One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: Tiger Khosh on October 28, 2019, 06:29:05 PM
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Did anyone see this article? I don’t have the link but based on what was copied onto reddit it goes like this:
“Richmond is a powerhouse both on and off the field, and the tigers are the team to beat in 2020 and for the foreseeable future given the strength and depth of talent on their list. While there are never any guarantees in footy and it only takes a slight drop in preparation or mindset to come back to the field, this team has the weapons to win multiple premierships over the next 3-5 years.”
LIST BREAKDOWN
A: Martin, Cotchin, Rance, Lynch, Riewoldt
B+: Grimes
B: Edwards, Astbury, Rioli, Nankervis, Pickett (on talent)
B-: Prestia, Houli, Lambert
C+: Vlastuin, Castagna, Short, Caddy, McIntosh, Broad, Soldo
C: Markov, Aarts
C-: Nil
Developing*: Higgins, Graham, Balta, Stack, Naish, RCD, Ross
Developing: Bolton, Chol, CCJ, Garthwaite, DES, Miller, English, Baker, Turner
Developing* refers to players 21 years or under with the potential to become A or B- grade players in the future.
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Imagine thinking Prestia was a B- player and even worse Vlastuin a C+ player :help
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Haven’t been Edwards biggest fan over the journey but a Bs a bit low
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Buckenare is bucken bucked
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Wow, that's an appalling summation, seriously lacking vitamin A and DHA (cognitive function)
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Buckenare is bucken bucked
The Bucken Buckenara is bucking bucked!
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I love Georgie more than most but Vlastuin is twice the player he is.
He should have been AA this year.
And if Edwards isn’t a B+ player or better of the AFL I’ll go it at tiggy.
And lastly Rioli isn’t anywhere near a B in the AFL.
Rioli better than Vlastuin- get a grip Bucky!
Try watching a game or two.
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Rioli is a b grade player. Has class. A fine goal in the grand final a beautiful underground gandball to Dusty where dusty kicks a goal. Daniel has class and thats why he is a B. Vlastuin is an A Grader.
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More to the point, how isn’t Dusty an A+?
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I love Georgie more than most but Vlastuin is twice the player he is.
He should have been AA this year.
And if Edwards isn’t a B+ player or better of the AFL I’ll go it at tiggy.
And lastly Rioli isn’t anywhere near a B in the AFL.
Rioli better than Vlastuin- get a grip Bucky!
Try watching a game or two.
Agree with all of this.
Prestia's B- is the most galling for mine, he's comfortably a B+. Houli also too low based on the past season, but I don't see him replicating that in 2020.
Caddy should be at least one grade higher, possibly two.
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This is my summation
A+ Martin Lynch Rance Grimes
A: Riewoldt Prestia Houli Vlastuin Edwards Cotchin(gets an A for leadership value)
B+: Lambert Caddy
B: Astbury, Rioli, Nankervis, Castagna, Broad
B-: Pickett Graham Short Bolton
C+: McIntosh, Soldo
C: Markov, Aarts
C-: Nil
Developing*: Higgins, Balta, Stack, Naish, RCD, Ross
Developing: Chol, CCJ, Garthwaite, DES, Miller, English, Baker, Turner
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This is my summation
A+ Martin Lynch Rance Grimes
A: Riewoldt Prestia Houli Vlastuin Edwards Cotchin(gets an A for leadership value)
B+: Lambert Caddy
B: Astbury, Rioli, Nankervis, Castagna, Broad
B-: Pickett Graham Short Bolton
C+: McIntosh, Soldo
C: Markov, Aarts
C-: Nil
Developing*: Higgins, Balta, Stack, Naish, RCD, Ross
Developing: Chol, CCJ, Garthwaite, DES, Miller, English, Baker, Turner
You can't really rate Aarts yet, he hasn't played.
Other than that, looks pretty accurate.
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F:Aarts :shh
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This is my summation
A+ Martin Lynch Rance Grimes
A: Riewoldt Prestia Houli Vlastuin Edwards Cotchin(gets an A for leadership value)
B+: Lambert Caddy
B: Astbury, Rioli, Nankervis, Castagna, Broad
B-: Pickett Graham Short Bolton
C+: McIntosh, Soldo
C: Markov, Aarts
C-: Nil
Developing*: Higgins, Balta, Stack, Naish, RCD, Ross
Developing: Chol, CCJ, Garthwaite, DES, Miller, English, Baker, Turner
You can't really rate Aarts yet, he hasn't played.
