One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: one-eyed on October 26, 2012, 03:36:24 PM
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Depth key for Tigers
By James Dampney, Nick Bowen and Mark Macgugan
afl.com.au
3:07 PM Fri 26 Oct, 2012
Richmond secured former North Melbourne and West Coast forward Aaron Edwards on Friday to bolster its depth as it prepares for a serious tilt at a first finals appearance in more than a decade.
The Tigers sent AFL Draft pick 74 to the Kangaroos for Edwards, who will provide back up for Jack Riewoldt and Tyrone Vickery and fills the void left by Brad Miller's retirement.
Edwards played 82 AFL matches with the Eagles and North, kicking 124 goals.
"We felt we needed another forward to bring in," Richmond football manager Craig Cameron told Trade Week Radio.
"Brad Miller obviously retired at the end of this year and we suffered a little bit when Tyrone Vickery went down last year in terms of our goal output.
"Aaron was available, we saw it as an area we were probably at risk if we had a number of injuries, so we thought for a fourth-round draft pick it wasn't a bad trade."
The Tigers have been steadily improving under coach Damien Hardwick, and are focused on reaching the top eight in 2013.
The club has been happy to blood youngsters in recent years, Cameron said, but the time had come to add depth to an improving list.
"When we got injuries last year we were bringing in a lot of kids that weren't quite ready," he said.
"While that's been OK in the last couple of years in trying to give them experience, it's really important for us to give our squad a chance to play finals next year.
"If we get injuries, we don't want to be going back to guys who have played one game or no games or kids who just aren't ready.
"We'd prefer seasoned players running out for us."
Edwards resurrected his career at North Melbourne, with his best season coming in 2011, kicking 36 goals from his 19 appearances.
http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/150333/default.aspx
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As pointless as the Miller experiment.
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Would rather a seasoned player in Edwards than throwing Elton into the deep end like we did against Adelaide this year. Give Elton another year at Coburg, with a promotion if he consistently shows that he deserves to be playing at the top level.
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Why not give Elton and Brett o games so we don't have to resort to this
Edwards,Miller same poo
One discarded from Melbourne and the other from noughtmelbourne and 17 other clubs
What does that tell you
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Why not give Elton and Brett o games so we don't have to resort to this
Coz they aint ready yet and may never be. If/when they are ready, then they will get priority over Edwards. Pretty simple.
Edwards is not the answer, but he provides a bit of flexibility while we develop the answer.
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Why not give Elton and Brett o games so we don't have to resort to this
Coz they aint ready yet and may never be. If/when they are ready, then they will get priority over Edwards. Pretty simple.
Edwards is not the answer, but he provides a bit of flexibility while we develop the answer.
The same flexibility that Miller provided?
Just asking that's all because both are in the same boat IMO
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The same flexibility that Miller provided?
Yes. Miller did provide flexibility. He played a number of games and performed a role that our developing talls were'nt capable of performing. He was handy pick-up, all things considered. As long as we dont have to give up anything for them and we continue to draft young talls simultaneously, then I have no problem with these types coming in.
They are stop-gap players, no doubt. But stop-gaps are necessary sometimes.
Plus Edwards is a better player than Miller.
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oh well it will be all played out next year. :thumbsup
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The same flexibility that Miller provided?
Yes. Miller did provide flexibility. He played a number of games and performed a role that our developing talls were'nt capable of performing. He was handy pick-up, all things considered. As long as we dont have to give up anything for them and we continue to draft young talls simultaneously, then I have no problem with these types coming in.
They are stop-gap players, no doubt. But stop-gaps are necessary sometimes.
Plus Edwards is a better player than Miller.
Welcome to the forum Craig Cameron
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The same flexibility that Miller provided?
Yes. Miller did provide flexibility. He played a number of games and performed a role that our developing talls were'nt capable of performing. He was handy pick-up, all things considered. As long as we dont have to give up anything for them and we continue to draft young talls simultaneously, then I have no problem with these types coming in.
They are stop-gap players, no doubt. But stop-gaps are necessary sometimes.
