Author Topic: 2026 Commonwealth Games in Victoria  (Read 5173 times)

Offline WilliamPowell

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Re: 2026 Commonwealth Games in Victoria
« Reply #30 on: July 19, 2023, 10:21:58 AM »

WP

Respect you a lot , but seriously ?


Damo,

my whatever comment was only about the accusation that I "always run cover for 65". That was a cheap shot

That's it.

I will repeat the state has been embarrassed

What has happened yesterday is shambolic and a disgrace.

But the bigger disgrace was agreeing to take the games on in the first place.

It was stupid idea, a costly idea one that with everything else going on Victoria could never afford.

TBBH that's what I'm more peeved about, that they took them on when they couldn't afford it.

So forgive me if I glad they've been cancelled

I get that people hate Andrews with a passion but the facts still remain his government won an election less than 8 months ago in another landslide. Granted the result probably says  more about the opposition than the government

I can only imagine the outcry on here if the games had gone ahead and in 12 months we get told about another government coat blow out, folks would be baying for more blood than they are now.

Financially this State is in precarious position so deciding to not waste billions on the irrelevant Comm games is the right call. It is how it has happened that is the issue. And the how is an embarrassment

Clear enough  :huh
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Online Andyy

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Re: 2026 Commonwealth Games in Victoria
« Reply #31 on: July 19, 2023, 12:14:47 PM »
Reminds me of when the libs committed money to the east-west link, trying to control the state from opposition knowing that they were about to get the ass.

Then complained that Labor wasted all the money lol.

Online Chuck17

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Re: 2026 Commonwealth Games in Victoria
« Reply #32 on: July 19, 2023, 02:37:10 PM »
Dunno if many heard his press conference but what a shocker, full of arrogance and secrets.

Would be incredulous if he won another term in office


Offline Diocletian

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Re: 2026 Commonwealth Games in Victoria
« Reply #33 on: July 19, 2023, 02:39:46 PM »
Most repugnant, disgraceful and arrogant politician I've seen and the most blatantly corrupt state premier since JBP or even Askin....:shh
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Re: 2026 Commonwealth Games in Victoria
« Reply #34 on: July 19, 2023, 04:12:13 PM »
Dunno if many heard his press conference but what a shocker, full of arrogance and secrets.

Would be incredulous if he won another term in office



Didn't see it.

Got a link?

I listen to ABC Radio a bit but otherwise avoid most news.

Offline mightytiges

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Re: 2026 Commonwealth Games in Victoria
« Reply #35 on: July 19, 2023, 05:28:04 PM »
Can read you like a book MT  :shh
Yeah, that's why in your obsession you keep making wrong assumptions about me including my sex and which type of school I went to :rollin. You are so predictable. Don't say boo about LNP stuff ups but run on here frothing from the mouth as soon as it's a Labor stuff up. If hundreds of people were driven to suicide and allegedly up to 2000 died as a result of a Labor government policy illegally and corruptly attacking the most vulnerable in our society, you'd be posting every two mins about it. Yet, we didn't hear boo about the robodebt royal commission findings from you.

https://www.afr.com/companies/sport/not-a-difficult-decision-andrews-scraps-commonwealth-games-20230718-p5dp3f

Great read. The most important thing is how badly other projects were costed. Something the chear leaders haven't mentioned once.. If only 6 weeks ago it was a 2 billion dollar exercise that is now 6 plus I wonder how many other projects have been thrown into chaos . Even Jerome and our Peggy were on this grainy train of close to a mil you would think.

If those that want to go down the robodebt path (rightly so) why wont they also bring up the Victorians governments waste?  :shh :thumbsdown
All projects around the world have been affected by the surge in inflation of the past 18 months. Victoria isn't alone. Having said here's my critique of each major project:

1. Comm Games - Embarrassing but right decision yesterday. The stupidity was agreeing to do it in the first place when no one else wanted it. Andrews has to wear this one. Ego got the better of him and he made someone else's problem his and the state's. 

