was 65kgs and when he went to Brisbane in 2001 (aged 24) he was 85kgs. We should keep this in mind before we discard our improving kids to the scrapheap and demand a draft of a "Michael" size. Our growing kids are showing just as much potential as Michael did in his early days.
Don't care what size he was smoke when he started, I am saying we need someone the size he ended up. I am not discarding any of our back line players but we don't have an X factor player/s down there nor do we have the depth should one of our current backs go down.
Back man and ruck man.....ready made, must be our priority, otherwise Cotch and Lids will be 30 years old and we will still be bloody "DEVELOPING" (my hate word) our backs.
Get the forwards and mids in the draft but get the backs and ruck through free agency, or trade.
Thing is though it's not like you're shopping at Target and can just select one off the shelf. All the planets have to line up to get the right person and if they don't, you might end up throwing the baby out with the bathwater by failing to develop your own correctly. I use the skill and physical development of Rance and Grimes as an example - they have both improved in these areas significantly and whose to say there isn't further 'Michael-type' growth in them? If we ignore their development chasing the rainbow of a ready made defender then they might just see a better opportunity elsewhere and we end up further behind than we started. Chase one for sure but don't make it the Holy Grail or it might just end up another chapter in the chronicles of RFC stuff ups. And just for posterity, can I ask which big bodied defenders Geelong have had dominating in their current extended reign?
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Regardless, should be going after Chaplin or Merrett
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Chaplin :banghead
Merrett for sure
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Chaplin :banghead
Merrett for sure
Agreed with Randy.
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Regardless, should be going after Chaplin or Merrett
There you go, Merrett....just the sort of back man we need! Chaplin as well!
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Merrett is overrated.
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I think we should have a good look at Moloney from the dees. He can play, but he is sick of playing for Melbourne. Recruiting him would free up Cotch to play more outside and lessen our reliance on Tuck to win the hardball.
He's very hard to stop when he's up and going. Would complement our midfield nicely I reckon.
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Josh Hunt from the Cats might test his market value under free agency at the end of the season, but Smokey's point about Mal Michael is a very,very good one.
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Merrett is overrated.
So is most of our squad, I think Merrett is just what we need, he is tough at the contest, provides run and is not scared to take on the contest......overrated... :-\
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Merrett is overrated.
So is most of our squad, I think Merrett is just what we need, he is tough at the contest, provides run and is not scared to take on the contest......overrated... :-\
Grimes and Rance also do that just as often and well as Merrett, make less mistakes than Merrett, have a lot more room for improvement, and currently cost a lot less under the salary cap than Merrett would cost. Merrett will be 28 this year and has only played 32 out of 50 games in the past 2+ seasons. By the time we reach our supposed 'window' in 2015 he will be 31. I don't think getting him now would be a smart thing at all, regardless of what I think of his ability, and if his current injury record holds up as he approaches 30 (which is more likely than not) then most on here will attack the club mercilessly for it's shortsightedness in recruiting the next Kingsley, Hudson et al.
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Merrett is overrated.
So is most of our squad, I think Merrett is just what we need, he is tough at the contest, provides run and is not scared to take on the contest......overrated... :-\
Grimes and Rance also do that just as often and well as Merrett, make less mistakes than Merrett, have a lot more room for improvement, and currently cost a lot less under the salary cap than Merrett would cost. Merrett will be 28 this year and has only played 32 out of 50 games in the past 2+ seasons. By the time we reach our supposed 'window' in 2015 he will be 31. I don't think getting him now would be a smart thing at all, regardless of what I think of his ability, and if his current injury record holds up as he approaches 30 (which is more likely than not) then most on here will attack the club mercilessly for it's shortsightedness in recruiting the next Kingsley, Hudson et al.
Fletcher just turned 38 didn't he??
I am not bagging Grimes and Rance, but other than Rance where are our big bodied tallish back men??
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In theory griffiths. Astbury. Post. Moore. Mcgaune. The first 3 could each make.
Darrou could be undersize type. Wright is like mal michael?
Batch and dea play tall.
Heslin could come back 8)
Edit: elton?
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fletcher is a freak.
paying big bucks to bring in another older player just because he plays for so long is not the strongest logic
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Heslin could come back 8)
And I could be the next PM of Australia
Heslin will not be back
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Merrett is overrated.
Disagree. Is one of the best defenders in the league. Not one of the defenders at our club could hold a gun big man like Cloke, Brown, Roughead Franklin etc when isolated deep forward. Keeping them to 5 would be considered a good effort. Merrett is a top notch defender.
Cheers!
The Coach
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Chaplin :banghead
Merrett for sure
Agreed with Randy.
:lol
these cookies are mine.
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Chaplin :banghead
Merrett for sure
Agreed with Randy.
:lol
these cookies are mine.
How dumb were the guys this season?
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Merrett is overrated.
So is most of our squad, I think Merrett is just what we need, he is tough at the contest, provides run and is not scared to take on the contest......overrated... :-\
Grimes and Rance also do that just as often and well as Merrett, make less mistakes than Merrett, have a lot more room for improvement, and currently cost a lot less under the salary cap than Merrett would cost. Merrett will be 28 this year and has only played 32 out of 50 games in the past 2+ seasons. By the time we reach our supposed 'window' in 2015 he will be 31. I don't think getting him now would be a smart thing at all, regardless of what I think of his ability, and if his current injury record holds up as he approaches 30 (which is more likely than not) then most on here will attack the club mercilessly for it's shortsightedness in recruiting the next Kingsley, Hudson et al.
Fletcher just turned 38 didn't he??
I am not bagging Grimes and Rance, but other than Rance where are our big bodied tallish back men??
Mal Michael was 190cm and 100kgs
Dan Merrett is 195cm and 103kgs
Astbury is 195cm and 92kgs at 21 yrs old
Elton is 197cm and 92kgs at 18 yrs old
Griffiths is 198cm and 99kgs at 21 yrs old
Grimes is 193cm and 87kgs at 21 yrs old
Post is 193cm and 93kgs at 23 yrs old
Rance is 194cm and 93kgs at 23 yrs old
Darrou is 190cm and 97kgs at 19 yrs old
Wright is 190cm and 96kgs at 19 yrs old
Every one of these players is taller than Michael was and given their ages it would be within the reach of most to end up close to (or more than) his weight.
Not allowing for Moore or McGuane to make it, there is a bit here for the coaches to work with already, before we go spending our money chasing a ready made solution and before we go to next year's superdraft. I'm not saying don't pick up an experienced big defender but I don't think it needs to be a priority yet for at least a year or 2 and that's only if we can't produce a working unit/combination from within. I go back to my Geelong comment for proof that you don't necessarily need big bodied defenders but you do need a shedload of cohesion, trust and understanding, and only time and ongoing training/development can bring that.
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Merrett is overrated.
Disagree. Is one of the best defenders in the league. Not one of the defenders at our club could hold a gun big man like Cloke, Brown, Roughead Franklin etc when isolated deep forward. Keeping them to 5 would be considered a good effort. Merrett is a top notch defender.
