One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: Razorblade on August 22, 2005, 01:54:07 AM
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He has looked pretty fatigued for the last few weeks and today he was killed at times in the centre by Joel Smith, he just ran away from him w/out much pressure from Johnson at all.
He needs a good and long vacation to recharge the batteries! :thumbsup
(I'll stop post whoring now i promise! ;))
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Sugar was excellent last week but yeah I didn't notice him until his kicked a goal in the last quarter. Both he and Cogs were very quiet by their standards. There's too much workload left to Tuck, Cogs and Johnson in the midfield which is something the latter two don't need (Tuck is a stuff for his first full AFL season).
Browny's absence has hurt us with our midfield rotations as much as it has up forward. Fortunately others (and they were mostly our younger guys too) stepped up today in both areas and we were the ones who ran out the game.
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Sugar was excellent last week
u think so!
i think he was quite pathetic, and this week had an ok last quarter but he was no where. cogs should be traded, he just does not have it any more, his kicks float dont penetrate and he is slow.
i agree , sugar should go on holiday and think hard about giving up his captaincy, this yr has proved one thing,
he is not captaincy material!
joel bowden should have been our captain, and if shane tuck in 2006 has a yr like this yr give him the top job! he has all the attributes of a leader, no nonsense hard at it player and gives it all every week! tuck has an impact! he was bog again 4 us and showed cogs and sugar hows it done! our midfield got smashed when foley was taken out of the mix, shows alot about cogs and sugars character, and i wont take injuries as an excuse!
i heard wirrapunda wants to come back to vic, trade cogs for him and draft pick. that would enable us to hard a hard running defender to set up plays and allow hartigan and or newman to join the midfeild and remember rodan will be back!
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To all you Johnson knockers sit back and watch that last quarter again.
You have obviously been watching a different game as Johnson's effort and even his 1%ers when it mattered most in that last quarter helped our mob get over the line.
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X, if you post just to get a reaction from people then don’t let me stop you, but when you start questioning people’s characters you’re going a bit too far, don’t you think? Seriously, get a grip. You’re not doing yourself any favours.
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I know I could do with a holiday :rollin
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I know I could do with a holiday :rollin
Come up and see me at beautiful Coffs Harbour
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I think you'd find all players need a break - they'd all be carrying some injury or another at this time of the year.
Add Cogs to that list i reckon. Never seen a more downcast boy at the after match - not that he smiles much anyway. But i think he needs a break. Thought Johnno was quiet yesterday as he has been the last month or so. But agree with MT, the week before he looked a little bit more back to form.
Would it be nasty of me to say that i have a week off this week? ;D
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Would it be nasty of me to say that i have a week off this week?
I have heard that you dont do much at the best of times anyway :P
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I have heard that you dont do much at the best of times anyway
Well, i never :(
Well, i have actually lol :rollin
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To all you Johnson knockers sit back and watch that last quarter again.
You have obviously been watching a different game as Johnson's effort and even his 1%ers when it mattered most in that last quarter helped our mob get over the line.
Okay, I've watched the last quarter and compared it to the the first three quarters and the last 21 rounds of the season. I'm not quite as right wing as X, but I do believe that Sugar has had a very ordinary year. He's looked slow and ineffective for most of the season. Captains should not be performing cameo roles, they should be leading by example in as many games as possible and this is where I believe Kane has failed this season. Now before someone starts throwing up his posession stats take a look at his effective disposals first. If anyone has access to this sort of info I would love to see it. And I will stand corrected if they are in his favour but from every game I have watched him play this season he has been quite poor, both hand and foot, looked slow and his positional play has not been up to standard either. Maybe he's been playing injured, I don't know. All I can say is take a look at his crows premiership form and compare it to his time at tigerland and you may see a bit of a difference.
The big key is this....Have we missed him when he hasn't been on the field? The answer to this has to be no considering we won 3 of the four games he wasn't playing in and the one we lost was to a red hot saints outfit at the time. Have we missed Browny? Do we miss Richo or AK? The answer would invariably be yes.
