One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: tdy on August 29, 2009, 09:52:14 PM
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I looked up the richmond site and checked out who our recruiters are. What is their pedigree, does anybody know? How long have they been with us and what have been their wins/loses as far as player selections have gone? Anybody know?
Because as much as we b*tch and moan about specific players and coaches its the recruiters who will make the biggest difference in the long term. The recruiters of the time didn't do well for Wallace (though I honestly don't think did really badly, just moderately bad) and its the recruiters who will make or break Hardwick too.
Forward Scout - Gordon Casey
Recruitment Manager - Francis Jackson
Recruiting Officer - Matthew Clarke
Recruiting Officer - Richard Taylor
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Francis Jackson is a former Richmond and South Melbourne/Sydney player. Played 106 games b/w 1973-83. One of the three players we traded away to South for John Pitura. He met Greg Miller at the Swans and then when Miller came to Richmond Jackson was employed in a part-time role in 2005 and then full-time from 2006 onwards.
Gordon Casey came over to Richmond with Terry from the Bulldogs. I didn't think he was involved in recruiting.
Clarke and Taylor have just be employed in full-time recruiting roles.
Basically we had two few people on the ground and relied on video highlights which the AFL gives all clubs rather than numerous live reports of junior players. Denham on KB's show during the week claimed we didn't even see JON play live before we drafted him. We just took recommendations of others who had seen him play and video highlights :o. No wonder our recruiting has sucked.
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Francis Jackson is a former Richmond and South Melbourne/Sydney player. Played 106 games b/w 1973-83. One of the three players we traded away to South for John Pitura. He met Greg Miller at the Swans and then when Miller came to Richmond Jackson was employed in a part-time role in 2005 and then full-time from 2006 onwards.
Gordon Casey came over to Richmond with Terry from the Bulldogs. I didn't think he was involved in recruiting.
Clarke and Taylor have just be employed in full-time recruiting roles.
Basically we had two few people on the ground and relied on video highlights which the AFL gives all clubs rather than numerous live reports of junior players. Denham on KB's show during the week claimed we didn't even see JON play live before we drafted him. We just took recommendations of others who had seen him play and video highlights :o. No wonder our recruiting has sucked.
JON was good at mowing lawns wasnt he? Terrific recruiting right there. I wanted us to draft Clark or Hurn. Hurns kicking of half back just sensational.
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JON was good at mowing lawns wasnt he? Terrific recruiting right there. I wanted us to draft Clark or Hurn. Hurns kicking of half back just sensational.
I still can't believe we overlooked Clark when we needed talls. Miller didn't rate Clark a top 10 pick. He had him on par with Cleve in terms of KPPs :P.
A pretty strong first round in 2005 as well. Not too many flops below apart from JON, Pfeiffer and perhaps Drum. Bailey crueled by 3 ACLs.
1 Marc Murphy - Carlton
2 Dale Thomas - Collingwood
3 Xavier Ellis - Hawthorn
4 Josh Kennedy - Carlton
5 Scott Pendlebury - Collingwood
6 Beau Dowler - Hawthorn
7 Patrick Ryder - Essendon
8 Jarrad Oakley-Nicholls - Richmond
9 Mitchell Clark - Brisbane
10 Marcus Drum - Fremantle
11 Shaun Higgins - Western Bulldogs
12 Nathan Jones - Melbourne
13 Shannon Hurn - West Coast
14 Grant Birchall - Hawthorn
15 Travis Varcoe - Geelong
16 Richard Douglas - Adelaide
17 Darren Pfeiffer - Adelaide
18 Max Bailey - Hawthorn
19 Courtenay Dempsey - Essendon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_AFL_Draft
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Higgins=Gun
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At my time at Metro I have never met any Richmond personal.
I don't claim to be anyone important, but Collingwood personal flood our boundry lines during games and annoy the poo out of us with questions and updates. Would love to just once see a RFC tracksuit and laptop.
I can't understand why it would hurt to employ 10 people to scout the states of junior footballers and pay them. It'd be almost a dream of mie to travel Australia finding talent for Richmond, I'd do it for chicken feed.
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Clarke and Taylor have just be employed in full-time recruiting roles.
Basically we had two few people on the ground and relied on video highlights which the AFL gives all clubs rather than numerous live reports of junior players. Denham on KB's show during the week claimed we didn't even see JON play live before we drafted him. We just took recommendations of others who had seen him play and video highlights :o. No wonder our recruiting has sucked.
So we've had too few people in the recruiting dept. We now have 3, is that enough? How many do collingwood have? I would think it is the next two or three years that will determine what Hardwick can do with the list. Given we have a new coach I would have thought the recruiting spend would be a priority in his first few years.
Addendum I checked the collingwood site and it says
Derek Hine National Recruiting Manager
Noel Judkins Head Scout
Neil Ross WA Recruiting Manager
But is a head scout a recruiter? They have an opposition analyst, so I wouldn't have thought Noel Judkins is involved in spying on other teams, but maybe thats what he does and they only have 2.
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At my time at Metro I have never met any Richmond personal.
I don't claim to be anyone important, but Collingwood personal flood our boundry lines during games and annoy the poo out of us with questions and updates. Would love to just once see a RFC tracksuit and laptop.
I can't understand why it would hurt to employ 10 people to scout the states of junior footballers and pay them. It'd be almost a dream of mie to travel Australia finding talent for Richmond, I'd do it for chicken feed.
is that EFL by any chance pope ???
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I don't claim to be anyone important, but Collingwood personal flood our boundry lines during games and annoy the poo out of us with questions and updates. Would love to just once see a RFC tracksuit and laptop.
Can tell you pope they rarely if ever rock up in a RFC tracksuit :thumbsup
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Jackson and his mates should be shown the door ASAP possibly before any of the players.
how he calls himself a recruiter is beyond me and thats being nice.
In fact you could argue we have fared worse than the dockers in jackson's time.
Since Jackson came to the club he has done not one thing right and i cant believe he still has a job to be honest. :banghead
Hardwick bring your own team in mate and stuff these losers off please
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So we've had too few people in the recruiting dept. We now have 3, is that enough? How many do collingwood have? I would think it is the next two or three years that will determine what Hardwick can do with the list. Given we have a new coach I would have thought the recruiting spend would be a priority in his first few years.
Addendum I checked the collingwood site and it says
Derek Hine National Recruiting Manager
Noel Judkins Head Scout
Neil Ross WA Recruiting Manager
But is a head scout a recruiter? They have an opposition analyst, so I wouldn't have thought Noel Judkins is involved in spying on other teams, but maybe thats what he does and they only have 2.
What network do they have around Australia? How many people do they have on the ground who report back to the main recruiters? How many attend each U18 game in each state? I know at Hawthorn they've had 3-4 people positioned around the ground at U18 matches making individual reports which are then correlated by the recruiting dept.
No just the recruiters' networks either. Hardwick knows Denis Pagan who is coaching the Northern Knights. Would Pagan provide Damien with inside info on Knights' players who may be good smokeys?