Cheers!
The Coach
I don't think his output or results have been near as impressive since the Lions slid down the ladder. He was partially made look good by a very good team and is now struggling to have the same impact as he did a few years back. A good ordinary defender imho.
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Merrett is overrated.
Disagree. Is one of the best defenders in the league. Not one of the defenders at our club could hold a gun big man like Cloke, Brown, Roughead Franklin etc when isolated deep forward. Keeping them to 5 would be considered a good effort. Merrett is a top notch defender.
Cheers!
The Coach
I don't think his output or results have been near as impressive since the Lions slid down the ladder. He was partially made look good by a very good team and is now struggling to have the same impact as he did a few years back. A good ordinary defender imho.
He's played forward this year hasn't he? and when playing as a defender, when have you seen him taken to the cleaners? I can honestly say I haven't watched a Brisbane game where I didn't think he was servicable. Forwards playing on Sauce need to earn every touch. If we can pay McGuane 1.2 million over 3 years then we can chuck some $ at Merrett to sure up our defense.
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Merrett is overrated.
Disagree. Is one of the best defenders in the league. Not one of the defenders at our club could hold a gun big man like Cloke, Brown, Roughead Franklin etc when isolated deep forward. Keeping them to 5 would be considered a good effort. Merrett is a top notch defender.
Cheers!
The Coach
I don't think his output or results have been near as impressive since the Lions slid down the ladder. He was partially made look good by a very good team and is now struggling to have the same impact as he did a few years back. A good ordinary defender imho.
He's played forward this year hasn't he? and when playing as a defender, when have you seen him taken to the cleaners? I can honestly say I haven't watched a Brisbane game where I didn't think he was servicable. Forwards playing on Sauce need to earn every touch. If we can pay McGuane 1.2 million over 3 years then we can chuck some $ at Merrett to sure up our defense.
Yeah he has Coach but I still think his best football is past him and was in part due to the quality of players around him back then. He might regain that form in another good side but he is now injury prone and approaching 30. An unacceptable risk at the cost to our club but again, only my opinion.
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Merrett is too old for us. If he was 24 or 25 then maybe but not now.
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I would agree with the 16 you have picked. Good job.
Our side is beginning to settle and our depth improve but we still have some positions, I would suggest, that are still there for the taking. I remember doing something similar a couple of years a go, in another posters thread, and most of the field was question marks. Times are changing though. :thumbsup
Here's where I think we still have positions to fill
FB - Houli Rance Grimes
HB - Batchelor ??? Morris
C - Conca Martin ???
Foll - Maric Cotchin Lids
HF - ??? ??? ???
FB - Vickery Jack Grimes
Int - Foley Ellis Grigg ???
It's interesting to me that it seems our forward line and in particular our half forwardline including our small forwards that seems our weakest area going forward. Nahas and King are servicable and can have breakout games but are they going to remain in the side in 3-5 years? I don't know.
Our backline is surprizingly settled with a big CHB the only hole imo. Morris was lucky to be placed in but he seems to be doing everything right at the moment.
We still need more depth to our midfield though this had improved greatly. We probably need just 2 or 3 more good midfielders to fill the void and support the others to be pushing the best teams.
What's your thoughts? Am I miles off? Are any of my certainties wrong? HAve I left someone out who deserves a place in our future side?
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Definitely need another experienced defender ASAP. If Rance or Grimes goes down, touch wood, we are screwed. Touch wood. Touch wood.
Doesn't have to be a big name, just needs to be able to do a job like Millsy for a few years while our kids come through.
Then discard and go back to the Free Agency fountain for another dip.
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Rance. Grimes. Morris.
Dea. Griffiths. Batchelor.
Houli. Deledio. Grigg.
Conca. Vickery. Foley.
Ellis. Riewoldt. Edwards.
I.Maric. Martin. Cotchin.
X. X. X. X.
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The #17. Newman fits in the puzzle too.
Tuck. Nahas. King are the intersting ones. Ditto Jackson.
I think Dimma will be banking on Astbury. Helbig. Aarnot and the next draft period to finalize his best list/22 and to finish the list for lack of a better term. By round 1 next season we should almost be like a europe football club; one good player per postion and a good back up in the 2s.
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Will be very interesting to see how we draft this time. Think we will just go for best players this time. We seem to have 'depth' across the list at different stages of development though I am still very concerned with the quality of that depth in the ruck department. This would be a draft target area for me but I really think that we can trade for good ruckmen going forward rather than expend an early pick on one.
The hardest types of players to trade for are elite mids and tall forwards imho which is where I think we should focus our draft priorities this year.
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i dont get this so and so is too old crap.
a little different perspective.
most at richmond were saying we dont want podsiadly too old yet he was killing it in the vfl. geelong an aging side saw quality to go with quality and said yes please we will give him a chance.
what side would not want a podsiadly.
age by itself has absolutely nothing to do with it.
ben cousins anyone quality did he harm our development did he stop a kid god no he actually gave everyone something to aim at.
what is important is several things.
1/ the older player you are taking is proven and can do a job for you.
2/ you are not taking that player and foregoing your future quality 10 yr players to get him. ie trading away your firsdt and second rounders for him.
3/ does your list need experience. a simple spread sheet will tell you how many experienced players you have and where the experience is spread thru your list.
4/ the thing to always remember is older players do not harm your list as long as you look after the youth side of things and balance out what you do.
at our club we have as of 26 march 2012 the following players in the following age brackets. if you do a spread sheet you will see age games height size and depth.
28+ the veterans in the team. king, newman, tuck, miller, moore.
25 - 27 should be proven consistent leaders. foley, jackson, mcguane, i maric.
now that is the state of the real senior list. 9 players. the lack of experienced players is mindboggling. theres just 4 consistent good performers maric, foley, newman and tuck.
in that group theres just one ruckman,
two undersized tall defenders mcguane who is poor quality and moore who is injury prone.
one tall forward miller who is not up to it.
one mid in foley.
sheesh there is absolutely nothing from stopping us or that will hurt us from taking a 27 - 30 yo player as long we dont fritter away early picks to get em.
some one like merrett on a two yr contract straight away gives us cover experience size strength and barely enough proven kpds. i would love him for two yrs or even 3 and develop a good kid while hes there.
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Will be very interesting to see how we draft this time. Think we will just go for best players this time. We seem to have 'depth' across the list at different stages of development though I am still very concerned with the quality of that depth in the ruck department. This would be a draft target area for me but I really think that we can trade for good ruckmen going forward rather than expend an early pick on one.
The hardest types of players to trade for are elite mids and tall forwards imho which is where I think we should focus our draft priorities this year.