No further questions your honor, the prosecution rests. (with an option for rebuttal) ;D
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fact 1 we play better when sugar isnt playing
fact 2, one average quarter isnt enough in a game from a a captain
fact 3, he has poor skills
fact 4, he has poor judgement most the time
fact 5, he is not a true captain
fact 6, we should never had got him
fact 7, he should stand down as captain , refer to facts 1-6
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fact 1 we play better when sugar isnt playing
fact 2, one average quarter isnt enough in a game from a a captain
fact 5, he is not a true captain
We've won more games this year than the previous 3 years. Sugar's playing record in the first 9 rounds (when we had our best 22 on the park) was 5-1. So it's Sugar's and not Spud's nor Gieschen's fault that our list lacks depth.
fact 3, he has poor skills
fact 4, he has poor judgement most the time
Like tiga I wish I had Johnson's efficency stats. I'm not disputing his form in the second half of the year hasn't been up with that of previous years but it's hard to claim things as fact without the facts at hand.
Injury is an excuse if it inhibits you greatly. Just look at what happened to Richo's running ability midway through the year when his knee had to be drained before every game.
fact 6, we should never had got him
We could have got him for Holland. Don't blame Sugar for the club paying out $$$ on our defence :-\. Anyway that's ancient history and something we can't change now.
fact 7, he should stand down as captain , refer to facts 1-6
And replaced by whom? This year you've said Bowden then switched to Richo and now it's Tuck. Who's it going to be next week?! lol
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We've won more games this year than the previous 3 years. Sugar's playing record in the first 9 rounds (when we had our best 22 on the park) was 5-1. So it's Sugar's and not Spud's nor Gieschen's fault that our list lacks depth.
did u read what i said, i said we play better when he is not there, when we were 5 - 1, yes he was playing and he had no impact, we would have been 5-1 without him too!
now we must stop traeting this guy like some hero, i was at the game on sunday and i loved the fact hawk supporters see str8 through their captian and acknowledge he is shit1 but tiger faithful believe sugar is what he aint!
wayne campbell is a tiger legend and one of teh best captians and players we have ever had, but he constantly was reminded by many ppl and tigers he was a poo captain but he was fantastic!
i honestly believe sugar does not have what it takes to lead this club, and i believe we need a person in the mold of a tuck to lead us, he has an impact every game. give shane one more yr, if he kicks arse next yr, give him the captaincy in 2007
dont laugh mt, maybe ur sleeping with sugar, but joel richo wayne have all been better on and off field leaders than sugar this yr and shane tuck , it may sound funny to you, but his presence has influenced many games this yr, and sugar has done jack poo, so u remind him that when you kiss him goodnight tonight
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dont laugh mt, maybe ur sleeping with sugar, but joel richo wayne have all been better on and off field leaders than sugar this yr
Joel? That joke of a footballer.....in 9 years have you seen anything that remotely looks like a footballer, let alone a leader?
Ill agree with you on one thing, he is not what we need as a Captain, BUT dont give me crap and say we shouldnt have got him. Unfortunately he is best used as a back-flanker, winger, but the fact remains our club is so stuffed on midfielders that we need to use him in the middle. Your only chopping him down because he is at the head of the tree. Why dont you start pulling on the branches around that make the tree look so poo in the first place?
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We've won more games this year than the previous 3 years. Sugar's playing record in the first 9 rounds (when we had our best 22 on the park) was 5-1. So it's Sugar's and not Spud's nor Gieschen's fault that our list lacks depth.
and sugar has done jack pooh, so u remind him that when you kiss him goodnight tonight
X when you die you will surely go to heaven and become an angel for you sure do 'HARP'
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To all you Johnson knockers sit back and watch that last quarter again.
You have obviously been watching a different game as Johnson's effort and even his 1%ers when it mattered most in that last quarter helped our mob get over the line.
Watched the replat last night and I have to say that Johnson's efforts in the last were sensational. Great in close, either keeping the ball in or deft little knock ons. His tackling was great.
Interestingly they were talking about Johnson's leadership on "on the Couch" last night and Gerard Healy commented about Kane's last quarter and said that it was his leadership in the last that helped get us over the line - he also said Johnson was the right choice for skipper. Walls agreed and gave his reasons and Mike just said "yeah I agree Gerard" ;D
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well done sugar, ur the greatest, u played one half decent quarter in a game, hmmmm 1 quarter in the past 6 weeks, yes u r a champion!!!