Plus Edwards is a better player than Miller.
Look you never know, some good players have come from pick 74 or there abouts, Nick Duigan, Jeff Garlett and a few hopefuls Paul Seedsman Collingwood. But often clubs just pass at pick 74, so if your guaranteed a level of player its not necessrily a bad idea.
In 2010 we passed with pick 79 and in 2009 we took Ben Nason.
If you look at it in those terms its a free average AFL standard forward who can kick but is lazy.
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The idea is to rid the club of mediocrity not bring it in from other clubs. :facepalm
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The idea is to rid the club of mediocrity not bring it in from other clubs. :facepalm
Which is why gurus Cameron and Hartley passed on big Jesse White
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The idea is to rid the club of mediocrity not bring it in from other clubs. :facepalm
Which is why gurus Cameron and Hartley passed on big Jesse White
No no coach he got potential written all over him. :clapping
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The idea is to rid the club of mediocrity not bring it in from other clubs. :facepalm
Which is why gurus Cameron and Hartley passed on big Jesse White
No no coach he got potential written all over him. :clapping
Coach was being nice. What he meant to say was White is stuffing poo. :lol
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I put Edwards in the same category as White and Miller
Useless . If any has more upside its White only due to age, marginally
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I put Edwards in the same category as White and Miller
Useless . If any has more upside its White only due to age, marginally
Edwards averages 2 goals a game over last 2 seasons. Miles ahead of those 2.
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I put Edwards in the same category as White and Miller
Useless . If any has more upside its White only due to age, marginally
And can play ruck/forward so a much better depth player.
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(http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2012/10/17/1226498/125367-jesse-white.jpg)
Jesse White > Edwards + Miller
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Jesse White is a crab
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Jesse White is a crab
Being nice too.
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Why not give Elton and Brett o games so we don't have to resort to this
Edwards,Miller same poo
One discarded from Melbourne and the other from noughtmelbourne and 17 other clubs
What does that tell you
elton is a 197cm kpf whos in competition for a spot with both griffiths and astbury hes a second yr tall who should not be expecting more than 5 or so games for experience or when injury happens. if he actually performas at coburg and forces his way in all the better.
when we first got miller vickery had done nothing, griffiths could not get on the park and astbury suffered a severe injury. all three were babies and not ready for afl. there was bloody good logic and common sense in getting miller if you cant acknowledge that you are being deliberately ignorant.
we have just 2 what you would term permanent medium sized forwards. 19yo b o hanlon who has a long way to go and now 28yo aaron edwards. we could do with another somewhere in between who is ready to play. some may say we have that player in 26yo knights.
not being a smart arse here but you really do need to acknowledge that the list is made up of different types.
playes of the same types need to be spread thru various stages of development and age. its list balance
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Ricky Petterd would bridge the gap between Edwards and O'Hanlon.
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Why not give Elton and Brett o games so we don't have to resort to this
Edwards,Miller same poo
One discarded from Melbourne and the other from noughtmelbourne and 17 other clubs
What does that tell you
elton is a 197cm kpf whos in competition for a spot with both griffiths and astbury hes a second yr tall who should not be expecting more than 5 or so games for experience or when injury happens. if he actually performas at coburg and forces his way in all the better.
when we first got miller vickery had done nothing, griffiths could not get on the park and astbury suffered a severe injury. all three were babies and not ready for afl. there was bloody good logic and common sense in getting miller if you cant acknowledge that you are being deliberately ignorant.
we have just 2 what you would term permanent medium sized forwards. 19yo b o hanlon who has a long way to go and now 28yo aaron edwards. we could do with another somewhere in between who is ready to play. some may say we have that player in 26yo knights.
not being a smart arse here but you really do need to acknowledge that the list is made up of different types.
playes of the same types need to be spread thru various stages of development and age. its list balance
You then must acknowledge one thing also.... We didn't make finals. So what's the point playing a used discarded dud in Miller when he was only getting in the way of a young developing player in Elton.