Agreed Stripes. With Rance in AA form, Dea improving with every game and Griffiths slotting in well to cover the loss of Grimes, our major issue of defensive depth has improved substantially. I too think we should be focusing more on our forward line and Ruck stocks. If we lose Jack to injury, IMO we really don't have anyone to replace him right at this time. Miller is just a stop gap measure and Vickery although it may be temporary, is struggling right now. So unless we have a hidden gem in our younger brigade, I think we really need to focus on looking for a KPF. Preferably someone who is tall enough to pinch hit in the Ruck if Maric were to get injured or vice versa, a mobile ruckman capable of filling the role of a KPF. I really don't have a lot of faith in Gus and BrownE to fill that void.
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It is a good thing our leaders are in the 20- 25 age range. 8)
i dont get this so and so is too old crap.
a little different perspective.
most at richmond were saying we dont want podsiadly too old yet he was killing it in the vfl. geelong an aging side saw quality to go with quality and said yes please we will give him a chance.
what side would not want a podsiadly.
age by itself has absolutely nothing to do with it.
ben cousins anyone quality did he harm our development did he stop a kid god no he actually gave everyone something to aim at.
what is important is several things.
1/ the older player you are taking is proven and can do a job for you.
2/ you are not taking that player and foregoing your future quality 10 yr players to get him. ie trading away your firsdt and second rounders for him.
3/ does your list need experience. a simple spread sheet will tell you how many experienced players you have and where the experience is spread thru your list.
4/ the thing to always remember is older players do not harm your list as long as you look after the youth side of things and balance out what you do.
at our club we have as of 26 march 2012 the following players in the following age brackets. if you do a spread sheet you will see age games height size and depth.
28+ the veterans in the team. king, newman, tuck, miller, moore.
25 - 27 should be proven consistent leaders. foley, jackson, mcguane, i maric.
now that is the state of the real senior list. 9 players. the lack of experienced players is mindboggling. theres just 4 consistent good performers maric, foley, newman and tuck.
in that group theres just one ruckman,
two undersized tall defenders mcguane who is poor quality and moore who is injury prone.
one tall forward miller who is not up to it.
one mid in foley.
sheesh there is absolutely nothing from stopping us or that will hurt us from taking a 27 - 30 yo player as long we dont fritter away early picks to get em.
some one like merrett on a two yr contract straight away gives us cover experience size strength and barely enough proven kpds. i would love him for two yrs or even 3 and develop a good kid while hes there.
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i dont get this so and so is too old crap.
a little different perspective.
most at richmond were saying we dont want podsiadly too old yet he was killing it in the vfl. geelong an aging side saw quality to go with quality and said yes please we will give him a chance.
what side would not want a podsiadly.
The highlighted part is an important point in regards to pods. I highly doubt he would have had anywhere near the impact if we had grabbed him when geelong did.
Horses for courses, and at that time we needed a mature player with AFl experience, not one that still had to step up from a lower league
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It is a good thing our leaders are in the 20- 25 age range. 8)
i dont get this so and so is too old crap.
a little different perspective.
most at richmond were saying we dont want podsiadly too old yet he was killing it in the vfl. geelong an aging side saw quality to go with quality and said yes please we will give him a chance.
what side would not want a podsiadly.
age by itself has absolutely nothing to do with it.
ben cousins anyone quality did he harm our development did he stop a kid god no he actually gave everyone something to aim at.
what is important is several things.
1/ the older player you are taking is proven and can do a job for you.
2/ you are not taking that player and foregoing your future quality 10 yr players to get him. ie trading away your firsdt and second rounders for him.
3/ does your list need experience. a simple spread sheet will tell you how many experienced players you have and where the experience is spread thru your list.
4/ the thing to always remember is older players do not harm your list as long as you look after the youth side of things and balance out what you do.
at our club we have as of 26 march 2012 the following players in the following age brackets. if you do a spread sheet you will see age games height size and depth.
28+ the veterans in the team. king, newman, tuck, miller, moore.
25 - 27 should be proven consistent leaders. foley, jackson, mcguane, i maric.
now that is the state of the real senior list. 9 players. the lack of experienced players is mindboggling. theres just 4 consistent good performers maric, foley, newman and tuck.
in that group theres just one ruckman,
two undersized tall defenders mcguane who is poor quality and moore who is injury prone.
one tall forward miller who is not up to it.
one mid in foley.
sheesh there is absolutely nothing from stopping us or that will hurt us from taking a 27 - 30 yo player as long we dont fritter away early picks to get em.
some one like merrett on a two yr contract straight away gives us cover experience size strength and barely enough proven kpds. i would love him for two yrs or even 3 and develop a good kid while hes there.
theres only 14 in the 22 thru 24 age bracket. 6 of them cant get a game another 3 are ordinary it leaves just 5 deledio, grigg, rance, riewoldt, and morris.
anyway that comment just detracts from whats been said. we have very few players of experience as long as we arent giving away good picks some good quality mature players can only help us not detract.
with the way the list is we could add 3 or 4 mature players aged 26 thru 30 and not harm our list we could do with some experience. the only way we can hurt ourselves is if we take em and they fall outside the 4 points i made. some one like merret would be ideal in free agency he is not 28 until december. we would get 3 or 4 yrs out of him.
35 players are aged between 18 and 24 with so many youngsters we can do with 3 or 4 more aged between 25 to 28+.
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i dont get this so and so is too old crap.
a little different perspective.
most at richmond were saying we dont want podsiadly too old yet he was killing it in the vfl. geelong an aging side saw quality to go with quality and said yes please we will give him a chance.
what side would not want a podsiadly.
you miss the point geelong an ageing team and probably in more of a need to ignore older players still took a 29 yr old who they deemed the goods. they didnt let age be a barrier to taking him. forget pods it could be any proven afl player who would fit a need in the mature age group.
what was wrong with them taking a 29 yr old a player who will give them 5 yrs of real good footy.id take 5 yrs of pods over 5 yrs of late nd picks or rookie picks anyday.id take 5 yrs of a player who does a job and provides depth and experience while a young boy grows into his role.id take him especially when we have a need for older players and he costs nothing more than a late nd psd or rookie pick.
i dont get why people argue over this. the pros out weigh the cons because there are no cons if you do it right. we actually did it with maric who came with less credentials than say someone like merrett and hes less than two yrs younger.
this yr im strongly advocating we use 5 or 6 picks in the nd psd and if we can get a 28 yr old merret on top of that in free agency i would be over the moon.
The highlighted part is an important point in regards to pods. I highly doubt he would have had anywhere near the impact if we had grabbed him when geelong did.
Horses for courses, and at that time we needed a mature player with AFl experience, not one that still had to step up from a lower league
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so lets get this straight, when you said geelong saw quality to go with quality, that's not really what you meant?
Do you really think that if we had recruited pods in 2009 he would have had the same impact at richmond as he did at geelong, even though there is no way in hell you could argue we would have been recruiting quality to go with quality?
I'm not sure how you can be talking about a vfl player and then talk about "any proven AFL player" as if they are the same thing?
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Rance. Grimes. Morris.
Dea. Griffiths. Batchelor.
Houli. Deledio. Grigg.