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X you are an idiot plain and simple, Johnson is NOT 100% fit, and i don't believe his anywhere near it, i sitll believe he is carrying an injury, maybe his ankle is still playing up.
When on song he is an excellent player.
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X you are an idiot plain and simple, Johnson is NOT 100% fit, and i don't believe his anywhere near it, i sitll believe he is carrying an injury, maybe his ankle is still playing up.
When on song he is an excellent player.
kiss me einstein, he is fit, if he wasnt he would not be playing, plain and simple! stop making excuses for him
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X you are an idiot plain and simple, Johnson is NOT 100% fit, and i don't believe his anywhere near it, i sitll believe he is carrying an injury, maybe his ankle is still playing up.
When on song he is an excellent player.
so just because my opinion is different to urs that makes me an idiot. hmmmmm does that mean that makes you a fag! maybe idiots think like me, and fairy pink boys like u!
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I can tell your an idiot, or even a mentally challenged person, simply by reading a handful of your posts.
Your not an idiot because your opinion differs from mine, your an idiot because of how you justify your idiotic ramblings.
How can i block this retards posts here WP?
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I can tell your an idiot, or even a mentally challenged person, simply by reading a handful of your posts.
Your not an idiot because your opinion differs from mine, your an idiot because of how you justify your idiotic ramblings.
How can i block this retards posts here WP?
so just because my opinion is different to urs that makes me an idiot. hmmmmm does that mean that makes you a limp! maybe idiots think like me, and fairy pink boys like u!
:banghead :banghead
1/ Enough with the personal insults - they are unexceptable. I think we've been down this road before :banghead. Keep it off the main board. We're all entitled to have different opinions .............
2/ I haven't commented on this in the past (bitten my tongue actually) but enough with the references to "retards". It can be viewed as offensive. Is it offensive to me? - you betcha >:( and I cannot and will not apologise for that
Please don't forget that this site has promoted the FIDA footy association (refer to OTP pages) which is a footy competition which fields teams of players with intellectual disabilities.
Footnote: Sorry folks I got a bit fired yesterday - terrible day. - WP
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Simple, got a problem with what i post, ban me, otherwise don't waste your breath.
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Hey Razor,
This is a forum where people share their thoughts on footy. After a while you can be agreeable with some people on all issues, some you disagree with on some issues, but I think that even when people disagree with others vehemently there is still some level of respect for their opinion- even if it is only just reading it, you have at least encountered their opinion I suppose.
Anyway, it's not about whether you get 'banned' or not, it's about whether anyone has any respect or any regard for what you say in here. If not, you might as well write your thoughts in a little black book! Personally, I don't take any offence at the terms that you use, but I can understand how other people would find them extremely hurtful.
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Well, i'm having a go at no-one in particular - but i do think that if anyone thinks Sugar can't play football has either got to be deluded, not sleeping with him, or just an idiot. He was one of our better players last season (that's why he got the captaincy) and earlier on this season, a premiership player for Adelaide. I don't think you lose your ability to play - i do think there might be other variables (probably injured) as to why your form is put under the microscope. I only question why he is playing if he is injured. But it is mindboggling to me how Richmond supporters (and i question their support) can bag our players so unmercifully without having regard to anything else. Footy just isn't black or white.
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Anyway gettting this thread back on topic after petty personal insults ::).
did u read what i said, i said we play better when he is not there, when we were 5 - 1, yes he was playing and he had no impact, we would have been 5-1 without him too!
Define how the side "plays better" X? Do all the other blokes who don't have a footy brain when Johnson's there suddenly find one? Do they start playing running team-orientated attacking footy for the whole 4 quarters? Do they stop being so Richo conscious? Do they suddenly stop missing 11 straightforward set shots at goal per game? Do they suddenly learn how to tackle properly instead of doing silly swan dives and doing a good impression of thin air as an opponent tries to run around or through them? ..... With all due respect X come off it!
now we must stop traeting this guy like some hero, i was at the game on sunday and i loved the fact hawk supporters see str8 through their captian and acknowledge he is pooh1 but tiger faithful believe sugar is what he aint!
