One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: one-eyed on April 29, 2014, 11:48:57 AM
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Exposing the Tigers' underbelly
Michael Gleeson
The Age
April 29, 2014
Since round 19 last year when Richmond beat Hawthorn by 42 points the Tigers have won five games and lost six.
That equation is a better reflection of where the Tigers are at than either their win over Hawthorn last year, or their heavy loss to the Hawks on Sunday. And make no mistake, it was a heavy defeat made kinder by Hawthorn’s 4.7 in the first quarter.
Richmond arguably over-achieved last year and, consequently this year, is battling to repeat the performance. Coach Damien Hardwick might be right that it has, in part, only taken the absence of a few key players to expose this underbelly.
After Sunday's loss, Hardwick opined the loss of three of his best six players – Brett Deledio, Alex Rance and Ivan Maric.
Generally it is correct that teams need their best players to consistently win games. Lose your best players and everything else must go right. At Richmond it has exposed the gulf between the better players and the plethora of battlers.
His argument was made to look thin by the fact that North Melbourne - a side that finished outside the eight last year - had beaten Fremantle in Perth the same weekend without Scott Thompson, Daniel Wells and Andrew Swallow.
Rance might be in Richmond’s best six players but if he is, then that is a reflection on where the club is at. Rance is a capable player but not elite. He is the best Richmond has got and while David Astbury has been playing his best football in a key defence post, Rance would have helped them.
The Rance was not there because he broke his foot riding his bike makes his injury all the more difficult to accept for the Tigers.
The fact the bullocking Maric was replaced by recruit Shaun Hampson - who has taken just seven marks in his five games this year - also reveals where Richmond is being let down.
What the injuries do not explain is the abject loss of run from the side. Hardwick noted it had lost fluency. Missing Deledio - an extremely durable player, who prior to this Achilles problem, played 146 consecutive games - has helped expose its slow, tentative and stilted game.
Opposition sides have sat on Trent Cotchin and not needed to worry about anyone else with Deledio out. No one is regularly breaking the lines and moving the ball on.
Daniel Jackson looks to be fretting at the idea of having to kick the ball and so is holding onto it and turning in circles until someone arrives to handball to. It doesn’t help fluency when your best-and-fairest winner does not look like he wants to kick.
Mind you, it does help to have someone to kick to. Jack Riewoldt worked hard at the weekend, which is not something that can always be said, but he was the sole choice. Ben Griffiths played a role only as a decoy forward leading Brian Lake away from Riewoldt. And then the Tigers had nothing: no small forward to worry about; no mid-sized forward to threaten; no harassing defensive forward to rescue the ball from defenders.
Ty Vickery, a player who has been heavily invested in, was so out of form he had to be dropped and this also illustrates the Tigers' problem. He is a better player than Griffiths, though not a star, but he needed to be dropped.
These are not one-week maladies. These are not the over-reactions of a loss to the premier - a side the Tigers had beaten at their two previous meetings - they are questions about a side that finished fifth and still holds hopes of a higher finish this year.
Richmond has not lacked for endeavour in its losses this year. It has lacked for class and this was - in fairness to Hardwick - ever more evident with Deledio out.
The lack of class is a consequence of the Tigers, like the Brisbane Lions, being the casualties of timing.
The Tigers bottomed out at the worst possible time. When they got Brandon Ellis in 2011 at pick 15, GWS had 11 picks ahead of them. Take GWS out and they get pick four instead. After their horrid season in 2009 they got Reece Conca at pick six - but only after Gold Coast had the first three picks. In 2012 they got Nick Vlastuin at pick nine after the Giants had the first three picks.
All clubs were penalised by new teams needing to be built through the draft, but none more so than those who had the misfortune to be in need of their own rebuild at the time.
Richmond managed to finish fifth last year despite this draft denial, which in itself speaks to the idea of outperforming itself, but it took only two or three injuries, a drop of form and a challenge to the game plan for the underbelly to be exposed.
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/exposing-the-tigers-underbelly-20140428-zr0wy.html#ixzz30CKAXbme
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Tyrone Vickery is NOT a better footballer than Benny.
He has been given many more opportunities and that is all.
