One-Eyed Richmond Forum

General => General Discussion => Topic started by: mightytiges on December 15, 2012, 01:48:27 PM

Title: Americans and their guns
Post by: mightytiges on December 15, 2012, 01:48:27 PM
Another massacre and this time 20 primary school kids were gunned down  :'(. When will the Yanks ever learn it ain't 1776 anymore, abolish their 2nd amendment and get some strict gun laws!

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/world/feared-dead-in-school-shooting/story-fnd134gw-1226537283734
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Crazy_Ivan on December 15, 2012, 04:43:38 PM
So sad what happened in the States once again,But no Govt would have the balls to change their constitutional right to bare arms.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: WilliamPowell on December 15, 2012, 05:07:57 PM
Obama says it is "So sad" but he like all those before him hasn't got the guts to change things

But the really sad part is that it would seem the majority of Americans believe the only way to stop this sort of carnage is not changing to strict gun laws but to just arm every single citizen and train them to shot and ask question later  :help
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: dwaino on December 15, 2012, 08:53:49 PM
If the US government ever tried disarming the citizens, the paranoid rednecks would put up one hell of a fight. A 'nation' that is nothing more than than a union of mercenary states is always doomed to imploding.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Coach on December 15, 2012, 09:04:58 PM
Horrible. So close to Christmas as well.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Mr Magic on December 15, 2012, 09:39:30 PM
Horrible. So close to Christmas as well.

Indeed. Can't begin to imagine how those parents will be feeling. :'(
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Bengal on December 15, 2012, 10:41:27 PM
i think there's a lot more to their problems than just banning semi autos..  They have serious class differences in the USA and we're following in the same fashion..  We should learn from their woeful social and economic decisions..   :banghead and  :pray it doesnt happen here more often

Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: tiga on December 15, 2012, 11:44:48 PM
So sad what happened in the States once again,But no Govt would have the balls to change their constitutional right to bare arms.

Or their right to arm Bears...  ::) Americans are clueless when it comes to taking decisive action on stopping gun violence. They are a paranoid lot that's for sure.

In all seriousness, this incident cut me to the core as both my kids are in the same age group as these poor kids who's lives were so tragically cut short. As a parent, to get a call from the school telling you that your children have been killed would be the end of the world for me. May they all rest in peace and may their parents over time learn to cope with their tragic losses.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Penelope on December 16, 2012, 09:36:00 AM
Every time something like this happens we get the same outcry about guns.
You could ban the guns but the deepset problems in our society that lead to these horrific incidents would still remain.

The question that hardly anybody asks is why? What has changed from 50 years ago that makes this poo happen?

Guns may the tool used, but they are not the cause. As with any problem, the only way to solve it is to discover the root cause and address that
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Francois Hackson on December 16, 2012, 10:16:17 AM
i agree Al but the simple fact is with stricter gun laws it would be extremely difficult for someone to come and kill 20 people, once, twice 3 times as has happened recently. People will harp on it each time something happens because well nothing ever gets done. I have a feeling this time its different. Could be wrong, but cant remember a mass shooting where so many kids were killed.

The kid had issues, yes, but so do a lot of people and with caring can be steered the right way. Its a shame his mother can no longer defend how she raised an absolute monster. Perhaps some blame needs to be squared at her
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Gigantor on December 16, 2012, 10:36:24 AM
I dont understand why a a community would want to own guns unless they are farmers or sporting shooters.We have a police force and army to protect us from all criminal activity that should suffice.And a justice system to render punishment where appropriate
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Crazy_Ivan on December 16, 2012, 11:53:43 AM
Stricter gun laws won,t solve the problem.Yesterdays killer got access to guns via his Mother whom he killed.Apparently he had mental issues and if such retrictions were brought in,he would be excluded from owning a gun but he still was able to obtain a gun via someone else{The Black market would thrive}.I agree with Al.The weapon is not the issue,but the one holding it is.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Gigantor on December 16, 2012, 12:34:05 PM
I would hazard a guess that just about everyone who has shot and killed someone other than during the call of duty(war,law enforcement) has had a mental issue
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Penelope on December 16, 2012, 01:45:59 PM
i agree Al but the simple fact is with stricter gun laws it would be extremely difficult for someone to come and kill 20 people, once, twice 3 times as has happened recently. People will harp on it each time something happens because well nothing ever gets done. I have a feeling this time its different. Could be wrong, but cant remember a mass shooting where so many kids were killed.

The kid had issues, yes, but so do a lot of people and with caring can be steered the right way. Its a shame his mother can no longer defend how she raised an absolute monster. Perhaps some blame needs to be squared at her

actually daniel, your simple fact isn't really a fact.

some fertiliser, diesel and nails will create total carnage, all easily obtained.
google how to make a bomb. there are numerous ways to do so with easily obtained ingreadients

sooner or later someone's silicon chip inside their head will be switched to overload and this will be their MO.

once its happened once, then watch the copycat slaughters follow.

Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Bengal on December 16, 2012, 02:58:54 PM
Its an interesting debate because the media, as was Howard after the Port Arthur tragedy, are promoting how well Australia has done controlling violence by the gun reform.  What they dont say is most of the violent crime Australia had prior to the gun reform was mostly suicide.  These are included in the violent crime figures and inflate the real stats around violent crime with guns..  We've had 3 major incidents

1, Queen st massacre
2, Hoddle st massacre
3 port Arthur massacre

Julian knight was a Rambo, was into guns and had a gun license..

Hoddle st and Queen st were in the same year ( 1 was a copycat after sensationalist media coverage and also had a license) and the next was 10 years later,  and remember the guy in Port Arthur was sold guns without being asked for his license, which he didnt have...  Its not in our social make up here in Australia to worship guns as it is in the USA.. 

What also happened in the 80's was mental health reform in Australia.  Institutions were dismantled and more effort was put into helping people with mental health issues instead of just locking them up and doping them up..  We became better at recognising mental illness in people and helping them.  :thumbsup

What gun control has done here i believe is lower gun thefts because not as many people have them anymore and the ones that do, have them locked up.  But it has also dropped the rates of suicide by guns..

Although suicide rates and homicide rates have remained steady over the past few decades.. they're just not by guns anymore but by other means

So in my conclusion i would say if gun control happened prior to the massacres here it wouldnt have prevented what happened, nor will it stop it happening in the USA.. 

If there is more effort put into Social reform as it was here at the same time then we may see some inroads into their issues but until then there are far to many guns in homes in the USA and its a long road they need to walk before they see the last of these massacres..  Which i dont think will ever happen.

i should add that i dont like guns and dont believe we need them in our homes.  Although there is a need for some, such as farmers to have them when needed
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: dwaino on December 16, 2012, 06:45:45 PM
Don't forget that prior to Port Arthur we didn't have a gun culture. Enthusiasts and such always had them, but remember in the US there are many who still believe it is their right to bare firearms, as it is written, out of distrust of their rulers. Gun laws in the USA is a whole different can of worms, and definitely outside of any moral or subjective compass, as a disarmament of the citizens (regardless if it's to only restrict certain kinds of firearms, it's how it will be viewed) would be interpreted as an infraction of civil rights and liberties and many will see the disarmament/restriction as the very reason they need to arm themselves against their 'oppressive government.'

Blokes like Alex Jones are, and will even more, having a field day on this one.

(http://deeprunwildcats.org/nicely/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/dont_tread_on_me.jpg)
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: dwaino on December 16, 2012, 11:10:02 PM
(http://i1264.photobucket.com/albums/jj489/dwwaino/677998D6-315A-4119-A981-6108C9F28D20-6219-00000CEDE2EE6018.jpg)
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Penelope on December 17, 2012, 12:14:30 AM
unfarginbelievable
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Bengal on December 17, 2012, 07:56:48 AM
he's alright for a conservative is Mr Turnball..  Nice tongue in cheek dig..   :clapping
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Francois Hackson on December 17, 2012, 09:45:25 AM
he's alright for a conservative is Mr Turnball..  Nice tongue in cheek dig..   :clapping

too right. I cant understand why he doesn't run for the Libs.

He would be a great leader and i know a few ALP voters who would vote for him even if he ran for them.



Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Coach on December 17, 2012, 12:47:21 PM
Was leader at the wrong time. Would be by far the best man for the job
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: one-eyed on December 17, 2012, 01:12:02 PM
A leading Democratic senator launched a bid to ban assault weapons in the wake of the latest deadly US school shooting, announcing that she will put a bill before Congress on January 3.

Dianne Feinstein, the influential chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee, said she believed President Barack Obama would support her legislation, also aimed at outlawing magazines carrying more than 10 bullets.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/democrat-dianne-feinstein-to-put-forward-legislation-to-ban-weapons/story-e6frf7jo-1226538116508
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: mightytiges on December 19, 2012, 10:44:26 PM
But the really sad part is that it would seem the majority of Americans believe the only way to stop this sort of carnage is not changing to strict gun laws but to just arm every single citizen and train them to shot and ask question later  :help
From a US Republican senator - "I wish to God she [slain school principal Dawn Hochsprung] had had an M-4 [assault rifle] in her office, locked up so when she heard gunfire, she pulls it out … and takes him out and takes his head off before he can kill those precious kids."

http://www.theage.com.au/world/senators-speak-in-favour-of-gun-reform-20121217-2bjd9.html#ixzz2FUottG9X

A UTAH sixth-grader caught with a gun at school told administrators he brought the weapon to defend himself in case of an attack similar to last week's mass shooting at a Connecticut school, officials said Tuesday.

The 11-year-old was being held in juvenile detention on suspicion of possessing a dangerous weapon and aggravated assault after other students at the suburban Salt Lake City elementary school told police he threatened them with the handgun.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/utah-boy-11-takes-gun-to-school-after-newtown-school-shooting/story-e6frf7jo-1226540399971


The obvious problem with the argument that everyone should have guns is it ignores imperfect real world scenarios. Firstly the attacker has the advantage of surprise and normally first shot. Then what is this armed teacher meant to do if there's kids between them and the gunman? Or what happens if the gunman shoots the teacher first as the attacker thereby obtaining an additional weapon to shoot others? Or what happens if it's not a school but a cinema as was the case a recent previous massacre where it's dark and no one can know for sure who and where the gunman is and who are fellow movie goers shooting at who they think is the gunman? Say hello to even more killings.

Anyway hopefully the current positive talk to finally do something about gun control is finally backed up with some action. 
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Mr Magic on December 20, 2012, 09:36:32 AM
I'm sure when those constitutional laws were drafted that they didn't envisage assault riles and mass murder of American children.

Rights to carry semi automatic guns? What about the right to be safe?

Obama should look at what Howard did. Changing our laws in the wake of Port Arthur is still one of the things he is best things he ever did.
It wasn't unpopular with the masses, quite the opposite.

Show some balls Barrack.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Francois Hackson on December 20, 2012, 12:06:15 PM
I'm sure when those constitutional laws were drafted that they didn't envisage assault riles and mass murder of American children.

Rights to carry semi automatic guns? What about the right to be safe?

Obama should look at what Howard did. Changing our laws in the wake of Port Arthur is still one of the things he is best things he ever did.
It wasn't unpopular with the masses, quite the opposite.

Show some balls Barrack.

 :thumbsup Correct me if i was wrong but what Howard did was immediately after the Port A massacre, not years after?

couldn't have said it better myself.

All talk and no action thus far from Obama. That being said if seeing little kids getting shot doesn't bring change then im afraid nothing will.

Has there ever been a massacre like this in the USA where kids were killed. It really hits home when lives so young are gone.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: dwaino on December 20, 2012, 12:11:42 PM
Don't get me wrong, I believe in firearm restrictions, but in the USA there are over 220 million registered firearms, a gun culture, and many levels of well organised crime. Will take something pretty special to get anything done in the near future. We also didn't require an amendment to our constitution. Ever watched Doomsday Preppers on Nat Geo? This is a culture of people who believe they require these weapons to protect their families from the very country and government who now look to taking them away. It's pretty naive to think the solution is as easy as signing a bill.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Penelope on December 20, 2012, 04:12:41 PM
I'm sure when those constitutional laws were drafted that they didn't envisage assault riles and mass murder of American children.

Rights to carry semi automatic guns? What about the right to be safe?

Obama should look at what Howard did. Changing our laws in the wake of Port Arthur is still one of the things he is best things he ever did.
It wasn't unpopular with the masses, quite the opposite.

Show some balls Barrack.
America is a nation founded on violence and bloodshed, that is why that was written into the constitution. Bugger me, they even went to war with themselves.

But if you think the banning of semi autos will stop this sort of thing then you are delusional. gun control is a bandaid solution, dished out by those who don't know how to address the real problem and lapped up by those that don't even know what the real problem is.