Who's treating him like a hero? I've always said he's a B-grade footballer as the only A-grader we have is Browny. I'm just defending him against IMHO ridiculous comments that put him at the same level as Richard Lounder and blame all our list deficiencies on him!
wayne campbell is a tiger legend and one of teh best captians and players we have ever had, but he constantly was reminded by many ppl and tigers he was a pooh captain but he was fantastic!
Yes by why they did they hang crap on him? Because we sucked in the midfield and had no depth and he copped all the blame for that because he had the letter (c) after his name in the Record (see the similarities!). It was only when ironically a fully-fit Johnson and Cogs joined him in the centre for the first 8 rounds of 2003 that Cambo prior to his calf/achillies injuries could prove his critics wrong with decent support around him and Tiger fans realised he wasn't useless. In the AFL today you need at least 10 "bona-fide" midfielders in your rotation to not only win games but to survive the war of attrition that is a 22 round AFL season. We're lucky if we have 5-6. We have no depth.
i honestly believe sugar does not have what it takes to lead this club, and i believe we need a person in the mold of a tuck to lead us, he has an impact every game. give shane one more yr, if he kicks behind next yr, give him the captaincy in 2007
Wasn't that the whole plan anyway. Hardly new news! It was hard to find an obvious leader and leadership group from our senior players after 2004 so Wallace over the preseason went through a process to determine out of the 4 who would be the best leader. Johnson was selected the best from what we currently have available with the view to eventually hand the captaincy over to the next generation after they find their feet at AFL level. Once again blaming Johnson for an average list. It says it all that 2 of the blokes up for selection had just walked in the door yet were deemed them more capable of leading the side better than most of the existing crop.
dont laugh mt, maybe ur sleeping with sugar, but joel richo wayne have all been better on and off field leaders than sugar this yr and shane tuck , it may sound funny to you, but his presence has influenced many games this yr, and sugar has done jack pooh, so u remind him that when you kiss him goodnight tonight
LOL! Geez X is that the best insult you can do?! ::) I'd be offended if it wasn't so ridiculously funny :-* :rollin. It's amazing how you put every fault of Johnson's under the heaviest scrutiny yet most of the others you recommend in his place are immuned.
IMO it wouldn't matter who had the little (c) after their name some Tiger "supporters" would find reasons to bag them. The RFC captaincy is almost a poison chalice these days :-\.
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dont laugh mt, maybe ur sleeping with sugar, but joel richo wayne have all been better on and off field leaders than sugar this yr and shane tuck , it may sound funny to you, but his presence has influenced many games this yr, and sugar has done jack pooh, so u remind him that when you kiss him goodnight tonight
LOL! Geez X is that the best insult you can do?! ::) I'd be offended if it wasn't so ridiculously funny :-* :rollin. It's amazing how you put every fault of Johnson's under the heaviest scrutiny yet most of the others you recommend in his place are immuned.
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mt , i wasnt trying to insult you, its just my soh, u know i respect ur comments on this site, and we have a difference of opinion on sugar. thats ok with me, you have stated your pros, i have stated my cons. now this does not make u nor i an idiot. i thought this is what these forums were about , ppl expressing their opinions.
if its ok for ppl to insult me cos i think one way then its ok for me to insult back , has to be a level playing feild.
and yes i do put heavy scrutiny because and i know why adelaide wanted him out i know he is not a captain nor leader.
i am just analysing him closely because he is our captain and should play like one! wayne was a top captain and never got the credit he deserved
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No probs having a difference of opinion and debating an issue/topic X.