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The Tigers bottomed out at the worst possible time. When they got Brandon Ellis in 2011 at pick 15, GWS had 11 picks ahead of them. Take GWS out and they get pick four instead. After their horrid season in 2009 they got Reece Conca at pick six - but only after Gold Coast had the first three picks. In 2012 they got Nick Vlastuin at pick nine after the Giants had the first three picks.
All clubs were penalised by new teams needing to be built through the draft, but none more so than those who had the misfortune to be in need of their own rebuild at the time.
Couldn't agree more with this.
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magic thats a cop out. Look at the pies as an example and see how their under 50 gamers are coping with the big league.
No one forced them to play Maric last when clearly he wasnt right. No one forced them to get rid our only fast runner. No one forces them to play the same blokes week in week out then when poo hits the fan they have to run around and start picking youngsters. No one forces them to recruit Graham and not attempt to Mcevoy. No one forces them to recruit Thomas and then select him ahead of Miles.
Pies team who played Essendon Anzac day. I put this in because this is a team with a few stars but many players who play for their jumper. I soldier out one soldier in is what clarkson says.
Dayne Beams
Sidebottom
Dane Swan
Jamie Elliott
Luke Ball
Clinton Young
Harry Lumumba
Tyson Goldsack
Tom Langdon
Brodie Grundy
Jarrod Witts
Travis Cloke
Jesse White
Brent Macaffer
Josh Thomas
Jarryd Blair
Nick Maxwell
Lachlan Keeffe
Alan Toovey
Jack Frost
Alex Fasolo
its called pride, endeavour and willingness to work for your teammates. Outside of about 3 players our playing list are weak as pee and are like that because the coach allows them to be.
I dont particulary like Buckely persona but he is a perfectionist in everything he does. The way he speaks the way he act in public and he would demand excellence from his club as was evident last year when he offloaded some favourite sons.
Dimma will be joining the centrelink queue very soon unless he adopts a similar stance.
He joined our clubs all guns blazing we are "not taking short cuts" but gee look at us now.
i reckon he is as weak and timid as Titch Tambling
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We had to take other measures during compromised drafts that's a fact however I still question the direction we were heading with the game plan in mind and the types of players we recruited. We are suffering from a distinct lack of line breakers and not one of the players recruited has speed on their side to help with this issue. All other sides have players with these qualities. Without line breakers we basically have to work harder to break down opposition defensive structures, hard running and high disposal efficiency is required, we unfortunately don't have many players with those attributes either.
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Tyrone Vickery is NOT a better footballer than Benny.
He has been given many more opportunities and that is all.
:clapping :clapping
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magic thats a cop out. Look at the pies as an example and see how their under 50 gamers are coping with the big league.
9 players remain in that side from the 2010 premiership.
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Tyrone has been crap.
what I saw of griff on sat was what I saw last year in the reserves ,a player not making contests.This needs to change quickly for his and the clubs sake
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Thought this thread might be about seediness, floozies and the like.
Unfortunately just another RFC is crap thread
Oh well
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What's griff done at sen level, someone recap I must have blinked and missed it, he can barely chalk up more than 7-8 possessions and beyond taking marks over Eddie betts types has proved next to useless when clutching marks i50. TV kicks goals even when stinking it up. He s 10 times the player griff is right now, fact ...don't get me started in Hampson , he should be out of the team
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Winston Churchill would have loved Hampson..never has so little been done by such a spud
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Hey G , did azza Edwards get injured vs franger?
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What's griff done at sen level, someone recap I must have blinked and missed it, he can barely chalk up more than 7-8 possessions and beyond taking marks over Eddie betts types has proved next to useless when clutching marks i50. TV kicks goals even when stinking it up. He s 10 times the player griff is right now, fact ...don't get me started in Hampson , he should be out of the team
Atleast Griffiths is having a fair dinkum crack at it, he also works hard in terms of the one percenters, TV doesnt do anything like that, hes had a very easy ride has Tyrone, he deserves to be playing reserves at the moment.