Conca. Vickery. Foley.
Ellis. Riewoldt. Edwards.
I.Maric. Martin. Cotchin.
X. X. X. X.
---
The #17. Newman fits in the puzzle too.
Tuck. Nahas. King are the intersting ones. Ditto Jackson.
I think Dimma will be banking on Astbury. Helbig. Aarnot and the next draft period to finalize his best list/22 and to finish the list for lack of a better term. By round 1 next season we should almost be like a europe football club; one good player per postion and a good back up in the 2s.
4 of me on the bench lol
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so lets get this straight, when you said geelong saw quality to go with quality, that's not really what you meant?
Do you really think that if we had recruited pods in 2009 he would have had the same impact at richmond as he did at geelong, even though there is no way in hell you could argue we would have been recruiting quality to go with quality?
I'm not sure how you can be talking about a vfl player and then talk about "any proven AFL player" as if they are the same thing?
yes because hes a damn good player. he dominated in the vfl didnt he.he walked straight into geelongs team and performed didnt he. he would have given us more thaqn post griffiths vickery in the short term.but your right perhaps pods was a bad example of a proven afl player. but the main point was pods was 29 when taken his age was not a barrier to a side who had most of its list in the 25 plus age bracket.
its a simple criteria and i thought it was pretty easy to follow how we get bogged down in these discussions is beyond me.
1/ the older player you are taking is proven and can do a job for you. i have no doubt pods if taken would have done a job for us. he was a proven vfl player in fact one of the best in that comp for yrs.
2/ you are not taking that player and foregoing your future quality 10 yr players to get him, ie giving up 1st and 2nd rnd picks for a mature player.
3/ ask yourself does your list lack experience and will the player help alleviate this probnlem ie a player like pods would be invaluable even at age 29 if jack went down. a simple spread sheet will tell you where you lack and how much depth you have in each area.
4/ always remember an older player based on age alone cannot harm your list as long as you look after the youth side of it first and the player in question can play.
you are arguing over one point that pods was not afl quality fair enough but that is not what the post is about. tell me what do you disagree with in those 4 points. tell me my you think taking a mature player or two who fit within those 4 points will hurt us.
forget pods all you are doing is detract from the main points im trying to make.i dont want to get caught up on how clubs or us rate players your dud may be my good player.thing is pods was a top notch vfl player and had been for yrs. a club like geelong full of ageing players saw fit to take an experienced mature player at age 29. we and all other clubs ignored him because he was too old apparently. well i hope at richmond we have lernt something from that.
maybe you disagree that we have very few in the 25 plus age brackets. maybe you disagree we have few 100 gamers. you probably disagree with the very point that getting a proven mature player who will cost little like merrett ie thru free agency is not going to harm us. if you dont disagree a cant see the point of your post.
i ask how can taking a good player be harmful to our list or any list if you have few experienced players and you are not paying much for them. the age is not important as long as we are not getting a dud and selling the future away. the state of the list says we can do with a few more seniors who can play.
at 29 straight out of the vfl pods would have filled a role but pods is probably one who should be left for the why dont we take more mature players out of state leagues debate. pods fit a lot of good criteria to get drafted and it was a disgrace by all clubs that he had to wait so long to get a chance.
just as an example merrett would fill a need and offer something we have no depth in. his age should not be a barrier to us taking him, its not as if we are overflowing with older players and older players who are any good.
the only way taking a 25 - 28+ yo can hurt us is if we give up 1st and 2nd rounders to get them or they are high risk underperformers.
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pods is overrated and carried by a good team
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http://oneeyed-richmond.com/forum/index.php?topic=4082.0
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http://oneeyed-richmond.com/forum/index.php?topic=4082.0
Was waiting for that. Fact is we would have rookied him had the AFL allowed it. They didn't. The AFL changed the rules the following year and Geelong rookied him. Not main list, but rookie list.
But that would be facts inconveniently getting in the way of opinion.
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So Claw, how's Orren Stephenson working out for your mighty Cats this year?
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About the same as Beau Wilkes
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Does anyone know what Griff is like playing forward??
A +200cm KPF with a straight 60m punt... wowsers :shh
Could probably take the reigns from TV and ruck a bit
Thoughts?
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Does anyone know what Griff is like playing forward??
A +200cm KPF with a straight 60m punt... wowsers :shh
Could probably take the reigns from TV and ruck a bit
Thoughts?
In juniors he was called tony lockett 2nd comming :shh
Unlike carisle and black eh claw
If griff goes forward i see griff jack vickey together as 3 kpp long term.
Then we need another tall back so astbury is key. Grimes full back. Rance chb
Astbury 3rd
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who is black? :huh
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who is black? :huh
Our old mate. Got drafted last year and that's why he doesn't return your calls these days.
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:'(
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so lets get this straight, when you said geelong saw quality to go with quality, that's not really what you meant?
Do you really think that if we had recruited pods in 2009 he would have had the same impact at richmond as he did at geelong, even though there is no way in hell you could argue we would have been recruiting quality to go with quality?
I'm not sure how you can be talking about a vfl player and then talk about "any proven AFL player" as if they are the same thing?
yes because hes a damn good player. he dominated in the vfl didnt he.he walked straight into geelongs team and performed didnt he. he would have given us more thaqn post griffiths vickery in the short term.but your right perhaps pods was a bad example of a proven afl player. but the main point was pods was 29 when taken his age was not a barrier to a side who had most of its list in the 25 plus age bracket.
its a simple criteria and i thought it was pretty easy to follow how we get bogged down in these discussions is beyond me.
1/ the older player you are taking is proven and can do a job for you. i have no doubt pods if taken would have done a job for us. he was a proven vfl player in fact one of the best in that comp for yrs.
2/ you are not taking that player and foregoing your future quality 10 yr players to get him, ie giving up 1st and 2nd rnd picks for a mature player.
3/ ask yourself does your list lack experience and will the player help alleviate this probnlem ie a player like pods would be invaluable even at age 29 if jack went down. a simple spread sheet will tell you where you lack and how much depth you have in each area.
4/ always remember an older player based on age alone cannot harm your list as long as you look after the youth side of it first and the player in question can play.
you are arguing over one point that pods was not afl quality fair enough but that is not what the post is about. tell me what do you disagree with in those 4 points. tell me my you think taking a mature player or two who fit within those 4 points will hurt us.
forget pods all you are doing is detract from the main points im trying to make.i dont want to get caught up on how clubs or us rate players your dud may be my good player.thing is pods was a top notch vfl player and had been for yrs. a club like geelong full of ageing players saw fit to take an experienced mature player at age 29. we and all other clubs ignored him because he was too old apparently. well i hope at richmond we have lernt something from that.
maybe you disagree that we have very few in the 25 plus age brackets. maybe you disagree we have few 100 gamers. you probably disagree with the very point that getting a proven mature player who will cost little like merrett ie thru free agency is not going to harm us. if you dont disagree a cant see the point of your post.
i ask how can taking a good player be harmful to our list or any list if you have few experienced players and you are not paying much for them. the age is not important as long as we are not getting a dud and selling the future away. the state of the list says we can do with a few more seniors who can play.
at 29 straight out of the vfl pods would have filled a role but pods is probably one who should be left for the why dont we take more mature players out of state leagues debate. pods fit a lot of good criteria to get drafted and it was a disgrace by all clubs that he had to wait so long to get a chance.
just as an example merrett would fill a need and offer something we have no depth in. his age should not be a barrier to us taking him, its not as if we are overflowing with older players and older players who are any good.
the only way taking a 25 - 28+ yo can hurt us is if we give up 1st and 2nd rounders to get them or they are high risk underperformers.
perhaps the reason you end up in debates about points that are not your point, is because in making your point you raise a plethora of points?
