One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: one-eyed on September 22, 2018, 11:19:21 PM
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They’re at a crossroads’: Caro’s concern for Richmond
3AW Football
22 Sep 2018
Caroline Wilson says Richmond are at a crossroads after crashing out of the finals on Friday night.
The Tigers lost to Collingwood by 39 points in one of the biggest upsets in recent memory after entering the game as premiership favourites.
Caro compared the loss to Essendon’s one-point defeat to Carlton in the 1999 preliminary final.
“(Richmond) were a team that could have but will they (sustain success) now,” she told 3AW Football.
Lloydy said “everyone at Essendon” understood they underachieved in 1999.
“I’m still grateful for the one premiership I’ve got because I know how hard they are to win,” he said.
“You’ve got to turn up on prelim and Grand Final day and perform.”
AUDIO: https://omny.fm/shows/3aw-is-football/caroline-wilson-richmond-are-at-a-crossroads/embed?style=artwork
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I wouldn’t say we’re at the cross roads but we certainly can’t let our guard down again.
We desperately need a second ruck and to freshen the group up a little by cutting sme dead wood.
We need to find upgrades for Houli, Grigg, Conca and B Ellis plus add to our midfield depth.
The future still looks rosey to me but we should be kicking ourselves for letting this one get away!
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STFU Caro ya stuffin' drama queen....
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What a over reaction.Fine tune game plan and get a second ruck forward and a few inside midfielders to win clearances and contested ball be fine.Make hard calls on players to.
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Everyone knew we pulled off a hell of a stunt last year without the ideal list. Just hope we can still make the most of blokes like Jack while they are peaking.
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I'm not sure we are at the crossroads but people shouldn't be under any illusion here. If we make mistakes in the next trading and drafting period we will be in trouble down the track.
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I think 18 wins would suggest we're ok. Game plan needs adjustments as we've been worked out a bit. 2nd ruck a huge concern. Need to play 2 rucks or a Balta hybrid tall who can at least compete.
Don't throw the toys out of the cot after a bad game
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I wouldn’t say we’re at the cross roads but we certainly can’t let our guard down again.
We desperately need a second ruck and to freshen the group up a little by cutting sme dead wood.
We need to find upgrades for Houli, Grigg, Conca and B Ellis plus add to our midfield depth.
The future still looks rosey to me but we should be kicking ourselves for letting this one get away!
Agree Loui.
Unfortunately, Grigg and Houli are staying. Actually think it is one of the "disadvantages" when you win a flag some clubs tend to hang on to blokes too long because they helped you win that flag. Reckon sentiment plays a part
My view this year has always been we shouldn't have offered both Grigg and Houli new deals. Should have been 1 only. Think we also need to be ruthless at the trade table. We have players that although we as supporters don't rate highly other clubs do. We need (IMHO) to be ruthless and trade at least one possibly two out to get better placed in the draft and /or bring in some talent to fill needs
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I think 18 wins would suggest we're ok. Game plan needs adjustments as we've been worked out a bit. 2nd ruck a huge concern. Need to play 2 rucks or a Balta hybrid tall who can at least compete.
Don't throw the toys out of the cot after a bad game
Exactly pmac. Talk of deficiencies with Rance, Nank etc is over the top. We were beaten by a better team and in reality the writing was on the wall long before Friday.
Our biggest issue is now a lack of height and if we miss out on lynch I think we are in real strife next year to contest for a flag. He will be a massive inclusion, and in fact if he played Friday we come close to winning. We had more inside 50’s in the first half but outside of Jack no one else stood up around there. Caddy Georgie were pathetic.
I also think we are one quality inside mid short. Let’s hope that area improves when grigg plays regilr vfl time.
WP is right one of Grigg/Houli should have been kept on the list, but it happens. Both played a very big part in helping us achieve succcess so they got rewarded.
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I think 18 wins would suggest we're ok. Game plan needs adjustments as we've been worked out a bit. 2nd ruck a huge concern. Need to play 2 rucks or a Balta hybrid tall who can at least compete.