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What's griff done at sen level, someone recap I must have blinked and missed it, he can barely chalk up more than 7-8 possessions and beyond taking marks over Eddie betts types has proved next to useless when clutching marks i50. TV kicks goals even when stinking it up. He s 10 times the player griff is right now, fact ...don't get me started in Hampson , he should be out of the team
FFS is all you look at Goals kicked?
If so, you should also count against Tyrone all the goals that have been kicked by the opposition because his stupid play has resulted in the ball ending up being run down the field and they have scored at will.
Also count all the times he has been behind his man looking for a cheap mark or goal. Then he cannot be bothered chasing, tackling or blocking his opponent when he hasn't got the ball.
Most of his goals are unimpressive too.
At least Griff takes contested grabs, contributes to inside 50's and generally makes much better decisions with the ball in hand. His kicking breaks zones too. And he chases and tackles too.
FFS open your eyes BJ - cheap goals are not a good measuring stick!
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What's griff done at sen level, someone recap I must have blinked and missed it, he can barely chalk up more than 7-8 possessions and beyond taking marks over Eddie betts types has proved next to useless when clutching marks i50. TV kicks goals even when stinking it up. He s 10 times the player griff is right now, fact ...don't get me started in Hampson , he should be out of the team
and when does TV get more than 7-8 possessions? This season Tyrone averages 7 touches a game, (Id say that would just about be his career average too), Griff this season averages 10 and lays over 4 tackles a game, plus takes his fair share of contested grabs, yeah he needs to get better but he's has had a far bigger impact on games than Ty whose been nothing but a passenger. Has been downright disgraceful the way hes performed
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What's griff done at sen level, someone recap I must have blinked and missed it, he can barely chalk up more than 7-8 possessions and beyond taking marks over Eddie betts types has proved next to useless when clutching marks i50. TV kicks goals even when stinking it up. He s 10 times the player griff is right now, fact.
I see old bo's forgotten to take his alzheimer's medication again.
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I hate to bring up the Port comparison again but they were in a far worse position than we were through the compromised drafts yet they managed to choose wisely and bring actual match winners into there side, guys who can change games not just honest footballers.
Wines, Wingard, Monfries, Ebert, Impy and White are the only guys that have come into the side since they finished second last 2 seasons ago they haven't had a second or third rounder from the past 3 drafts come into the side. It's been these 6 guys plus a coach that knows what he's doing that has propelled Port up the ladder. Blaming the compromised draft is a joke.
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Just on the Griff thing. How many games has he played? 20? less?
TV has played 4 times that. Doesnt looks like he wants to play many more though.
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I hate to bring up the Port comparison again but they were in a far worse position than we were through the compromised drafts yet they managed to choose wisely and bring actual match winners into there side, guys who can change games not just honest footballers.
Wines, Wingard, Monfries, Ebert, Impy and White are the only guys that have come into the side since they finished second last 2 seasons ago they haven't had a second or third rounder from the past 3 drafts come into the side. It's been these 6 guys plus a coach that knows what he's doing that has propelled Port up the ladder. Blaming the compromised draft is a joke.
Spot on.
At Port its;
A coach that demands the best.
All the players are on board.
He says "we will never give up!" And that's just what they do!
Looks like everyone's on the same page
There's no big heads & its team first.
At Richmond its;
A Prima Donna Paradise!
A Ballerina Battlefield!
A Limpwristed Lickfest!
A Mediocrity Mecca!
A Sissy Society!
A Fairy Festival!
A Lollipop Lala-land!
A Nancy-boy Nirvana!
An Egg-clubs Eden!
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The culture is fuckd.
It's engrained.
The place is severely lacking genuine soul from those who matter.
More a club than a team.
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We are getting exposed for poor drafting decisions. Eg fail to draft a small forward and failure to invest in youth in the main draft. We have lost leg speed eg loss of White and we are paying for it. We have failed completely to recruit a genuine line breaker.
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Its actually ridiculous.
You couldnt script poorer decision making over the last 30 years without it looking like a slapstick sports movie.
But somehow we always find a way.
Anyone sick of this poo?
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What's griff done at sen level, someone recap I must have blinked and missed it, he can barely chalk up more than 7-8 possessions and beyond taking marks over Eddie betts types has proved next to useless when clutching marks i50. TV kicks goals even when stinking it up. He s 10 times the player griff is right now, fact ...don't get me started in Hampson , he should be out of the team
10 times the player? Don't think so.