Yes Podsiadly was a bad example to use.
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Does anyone know what Griff is like playing forward??
A +200cm KPF with a straight 60m punt... wowsers :shh
Could probably take the reigns from TV and ruck a bit
Thoughts?
dunno why you bought me into it i didnt say griffiths cant play just that i liked black and carlisle better. i liked bastinac over all three. ya know griffiths is yet to show anything that makes me want to change my mind. i hope he does. without a doubt to this point carlisle isthe better performed player of the three talls black and griffiths are coming from a fair way back because of injury.
sheesh griff isnt even playing forward. so id say if all thrree clubs took all three players hoping for forwards we are well behind. ;)
finally i reckon ive done well ive picked three players all after our pick and all three look like being players so whats your point here.
bud if we all just agreed with each other and the club we would be a boring lot.the club may have it right but does that mean ive got it wrong i dont think so.
theres a lesson here never speak your mind never go against the crowd because some just cant handle it.
In juniors he was called tony lockett 2nd comming :shh
Unlike carisle and black eh claw
If griff goes forward i see griff jack vickey together as 3 kpp long term.
Then we need another tall back so astbury is key. Grimes full back. Rance chb
Astbury 3rd
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so lets get this straight, when you said geelong saw quality to go with quality, that's not really what you meant?
Do you really think that if we had recruited pods in 2009 he would have had the same impact at richmond as he did at geelong, even though there is no way in hell you could argue we would have been recruiting quality to go with quality?
I'm not sure how you can be talking about a vfl player and then talk about "any proven AFL player" as if they are the same thing?
yes because hes a damn good player. he dominated in the vfl didnt he.he walked straight into geelongs team and performed didnt he. he would have given us more thaqn post griffiths vickery in the short term.but your right perhaps pods was a bad example of a proven afl player. but the main point was pods was 29 when taken his age was not a barrier to a side who had most of its list in the 25 plus age bracket.
its a simple criteria and i thought it was pretty easy to follow how we get bogged down in these discussions is beyond me.
1/ the older player you are taking is proven and can do a job for you. i have no doubt pods if taken would have done a job for us. he was a proven vfl player in fact one of the best in that comp for yrs.
2/ you are not taking that player and foregoing your future quality 10 yr players to get him, ie giving up 1st and 2nd rnd picks for a mature player.
3/ ask yourself does your list lack experience and will the player help alleviate this probnlem ie a player like pods would be invaluable even at age 29 if jack went down. a simple spread sheet will tell you where you lack and how much depth you have in each area.
4/ always remember an older player based on age alone cannot harm your list as long as you look after the youth side of it first and the player in question can play.
you are arguing over one point that pods was not afl quality fair enough but that is not what the post is about. tell me what do you disagree with in those 4 points. tell me my you think taking a mature player or two who fit within those 4 points will hurt us.
forget pods all you are doing is detract from the main points im trying to make.i dont want to get caught up on how clubs or us rate players your dud may be my good player.thing is pods was a top notch vfl player and had been for yrs. a club like geelong full of ageing players saw fit to take an experienced mature player at age 29. we and all other clubs ignored him because he was too old apparently. well i hope at richmond we have lernt something from that.
maybe you disagree that we have very few in the 25 plus age brackets. maybe you disagree we have few 100 gamers. you probably disagree with the very point that getting a proven mature player who will cost little like merrett ie thru free agency is not going to harm us. if you dont disagree a cant see the point of your post.
i ask how can taking a good player be harmful to our list or any list if you have few experienced players and you are not paying much for them. the age is not important as long as we are not getting a dud and selling the future away. the state of the list says we can do with a few more seniors who can play.
at 29 straight out of the vfl pods would have filled a role but pods is probably one who should be left for the why dont we take more mature players out of state leagues debate. pods fit a lot of good criteria to get drafted and it was a disgrace by all clubs that he had to wait so long to get a chance.
just as an example merrett would fill a need and offer something we have no depth in. his age should not be a barrier to us taking him, its not as if we are overflowing with older players and older players who are any good.
the only way taking a 25 - 28+ yo can hurt us is if we give up 1st and 2nd rounders to get them or they are high risk underperformers.
perhaps the reason you end up in debates about points that are not your point, is because in making your point you raise a plethora of points?
Yes Podsiadly was a bad example to use.
what 4 points too many to comprehend. no answer to the gist of whats being said. but ya know what i didnt expect an answer . those who open their moths for the sake of it usually dont.
cmon tell me why we should not be taking mature players and what harm they can do to us with the 4/ points i made in mind. substance mate it goes a long way.why are you against mature players.
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(http://starsmedia.ign.com/stars/image/article/992/992212/ocd-family-guys-buzz-killington-20090605014401901.jpg)
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so lets get this straight, when you said geelong saw quality to go with quality, that's not really what you meant?
Do you really think that if we had recruited pods in 2009 he would have had the same impact at richmond as he did at geelong, even though there is no way in hell you could argue we would have been recruiting quality to go with quality?
I'm not sure how you can be talking about a vfl player and then talk about "any proven AFL player" as if they are the same thing?
yes because hes a damn good player. he dominated in the vfl didnt he.he walked straight into geelongs team and performed didnt he. he would have given us more thaqn post griffiths vickery in the short term.but your right perhaps pods was a bad example of a proven afl player. but the main point was pods was 29 when taken his age was not a barrier to a side who had most of its list in the 25 plus age bracket.
its a simple criteria and i thought it was pretty easy to follow how we get bogged down in these discussions is beyond me.
1/ the older player you are taking is proven and can do a job for you. i have no doubt pods if taken would have done a job for us. he was a proven vfl player in fact one of the best in that comp for yrs.
2/ you are not taking that player and foregoing your future quality 10 yr players to get him, ie giving up 1st and 2nd rnd picks for a mature player.
3/ ask yourself does your list lack experience and will the player help alleviate this probnlem ie a player like pods would be invaluable even at age 29 if jack went down. a simple spread sheet will tell you where you lack and how much depth you have in each area.
