One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: mightytiges on April 24, 2005, 06:47:39 PM
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Half time and already 45 points down :help.
Saints are on full throttle. We're getting smashed all over the ground. Only Stafford is beating his direct opponent. Kellaway, Gas, Tuck, Tivs and Cambo when on are doing ok. Playing a loose man in defence is playing into St Kilda's hands as Aussie Jones and Mcguire are having a field day without an opponent.
Need to go man on man as we've got nothing to lose. We're getting thumped anyway.
Joel with the first of the second half.
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They are trying, but they're up against a team who work very hard. And they didn't learn very well from last year when the Saints showed them how it was done. It's not a shellacking so far, but i'm far from shocked with the result.
Go Tiges, and try and win the second half at least.
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Yeah you're right Moi, we're trying hard but are not surprisingly daylight behind in class.
The most disappointing thing about the game is the dirty games by senior players Richo, Browny and Simmonds.
Thought Deledio did well in that 3rd quarter.
Now Hyde is k.o.ed accidently in a head clash :(
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Looks bad Chris Hyde and the other boy. Hope they are both ok :'(
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It might be a reality check, but i'm pretty pleased with their efforts believe it or not. They have not been blown out of the water considering they were down by so much at half time. I thought we would get done by a lot before the game, because i have a bit of respect for St Kilda and how they work. We would have to have all players playing at their best to beat a committed bunch like that. Not many stars in their team - it's a very even effort right across the board. But i'm seeing more and more Richmond players having a dip, even if their disposal and stuff is not the best under pressure.
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Yep we haven't given up. Kept it "down" to around a 10 goal loss so far.
13 separate goalkickers they have which is unusual for the Saints. They came to play and blew us away from the start.
Richo off. Sadly we won't know the difference :(.
Pettifer 7 point play :P
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Agree we've got a way to go. Some points -
We definitely lack class at the back. I don't know if you can get away with having Kellaway and Gaspar back there. I'm worried about this - Kellaway, Gaspar, Chaffey, Graham are all seasoned pros - so what we see is what we are gonna get.
Okay in the middle, but not at stoppages. Knobel was getting enough of it. When our players got it they were swamped. Not enough commitment from our players - when the saints got first use they were able to run it out in twos and threes.
Not enough defensive pressure from in our 50. Same goes - saints running in twos and threes.
Either crack out the roids or get rid of the runts - unless they have exceptional smarts, I'm talking Hird or Nigel Lappin. Being naturally lean is largely accepted in footy circles. As far as I am concerened this is an inept excuse. Being naturally a poor kick or naturally stupid does not gain you any sympathy. For players like Tivendale and Hall to lack size at this stage of career is an indictment on either or both of their commitment to training and our conditioning staff.
In summary, this victory is almost reassuring in a way. We have seen that the system works against teams we are at least comparable in class with. We are not comparable with the saints. The loss today seems to indicate that we are not riding an emotional wave as in previous years. Once Terry has the cattle, I think we will go a long way. Its gonna be a long way into the 5 years though.
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Agree Jake. No hiding away from the fact it's going to take Terry's whole 5 years to get up to the standard the Saints and Eagles played today. Funny thing is despite today I think we have a good chance to win a few games this year just because most AFL sides are mediocre and there won't be that huge class gap that we saw today.
We definitely lack class at the back. I don't know if you can get away with having Kellaway and Gaspar back there. I'm worried about this - Kellaway, Gaspar, Chaffey, Graham are all seasoned pros - so what we see is what we are gonna get.
The concerning thing is it's going to take a while to replace these guys as our list is thin in regards to middle year players especially KPPs. Our midfield is ok in terms of youngsters coming through but the next draft has to build up our bookends.
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Our team has the kicking skills of a multiple sclerosis unit.
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Agree Jake. No hiding away from the fact it's going to take Terry's whole 5 years to get up to the standard the Saints and Eagles played today. Funny thing is despite today I think we have a good chance to win a few games this year just because most AFL sides are mediocre and there won't be that huge class gap that we saw today.