The match committee have a choice. Leave Miller in when it's clearly not working or play the youngster even though he mightn't be ready and put some games into him for his personal development or play another has been wannabe in Mcguane.
Well they chose mcguane and that didn't work either.
So what was achieved?
We missed the finals again.
We failed to get games into a young tall forward.
We found out that 2 of those aren't going to get us anywhere. ie Miller, Mcguane.
I'm not saying that Elton was ready. What I'm saying is that sometimes it doesn't hurt to play the youngsters and just see what he can do. He'll learn a hell of a lot more playing in the big league than playing in a substandard comp at a substandard club.
In doing this you either fast track development or find out if he's useless ie. Post
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what you dont seem to understand is that if a kid is not ready to play, them playing him is not development.
It does no one any good to get bashed from pillar to post and the only kicks you get are in the arse.
Some kids will step up, some wont. Elton showed he has ability, but also showed he is not ready. even at coburg he only showed glimpses
you would have played grffiths while still recovering from injury. How smart is that?
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what you dont seem to understand is that if a kid is not ready to play, them playing him is not development.
It does no one any good to get bashed from pillar to post and the only kicks you get are in the arse.
Some kids will step up, some wont. Elton showed he has ability, but also showed he is not ready. even at coburg he only showed glimpses
you would have played grffiths while still recovering from injury. How smart is that?
Jack darling. 20 games in first year
Tom Hawkins 10 games first year
Taylor walker 14 games in first year
Jonathan Brown 13 games first year
Travis Cloke 15 games in first year.
Yeh it was stupid for these clubs to gift these guys games in their first year. Some people were critical of playing them so early. Some people still don't rate them.
Stupid stupid stupid stupid. :banghead
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How many did Richard Tambling play in his first year ?
But in all due respect i agree with you Dr Tigra 100 %
should of played these guys when we lost to freo finals flame went out
we need to get games into youngsters who will be ther long term
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what you dont seem to understand is that if a kid is not ready to play, them playing him is not development.
It does no one any good to get bashed from pillar to post and the only kicks you get are in the arse.
Some kids will step up, some wont. Elton showed he has ability, but also showed he is not ready. even at coburg he only showed glimpses
you would have played grffiths while still recovering from injury. How smart is that?
Jack darling. 20 games in first year
Tom Hawkins 10 games first year
Taylor walker 14 games in first year
Jonathan Brown 13 games first year
Travis Cloke 15 games in first year.
Yeh it was stupid for these clubs to gift these guys games in their first year. Some people were critical of playing them so early. Some people still don't rate them.
Stupid stupid stupid stupid. :banghead
well aint that the truth. You could hear the cries of how useless Hawkins was in his first few seasons
Too slow, wast of talent, fat, lazy.
look at him now.
with the right development and support group around anything is possible and players can get fast tracked.
Al no one mentioned griffiths so not sure what he has to do with this and as for Elton not being ready. Gee you saw that in the 1 game he played in Adelaide. You have a keen eye for talent then.
List balance you are joking arent you Claw? Yep Miller provided list balance last year did he?
If we had to bring in a seasoned recruit i would've preferred Moloney but thats just me.
He still has what it takes IMO and could prove a good foil if Foley fails to come up and we lost one of Lids or Cotch through injury
Edwards happy to be proven wrong because if i am then it must mean we are playing finals.
I just hope if our season is shot mid year then i dont see the likes of Mcguane, White, Edwards, Jackson ever again in a RFC jumper. Getting games into kids should've been our no 1 priority last year
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Why not give Elton and Brett o games so we don't have to resort to this
Edwards,Miller same poo
One discarded from Melbourne and the other from noughtmelbourne and 17 other clubs
What does that tell you
elton is a 197cm kpf whos in competition for a spot with both griffiths and astbury hes a second yr tall who should not be expecting more than 5 or so games for experience or when injury happens. if he actually performas at coburg and forces his way in all the better.
when we first got miller vickery had done nothing, griffiths could not get on the park and astbury suffered a severe injury. all three were babies and not ready for afl. there was bloody good logic and common sense in getting miller if you cant acknowledge that you are being deliberately ignorant.
we have just 2 what you would term permanent medium sized forwards. 19yo b o hanlon who has a long way to go and now 28yo aaron edwards. we could do with another somewhere in between who is ready to play. some may say we have that player in 26yo knights.
not being a smart arse here but you really do need to acknowledge that the list is made up of different types.
playes of the same types need to be spread thru various stages of development and age. its list balance
You then must acknowledge one thing also.... We didn't make finals. So what's the point playing a used discarded dud in Miller when he was only getting in the way of a young developing player in Elton.