I'd love to know how gun control will stop people flipping out and wanting to do this sick poo

Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Mr Magic on December 20, 2012, 04:35:21 PM
Don't get me wrong, I believe in firearm restrictions, but in the USA there are over 220 million registered firearms, a gun culture, and many levels of well organised crime. Will take something pretty special to get anything done in the near future. We also didn't require an amendment to our constitution. Ever watched Doomsday Preppers on Nat Geo? This is a culture of people who believe they require these weapons to protect their families from the very country and government who now look to taking them away. It's pretty naive to think the solution is as easy as signing a bill.

I'd love to know how gun control will stop people flipping out and wanting to do this sick poo

I'm sure you're both quite aware of the number of mass killing spree that have occurred since Port Arthur.
In the 18 years prior to that incident there were 13 mass killings and in the 18 years since semi automatics and assault rifles were banned there has been zero.

Now obviously America is a different kettle of fish but surely they have got to try.
Even if it only prevented one of these regularly occurring slaughters it would be worth doing surely???
The alternative is to shrug shoulders?? :help

You will never eradicate it completely but they have to try to limit access to these weapons of mass destruction.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Penelope on December 20, 2012, 04:59:08 PM
if you think the alternative is to shrug shoulders i take it you are not a believer in getting to the root cause of problems.

I'm still unsure how limiting people to only access bolt and pump action rifles is the reason there have been no mass shootings in the last 18 years?

perhpas as a nation we have got better at identifying and dealing with the mentals?

Australians have never had legal access to assault rifles, i don't believe.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Mr Magic on December 20, 2012, 06:47:14 PM
I'm still unsure how limiting people to only access bolt and pump action rifles is the reason there have been no mass shootings in the last 18 years?

If it's not the reason, it's one mighty coincidence.
More nutbags around than ever.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Ox on December 20, 2012, 07:13:11 PM
Fear not.
'Tis the dawning of Aquarius.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Penelope on December 20, 2012, 09:11:25 PM
Is there?
so the only thing that has changed that could have a bearing is that people can no longer get semi autos? that is the only variable that has changed? (besides there being more nutbags than ever, IYO)

what is it about semi autos, do you think, that makes people flip out and want to kill a heap of people that other types of repeaters dont do?
Do they smell different to bolt actions?
do they implant subliminal messages that lever actions can only dream to achieve?
Are they made out of cursed metal that is not suitable for pump actions?

what is this magical force that semi autos possess?
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Mr Magic on December 20, 2012, 10:50:57 PM
what is this magical force that semi autos possess?

Pretty obvious I would have thought but anyway. The amount of lead a semi auto can get out in a short space of time is the main difference.
Faster carnage.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Francois Hackson on December 20, 2012, 11:13:29 PM
So Al do you not agree with banning guns or putting some law is place is a good start??

If not how would you start in finding the root of the problem.

I myself think guns won't solve the issue but it sure will reduce the access to such easy material to kill like this bloke.

It's like the West Gate Bridge and the rails that were put in place. A few people said why bother they will find another way to commit suicide. Whilst that may be true I think when you put a barrier between someone and something sometimes they may think twice and seek help or get help.

In this example the barrier is having difficulty obtaining an easy access to guns. Sometimes an extra 5 minutes to buy a gun may be enough to thwart such an evil thing.

Who knows
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Penelope on December 21, 2012, 12:26:13 AM
fair enough daniel, but restricting guns to those that go through a supposedly stringent gun test is different to the banning of a certain type of gun.

the other issue is that supposed "gun control" is seen as the solution. the politicians get browny votes, the massses get their way and everthing goes along the same. thats where it ends. start and finish.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Penelope on December 21, 2012, 12:46:14 AM
what is this magical force that semi autos possess?

Pretty obvious I would have thought but anyway. The amount of lead a semi auto can get out in a short space of time is the main difference.
Faster carnage.
.

actually that is not the case.
a high powered pump action can have a bullet in the breach by the time you bring it back down from  the recoil. I think a lever action is pretty close too. with practice even a bolt action isn't too far behind

The ability to shoot a large number of slow, confined, frightened , confused animals isnt that great a dfference, if at all.

if anything a manual loading gun makes you slow down and be more precise, and are generally more reliable than semi autos.

did you know that julian knight was knocked back from the army reserves because they thought he was a whacko?

so how did he have any guns? what type they were is irrelevant.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Mr Magic on December 21, 2012, 05:48:20 AM
what is this magical force that semi autos possess?

Pretty obvious I would have thought but anyway. The amount of lead a semi auto can get out in a short space of time is the main difference.
Faster carnage.
.

actually that is not the case.
a high powered pump action can have a bullet in the breach by the time you bring it back down from  the recoil. I think a lever action is pretty close too. with practice even a bolt action isn't too far behind

The ability to shoot a large number of slow, confined, frightened , confused animals isnt that great a dfference, if at all.

if anything a manual loading gun makes you slow down and be more precise, and are generally more reliable than semi autos.

Al, what you say may well be true , IF you know what you're doing with a shotgun but some of these semi autos can fire off 100 rounds without having to reload.
They are clearly the weapon of choice when it comes to mass killings. The stats out of America speak for themselves.

(http://assets.motherjones.com/interactives/projects/2012/12/updated-mass-shootings/final_weapons2.png)
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/mass-shootings-map

It's pretty clear to me that we're not going to agree on this one so I'll leave you to it. 8)
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Penelope on December 21, 2012, 06:12:46 PM
do you understand the difference between causal and association?
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: one-eyed on December 21, 2012, 06:19:49 PM
According to Ch 7 news tonight, in the States they are now producing bullet-proof backpacks for schoolkids.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: mightytiges on December 22, 2012, 05:24:43 PM
The NRA's answer to the latest massacre - wanting armed security guards at US schools. Surprise surprise - not!  ::) So what happens when the next massacre occurs at a shopping mall or at another cinema or at another university or in a city building or on public transport or when a gunman walking/driving down a busy street just opens fire in a crowded area such as Times Square on NYE? Are the NRA going to want armed security on every street corner in America just so they can resist any moves to legislate to outlaw semi-automatics?! Yep a really practical and cost-effective solution that one  ::). Not to mention armed guards wouldn't have stopped Lanza having access to these weapons in the first place that belonged to his mother in their house whom he shot dead first.

Just on aside, I was flicking through the tv channels last night and came across some American reality show called Black Oil. These two guys in a ute were late for work at one of the nearby rigs and were speeding down this road when all of a sudden another ute at the junction ahead cuts them off to stop them. A woman carrying a shotgun then gets out of her ute and walks up to them and after asking them where they were going says "this is my private property and this is my private road which has a 10 mph speed limit; if I catch you two stupid rednecks driving that fast again down my road, I'll shoot your tyres out!". Welcome to hickville America! :yep :wallywink
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: mightytiges on December 27, 2012, 01:27:01 PM
I'd guess if there's one thing 'good' coming out of this, is that every shooting in America is now being reported and everyone can see how out of control it is over in the States when firefighters attending a fire are being shot and killed. Does the NRA expect them to hold a water hose in one hand and a gun in the other!  ::).
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Judge Roughneck on January 04, 2013, 05:54:24 AM
The most scary thing is it right wing want to fix the issue by putting guards into every school carrying guns to prevent shootings.

Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Judge Roughneck on January 11, 2013, 10:19:46 PM
Another one


If only every school in America had guards in every school

 :whistle
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: dwaino on January 16, 2013, 04:50:29 PM
Lol. And right on queue, they've bought video games into it. Easier to blame parents for letting their kids play games than accept that they have a problem with their society, and their society alone.

(http://i1264.photobucket.com/albums/jj489/dwwaino/96DD3968-C4C2-436A-BA47-D0F2F9CED770-20862-000028FC709D0EA8.jpg)
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: mightytiges on January 17, 2013, 10:51:55 PM
I bet Leigh Sales wanted to knock the block off of that pro-gun loopy from the States she was interviewing tonight. "They aren't assault weapons they are defensive weapons." Yep semantics is really important when the weapons are used in massacres ::). Yep if you give gun-control a try and it works you don't need or want to go back dopey  :stupid.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Penelope on January 17, 2013, 11:19:16 PM
there's a big difference between so called assault weapons and semi automatics.

most assault or military weapons are automatic, that is you just hold the trigger and it keeps firing. the  difference between  an automatic weapon, which is designed to kill as many people as possible in a short time and a semi auto is huge, while the difference between a semi auto and a manual repeater is minimal.

There is no real reason for people to have military weapons, they don't serve any purpose other than discharging a large number of projectilse in a short time, something which can only have one purpose.

In saying that, the banning of them still will not address the real problem, and that is what causes people to flip out and want to kill as many people as possible. But as usual no one seems to want truly solve the problem, but take the easy, simplistic PC approach and seem to be doing something so as to keep the narrow minded masses happy.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: mightytiges on January 18, 2013, 12:06:15 AM
You're not going to prevent people flipping out though. Our understanding of how the brain fully works is extremely limited and there's no known cure for any mental illness. At least trying to limit people having (easy) access to these sort of weapons when they do "flip out" can save the lives of innocent others even if we can't stop the person harming themself. Sure it can be argued that it's a simplistic notion but it's pragmatic as well and something that can be enacted straight away. 


Btw these pro-gun lobbyists in America aren't far away from the cuckoo nest either. The paranoia about the Government is just crazy.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Penelope on January 18, 2013, 12:04:03 PM
some of those pro gun lobbyists built the cuckoo nest.

but what we are talking about here is just a bandaid solution.

no we will never stop people from flipping out, but perhaps putting a bit of effort into understanding why it happens so we can reduce it and managing those that are are prone to it (including restricting their access to any kind of gun, which is the case in this country), will ultimately be better in the long term than band aid solutions.

50 years ago these massacres were rare, now we seem to get a couple per year. So what has changed? that is where you start looking for answers.

The problem is that so called intelligent people in our society, who tend to be the decision makers and influential lobbyists, have only learned to answer questions, questions thought up by similar types and they are taught how to answer those questions.

solutions are found by asking the right questions first, and not enough of this happens

as Claude Levi-Strauss said;
"The scientific mind does not so much provide the right answers as ask the right questions."

Albert Einstein pretty much summed it up with;
"It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education"

and as to why humans rather bandaid solutions rather than real ones,

"People love chopping wood. In this activity one immediately sees results"
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Yeahright on January 18, 2013, 12:35:42 PM
(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/31140155.jpg)
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: gerkin greg on January 18, 2013, 12:44:46 PM
i hate chopping wood
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Ox on January 18, 2013, 12:55:27 PM
After much thought i have concluded the following.

Who gives a stuff.
Let them kill themselves.
They kill everyone else so it makes sense that they kill themselves too.

Our main concern as the rest of the world should be getting them to keep their stuffing noses out of OURS and everyone else's COUNTRIES AND BUSINESS.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Ox on January 18, 2013, 12:57:18 PM
Give them more guns and take away their passports.
Should be sorted in 100 years
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Judge Roughneck on January 21, 2013, 11:37:54 AM
Another one in new Mexico.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Yeahright on January 23, 2013, 09:13:56 PM
Another one in new Mexico.

I thought it was Texas?
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: dwaino on January 23, 2013, 09:26:01 PM
Another one in new Mexico.

I thought it was Texas?

I heard there was one in Albuquerque? If that's the one Bents is talking about then that's New Mexico.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Penelope on January 23, 2013, 10:45:59 PM
apparently the bloke who shot up the cinema showing the batman movie told his psych that he had fantasies of killing lots of people, and she rejected offers by the cops to have him locked up for assessment after she voiced her concerns to them.  :huh

Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Yeahright on January 23, 2013, 11:30:51 PM
Another one in new Mexico.

I thought it was Texas?

I heard there was one in Albuquerque? If that's the one Bents is talking about then that's New Mexico.

Probably right
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Ox on January 23, 2013, 11:55:13 PM
what did they think was gonna happen?
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Judge Roughneck on January 30, 2013, 03:56:17 PM
Marion Hammer is a fking nutbag.

“”anning people and things because of the way they look went out a long time ago. But here they are again. The color of a gun. The way it looks. It’s just bad politics.”

 :whistle
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Chuck17 on January 30, 2013, 04:00:16 PM
Talking about the colour of a gun it would be good if they stopped with the pink barrelled guns in their department stores
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Penelope on February 07, 2013, 09:29:36 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZ_v-uEZFvU
 :lol
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: tiga on February 07, 2013, 04:18:19 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZ_v-uEZFvU
 :lol

I can imagine all the bears in the surrounding woods would be peeing themselves laughing at this.

