Show Faith??

[Moi]

Should Terry show faith in some of the senior players who haven't been playing well this year, ie Tivendale etc. or start dropping players back to the seconds?  Methinks it's time for a couple, although I probably would send Tivvas back first and maybe Krak.  Not that Tivvas was woeful today, it's just that he hasn't seemed to have hit any "real" and "consistent" form this year.  Just figure it can't be just the kids that take the heat after losses like that.  Did anyone in the 2s play well enough to get promoted?

[JohnF]

I'm happy to keep Krakouer in the firsts on the condition that he does 3 gym sessions per week. if that condition isn't met I'm happy to never see him play in the firsts again.

I reckon Simmonds is close to getting dropped.

[mightytiges]

Tivs is at least getting the footy the last two weeks. If at the end of year we don't think he is the player to take us to a flag then trade him as he would have value. Krakouer is struggling. He's only had one decent game in five. Coburg plays tomorrow so there's an opportunity for someone to make a claim for a senior spot. Hyde will obviously have to be replaced  . Given that I wouldn't be surprised if Terry holds the current team together. One loss (granted we were blown out of the water by a class act) isn't exactly panic stations especially on the back of 3 straight wins.

The finger after today needs to be pointed at Richo, Simmonds and Browny. As team leaders they needed to stand up and wave the flag when the side is under seige. Poor efforts from our VC, DVC and prized recruit. Richo and Simmonds should have had too much height and strength for the Saints defence but we didn't see that at all today. In fact the Saint defenders ran off them with ease. Add to that not one goal (4 behinds) from the two big guys.

[Bulluss]

What about Chaffey?

I would rather see us go with Tuck as our number one tagger, even Hyde can play that role.

Chaffey is just down right pathetic and shouldnt be playing league footy.

[WilliamPowell]

The finger after today needs to be pointed at Richo, Simmonds and Browny. As team leaders they needed to stand up and wave the flag when the side is under seige. Poor efforts from our VC, DVC and prized recruit.

A bit harsh on Richo there MT I reckon. From where I was sitting (between far too many Saints supporters) I thought his work rate was very very good. The delivery to him was pathetic - with the usual suspects showcasing their deplorable skills but he didn't drop his head and he ran and chased all night. Simmonds was a disappointment - for a man on his considerable size he should crash packs (ala Hamill).

As for Browny - as acting captain he needed to show more and he didn't. I was surprised the number of times he kicked with his right foot which made me think he may have been injured.

And let's not leave out our other DVC - Mr Bowden - a shocker, it was like those bad bad days. Can anyone tell me why he is kicking those little chip passes instead of kicking it long?

[mightytiges]

The finger after today needs to be pointed at Richo, Simmonds and Browny. As team leaders they needed to stand up and wave the flag when the side is under seige. Poor efforts from our VC, DVC and prized recruit.

A bit harsh on Richo there MT I reckon. From where I was sitting (between far too many Saints supporters) I thought his work rate was very very good. The delivery to him was pathetic - with the usual suspects showcasing their deplorable skills but he didn't drop his head and he ran and chased all night.

Yeah maybe I was harsh on Richo in terms of his workrate and the rubbish that was delivered in his direction WP but a forward is there to kick goals and Richo missed all 3 chances he had in the first half when we needed vital goals.

Mind you he wasn't Robinson Crusoe at goalkicking yesterday. In the first 5 minutes of the game - Richo missed, Cogs failed to make the distance from inside 50 (how many times did that happen with Richmond players  ) and Staff goaled before the Saints looked like scoring. We could have been 2-3 goals up. Once the Saints goaled and then goaled again to take the lead it was good night.

[cub]

There was one stage in the 3rd Qtr where the ball was passed to Krak - It was all his if he wanted it but just seemed to be going half hearted - A Saints player swooped in like it was a crucial possesion in the closing minutes of a Grand Final.

We and especially Players like Krak need to develop this hunger instead of just going about business. How TW instills this hunger is beyond me maybe make these players go back and EARN thier spots at Coburg. If they dont perform Coburg seconds it is and They do not get back into the seniors until they show they have the Hunger NOT the potential.

This goes for the whole group not just Krak - He just stood out in my mind due to that passage of play yesterday.

Go Tigers 

[julzqld]

Not to mention all those snaps that Browny had that just resulted in points.  I thought at one stage that Simmonds wasn't playing at all - there was so little vision on him.  I didn't see all of those goals Richo missed but I did see him hard at chasing the ball.  