2. Westgate Tunnel - even without the massive PFAS delays, I don't support inner city tollroads as they don't solve congestion. Why I opposed the dud EWL. Rather had Metro 2 and improved PT to the western suburbs. Still got to appease the road lobby in this state sadly :P

3. Metro Tunnel - at least a year ahead of schedule and possibly 18 months. Potentially completed by late next year if they keep going at this rate. Murdoch media reports are BS. The extra $3b costs reported were because additional and improved infrastructure was added to the original concept such as longer platforms along the metro lines for the longer MHCT high capacity trains (up to 9 cars long), high capacity signalling rather than the old block system so trains can automatically communicate their location inside the tunnel and run closer together (enables 2 min services), etc.

4. NE link - ring road is needed but hello costly retro-fitting in Melbourne! No forward planning from government nor corridors reserved for either rail or road over the previous 50-60 years = $19b fmd! All sides deserve blame given the multi-decade timeframe but it starts with Bolte.

5. Airport link - the problem has always been the government doesn't own/control the airport land and the road lobby (especially taxis) don't want the competition. The original design of the airport had set aside space for a future train station in the centre of the "square-ish bit" between Airport, Melbourne drives and Centre Road. That's why it's designed that way. Of course, the "car is god" mentality of the 70s saw that space taken up by a car park and now on top of that is a hotel. Now everything has to be retro-fitted and there's a barney between having an above ground (state/fed governments) and underground (Airport authority) station. My personal view is the airport should be part of a suburban line that continues on out north of Tullamarine so it has multiple usage but no one else is suggesting that. I think it's been put on the backburner for a year hoping by then this global inflation crisis is no more as correctly predicting and projecting costings for any project right now is futile. No guarantees with that given there's no end in sight in the conflict in Ukraine. 50 years and still waiting :boredom. Again blame on all sides and again starts with Bolte. 

6. Level Xing removal program - ahead of schedule. Promised 50 by the end of the second term and delivered 65. Up to 70 now with another 40 planned or already under construction to go. Godsend in my area.

7. SRL - Fast cross-city transport between major suburbia hubs is needed but hello the need to retro-fit again = going to cost A LOT albeit spread over a generation. Not the reported media figure though which is just again more lazy/agenda driven media BS. The "$200b" figure comes from the Libs sending in their version of the SRL to the PBO which added an imaginary extra 30 years onto the construction timeframe (until 2084 instead of 2053) and included operating costs (which for the eastern section would commence in 2035). The PBO rightly costed this version being an independent body, but it doesn't make it any less made-up (I'm not blaming the PBO for doing their job). 2084 is over 60 years from now. All existing transport infrastructure and operations will need to be replaced and modernised to late 21st century standards by then but we don't lob it all together into one single figure, throw our hands up and not do it (of course we'll be all pushing up daisies by 2084 anyway).


ps. For the record, I don't care which side builds needed transport infrastructure. For instance, the NSW Libs deserve praise for getting on and building the NW Metro a decade ago. Sydney's rail network wasn't neglected and left to rot for decades from the late 1950s like Melbourne's was until more recent times. The only thing Melbourne did better back then than Sydney was keep its tram network.
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Offline mightytiges

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Re: 2026 Commonwealth Games in Victoria
« Reply #36 on: July 20, 2023, 04:25:53 AM »
LMAO - yeah the debt that blew out because of the pandemic measures which the ALP opposition wanted the government to throw even more money at.  :shh
The LNP doubled the debt before the pandemic before doubling it again  :shh. The point being that the idea that the LNP are somehow better economc managers is a complete myth.
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Re: 2026 Commonwealth Games in Victoria
« Reply #37 on: July 20, 2023, 08:25:24 AM »
LMAO - yeah the debt that blew out because of the pandemic measures which the ALP opposition wanted the government to throw even more money at.  :shh
The LNP doubled the debt before the pandemic before doubling it again  :shh. The point being that the idea that the LNP are somehow better economc managers is a complete myth.