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Since Jackson came to the club he has done not one thing right and i cant believe he still has a job to be honest. :banghead
So based on the above you are saying that
Vickery
Post
Collins
Cotchin
Rance
Nahas
plus the rookies in BrownE and Gilligan
are all dud draft choices?
Remember that he is not responsible for trades
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IMHO Francis Jacksons record is average. Richmond need to go out and get people who seem to get it more right than wrong. Derek Hine at Collingwood should have been targetted by now. Anyway we are just peeing into the wind on these forums so what we say makes no difference at all.
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Since Jackson came to the club he has done not one thing right and i cant believe he still has a job to be honest. :banghead
So based on the above you are saying that
Vickery
Post
Collins
Cotchin
Rance
Nahas
plus the rookies in BrownE and Gilligan
are all dud draft choices?
Remember that he is not responsible for trades
Vickery-good
Collins will be a star
Nahas-good find.
Cotchin was a no brainer please dont use that chestnut. My 90 year old Nonna would have selected him with pick 2. Ditto Vickery.
Browne. please your joking right. you call that a great find. How many games could he manage to play this year. 1 was it??
the rest of those names too early to call
While other clubs were finding your Brad Sewell, Tayte Pears, Eddie Betts of this world, these idiots were finding the likes of JON, Putt and Kingsley's etc etc please dont say he never had a say in recruiting Kingsley. He is the head recruiter so along with the coach should be held responsible.
some of the names that jackson has found.
Collard
Cam Howatt
Putt
Cartledge
Kingsley
JON
Jake King
Peterson
what a star studded this list that is.
in the same draft players like Grima, Hooker, Pears and Armfield were picked up.
i hope Hardwick doesn't retain the services of this clown.
If hardwick is to be successful its not with failures like Jackson and co. Find your own people Damian.
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JON was good at mowing lawns wasnt he? Terrific recruiting right there. I wanted us to draft Clark or Hurn. Hurns kicking of half back just sensational.
I still can't believe we overlooked Clark when we needed talls. Miller didn't rate Clark a top 10 pick. He had him on par with Cleve in terms of KPPs :P.
A pretty strong first round in 2005 as well. Not too many flops below apart from JON, Pfeiffer and perhaps Drum. Bailey crueled by 3 ACLs.
1 Marc Murphy - Carlton
2 Dale Thomas - Collingwood
3 Xavier Ellis - Hawthorn
4 Josh Kennedy - Carlton
5 Scott Pendlebury - Collingwood
6 Beau Dowler - Hawthorn
7 Patrick Ryder - Essendon
8 Jarrad Oakley-Nicholls - Richmond
9 Mitchell Clark - Brisbane
10 Marcus Drum - Fremantle
11 Shaun Higgins - Western Bulldogs
12 Nathan Jones - Melbourne
13 Shannon Hurn - West Coast
14 Grant Birchall - Hawthorn
15 Travis Varcoe - Geelong
16 Richard Douglas - Adelaide
17 Darren Pfeiffer - Adelaide
18 Max Bailey - Hawthorn
19 Courtenay Dempsey - Essendon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_AFL_Draft
Can't believe we overlooked this lot and picked JON???????????????
11 Shaun Higgins - Western Bulldogs
12 Nathan Jones - Melbourne
13 Shannon Hurn - West Coast
14 Grant Birchall - Hawthorn
15 Travis Varcoe - Geelong
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JON was good at mowing lawns wasnt he? Terrific recruiting right there. I wanted us to draft Clark or Hurn. Hurns kicking of half back just sensational.
I still can't believe we overlooked Clark when we needed talls. Miller didn't rate Clark a top 10 pick. He had him on par with Cleve in terms of KPPs :P.
A pretty strong first round in 2005 as well. Not too many flops below apart from JON, Pfeiffer and perhaps Drum. Bailey crueled by 3 ACLs.
1 Marc Murphy - Carlton
2 Dale Thomas - Collingwood
3 Xavier Ellis - Hawthorn
4 Josh Kennedy - Carlton
5 Scott Pendlebury - Collingwood
6 Beau Dowler - Hawthorn
7 Patrick Ryder - Essendon
8 Jarrad Oakley-Nicholls - Richmond
9 Mitchell Clark - Brisbane
10 Marcus Drum - Fremantle
11 Shaun Higgins - Western Bulldogs
12 Nathan Jones - Melbourne
13 Shannon Hurn - West Coast
14 Grant Birchall - Hawthorn
15 Travis Varcoe - Geelong
16 Richard Douglas - Adelaide
17 Darren Pfeiffer - Adelaide
18 Max Bailey - Hawthorn
19 Courtenay Dempsey - Essendon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_AFL_Draft
Can't believe we overlooked this lot and picked JON???????????????
11 Shaun Higgins - Western Bulldogs
12 Nathan Jones - Melbourne
13 Shannon Hurn - West Coast
14 Grant Birchall - Hawthorn
15 Travis Varcoe - Geelong
Hardwick should be shown that list and then asked if this was the type of recruiter you want at your football club??
i bet the answer is no.
a clean out is needed, not just with the playing list, a big change needs to come from the footy department and in terms of recruiting we have failed so they should be shown the door.
Hardwick is Richmond now so id be throwing everything at Pelchen. stuff em.
we should have gone harder for Clayton as well. god knows why we are soft when it comes to pouching quality people from other clubs.
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I'm sorry, but we shouldn't be cutting ANYONE from our recruiting department
Demote, perhaps, but we should only be ADDING staff to this area
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I cannot believe I am responding to this but because you continue to twist things to create your facts I have no choice ;D
Vickery-good
Collins will be a star
Nahas-good find.
Cotchin was a no brainer please dont use that chestnut. My 90 year old Nonna would have selected him with pick 2. Ditto Vickery.
Browne. please your joking right. you call that a great find. How many games could he manage to play this year. 1 was it??
BrownE was a rookie for crying out loud who was nominated for 3 games - may explain why he only played 1 game and before you start ranting & raving about him playing games for Coburg reserves - the reason was simpley becuase they wanted to give game time and he wasn't going to get that sitting on the bench for Coburg seniors - FACT
Collard
Cam Howatt
Putt
Cartledge
Kingsley
JON
Jake King
Peterson
Let's see Howat, JON, Cartledge & Peterson were picked up when Jackson was either not at the club or when he was a part time recruiter so I am not quite sure how you can blame him for those
Putt & Collard were Greg Miller selections - again this a FACT. Kingsley was a preseason draft selection which is list management decision rather than a recruiter decision but if you want to blame Jackson for that one too you may as well give him all the credit for Cousins right?
And one more thing you go on about Tayte Pears please tell me outside of Putt who from your list of gems were in the same draft as him? Ditto Armfield & Hooker
Let's compare apples with some apples rather that Apples with watermelons
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I cannot believe I am responding to this but because you continue to twist things to create your facts I have no choice ;D
Vickery-good
Collins will be a star
Nahas-good find.