[letsgetiton!]

richo busted his guts but once again our inside fiftey entries' dispospasla was pathetic!
simmonds was many times clear alone and wasnt used, they kept on bombing it to richo and stafford!
krak must not have been right, he just seemed slow and asleep, maybe was illl i dont know.
cogs disposal is normally gr8 , last night he stuffed up.
we won the clearances, he had more contested marks, we matched them for inside 50s, we won more contested ball, we won the hard ball gets. we just had more clangers and turnovers and they killed us on the rebound with their disposal and thats because of this bs zone defence style of play.  when we played man on man, (not that often i maught add) we caused them to make errors and beat them, then we would turn it over and they would get it fwd real quick and punish us!


ok


for next week


these names have to go to coburb!

TIVERS....23 touches and stuffed nearly all of them up!
Chaffey.... just hopeless, i have never rated him and never will, get back to baseball!
Hall.......... pathetic, poor excuse for a footballer, thank god last week freo never kicked the ball to   pavlova!
Krak......... just needs a run in the 2s for confidence
Joel ......... punishment for not sticking to the game plan again!

what we need to do!

jackson.... give him more midfield game time! he killed them in the middle when he was there
simmonds...play him as a ruck rover, jim stynes like, he is athletic and would be a big body in the packs! no ruck rover would be able to match up on him
Shultz....... bring him back , play him at ff, knobel and staff to alternate ruck and pocket duties
tambling.... bring him in , play him ff
meyer........ as above
morrison......just give him a go at chb!
Raines........give him more on ball time and not bench time


just some ideas

btw the team must learn how to fricken tackle properly, we are still th eweakest team inth eafkl and worst at pinning blokes down, its a damn joke , and we myust learn to gang tackle and hunt in numbers as the saints do!

[Tiv]

for next week


these names have to go to coburb!

TIVERS....23 touches and stuffed nearly all of them up!

X, our battle regarding Tivers continues...you just won't let go hey?

Anyway, here are his stats, and I can honestly say his passing on Sunday was very good and with both feet ( two passes with his right on the run hit their target).
 23 Disposals, 21 effective, what bloody game were you watching?
 
Tivers Stats

Kicks: 16
Effective: 14
Ineffective: 2
Handballs: 7
Effective: 7
Ineffective: 0
Total Disposals: 23
Effective: 21
Ineffective: 2

[Harry]

How can some people criticise Bowden ?  IMO he was one of our best.  What little chip kicks are people referring to?  Or do we want him to bomb it blindly to contests?  Bowden is probably the only player who tries to create, tries to hold possession, and tries to bring his teamates into the game.  This is what TW wants from all his players, possession, precise, creative football, not bomb and hope.  Also, you can't possibly blame Richo.

If people are looking for scapegoats then i'll point you in the right direction -> Chaffey (pathetic), Krakouer (bludger), Simmonds (can't move), Kellaway (too slow in mind and foot), Graham, Pettifer (doesn't have what it takes).  Other borderline players are Tiva, Gas, and Hal. 

Also if we are gonna throw criticisms left right and centre, a few should go to Cogs and Tuck.  Sure they win the hard ball and all, but their kicking at times is just dreadful.

[bg25]

How can some people criticise Bowden ?  IMO he was one of our best.  What little chip kicks are people referring to?  Or do we want him to bomb it blindly to contests?  Bowden is probably the only player who tries to create, tries to hold possession, and tries to bring his teamates into the game.  This is what TW wants from all his players, possession, precise, creative football, not bomb and hope.  Also, you can't possibly blame Richo.

Took the words out of my mouth Harry. I must admit I was surprised to read the criticisms, even more so after I forced myself to watch the replay. I would have thought Joel was following the game plan most precisely, hitting a target and running hard to the next contest to receive, thereby moving the ball about 70 - 80 metres downfield rather than bomb it straight to their loose man waiting on our half forward line, helllo Tiv and Chaff.

Also noticed that TW was using Joel to try and stop leaks all over the field - half back, half fwd and the mid field. i also thought that Richo was working to plan and prepared to sacrifice his game by running hard and moving his players out of Staff's way....the man never stops running.

Everyone is quick to praise Cogs (and I love him) but his disposal on Sunday was awful..he gifted at least 2 goals to the Saints one from a beautiful handball staight to Dal Santo who ran straight out of the centre. Rule number one dont' handball in the air in the middle unless you're sure it's going to a team mate. His delivery was very ordinary, although he certainly wasn't on his own there.

I sometimes think I must have watched a different game.

[WilliamPowell]

How can some people criticise Bowden ?  IMO he was one of our best.  What little chip kicks are people referring to?  Or do we want him to bomb it blindly to contests?  Bowden is probably the only player who tries to create, tries to hold possession, and tries to bring his teamates into the game.  This is what TW wants from all his players, possession, precise, creative football, not bomb and hope.  Also, you can't possibly blame Richo.