Spot on. Mediocre is the word. We are not a shambles. We play with a better defined system than previous mediocre Tiger sides, and we play attacking footy. Terry is also a very good matchday coach. Lets not forget he was the only coach in the land who could architect a win over the mighty Essendon side of 2000. We will win more than Hawthorn and the Bulldogs. Are a very real chance of winning more than Collingwood, Carlton and Essendon (what does this say about the plight of Vic clubs?).
The frustrating thing is that Hawthorn could finsh with another round of PPs and us a mid first range choice even though we are coming from the same position. St Kilda are the blueprint of the draft gone mad. Its been done a thousand times, so I wont go on, but basically Thomas and co. did it absolutely perfectly, played pathetically, without heart, brought in young talent, got rid of heartless losers and imported winners, while using the 5 years as his apprenticeship - look what they have now.
Even though we got smashed out of the middle, a lot of the time it was because our young midfield were running ahead of the contest. I don't mind that - we had to take a gamble and the kids were not afraid to have a go.
Time to stay positive. The ingredients are there but it will take some time.
We definitely lack class at the back. I don't know if you can get away with having Kellaway and Gaspar back there. I'm worried about this - Kellaway, Gaspar, Chaffey, Graham are all seasoned pros - so what we see is what we are gonna get.
The concerning thing is it's going to take a while to replace these guys as our list is thin in regards to middle year players especially KPPs. Our midfield is ok in terms of youngsters coming through but the next draft has to build up our bookends.
There is nothing coming through seemingly. We are a tall short. Asking Hall to go on Hamill was not unreasonable given the stage of career he is at - asking Hall to consider whether he thinks he is good enough to be a professional footballer would not be unreasonable either.
It is strange, reading books about footy from 30 years ago, they used to talk about CHB being an easy position to play as your opponent at CHF had such a difficult task. These days with all the rebounding from defence, with the swiftness that the opposition can move the ball it actually takes a cultivated, athletic footballer to play there. We need to resist the urge to throw every tall that comes through up forward, as we are going to have problems down back in a couple of years.
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Our team has the kicking skills of a multiple sclerosis unit.
Not the best analogy John. My mother died from MS at the age of 29.
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Our team has the kicking skills of a multiple sclerosis unit.
John - I don't want to bag Richo, he tried his heart out, and there are many worse footballers on our list, but Plough should modify his rules:
* If Richo marks within range, go back and kick it, if he is outside range, do not kick to a contest. It doesn't make sense - he is not penetrating in the sense that the ball hangs for a long time - the only time we are going to get anything from that is if we have at least two players who can take a contested mark in there, which would be Staff and er Richo.
Desperately need a better kicking option at half-forward. Chaffey and Tivendale, limited human beings, do the right thing and hit it to 30m front and square, but its just hitting and hoping really. Big high hanging drop punts. A big fist from a defender and St. Kilda were away. It is quite strange saying this, but Leon Cameron's retirement has had more effect than I thought it would, much more.
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Our team has the kicking skills of a multiple sclerosis unit.
Not the best analogy John. My mother died from MS at the age of 29.
Sorry Julz I am a prik. :banghead
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We will win more than Hawthorn and the Bulldogs. Are a very real chance of winning more than Collingwood, Carlton and Essendon (what does this say about the plight of Vic clubs?).
The frustrating thing is that Hawthorn could finsh with another round of PPs and us a mid first range choice even though we are coming from the same position.
Brisbane could end up with a higher pick than us the way they're going at the moment :P. While we could get punished for winning two close games :help.
It is strange, reading books about footy from 30 years ago, they used to talk about CHB being an easy position to play as your opponent at CHF had such a difficult task. These days with all the rebounding from defence, with the swiftness that the opposition can move the ball it actually takes a cultivated, athletic footballer to play there. We need to resist the urge to throw every tall that comes through up forward, as we are going to have problems down back in a couple of years.
And to think Glen Jacovich was the best CHB in the comp only 5-10 years ago. Now it's Chad Cornes.