4/ always remember an older player based on age alone cannot harm your list as long as you look after the youth side of it first and the player in question can play.
you are arguing over one point that pods was not afl quality fair enough but that is not what the post is about. tell me what do you disagree with in those 4 points. tell me my you think taking a mature player or two who fit within those 4 points will hurt us.
forget pods all you are doing is detract from the main points im trying to make.i dont want to get caught up on how clubs or us rate players your dud may be my good player.thing is pods was a top notch vfl player and had been for yrs. a club like geelong full of ageing players saw fit to take an experienced mature player at age 29. we and all other clubs ignored him because he was too old apparently. well i hope at richmond we have lernt something from that.
maybe you disagree that we have very few in the 25 plus age brackets. maybe you disagree we have few 100 gamers. you probably disagree with the very point that getting a proven mature player who will cost little like merrett ie thru free agency is not going to harm us. if you dont disagree a cant see the point of your post.
i ask how can taking a good player be harmful to our list or any list if you have few experienced players and you are not paying much for them. the age is not important as long as we are not getting a dud and selling the future away. the state of the list says we can do with a few more seniors who can play.
at 29 straight out of the vfl pods would have filled a role but pods is probably one who should be left for the why dont we take more mature players out of state leagues debate. pods fit a lot of good criteria to get drafted and it was a disgrace by all clubs that he had to wait so long to get a chance.
just as an example merrett would fill a need and offer something we have no depth in. his age should not be a barrier to us taking him, its not as if we are overflowing with older players and older players who are any good.
the only way taking a 25 - 28+ yo can hurt us is if we give up 1st and 2nd rounders to get them or they are high risk underperformers.
perhaps the reason you end up in debates about points that are not your point, is because in making your point you raise a plethora of points?
Yes Podsiadly was a bad example to use.
what 4 points too many to comprehend. no answer to the gist of whats being said. but ya know what i didnt expect an answer . those who open their moths for the sake of it usually dont.
cmon tell me why we should not be taking mature players and what harm they can do to us with the 4/ points i made in mind. substance mate it goes a long way.why are you against mature players.
Craw, last time you threw down such a challenge to me and i bothered to take the time to respond, you didnt, or couldnt, take the time to respond directly back. all you did was make a snide comment in a different thread about my compasrison of i Maric to Jamar.
FFW I have never said we should not be taking mature players, thats just your imagination doing it's thing, but as i did say, horses for courses. Just as you dont discount someone based solely on their age, you must not neglect their age when you are weighing up all considerations.
Pretty simple really.
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so lets get this straight, when you said geelong saw quality to go with quality, that's not really what you meant?
Do you really think that if we had recruited pods in 2009 he would have had the same impact at richmond as he did at geelong, even though there is no way in hell you could argue we would have been recruiting quality to go with quality?
I'm not sure how you can be talking about a vfl player and then talk about "any proven AFL player" as if they are the same thing?
yes because hes a damn good player. he dominated in the vfl didnt he.he walked straight into geelongs team and performed didnt he. he would have given us more thaqn post griffiths vickery in the short term.but your right perhaps pods was a bad example of a proven afl player. but the main point was pods was 29 when taken his age was not a barrier to a side who had most of its list in the 25 plus age bracket.
its a simple criteria and i thought it was pretty easy to follow how we get bogged down in these discussions is beyond me.
1/ the older player you are taking is proven and can do a job for you. i have no doubt pods if taken would have done a job for us. he was a proven vfl player in fact one of the best in that comp for yrs.
2/ you are not taking that player and foregoing your future quality 10 yr players to get him, ie giving up 1st and 2nd rnd picks for a mature player.
3/ ask yourself does your list lack experience and will the player help alleviate this probnlem ie a player like pods would be invaluable even at age 29 if jack went down. a simple spread sheet will tell you where you lack and how much depth you have in each area.
4/ always remember an older player based on age alone cannot harm your list as long as you look after the youth side of it first and the player in question can play.
you are arguing over one point that pods was not afl quality fair enough but that is not what the post is about. tell me what do you disagree with in those 4 points. tell me my you think taking a mature player or two who fit within those 4 points will hurt us.
forget pods all you are doing is detract from the main points im trying to make.i dont want to get caught up on how clubs or us rate players your dud may be my good player.thing is pods was a top notch vfl player and had been for yrs. a club like geelong full of ageing players saw fit to take an experienced mature player at age 29. we and all other clubs ignored him because he was too old apparently. well i hope at richmond we have lernt something from that.
maybe you disagree that we have very few in the 25 plus age brackets. maybe you disagree we have few 100 gamers. you probably disagree with the very point that getting a proven mature player who will cost little like merrett ie thru free agency is not going to harm us. if you dont disagree a cant see the point of your post.
i ask how can taking a good player be harmful to our list or any list if you have few experienced players and you are not paying much for them. the age is not important as long as we are not getting a dud and selling the future away. the state of the list says we can do with a few more seniors who can play.
at 29 straight out of the vfl pods would have filled a role but pods is probably one who should be left for the why dont we take more mature players out of state leagues debate. pods fit a lot of good criteria to get drafted and it was a disgrace by all clubs that he had to wait so long to get a chance.
just as an example merrett would fill a need and offer something we have no depth in. his age should not be a barrier to us taking him, its not as if we are overflowing with older players and older players who are any good.
the only way taking a 25 - 28+ yo can hurt us is if we give up 1st and 2nd rounders to get them or they are high risk underperformers.
perhaps the reason you end up in debates about points that are not your point, is because in making your point you raise a plethora of points?
Yes Podsiadly was a bad example to use.
what 4 points too many to comprehend. no answer to the gist of whats being said. but ya know what i didnt expect an answer . those who open their moths for the sake of it usually dont.
cmon tell me why we should not be taking mature players and what harm they can do to us with the 4/ points i made in mind. substance mate it goes a long way.why are you against mature players.
Craw, last time you threw down such a challenge to me and i bothered to take the time to respond, you didnt, or couldnt, take the time to respond directly back. all you did was make a snide comment in a different thread about my compasrison of i Maric to Jamar.
FFW I have never said we should not be taking mature players, thats just your imagination doing it's thing, but as i did say, horses for courses. Just as you dont discount someone based solely on their age, you must not neglect their age when you are weighing up all considerations.
Pretty simple really.
so whats important to you when taking a mature player. all i ever get is broad statements from people they never say why we should not take older players or if we should what criteria.
its a lot like your last reply i call it fence sitting.
i mean to say i come with both the pros and cons and all i cop is fence sitting.
as for the maric jamar thing i apologise. if you havent noticed until recently i would come on here for an hour and three weeks later come on again. the reason is ive always felt this site too clique if you like.very hard to break into circles and too few posters.
thing is im now at a point where forums dont do it for me any more just too many who wont give reasons for their stands. i get fed up losing the theme of a discussion on single points. usually because someone rates a player higher than another.or if you dare say something negative about a player. thing is its impossible to talk about list management or recruiting without mentioning players. and thats the two areas im into.
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Tbh understand the last part of your post.
Wouldn't expevt to break into any circles here myself and nor will I try to.