Bear 1: "And to think that Billy Bear got shot by this fool!!"
Bear 2: " Yeah but Billy was stupid......He was the fourth Bear that nobody talked about cause Goldilocks whooped his ass."  ;D
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: YB77 on February 07, 2013, 05:05:00 PM
Lets ramp it up a bit......there are some dumb asses in this clip, wouldnt be suprised if there was a death or two either :shh :shh

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bqT6-RoGhU&feature=related
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: tiga on February 08, 2013, 10:33:14 AM
Just goes to show that guns don't kill people. Stupid people with guns kill people.

Highlights

LMAO @ the chick with the AK47.  :rollin
LMAO@ alll the doofuses suffering from "scope eye"  :rollin

Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: 1965 on February 08, 2013, 10:37:24 AM
Just goes to show that guns don't kill people. Stupid people with guns kill people.


Take the guns off the stupid people and people don't get killed.

 :thumbsup
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: tiga on February 08, 2013, 11:07:34 AM
Just goes to show that guns don't kill people. Stupid people with guns kill people.


Take the guns of the stupid people and people don't get killed.

 :thumbsup

I was waiting for the "Especially Tony Abbott."  ;D
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Judge Roughneck on February 09, 2013, 08:53:29 AM
Just goes to show that guns don't kill people.



At about the same time as sandy hook almost the exactly same thing happened in china.

No children however died.

The nut case was armed with a knife, not a gun
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Ruanaidh on February 16, 2013, 02:34:54 PM
The "Right to bear arms" was ratified in the 2nd amendment in order  to provide (among others): the citizens of the US with a means to deter "Tyranical Government". In order to achieve this aim, if need ever should arise, the weapons must be of a similar design to those use by the military. Superficially, it sounds excessive but history is replete with governments that disarmed the populace prior to adopting tyranny. Hitler and Stalin are just two. The 2nd Amendment was one of the most far-sighted achievements of one of History's great men: Thomas Jefferson. It had it's origin in English Natural Law. 

One day we (or our progeny) may rue the fact that we do not have this right.

This is a balanced view IMO:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWNOiw_XIV8
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Judge Roughneck on February 18, 2013, 03:00:06 PM
Ya so let's give the average yanks nukes drones and aircraft carriers. Realistic
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Chuck17 on February 18, 2013, 04:04:22 PM
There needs to be an intelligence/mental stability clause inserted
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Ruanaidh on February 18, 2013, 05:43:19 PM
Ya so let's give the average yanks nukes drones and aircraft carriers. Realistic
I suspected that this would be a come-back. I think you should be more realistic and less hyperbolic. I am taking about firearms only.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: dwaino on February 18, 2013, 10:11:06 PM
The "Right to bear arms" was ratified in the 2nd amendment in order  to provide (among others): the citizens of the US with a means to deter "Tyranical Government". In order to achieve this aim, if need ever should arise, the weapons must be of a similar design to those use by the military. Superficially, it sounds excessive but history is replete with governments that disarmed the populace prior to adopting tyranny. Hitler and Stalin are just two. The 2nd Amendment was one of the most far-sighted achievements of one of History's great men: Thomas Jefferson. It had it's origin in English Natural Law. 

One day we (or our progeny) may rue the fact that we do not have this right.

This is a balanced view IMO:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWNOiw_XIV8

When I was younger and learning about it in high school, I tended to agree with you there in regards to the 2nd Amendment and it as a measure against tyrannical governments. In regards to blokes like Mussolini, Hitler, and Stalin, they had governments based on ideologies. The idea of disarmament was the try and eradicate the subversive elements and make it easier to quash the minorities that don't subscribe to the state doctrine. Where as the proposed disarmament in the US, just like in Australia, was a knee-jerk reaction to an event. The success of a society comes down to the sum of all its parts. IMO the idea that any modern first world society allows their populace to be armed is just ensuring the populace to be fractured, hinders social development and hamstrings the government by being able to hold them at ransom.

If the 2nd Amendment was worth its weight, then the US citizens should have gone to town and beheaded the state a century ago when the bloated Capitalist rats poked their ugly heads back up and re-introduced central banking.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: tiga on February 19, 2013, 11:36:29 AM
The "Right to bear arms" was ratified in the 2nd amendment in order  to provide (among others): the citizens of the US with a means to deter "Tyranical Government". In order to achieve this aim, if need ever should arise, the weapons must be of a similar design to those use by the military. Superficially, it sounds excessive but history is replete with governments that disarmed the populace prior to adopting tyranny. Hitler and Stalin are just two. The 2nd Amendment was one of the most far-sighted achievements of one of History's great men: Thomas Jefferson. It had it's origin in English Natural Law. 

One day we (or our progeny) may rue the fact that we do not have this right.

This is a balanced view IMO:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWNOiw_XIV8

When I was younger and learning about it in high school, I tended to agree with you there in regards to the 2nd Amendment and it as a measure against tyrannical governments. In regards to blokes like Mussolini, Hitler, and Stalin, they had governments based on ideologies. The idea of disarmament was the try and eradicate the subversive elements and make it easier to quash the minorities that don't subscribe to the state doctrine. Where as the proposed disarmament in the US, just like in Australia, was a knee-jerk reaction to an event. The success of a society comes down to the sum of all its parts. IMO the idea that any modern first world society allows their populace to be armed is just ensuring the populace to be fractured, hinders social development and hamstrings the government by being able to hold them at ransom.

If the 2nd Amendment was worth its weight, then the US citizens should have gone to town and beheaded the state a century ago when the bloated Capitalist rats poked their ugly heads back up and re-introduced central banking.

Agree dwaino, and don't forget that there is also a truckload of money being made by weapons manufacturers and logistics corporations. That is why wars exist these days, its not about geography or opposing political ideologies, they are commercial exercises backed by large logistical corporations like The Carlyle group and Halliburton who have had investors of the likes of Dick Cheney and George W in their organisations. They make money by the actual war and then when all the killing has stopped, they make money rebuilding the infrastructure they had just destroyed and get paid in Texas tea.

As a example, Sierra Leone or Zimbabwe have atrocities occurring that a far worse than anything that Saddam Hussein ever did yet the US Military might does nothing the fix the situation. Why?? Because there is no serious money to be made in Poor countries with no infrastructure and no rich natural resources that they can rape. Oh and of course, they have no Weapons of Mass Destruction either.  :banghead

Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: dwaino on February 19, 2013, 12:44:48 PM
Bang on Tiga. No one needs to be familiar with Zeigeist, Loose Change, or subscribe to fruit loops like Alex Jones to understand that war is business and unless there is money to be made then it just won't happen.

I wonder how long it will be until it goes more Orwellian, where people don't know the 'enemy' and Big Brother changes that 'enemy' on a whim. Oh wait... It's just about like that already.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Ruanaidh on February 19, 2013, 07:44:23 PM
Bang on Tiga. No one needs to be familiar with Zeigeist, Loose Change, or subscribe to fruit loops like Alex Jones to understand that war is business and unless there is money to be made then it just won't happen.

I wonder how long it will be until it goes more Orwellian, where people don't know the 'enemy' and Big Brother changes that 'enemy' on a whim. Oh wait... It's just about like that already.
All wars are fought for resource acquisition. The 'tinder' of war is propaganda. The spark is a catalysing event, always engineered. The fire involves a 'mythic' battle against engineered enemies as in Al 'CIAda'. It's a scam, American citizens are waking up, and the cards are in the air :shh
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: dwaino on February 19, 2013, 08:26:46 PM
Good way to distract idiots from their real, hidden agendas too  :shh

Except there was one bloke who wrote down exactly what he was going to do, including a chapter on how he was doing to fool everyone, and an entire nation still fell for it.  :shh
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: tiga on February 20, 2013, 02:30:21 PM
You could say anything as long as you include "The American people". Clinton did it all the time.

"I have a steaming turd in my hand, and you, The American people know that. I'm going to throw it at you, The American People, and you will love it.

Speech ends with a standing ovation and the singing of the Star Spangled Banner.  ;D
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Ruanaidh on February 27, 2013, 06:14:11 AM
Veteran's in the US are being disarmed by Obama's latest 'signing order', the NDAA. Those that have seen conflict are deemed mentally infirmed and therefore disallowed from owning a firearm.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Tigers of Old on February 27, 2013, 06:43:34 AM
(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/31140155.jpg)

A fair question.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Ruanaidh on March 03, 2013, 05:30:30 PM
Gun myths gone in 5 minutes:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c71_1362237045
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Hellenic Tiger on March 03, 2013, 06:15:34 PM
You could say anything as long as you include "The American people". Clinton did it all the time.

"I have a steaming turd in my hand, and you, The American people know that. I'm going to throw it at you, The American People, and you will love it.

Speech ends with a standing ovation and the singing of the Star Spangled Banner.  ;D

Tiga that is some of your finest work. :ROTFL :lol :rollin :lol :clapping
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Judge Roughneck on March 04, 2013, 01:21:51 AM
Bang on Tiga. No one needs to be familiar with Zeigeist, Loose Change, or subscribe to fruit loops like Alex Jones to understand that war is business and unless there is money to be made then it just won't happen.

I wonder how long it will be until it goes more Orwellian, where people don't know the 'enemy' and Big Brother changes that 'enemy' on a whim. Oh wait... It's just about like that already.

It already is comrade.

Innocent paki kids being kill via 'drones' not in small number.

Very soon the Amer police will use these things domesticl

Orwell = was a prophet
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Ruanaidh on March 04, 2013, 05:07:39 PM
Bang on Tiga. No one needs to be familiar with Zeigeist, Loose Change, or subscribe to fruit loops like Alex Jones to understand that war is business and unless there is money to be made then it just won't happen.

I wonder how long it will be until it goes more Orwellian, where people don't know the 'enemy' and Big Brother changes that 'enemy' on a whim. Oh wait... It's just about like that already.

It already is comrade.

Innocent paki kids being kill via 'drones' not in small number.

Very soon the Amer police will use these things domesticl

Orwell = was a prophet
Very true Bentleigh...I'm staring at my bookcase as I write this and see Gordon Bowker's biography of the great man. He also had courage in spades - physical and intellectual.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Ruanaidh on March 14, 2013, 05:17:46 PM
Fantastic 'virtual' 2nd Amendment speech: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b7d_1363136276
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Judge Roughneck on March 20, 2013, 04:41:03 PM
Julia gillard media laws  :-\
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Ruanaidh on March 22, 2013, 10:35:43 AM
Julia gillard media laws  :-\
And the architect of the bill was the recently retired Nicola 'Ropschitz'.......sorry...Roxon... >:(
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: mightytiges on June 10, 2013, 12:20:31 AM
American (mostly Republican) pollies won't even pass legislation to have background checks and then they wonder why another shooting spree occurs. 

http://www.news.com.au/world-news/three-wounded-in-santa-monica-college-school-shooting/story-fndir2ev-1226660445965
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Judge Roughneck on June 11, 2013, 02:23:19 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program)

 :o
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Judge Roughneck on September 19, 2013, 10:09:53 PM
USA  :clapping

http://www.ijreview.com/2013/06/58736-study-toddlers-kill-more-americans-than-terrorists-in-2013/

Should the Feds put cameras in every house to make sure toddlers aren’t going to kill their playmates? Such absurd questions are raised by a study that says toddlers killed more Americans than terrorists in 2013. :clapping

In the first part of this year, 11 people were killed by children aged three to six years old — more than the four people killed at the Boston Marathon bombing. Here’s the list via Stacie Borrello, and let it be said that each one of these cases is an unfathomably horrific tragedy.

Jan. 10: 6-year-old playmate shoots and kills 4-year-old Trinity Ross, Kansas City, Kan.

Feb. 11: 4-year-old Joshua Johnson shoots and kills himself, Memphis, Tenn.

Feb. 24: 4-year-old Jaiden Pratt dies after shooting himself in the stomach while his father sleeps, Houston.

March 30: 4-year-old Rahquel Carr shot and killed either by 6-year-old brother or another young playmate, Miami.

April 6: Josephine Fanning, 48, shot and killed by 4-year-old boy at a barbecue, Wilson County, Tenn.

April 8: 4-year-old shoots and kills 6-year-old friend Brandon Holt, Toms River, N.J.

April 9: 3-year-old is killed after he finds a pink gun that he thinks is a toy, Greenville, S.C.

April 30: 2-year-old Caroline Sparks killed by her 5-year-old brother with his Cricket “My First Rifle” marketed to kids, Cumberland County, Ky.

May 1: 3-year-old Darrien Nez shoots himself in the face and dies after finding his grandmother’s gun, Yuma, Ariz.

May 7: 3-year-old Jadarrius Speights fatally shoots himself with his uncle’s gun, Tampa, Fla.

June 7: 4-year-old fatally shoots his father, Green Beret Justin Thomas, Prescott Valley, Ariz
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: tiga on September 20, 2013, 12:42:53 PM
USA  :clapping

http://www.ijreview.com/2013/06/58736-study-toddlers-kill-more-americans-than-terrorists-in-2013/

Should the Feds put cameras in every house to make sure toddlers aren’t going to kill their playmates? Such absurd questions are raised by a study that says toddlers killed more Americans than terrorists in 2013.