Cotchin was a no brainer please dont use that chestnut. My 90 year old Nonna would have selected him with pick 2. Ditto Vickery.
Browne. please your joking right. you call that a great find. How many games could he manage to play this year. 1 was it??
BrownE was a rookie for crying out loud who was nominated for 3 games - may explain why he only played 1 game and before you start ranting & raving about him playing games for Coburg reserves - the reason was simpley becuase they wanted to give game time and he wasn't going to get that sitting on the bench for Coburg seniors - FACT
Collard
Cam Howatt
Putt
Cartledge
Kingsley
JON
Jake King
Peterson
Let's see Howat, JON, Cartledge & Peterson were picked up when Jackson was either not at the club or when he was a part time recruiter so I am not quite sure how you can blame him for those
Putt & Collard were Greg Miller selections - again this a FACT. Kingsley was a preseason draft selection which is list management decision rather than a recruiter decision but if you want to blame Jackson for that one too you may as well give him all the credit for Cousins right?
And one more thing you go on about Tayte Pears please tell me outside of Putt who from your list of gems were in the same draft as him? Ditto Armfield & Hooker
Let's compare apples with some apples rather that Apples with watermelons
WP clearly you have a bias toward jackson wheras i dont.
i see it how it is.
Francis jackson was employed at the RFC when we recruited JON, Cartledge and Howatt etc etc, ...FACT!! i dont care if he was p/t or f/t he was well and truly involved in the process.
Francis jackson was recruited at the RFC when we recruited those other guns who i mentioned above in 2006 and 2007 and you could even argue he assisted in the infamous 2005 draft with his mate Miller, afterall he was employed by the RFC in 2005 was he not.
At this point in time outside of Cotch i only see Nahas and Collins as wins for Jackson. Post will be good too but too early to call then wins for jackson.
If you were judging Rance now you will say thats a failure by Jackson, although he is young so hope he improves.
id prefer to let the record and draft choices speak for itself. He is a failure of the highest order.
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I still can't believe we overlooked Clark when we needed talls. Miller didn't rate Clark a top 10 pick. He had him on par with Cleve in terms of KPPs :P.
Miller also laughed when Collingwood took Pendlebury at 5 so the story goes.
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I will say this, I am far from impressed with Francis Jackson.
It seemed to me that when Miller was there, he was like a "'Miller "" puppet.
I dont believe he is the right man for the job.
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I still can't believe we overlooked Clark when we needed talls. Miller didn't rate Clark a top 10 pick. He had him on par with Cleve in terms of KPPs :P.
Miller also laughed when Collingwood took Pendlebury at 5 so the story goes.
Having seen Pendlebury play that year he was clearly a top 10 pick. Clearly a player with great disposal skills - that our chief recruiter was supposedly laughing just shows why we are down the bottom of the ladder. Derek Hine should have been targetted by our club, Francis Jacksons average I repeat is average at best.
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Having seen Pendlebury play that year he was clearly a top 10 pick. Clearly a player with great disposal skills - that our chief recruiter was supposedly laughing just shows why we are down the bottom of the ladder. Derek Hine should have been targetted by our club, Francis Jacksons average I repeat is average at best.
Can just imagine it.
Haha, Pendlebury!?!? We've seen video of this guy JON, someone told us he's good.
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Having seen Pendlebury play that year he was clearly a top 10 pick. Clearly a player with great disposal skills - that our chief recruiter was supposedly laughing just shows why we are down the bottom of the ladder. Derek Hine should have been targetted by our club, Francis Jacksons average I repeat is average at best.
Can just imagine it.
Haha, Pendlebury!?!? We've seen video of this guy JON, someone told us he's good.
Hye Wayne, as funny it may seem, you might find this is nearly true
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It is a massive country and a massive job. We should be proactive and dangling a carrot for junior clubs.
My proposal would be that we offer $20,000 to any club whose player we pick up in say the first 4 rounds of the draft. But to be eligible they must send all their match videos to us. Midway through the year we make a shortlist of say 30-40 players and we ask their club's to provide videos of just those players in action over 4 quarters. Footage must be raw and unedited.
Although I am sure this would break some control-freak rules at AFL HQ, it would allow access to many more players for the cost of a bit more than recruiter, and would allow our existing recruiters to look farther and wider perhaps finding the next Liam Jurrah.
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I cannot believe I am responding to this but because you continue to twist things to create your facts I have no choice ;D
Vickery-good
Collins will be a star
Nahas-good find.
Cotchin was a no brainer please dont use that chestnut. My 90 year old Nonna would have selected him with pick 2. Ditto Vickery.
Browne. please your joking right. you call that a great find. How many games could he manage to play this year. 1 was it??
BrownE was a rookie for crying out loud who was nominated for 3 games - may explain why he only played 1 game and before you start ranting & raving about him playing games for Coburg reserves - the reason was simpley becuase they wanted to give game time and he wasn't going to get that sitting on the bench for Coburg seniors - FACT
Collard
Cam Howatt
Putt
Cartledge
Kingsley
JON
Jake King
Peterson
Let's see Howat, JON, Cartledge & Peterson were picked up when Jackson was either not at the club or when he was a part time recruiter so I am not quite sure how you can blame him for those
Putt & Collard were Greg Miller selections - again this a FACT. Kingsley was a preseason draft selection which is list management decision rather than a recruiter decision but if you want to blame Jackson for that one too you may as well give him all the credit for Cousins right?
And one more thing you go on about Tayte Pears please tell me outside of Putt who from your list of gems were in the same draft as him? Ditto Armfield & Hooker
Let's compare apples with some apples rather that Apples with watermelons
WP clearly you have a bias toward jackson wheras i dont.
i see it how it is.
Francis jackson was employed at the RFC when we recruited JON, Cartledge and Howatt etc etc, ...FACT!! i dont care if he was p/t or f/t he was well and truly involved in the process.
Francis jackson was recruited at the RFC when we recruited those other guns who i mentioned above in 2006 and 2007 and you could even argue he assisted in the infamous 2005 draft with his mate Miller, afterall he was employed by the RFC in 2005 was he not.
At this point in time outside of Cotch i only see Nahas and Collins as wins for Jackson. Post will be good too but too early to call then wins for jackson.
If you were judging Rance now you will say thats a failure by Jackson, although he is young so hope he improves.
id prefer to let the record and draft choices speak for itself. He is a failure of the highest order.
so tell me WP im waiting for your reply or have you nothing to back your claims. Im wondering why you think he should be kept by Hardwick
seriously tell me what Francis Jackson has done so well since he arrived in 2005.It is 2005 isn't it?
which players have been outstanding recruits by jackson outside the ones i have mentioned
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Just print 10,000 "LMAO@ The RFC " tee shirts and sell them to opposition supporters.