There are great ppl on this forum, its just not a shiny happy place like big footy or pre. Consider this that run down dim lit bar. With the usual suspects inside. But that's why I like it and I'm sure others do too.
Plenty of character and charm in this place, and you all play a part in it mate. :thumbsup
It could be so much worse... We could be bummers fans on air hanger forum who are talking about getting their photo taken with the 2012 premiership cup :shh
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Not sure there's any circles to break into. ... Everyone has their say.
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haha excellent description eat_em_Alive.
People are just a bit blunter and letting their guts out a bit here lol. As long as we keep the glassings to a mininum, blood stains clash with the beer stains and cigarette burns.
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so whats important to you when taking a mature player. all i ever get is broad statements from people they never say why we should not take older players or if we should what criteria.
its a lot like your last reply i call it fence sitting.
i mean to say i come with both the pros and cons and all i cop is fence sitting.
as for the maric jamar thing i apologise. if you havent noticed until recently i would come on here for an hour and three weeks later come on again. the reason is ive always felt this site too clique if you like.very hard to break into circles and too few posters.
thing is im now at a point where forums dont do it for me any more just too many who wont give reasons for their stands. i get fed up losing the theme of a discussion on single points. usually because someone rates a player higher than another.or if you dare say something negative about a player. thing is its impossible to talk about list management or recruiting without mentioning players. and thats the two areas im into.
ok, once again dont raise so many points at once. Something i learned early on in this caper, is that by raising too many points, even if if you feel you backing up your original, it makes it too easy for someone to sidetrack.
as for what to look for in older players, it depends on where your side is at.
I argued for the getting of Bradshaw, because i saw an experienced player who could help out the younger forwards. In the end though, he wanted 3 years an i thought that was one year too many.
As it turns out the club got better value for money with Miller, because the purpose was not so much the player's on field performance, but other things they brought, and he could be aholed at any time that suited.
If we go back to podsiiadly, when he was rookied by geelong I dont think he was what we needed, at the time, as he still had a learning curve in front of him, whereas we need afl experienced players, of strong and sound character, as senior members. He would have bought very little in terms of experience and would have struggled in a side that was still a long, long way off in terms of playing to game plan and structure.
he was though a good fit for geelong, because they were a well oiled machine and he could easily fit in. he wasnt expected to lead , but to learn and do his job simply as a footballer.
we are now approaching a stage where an older player performing at a high level in a lower league may be of some benefit.
But i wont make a broad reaching statement about whether it is always a good or bad thing to do. I prefer to make a judgment on each scenario as it raises itself, on it's merits as i see it, at the time.
If that's fence sitting, then i have a picket or two firmly up my lemonade and sars.
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If that's fence sitting, then i have a picket or two firmly up my lemonade and sars.
:lol
And sadly, I just formed a mental picture! :o
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haha excellent description eat_em_Alive.
People are just a bit blunter and letting their guts out a bit here lol. As long as we keep the glassings to a mininum, blood stains clash with the beer stains and cigarette burns.
Sounds a bit like the old Anchor & Hope Owl. You never knew what you were getting when you walked into that joint.
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so whats important to you when taking a mature player. all i ever get is broad statements from people they never say why we should not take older players or if we should what criteria.
its a lot like your last reply i call it fence sitting.
i mean to say i come with both the pros and cons and all i cop is fence sitting.
as for the maric jamar thing i apologise. if you havent noticed until recently i would come on here for an hour and three weeks later come on again. the reason is ive always felt this site too clique if you like.very hard to break into circles and too few posters.
thing is im now at a point where forums dont do it for me any more just too many who wont give reasons for their stands. i get fed up losing the theme of a discussion on single points. usually because someone rates a player higher than another.or if you dare say something negative about a player. thing is its impossible to talk about list management or recruiting without mentioning players. and thats the two areas im into.
ok, once again dont raise so many points at once. Something i learned early on in this caper, is that by raising too many points, even if if you feel you backing up your original, it makes it too easy for someone to sidetrack.
as for what to look for in older players, it depends on where your side is at.
I argued for the getting of Bradshaw, because i saw an experienced player who could help out the younger forwards. In the end though, he wanted 3 years an i thought that was one year too many.
As it turns out the club got better value for money with Miller, because the purpose was not so much the player's on field performance, but other things they brought, and he could be aholed at any time that suited.
If we go back to podsiiadly, when he was rookied by geelong I dont think he was what we needed, at the time, as he still had a learning curve in front of him, whereas we need afl experienced players, of strong and sound character, as senior members. He would have bought very little in terms of experience and would have struggled in a side that was still a long, long way off in terms of playing to game plan and structure.
he was though a good fit for geelong, because they were a well oiled machine and he could easily fit in. he wasnt expected to lead , but to learn and do his job simply as a footballer.
we are now approaching a stage where an older player performing at a high level in a lower league may be of some benefit.
But i wont make a broad reaching statement about whether it is always a good or bad thing to do. I prefer to make a judgment on each scenario as it raises itself, on it's merits as i see it, at the time.
If that's fence sitting, then i have a picket or two firmly up my lemonade and sars.
fair enough basically what ive said just in a different way.
i would say atm with just 9 players on the list aged 25 plus as long as we do not trade away good picks and forgo our future taking 3 or 4 mature types cannot hurt us but more likely give us a benefit.
the player that bought this debate on was merrett. imo he would be a perfect short term fit for us if we could get him cheap.
if moore could get back to his best we would have some sort of real depth and genuine experience to call on in that area which at the end of the day is what im slanting toward in this debate.
merrett, moore, rance,grimes, and griffiths if hes to genuinely stay back all competing for three spots and if two go down you have very solid players coming in. we also have two talls on the rookie list both defenders it allows us to develop them at coburg with no need to rush them in. that imo still leaves a spot for one more tall defender on the list proper. it could be astbury but i reckon he will go forward. reckon mcguane and post are in serious trouble.
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Theres been a lot of text around here lately, someone been quoting the mahabarata or the bible or something?
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Theres been a lot of text around here lately, someone been quoting the mahabarata or the bible or something?
Ph'nglui Mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.
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lol Ill have my secretary summarise it for me into a NEAT LITTLE PACKAGE...
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You should keep posting on this website its good to hear all views.
At the end of the day we all want rfc to win flag / have as strong a list as possible
so lets get this straight, when you said geelong saw quality to go with quality, that's not really what you meant?
Do you really think that if we had recruited pods in 2009 he would have had the same impact at richmond as he did at geelong, even though there is no way in hell you could argue we would have been recruiting quality to go with quality?
I'm not sure how you can be talking about a vfl player and then talk about "any proven AFL player" as if they are the same thing?
yes because hes a damn good player. he dominated in the vfl didnt he.he walked straight into geelongs team and performed didnt he. he would have given us more thaqn post griffiths vickery in the short term.but your right perhaps pods was a bad example of a proven afl player. but the main point was pods was 29 when taken his age was not a barrier to a side who had most of its list in the 25 plus age bracket.
its a simple criteria and i thought it was pretty easy to follow how we get bogged down in these discussions is beyond me.