The match committee have a choice. Leave Miller in when it's clearly not working or play the youngster even though he mightn't be ready and put some games into him for his personal development or play another has been wannabe in Mcguane.
Well they chose mcguane and that didn't work either.
So what was achieved?
We missed the finals again.
We failed to get games into a young tall forward.
We found out that 2 of those aren't going to get us anywhere. ie Miller, Mcguane.
I'm not saying that Elton was ready. What I'm saying is that sometimes it doesn't hurt to play the youngsters and just see what he can do. He'll learn a hell of a lot more playing in the big league than playing in a substandard comp at a substandard club.
In doing this you either fast track development or find out if he's useless ie. Post
im not really sure what this has to do with edwards. or my post.but here goes anyway.
like you i was really keen to see elton get some games if for no other reason than he get a taste. especially late in the season.
obviously he was deemed to be not ready and the only other option was mcguane or miller.
riewoldt, astbury injured, vickery injured, elton not ready, post playing kpd and on the outer. griffiths playing chb. what options did we have. while i agree it would not have hurt to give elton a few games late in the yr his place atm is at coburg. hes got to be ready to go.
we probably should have bought post back in earlier and played griffiths forward. but then we are pulling another kid from pillar to post throughout a season.
it depends on how you look at our list some have griffiths and astbury as kpds me i have them as kpfs.
kpfs
riewoldt, griffiths, elton, astbury, and vickery as the ruck/for. thats it if griffiths and astbury are kpfs pretty limited when vickery and astbury are injured and griffiths has to play in defense.
if astbury and griffiths are kpds we are terribly short of tall forwards and need to address it asap.
personally griffiths imo should have played forward with post getting more games down back. what probably should have happened was derickx replaced vickery a ruckman/forward for a ruckman/forward.
our tall defenders were rance, post, grimes injured griffiths and astbury injured again very light on and aagain i have to say depending on where people think astbury and griffiths should play if forwards very deficient in kpds. probably 3 short.
as a part of list management i think it important we decide what roles griffiths and astbury are going to perform so we can actually go out and fill the holes in the list what you dont seem to understand is that if a kid is not ready to play, them playing him is not development.
It does no one any good to get bashed from pillar to post and the only kicks you get are in the arse.
Some kids will step up, some wont. Elton showed he has ability, but also showed he is not ready. even at coburg he only showed glimpses
you would have played grffiths while still recovering from injury. How smart is that?
Jack darling. 20 games in first year
Tom Hawkins 10 games first year
Taylor walker 14 games in first year
Jonathan Brown 13 games first year
Travis Cloke 15 games in first year.
Yeh it was stupid for these clubs to gift these guys games in their first year. Some people were critical of playing them so early. Some people still don't rate them.
Stupid stupid stupid stupid. :banghead
circumstance circumstance circumstance.
ask what what was different to our situation.
hmm jack darling had lynch kennedy cox he was physically ready haveing played wafl.
tom hawkins really struggled but played third fiddle to pods mooney with ottens going forward as well.
jon brown had lynch and bradshaw
cloke had tarrant and rocca none were thrown in the deep end.
they were all big physical guys all were physically capable of playing first yr. all were good enough to get games.elton while a lovely size is not physically ready and has not really shown enough to warrant a game but i agree a few games just for the experience would not have hurt as long as he had big mature bodies in the side who could carry the load.