It is.

At a federal level my 3yo could have made a surplus during the mining boom/Howards era.

They're largely all quite qualified and generally I reckon they would do as well or poorly as one another, just spending money on different projects to win or keep votes with certain groups.

Online Chuck17

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Re: 2026 Commonwealth Games in Victoria
« Reply #38 on: July 20, 2023, 11:44:36 AM »
Dunno if many heard his press conference but what a shocker, full of arrogance and secrets.

Would be incredulous if he won another term in office



Didn't see it.

Got a link?

I listen to ABC Radio a bit but otherwise avoid most news.

Couldnt find one, maybe a snippet of it here

https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/politics/watch-live-daniel-andrews-tipped-to-scrap-victorias-2026-commonwealth-games/news-story/ef71f713c51eed4fd66938ec1d9c6fba

Online Francois Jackson

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Re: 2026 Commonwealth Games in Victoria
« Reply #39 on: July 20, 2023, 12:29:25 PM »
the best thing to happen here is andrews is handballing it to the equally stupid but more incompetent Jacinta Allan. Lets see how long she lasts in the top job  :lol :lol



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Online Francois Jackson

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Re: 2026 Commonwealth Games in Victoria
« Reply #40 on: July 20, 2023, 04:42:37 PM »
Can read you like a book MT  :shh
Yeah, that's why in your obsession you keep making wrong assumptions about me including my sex and which type of school I went to :rollin. You are so predictable. Don't say boo about LNP stuff ups but run on here frothing from the mouth as soon as it's a Labor stuff up. If hundreds of people were driven to suicide and allegedly up to 2000 died as a result of a Labor government policy illegally and corruptly attacking the most vulnerable in our society, you'd be posting every two mins about it. Yet, we didn't hear boo about the robodebt royal commission findings from you.

https://www.afr.com/companies/sport/not-a-difficult-decision-andrews-scraps-commonwealth-games-20230718-p5dp3f

Great read. The most important thing is how badly other projects were costed. Something the chear leaders haven't mentioned once.. If only 6 weeks ago it was a 2 billion dollar exercise that is now 6 plus I wonder how many other projects have been thrown into chaos . Even Jerome and our Peggy were on this grainy train of close to a mil you would think.

If those that want to go down the robodebt path (rightly so) why wont they also bring up the Victorians governments waste?  :shh :thumbsdown
All projects around the world have been affected by the surge in inflation of the past 18 months. Victoria isn't alone. Having said here's my critique of each major project:

1. Comm Games - Embarrassing but right decision yesterday. The stupidity was agreeing to do it in the first place when no one else wanted it. Andrews has to wear this one. Ego got the better of him and he made someone else's problem his and the state's. 

2. Westgate Tunnel - even without the massive PFAS delays, I don't support inner city tollroads as they don't solve congestion. Why I opposed the dud EWL. Rather had Metro 2 and improved PT to the western suburbs. Still got to appease the road lobby in this state sadly :P

3. Metro Tunnel - at least a year ahead of schedule and possibly 18 months. Potentially completed by late next year if they keep going at this rate. Murdoch media reports are BS. The extra $3b costs reported were because additional and improved infrastructure was added to the original concept such as longer platforms along the metro lines for the longer MHCT high capacity trains (up to 9 cars long), high capacity signalling rather than the old block system so trains can automatically communicate their location inside the tunnel and run closer together (enables 2 min services), etc.

4. NE link - ring road is needed but hello costly retro-fitting in Melbourne! No forward planning from government nor corridors reserved for either rail or road over the previous 50-60 years = $19b fmd! All sides deserve blame given the multi-decade timeframe but it starts with Bolte.