I'd even buy one
$$$$
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I cannot believe I am responding to this but because you continue to twist things to create your facts I have no choice ;D
Vickery-good
Collins will be a star
Nahas-good find.
Cotchin was a no brainer please dont use that chestnut. My 90 year old Nonna would have selected him with pick 2. Ditto Vickery.
Browne. please your joking right. you call that a great find. How many games could he manage to play this year. 1 was it??
BrownE was a rookie for crying out loud who was nominated for 3 games - may explain why he only played 1 game and before you start ranting & raving about him playing games for Coburg reserves - the reason was simpley becuase they wanted to give game time and he wasn't going to get that sitting on the bench for Coburg seniors - FACT
Collard
Cam Howatt
Putt
Cartledge
Kingsley
JON
Jake King
Peterson
Let's see Howat, JON, Cartledge & Peterson were picked up when Jackson was either not at the club or when he was a part time recruiter so I am not quite sure how you can blame him for those
Putt & Collard were Greg Miller selections - again this a FACT. Kingsley was a preseason draft selection which is list management decision rather than a recruiter decision but if you want to blame Jackson for that one too you may as well give him all the credit for Cousins right?
And one more thing you go on about Tayte Pears please tell me outside of Putt who from your list of gems were in the same draft as him? Ditto Armfield & Hooker
Let's compare apples with some apples rather that Apples with watermelons
WP clearly you have a bias toward jackson wheras i dont.
i see it how it is.
Francis jackson was employed at the RFC when we recruited JON, Cartledge and Howatt etc etc, ...FACT!! i dont care if he was p/t or f/t he was well and truly involved in the process.
Francis jackson was recruited at the RFC when we recruited those other guns who i mentioned above in 2006 and 2007 and you could even argue he assisted in the infamous 2005 draft with his mate Miller, afterall he was employed by the RFC in 2005 was he not.
At this point in time outside of Cotch i only see Nahas and Collins as wins for Jackson. Post will be good too but too early to call then wins for jackson.
If you were judging Rance now you will say thats a failure by Jackson, although he is young so hope he improves.
id prefer to let the record and draft choices speak for itself. He is a failure of the highest order.
how about riewoldt and edwards ...since FJ has held the reigns our performance at the draft table has improved expodentially from the time that Miller ran the department
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Just print 10,000 "LMAO@ The RFC " tee shirts and sell them to opposition supporters.
I'd even buy one
$$$$
You could always get one of the "I was there when we were poo" tshirts from puntroad.com
I got the 25th anniversary edition one
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Collard
Cam Howatt
Putt
Cartledge
Kingsley
JON
Jake King
Peterson
Let's see Howat, JON, Cartledge & Peterson were picked up when Jackson was either not at the club or when he was a part time recruiter so I am not quite sure how you can blame him for those
Putt & Collard were Greg Miller selections - again this a FACT. Kingsley was a preseason draft selection which is list management decision rather than a recruiter decision but if you want to blame Jackson for that one too you may as well give him all the credit for Cousins right?
And one more thing you go on about Tayte Pears please tell me outside of Putt who from your list of gems were in the same draft as him? Ditto Armfield & Hooker
Let's compare apples with some apples rather that Apples with watermelons
[/quote]
Francis jackson was employed at the RFC when we recruited JON, Cartledge and Howatt etc etc, ...FACT!! i dont care if he was p/t or f/t he was well and truly involved in the process.
Francis jackson was recruited at the RFC when we recruited those other guns who i mentioned above in 2006 and 2007 and you could even argue he assisted in the infamous 2005 draft with his mate Miller, afterall he was employed by the RFC in 2005 was he not.
At this point in time outside of Cotch i only see Nahas and Collins as wins for Jackson. Post will be good too but too early to call then wins for jackson.
If you were judging Rance now you will say thats a failure by Jackson, although he is young so hope he improves.
id prefer to let the record and draft choices speak for itself. He is a failure of the highest order.
[/quote]
how about riewoldt and edwards ...since FJ has held the reigns our performance at the draft table has improved expodentially from the time that Miller ran the department
[/quote]
Lets not eat our own fellas. I tend to agree recruiting has got better under Jackson but that is not to say it can't get better.
It is a pity we missed Clayton but GC17 is a once in a lifetime opportunity for any recruiter.
Some players mature late like Tuck, some players have major defects like Kositschke (sp?), its about having more hits than your opposition recruiters and that usually comes from $ spent. This is our number one important area, it deserves real focus.
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Best of luck to these dudes this time around
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oh deary me another who lacks the courage of his own convictions.
fj overall imo well simply put we should do better.
and for people to say that those recruiters at club level have no say into trades is beyond belief.bloody hell here we have people who we pay good money to look at young players strengths weakness and performance against peers and we arent going to ask them to give an appraisal on mature players now that would be amateuurish and very richmond.
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.......fj overall imo well simply put we should do better.
and for people to say that those recruiters at club level have no say into trades is beyond belief.bloody hell here we have people who we pay good money to look at young players strengths weakness and performance against peers and we arent going to ask them to give an appraisal on mature players now that would be amateuurish and very richmond.
So recruiters are off watching multiple non-AFL games on a weekend, normally juniors and now they're supposed to watch the AFL and VFL as well.
There are clear roles and responsibilities for all in the football department. The opposition/forward analysts and list analyst are there to provide input on/about opposition players. If deemed suitable the recruiters will review and comment and rate vs other recruitment opportunities.
This has been made abundantly clear by the club. I have been able to glean that from all the interviews etc. that OE and MT have posted.
Just like some who want to believe that DH controls all that is not the case. The RFC more and more is becoming a well run club with clear accountabilities and responsibilities. It seems some supporters can't grasp that.
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oh deary me another who lacks the courage of his own convictions.
fj overall imo well simply put we should do better.
and for people to say that those recruiters at club level have no say into trades is beyond belief.bloody hell here we have people who we pay good money to look at young players strengths weakness and performance against peers and we arent going to ask them to give an appraisal on mature players now that would be amateuurish and very richmond.
It wasn't Francis' fault we traded for Jordie as higher powers decided on that disaster :scream. He certainly wanted both picks 18 and 19 on 2007 draft day. Nor was it Francis' fault that he didn't have an extra top 20 pick last year plus an extra pick 4 this year because if those above him had been smart with their forward planning 4 wins in each of last and this year would've delivered us those priority picks. Did someone say the Club really wants Heppell but they reckon he'll be gone by pick 4? We only have ourselves as a club to blame in that case :P
Francis and the recruiting staff can only do their best with whatever draft picks they're dealt. If those choices are poor then yeah Francis deserves criticism but if those above him make idiotic trades and/or zero forward planning about draft strategies then blame them not Francis.
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oh deary me another who lacks the courage of his own convictions.
fj overall imo well simply put we should do better.
and for people to say that those recruiters at club level have no say into trades is beyond belief.bloody hell here we have people who we pay good money to look at young players strengths weakness and performance against peers and we arent going to ask them to give an appraisal on mature players now that would be amateuurish and very richmond.