In the first part of this year, 11 people were killed by children aged three to six years old — more than the four people killed at the Boston Marathon bombing. Here’s the list via Stacie Borrello, and let it be said that each one of these cases is an unfathomably horrific tragedy.

Jan. 10: 6-year-old playmate shoots and kills 4-year-old Trinity Ross, Kansas City, Kan.

Feb. 11: 4-year-old Joshua Johnson shoots and kills himself, Memphis, Tenn.

Feb. 24: 4-year-old Jaiden Pratt dies after shooting himself in the stomach while his father sleeps, Houston.

March 30: 4-year-old Rahquel Carr shot and killed either by 6-year-old brother or another young playmate, Miami.

April 6: Josephine Fanning, 48, shot and killed by 4-year-old boy at a barbecue, Wilson County, Tenn.

April 8: 4-year-old shoots and kills 6-year-old friend Brandon Holt, Toms River, N.J.

April 9: 3-year-old is killed after he finds a pink gun that he thinks is a toy, Greenville, S.C.

April 30: 2-year-old Caroline Sparks killed by her 5-year-old brother with his Cricket “My First Rifle” marketed to kids, Cumberland County, Ky.

May 1: 3-year-old Darrien Nez shoots himself in the face and dies after finding his grandmother’s gun, Yuma, Ariz.

May 7: 3-year-old Jadarrius Speights fatally shoots himself with his uncle’s gun, Tampa, Fla.

June 7: 4-year-old fatally shoots his father, Green Beret Justin Thomas, Prescott Valley, Ariz

That is one very sad list. Haven't these idiot parents heard of Gun Safes?
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Judge Roughneck on November 05, 2013, 08:05:37 PM
More shootings  :sleep

http://rt.com/usa/new-jersey-mall-shooting-218/

its not the guns fault but people fault. the only way to fix this is more guns IMO

Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: tigs2011 on November 06, 2013, 01:06:44 AM
 :lol more guns. The answer to all lifes problems.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Francois Hackson on November 06, 2013, 06:41:39 AM
Can someone explain as I don't have a clue why they persist with no gun laws in the US

Maybe they will start to learn if one if their family members get shot and killed

Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: WilliamPowell on November 06, 2013, 07:08:29 AM
Can someone explain as I don't have a clue why they persist with no gun laws in the US

Maybe they will start to learn if one if their family members get shot and killed

All about their constitution Angus, a thing they cherish as they believe it defines their "freedom", it gives them the right to bear arms and no one over there has the guts to challenge it let alone change it
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: eliminator on November 06, 2013, 07:30:20 AM
Can someone explain as I don't have a clue why they persist with no gun laws in the US

Maybe they will start to learn if one if their family members get shot and killed

All about their constitution Angus, a thing they cherish as they believe it defines their "freedom", it gives them the right to bear arms and no one over there has the guts to challenge it let alone change it

It is all to do with interpretation of the phrase bear arms. I don't believe it is true but there was discussion that the phrase originally referred to the right to bear a coat of arms
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: dwaino on November 06, 2013, 07:32:03 AM
The original reason was to protect themselves from corrupt government. Now they interpret disarmament as a threat and a reason to bare more arms.

Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Judge Roughneck on November 06, 2013, 09:47:45 AM
Can someone explain as I don't have a clue why they persist with no gun laws in the US

Maybe they will start to learn if one if their family members get shot and killed

All about their constitution Angus, a thing they cherish as they believe it defines their "freedom", it gives them the right to bear arms and no one over there has the guts to challenge it let alone change it

It is all to do with interpretation of the phrase bear arms. I don't believe it is true but there was discussion that the phrase originally referred to the right to bear a coat of arms

If it was COAT of arms... that's hilarious in hindsite
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: tiga on November 06, 2013, 12:38:31 PM
I thought that the term "Right to Bear Arms" was actually a printing error and it was supposed to read "Right to Arm Bears" after they had so many casualties after the War of American Independence.

Maybe Bent's was the stenographer.  ;D
Actually come to think of it. If Bent's and His Samsung were anywhere near it it would have said "Rightto ban Armies with Yoga"  ;D
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Chuck17 on November 06, 2013, 04:07:56 PM
 :lol
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: tigs2011 on November 07, 2013, 01:56:43 AM
I thought that the term "Right to Bear Arms" was actually a printing error and it was supposed to read "Right to Arm Bears" after they had so many casualties after the War of American Independence.

Maybe Bent's was the stenographer.  ;D
Actually come to think of it. If Bent's and His Samsung were anywhere near it it would have said "Rightto ban Armies with Yoga"  ;D
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :clapping :clapping :clapping :clapping :clapping :clapping :clapping :clapping :clapping :bow :bow :bow :bow :bow :bow :bow :bow :bow :bow :cheers :cheers :cheers :cheers :cheers :cheers
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Judge Roughneck on December 20, 2013, 02:49:25 AM
http://www.pslweb.org/liberationnews/news/texas-campus-cop-kills.html
 :clapping
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Penelope on December 23, 2013, 08:50:43 AM
i once read that more innocent people, that is those not involved in criminal activity at the time, are shot by police, than registered gun owners in the US.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Smokey on December 23, 2013, 09:54:26 AM
I wouldn't be surprised.   :help
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: tiga on August 28, 2014, 02:54:14 PM
Who gives a 9 Year old girl an Uzi and then stands right next to her whilst she fires it on full auto......
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: (•))(©™ on August 28, 2014, 03:01:06 PM
Can someone explain as I don't have a clue why they persist with no gun laws in the US

Maybe they will start to learn if one if their family members get shot and killed

It's about population control and regulation.

The good ol' US of A is simply a used car lot with used car salesmen running it.

They need to accept that the experiment has failed.

If not for Blacks and Jews, they'd have contributed nothing to the arts either, something the nation prides itself on.

If one good thing can come out of there, it's the lesson this country should heed to - whatever they've done, do the opposite.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: tiga on August 28, 2014, 03:36:44 PM
Can someone explain as I don't have a clue why they persist with no gun laws in the US

Maybe they will start to learn if one if their family members get shot and killed


If not for Blacks and Jews, they'd have contributed nothing to the arts either, something the nation prides itself on.



Even Justin Bieber is Canadian....  ;D
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Loui Tufga on August 28, 2014, 03:54:42 PM
Can someone explain as I don't have a clue why they persist with no gun laws in the US

Maybe they will start to learn if one if their family members get shot and killed

It's fair to say that gun laws don't actually work anyway.
Whilst Australia may not have had a mass shooting since the introduction gun laws it certainly hasn't stopped the trade of illegal weapons and certainly hasn't stopped criminals from getting hold of firearms.
NSW is sitting on an all time high of gun related violence and yet they keep introducing new laws that only seem to affect "Law abiding Shooters" criminals and gangs don't give a rats fat about gun laws and have access to basically any thing they want. Gun laws in the US would do jack poo, it's as simple as that.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Judge Roughneck on August 28, 2014, 06:22:56 PM
As we speak the us is making it illegal for citizens to own body armour via law.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: tiga on August 28, 2014, 09:17:32 PM
Can someone explain as I don't have a clue why they persist with no gun laws in the US

Maybe they will start to learn if one if their family members get shot and killed

It's fair to say that gun laws don't actually work anyway.
Whilst Australia may not have had a mass shooting since the introduction gun laws it certainly hasn't stopped the trade of illegal weapons and certainly hasn't stopped criminals from getting hold of firearms.
NSW is sitting on an all time high of gun related violence and yet they keep introducing new laws that only seem to affect "Law abiding Shooters" criminals and gangs don't give a rats fat about gun laws and have access to basically any thing they want. Gun laws in the US would do jack poo, it's as simple as that.
Where in Australia can a 9 year old grab a burger and shoot an Uzi??? Gun laws aren't just about stopping criminals access to guns, they also stop the easy access to weapons from legitimate sources. The burger joint where the girl accidentally shot and killed the instructor does not check for credentials or breath test anyone before handing over an Uzi.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Loui Tufga on August 28, 2014, 10:39:47 PM
Sorry Tiga I should clarify, I totally agree that there could be better access restrictions and storage regulations to start with, that's a no brainer!
There is certainly no where in Australia where a 9yo could fire an Uzi but you would be very surprised how many 9 year olds and younger that are out there shooting week in week out under full supervision. (Incident free I may add)

It's the more broader Gun laws that were forced upon us that I'm referring to, the registration of firearms (which has been completely abused) The restrictions on the amount of firearms one can own and ammunition restrictions just simply doesn't work, neither will trying to disarm a country that is already armed to the eyeballs!!

Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: mightytiges on October 03, 2015, 05:03:00 AM
The Oregon gunman who carried out an execution-style massacre at a U.S. college classroom had a cache of 13 weapons, body armor and ammunition, authorities said on Friday, as they sought a motive for the worst U.S. mass shooting this year.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/02/us-usa-shooting-oregon-idUSKCN0RV5EP20151002

The Oregon slaughter of 10 people brings the total of mass shootings in the US this year - in which four or more people are killed or injured by gunfire - to 294. There have been only 274 days this year.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/oregon-shooting-274-days-and-294-mass-shootings-in-us-this-year-20151001-gjzl9c.html#ixzz3nRFPKGun








Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Francois Hackson on October 03, 2015, 07:42:19 AM
Why is it so difficult to change an outdated constitution?

Seriously how can some association have so much say in gun control.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: WilliamPowell on October 03, 2015, 08:41:43 AM
Why is it so difficult to change an outdated constitution?

Seriously how can some association have so much say in gun control.

Just like our constitution most changes would require a vote by the people, over there changes just don't go through, like here (eg becoming a republic).

Over there they will not give up one right that their constitution offords them, especially the right to bare arms

As to what power congress etc have is a mute point as none of them are prepared to take the gun lobbies on. Because like over here pollies want to keep their jobs, it's all about being a position of power and not losing it

And on your final point well that is again like here it's all about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and how much they give to get people elected 

Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: 🏅Dooks on October 03, 2015, 12:09:42 PM

The Oregon slaughter of 10 people brings the total of mass shootings in the US this year - in which four or more people are killed or injured by gunfire - to 294. There have been only 274 days this year.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/oregon-shooting-274-days-and-294-mass-shootings-in-us-this-year-20151001-gjzl9c.html#ixzz3nRFPKGun

At that rate, 91 days left in the year and at least another 91 Americans are soon dead but don't know it yet, Women, Men, children. Unwilling to stop it through the political system. Idiots

thank god for gun laws in Australia.

Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Penelope on October 03, 2015, 12:12:06 PM
Once again we get the knee jerk reaction of blaming the guns rather than the people.

As usual no one asks "why?"

For instance, why is it that Switzerland has a gun ownership rate not too far behind the US (largely military weapons to boot) yet has a gun related homicide approx 10% of that of the US.

Surely if the problem was simply access to weapons, then Switzerland's gun related homicide rate would be on par that of the US?

also, FWIW there have been 354 people killed by police in the US this year.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: 🏅Dooks on October 03, 2015, 12:22:16 PM
Once again we get the knee jerk reaction of blaming the guns rather than the people.

As usual no one asks "why?"

For instance, why is it that Switzerland has a gun ownership rate not too far behind the US (largely military weapons to boot) yet has a gun related homicide approx 10% of that of the US.

Surely if the problem was simply access to weapons, then Switzerland's gun related homicide rate would be on par that of the US?

also, FWIW there have been 354 people killed by police in the US this year.

Not really 'too far behind'.

The USA has 88 guns per 100 persons whilst Switzerland has 45 per 100 persons. And that's only registered firearms. The black market in the US means you can at least double that figure.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country

yes its not just the number of guns it's also attitudes but the access to firearms for nutters in the US is like access to malt liquor for alcoholics.


Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Gigantor on October 03, 2015, 12:31:17 PM
Isnt the republican convention on the horizon?..Doubt any of the candidates will want to take on the gun lobby prior to that
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: WilliamPowell on October 03, 2015, 01:12:05 PM
Isnt the republican convention on the horizon?..Doubt any of the candidates will want to take on the gun lobby prior to that

Exactly

Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Yeahright on October 04, 2015, 05:57:01 PM
Once again we get the knee jerk reaction of blaming the guns rather than the people.

As usual no one asks "why?"

For instance, why is it that Switzerland has a gun ownership rate not too far behind the US (largely military weapons to boot) yet has a gun related homicide approx 10% of that of the US.

Surely if the problem was simply access to weapons, then Switzerland's gun related homicide rate would be on par that of the US?

also, FWIW there have been 354 people killed by police in the US this year.