Other than that, looks pretty accurate.
I’d say dusty and Rance deserve their own top tier of our list. Legit once in a generation players and shoe ins to be in our greatest ever side.
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This is how I rate our list- and I have rated them compared to opposition players in their positions.
(And with some of the young ones, it’s how I rate them now from what I have seen at AFL level)
A grade- Dusty, Rance, Jack, Cotch, Grimes, Edwards, Vlastuin
B grade- Prestia, Lambert, Caddy, Stack
C grade- Astbury, George, Nank, Baker, Graham, Bolton, Broad, Short, McIntosh, Rioli, Houli, Higgins, Pickett
D grade- Soldo, Markov, Ross, Balta, CCJ, DES
E grade- Naish- need to see more
No good- Garthwaite
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This is my summation
A+ Martin Lynch Rance Grimes
A: Riewoldt Prestia Houli Vlastuin Edwards Cotchin(gets an A for leadership value)
B+: Lambert Caddy
B: Astbury, Rioli, Nankervis, Castagna, Broad
B-: Pickett Graham Short Bolton
C+: McIntosh, Soldo
C: Markov, Aarts
C-: Nil
Developing*: Higgins, Balta, Stack, Naish, RCD, Ross
Developing: Chol, CCJ, Garthwaite, DES, Miller, English, Baker, Turner
You can't really rate Aarts yet, he hasn't played.
Other than that, looks pretty accurate.
I’d say dusty and Rance deserve their own top tier of our list. Legit once in a generation players and shoe ins to be in our greatest ever side.
Yep agree with that.
I reckon to be classed as A+, you have to be in the top couple of players in the league in that position.
ie- Dusty is easily in the top 3 midfielders in the comp...with maybe Dangerfield and Fyfe his equal. Then it’s the rest...
And Rance is the best full back in the league by miles.
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This is how I rate our list- and I have rated them compared to opposition players in their positions.
(And with some of the young ones, it’s how I rate them now from what I have seen at AFL level)
A grade- Dusty, Rance, Jack, Cotch, Grimes, Edwards, Vlastuin
B grade- Prestia, Lambert, Caddy, Stack
C grade- Astbury, George, Nank, Baker, Graham, Bolton, Broad, Short, McIntosh, Rioli, Houli, Higgins, Pickett
D grade- Soldo, Markov, Ross, Balta, CCJ, DES
E grade- Naish- need to see more
No good- Garthwaite
Bit harsh on a few there
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Pathetic and disgraceful list assessment.
Grimes, Prestia and Vlastuin are all A grade.
Cotchin is not. B+ at best.
Houli B+ surely.
Lambert B at least.
Rating Pickett higher than Prestia and Houli HAHA.
LIST BREAKDOWN
A: Martin, Cotchin, Rance, Lynch, Riewoldt
B+: Grimes
B: Edwards, Astbury, Rioli, Nankervis, Pickett (on talent)
B-: Prestia, Houli, Lambert
C+: Vlastuin, Castagna, Short, Caddy, McIntosh, Broad, Soldo
C: Markov, Aarts
C-: Nil
Developing*: Higgins, Graham, Balta, Stack, Naish, RCD, Ross
Developing: Bolton, Chol, CCJ, Garthwaite, DES, Miller, English, Baker, Turner
Developing* refers to players 21 years or under with the potential to become A or B- grade players in the future.
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Cotchin is not. B+ at best.
So...don't watch much football then? :shh
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I tend to believe that at this stage of his career Cotchin has a very limited amount he can draw from the well in any season.
So he can still get to that A/A+ level, but maybe only for 3-4 games a season. The rest he has to manage himself, and canter through.
Especially his 2nd Q v Brisbane in the Qualifying, or even his efforts v North when they spanked us earlier this year.
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That's an A-grader in my book...B-graders might get to that level 3-4 times over their entire career let alone still manage it 3-4 times every season and in finals at the tail end of their career... :shh
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Cotch has sacrificed his game for the betterment of the team. No doubt he could still be that high volume disposal player but he’s seen that he needs to give up some of this to contribute elsewhere.
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A half production game by Cotchin is better then 3/4 of the competitions midfielders.
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A half production game by Cotchin is better then 3/4 of the competitions midfielders.