It wasn't Francis' fault we traded for Jordie as higher powers decided on that disaster :scream. He certainly wanted both picks 18 and 19 on 2007 draft day. Nor was it Francis' fault that he didn't have an extra top 20 pick last year plus an extra pick 4 this year because if those above him had been smart with their forward planning 4 wins in each of last and this year would've delivered us those priority picks. Did someone say the Club really wants Heppell but they reckon he'll be gone by pick 4? We only have ourselves as a club to blame in that case :P
Francis and the recruiting staff can only do their best with whatever draft picks they're dealt. If those choices are poor then yeah Francis deserves criticism but if those above him make idiotic trades and/or zero forward planning about draft strategies then blame them not Francis.
so your reasoning is that jackson never saw any games that Mcmahon, Hislop or Thomspon or anyone for that matter played in prior to being drafted.
I dont buy it. It was a team effort that screwed that over for us. He is our recruiter is he not? well im sure he was observing Mcmahon prior to being drafted.
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so your reasoning is that jackson never saw any games that Mcmahon, Hislop or Thomspon or anyone for that matter played in prior to being drafted.
I dont buy it. It was a team effort that screwed that over for us. He is our recruiter is he not? well im sure he was observing Mcmahon prior to being drafted.
They knew what they were getting, your spot on daniel
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oh deary me another who lacks the courage of his own convictions.
fj overall imo well simply put we should do better.
and for people to say that those recruiters at club level have no say into trades is beyond belief.bloody hell here we have people who we pay good money to look at young players strengths weakness and performance against peers and we arent going to ask them to give an appraisal on mature players now that would be amateuurish and very richmond.
It wasn't Francis' fault we traded for Jordie as higher powers decided on that disaster :scream. He certainly wanted both picks 18 and 19 on 2007 draft day. Nor was it Francis' fault that he didn't have an extra top 20 pick last year plus an extra pick 4 this year because if those above him had been smart with their forward planning 4 wins in each of last and this year would've delivered us those priority picks. Did someone say the Club really wants Heppell but they reckon he'll be gone by pick 4? We only have ourselves as a club to blame in that case :P
Francis and the recruiting staff can only do their best with whatever draft picks they're dealt. If those choices are poor then yeah Francis deserves criticism but if those above him make idiotic trades and/or zero forward planning about draft strategies then blame them not Francis.
so your reasoning is that jackson never saw any games that Mcmahon, Hislop or Thomspon or anyone for that matter played in prior to being drafted.
I dont buy it. It was a team effort that screwed that over for us. He is our recruiter is he not? well im sure he was observing Mcmahon prior to being drafted.
thank you daniel exactly the point i was making.
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oh deary me another who lacks the courage of his own convictions.
fj overall imo well simply put we should do better.
and for people to say that those recruiters at club level have no say into trades is beyond belief.bloody hell here we have people who we pay good money to look at young players strengths weakness and performance against peers and we arent going to ask them to give an appraisal on mature players now that would be amateuurish and very richmond.
It wasn't Francis' fault we traded for Jordie as higher powers decided on that disaster :scream. He certainly wanted both picks 18 and 19 on 2007 draft day. Nor was it Francis' fault that he didn't have an extra top 20 pick last year plus an extra pick 4 this year because if those above him had been smart with their forward planning 4 wins in each of last and this year would've delivered us those priority picks. Did someone say the Club really wants Heppell but they reckon he'll be gone by pick 4? We only have ourselves as a club to blame in that case :P
Francis and the recruiting staff can only do their best with whatever draft picks they're dealt. If those choices are poor then yeah Francis deserves criticism but if those above him make idiotic trades and/or zero forward planning about draft strategies then blame them not Francis.
dont preach to me about tanking ive copped plenty of poo advocating it and not just this yr. it should be 4 and 6 this yr but hey we dont need it we are there.
as for FJ hes been average at best and i most certainly think the club would expect him to have some sort of input into what ever player we bring to the club. but i will concede he may have been against mcmahon but i doubt it.
anyway here we are having this debate about whos responsible for what we have the sherman houli debate raging it makes one wonder about the processes we are going thru still.
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You're posting as though the Houli and Sherman deals are done and fact, rather than Internet rumours and then basing your opinions of professionals on that.
Bizarre way of making a conclusion.
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so your reasoning is that jackson never saw any games that Mcmahon, Hislop or Thomspon or anyone for that matter played in prior to being drafted.
I dont buy it. It was a team effort that screwed that over for us. He is our recruiter is he not? well im sure he was observing Mcmahon prior to being drafted.
daniel which part of this don't you get?
FJ had no say in the club trading for McMahon, Hislop & Thomson - that is (to borrow one of Jack's favourite saysings) FACT. He didn't drafdt those players to the club they were traded to the club and their is massive difference
I know it does'nt suit you argument but it is none the less FACT.
Whack him for drafting decisions if you have to but not trade decisions.
He doesn't get involved in trades end of stroy. His job is to find the best kids and draft them with the picks he has available based on what the club tell him they want....
If it was up to him we wouldn't trade away one pick
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You're posting as though the Houli and Sherman deals are done and fact, rather than Internet rumours and then basing your opinions of professionals on that.
Bizarre way of making a conclusion.
Happens often. He also posts as if peoples opinions on internet forums somehow affects the decisions being made by the club.
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no point getting upset untill after we trade away our picks..
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.......fj overall imo well simply put we should do better.
and for people to say that those recruiters at club level have no say into trades is beyond belief.bloody hell here we have people who we pay good money to look at young players strengths weakness and performance against peers and we arent going to ask them to give an appraisal on mature players now that would be amateuurish and very richmond.
The opposition/forward analysts and list analyst are there to provide input on/about opposition players. If deemed suitable the recruiters will review and comment and rate vs other recruitment opportunities.
This has been made abundantly clear by the club. I have been able to glean that from all the interviews etc. that OE and MT have posted.
Just like some who want to believe that DH controls all that is not the case. The RFC more and more is becoming a well run club with clear accountabilities and responsibilities. It seems some supporters can't grasp that.
just as i said jackson would have some input into what mature players we get. this may not mke him solely responsible but responsible as a group.
and i agree on hardwick. miller was the messiah and was not to be questioned so to we get the same thinking with hardwick by many.
i am one who has always questioned not just the coaches but the processes or lack of them the recruiters the whole footy staff and apportion blame where it should be aimed. istill rant about the processes and our failure to follow thru on them yr in yr out.
i was one of few who wanted miller gone after just 1 draft. because he clearly could not see the need to rebuild the list and build the footy dept and find the best possible people for the many roles that needed to be filled .
especially in recruiting i have long advocated finance and run this crucial area well and ignore all else if need be.
are we doing as you say getting good personel in all areas and importantly putting long term processes in place and sticking to them? well we will see. me im questioning it hence my presence on this thread.
the so called improvement in all areas of the club has it happened. well personally i cant see it just yet. they are talking the talk but are yet to walk the walk. debt has actually blown back out to 5mil we finished 15th with the worst percentage in the comp and after one of the worst front halfs to a season by any club ever. the footy dept got its fair share of things wrong but all this is ignored lets all just stick our heads up our arses and pray.
it seems to me we have offered sherman a three yr deal it will in all likelyhood cost us our second rnd pick if it happens at all. the fact we are going thru this process at al,l and even sniffing has me concerned about what if anything those in chargee have learnt.
yep i will jump up and down and bleat like a stuck pig just like jackson should have when pick 19 was offered up for mcmahon.