As Dooks said, Switz is still a fair way behind. If you don't include their military weapons that its something like 27 per 100. Also cutting off the thing that allows these people to cause mass murder in a matter of minutes is a lot quicker and more likely to have an effect. Yeah some people might still go and illegally get one, or use home made weapons etc. but a good start would be to take away how easy it is for them to get access to these weapons

Take away the guns, then work on the people.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Diocletian on October 04, 2015, 06:03:28 PM
Ted Nugent for President!
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Penelope on October 04, 2015, 06:22:28 PM
Once again we get the knee jerk reaction of blaming the guns rather than the people.

As usual no one asks "why?"

For instance, why is it that Switzerland has a gun ownership rate not too far behind the US (largely military weapons to boot) yet has a gun related homicide approx 10% of that of the US.

Surely if the problem was simply access to weapons, then Switzerland's gun related homicide rate would be on par that of the US?

also, FWIW there have been 354 people killed by police in the US this year.

As Dooks said, Switz is still a fair way behind. If you don't include their military weapons that its something like 27 per 100. Also cutting off the thing that allows these people to cause mass murder in a matter of minutes is a lot quicker and more likely to have an effect. Yeah some people might still go and illegally get one, or use home made weapons etc. but a good start would be to take away how easy it is for them to get access to these weapons

Take away the guns, then work on the people.
why not include the military weapons? guns are guns
the illegal guns are a furphy because they are , well illegal, already outside the law. changing the law does not change this.

so the yanks have gun ownership rate just under double that of the swiss yet a gun related homicide rate of ten times the swiss.

yeah, sure the problem is the guns
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: 🏅Dooks on October 04, 2015, 06:57:23 PM
Once again we get the knee jerk reaction of blaming the guns rather than the people.

As usual no one asks "why?"

For instance, why is it that Switzerland has a gun ownership rate not too far behind the US (largely military weapons to boot) yet has a gun related homicide approx 10% of that of the US.

Surely if the problem was simply access to weapons, then Switzerland's gun related homicide rate would be on par that of the US?

also, FWIW there have been 354 people killed by police in the US this year.

As Dooks said, Switz is still a fair way behind. If you don't include their military weapons that its something like 27 per 100. Also cutting off the thing that allows these people to cause mass murder in a matter of minutes is a lot quicker and more likely to have an effect. Yeah some people might still go and illegally get one, or use home made weapons etc. but a good start would be to take away how easy it is for them to get access to these weapons

Take away the guns, then work on the people.
why not include the military weapons? guns are guns
the illegal guns are a furphy because they are , well illegal, already outside the law. changing the law does not change this.

so the yanks have gun ownership rate just under double that of the swiss yet a gun related homicide rate of ten times the swiss.

yeah, sure the problem is the guns

You've chosen Switzerland as an example because the murder to gun ownership rate is the exception to the rule.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Penelope on October 04, 2015, 07:45:16 PM
who wrote the rules?
just love it when when people choose to ignore evidence that doesnt fit in with their views.

maybe, just maybe, there is something about the swiss culture we could learn from rather than blindly following the yanks and passively accepting the way their culture is taking over our own?
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Yeahright on October 04, 2015, 07:46:55 PM
Once again we get the knee jerk reaction of blaming the guns rather than the people.

As usual no one asks "why?"

For instance, why is it that Switzerland has a gun ownership rate not too far behind the US (largely military weapons to boot) yet has a gun related homicide approx 10% of that of the US.

Surely if the problem was simply access to weapons, then Switzerland's gun related homicide rate would be on par that of the US?

also, FWIW there have been 354 people killed by police in the US this year.

As Dooks said, Switz is still a fair way behind. If you don't include their military weapons that its something like 27 per 100. Also cutting off the thing that allows these people to cause mass murder in a matter of minutes is a lot quicker and more likely to have an effect. Yeah some people might still go and illegally get one, or use home made weapons etc. but a good start would be to take away how easy it is for them to get access to these weapons

Take away the guns, then work on the people.
why not include the military weapons? guns are guns
the illegal guns are a furphy because they are , well illegal, already outside the law. changing the law does not change this.

so the yanks have gun ownership rate just under double that of the swiss yet a gun related homicide rate of ten times the swiss.

yeah, sure the problem is the guns

Include them if you want, I don't care. Was more of a side bar. One would think changing the law would increase the amount of illegal guns would it not?

So what would your solution be? Let everyone keep there guns but hope to change the mindset of these sociopaths? Or what else because you give the impression that you don't think taking away the guns would do anything.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Penelope on October 04, 2015, 07:53:17 PM
i think that changing the gun laws does not address the root cause of the problem.

I am not claiming i know what the root cause is, (therefore I dont know what the solution is) but i do know that changing laws is only a superficial, band aid solution.

Has prohibition ever solved any problem?
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Yeahright on October 04, 2015, 08:16:34 PM
i think that changing the gun laws does not address the root cause of the problem.

I am not claiming i know what the root cause is, (therefore I dont know what the solution is) but i do know that changing laws is only a superficial, band aid solution.

Has prohibition ever solved any problem?

I agree with pretty much all that but I am not sure how that could lead to the conclusion that tightening the gun laws is a poor solution. Surely any decrease in unnessary deaths is a good thing, no matter how superficial the solution was.

I don't know, you tell me?
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Penelope on October 04, 2015, 08:31:40 PM
beacuse i dont believe that gun control actually leads to less deaths.
there is a caveat to this though.

i dont think that guns should be sold to any one without any checks and balances, there needs to be some sensability to this. The cooling off period we have in this country is a good measure, for instance.

but if you look through this data, looking at all of it, you will see that there is no correlation between rate of gun ownership and gun related homicide.
http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list

The root of the problem lies elsewhere.

If the data showed a direct correlation between gun ownership and and gun related homicide then i would be all for  actively reducing gun ownership rates.

Unfortunately the solution is not that simple, and while the debate rages about gun control, no one is asking the right questions, therefore not coming up with the right answers.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Stalin on October 07, 2015, 10:18:59 AM
 :whistle




(http://i.imgur.com/wzJgu87.jpg)
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Dougeytherichmondfan on October 11, 2015, 09:22:26 AM
As much as I agree with the sentiment of Gun control measures not being a strongest preventative measure, its still A preventative measure.

Only 3% of homicides in the US are a result of registered weapons. THAT'S STILL PEOPLES LIVES YOUR SAVING! Its not a policy based on opportunity cost, i.e if we change the rules to THIS instead of THAT then these people get more but these get less. Its black and white kids, introduce tougher gun ownership laws and you save SOME lives, not all, its not the root of the problem, but it still stops some people from being horribly murdered.

If anyone has seen 'Bowling for Columbine', Michael Moore suggests that the gun loving culture stems from a 'fear of the black man' and the ubiquity of guns sit in society. In movies for example, guns are often the strongest solution to any problems. Zombie movies are so popular because, with Zombies, all you have to do is shoot your problems away. Hero's require guns to be heroic.

Whilst I agree we absorb so much of american culture, there's still a massive cultural shock when you go to the states and walk passed every shop and some security bloke is standing there with a gleaming 12 gauge.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Penelope on October 11, 2015, 07:07:08 PM
michael moore is a puppet.

Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Dougeytherichmondfan on October 16, 2015, 10:45:38 PM
michael moore is a puppet.
So is Kermit the Frog. They still make very good points. Although Im still yet to actually find the rainbow connection.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Penelope on October 16, 2015, 10:49:24 PM
but the points they make are on behalf of someone with a hand up their arse
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Diocletian on October 16, 2015, 11:06:07 PM
Dougey & Bent Judge Joe....

(http://science.taskermilward.org.uk/mod1/Year%207/Mod2/beaker.jpg)
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Loui Tufga on October 16, 2015, 11:10:12 PM
As much as I agree with the sentiment of Gun control measures not being a strongest preventative measure, its still A preventative measure.

Only 3% of homicides in the US are a result of registered weapons. THAT'S STILL PEOPLES LIVES YOUR SAVING! Its not a policy based on opportunity cost, i.e if we change the rules to THIS instead of THAT then these people get more but these get less. Its black and white kids, introduce tougher gun ownership laws and you save SOME lives, not all, its not the root of the problem, but it still stops some people from being horribly murdered.

Ok why should gun owners be discriminated against?
Why not go the whole hog here and start saving SOME lives in other areas, here are a few ideas that will save more than 3% of lives in other pastimes that are un gun related yet kill plenty of people each year.

1) Reduce the national speed limit to 80kph on open roads and 40kph in suburbia.
2)Make it mandatory to wear life jackets at all times while boating on any waterway.
3)Make it illegal to use a ladder around the home.
4)Remove cyclists from public roads.
5)Restrict the sale of alcohol to one hour a day.

All of the above ideas will save 3% or more deaths or deaths related to the above activists.
The list doesn't stop there there are 1000 other restrictions we can put on thousands of other activitys to save a few lives so please explain to me why should firearm owners be discriminated against? After all it is legal in Australia just like it is to own a car, drive a boat, climb a ladder and walk into a pub nearly anytime of the day and drink yourself stupid.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Yeahright on October 17, 2015, 02:24:07 AM
You realise legit gun owners can still keep there guns? Oh and the fact none of them are the direct cause of mass killings
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Dougeytherichmondfan on October 17, 2015, 04:08:56 PM
You realise legit gun owners can still keep there guns? Oh and the fact none of them are the direct cause of mass killings
Its still a legally registered weapon when you walk into a shop and purchase a weapon on the same day.

I believe its a requirement that you're a member of a gun-club for 6 months before you're allowed to own a pistol in Australia. High powered firearms are either illegal or require very stringent background checks and applications.

Guns are weapons, intended for killing. Cars, ladders and all that other crap that was mentioned are not.

My point was simply that increased gun-control measures will save a few lives. Just a few, but there's no opportunity cost. So why not?
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Yeahright on October 17, 2015, 04:48:15 PM
You realise legit gun owners can still keep there guns? Oh and the fact none of them are the direct cause of mass killings
Its still a legally registered weapon when you walk into a shop and purchase a weapon on the same day.

I believe its a requirement that you're a member of a gun-club for 6 months before you're allowed to own a pistol in Australia. High powered firearms are either illegal or require very stringent background checks and applications.

Guns are weapons, intended for killing. Cars, ladders and all that other crap that was mentioned are not.

My point was simply that increased gun-control measures will save a few lives. Just a few, but there's no opportunity cost. So why not?

I was replying to TFT. I agree with you on this.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Loui Tufga on October 17, 2015, 10:19:22 PM
Guns are weapons, intended for killing. Cars, ladders and all that other crap that was mentioned are not.

Yet nationally thousands more people are killed each year from motor vehicles than are with guns but your happy to save few lives from guns over thousands of lives from vehicle accidents??
Are you saying people who are shot with guns are more important than people who die in motor vehicle accidents??

Guns are weapons, intended for killing.

So are knives, should we be registering and restricting access these as well?
my point being where does it end??

I believe its a requirement that you're a member of a gun-club for 6 months before you're allowed to own a pistol in Australia.

Close, you have to be a member of a pistol club for minimum of 6 month before you can apply for a provisional licence which has to be served for no less than a further 6 months and no longer than 12 months before you can apply for a full licence which is required to purchase a handgun.

High powered firearms are either illegal or require very stringent background checks and applications.

High Powered Firearms! Wow that sounds super scary!! I'd be interested to hear what your definition of a High Powered Firearm is and why Very Stringent Background Checks should be required??

My point was simply that increased gun-control measures will save a few lives. Just a few, but there's no opportunity cost. So why not?

So Why Not you ask?? Why not because the current gun control measures we already have in place don't work, so how is increasing them going to help??
Again increasing gun control simply impacts and discriminates against 400,000 law abiding licenced firearm owners in Australia and has no impact what so ever on those wishing to use firearms for crime!
To put it into some perspective for you I'll use car enthusiasts as an example......

Say there is suddenly a spate of bank robbery's and the robbers are using cars with High Powered V8 engines to make there get away. During many of the pursuits many pedestrians are mowed down and killed and the police are at a loss as what to do because the cars the criminals are using are to fast to catch.
So they come up with a kneejerk reaction and place a whole bunch of new laws for people to own cars with High Powered V8 engines.

Firstly they deem any vehicle over 6 liters is way to fast and way to powerful so these cars will be banned completely.
They then offer a car buy back system for those who own this now completely illegal car, payment is given on a pre determined value and the ancestral history and heritage of the car has nothing to do with the price determined. You will be required hand your vehicle in to the local police station within 4 weeks of the new ban being announced.

