Author Topic: Australian Politics thread [merged]  (Read 747957 times)

Offline Francois Jackson

  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 13490
Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5460 on: September 16, 2020, 06:22:09 PM »
great read for a different perspective other. Whichever fence you sit down Andrews and Mikakos are toxic lying peaces of scum, which in a nutshell describes the party formerly known as ALP.

https://www.afr.com/policy/economy/victoria-has-locked-itself-into-a-lockdown-blunder-20200916-p55w1z?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=nc&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR1HhQ27wejy3DHZ3q3p1kteS2kT7M_knaDQ6oUvcAZK1PU-LpI2aFDenAI#Echobox=1600242122


Why I quit rather than be silenced: Vic Treasury insider

A former Victorian Treasury economist explains how he quit to keep speaking out against policy blunders.

Sanjeev Sabhlok

Last week I quit my job as an economist in the Victorian Department of Finance and Treasury so that I would be free to speak out against the state’s management of the COVID-19 infection.

I had made a number of criticisms of the state government on social media. The head of human relations at Treasury asked me to remove them. I considered deleting the few direct criticisms, but they wanted all indirect criticism removed too. I resigned on the same day, the only honourable course for a free citizen of Australia. I never dreamed I would see some of the tactics being used to defend the state’s health.

The pandemic policies being pursued in Australia – particularly in Victoria – are the most heavy-handed possible, a sledgehammer to kill a swarm of flies. These policies are having hugely adverse economic, social and health effects, with the poorer sections of the community that don’t have the ability to work from home suffering the most.

Australia is signalling to the world that it is closed for business and doesn’t care for human freedoms. This will dampen business investment but also impact future skilled migration, the education industry and tourism.

The whole thing hinges on the scare created by politicians and health professionals. For instance, Victoria’s Chief Health Officer Brett Sutton claims this is the “greatest public health challenge since the Spanish flu”.

But this is no Spanish flu – we can verify that easily.

The Spanish flu killed at least 50 million people worldwide in 1918 when the global population was 1.8 billion. Proportionately, to be as lethal as Spanish flu, a virus would have to kill at least 210 million people today. Instead, only around 0.9 million have died so far (compare this also with the 60 million who ordinarily die each year).

What about a second wave? There has never been a second wave hundreds of times bigger than the first. We can be reasonably certain that while this virus may create further ripples, its ultimate magnitude will end up in the range of the 1957 Asian flu.

The need for good policy process does not disappear just because we face a public health crisis.

But even if the pandemic had been as big as the Spanish flu, lockdowns could never have been justified. There are strong scientific arguments against lockdowns too.

So what should the government have done? The data were clear from February itself that the elderly are many times more vulnerable to a serious outcome than the young. It was necessary, therefore, to work out a targeted age-based strategy and start aggressively protecting and isolating the elderly, even as the rest of the population was advised on relevant precautions. But that wasn’t done.

The need for good policy process does not disappear just because we face a public health crisis. In fact, it gets even more urgent.

The Victorian Guide to Regulation notes that “It is not possible for governments to provide a completely ‘risk free’ society, or to prevent every possible event that might cause harm”. Further: “The direct and indirect costs imposed by regulatory approaches may not be … immediately obvious. Risk regulation that is poorly targeted or costly will divert resources from other priorities.”

Governments back in February needed to commission a cost-benefit analysis of alternative policy options that took into account different scenarios (such as with and without a vaccine). Thereafter, the best option had to be picked given the uncertainty, but consistent also with the need to intrude minimally into human freedoms. This cost-benefit analysis and policies needed then to be updated as new information emerged (such as the fact that epidemiological models have badly exaggerated the risk).

Governments should have also realised at the outset that they are hostage to chronic groupthink and actively sought alternative advice. I attempted repeatedly to raise my voice within my public sector role, but my attempts were rebuffed. The bureaucracy has clamped down on frank and fearless, impartial advice, in a misplaced determination to support whatever the government decides, (instead of performing its taxpayer-funded duty of providing forthright analysis of alternatives).