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just as i said jackson would have some input into what mature players we get. this may not mke him solely responsible but responsible as a group.
On what basis can you make that comment? You have no idea and are purely speculating
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just as i said jackson would have some input into what mature players we get. this may not mke him solely responsible but responsible as a group.
On what basis can you make that comment? You have no idea and are purely speculating
lol. yep im only useing a bit of common sense and speculating doing it. if jackson our # 1 honcho whos main role is to assess talent look at strengths and weaknesses and performance against peers is not used in some sort of capacity or even asked his opinion on possible recruits it would indeed be amateur hour. just useing a little common sense i would fully expect the club to be useing jacksons knowledge or being labeled negligent. its a thing called due process and i would expect our club to go thru it.
any way as hk said. and i quote; if deemed suitable the recruiters will review and comment and rate vs other recruitment opportunities.
this has been made abundantly clear by the club. end quote;
perhaps hk is just speculating as well.
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Here's some more speculation, maybe they did ask Francis his opinion on those trades and he said they were duds,
Here's some facts, at the end of the day the trade is not his call to make, someone else makes it, simple as that
and i wasn't aware Francis is also in charge of player development once his draft picks get to the club? :lol that's a big job, when did that happen? hope he got a six figure pay rise
He's no guru, he needs more men around him as Infamy said, but he's not a complete pillock
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Here's some more speculation, maybe they did ask Francis his opinion on those trades and he said they were duds,
Here's some facts, at the end of the day the trade is not his call to make, someone else makes it, simple as that
and i wasn't aware Francis is also in charge of player development once his draft picks get to the club? :lol that's a big job, when did that happen? hope he got a six figure pay rise
He's no guru, he needs more men around him as Infamy said, but he's not a complete pillock
You'll find that Jackson is a favourite whipping boy of some on here who like to slander and knife with zero consideration of any facts or likely reality so don't waste time trying to defend the indefensible GG, even if you are 100% correct. Logic and common sense............meet window. :banghead
And FWIW, I rate him very highly and think he has done a very good job since coming on-board full time.
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Here's some more speculation, maybe they did ask Francis his opinion on those trades and he said they were duds,
Here's some facts, at the end of the day the trade is not his call to make, someone else makes it, simple as that
and i wasn't aware Francis is also in charge of player development once his draft picks get to the club? :lol that's a big job, when did that happen? hope he got a six figure pay rise
He's no guru, he needs more men around him as Infamy said, but he's not a complete pillock
You'll find that Jackson is a favourite whipping boy of some on here who like to slander and knife with zero consideration of any facts or likely reality so don't waste time trying to defend the indefensible GG, even if you are 100% correct. Logic and common sense............meet window. :banghead
And FWIW, I rate him very highly and think he has done a very good job since coming on-board full time.
so the club would not ask jackson his opinion and utilise his expertise when looking at trades. how naieve and unreasonable to assume. ah one expects blind faith when ferals defend our own.and you rate him highly based on what may i ask. or are you speculating.
ya know the last time i looked this was a footy website where speculation and opinion rule supreme. i know lets just close down the site so those naughty people who question things can be shut up.
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Here's some more speculation, maybe they did ask Francis his opinion on those trades and he said they were duds,
Here's some facts, at the end of the day the trade is not his call to make, someone else makes it, simple as that
and i wasn't aware Francis is also in charge of player development once his draft picks get to the club? :lol that's a big job, when did that happen? hope he got a six figure pay rise
He's no guru, he needs more men around him as Infamy said, but he's not a complete pillock
You'll find that Jackson is a favourite whipping boy of some on here who like to slander and knife with zero consideration of any facts or likely reality so don't waste time trying to defend the indefensible GG, even if you are 100% correct. Logic and common sense............meet window. :banghead
And FWIW, I rate him very highly and think he has done a very good job since coming on-board full time.
so the club would not ask jackson his opinion and utilise his expertise when looking at trades. how naieve and unreasonable to assume. ah one expects blind faith when ferals defend our own.and you rate him highly based on what may i ask. or are you speculating.
ya know the last time i looked this was a footy website where speculation and opinion rule supreme. i know lets just close down the site so those naughty people who question things can be shut up.
What a load of dribble Claw.
"so the club would not ask jackson his opinion and utilise his expertise when looking at trades. how naieve and unreasonable to assume." Read the first 2 lines of GG's post again.
"and you rate him highly based on what may i ask. or are you speculating." I rate him highly based on his results so far:
2006 - #13 Jack Riewoldt, #26 Shane Edwards, #58 Dan Connors, #60 Carl Peterson, #73 Andrew Collins, PSD Kent Kingsley
2007 - #2 Trent Cotchin, #18 Alex Rance, #51 Dean Putt, PSD David Gourdis
2008 - #8 Ty Vickery, #26 Jayden Post, #58 Tom Hislop, PSD Ben Cousins
2009 - #3 Dustin Martin, #19 Ben Griffiths, #35 David Astbury, #44 Matthew Dea, #51 Troy Taylor, #67 Jeromey Webberley, #71 Ben Nason, PSD Dylan Grimes
Only 3 of those players not on a list somewhere at present - 2 of those were retirees - and of the rest a very large majority have either cemented positions or are showing a lot of potential. Stack his record up against the other recruiters and then come back to me with your facts, your balanced and reasoned argument.
"i know lets just close down the site so those naughty people who question things can be shut up." What a load of wank.
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Here's some more speculation, maybe they did ask Francis his opinion on those trades and he said they were duds,
Here's some facts, at the end of the day the trade is not his call to make, someone else makes it, simple as that
and i wasn't aware Francis is also in charge of player development once his draft picks get to the club? :lol that's a big job, when did that happen? hope he got a six figure pay rise
He's no guru, he needs more men around him as Infamy said, but he's not a complete pillock
You'll find that Jackson is a favourite whipping boy of some on here who like to slander and knife with zero consideration of any facts or likely reality so don't waste time trying to defend the indefensible GG, even if you are 100% correct. Logic and common sense............meet window. :banghead
And FWIW, I rate him very highly and think he has done a very good job since coming on-board full time.
so the club would not ask jackson his opinion and utilise his expertise when looking at trades. how naieve and unreasonable to assume. ah one expects blind faith when ferals defend our own.and you rate him highly based on what may i ask. or are you speculating.
ya know the last time i looked this was a footy website where speculation and opinion rule supreme. i know lets just close down the site so those naughty people who question things can be shut up.