Then you will need to apply for the new High Powered Motor Vehicle licence.
This will include applying to do the two day High Powered motor vehicle safety course which is only run a couple of times a month and may be booked out for several months in advance.
Upon completion of the course you'll need to fill out the 6 page licence application, have it signed and witnessed by a J.P then submit it with your High Powered motor vehicle safety course certificate (If you Passed). You have already been told at the course that the police wont even look at it until the 30 day cooling off period has expired and even then it may take 1 to 2 weeks before you find out you application was successful.

Now you have your licence its time to get your vehicle re registered but first you have to make sure it complies with the new Restrictions that are now being applied to All High Powered Vehicles under 6 liters. 

Firstly the cars standard fuel tank will have to be modified from the original 60 liters to a maximum of ten liters. This will make sure if anyone wants to try and out run the police again they wont get far before having to stop and refuel.
The car must be safely stored in a locked garage with the fuel tank empty at all times, fuel must not be stored in the same room as the vehicle and will need to kept in an additional locked container separately from the Vehicle. You will also be at the mercy of random police inspections where the police can rock up unannounced anytime day or night to make sure you are complying with the full storage rules. Any breach of the rule will see your car confiscated and your High Powered Motor Vehicle licence being revoked, you will also face criminal charges for not complying laws.

The car has now been modified with the new restrictions to make it legal again, its been re registered and now the registration falls under the High Powered motor vehicle category.
A category that sits on a separate database at your states police center, a data base that not only shows your car but the cars of 100,000 other High Powered Motor vehicle licence holders all with there independent storage addresses and owners details.

So what happens next?? The spate of Bank robbery's automatically stop right? Well they should, all the High powered cars are now accounted for, the ones that are no longer on the roads have been handed in and have been destroyed. Suddenly the all the nations bank tellers can feel safe going to work, the pedestrians can safely cross the street again without out the fear of being run down by a High Powered Motor Vehicle!
O.k so the motor vehicle enthusiast who only really had his car to do a little Sunday touring or was only hanging onto it because it was his grandfathers pride and joy has only been slightly put out, financially its only cost him around 5k all up to do the course, pay for his licence, have the garage upgraded to meet storage standards and to sort the slight modifications out on his Vehicle but that's ok because at the end of the day at least he got to keep it right!

Well the Bank robbery's do stop for a while but suddenly they start back up again as if nothing ever happened, this also happens to coincide with Customs busting open a couple of container loads of supercharged 8 liter engines that didn't slip through the net and a spate of High Powered car thefts from not random property's but from area clusters all being hit within in days of each other as if someone some how new exactly the types of cars and exactly where all these cars are being stored! Its not as if though all this information has been compiled and put together on a single database, hang on.....The police data base is complete hack proof right? and there is absolutely no such thing as police corruption in this day and age!!

Sooooo My point being you can put all the restrictions in the world on anything you like but unfortunately it will never stop those who wish to disobey the laws, it only hurts the law abiding citizens who jump through the hoops and go through all the red tape to make sure its not because of them that they lose the one thing in life they love doing. 




 
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Penelope on October 17, 2015, 11:05:40 PM
there is no restrictions on the calibre ( or power for the uneducated) of rifles anyway.

the restrictions are on semi automatic rifles and pump action shotguns.

pointless really.

pump action rifles are still legal. with a higher powered rifle, you can have another cartridge in the breech by the time you have bought the gun back into position after the recoil. practice enough and you are pretty close with a bolt action.

I was talking to a bloke who guides for safari hunting the other day. he uses a double barrelled rifle for back up for his clients.

He said how such a rifle was no good for most shooters as they didnt have to organise themselves for their second shot, unlike a bolt action rifle. The tendency was to fire the next shot willy nilly particularly under stress; a bolt action forces you to go through a process, and therefore more likely to be more efficient with multiple shots

It was something i had never considered, and a semi auto would be the same. This conversation was not about gun control (of the legal type, anyway) in any way at all, just a general conversation re guns and hunting.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Yeahright on October 18, 2015, 01:29:20 AM
I thought this was about Americans?
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Penelope on October 18, 2015, 09:19:24 AM
gun control is probably the subject at the heart of the matter, though.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Loui Tufga on October 18, 2015, 09:45:32 AM
I thought this was about Americans?

Dougeys lack of knowage in this area seems to be confusing things a little.
From what a can work out Dougey is saying That by introducing a gun register in the States it will stop people mudering each other.
The point I'm trying to make is Australia has the toughest gun laws in the word yet gun related crime is still on the increase in this country.
Registering firearms is not the answer as Canada just worked out when they recently abolished there registry that had been in place since 1998 because I quote “We simply don’t need another very expensive and not-effective registry,”.
http://m.thestar.com/#/article/news/canada/2015/03/27/ottawa-can-destroy-quebec-gun-registry-high-court-says.html

The answer is not punishing those who are doing the right thing which is exactly what a gun register does but there is plenty of merrit in hitting hard those who choose to do the wrong thing by increasing punishment for those wish to flaunt the law.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Dougeytherichmondfan on October 18, 2015, 10:58:14 AM
I thought this was about Americans?

Dougeys lack of knowage in this area seems to be confusing things a little.
From what a can work out Dougey is saying That by introducing a gun register in the States it will stop people mudering each other.
The point I'm trying to make is Australia has the toughest gun laws in the word yet gun related crime is still on the increase in this country.
Registering firearms is not the answer as Canada just worked out when they recently abolished there registry that had been in place since 1998 because I quote “We simply don’t need another very expensive and not-effective registry,”.
http://m.thestar.com/#/article/news/canada/2015/03/27/ottawa-can-destroy-quebec-gun-registry-high-court-says.html

The answer is not punishing those who are doing the right thing which is exactly what a gun register does but there is plenty of merrit in hitting hard those who choose to do the wrong thing by increasing punishment for those wish to flaunt the law.
No pal, I've stated all along that it won't have a large impact on reducing homicide. My point is that if you introduce a stricter gun register and purchase process SOME PEOPLE, A SMALL AMOUNT OF PEOPLE ARE NOT KILLED!!!!!! And for what price? NOTHING! Where is the opportunity cost? So why not do it?

I think you're missing the point here toting the "I'm a law abiding citizen so why punish me" line that makes me want to throw up.

Knives are NOT used solely for the purpose of ending another beings life. Cars are NOT used solely for this purpose. Ladders arn't either.

stuffING GUNS ARE!!!

What demented line of crap are you trumpeting that stands to decirn that any human being has the 'right and entitlement' to carry a weapon that can kill a fellow human being? That's the argument that you're putting forward.

The only reason we have to legalise this process is simply to prevent the black market from totally controlling the gun markets and strengthening criminal cartels. Not like the yanks haven't tried this before (re: Prohibition in the 20's).

As for that last totally misguided and under researched statement, any criminologist anywhere at any point EVER will state categorically that increases of punishments to crimes that essentially target poorer, working class sections of society prove only to increase penal pressures and stress our completely outdated penal systems anyway, but completely fail in deterring the crimes from actually being committed. After all, its poor people shooting other poor people so who gives a shyte?
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Loui Tufga on October 18, 2015, 12:11:24 PM
I thought this was about Americans?

Dougeys lack of knowage in this area seems to be confusing things a little.
From what a can work out Dougey is saying That by introducing a gun register in the States it will stop people mudering each other.
The point I'm trying to make is Australia has the toughest gun laws in the word yet gun related crime is still on the increase in this country.
Registering firearms is not the answer as Canada just worked out when they recently abolished there registry that had been in place since 1998 because I quote “We simply don’t need another very expensive and not-effective registry,”.
http://m.thestar.com/#/article/news/canada/2015/03/27/ottawa-can-destroy-quebec-gun-registry-high-court-says.html

The answer is not punishing those who are doing the right thing which is exactly what a gun register does but there is plenty of merrit in hitting hard those who choose to do the wrong thing by increasing punishment for those wish to flaunt the law.

Knives are NOT used solely for the purpose of ending another beings life. Cars are NOT used solely for this purpose. Ladders arn't either.

stuffING GUNS ARE!!!



This is where you have it compleatly wrong and if you think guns are soley used to end another beings life then it just goes to show how miss guided your are on this subject.
The above statement is meadia propeganda at its finest.
If the above statement is the case then wouldn't you think that guns would be compleatly banned? Oh that's right, we can't compkeatly ban them because God forbid we let the black market have compleat control  :lol
Don't you realize that the black market already have compleat control of ILLEGAL firearms in this country? The same illegal firearms that was easily obtained and used by Man Monis who was not only on the terrorist watch list but was also out on bail!
The same illegal firearms that was easialy obtained by a 12 year old boy and used to shot a police worker at a Sydney police station.
The same illegal Macine gun that was used to for 20 odd rounds in to cars and a house in a quiet suburban street this week.
Do you see's pattern forming here??

Meanwhile Joeblogs up the road who used to enjoy heading to his local gun club on a Sunday to fire a few rounds at clay targets (shock horror! There is another purpose for a gun other than killing :o) hast to jump through all the hoops and red tape to do somthing he has done all his life all because of minority few.

You keep going on about cars arnt designed to kill people yet you keep looking past the point that they do and not just one or two people but thousands! Thousands more than guns do. While cars were never designed to kill people there is a point that car does become a weapon! The minute you choose to exceed the speed limit the car becomes a weapon, the minute you get behind the wheel with a blood alcahol reading above .05 the car becomes a weapon, the minute you get behind the wheel as high as a kite the car becomes a weapon. Again I ask is a persons life that is taken with a firearm more important than slide taken with a motor vehicle?
I wouldn't have thought so yet your argument is to try to save a few lives from firearm deaths because firearms are an easy target, because the word gun scares the hell out of everyone because the misinformed and uneducated are led to believe that the only use for a gun is to kill somthing (please read you quote above) if you want to believe this then that's your right but believing that is basically saying that the 400,000 licensed gun owners in Australia only own a gun because they have the intention to kill someone? Does that realy sound right to you??
It doesn't sound right because it's not right, facts are guns are used for many things other than killing people just like knives ;)

And lastly I say guns are an easy target because they are, you clearly arnt a gun owner and judging by your comments you have never been around a gun in you life so for you it's easy to say "let's putmore restrictions on firearms" or "let's just ban them all together" it doesn't affect you, you haven't hand will never have an affiliation witha firearm so why would you be bothered by further restrictions??

Lets put the shoe on the other foot and again I'm going to use Motor vehicles as an analogy if the road toll was to suddenly spike and the main reason for this was speed how would you feel if the government suddenly cut the speed limit to 60 on open roads and 25 in suburban streets?
Would you feel vindicated that you have to adhere to these new laws even though you have a squeaky clean record and have never speed in you life? And further more do you think these new laws will stop people from speeding?
How would that impact on you personally?
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Stalin on October 18, 2015, 03:42:29 PM
guns are important

t0 protect one self from police state
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Stalin on October 22, 2015, 11:38:11 AM
case-in-point

Quote
Dystopian truth is stranger than dystopian fiction.

In New York City, the police now maintain an unknown number of military-grade vans outfitted with X-ray radiation, enabling cops to look through the walls of buildings or the sides of trucks. The technology was used in Afghanistan before being loosed on U.S. streets. Each X-ray van costs an estimated $729,000 to $825,000.

The NYPD will not reveal when, where, or how often they are used.

“I will not talk about anything at all about this,” New York Police Commissioner Bill Bratton told a journalist for the New York Post who pressed for details on the vans. “It falls into the range of security and counter-terrorism activity that we engage in.”

He added that “they’re not used to scan people for weapons.”

Here are some specific questions that New York City refuses to answer:

How is the NYPD ensuring that innocent New Yorkers are not subject to harmful X-ray radiation?
How long is the NYPD keeping the images that it takes and who can look at them?
Is the NYPD obtaining judicial authorization prior to taking images, and if so, what type of authorization?
Is the technology funded by taxpayer money, and has the use of the vans justified the price tag?
Those specifics are taken from a New York Civil Liberties Union court filing. The legal organization is seeking to assist a lawsuit filed by Pro Publica journalist Michael Grabell, who has been fighting New York City for answers about X-ray vans for 3 years.

“ProPublica filed the request as part of its investigation into the proliferation of security equipment, including airport body scanners, that expose people to ionizing radiation, which can mutate DNA and increase the risk of cancer,” he explained. (For fear of a terrorist “dirty bomb,” America’s security apparatus is exposing its population to radiation as a matter of course.)

A state court has already ruled that the NYPD has to turn over policies, procedures, and training manuals that shape uses of X-rays; reports on past deployments; information on the costs of the X-ray devices and the number of vans purchased; and information on the health and safety effects of the technology. But New York City is fighting on appeal to suppress that information and more, as if it is some kind of spy agency rather than a municipal police department operating on domestic soil, ostensibly at the pleasure of city residents.

Its insistence on extreme secrecy is part of an alarming trend. The people of New York City are effectively being denied the ability to decide how they want to be policed.