Correct
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Haven’t been Edwards biggest fan over the journey but a Bs a bit low
Hands up here too, ive been fairly critical of areas of his game but even i would give him a B+.Rating
Not sure what boxes Rioli ticks to warrant that rating.
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Haven’t been Edwards biggest fan over the journey but a Bs a bit low
Hands up here too, ive been fairly critical of areas of his game but even i would give him a B+.Rating
Not sure what boxes Rioli ticks to warrant that rating.
Hot Mrs, some additional output for September, and a surname steeped in successful history.
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Did anyone see this article? I don’t have the link but based on what was copied onto reddit it goes like this:
Here's the full article:
Bucky: Next generation can keep Tigers at top
Gary Buckenara
Herald Sun
26 October 2019
Do we classify two premierships in three years as a dynasty? If not, the Tigers are very close to establishing one.
Richmond is a powerhouse both on and off the field, and the Tigers are the team to beat in 2020 and for the foreseeable future given the strength and depth of talent on their list. While there are never any guarantees in footy and it only takes a slight drop in preparation or mindset to come back to the field, this team has the weapons to win multiple premierships over the next 3-5 years.
The beauty of the Tigers’ list is its superstars are still in their prime, with Jack Riewoldt (31 this month), Alex Rance (30) and Trent Cotchin (30 in April) the oldest of a group that includes Dustin Martin (28), Tom Lynch (26 this month), Dylan Grimes (28) and Dion Prestia (27).
Richmond has done well to take full advantage of free agency to add talent to their list while at the same time investing in the draft to bring in top-end young talent and that has the club well set-up both for the present and the future.
While there are the stars of the now — Martin, Cotchin etc — there are seven players aged 21 or under with the talent to develop into A or B-grade players in the future. The list is led by the likes of Noah Balta who I talked up in the pre-season and is just scratching the surface of what he’s capable of, Sydney Stack who I had rated at the 36th best player in last year’s draft and Jack Higgins who likely would have been a premiership player this year if it wasn’t for that serious health scare. I also like Riley Collier-Dawkins who I had rated as the 15th-best player in last year’s draft but he slipped to the Tigers at pick 20.
Most counted the Tigers out of the premiership race following Rance’s torn anterior cruciate ligament in Round 1, the strength and depth of the backline was able to cover him. Grimes, David Astbury, Bachar Houli, Nick Vlastuin, Jayden Short and later, Liam Baker, did a brilliant job and the flexibility of each of those players to play different roles meant coach Damien Hardwick had the ability to make moves mid-game if something wasn’t working.
Versatility is one of Richmond’s biggest strengths and has been an area Hardwick has made a point of improving to further strengthen his list and give himself more options when injuries strike mid-game or players are out of form. We saw that with Josh Caddy, who has been a very good goalkicking half-forward but was developed this year as a defensive midfielder, and Baker moving from a small forward to small defender.
These tweaks provide valuable flexibility and their true value isn’t realised until the Tigers need to call upon it in-game when there’s an injury or plan A hasn’t worked. Having multiple players you can throw into different roles that aren’t foreign to them is invaluable. It’s a seamless transition. Shane Edwards is another good example — he was used across half-back when Short was injured earlier in the year.
But what really sets the Tigers apart, aside from their obvious on-field talent, is the mental side of their game and the culture that has been established both within the playing group and wider football department.
Football clubs need a “we first” mentality rather than “me first” and Richmond has absolutely nailed it and been the leaders in creating such a strong team culture that other clubs, including Collingwood, have tried to emulate. Successfully building that culture and standard has given the Tigers that extra 1 per cent that every club is looking for to give it that competitive advantage.
It’s one of the reasons why they’ve been so dominant since 2017.
LIST NEEDS
In recent drafts (and free agency periods) the Tigers have taken steps to shore up their key-position stocks for the future to begin planning for life after the likes of Rance, Riewoldt and Astbury. One possible hole I see is in the ruck and concerns over the durability of Toby Nankervis. Ivan Soldo did well to cover for him this year and they played in the same team on Grand Final day, but is this sustainable going forward? Mabior Chol also showed some exciting signs but he is more of a forward, while Callum Coleman-Jones is a developing forward-ruck who has shown some signs in the VFL but is still learning his craft.