in 2010 we had just a 21 yr old riewoldt. richo had retired and the next most experienced tall forward we had was vickery who had just 9 games and was supposed to be a future #1 ruckman. post 7 games, griffiths 0 games astbury 0 games blokes like miller were always going to get games and get em for two or three yrs while our talls developed you do realise thay take about 5 or 6 yrs to hit their peak
now ask yourself how many games and how developed were these kids by 2012 hardly at all due in main to injuries.
there was nothing wrong in getting miller there wasnt really much wrong in playing mcguane. one can understand why.
like you im hoping we see little of mcguane next yr and at various times astbury griffiths or elton along with a fit vickery and riewoldt can play as our forwards.
i apologise to all for being long winded.really have to find a way to say what i want in a shorter way.
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Ricky Petterd would bridge the gap between Edwards and O'Hanlon.
what do you think of him as a player 2011. i dont mind him but he sure has some knockers. yeah he would go some way to balancing out the age gaps here but can he play.
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what you dont seem to understand is that if a kid is not ready to play, them playing him is not development.
It does no one any good to get bashed from pillar to post and the only kicks you get are in the arse.
Some kids will step up, some wont. Elton showed he has ability, but also showed he is not ready. even at coburg he only showed glimpses
you would have played grffiths while still recovering from injury. How smart is that?
Jack darling. 20 games in first year
Tom Hawkins 10 games first year
Taylor walker 14 games in first year
Jonathan Brown 13 games first year
Travis Cloke 15 games in first year.
Yeh it was stupid for these clubs to gift these guys games in their first year. Some people were critical of playing them so early. Some people still don't rate them.
Stupid stupid stupid stupid. :banghead
so you think that because some players are capable of handling it in their first year then every one should be able to?
yep as you say stupid, stupid, stupid.
If you cant understand that all kids develop at the same rate then you are totally cluless.
If you go back through hardwicks first two years you will see that all kids got a block of three games. Those that showed they could possibly handle it were given more games. if their form and confidence dropped off they were dropped back to VFL.
those that were obviously not ready were sent back to the VFL after their three games.
That is smart player management and shows an understanding that each individual is different, something you obviously have no concept of.
To say that, oh player x played so many games in their first year so therefore all our players should be able to would have to be one of the most irrational, ignorant and naive things i have seen posted, and thats saying something.
You might as well say that because tim watson was playing senior (then VFL) footy at age 16 then anyone who isnt ready to play the day they are drafted shouldnt even be drafted., or because chris judd won a brownlow in his third year then that is the benchmark by which we judge all young players.
:stupid
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Al no one mentioned griffiths so not sure what he has to do with this and as for Elton not being ready. Gee you saw that in the 1 game he played in Adelaide. You have a keen eye for talent then.
perhaps you should try and get a better grasp of other peoples conversations before you join with with your own comments.
as for elton, yeah except for a glimpse or two of what he can provide he looked well out of his depth in that game. combine that with reports of coburg games, both from the club and on forums, there was a constant theme of showing good things for short periods of time, but going missing for long periods and being too easily pushed aside from marking contests because his body was not mature enough, and thats at VFL level.
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Jack darling. 20 games in first year Had an impact in his first game + Rising star nominee
Tom Hawkins 10 games first year Had an impact in his first game + Rising star nominee
Taylor walker 14 games in first year Was drafted in 2007 and didnt play until 2009
Travis Cloke 15 games in first year. Had an impact in his very first game + Rising star
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Ricky Petterd would bridge the gap between Edwards and O'Hanlon.
Yep, good call. Got talent and can take hold of a game, kicking lets him down and are there question marks on his work ethic? not sure, but wouldnt mind him as a 3rd medium fwd type.
Darling is the ultimate 3rd fwd type, as he can also pinch hit at times in games against weaker opponents as the main focal KPF focal point. wanted him with our first pick, ah well conca will still be a solid player
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Darling is An Absolute freak that kid.
Picky can stay at Melbourne. RFC boys don't like him...or at least they didn't a few years back ;D
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Darling is An Absolute freak that kid.