I actually sat down and watch the replay again last night before replying. I will admit that I only watched it a second time until half time but....

Example number 1 - second quarter, surrounded by 3 Saints should have taken the first option and kicked it out long to the wing where I think for memory (this doesn't show on the TV) Simmonds was one out with his opponent. In this case Joel looked to handball or chip kick it and then got tackled forcing the ball free, the ball dribbled to Ball who kicked a goal. At that point we were going OK - couldn't score but was certainly competitive. Costly costly mistake from a leader.

Example 2 in the first he had the ball on the HBF - had the big fellas up around the 50 - chipped kicked it 15 metres to a Tiger player with 4 Saints bearing down. Granted it came off but the next disposal by the player surrounded by the 4 saints resulted in a turnover and saints goal.

Took the words out of my mouth Harry. I must admit I was surprised to read the criticisms, even more so after I forced myself to watch the replay. I would have thought Joel was following the game plan most precisely, hitting a target and running hard to the next contest to receive, thereby moving the ball about 70 - 80 metres downfield rather than bomb it straight to their loose man waiting on our half forward line, helllo Tiv and Chaff.

I know the plan is to run and carry the ball but IMO Joel Bowden serves us better by kicking it further than 20 metres especially if the 20 metre kick is putting his teammate under pressure. The harsh reality is that unlike Joel who is very skillful others in the team are not and sometimes with his choice in disposal you have to wonder if Joel is aware of the lack of skill ??? Granted he is trying to run to the next contest but I reckon sometimes with those chip kicks he creates a far greater chance of a turnover.

Also if we are gonna throw criticisms left right and centre, a few should go to Cogs and Tuck.  Sure they win the hard ball and all, but their kicking at times is just dreadful.

Everyone is quick to praise Cogs (and I love him) but his disposal on Sunday was awful..he gifted at least 2 goals to the Saints one from a beautiful handball staight to Dal Santo who ran straight out of the centre. Rule number one dont' handball in the air in the middle unless you're sure it's going to a team mate. His delivery was very ordinary, although he certainly wasn't on his own there.

I sometimes think I must have watched a different game.

See my new thread called "A is for.............." 

[Harry]

Thanks for your support bg25.

From the very start Terry Wallace has said that he wants the boys playing a free flowing attacking style of game where-by he encourages them to run and carry the ball, playing their own game by taking on their opponents.  He wants them to be confident in their own abilities and doesn't want them to go into their shells despite the opposition and the scoreboard.  He wants them to enjoy their footy and persist with the exciting style of play, and not be afraid of making mistakes.  Joel Bowden is doing exactly what Terry wants - that is he is taking on his opponents, holding posession, running, carrying, being creative, trying to get his teamates into the game, and playing his natural game.  Sometimes this comes unstuck and the ball is turned over but this is maiinly due to the fact that his incompetent teamates are not capable of playing to that level.  This isn't Bowdens fault.  Bowden is doing what he is told, and is not panicking and bombing blindly to contests.    I can see how people can point the finger towards Bowden and say he stuffed up because he is instigating the high risk, creative and attacking passages of play which if they came off would put us in a more dangerous position to score.  He is not opting for the safer option of blindly bombing long to contests or out wide which Terry doesn't want.  He is trying to make things happen and is playing a higher risk game - high risk to fail, but a higher return if it comes off.    We need more players like Bowden, not less.

Where's the criticism of Kellaway who IMO does absolutely nothing.  What is he, a tall back or a running medium small defender?  What is his role?  He never gets a dangerous tall forward, never gets a dangerous small forward, and never gives us any drive out of defence.  He has the easiest gig in the AFL.  He is the invisible man, and as such never gets any criticism.  On Sunday I had a go at Kellaway and some tiger supporter in front of me turned around and said "How dare you have a go at Chubbu?"  So we, as tiger supporters, would prefer a player who doesn't try to instigate anything and goes for 1 or 2 "courageous" marks a game over a player who tries to instigate play, who tries to be creative, who tries to bring his teamates into the game, who tries to give us value for money.

As much as I love Newman, I thought he was much worse than Bowden on the weekend.  It just appears that it's fashionable to bag Bowden who is easily in our top 5 and IMO a much better player and candidate for captain than Johnson.

[WilliamPowell]

As much as I love Newman, I thought he was much worse than Bowden on the weekend. 

There you go Harry - we agree on this point. I thought Newman was terrible and against that little twirp Milne of all people