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Tigers below the top echelon
9:40:12 PM Sun 24 April, 2005
Jennifer Witham
Exclusive to richmondfc.com.au
Richmond coach Terry Wallace says the Tigers' 68-point loss to the Saints really sums up where the club is at the moment - in comparison to the stronger teams.
So far this season, Richmond has triumphed over Hawthorn, the Western Bulldogs, and Fremantle at home - the match against St Kilda being its first real test since its round one thumping at the hands of another powerful team in Geelong.
"I think that it's fair to say that where we're at, at the moment, we're not up with the big boys of the competition," he said.
"We've shown twice that we've been in that position, and not been able to compete with two sides that you would expect to be up in the top echelon of the competition.
"We've just got to keep working until we can do that, we said we were coming into the main event today, well, we were knocked out, that's purely and simply the way that the game was played."
He put the 68-point thumping down to the Saints getting on top early, and not relenting enough to allow the Tigers to claw their way back into the game.
"When it was there and needed to be done, early in the game, we just weren't able to compete with them and I think they kicked six unanswered goals in ten minutes of footy and that was really the ball game," Wallace said.
"We were just never really back in the hunt after they broke it open early."
The new-look Richmond forward set-up - comprising Greg Stafford, Troy Simmonds and Matthew Richardson - did not offer any potency, but Wallace criticised the delivery to the forward area as the major cause for lacklustre attacking.
So disappointing was the display, Wallace likened aspects of that area to the Richmond side of 2004 - the one which dropped 14 consecutive games.
"We kicked it to Stafford a couple of times early and he was able to take a couple of contested marks, and then all of a sudden our blokes thought this is simple," he said.
"All they wanted to do was just bomb it up in the air to him, and eventually all they do is just round off their opponents.
"Almost went back 12 months to what I was watching with Richmond last year, and it was Richardson that time, this time it was Stafford fighting three and four blokes, they just round off, peel off, and we never see the ball again."
But Wallace did emphasise that the loss was not the end of the world for the recently-improved Tigers outfit, and outlined the way Richmond will attack the loss to use it to their advantage.
"We sit down and we analyse what went wrong, where we need to improve, and just go through those sorts of actions, that's all we can be doing," he said.
He also spoke of his belief that the approach to next week's match against Port Adelaide as almost being paramount to reflecting on the loss, considering the main downfall for clubs is stringing together consecutive losses.
"If you don't lose multiple games, you just about make the finals," he said.
"As bad as what one game is, you've got to deal with it, analyse it, assess it, and then really strongly start looking at the next one to make sure it doesn't happen two weeks in a row.
"If you can achieve that, you're still making ground and you're still going somewhere in this competition."
While many will use the Anzac Day public holiday for fun and frivolity, the Tigers will use it to dissect their loss to ensure they approach their upcoming clash with Port with an optimistic mindset.
"Public holiday for most tomorrow, but not for us, we'll do all our analytical stuff, I'll do my stuff tonight, and we'll analyse the game as a group again tomorrow."
http://afl.com.au/default.asp?pg=news&spg=display&articleid=198329
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Main event over for Tigers in 12 minuntes
25 April 2005
Herald Sun
Scott Gullan
WHEN the Richmond players started filing into Telstra Dome about 5pm, Terry Wallace was ready to greet them with his theme for the evening: "Welcome to the Main Event."
While three wins in a row to long-suffering Tigers fans means cancelling holiday bookings for September, the new coach is a realist and he knew that facing St Kilda in front of 50,000 spectators would be the real indicator of where his team sat in the football landscape.
After 12 minutes Wallace would have heard the sound of a bell inside his head, signalling the end of this "Main Event".
If a towel had been nearby, he would have been within his rights to chuck it in then.
By that stage, Wallace had watched St Kilda kick four goals to one with the last coming from Aaron Fiora, the fleet-footed midfielder he traded upon arrival at Punt Rd, and would have suspected what everyone else inside the stadium knew was coming.
A Saints goal avalanche.
Right out of last year's playbook, it was starting to roll and by the time the quarter-time siren sounded it was eight goals to two. Bout over.
There were plenty of Tigers fighting out of their division.