While there is scientific argument against lockdowns, there are divergent views on matters such as the effectiveness of masks. I am a mask fanatic but there was never any reason to mandate these debatable requirements. Voluntary, performance-based rules would allow the private sector to innovate, leaving people with the power of agency, to determine their own fate – thereby minimising economic harm, and harm to mental health and general well-being.

Ending the daily news conference would send a better message from Premier Daniel Andrews.

How unlocked Victoria can learn to live with the virus
Premier Daniel Andrews: The Victorian road map is transparent and does not assume the virus will follow our timetable.

So what happens now? Billions of dollars in income and wealth have been wiped out in the name of a virus that is no worse than the Asian flu and which can (even now) be managed by isolating the elderly and taking a range of voluntary, innovative measures. All the border closures, all the lockdowns, all the curfews in Melbourne will not eradicate the virus from planet Earth.

The problem for politicians now is to reverse course without losing their job. I don’t know how they plan to do it but if they don’t do it sooner rather than later the damage to Australia’s future would have become so great it would undo the good work of decades of reform.
Currently a member of the Roupies, and employed by the great man Roup.

Offline Francois Jackson

  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 13490
Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5461 on: September 24, 2020, 08:31:27 AM »
This isnt going to script for the ALP. :lol I thoughts unions were supposed to back this party. Not only is she disgusting to look at, but we still have to hear more of her lies that have crushed this state.

 https://www.heraldsun.com.au/coronavirus/leading-health-union-calls-for-premier-to-sack-clueless-health-minister-mikakos/news-story/cce126206c9c3eed5a30da3bce9192eb

Leading health union calls for Premier to sack ‘clueless’ Health Minister Mikakos

A leading health union is calling on Daniel Andrews to axe his “clueless” Health Minister, accusing Jenny Mikakos of “breathtaking incompetence” which they say all Victorians are now paying for amid our crippling second coronavirus wave.

A leading health union is calling on Daniel Andrews to sack his “clueless” Health Minister Jenny Mikakos, accusing her of “breathtaking incompetence”.

Ahead of the embattled health minister’s appearance at the hotel quarantine inquiry on Thursday, Health Workers Union boss Diana Asmar has begged the Premier to demand Ms Mikakos’s resignation.

“For the good of your government, for the good of health workers I represent, and for the good of all Victorians, Ms Mikakos must go,” she wrote in a letter to Mr Andrews on Wednesday.

She said that in all the union’s dealings with the health minister, “not once has she displayed even a basic understanding of her portfolio.”

The 16,000 strong union, which represents hospital and aged-care workers, has been battling the government over inadequate supplies of protective equipment for its members.

But now it has declared war on the Andrews Government over its decision to rebuild the Frankston Hospital as a public-private partnership, saying it will campaign against the Labor Party at the next election.

“In Victoria, aged care cleaners, admin workers and cooks have acquired covid, as have registered nurses and patient care workers,” Ms Asmar wrote, “yet aged care workers are treated differently with respect to accessing sufficient levels” of protective equipment.

Accusing Ms Mikakos of ignoring warnings over shortages, Ms Asmar claims “more deaths in Victorian aged care homes will ensue” unless the government changes the way it distributes it.

Saying she “was accustomed to dealing with individuals who display pomposity and arrogance, even when their ability does not warrant it”, Ms Asmar denied the call was the result of a personality clash between the pair.

“This is entirely about Ms Mikakos’ competence as your Health Minister, which is at the heart of your government’s response to this current pandemic,” she said.

Describing her office as “utterly dysfunctional” Ms Asmar said that since Ms Mikakos had become minister after the 2018 election “we have seen repeated mismanagement” of the Victorian health system.

“All Victorians are seemingly paying a price for her incompetence, ” she said.

Ms Asmar said the “final straw” for the union had been a meeting on Monday to discuss the Frankston Hospital rebuild at which she said the minister had delivered “scripted notes” and failed to answer simple questions.

“She had no understanding of the difference between clinical roles and non-clinical roles within a hospital, nor could she comprehend the details of the PPP proposal,” she said.

“This hazy blankness displayed by Ms Mikakos about the Victorian health system also occurred in our first ‘meet and greet’ in early 2019.

“You’d think after 18 months she’d have gained some understanding of her portfolio, given its significance” but “she is still clueless”.