Don't throw the toys out of the cot after a bad game
Exactly pmac. Talk of deficiencies with Rance, Nank etc is over the top. We were beaten by a better team and in reality the writing was on the wall long before Friday.
Our biggest issue is now a lack of height and if we miss out on lynch I think we are in real strife next year to contest for a flag. He will be a massive inclusion, and in fact if he played Friday we come close to winning. We had more inside 50’s in the first half but outside of Jack no one else stood up around there. Caddy Georgie were pathetic.
I also think we are one quality inside mid short. Let’s hope that area improves when grigg plays regilr vfl time.
WP is right one of Grigg/Houli should have been kept on the list, but it happens. Both played a very big part in helping us achieve succcess so they got rewarded.
I agree with you both.
I think Nank is a very very good ruckman who is not elite but was beaten by one of the best players in the comp - theres no shame in that. Grundy is hands down the best ruckman in the comp. alls to bring in a new ruck are ridiculous. Hes only 23 with 50 games exp and will continue to improve.
Hopefully balta/Chol keep developing and start getting some gametime to give us a genuine 2nd ruck option. Grigg as second ruck is done. I think once Lynch fully heals he will also take the ruck in the fwd line allowing nank to sit behind the play. Its the big centre square ruck contests that we wont see Lynch going up in due to his pcl.
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I’d put it to Balta that there’s a spot in the backline between him and Nathan Broad.
I’d like to put the same challenge to Oleg for Houli’s spot and Menadue/Lloyd for Grigga spot.
Lynch will come and it will be up to us to see if he can be that pinch hitter in the ruck, the experiment with Grigg obviously started to get exploited through the year and we were increasingly exposed through the back half of this season.
I think the spine of Rance, Astbury, Dusty, Jack and Lynch is a once a generation set up.
Possibly not equaled in my memory and the equal of Brisbane in the early 2000’s and Hawks of the 80’s.
The only chink is midfield depth where I hoping the emerging youth of Higgins, Graham, Menadue, Naish and Rioli can begin to be the start of a second string that offer support to Cotchin, Prestia, Martin and Shedda.
This group has 2, maybe 3 years to stamp itself into immortality as the group of this decade - even ahead of the Hawks.
They’ve proven themselves to me, I’d think another flag or 2 will consolidate the view of the broader football world that they are one of the all time great teams of the AFL - something I think they’ve now
deserved, particularly after the humility they showed after Friday nights game.
They are a great team and they have started to restore our reputation as a great club, something that I will always cherish this group for achieving.
The first flag was for us the fans, I think they owe to themselves to win a second flag for them - the players.
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STFU Caro ya stuffin' drama queen....
calm down pls
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Dooks and Caro sitting in a tree..... :shh
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S o o k i n g :shh
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I agree with Caro, we are at a cross roads, the game will change a little bit next year with the new rules, and the arrival of Lynch will def change the way we play some what. Things are evolving. Our decisions in the next 2 months are sooo critical to our success moving forward hence the term "cross roads". Balme needs to send Dimma on holidays and just let the list management dept get on with it, to hell with sentiment.
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The vibe around the whole place has been too relaxed, too stress free and too silently cocky.
Time passes, things change.
Agree on the changes Louie suggests.
Also,think it was a huge mistake not giving Towner a shot over Conca.
I'm talking before his injury.
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When you put your trust in a process that has been processed by the opposition, it's time to go to the next plan.
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The vibe around the whole place has been too relaxed, too stress free and too silently cocky.
Time passes, things change.
agreed - and it appears to have rubbed off on a few site members too.
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The vibe around the whole place has been too relaxed, too stress free and too silently cocky.
Time passes, things change.
Agree on the changes Louie suggests.
Also,think it was a huge mistake not giving Towner a shot over Conca.
I'm talking before his injury.
the writing was on the wall long before the game. We had a bad day yes, but i thought they had a bit of cockiness about them tbh and the pies pounced. Thats life.