“Technologies––from x-ray scanners to drones, automatic license plate readers that record license plates of cars passing by, and ‘Stingrays’ that spy on nearby cell phones by imitating cell phone towers—have brought rapid advances to law enforcement capacity to monitor citizens,” the NYCLU notes. “Some of these new technologies have filtered in from the battlefields into the hands of local law enforcement with little notice to the public and with little oversight. These technologies raise legitimate questions about cost, effectiveness, and the impact on the rights of everyday people to live in a society free of unwarranted government surveillance.”

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/10/the-nypd-is-using-mobile-x-rays-to-spy-on-unknown-targets/411181/?single_page=true
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Stalin on November 01, 2015, 03:05:09 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3282006/Incredible-moment-Russian-fighter-jet-passes-American-MQ-9-Reaper-drone-skies-Syria.html
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: 🏅Dooks on December 03, 2015, 08:13:12 AM

The Oregon slaughter of 10 people brings the total of mass shootings in the US this year - in which four or more people are killed or injured by gunfire - to 294. There have been only 274 days this year.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/oregon-shooting-274-days-and-294-mass-shootings-in-us-this-year-20151001-gjzl9c.html#ixzz3nRFPKGun

At that rate, 91 days left in the year and at least another 91 Americans are soon dead but don't know it yet, Women, Men, children. Unwilling to stop it through the political system. Idiots

thank god for gun laws in Australia.

Bump

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/12/02/us/san-bernardino-shooting/index.html
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Yeahright on December 03, 2015, 03:12:05 PM
Yeah but changing the gun laws won't do anything ::)
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: 🏅Dooks on December 03, 2015, 03:31:44 PM
Yeah but changing the gun laws won't do anything ::)

It wasn't the righteous AK 47s or hundreds of freedom bullets that killed all those innocent, it was the hellish thoughts and feelings of the perpetrators   ::)

Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Diocletian on December 03, 2015, 03:38:13 PM
Yes, his thoughts had nothing to do with it - the gun just had a mind of it's own....
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: 🏅Dooks on December 03, 2015, 04:19:56 PM
So many guns but it's strictly a 'people problem' lol

(http://www.martingrandjean.ch/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/firearms1.png)
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Penelope on December 04, 2015, 09:24:01 AM
interestingly that doesn't show deaths frompolice shootings.

nor does it explain why some countries have not too dissimilar levels of gun ownership as the united states but no where near the comparatively rate of shootings. Maybe guns from some non english speaking countries are not bad guns?.

But it seems that key to preventing terrorist attacks is to have gun control?

Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: 🏅Dooks on December 04, 2015, 09:27:13 AM
If we are talking about the united states, it's interesting to note that the states with stronger gun control generally have a lower rate of gun deaths than those with relaxed gun controls. There certainly is correlation.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/10/02/gun_control_by_state_tougher_laws_mean_fewer_deaths.html
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Stalin on December 04, 2015, 09:56:54 AM
German police officers fired a total of 85 bullets in 2011, 49 of which were warning shots, the German publication Der Spiegel reported. Officers fired 36 times at people, killing six and injuring 15. This is a slight decline from 2010, when seven people were killed and 17 injured. Ninety-six shots were fired in 2010.


Meanwhile, in the United States, The Atlantic reported that in April, 84 shots were fired at one murder suspect in Harlem, and another 90 at an unarmed man in Los Angeles.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Stalin on December 04, 2015, 10:00:08 AM
There were 879 fatal shooting by US police from 1 January 2015 to 25 November 2015. Of these 879, 82 victims were completely unarmed. But this does not tell the full story. Of the 797 armed suspects, 375 were armed with weapons that were no match for a gun. These weapons ranged from box cutters and screw drivers to beer bottles and cordless drills.

Of those who were armed, 13 were over the age of 70, and 2 were over the age of 80 - one of whom could barely walk and the other could not see. There were 19 minors who were killed, and 62 of those killed were under the age of 21. Four of those killed were under the age of 15.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Stalin on December 07, 2015, 11:04:45 PM
There seems to be  a lot of evidence the last one (mass shooting) was a false flag: eye witnesses reporting th shooter

Was three men dressed in military cobber...

Can provide source If required , search yourself   If you not too scared of bing on the list ... 
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Francois Hackson on December 07, 2015, 11:13:32 PM
 :lol there it is
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Stalin on December 07, 2015, 11:46:34 PM
Yeah it's pretty funny

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s45OeXNRZng

 :whistle
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Francois Hackson on December 07, 2015, 11:54:53 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOIGCyAR-0w

Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Stalin on December 08, 2015, 12:01:42 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOIGCyAR-0w

Here transcripts of the only two first-hand eyewitness interviews that were broadcast on tv:
Witness 1
Scott Pelley: One of the witnesses today is _____, who works at the Inland Regional Center, the building where the attack took place. She saw the attackers enter the building and we spoke to her by phone.
Witness: I heard umm shots fired and it was you know from an automatic weapon so you know it was very unusual... why, you know why would we hear shots? As we look out the window a second set of shots goes off, and its just pop-pop-pop-pop-pop-pop and we saw a man fall to the floor. Then we just looked and we saw three men dressed in all black military attire with vests on they were holding assault rifles and they (breathes) as soon as they opened the door to building three and one of them opened up the door to building three he started to spray shoot, you know shoot all over into the room, that's the room that we typically have conferences in, and we just heard more gun shots go off. I got my phone. I reached for my phone. I called 911 and I just hid under my desk. I didn't see anymore, I just heard more gunshots go off as I was talking to the dispatch. We went into my manager's office, locked the door, barricaded it. We heard running and things happening upstairs. About 30 minutes later someone came to the door, knocked on the door. But we didn't obviously answer. Then another 60 minutes later someone came and took us into a secure room.
Scott Pelley: Ms. ____ can you describe to me in as much detail as you can, what did the gunmen look like?
Witness: I couldn't see his face, he had a black hat on and from my view all I could see was a black hat and black long sleeve shirt, possibly gloves on. Ummm... he had black cargo pants on the kind with the zippers on the side and the big puffy pockets. He had a huge assault rifle and he had extra ammo. He was coming ready for, he was coming ready for something. To reload I don't know. He had [inaudible] magazines. Umm... I couldn't see what else, I just saw three dressed exactly the same.
Scott Pelley: You're certain that you saw three men?
Witness: Yes, it looked like their skin color was yeah, was white. They looked like they were athletic build and umm... they appeared to be tall.
Witness 2
Witness: Where I was at right here we seen there were three white men in military fatigues, um taking off.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Francois Hackson on December 08, 2015, 12:09:44 AM
il watch it soon mate, just after i finish watching the best of michael moore

Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Stalin on December 08, 2015, 12:10:41 AM
I went to the trouble of writing it for you

Witty retort. None the less
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Stalin on January 06, 2016, 04:18:02 AM
Another massacre and this time 20 primary school kids were gunned down  :'(. When will the Yanks ever learn it ain't 1776 anymore, abolish their 2nd amendment and get some strict gun laws!

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/world/feared-dead-in-school-shooting/story-fnd134gw-1226537283734

Are the powers less tyrannical?
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Stalin on January 21, 2016, 09:39:14 PM
Revolution could be around the corner. When the bourgeois start to take notice and rally. get the guillotines out....

Was talking to a mate about this very thing today with the french example too


So are you prepared to take up arms - you know, those evil gun things that those "crazy Americans" love but that you're both so dead against the proletariat being allowed access to? Because that's usually what's required to stage a revolution. :shh
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Dougeytherichmondfan on January 23, 2016, 12:45:42 AM
Revolution could be around the corner. When the bourgeois start to take notice and rally. get the guillotines out....

Was talking to a mate about this very thing today with the french example too


So are you prepared to take up arms - you know, those evil gun things that those "crazy Americans" love but that you're both so dead against the proletariat being allowed access to? Because that's usually what's required to stage a revolution. :shh
Karl Marx, where art thou?
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Loui Tufga on January 23, 2016, 01:06:09 AM
Meanwhile in Italy :whistle
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3283536/Italian-mayor-announces-fund-250-euros-cost-GUN.html
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Stalin on September 22, 2016, 09:33:03 AM
Shot a black kid for being armed with a book

 :bow

Karpernick is cool.

Patriotism - last refuge of the scoundrel 
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Chuck17 on September 22, 2016, 11:45:15 AM
what was he doing with the book
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Dougeytherichmondfan on September 22, 2016, 12:01:38 PM
what was he doing with the book
Incanting evil no doubt.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Ruanaidh on September 22, 2016, 08:16:13 PM
Shot a black kid for being armed with a book

 :bow

Karpernick is cool.

Patriotism - last refuge of the scoundrel
1/ Wrong. There was no book but there was a gun and he was repeatedly told to drop it before being shot by a black police officer.
2/ Wrong. Kaepernick (not Karpernick) is an ungrateful hypocrite who was given unique privilege by white Foster parents after his black parents discarded him. He is also a liar who recently converted to sunnism in order to date an adherent. He has chosen a contingent religious root over the constitution. Black lives matter my arse.  What a moron!
3/Wrong again. Patriotism is the only defence against imperialism and globalism.

You haven't had a good week methinks 😉

As for guns, the overwhelming percentage of victims involve black on black shootings. The problem isn't guns it is the caricature they call 'gang culture' that is to blame.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Stalin on September 23, 2016, 04:38:14 AM
Said the convict
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Ruanaidh on September 23, 2016, 06:32:56 AM
Said the convict
Convict??? I believe your meltdown and surrender  is complete....My Work is done.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Damo on September 23, 2016, 06:48:56 AM
Said the convict

He's pointed out a few times what his background is.

And that ain't it
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Stalin on September 23, 2016, 07:45:50 AM
No meltdown. Cool as a cucumber over here

I just was trying to point out half this country was sent here for stealing a cabbage

Bitch of the poms, now bitch o the seppos. Not quite sure how patriotism is saving us from imperialist inbreds
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Stalin on September 23, 2016, 07:46:52 AM
Said the convict

He's pointed out a few times what his background is.

And that ain't it

Welsh?
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Diocletian on September 23, 2016, 02:50:32 PM
2/ Wrong. Kaepernick (not Karpernick) is an ungrateful hypocrite who was given unique privilege by white Foster parents after his black parents discarded him. 

His biological mother is white....


Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Yeahright on September 23, 2016, 03:22:25 PM
(https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14448991_746883785449519_1424844266611024040_n.png?oh=f34a7db94980b91129502db41c968254&oe=58735D61)
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Ruanaidh on September 23, 2016, 05:46:07 PM
(https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14448991_746883785449519_1424844266611024040_n.png?oh=f34a7db94980b91129502db41c968254&oe=58735D61)
Don't confuse the SJW with facts. The resultant CD will cause him to spin another obtuse, alternative reality.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Ruanaidh on September 23, 2016, 05:51:03 PM
No meltdown. Cool as a cucumber over here

I just was trying to point out half this country was sent here for stealing a cabbage

Bitch of the poms, now bitch o the seppos. Not quite sure how patriotism is saving us from imperialist inbreds
A failed attempt at a racist slur....that shows your triggering proclivity. Present some facts to support your arguments and try to bridle your injured ego.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Ruanaidh on September 23, 2016, 05:58:17 PM
Said the convict

He's pointed out a few times what his background is.

And that ain't it
Haha it's only emblazoned all over my moniker and profile....not to mention; as you have kindly pointed out - many previous posts. But hey, I'm sounding a bit hubristic now..Time to pull my head in.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Yeahright on September 24, 2016, 12:10:49 AM
No meltdown. Cool as a cucumber over here

I just was trying to point out half this country was sent here for stealing a cabbage

Bitch of the poms, now bitch o the seppos. Not quite sure how patriotism is saving us from imperialist inbreds
A failed attempt at a racist slur....that shows your triggering proclivity. Present some facts to support your arguments and try to bridle your injured ego.

Prepare for articles from the deep dark internet with no validity and probably contradict itself, but it's important to focus on the part he wants us all to believe
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Ruanaidh on September 24, 2016, 08:03:16 AM
No meltdown. Cool as a cucumber over here

I just was trying to point out half this country was sent here for stealing a cabbage

Bitch of the poms, now bitch o the seppos. Not quite sure how patriotism is saving us from imperialist inbreds
A failed attempt at a racist slur....that shows your triggering proclivity. Present some facts to support your arguments and try to bridle your injured ego.

Prepare for articles from the deep dark internet with no validity and probably contradict itself, but it's important to focus on the part he wants us all to believe
Often, and apparently wrongly, attributed to  Churchill is the saying: "A young man who isn't a Socialist hasn't got a heart; an old man who is still a Socialist hasn't got a head". These days I would substitute Socialist with SJW.  Reading the history of the Spanish civil war circa 1936 cured me of any Socialist delusions. The great man George Orwell who was a participant articulates his political metamorphism via his analogous novels and first hand accounts from the period.