Picky can stay at Melbourne. RFC boys don't like him...or at least they didn't a few years back ;D
well he is a bit of a mummys boy :shh
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As pointless as the Miller experiment.
Get off the Jesse White train Mr Tigra.
If anything I reckon White would have cost a lot more than pick 74 for a player that may or may not have an impact. Same with Aaron. If anything Aaron is certainly an upgrade on Graham so ultimately I have no problem. Aaron will be a depth player in the fwd line. 30-40 goals a year and Edwards will have done his job.
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Ricky Petterd would bridge the gap between Edwards and O'Hanlon.
what do you think of him as a player 2011. i dont mind him but he sure has some knockers. yeah he would go some way to balancing out the age gaps here but can he play.
Maybe if he learns to mark more often above his head he would hold more marks?
perhaps he wears a d cup to avoid slapping himself in the face when leading?
Could we get him involved a wet t shirt competitions as fund raising for FTF?
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I doubt well get 30 goals from Aaron edwards. I'm thinking more like 20. I don't think he'll get enough games firstly and secondly I doubt he'll bag any 8s.
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If anything Aaron Edwards will be a good foil especially against the lower sides ie Dees the 2 new franchises and a few other halia sides like the Dogs Dons and will at least kick his 2-4 against them.
That should net him 15-20 goals next season.
I will still expect Jack to get to 80 and blokes like Knights and Vickery to be substantial contributors along with the others like Cotch Lids Tuck Grigg King Nahas Griff Astbury or whoever else.
As part of the bigger picture Edwards will fit in nicely and hey if injuries strike we don't have McGuane running in front or across any of Jack's leads.
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As pointless as the Miller experiment.
Get off the Jesse White train Mr Tigra.
If anything I reckon White would have cost a lot more than pick 74 for a player that may or may not have an impact. Same with Aaron. If anything Aaron is certainly an upgrade on Graham so ultimately I have no problem. Aaron will be a depth player in the fwd line. 30-40 goals a year and Edwards will have done his job.
I first mentioned White on a ruck thread some time ago. It was blatantly obvious at the time Maric was getting tired and Vickery was injured.
What do you guys think of Jesse White at the swans?
Anyone think he's worth looking at?
Has talent and great mobility. Doesn't get a kick though
Can play forward or ruck. Don't you think he'd be a better back up for Maric or TV if they needed a rest or got injured?
Hes got to be an improvement on the spuds we got waiting at Coburg.
And you'd think he'd come cheap.
What do you reckon?
Nothing has changed as not many rate him very highly. But my thinking then is exactly the same as now. He's young, he's a ruck/forward, he's from a club with great culture and he'd be a good backup.
I got nothing against Edwards but he shouldn't be played for any reason other than
a)we are in the hunt for a finals birth
b)we have exhausted all other options.
If we play him for any other reason it would be a joke, pointless and stupid.
If the team is drafting well and the team is finally developing players properly with a dedicated development department, then I'd expect every other tall on the list to be played ahead of him.
With White it would be different because he's young enough and can fulfill 2 specific roles and it also adds to the club in terms of player competition which helps the development of the team as a whole.
With Edwards it's Miller all over again because as far as our team is placed in its progression up the ladder, he'll never be apart of our future premiership tilt.
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edwards at 184cm is not a tall.
amazing!
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The White Crab is contracted and trade period is over so STFU
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edwards at 184cm is not a tall.
amazing!
He plays as one though.
The White Crab is contracted and trade period is over so STFU
:bow :thumbsup :clapping
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edwards at 184cm is not a tall.
amazing!
He plays as one though.
The White Crab is contracted and trade period is over so STFU
:bow :thumbsup :clapping
not all the time. to me he needs good structure arond him to do the most damage. hes a medium and if we ask him to primarily play as a key forward the whole experiment will fail.
i look upon his great aerial strength as a bonus to his all round game. to me it doesnt make him a kpf or a mark kick player.
like all med/sml forwards he relies on decent supply but he can get a kick if need be by taking a good grab.in fact he hits packs harder than our big blokes do. lots to work with this bloke ive always liked him as a player.