Currently a member of the Roupies, and employed by the great man Roup.

Offline Francois Jackson

  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 13490
Currently a member of the Roupies, and employed by the great man Roup.


Offline Francois Jackson

  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 13490
Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5464 on: September 26, 2020, 07:05:38 AM »
This inquiry is nothing else but a way for Andrews and his team to avoid a Royal Commission which may come.

As hopeless as a RC can be there is no way they would get away with a lack of cross examination and the blatant lies, that they have done. The fact that Moses guy had to fight tooth and nail to ask 2 simple questions is laughable. The questions asked by that hopeless woman were all closed questions.

Yet the public are supposed to accept it. This won’t be going away until heads roll.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.theage.com.au/politics/victoria/doubt-thrown-on-mikakos-inquiry-evidence-as-trades-hall-backs-asmar-20200925-p55zae.html?fbclid=IwAR39dWLRKYvDEuMtFdszSR0lrCm9NLHTkSXV8NcAMINc8E_V7hllYDACpvQ
Currently a member of the Roupies, and employed by the great man Roup.

Offline 1965

  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 5576
  • Don't water the rocks
Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5465 on: September 26, 2020, 07:51:42 AM »
The hunt for someone to blame for the quarantine stuff up will, rightly, continue.

Looking forward two things need to happen to ensure this never happens again.
The quarantine system needs to be properly run, funded and regulated. The Victorian government has already done this.
Secondly the aged care system urgently needs to be properly funded and regulated. The Victorian government can't do this. It is the responsibility of the Federal government.

The bloodlust for someone to blame has focused on the Victorian government. But the virus spread through the aged care system because it was badly regulated and funded.

Dan Andrews has accepted responsibility and has apologised for the quarantine stuff up.

Scott Morrison should do the same for the aged care system that allowed the virus to spread and take so many lives.

Offline Francois Jackson

  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 13490
Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5466 on: September 26, 2020, 08:14:35 AM »
accountable, Andrews how?

more like he is now throwing mikakos under the bus? Easy to blame an immigrant, than accept responsibility as ceo.

On the 6th August he said he is accountable for any mistakes here so why now is he deflecting.

I have long held the view Andrews will not contest the next election, and will give someone else a full year to prepare and contest it. Bracks and the O'farrell left office for a lot less and of course no deaths.  Police stationed outside his house in Mulgrave every day is no way to live, and this wont go away until heads roll starting with his and Mikakos.




Currently a member of the Roupies, and employed by the great man Roup.

Offline 1965

  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 5576
  • Don't water the rocks
Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5467 on: September 26, 2020, 08:26:00 AM »
And your view on Morrison's culpability?

Offline Francois Jackson

  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 13490
Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5468 on: September 26, 2020, 09:49:09 AM »
Mikakos is gone, so that is one scapegoat gone for Comrade.

ALP imploding
Currently a member of the Roupies, and employed by the great man Roup.

Offline Francois Jackson

  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 13490
Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5469 on: September 26, 2020, 09:53:42 AM »
And your view on Morrison's culpability?

zero, no such issues in any other state. Though if you ask me about nsw state government and the ruby princess handling by them that is a different story.

Even that in comparison to andrews team is pittance.

Currently a member of the Roupies, and employed by the great man Roup.

Offline 1965

  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 5576
  • Don't water the rocks
Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5470 on: September 26, 2020, 04:24:01 PM »



Long article but worth a read. (Some excerpts below)


https://www.theage.com.au/national/why-the-other-premiers-all-want-daniel-andrews-to-succeed-20200925-p55zbx.html



Andrews did not appreciate being told by Scott Morrison that NSW has the gold standard for testing and tracing the virus. But the Premier has acknowledged the essential truth behind that prime ministerial sledge. He accepts that Victoria’s centralised health system, with its Charlotte’s web of bureaucrats with little medical experience, and no clear chain of command between them, was simply not built for a pandemic.