What a load of dribble Claw.
"so the club would not ask jackson his opinion and utilise his expertise when looking at trades. how naieve and unreasonable to assume." Read the first 2 lines of GG's post again.
"and you rate him highly based on what may i ask. or are you speculating." I rate him highly based on his results so far:
2006 - #13 Jack Riewoldt, #26 Shane Edwards, #58 Dan Connors, #60 Carl Peterson, #73 Andrew Collins, PSD Kent Kingsley
2007 - #2 Trent Cotchin, #18 Alex Rance, #51 Dean Putt, PSD David Gourdis
2008 - #8 Ty Vickery, #26 Jayden Post, #58 Tom Hislop, PSD Ben Cousins
2009 - #3 Dustin Martin, #19 Ben Griffiths, #35 David Astbury, #44 Matthew Dea, #51 Troy Taylor, #67 Jeromey Webberley, #71 Ben Nason, PSD Dylan Grimes
Only 3 of those players not on a list somewhere at present - 2 of those were retirees - and of the rest a very large majority have either cemented positions or are showing a lot of potential. Stack his record up against the other recruiters and then come back to me with your facts, your balanced and reasoned argument.
"i know lets just close down the site so those naughty people who question things can be shut up." What a load of wank.
2006 - Good Result draft wise at the moment
2007 - Only Cotchin at this stage - so probably not a good result so far.
2008 - Poor Result draft wise at the moment
2009 - Seems like a Good Draft
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2006 - Good Result draft wise at the moment. 4 ticks, 1 now playing elsewhere and showing potential so 1 half tick, 1 cross.
2007 - Only Cotchin at this stage - so probably not a good result so far. But only 4 picks so 1 tick, 2 playing seniors and showing potential so 2 half ticks, 1 cross.
2008 - Poor Result draft wise at the moment. 1 tick even for the short term, 2 showing potential so 2 half ticks, 1 at crossroads so 1 cross.
2009 - Seems like a Good Draft. 3 ticks and 5 half ticks.
So the worst year of the lot is 2008 which coincidentally was a year that saw 2 coaches and the team play with no plan, no direction, no heart - a great environment to take your first learning steps in senior football! I'm not going to judge that year too heavily until Hardwick has had a couple of years with those guys. 9 ticks, 10 half ticks and 3 crosses out of 22 picks of almost solely kids in their first years of football. Judge him against his peers and tell me how he stacks up.
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2006 - Good Result draft wise at the moment. 4 ticks, 1 now playing elsewhere and showing potential so 1 half tick, 1 cross.
2007 - Only Cotchin at this stage - so probably not a good result so far. But only 4 picks so 1 tick, 2 playing seniors and showing potential so 2 half ticks, 1 cross.
2008 - Poor Result draft wise at the moment. 1 tick even for the short term, 2 showing potential so 2 half ticks, 1 at crossroads so 1 cross.
2009 - Seems like a Good Draft. 3 ticks and 5 half ticks.
So the worst year of the lot is 2008 which coincidentally was a year that saw 2 coaches and the team play with no plan, no direction, no heart - a great environment to take your first learning steps in senior football! I'm not going to judge that year too heavily until Hardwick has had a couple of years with those guys. 9 ticks, 10 half ticks and 3 crosses out of 22 picks of almost solely kids in their first years of football. Judge him against his peers and tell me how he stacks up.
Youre being extremely generous with the ticks on afew players smoke :lol
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2006 - Good Result draft wise at the moment. 4 ticks, 1 now playing elsewhere and showing potential so 1 half tick, 1 cross.
2007 - Only Cotchin at this stage - so probably not a good result so far. But only 4 picks so 1 tick, 2 playing seniors and showing potential so 2 half ticks, 1 cross.
2008 - Poor Result draft wise at the moment. 1 tick even for the short term, 2 showing potential so 2 half ticks, 1 at crossroads so 1 cross.
2009 - Seems like a Good Draft. 3 ticks and 5 half ticks.
So the worst year of the lot is 2008 which coincidentally was a year that saw 2 coaches and the team play with no plan, no direction, no heart - a great environment to take your first learning steps in senior football! I'm not going to judge that year too heavily until Hardwick has had a couple of years with those guys. 9 ticks, 10 half ticks and 3 crosses out of 22 picks of almost solely kids in their first years of football. Judge him against his peers and tell me how he stacks up.
Youre being extremely generous with the ticks on afew players smoke :lol
Reiwoldt, Edwards, Connors, Collins, Cotchin, Cousins, Martin, Griffiths, Astbury.
Which of those do you think shouldn't get a tick Ramps? :thumbsup
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I HAVE a problem with your half ticks more than anything smoke. Anyway lets all look forward to the next draft.
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I HAVE a problem with your half ticks more than anything smoke. Anyway lets all look forward to the next draft.
Yep, fair enough but the half ticks are only based on potential and these are all kids within the first 1-4 years of their careers so I'm comfortable with most of them. Just makes me rile up when Jackson gets whacked, when his record demands anything but.
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FJ didn't pick Kingsley, Rance, Hislop or Cousins so take them out.
He's done alright with one arm tied behind his back.
You'd be amazed at how different a draft can turn out when you actually have more than one recruiter on the ground, you're coach and football director aren't trading away picks, and someone with a bloody clue is actually developing the talent when it arrives rather than letting it rot.
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Kingsley & Cousins he didn't have any input on, but Hislop and Rance were definitely his selections. He also wanted Scott Selwood but didn't think he would still be there at Pick 19 so it was traded for McMahon
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Kingsley & Cousins he didn't have any input on, but Hislop and Rance were definitely his selections. He also wanted Scott Selwood but didn't think he would still be there at Pick 19 so it was traded for McMahon
Sorry Infamy but I don't believe that is correct
He didn't want the club to give up pick number 19 he wanted it kept. Others made the call on trading for McMahon, FJ had nothing to do with it.
I will repeat he wanted pick 19 kept
:thumbsup
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Kingsley & Cousins he didn't have any input on, but Hislop and Rance were definitely his selections. He also wanted Scott Selwood but didn't think he would still be there at Pick 19 so it was traded for McMahon
So that makes it 8 ticks, 10 half ticks and 2 crosses in his 4 years to date. Again, still waiting on someone to come up with one single shred of evidence that says he is part of any problem at our club or is doing a worse job than any other club's recruiting manager.
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Kingsley & Cousins he didn't have any input on, but Hislop and Rance were definitely his selections. He also wanted Scott Selwood but didn't think he would still be there at Pick 19 so it was traded for McMahon
Sorry Infamy but I don't believe that is correct
He didn't want the club to give up pick number 19 he wanted it kept. Others made the call on trading for McMahon, FJ had nothing to do with it.
I will repeat he wanted pick 19 kept
:thumbsup
Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest he wanted us trading Pick 19, but I can see how I wrote it may have come across that way.