Griffiths has been good in the ruck by comparison with Ty and is also putting on a lot more pressure around the ground. Prefer Griff at CHF but yes he needs to continue to work on his game because he is a long way still from where he needs to be.
Ty has only really shown that he can really only play deep towards goal. Exactly where Jack is playing right now..
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We are getting exposed for poor drafting decisions. Eg fail to draft a small forward and failure to invest in youth in the main draft. We have lost leg speed eg loss of White and we are paying for it. We have failed completely to recruit a genuine line breaker.
But why does this always happen?
Why is there always a merry-go-round of poor decisions?
Why do guys like Hardwick, nurtured at successful clubs, uncompromising on field in his toughness & endeavour only to compromise on everything he seemingly stood for?
Why do our players become Prima Donnas when they haven't achieved anything?
Why is it that we struggle so much just to make finals?
Why is it that poor drafting is seemingly always an issue?
Why is it that development is always a problem besides the $$$ the club has invested?
Why do we ask the same questions & bitch about the same issues every 3-5 years???
....its Tigeritis.
It's bad culture: A lot probably are rolling there eyes but that's what I call it.
OX says the club lost its soul and I totally agree with that. It probably happened sometime in '83 & it's progressively got worse ever since.
Nothing will change unless this is addressed first. I always hope that a new coach will do this and there's no way of really knowing until you see results come to fruition.
Everyone starts to play for each other, there's hardness, there's no spectators, a youngsters slots in without any disruption to team continuity, consistant performances, never give up attitudes, fight for one another, etc etc etc.
It's not just bad decisions, those decisions are a by product of poor culture.
At Richmond it's worse than any club.
Because of us, starved of success as we are we go crazy with excitement at anything remotely positive and that frenzy blinds the club of the its true status.
We need a strong leader that can withstand the overlay of hype and stand firm on the foundations of excellence he implements at the beginning. Someone who is uncompromising with high standards of excellence and will not waver from its coarse.
Only someone with strong convictions that is willing to see through the frenzy that masks mediocrity.
I hope we can find someone before the throngs of supporters we have turn apathetic to footy. I know my teenage kids aren't like me and I reckon when I get grand kids it might already be too late.
I truly thought Hardwick was the one but he's totally blinded. He had the disease and he already a goner.
Who can be this footy savior for us?
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We are getting exposed for poor drafting decisions. Eg fail to draft a small forward and failure to invest in youth in the main draft. We have lost leg speed eg loss of White and we are paying for it. We have failed completely to recruit a genuine line breaker.
But why does this always happen?
Why is there always a merry-go-round of poor decisions?
Why do guys like Hardwick, nurtured at successful clubs, uncompromising on field in his toughness & endeavour only to compromise on everything he seemingly stood for?
Why do our players become Prima Donnas when they haven't achieved anything?
Why is it that we struggle so much just to make finals?
Why is it that poor drafting is seemingly always an issue?
Why is it that development is always a problem besides the $$$ the club has invested?
Why do we ask the same questions & bitch about the same issues every 3-5 years???
....its Tigeritis.
It's bad culture: A lot probably are rolling there eyes but that's what I call it.
OX says the club lost its soul and I totally agree with that. It probably happened sometime in '83 & it's progressively got worse ever since.
Nothing will change unless this is addressed first. I always hope that a new coach will do this and there's no way of really knowing until you see results come to fruition.
Everyone starts to play for each other, there's hardness, there's no spectators, a youngsters slots in without any disruption to team continuity, consistant performances, never give up attitudes, fight for one another, etc etc etc.
It's not just bad decisions, those decisions are a by product of poor culture.
At Richmond it's worse than any club.
Because of us, starved of success as we are we go crazy with excitement at anything remotely positive and that frenzy blinds the club of the its true status.
We need a strong leader that can withstand the overlay of hype and stand firm on the foundations of excellence he implements at the beginning. Someone who is uncompromising with high standards of excellence and will not waver from its coarse.
Only someone with strong convictions that is willing to see through the frenzy that masks mediocrity.