How do you think Mark Chaffey felt when he walked up to stand next to Nick Dal Santo? He is battling to hang on to a career while the Saints young gun is expected to have a Brownlow Medal around his neck within a couple of years.
The other midfield match-ups saw Shane Tuck, Mark Coughlan and Chris Hyde go head-to-head with Lenny Hayes, Luke Ball and Robert Harvey. Good honest battlers v class, class and more class.
That was the same scenario all over the park. The tale of two positions tells much of the story. Centre half-back and the all-important crumbing forward pocket.
For St Kilda, Matt Maguire was the man up against the much-hyped Troy Simmonds, with his opposite number at the other end, veteran Hawk Mark Graham standing Justin Koschitzke.
At halftime Maguire was the Saints' equal-leading possession winner with 14, including 10 kicks and one goal. Graham had just one kick and one handball.
It's so obvious that Maguire is from the same neck of the woods as Brisbane superstar Jonathan Brown.
The Warrnambool boys share a love of doing brave things and at the five-minute mark of the second quarter Maguire produced a mark running backwards into a pack that would have made his mate proud.
In the end it took a horrific head clash to stop Maguire who, before he left on a stretcher in the last quarter, had shown the Saints faithful that he was finally over the chronic groin complaint that made him a non-factor in last year's finals series.
The other case study was Stephen Milne v Andrew Krakouer. The often annoying Saint had one of his best games for some time, kicking five goals from 17 possessions that surprisingly included six handballs.
While his ability to get at the feet of Fraser Gehrig was a highlight, Milne's defensive pressure in tandem with Aaron Hamill was a feature of the Saints all night.
As for Krakouer, he seems to be the exception to the rule of most at Punt Rd in regards to the new coach. While most have flourished and seemed rejuvenated under Wallace, the talented Aboriginal has gone the other way.
Last night he found himself on the bottom of the Tigers stats sheet with just four touches and one goal.
A visit to former mentor Danny Frawley should be on the cards this week.
It's back to the drawingboard for Wallace.
He has a lot of players just going around, with Simmonds and his other ruckman Trent Knobel again disappointing.
Ray Hall is not the answer in defence and was taught a lesson in how to attack the ball by Hamill, while the likes of Kayne Pettifer and Wayne Campbell don't do enough.
Last week Matthew Richardson and Nathan Brown were fantastic and the Tigers won by 48 points. This week they were well held and the Tigers lost by 68.
Sound familiar?
http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/common/story_page/0,8033,15074628%255E19771,00.html
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Slick Saints hand out lesson
25 April 2005
Herald Sun
Michael Horan
A DELUDED Richmond supporter uttered joyously the sleeping giant was awake, moments after his team had secured its third successive victory a little over a week ago.
But an alert and superior Saints made the Tigers look like sleepwalkers at Telstra Dome last night as they careered to a imposing 68-point win in front of a sellout crowd of 49,580 fans.
Perceptions vary dramatically in a tribal sport such as football.
The Richmond faithful started the night full of false hope that their Tigers had finally arrived as a serious top-eight contender.
They shuffled out of the Dome three hours later with a decidedly more realistic point of view.
St Kilda was slick, stunning in its execution, and looking very much like the side that went within a kick of reaching last year's Grand Final.
Then again, for fans, who over the past year have become accustomed to brilliant wins and finals action, it came with perhaps one slightly negative aspect: it was only Richmond.
The Saints clearly showed the gulf between serious finals aspirants and those that are still a long way off the pace.
St Kilda dominated the midfield and chopped up Richmond's defence.
The Saints blue-chip midfielders, dual Brownlow medallist Robert Harvey, Lenny Hayes and Nick Dal Santo, exploded into action from the first bounce to set up an eight-goal first term for St Kilda.
That set the tone for a clinic in which St Kilda won every quarter and all over the ground.
In the defensive half, Austinn Jones and Matt Maguire, who was carried from the ground mid-way through the final term after he and opposing No. 31 Chris Hyde collided and knocked each other out, controlled the clearances and set up the rich supply through the corridor via their classy onballers.
The result was a potent rate of conversion that boasted 13 Saints sharing a 22-goal booty.