1/ the older player you are taking is proven and can do a job for you. i have no doubt pods if taken would have done a job for us. he was a proven vfl player in fact one of the best in that comp for yrs.
2/ you are not taking that player and foregoing your future quality 10 yr players to get him, ie giving up 1st and 2nd rnd picks for a mature player.
3/ ask yourself does your list lack experience and will the player help alleviate this probnlem ie a player like pods would be invaluable even at age 29 if jack went down. a simple spread sheet will tell you where you lack and how much depth you have in each area.
4/ always remember an older player based on age alone cannot harm your list as long as you look after the youth side of it first and the player in question can play.
you are arguing over one point that pods was not afl quality fair enough but that is not what the post is about. tell me what do you disagree with in those 4 points. tell me my you think taking a mature player or two who fit within those 4 points will hurt us.
forget pods all you are doing is detract from the main points im trying to make.i dont want to get caught up on how clubs or us rate players your dud may be my good player.thing is pods was a top notch vfl player and had been for yrs. a club like geelong full of ageing players saw fit to take an experienced mature player at age 29. we and all other clubs ignored him because he was too old apparently. well i hope at richmond we have lernt something from that.
maybe you disagree that we have very few in the 25 plus age brackets. maybe you disagree we have few 100 gamers. you probably disagree with the very point that getting a proven mature player who will cost little like merrett ie thru free agency is not going to harm us. if you dont disagree a cant see the point of your post.
i ask how can taking a good player be harmful to our list or any list if you have few experienced players and you are not paying much for them. the age is not important as long as we are not getting a dud and selling the future away. the state of the list says we can do with a few more seniors who can play.
at 29 straight out of the vfl pods would have filled a role but pods is probably one who should be left for the why dont we take more mature players out of state leagues debate. pods fit a lot of good criteria to get drafted and it was a disgrace by all clubs that he had to wait so long to get a chance.
just as an example merrett would fill a need and offer something we have no depth in. his age should not be a barrier to us taking him, its not as if we are overflowing with older players and older players who are any good.
the only way taking a 25 - 28+ yo can hurt us is if we give up 1st and 2nd rounders to get them or they are high risk underperformers.
perhaps the reason you end up in debates about points that are not your point, is because in making your point you raise a plethora of points?
Yes Podsiadly was a bad example to use.
what 4 points too many to comprehend. no answer to the gist of whats being said. but ya know what i didnt expect an answer . those who open their moths for the sake of it usually dont.
cmon tell me why we should not be taking mature players and what harm they can do to us with the 4/ points i made in mind. substance mate it goes a long way.why are you against mature players.
Craw, last time you threw down such a challenge to me and i bothered to take the time to respond, you didnt, or couldnt, take the time to respond directly back. all you did was make a snide comment in a different thread about my compasrison of i Maric to Jamar.
FFW I have never said we should not be taking mature players, thats just your imagination doing it's thing, but as i did say, horses for courses. Just as you dont discount someone based solely on their age, you must not neglect their age when you are weighing up all considerations.
Pretty simple really.
so whats important to you when taking a mature player. all i ever get is broad statements from people they never say why we should not take older players or if we should what criteria.
its a lot like your last reply i call it fence sitting.
i mean to say i come with both the pros and cons and all i cop is fence sitting.
as for the maric jamar thing i apologise. if you havent noticed until recently i would come on here for an hour and three weeks later come on again. the reason is ive always felt this site too clique if you like.very hard to break into circles and too few posters.
thing is im now at a point where forums dont do it for me any more just too many who wont give reasons for their stands. i get fed up losing the theme of a discussion on single points. usually because someone rates a player higher than another.or if you dare say something negative about a player. thing is its impossible to talk about list management or recruiting without mentioning players. and thats the two areas im into.
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10-15 yrs ago i would have killed to have a young list with playere with some talent.
Better than a bunch of 28 c graders as in past years.
To have rance grimes griff as our young/senior is a healthy postion. If abit havibg your cake at eat it wanting daniel merret waiting in the wings at coburg.
so whats important to you when taking a mature player. all i ever get is broad statements from people they never say why we should not take older players or if we should what criteria.
its a lot like your last reply i call it fence sitting.
i mean to say i come with both the pros and cons and all i cop is fence sitting.
as for the maric jamar thing i apologise. if you havent noticed until recently i would come on here for an hour and three weeks later come on again. the reason is ive always felt this site too clique if you like.very hard to break into circles and too few posters.
thing is im now at a point where forums dont do it for me any more just too many who wont give reasons for their stands. i get fed up losing the theme of a discussion on single points. usually because someone rates a player higher than another.or if you dare say something negative about a player. thing is its impossible to talk about list management or recruiting without mentioning players. and thats the two areas im into.
ok, once again dont raise so many points at once. Something i learned early on in this caper, is that by raising too many points, even if if you feel you backing up your original, it makes it too easy for someone to sidetrack.
as for what to look for in older players, it depends on where your side is at.
I argued for the getting of Bradshaw, because i saw an experienced player who could help out the younger forwards. In the end though, he wanted 3 years an i thought that was one year too many.
As it turns out the club got better value for money with Miller, because the purpose was not so much the player's on field performance, but other things they brought, and he could be aholed at any time that suited.
If we go back to podsiiadly, when he was rookied by geelong I dont think he was what we needed, at the time, as he still had a learning curve in front of him, whereas we need afl experienced players, of strong and sound character, as senior members. He would have bought very little in terms of experience and would have struggled in a side that was still a long, long way off in terms of playing to game plan and structure.
he was though a good fit for geelong, because they were a well oiled machine and he could easily fit in. he wasnt expected to lead , but to learn and do his job simply as a footballer.
we are now approaching a stage where an older player performing at a high level in a lower league may be of some benefit.
But i wont make a broad reaching statement about whether it is always a good or bad thing to do. I prefer to make a judgment on each scenario as it raises itself, on it's merits as i see it, at the time.
If that's fence sitting, then i have a picket or two firmly up my lemonade and sars.
fair enough basically what ive said just in a different way.
i would say atm with just 9 players on the list aged 25 plus as long as we do not trade away good picks and forgo our future taking 3 or 4 mature types cannot hurt us but more likely give us a benefit.
the player that bought this debate on was merrett. imo he would be a perfect short term fit for us if we could get him cheap.
if moore could get back to his best we would have some sort of real depth and genuine experience to call on in that area which at the end of the day is what im slanting toward in this debate.
merrett, moore, rance,grimes, and griffiths if hes to genuinely stay back all competing for three spots and if two go down you have very solid players coming in. we also have two talls on the rookie list both defenders it allows us to develop them at coburg with no need to rush them in. that imo still leaves a spot for one more tall defender on the list proper. it could be astbury but i reckon he will go forward. reckon mcguane and post are in serious trouble.