I hope we can find someone before the throngs of supporters we have turn apathetic to footy. I know my teenage kids aren't like me and I reckon when I get grand kids it might already be too late.
I truly thought Hardwick was the one but he's totally blinded. He had the disease and he already a goner.
Who can be this footy savior for us?
I'm probably on the same wavelength as you my friend but I am prepared to give Hardwick till the end of the year to show us if he has the kahunas to make the tough decisions. This is only because he had us finishing 5th at the end of the home and away season last year. Nothing more. Nothing less.
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Its actually ridiculous.
You couldnt script poorer decision making over the last 30 years without it looking like a slapstick sports movie.
But somehow we always find a way.
Anyone sick of this poo?
Yes, Dookles.
I'm so sick of it that i had to grow up.
Its like, if you take all the grief one has in their personal lives, the RFC consistently represent all those negative emotions and anxieties and display them as a sobering reminder, good things DON'T come to those who wait !
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magic thats a cop out. Look at the pies as an example and see how their under 50 gamers are coping with the big league.
No one forced them to play Maric last when clearly he wasnt right. No one forced them to get rid our only fast runner. No one forces them to play the same blokes week in week out then when poo hits the fan they have to run around and start picking youngsters. No one forces them to recruit Graham and not attempt to Mcevoy. No one forces them to recruit Thomas and then select him ahead of Miles.
Pies team who played Essendon Anzac day. I put this in because this is a team with a few stars but many players who play for their jumper. I soldier out one soldier in is what clarkson says.
Dayne Beams
Sidebottom
Dane Swan
Jamie Elliott
Luke Ball
Clinton Young
Harry Lumumba
Tyson Goldsack
Tom Langdon
Brodie Grundy
Jarrod Witts
Travis Cloke
Jesse White
Brent Macaffer
Josh Thomas
Jarryd Blair
Nick Maxwell
Lachlan Keeffe
Alan Toovey
Jack Frost
Alex Fasolo
its called pride, endeavour and willingness to work for your teammates. Outside of about 3 players our playing list are weak as pee and are like that because the coach allows them to be.
I dont particulary like Buckely persona but he is a perfectionist in everything he does. The way he speaks the way he act in public and he would demand excellence from his club as was evident last year when he offloaded some favourite sons.
Dimma will be joining the centrelink queue very soon unless he adopts a similar stance.
He joined our clubs all guns blazing we are "not taking short cuts" but gee look at us now.
i reckon he is as weak and timid as Titch Tambling
Can we ban this man for gushing over these scumbag arseholes? I nearly threw up, im still dry reaching, this is stuffing blasphemy on a tigers site !
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There is a cultural problem at Richmond in relation to how we play football. When the chips are down too much is left to too few. The financial side of the club is now well managed. Gale is an astute operator as is the President. Maric is the spiritual leader at the club. Maric is one of the few at the club who can rise to a challenge eg his goal against Carlton last year. Maric was recruited from out of the club. In recent times the most inspiration players at the club have come from other clubs eg Broderick from Fitzroy and Tuck from Hawthorn. It appears to me in the current side apart from Jack Dustin, Jackson(only since the last season) Lids and Cotch the more senior players who have started their careers at the Tigers have not developed into influential players eg Shane Edwards. This year we are without Tuck. Tuck although he may not have been the most skilled player led from the front and had an outstanding work ethic. His battle to get into the senior side over the last years of him playing at the club showed what a true professional footballer should be. The young players need to be modelled on that sort of attitude. It appears to me that Hardwick is only reacting when under pressure from the media eg dropping Vickery. Hardwick to change the culture needs to be proactive and ruthless. No player should be safe from being dropped and he should reward only those who show they are prepared to put their body on the line when things are not going right.
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come seasons end when the dust settles on a poor yr and the club goes to the nd and brings in 4 or 5 new kids there will be those singing there praises. the same ones every yr expecting things to get better with the exact same people in charge of things. we could sack hardwick because of poor performance but we can sure as hell keep our recruiting manager and list manager and even praise em up.
what is that old saying it goes like this
its the epitomy of madness to do the same things over and over expecting different results.
unless we identify the real problem first and change things we have no chance of improving and changing things.
imo supporters target every yr the wrong people. sack hardwick sack the president but what we should be demanding every 4 or 5 yrs is a Totally INDEPENDENT REVIEW of the WHOLE FOOTY DEPT. WITH RECRUITING AND LIST MANAGEMENT THE PRIMARY TARGETS.