Fraser Gehrig was held to just four by Darren Gaspar – a fair effort from the Tiger defender, considering the amount of supply coming into the Saints forward 50 – but right beside him Stephen Milne proved a serial pest with his swag of 5.2.
Conversely, Richmond's front half was, save for a four-goal return by ruckman Greg Stafford, barren.
Tiger hero and trump forward Matthew Richardson went into the clash as the AFL's leading goalkicker and also No. 1 in marks. He was kept to just three behinds by Max Hudghton, and as many grabs.
By game's end, Jones, Harvey, Dal Santo, Raphael Clarke, former Tiger Aaron Fiora and Brendon Goddard had enjoyed 20 or more possessions, and all of them proved sharper and more dangerous than Richmond's high possession getters.
A factor the stats often don't show is physical presence.
Former Saint skipper Aaron Hamill was listed for nine touches only, but his strength and constant presence at the contest was invaluable for a Saints side still without this year's captain Nick Riewoldt.
St Kilda had a 28-point buffer at the first change and it grew to 45 by halftime.
With the gap more than 50 by the final change, the Richmond dream was long gone. All that remained was a question of how harsh the football lesson would be.
In the aftermath is sober reflection – with eyes wide open.
In Round 1, the Tigers went up against Geelong, another 2004 preliminary finalist, and were smashed by 62 points.
Then they squeaked past Hawthorn and the Bulldogs – 15th and 14th last year – before last week thumping Fremantle at the MCG. But Freo is a side that suffers travel sickness if it ventures any further east than Burswood casino.
Now Round 5 is gone and St Kilda made sure the Tigers got their reality check by ensuring they were well and truly dusted.
http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/common/story_page/0,8033,15074785%255E19771,00.html
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As for Krakouer, he seems to be the exception to the rule of most at Punt Rd in regards to the new coach. While most have flourished and seemed rejuvenated under Wallace, the talented Aboriginal has gone the other way.
Last night he found himself on the bottom of the Tigers stats sheet with just four touches and one goal.
A visit to former mentor Danny Frawley should be on the cards this week.
LMFAOOOOOOOOOO@visiting Frawley for advice. WHY DO YOU THINK HE IS PHUCKED UP IN THE FIRST PLACE?
It's back to the drawingboard for Wallace.
He has a lot of players just going around, with Simmonds and his other ruckman Trent Knobel again disappointing.
Knobel was ok, Simmonds needs a spell if he fails next week.
Ray Hall is not the answer in defence and was taught a lesson in how to attack the ball by Hamill, while the likes of Kayne Pettifer and Wayne Campbell don't do enough.
Campbell has been getting 18.4 touches on average from little more than half a game each week. He's not the problem. :thumbsup
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The other midfield match-ups saw Shane Tuck, Mark Coughlan and Chris Hyde. Good honest battlers.
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Hey just forget Cogs is still working his way back to full match fitness from his groin problems. He was stuffed by the 3rd quarter.
Wayne Campbell don't do enough.
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Cambo only came onto the ground in the second half of each quarter and was quite good in the things he did. Yeah he's not the player he was but give the guy a break in his last season of footy ::).
A DELUDED Richmond supporter uttered joyously the sleeping giant was awake, moments after his team had secured its third successive victory a little over a week ago
Let's just ignore the fact that the majority of Tiger supporters know exactly where we are at despite those 3 wins and are willing to be patient ::).
Sheesh the press have enjoyed sticking the boot into us today :P.
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Hey just forget Cogs is still working his way back to full match fitness from his groin problems. He was stuffed by the 3rd quarter.
And he still beat Ball easily.
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A visit to former mentor Danny Frawley should be on the cards this week.(Quote by Jennifer Witham
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Great advice from a woman who knows jack about anything.
It would be like getting 4 months into drug rehabilitation and deciding to visit your old dealer for some advice."
Frawley would tell him to go to StKilda anyway,the rotten dog.
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No reality check here - I knew where we were at and so should all of us. We just need to build throughout this season and next and then I may start to expect things.
I think we tried and didn't give up but as someone close to me at the game said even Micky Mouse could coach the Saints.