The acknowledgement has come in the lightning-quick reinvention of that system in NSW’s image. Three suburban hubs for contact tracing will open next week in Melbourne’s west, north-west and in the south-east. A further two hubs are to be announced.
Victoria’s willingness to adapt, although not perfect, contrasts with the approach of the Morrison government in its direct line of responsibility, aged care. There hasn’t been an equivalent reimagining of the Commonwealth’s privatised system where up to 100 residents a week were being killed by COVID-19 at the peak of the Victorian outbreak. Remember, aged care has been at the epicentre of both coronavirus waves in Australia and is linked to 60 per cent of all deaths in NSW, and 80 per cent of the much larger toll in Victoria.

Offline 1965

  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 5576
  • Don't water the rocks
Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5471 on: September 26, 2020, 04:28:56 PM »

zero, no such issues in any other state.



Long article but worth a read. (Some excerpts below)

https://www.theage.com.au/national/why-the-other-premiers-all-want-daniel-andrews-to-succeed-20200925-p55zbx.html



Andrews did not appreciate being told by Scott Morrison that NSW has the gold standard for testing and tracing the virus. But the Premier has acknowledged the essential truth behind that prime ministerial sledge. He accepts that Victoria’s centralised health system, with its Charlotte’s web of bureaucrats with little medical experience, and no clear chain of command between them, was simply not built for a pandemic.

The acknowledgement has come in the lightning-quick reinvention of that system in NSW’s image. Three suburban hubs for contact tracing will open next week in Melbourne’s west, north-west and in the south-east. A further two hubs are to be announced.
Victoria’s willingness to adapt, although not perfect, contrasts with the approach of the Morrison government in its direct line of responsibility, aged care. There hasn’t been an equivalent reimagining of the Commonwealth’s privatised system where up to 100 residents a week were being killed by COVID-19 at the peak of the Victorian outbreak. Remember, aged care has been at the epicentre of both coronavirus waves in Australia and is linked to 60 per cent of all deaths in NSW, and 80 per cent of the much larger toll in Victoria.

Offline Francois Jackson

  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 13490
Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5472 on: September 26, 2020, 05:43:57 PM »
mate what is with the double posts? you forgetting things to like your comrades.

Look if it wasn't for ALP victoria there would be no second wave. No matter which way you dress it up that is an absolute FACT!

That is why the health minister has quit in shame today, and why andrews through her under the bus despite claiming he was totally accountable. Your dislike in scomo doesnt hide from the fact that all this noise just ensures a smooth ride to yet another 4 years for him.

Currently a member of the Roupies, and employed by the great man Roup.

Offline Andyy

  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 8894
Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5473 on: September 26, 2020, 05:58:14 PM »
mate what is with the double posts? you forgetting things to like your comrades.

Look if it wasn't for ALP victoria there would be no second wave. No matter which way you dress it up that is an absolute FACT!

That is why the health minister has quit in shame today, and why andrews through her under the bus despite claiming he was totally accountable. Your dislike in scomo doesnt hide from the fact that all this noise just ensures a smooth ride to yet another 4 years for him.



Easy to play on disaster.

How do you know a liberal government would have done better?

Not happy myself, just asking. Easy to point the finger with hindsight.

Offline Francois Jackson

  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 13490
Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5474 on: September 27, 2020, 08:41:41 PM »
mate what is with the double posts? you forgetting things to like your comrades.

Look if it wasn't for ALP victoria there would be no second wave. No matter which way you dress it up that is an absolute FACT!

That is why the health minister has quit in shame today, and why andrews through her under the bus despite claiming he was totally accountable. Your dislike in scomo doesnt hide from the fact that all this noise just ensures a smooth ride to yet another 4 years for him.



Easy to play on disaster.

How do you know a liberal government would have done better?

Not happy myself, just asking. Easy to point the finger with hindsight.

That point holds no value Andy, today or ever. Who coulda woulda shoulda done a better job is not even worth discussing with so much carnage, and death.

I actually think if we had a premier who wasn't such a control freak this wouldn't have happened. That goes for both sides of parliament.

The evidence is clear as to what type of person he is.

This inquiry is nothing short of a farce, and was created to avoid a Royal Commission where they could be cross examined. The fact they could call judge Coates later if they recalled something how disgraceful this bloke is.




Currently a member of the Roupies, and employed by the great man Roup.