Furthermore, i noticed at training as they came out there were barely any smiles for the fans who came out to watch them and perhaps some think they are better than what they are. (conca, bellis, lambert to name 3)
Once we barely won that game against the dogs i thought okay, but i think the writing on the wall was the loss against the dons in VFL, which by the way i only saw jack R there and not a single other player (stand to be corrected)
Thats 2 teams who failed to make a GF.
Peaked too early or as i suspect a bit of arrogance that they thought it would happen against the pies who brought it and we didnt.
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I’d put it to Balta that there’s a spot in the backline between him and Nathan Broad.
I’d like to put the same challenge to Oleg for Houli’s spot and Menadue/Lloyd for Grigga spot.
Lynch will come and it will be up to us to see if he can be that pinch hitter in the ruck, the experiment with Grigg obviously started to get exploited through the year and we were increasingly exposed through the back half of this season.
I think the spine of Rance, Astbury, Dusty, Jack and Lynch is a once a generation set up.
Possibly not equaled in my memory and the equal of Brisbane in the early 2000’s and Hawks of the 80’s.
The only chink is midfield depth where I hoping the emerging youth of Higgins, Graham, Menadue, Naish and Rioli can begin to be the start of a second string that offer support to Cotchin, Prestia, Martin and Shedda.
This group has 2, maybe 3 years to stamp itself into immortality as the group of this decade - even ahead of the Hawks.
They’ve proven themselves to me, I’d think another flag or 2 will consolidate the view of the broader football world that they are one of the all time great teams of the AFL - something I think they’ve now
deserved, particularly after the humility they showed after Friday nights game.
They are a great team and they have started to restore our reputation as a great club, something that I will always cherish this group for achieving.
The first flag was for us the fans, I think they owe to themselves to win a second flag for them - the players.
Well said :clapping
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Many more than Riewoldt were at that game
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This may be not be related,but next time we have success don't write a book about it 6 months later telling the whole afl world what we did and what was successful and our processes etc.Do it 5 or 6 years down the track.Why would we do that you keep
all the edges you can.
Clubs started copying us I'm not talking just game plan,but the mentality side of it to.Pies sounded like us at one stage coach and players and a few other clubs to when they talk.
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Last year it was all about embracing the hype, get caught up in it.
This year they shut off the media and kept things in house...
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Deadeye Wayne. I was thinking this a while back.
No one really knows why or how it went wrong but i think a loss late in the season wouldn’t have hurt to reset their mindset.
A few probably thought it would just happen this year.
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This may be not be related,but next time we have success don't write a book about it 6 months later telling the whole afl world what we did and what was successful and our processes etc.Do it 5 or 6 years down the track.Why would we do that you keep
all the edges you can.
Clubs started copying us I'm not talking just game plan,but the mentality side of it to.Pies sounded like us at one stage coach and players and a few other clubs to when they talk.
fair point.
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This may be not be related,but next time we have success don't write a book about it 6 months later telling the whole afl world what we did and what was successful and our processes etc.Do it 5 or 6 years down the track.Why would we do that you keep
all the edges you can.
Clubs started copying us I'm not talking just game plan,but the mentality side of it to.Pies sounded like us at one stage coach and players and a few other clubs to when they talk.
Very underrated post.
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Being the hunted kinda sucked.
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Only right at the end.... :shh
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Being the hunted kinda sucked.
We certainly played like the hunted. Whether we'd been worn down by every side every week using us as reigning premiers as a barometer for where they were at or that we simply just didn't mentally and physically turn up to play on Friday night, we definitely didn't have anywhere near the intensity and attack on the footy required for a final. That's what is most frustrating about the loss.
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Being the hunted kinda sucked.
We certainly played like the hunted. Whether we'd been worn down by every side every week using us as reigning premiers as a barometer for where they were at or that we simply just didn't mentally and physically turn up to play on Friday night, we definitely didn't have anywhere near the intensity and attack on the footy required for a final. That's what is most frustrating about the loss.
New territory for the players. Were the Hunters in 2017 and became the Hunted in 2018.
Back to being the Hunters in 2019....maybe with a stack on new talent
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We peaked too early. The early rounds were our best games, also Collingwood thought us out and with the new rule changes next year we have to change. Not wholesale but we need to plan to hit form from round 16 and 18 onwards.