Personally, I pursued an investigation into liberty movements throughout history and became a Libertarian. Personal freedom, warts and all, is always better than any centralised dictate. The American model underpinned by the Constitution and its Amendments embodies for the most part my position. This is extremely ironic as I railed against the yanks in my youth and rightfully so. They were steered away from their founding traditions by the psychopathic Military Industrial Complex.

To bring this rant back to the topic at hand: The right to "bear arms". I would remind people that the 2nd Amendment is there to (among other purposes) protect the 1st Amendment.

I am a strong supporter of Trump who  I see as a step in the right direction. Not because he embodies my beliefs in their entirety but because arriving in his wake there are people who do.😉


 
 
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: 🏅Dooks on September 24, 2016, 08:15:16 AM
No meltdown. Cool as a cucumber over here

I just was trying to point out half this country was sent here for stealing a cabbage

Bitch of the poms, now bitch o the seppos. Not quite sure how patriotism is saving us from imperialist inbreds
A failed attempt at a racist slur....that shows your triggering proclivity. Present some facts to support your arguments and try to bridle your injured ego.

Prepare for articles from the deep dark internet with no validity and probably contradict itself, but it's important to focus on the part he wants us all to believe
Often, and apparently wrongly, attributed to  Churchill is the saying: "A young man who isn't a Socialist hasn't got a heart; an old man who is still a Socialist hasn't got a head". These days I would substitute Socialist with SJW.  Reading the history of the Spanish civil war circa 1936 cured me of any Socialist delusions. The great man George Orwell who was a first hand witness articulates his political metamorphism via his analogous novels and first hand accounts from the period.

Personally, I pursued an investigation into liberty movements throughout history and became a Libertarian. Personal freedom, warts and all, is always better than any centralised dictate. The American model underpinned by the Constitution and its Amendments embodies for the most part my position. This is extremely ironic as I railed against the yanks in my youth and rightfully so. They were steered away from their founding traditions by the psychopathic Military Industrial Complex.

I am a strong supporter of Trump who  I see as a step in the right direction. Not because he embodies my beliefs in their entirety but because arriving in his wake there are people who do.😉

Respectfully, you could have ended up at, more or less, the same conclusion and substituted Bush for Trump.

I see clinton as the lesser of two evils although i wouldnt vote for either.

But i digress.

Do you think this psychopathic military industrial complex has gotton worse over the last 20-30 years? I would also like to ask whos interests do you think they are serving?

Is it still 'we the people'?
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Ruanaidh on September 24, 2016, 08:25:06 AM
No meltdown. Cool as a cucumber over here

I just was trying to point out half this country was sent here for stealing a cabbage

Bitch of the poms, now bitch o the seppos. Not quite sure how patriotism is saving us from imperialist inbreds
A failed attempt at a racist slur....that shows your triggering proclivity. Present some facts to support your arguments and try to bridle your injured ego.

Prepare for articles from the deep dark internet with no validity and probably contradict itself, but it's important to focus on the part he wants us all to believe
Often, and apparently wrongly, attributed to  Churchill is the saying: "A young man who isn't a Socialist hasn't got a heart; an old man who is still a Socialist hasn't got a head". These days I would substitute Socialist with SJW.  Reading the history of the Spanish civil war circa 1936 cured me of any Socialist delusions. The great man George Orwell who was a first hand witness articulates his political metamorphism via his analogous novels and first hand accounts from the period.

Personally, I pursued an investigation into liberty movements throughout history and became a Libertarian. Personal freedom, warts and all, is always better than any centralised dictate. The American model underpinned by the Constitution and its Amendments embodies for the most part my position. This is extremely ironic as I railed against the yanks in my youth and rightfully so. They were steered away from their founding traditions by the psychopathic Military Industrial Complex.

I am a strong supporter of Trump who  I see as a step in the right direction. Not because he embodies my beliefs in their entirety but because arriving in his wake there are people who do.😉

Respectfully, you could have ended up at, more or less, the same conclusion and substituted Bush for Trump.

I see clinton as the lesser of two evils although i wouldnt vote for either.

But i digress.

Do you think this psychopathic military industrial complex has gotton worse over the last 20-30 years? I would also like to ask whos interests do you think they are serving?

Is it still 'we the people'?
Dooks there is no comparison between Bush and Trump other than the fact that they have both used the GOP as their political vehicle. We all know who the MIC are serving. "Cui Bono" is the key. They have held sway since the end of WW2.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Stalin on September 24, 2016, 08:55:28 AM
Ruana - a failed racial slur against Australians, something I am quite entitled to do as an australian, according the last vilification meeting 
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: 🏅Dooks on September 24, 2016, 08:57:36 AM
No meltdown. Cool as a cucumber over here

I just was trying to point out half this country was sent here for stealing a cabbage

Bitch of the poms, now bitch o the seppos. Not quite sure how patriotism is saving us from imperialist inbreds
A failed attempt at a racist slur....that shows your triggering proclivity. Present some facts to support your arguments and try to bridle your injured ego.

Prepare for articles from the deep dark internet with no validity and probably contradict itself, but it's important to focus on the part he wants us all to believe
Often, and apparently wrongly, attributed to  Churchill is the saying: "A young man who isn't a Socialist hasn't got a heart; an old man who is still a Socialist hasn't got a head". These days I would substitute Socialist with SJW.  Reading the history of the Spanish civil war circa 1936 cured me of any Socialist delusions. The great man George Orwell who was a first hand witness articulates his political metamorphism via his analogous novels and first hand accounts from the period.

Personally, I pursued an investigation into liberty movements throughout history and became a Libertarian. Personal freedom, warts and all, is always better than any centralised dictate. The American model underpinned by the Constitution and its Amendments embodies for the most part my position. This is extremely ironic as I railed against the yanks in my youth and rightfully so. They were steered away from their founding traditions by the psychopathic Military Industrial Complex.

I am a strong supporter of Trump who  I see as a step in the right direction. Not because he embodies my beliefs in their entirety but because arriving in his wake there are people who do.😉

Respectfully, you could have ended up at, more or less, the same conclusion and substituted Bush for Trump.

I see clinton as the lesser of two evils although i wouldnt vote for either.

But i digress.

Do you think this psychopathic military industrial complex has gotton worse over the last 20-30 years? I would also like to ask whos interests do you think they are serving?

Is it still 'we the people'?
Dooks there is no comparison between Bush and Trump other than the fact that they have both used the GOP as their political vehicle. We all know who the MIC are serving. "Cui Bono" is the key. They have held sway since the end of WW2.

We'll have agree to disagree on the first sentence. Both for mine were/are more Libertarians than their democratic rivals.

So what is the way to deconstruct the power and influence basis of who the MIC are serving? Would Sanders have beeen the better option through a social democracy and using the taxation system (for example), or does the answer lay more right of the spectrum?
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Diocletian on September 24, 2016, 11:40:30 AM
George Soros is a far bigger threat to the world than ISIS, Clinton or Trump.... :shh
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Ruanaidh on September 24, 2016, 02:33:40 PM
George Soros is a far bigger threat to the world than ISIS, Clinton or Trump.... :shh
Agreed
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Ruanaidh on September 24, 2016, 02:37:04 PM
Ruana - a failed racial slur against Australians, something I am quite entitled to do as an australian, according the last vilification meeting
C'mon buddy. It was an adhominen attack based on your slack perception that I was from convict stock. Just admit you were wrong and move on. Btw I am only annoyed at the post because you were lazy. Throw an Irish based Jibe at me and i'll cop it sweet. .......or not.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Ruanaidh on September 24, 2016, 03:03:31 PM
No meltdown. Cool as a cucumber over here

I just was trying to point out half this country was sent here for stealing a cabbage

Bitch of the poms, now bitch o the seppos. Not quite sure how patriotism is saving us from imperialist inbreds
A failed attempt at a racist slur....that shows your triggering proclivity. Present some facts to support your arguments and try to bridle your injured ego.

Prepare for articles from the deep dark internet with no validity and probably contradict itself, but it's important to focus on the part he wants us all to believe
Often, and apparently wrongly, attributed to  Churchill is the saying: "A young man who isn't a Socialist hasn't got a heart; an old man who is still a Socialist hasn't got a head". These days I would substitute Socialist with SJW.  Reading the history of the Spanish civil war circa 1936 cured me of any Socialist delusions. The great man George Orwell who was a first hand witness articulates his political metamorphism via his analogous novels and first hand accounts from the period.

Personally, I pursued an investigation into liberty movements throughout history and became a Libertarian. Personal freedom, warts and all, is always better than any centralised dictate. The American model underpinned by the Constitution and its Amendments embodies for the most part my position. This is extremely ironic as I railed against the yanks in my youth and rightfully so. They were steered away from their founding traditions by the psychopathic Military Industrial Complex.

I am a strong supporter of Trump who  I see as a step in the right direction. Not because he embodies my beliefs in their entirety but because arriving in his wake there are people who do.😉

Respectfully, you could have ended up at, more or less, the same conclusion and substituted Bush for Trump.

I see clinton as the lesser of two evils although i wouldnt vote for either.

But i digress.

Do you think this psychopathic military industrial complex has gotton worse over the last 20-30 years? I would also like to ask whos interests do you think they are serving?

Is it still 'we the people'?
Dooks there is no comparison between Bush and Trump other than the fact that they have both used the GOP as their political vehicle. We all know who the MIC are serving. "Cui Bono" is the key. They have held sway since the end of WW2.

We'll have agree to disagree on the first sentence. Both for mine were/are more Libertarians than their democratic rivals.

So what is the way to deconstruct the power and influence basis of who the MIC are serving? Would Sanders have beeen the better option through a social democracy and using the taxation system (for example), or does the answer lay more right of the spectrum?
Yes we will disagree on that characterisation.As for the solution and I  will not be exhaustive as It really is for another thread:
1/ Cease the expeditionary wars which are a Clinton/Bush construct on behalf of the MIC sold as "Liberal Interventions"
2/ Devise a template for all things Military whereby their unison with the best interests of Australian citizens and egalitarianism is tested and fortified.
3/ Cease immigration from areas where inhabitants do not accept secular principles
4/ Remove ourselves from UN agreements.
5/ Develop pacts with countries that represent or aspire to western traditions

That's a start I suppose. I know it only relates to the MIC part of your question but the economics I would recommend needs more time to explain than I can proffer today. Doggies game coming up😀 Needless to say I despise Sanders. He is more dangerous than Killary imo...and that is saying something.
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Stalin on October 01, 2016, 09:51:46 AM

Stefan Bondy – Verified account ‏@SBondyNYDN

Joakim Noah says he decided not to attend dinner with cadets last night and doesn't feel comfortable at military academy. Hates war.
9:53 AM - 30 Sep 2016
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Yeahright on October 02, 2016, 02:06:54 PM
http://www.9news.com.au/national/2016/10/01/14/27/man-shot-in-carrum-downs
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: mightytiges on November 06, 2017, 07:44:56 PM
Another mass shooting in the US that will be ignored again until the next mass shooting :facepalm.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/world/shooting-at-texas-baptist-church-in-sutherland-springs-as-police-report-multiple-victims-of-active-gunman/news-story/6ccfe98092c62d2c263ca983df006c57

(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/dEjWawsPYNr9AMfge4jYtShNCdA=/1200x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/9371383/guns_country.jpg)
https://www.vox.com/2015/10/3/9444417/gun-violence-united-states-america
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: mightytiges on February 15, 2018, 02:07:27 PM
Another school shooting with 17 dead. They never learn over there.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-15/florida-shooting-17-confirmed-dead-several-people-surgery/9449076
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Damo on February 15, 2018, 07:58:33 PM
The Steve Kerr interview was sensational


https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/steve-kerr-on-florida-school-shooting-it-doesnt-seem-to-matter-to-our-government/
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: mightytiges on February 16, 2018, 03:23:29 PM
The Steve Kerr interview was sensational


https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/steve-kerr-on-florida-school-shooting-it-doesnt-seem-to-matter-to-our-government/
:clapping
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: mightytiges on May 19, 2018, 01:55:32 PM
Another day and another school shooting massacre. 10 dead. They never learn over there. Trump tweeting his thoughts and prayers while bowing to the NRA ::).

https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-america/police-race-to-texas-high-school-after-reports-of-gunfire-20180519-p4zg8i.html
Title: Re: Americans and their guns
Post by: Assange Tiger on May 19, 2018, 01:57:48 PM
Sad to hear. That country and their gun laws are completely munted.

However, hard to single out the Trumpster on this issue. All of their pollies are too scared to go against the NRA. Will take a brave president to go against those crones