They are just an awesome side - they obviously came switched on and gave us no mercy at all, just thier relentless attack on the ball even when the game was all said and done - Far out. TW should give all the players a copy of this tape and make them all memorise it. Play by Play.
I would like to see some of the crumbers up forward with all the big boofheads if the ball hits the ground it's gone :banghead
At least have a couple of guys running in with the flight of the ball so there is someone on the ground.
Like some one else mentioned should have gone one on one. Dont know how much it would of helped really as in all even contests the saints just seemed to have a bit of a sixth sense and found a teammate and a way out. They just seem to know each others games really well. Sayin that at least it would have given our players a lesson in accountability.
Dont get me wrong here - we are on the right track early stages as it is and a few more victories are on the way. We have a game plan and looked ok in patches in the previous 3 weeks - and still reckon we may pull off a couple of surprises - But that wasn't one of them yesterday :cheers
GO TIGERS
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No reality check here - I knew where we were at and so should all of us. We just need to build throughout this season and next and then I may start to expect things.
100% Cub.
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Difference was :
* There was no space this week inside our 50. We havent the passing skills of Saints to pin point passes to our forwards advantage, especially when there are loose defenders.
* When the goals were meant to be kicked early in the game to keep us competitive, we missed them. Their small backmen ran the ball out with skill and precision, whereas our backmen struggled. (Well done Kellaway and Gas)
* The passing to Richo was either not there or poo. The passing to Simmonds was not existent? Can we not use him better?
* Why did we have 2 free defenders early on? Is it not a case of panic? So Saints had two loose players and moved the ball out nicely...Fiora, Clarke, Jones ran the ball out and out and out...
IMO Saints and Geelong will finish top 3 along with West Coast. Saints and StKilda were unlucky not to have played in last years Grand Final. So in hindsight I am not dissapointed, I realise we are still learning and it will take time to get the confidence up and running. We are on the right track, hang in there.
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A DELUDED Richmond supporter uttered joyously the sleeping giant was awake, moments after his team had secured its third successive victory a little over a week ago.
The most deluded in the last 3 weeks have been the media - who got very excited over a few wins over average teams (and trust me Freo are average at best - the deluded media are the ones who think otherwise ;D). Every single person who went there yesterday or watched on TV if they were being true to themselves would know that yesterday was going to tell us where we were at (as they say in the cliches)
I am many things but deluded is definitely not one of them - we have a long long way to go. What yesterday again proved and what has been apparent so far in season 2005 is that there are maybe 4 really good teams who are far and away better than the rest and then thereis the rest that are very even if everything is going well - that's not being delusional that's being realistic.
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The concerning thing is it's going to take a while to replace these guys as our list is thin in regards to middle year players especially KPPs. Our midfield is ok in terms of youngsters coming through but the next draft has to build up our bookends.
A sobering thought indeed MT, especially if you put Riewoldt on a HFF - what would we have done then? We need essentially an entire new backline over the next 3 or 4 drafts.
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until our team matures as a group under tw we will slip up every now and then.
we just didnt do all the things that we did the previuos week and that bec the saints didnt give us room , but its all about learning, what was dissappointing as tiv said, we didnt put score board pressure early when we should have been 3 goals up!
the trend of trend of teh game was, we win the hard ball, win the cleearance , move the ball fwd, pick teh wrong option, cre8 a rebound, dont man up, they briongthe ball in fast and walla goal!
everytime we should have m they did!
apparantaly we won the clearances and hard ball gates, matched them inside 50's and won the contested marks, and lost by 12 goals!
just shows we need to play more man on man footy noy this zone crap!
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Spot on X all Sunday proved was what we already knew we are not a top 4 side were 10 goals from there, but do we still rank as a bottom 4 side that is the question, I think not......maybe.
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I think the first test is to become a bottom 4 side. We weren't a bottom 4 side in 2004, we were the bottom side in 2004. I think that 6/7 wins, generally improved competitiveness and a 13th placing would still be an improvement, even though it's "still" bottom 4. Having said that, a move to 11th/12th would feel better.