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God i hope I don’t have to hear the reporters ask about going from being the hunter to the hunted back to the hunted with Dimmas answer being “the way we play we always consider ourselves the hunter” every few days next year.
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Does anyone think we reached the heights of our finals wins of last year in any game this year?
I personally don’t remember any game this year where our pressure was what it was in those finals.
Even with all those wins it was like we hadn’t improved and some of the better teams had improved that 5 or 10%.... especially in the prelim
I think our backline is pretty set for next year with the exception of Houli. I think we need an upgrade on him and he should be “depth” at best.
Markov is quicker, tougher, more desperate, and his disposal is very good, and with more game time his poise and decision making will improve.
Even if his output isn’t the same as Houli’s at round 1, he should be played ahead of him so at round 15 or even 20, his output hopefully will be better than what Houli can give.
Markov’s upside if give games is better than Houli’s ceiling going forward.
If we are to improve, we need to change the personal of players that can not improve.
Grigg is also in the same boat imo.
I would also look at potentially giving Vlastuin another crack as that inside mid we are after. I know he had a crack last but it’s not going to happen overnight but the upside could be enormous.
A backline like this could still be very good especially with a couple with a years senior footy under their belts
Grimes Rance Astbury/Broad
Short Bolta Markov
And a forwardline of
Rioli Jack George
Butler Lynch Caddy/Townsend
The 3 smalls are all lightening quick which sets them apart from the other smalls on our list. Our 3 all have different qualities which also makes them important, and if one of them is down, the other two usually step up. The pressure they can apply as a group is outstanding and all are still young and hopefully improving each year.
Which leaves the following as onballers/wingman/half forwards
Nank, Dusty, Cotch, Prestia, Vlastuin, Edwards, Lambert, Higgins, Graham.
Still a quality young side with lots of improvement in it.
If we can regain our pressure in 2019 and Lynch can have a good year and give us something we desperately needed, we should be ok.
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I like the idea of giving vlastuin another crack in the middle, Balta seems like a good replacement if he is ready for senior footy - good contested mark, long penetrating kick and can provide more dash than vlastuin can back there.
Would also like to see Bolton and Stengle get more opportunities next year assuming they both stay they can challenge for the 3 small fwd roles with castagna and butler while Higgins and I think Rioli next season can rotate through the middle.
Thinking with lynch coming next year caddy will get a lot more midfield time then he’s had in his first 2 seasons considering he’s essentially played that second kf role which lynch will slot nicely into.
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Like to see Caddy & Vlastuin rotate thriugh the middle and up forward...never together though - both too slow to be in the same part of the ground at the same time....
Bolton to me should be the Yarran type of hbf....but capable of playing in all three lines....
Castsagna has untapped potential as an on baller and a run with player. IMO...might be his best chance of staying around beyond next year....
All moot though as I doubt Hardwick would make any of those moves..... :shh
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Of course I'd rather we just got another decent inside mid and just left Vlastuin & Caddy where they are....would still like to see Vlastuin swing forward more often though and on ball occasionally....same goes for Short and even Astbury.....the more flexibile players you have, the better and it also helps you better cover injuries... :shh
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Balmey will have it under control.
We were exposed by not having played more vfl players and leaving players in one position.
Sheedy was the master of that one.
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Like to see Caddy & Vlastuin rotate thriugh the middle and up forward...never together though - both too slow to be in the same part of the ground at the same time....
Bolton to me should be the Yarran type of hbf....but capable of playing in all three lines....
Castsagna has untapped potential as an on baller and a run with player. IMO...might be his best chance of staying around beyond next year....
All moot though as I doubt Hardwick would make any of those moves..... :shh
Do you really think Bolton could be hard enough and disciplined enough to play off halfback? Even physically big enough?
We have had to endure Houli off halfback with his below AFL standard defending for year now, imo we don’t need another reluctant to tackle, poor spoiler, in our backline.