LIST BREAKDOWN
A: Dustin Martin, Trent Cotchin, Alex Rance, Tom Lynch, Jack Riewoldt
B+: Dylan Grimes
B: Shane Edwards, David Astbury, Daniel Rioli, Toby Nankervis, Marlion Pickett (on talent)
B-: Dion Prestia, Bachar Houli, Kane Lambert
C+: Nick Vlastuin, Jason Castagna, Jayden Short, Josh Caddy, Kamdyn McIntosh, Nathan Broad, Ivan Soldo
C: Oleg Markov, Jake Aarts
C-: Nil
Developing*: Jack Higgins, Jack Graham, Noah Balta, Sydney Stack, Patrick Naish, Riley Collier-Dawkins, Jack Ross
Developing: Shai Bolton, Mabior Chol, Callum Coleman-Jones, Ryan Garthwaite, Derek Eggmolesse-Smith, Ben Miller, Luke English, Liam Baker, Fraser Turner
Please note: Developing* refers to players aged 21 or under with the potential to become A or B-grade players in the future.
DRAFT STRATEGY
The Tigers will have four picks inside the top 41 at the national draft, which is very handy for a team that has just won its second premiership in three years. The strength of this draft is good, with the top 35-40 picks to unearth some very good players for the future. This is a midfielders’ draft so expect the Tigers to add some players with pace and who use the ball well, while they might look for a nice rebound defender given Houli is getting towards the end of his career, Markov hasn’t quite come on as hoped and Connor Menadue has been delisted. I’d also look at an experienced ruckman from a state league just to add ruck depth.
CRYSTAL BALL
The Tigers are the team to beat in 2020 with only bad luck with injury and/or a lack of desire the enemy for this group. Losing the hunger is very unlikely as the players have formed a close bond and have been able to maintain their focus for three seasons now, which is a credit to the leadership both on and off the field and dedication to team success shown by the players.
https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/expert-opinion/gary-buckenara/gary-buckenara-analyses-richmonds-list-after-the-2019-season/news-story/5dac325bc85f0acca59c5cec063bee06
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The A-Grader Ladder
HB Meyers
themongrelpunt.com
October 28, 2019
In order to give some context, here’s the simple formula I’ve used. A current A-Grader nets three points. A potential A-Grader nets one point. A player who was highly regarded, and possibly an A-Grader that has fallen away a bit nets minus one point.
1st RICHMOND – 25 points
CURRENT A-GRADERS:
Dustin Martin, Tom Lynch, Dylan Grimes, Alex Rance, Dion Prestia, Bachar Houli, Nick Vlastuin, Jack Riewoldt
POTENTIAL A-GRADERS:
Sydney Stack, Shai Bolton
DOWNGRADED:
Trent Cotchin
Yeah, I know you’re all going to jump on the downgrade of Cotchin, as opposed to celebrating the fact that your list, top to bottom, is great. It’s the nature of the beast, isn’t it?
Well, I suppose I should defend it. Cotchin is not the player he was a few years ago. Yes, he is still a great leader, as evidenced by his attack on the body of Shane Mumford in the Grand Final. That tackle set the tone for the Tigers, but in terms of what he produces from a pure footy standpoint, he’s nowhere near the player he once was.
Lynch bounced back to great form in no uncertain terms, and Riewoldt retains his elite status despite a disappointing year. He is 12 months removed from a Coleman Medal. The re-introduction of Alex Rance into this team is a scary proposition in 2020, and whilst some may scoff at the inclusion of both Sydney Stack and Shai Bolton as potential A-Graders, to that I say you don’t watch enough Richmond games.
Stack is as hard as nails, and will develop to be the kind of player that puts the fear of what’s coming into the hearts of opponents waiting under a footy. Bolton’s change of direction is elite – I am unsure there is a better, quicker and more effective change of direction in the comp. He becomes the long term replacement for Shane Edwards, who was unlucky not to be included in the A-Grade category as well.
Read the full article here: https://themongrelpunt.com/afl-season-2020/2019/10/28/the-a-grader-ladder/
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The A-Grader Ladder
This is an accurate assessment of our list imo.
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Yeah he clearly doesn't watch Cotchin either. :shh
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After the year Edwards just had, and the past 3 for that matter, how anyone can not put him in the A grade category tells me that they don’t watch enough of our games.
Eddy was as good and as important as any Tiger this year imo.
I swear a lot of these media guys simply looks at stats to make their judgements.
Cotch and Edwards are probably the best examples of that- both don’t get big numbers but both do things that don’t necessarily get stats.
Both would be first picked in our premiership teams which tells you straight away they are both A graders.