Scott Selwood & Rance were the ones he wanted with Pick 17 & 19, but he was doubtful that either or both would slip that far to us
Turned out both did so he would have been absolutely gutted that Pick 19 was traded
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Thought Miller jumped at Rance and Hislop was a Wallace/Cameron selection, along with Thomson???
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This isn't knocking FJ specifically, but how on earth was Rance rated higher across the board (talking all clubs) than Pears? Pears plays tall, is quicker off the mark, better closing speed and better skills. Sometimes find it head shakingly amusing at how the industry rate certain types.
Selwood isn't much chop imo so no loss there, a lot of people rave on about Ward, but his footskills arent any good and in a poor side like ours would be exposed, whereas at the doggies he's sheltered.
The only thing that has really irked me with our drafting was not taking more kids in 2007 and 2008. No recruiter gets it all right so lets be realistic, but that is the very reason why rebuilding clubs should be taking more kids - to give themselves a better chance of finding keepers.
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Thought Miller jumped at Rance and Hislop was a Wallace/Cameron selection, along with Thomson???
Miller had nothing to do with recruiting by 2007, Francis was full time head of recruitment after the 2005 draft and Miller was on the way out of the club entirely
I think the last remaining involvement Miller had in recruiting was the 2006 draft as he wanted Renouf, but Jackson had final say and took Riewoldt so even back then Miller's involvement was reduced.
Jackson rated Hislop very highly as a junior back in 2006 so he would have had some say in his taking in the draft
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Miller had nothing to do with recruiting by 2007, Francis was full time head of recruitment after the 2005 draft and Miller was on the way out of the club entirely
I think the last remaining involvement Miller had in recruiting was the 2006 draft as he wanted Renouf, but Jackson had final say and took Riewoldt so even back then Miller's involvement was reduced.
Jackson rated Hislop very highly as a junior back in 2006 so he would have had some say in his taking in the draft
Ah. Maybe I just remember Miller doing some circle jerking after we got Rance and was sure Hislop was Cameron padding the list for Wallace.
Agree with Tony Montana, the disgrace is how little the club has taken from the draft.
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oh deary me lets coveniently forget 2005.
jon at 8
hughes at 24
casserley at 40 all gone.
and i know the defenders of all things richmond will say he was only part time. apparently so was greg miller when it came to recruiting.
how about 06
white - psd or i suppose the recruiting officer has no say in psd picks as well. what an ordinary player.
polak - pick 42 and down grade. oh thats right cant include him hes a trade and francis doesnt go near them or have any say in them lol. ironically pick 42 was used on houli.
riewoldt - credit where its due a solid choice but our desperate need of talls actually bought this choice down to two picks. jack or sellar. not jacksons domain but how ironic they both rated jack and thought he would be gone by pick 13 having traded out of pick 8.
edwards - pick 26 a valuable pick that imo has not been used well.
connors - pick 58 jury is out for me his disposal and brain fades may see him fail. had a passable second half to this yr. it is yet to be seen if he can continue and actually become consistent. for where he was taken a decent pick. i consider him more of a core list footballer than being anything special
peterson - pick 60 worth the punt at this pick you do expect a high fail rate with later picks.
collins - pick 73 shows plenty of potential should become a solid afl player still has not established himself yet and after 4yrs cannot afford any slip ups.
i would have to give them a pass for this draft
now to 07
idiot kicksley - pre season yeah i know he has nothing to do with trades.
graham - rookie well he met a need and worth a punt but hes a very ordinary footballer.
king - rookie should never have been looked at yeah he played some okay footy at 26 in the second half of the yr. very limited footballer.
cotchin - hooray at least they took the obvious one. blind freddy would have taken him. sheesh even the eagles desperately tried to find a way to get him.
rance - pick 18 geez we stuffed up this pick what was the criteria they used again.
putt - pick 51 gonski im led to believe we took him here because another club was apparently interested. great process hey.
mcmahon - lol pick 19 wacko jacko had no say apparently.
morton - pick 35 cant give any credit here he knows nothing about trades. for what its worth i felt we payed overs for him still do.
sheesh take cotchin out and its terrible.
im loath to make any judgement on 08 and 09 just to early to call. in 08 vickery and post were taken, both talls and patience and time is the key word here before judgment can be made.
one we did take in 08 was hislop i have to ask do the defenders of him think he had any input at all in us getting him after all hes a mature recruit and fj would have nothing to do with those.
seems to me his performance is very debateable but of more concern is the list management which is rightly pointed out not jacksons domain though i think he would have some sort of input into this area.especially when we have had such a limited footy dept.
no the one who has to be questioned in that area is cameron.
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I think i have said this before but i will say it again!
Most of the picks we have taken high would have been taken high by another club if we didn't take them first. It is our failure to develop players as opposed to identifying talent that has been the failure. Btw Claw, i think most people would give Edwards at pick 26 as a success, he has improved each year!
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I think i have said this before but i will say it again!
Most of the picks we have taken high would have been taken high by another club if we didn't take them first. It is our failure to develop players as opposed to identifying talent that has been the failure. Btw Claw, i think most people would give Edwards at pick 26 as a success, he has improved each year!
without getting into a debate all i have to say is your entitled to your opinion and you may be right. imo at the start of the yr he was very close to delisting /trade. has improved in certain areas which in turn has aided issues like disposal and decision making.
ive seen this many times with our players to me hes a leopard with spots and its my opinion in the long term leopards do not change their spots. im more than happy to be proven wrong.
anyway to me he will be at best perhaps a solid hopefully consistent mid, with 26 i want just a little more than that it may happen but i doubt it.
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Claw, the 06 PSD is in Dec 2005, 07 PSD is in Dec 2006, etc so you have your dates mixed up for starters
Francis had only just joined the club prior to the 2005 draft and even then was only part time
2006 was a brilliant draft for us, you begrudgingly give credit for Riewoldt but try to make excuses for him and write off Edwards who is coming along very nicely.
Francis is our head recruiter, not our list manager so don't blame him for the trades. The only recycled player he's taken is Hislop in the draft and even then we don't know what instructions he was given by Wallace to top up.
How about you review your beloved West Coast's drafting history over 2005-2008, or Hawthorn for that matter, pretty sure you rate Pelchen highly.
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Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest he wanted us trading Pick 19, but I can see how I wrote it may have come across that way.
Scott Selwood & Rance were the ones he wanted with Pick 17 & 19, but he was doubtful that either or both would slip that far to us
Turned out both did so he would have been absolutely gutted that Pick 19 was traded
:thumbsup
Thanks for clearing that up and yep FJ was gutted that pick 19 was traded away
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outside cotchin. There is the 21 yo Coleman winner.
07
gourdis and rance developing tall backs need time.
06
king, Collins, Connors good use of late picks
05
graham an White are servicable
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no the one who has to be questioned in that area is cameron.
agree, cameron worries me more than anyone at RFC
and his haircut doesn't do him any favours