5. Airport link - the problem has always been the government doesn't own/control the airport land and the road lobby (especially taxis) don't want the competition. The original design of the airport had set aside space for a future train station in the centre of the "square-ish bit" between Airport, Melbourne drives and Centre Road. That's why it's designed that way. Of course, the "car is god" mentality of the 70s saw that space taken up by a car park and now on top of that is a hotel. Now everything has to be retro-fitted and there's a barney between having an above ground (state/fed governments) and underground (Airport authority) station. My personal view is the airport should be part of a suburban line that continues on out north of Tullamarine so it has multiple usage but no one else is suggesting that. I think it's been put on the backburner for a year hoping by then this global inflation crisis is no more as correctly predicting and projecting costings for any project right now is futile. No guarantees with that given there's no end in sight in the conflict in Ukraine. 50 years and still waiting :boredom. Again blame on all sides and again starts with Bolte. 

6. Level Xing removal program - ahead of schedule. Promised 50 by the end of the second term and delivered 65. Up to 70 now with another 40 planned or already under construction to go. Godsend in my area.

7. SRL - Fast cross-city transport between major suburbia hubs is needed but hello the need to retro-fit again = going to cost A LOT albeit spread over a generation. Not the reported media figure though which is just again more lazy/agenda driven media BS. The "$200b" figure comes from the Libs sending in their version of the SRL to the PBO which added an imaginary extra 30 years onto the construction timeframe (until 2084 instead of 2053) and included operating costs (which for the eastern section would commence in 2035). The PBO rightly costed this version being an independent body, but it doesn't make it any less made-up (I'm not blaming the PBO for doing their job). 2084 is over 60 years from now. All existing transport infrastructure and operations will need to be replaced and modernised to late 21st century standards by then but we don't lob it all together into one single figure, throw our hands up and not do it (of course we'll be all pushing up daisies by 2084 anyway).


ps. For the record, I don't care which side builds needed transport infrastructure. For instance, the NSW Libs deserve praise for getting on and building the NW Metro a decade ago. Sydney's rail network wasn't neglected and left to rot for decades from the late 1950s like Melbourne's was until more recent times. The only thing Melbourne did better back then than Sydney was keep its tram network.

"if you only knew which school i went to" I believe was your comment back way when. Like a gaf, know or care so my reply was accurate.

Anyway of course you dont care about blowouts as its Victorian blowouts. Ask yourself why our debt is more than any other state?

The payout over this comm games fiasco. Again who cares right. The costing stuff up by Jacinta Allan no biggie right? If she costed this only a few months ago imagine the stuff ups on the projects you have mentioned. :shh

Also if every country faced inflationary issues then every country is in debt as well like ours , or are we alone riddled with debt post covid :shh

Robodebt is in the same category as every other stuff up ANDREWS has done IMO. I suspect the payout of robodebt may match the comm games payout on its own, let alone every other one of his stuff ups which includes ripping up that other billion dollar contract.

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Offline WilliamPowell

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Re: 2026 Commonwealth Games in Victoria
« Reply #41 on: July 20, 2023, 05:52:53 PM »
Sorry Frankie, I'm confused

Are you saying Robodebt is Andrews' stuff up?

It was an illegal federal scheme overseen by former PM Scomo

Or have I read your comment wrong?

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Offline 1965

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Re: 2026 Commonwealth Games in Victoria
« Reply #42 on: July 20, 2023, 06:55:42 PM »
I don't think that's what FJ meant. More a comment on the relative costs. Just ignore the suicides Robodebt caused.

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Re: 2026 Commonwealth Games in Victoria
« Reply #43 on: July 20, 2023, 11:57:21 PM »
I don't think that's what FJ meant. More a comment on the relative costs. Just ignore the suicides Robodebt caused.