Short is no beast in this area and I hope he can improve, but his kicking and run make it a tiny bit more barable. And you can have one maybe in your side.
That’s why I think Markov could be ideal. He is made to play that position I reckon. He gives you the best of both worlds, hard and tough and with excellent run and carry and a nice kick.
I would love to see a back 6 that are fanatical in their attack of the footy- 6 Grimes’ would be nice.
4x 190mm players that can play on talls and smalls (Grimes, Rance, Broad, Bolta) with the 2 running, still good defenders first and foremost, penatrating kick flankers.
As good as Astbury has been, he gets found out sometimes when he hasn’t got a decent match up.
It’s ok to have a guy like Astbury that can play in 18 wins for the year, but if gets beaten in the other 4 games against good sides, he needs to be looked at imo.
Our backline is in good shape imo.
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Bolton is an outside mid, winger. That's his best position. He uses his pace and evasiveness to slice through the opposition's defensive zone. He did that as a junior and that's where he's played his best football in the VFL. He csn go forward and kick a goal but really isn't a permanent small forward.
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Losses to port and gws wernt due to the defence.
The other 3 losses - Adelaide, west coast and Collingwood the whole defence was well beaten. Not sure how you’ve singled out Astbury there.
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Agree with BT regarding Markov and Houli. I hope they play Markov from round 1 next year as he is everything BT said he is and Houli isn't. Houli to play most of the year in the VFL for mine. I had an interesting conversation the other week with an employee of the Tigers about Balta, Millar and CCJ. The view is the Club is very excited about them all becoming good players but needed further development to learn the game at the top level. Should Balta fast track his development over summer he could be looked at...just needs to slow his mind down and make good decisions with the ball. Very similar to Rance early days.
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Losses to port and gws wernt due to the defence.
The other 3 losses - Adelaide, west coast and Collingwood the whole defence was well beaten. Not sure how you’ve singled out Astbury there.
Astbury has improved out of sight but without Rance, Vlastuin and Grimes going second man up, he would struggle imo.
And if he can’t do the job on the big forwards, we have to look at someone else that can.
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Bolton's best games in the VFL this year were when they moved him to half-back and also put him on ball.....for one he didn't try to take speccys and kick goal of the year with every possession like he does up forward.... :shh
Also Short in finals played the way we all worried Houli was going to play last year....got exposed as a massive brown pantsed shirker.... :shh :shh
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Agree with BT regarding Markov and Houli. I hope they play Markov from round 1 next year as he is everything BT said he is and Houli isn't. Houli to play most of the year in the VFL for mine. I had an interesting conversation the other week with an employee of the Tigers about Balta, Millar and CCJ. The view is the Club is very excited about them all becoming good players but needed further development to learn the game at the top level. Should Balta fast track his development over summer he could be looked at...just needs to slow his mind down and make good decisions with the ball. Very similar to Rance early days.
Spot on :thumbsup
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I think we need to focus on contested possession and winning clearances number one priority we a ranked 18th worse then the bottom sides and it showed how important it is last Friday this puts alot of pressure on our defence and the river breaks eventually .Hear this BS tigers don't mind conceding them that's crap for me we just can't win them and puzzling with our midfield to.Need inside midfielders.
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I think we need to focus on contested possession and winning clearances number one priority we a ranked 18th worse then the bottom sides and it showed how important it is last Friday this puts alot of pressure on our defence and the river breaks eventually .Hear this BS tigers don't mind conceding them that's crap for me we just can't win them and puzzling with our midfield to.Need inside midfielders.
Yes. 100% we need a big bodied mid that has some speed. Caddy is ideal with his size and toughness but slower than my grandmother so isn’t the answer. We need a bull that has uncanny ability to extract the pill more than most.
Bolton is an outside mid, winger. That's his best position. He uses his pace and evasiveness to slice through the opposition's defensive zone. He did that as a junior and that's where he's played his best football in the VFL. He csn go forward and kick a goal but really isn't a permanent small forward.
Yes. I agree YBB.
A Bradley Hill type slicing it up on a wing. Hes definitely an out side mid that has X factor.