If we did this last yr im certain jackson hartley and others would be at least on notice if not gone.
it has been patently clear that we have never ever had a list that is genuinely top 8 some of us did say that ;last yr. we are a middling team always have been and we are in the mix with a whole pile of clubs who will go straight past us if we cant at least acknowledge where the list is really at.
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come seasons end when the dust settles on a poor yr and the club goes to the nd and brings in 4 or 5 new kids there will be those singing there praises. the same ones every yr expecting things to get better with the exact same people in charge of things. we could sack hardwick because of poor performance but we can sure as hell keep our recruiting manager and list manager and even praise em up.
what is that old saying it goes like this
its the epitomy of madness to do the same things over and over expecting different results.
unless we identify the real problem first and change things we have no chance of improving and changing things.
imo supporters target every yr the wrong people. sack hardwick sack the president but what we should be demanding every 4 or 5 yrs is a Totally INDEPENDENT REVIEW of the WHOLE FOOTY DEPT. WITH RECRUITING AND LIST MANAGEMENT THE PRIMARY TARGETS.
If we did this last yr im certain jackson hartley and others would be at least on notice if not gone.
it has been patently clear that we have never ever had a list that is genuinely top 8 some of us did say that ;last yr. we are a middling team always have been and we are in the mix with a whole pile of clubs who will go straight past us if we cant at least acknowledge where the list is really at.
I agree with you Claw.
With a regular independent review then every one is always on notice. I like it. It should be done every year like preventative maintenance schedules.
I know I go on about it but Culture is the most important thing to a club IMHO.
If the bar is consistently raised and everyone is striving for excellence then improvement will be achieved in every department.
The bar is too low at Punt road. Mediocrity is allowed and it's the disease that blinds reality & kills success.
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come seasons end when the dust settles on a poor yr and the club goes to the nd and brings in 4 or 5 new kids there will be those singing there praises. the same ones every yr expecting things to get better with the exact same people in charge of things. we could sack hardwick because of poor performance but we can sure as hell keep our recruiting manager and list manager and even praise em up.
what is that old saying it goes like this
its the epitomy of madness to do the same things over and over expecting different results.
unless we identify the real problem first and change things we have no chance of improving and changing things.
imo supporters target every yr the wrong people. sack hardwick sack the president but what we should be demanding every 4 or 5 yrs is a Totally INDEPENDENT REVIEW of the WHOLE FOOTY DEPT. WITH RECRUITING AND LIST MANAGEMENT THE PRIMARY TARGETS.
If we did this last yr im certain jackson hartley and others would be at least on notice if not gone.
it has been patently clear that we have never ever had a list that is genuinely top 8 some of us did say that ;last yr. we are a middling team always have been and we are in the mix with a whole pile of clubs who will go straight past us if we cant at least acknowledge where the list is really at.
I keep forgetting what his name is but I've been hoping that Geelong dude takes over recruiting at some point. There's no point sacking them if you can't get one of the best. Whilst he may not be recognised as one of the best, he has learnt from the very best. :clapping
Problem is I'm not sure even the best players in the draft won't rot away in our VFL team.
a) every other player does
b) Hardwick has no faith in picking them so what makes anyone think he'd pick a new batch of kids to play?
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I keep forgetting what his name is but I've been hoping that Geelong dude takes over recruiting at some point. There's no point sacking them if you can't get one of the best. Whilst he may not be recognised as one of the best, he has learnt from the very best. :clapping
Stephen Wells is his name :thumbsup
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I keep forgetting what his name is but I've been hoping that Geelong dude takes over recruiting at some point. There's no point sacking them if you can't get one of the best. Whilst he may not be recognised as one of the best, he has learnt from the very best. :clapping
Stephen Wells is his name :thumbsup
I think he meant Luke Williams who learnt from Stephen Wells. :thumbsup