Here he is

Offline mightytiges

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Re: 2026 Commonwealth Games in Victoria
« Reply #44 on: August 04, 2023, 07:29:40 PM »
Can read you like a book MT  :shh
Yeah, that's why in your obsession you keep making wrong assumptions about me including my sex and which type of school I went to :rollin. You are so predictable. Don't say boo about LNP stuff ups but run on here frothing from the mouth as soon as it's a Labor stuff up. If hundreds of people were driven to suicide and allegedly up to 2000 died as a result of a Labor government policy illegally and corruptly attacking the most vulnerable in our society, you'd be posting every two mins about it. Yet, we didn't hear boo about the robodebt royal commission findings from you.

https://www.afr.com/companies/sport/not-a-difficult-decision-andrews-scraps-commonwealth-games-20230718-p5dp3f

Great read. The most important thing is how badly other projects were costed. Something the chear leaders haven't mentioned once.. If only 6 weeks ago it was a 2 billion dollar exercise that is now 6 plus I wonder how many other projects have been thrown into chaos . Even Jerome and our Peggy were on this grainy train of close to a mil you would think.

If those that want to go down the robodebt path (rightly so) why wont they also bring up the Victorians governments waste?  :shh :thumbsdown
All projects around the world have been affected by the surge in inflation of the past 18 months. Victoria isn't alone. Having said here's my critique of each major project:

1. Comm Games - Embarrassing but right decision yesterday. The stupidity was agreeing to do it in the first place when no one else wanted it. Andrews has to wear this one. Ego got the better of him and he made someone else's problem his and the state's. 

2. Westgate Tunnel - even without the massive PFAS delays, I don't support inner city tollroads as they don't solve congestion. Why I opposed the dud EWL. Rather had Metro 2 and improved PT to the western suburbs. Still got to appease the road lobby in this state sadly :P

3. Metro Tunnel - at least a year ahead of schedule and possibly 18 months. Potentially completed by late next year if they keep going at this rate. Murdoch media reports are BS. The extra $3b costs reported were because additional and improved infrastructure was added to the original concept such as longer platforms along the metro lines for the longer MHCT high capacity trains (up to 9 cars long), high capacity signalling rather than the old block system so trains can automatically communicate their location inside the tunnel and run closer together (enables 2 min services), etc.

4. NE link - ring road is needed but hello costly retro-fitting in Melbourne! No forward planning from government nor corridors reserved for either rail or road over the previous 50-60 years = $19b fmd! All sides deserve blame given the multi-decade timeframe but it starts with Bolte.

5. Airport link - the problem has always been the government doesn't own/control the airport land and the road lobby (especially taxis) don't want the competition. The original design of the airport had set aside space for a future train station in the centre of the "square-ish bit" between Airport, Melbourne drives and Centre Road. That's why it's designed that way. Of course, the "car is god" mentality of the 70s saw that space taken up by a car park and now on top of that is a hotel. Now everything has to be retro-fitted and there's a barney between having an above ground (state/fed governments) and underground (Airport authority) station. My personal view is the airport should be part of a suburban line that continues on out north of Tullamarine so it has multiple usage but no one else is suggesting that. I think it's been put on the backburner for a year hoping by then this global inflation crisis is no more as correctly predicting and projecting costings for any project right now is futile. No guarantees with that given there's no end in sight in the conflict in Ukraine. 50 years and still waiting :boredom. Again blame on all sides and again starts with Bolte. 

6. Level Xing removal program - ahead of schedule. Promised 50 by the end of the second term and delivered 65. Up to 70 now with another 40 planned or already under construction to go. Godsend in my area.

7. SRL - Fast cross-city transport between major suburbia hubs is needed but hello the need to retro-fit again = going to cost A LOT albeit spread over a generation. Not the reported media figure though which is just again more lazy/agenda driven media BS. The "$200b" figure comes from the Libs sending in their version of the SRL to the PBO which added an imaginary extra 30 years onto the construction timeframe (until 2084 instead of 2053) and included operating costs (which for the eastern section would commence in 2035). The PBO rightly costed this version being an independent body, but it doesn't make it any less made-up (I'm not blaming the PBO for doing their job). 2084 is over 60 years from now. All existing transport infrastructure and operations will need to be replaced and modernised to late 21st century standards by then but we don't lob it all together into one single figure, throw our hands up and not do it (of course we'll be all pushing up daisies by 2084 anyway).


ps. For the record, I don't care which side builds needed transport infrastructure. For instance, the NSW Libs deserve praise for getting on and building the NW Metro a decade ago. Sydney's rail network wasn't neglected and left to rot for decades from the late 1950s like Melbourne's was until more recent times. The only thing Melbourne did better back then than Sydney was keep its tram network.

"if you only knew which school i went to" I believe was your comment back way when. Like a gaf, know or care so my reply was accurate.

Anyway of course you dont care about blowouts as its Victorian blowouts. Ask yourself why our debt is more than any other state?
Victoria is building far more infrastructure (especially transport) than any other state. We wouldn't have needed to if we hadn't needed to retrofit and play catch up after decades of neglect going back to the late 50s & 60s (starting with Bolte). The metro tunnel for instance would've been finished by now if the Baillieu/Napthine LNP govt hadn't reneged on their 2010 election promise to build it ::). When it finally started under the Andrews govt it became an urgent item to build as the existing city loop was reaching its capacity limits and the rail network would not be able to handle the demand by 2026.   

I have no issue with debt being used to build transport infrastructure as it is ultimately needed and returns a far greater socio-economic benefit in the long run. Not building these projects will cost the city more in the long run as we've learnt the hard way. I'm not saying all cost overruns are justified but virtually every large scale major project has/had similar issues  :-\. The NSW govt. is currently assessing the SW Metro project given the cost blowouts (under the previous govt). Going back in time, the West Gate Bridge took 10 years to build due to its poor structural planning/design and the tragic collapse two years into the build. With the Sydney Harbour Bridge construction costs, it took 56 years to pay off the debt. Future generations care more about the infrastructure being there for them than how much it cost at the time of construction. We are paying $$$ now because past generations and their govts failed to plan and especially build the required transport infrastructure for a 21st century Melbourne. Idiots who ripped up more transport infrastructure than they built blindly following 1960s vandals like Beeching in the UK or the tollroad-loving USA, rather than following the lead of European major cities. 

The payout over this comm games fiasco. Again who cares right. The costing stuff up by Jacinta Allan no biggie right? If she costed this only a few months ago imagine the stuff ups on the projects you have mentioned. :shh
I've already said it was stupid and criticised Andrews' decision to sign up to it in the first place given it's not being delivered. The right decision was made in the end though to dump it.

Other states/provinces/countries around the world are dumping their Comm Games bids given the rising costs of hosting them. The Comm Games future and existence is seriously under question now.

Canadian province Alberta cancels bid for 2030 Commonwealth Games

The government of Alberta has pulled its support for a bid to host the 2030 Commonwealth Games due to rising costs.

Tourism and Sport Minister Joseph Schow said the bill was estimated at C$2.7bn (£1.5bn; US$2bn, A$3.1bn) - a burden "too high for the province to bear".

Alberta's withdrawal means there are currently no other firm bids to host the 2030 Games.


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-66402140

Also if every country faced inflationary issues then every country is in debt as well like ours , or are we alone riddled with debt post covid :shh
The previous LNP govt. doubled the debt before covid with nothing to show for it. 

Robodebt is in the same category as every other stuff up ANDREWS has done IMO. I suspect the payout of robodebt may match the comm games payout on its own, let alone every other one of his stuff ups which includes ripping up that other billion dollar contract.
Wow! Robodebt was an illegal scheme that deliberately targeted the most vulnerable people in our society based on false LNP govt. claims for purely political capital (aided by the Murdoch media and radio shockjocks). They drove 100s of these vulnerable people to suicide. Nothing by any previous govt. of either persuasion compares anywhere near to Robodebt. So much for its architects Morrison, Dutton, Roberts and co. claiming to be "Christians" btw! ::)
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