And to add to Sugar's defence lol, I finally found where there were some "Error" stats on the Pro-Stats site for discussion (excuse the formatting):
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Player | Games | Avg Disp. | Errors | Err/Disp (%)
Kellaway 15 15.3 1.0 6.5
Raines 6 9.5 0.8 8.4
Hartigan 7 12.3 1.1 8.9
Newman 21 15.6 1.4 9.0
Thursfield 6 8.8 0.8 9.1
Johnson 17 22.8 2.2 9.6
Deledio 21 15.1 1.5 9.9
Coughlan 21 22.0 2.4 10.9
Cambo 21 18.6 2.1 11.3
Bowden 21 22.9 2.7 11.8
Tuck 21 24.1 2.9 12.0
Foley 5 12.0 1.6 13.3
Hyde 16 16.0 2.2 13.8
Brown 10 20.5 3.0 14.6
Graham 20 11.2 1.7 15.2
Tivs 19 16.5 2.6 15.8
Chaffey 17 13.8 2.2 15.9
Hall 16 11.9 1.9 15.9
Gaspar 19 11.5 1.9 16.5
Hilton 9 10.8 1.8 16.7
Meyer 6 6.5 1.2 18.5
Pettifer 21 13.4 2.5 18.7
Jackson 10 7.3 1.4 19.2
Krakouer 19 11.2 2.5 22.3
Simmo 21 13.3 3.3 24.8
Stafford 14 7.1 2.1 29.6
Knobel 18 8.3 2.8 33.7
Moore 5 7.0 2.4 34.3
Richo 21 13.9 5.0 35.9
Tambling 11 8.8 3.2 36.4
http://www.pro-stats.com.au/psw/web/team_player_rankings?yr=2005&rt=TA&fc=E10&tid=112
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I presume behinds are counted as errors so that's why Richo, Browny and Simmonds' error figures are inflated. You would need to subtract scoring disposals from these stats to get an exact picture of field disposals (eg: Richo averages 2.0 behinds per match so his error rate drops from 5.0 to 3.0 while Browny's errors with 1.7 behinds per match drops down from 3.0 to 1.3).
But for the sake of the argument according to these stats Johnson's disposal hasn't been as poor as some ;) claim.
As an aside I was surprised even though he's had a good year to see Chubba's name at the top. I doubt with Duncan you'd see the name Kellaway as our cleanest disposer of the footy ;D.
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As an aside I was surprised even though he's had a good year to see Chubba's name at the top. I doubt with Duncan you'd see the name Kellaway as our cleanest disposer of the footy ;D.
:rollin
Duncan's error/disp % = 101.00
How good is it to see quite a few youngters near the top too: Raines, Hartigan, Thursfield, Deledio
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the trouble is , missed targets dont always get counted as errors or clangers, those stats can be misleading
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Suprises me that Jackson's is so high considering he doesnt touch the ball that much ;D
Perhaps too many people rate this kid, but he may actually be just an average footy player.
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Player | Games | Avg Disp. | Errors | Err/Disp (%)
Kellaway 15 15.3 1.0 6.5
Raines 6 9.5 0.8 8.4
Hartigan 7 12.3 1.1 8.9
Newman 21 15.6 1.4 9.0
Thursfield 6 8.8 0.8 9.1
Johnson 17 22.8 2.2 9.6
Deledio 21 15.1 1.5 9.9
http://www.pro-stats.com.au/psw/web/team_player_rankings?yr=2005&rt=TA&fc=E10&tid=112
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I think you also have to take into consideration the amount of games and the amount of game time players are getting when looking at some of the figures.
The ones I found most:
1/ Pleasing is Deledio 21 games, plenty of game time, reasonably high posession count per game and very few erros per game - that is a major positive
2/ Surprising is Chris Newman in that his errors per game is so low. That's mainly because he's been cut up a few times this season against opposition smalls - had a few goals kicked against him - that abviously doesn't get included in ther errors but it stays in the memory ;)
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Duncan's error/disp % = 101.00
:rollin @ Duncan's being greater than 100%. He was so talented he could make 2 errors out of just one disposal ;D.
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the trouble is , missed targets dont always get counted as errors or clangers, those stats can be misleading
That's true X. There'd be some grey here but in terms of blantant obvious clangers, Johnson isn't a significant offender.
I think you also have to take into consideration the amount of games and the amount of game time players are getting when looking at some of the figures.
That's true as well WP. Just one clanger for players averaging less than 10 possessions moves their error percentage around alot more than a midfielder with over 20 disposals. I was going to only include our main midfielders but after seeing Thursty's low error stat I decided to chuck in the whole list. Everyone there has played at least 5 games to minimise one-offs so Pattison wasn't included for instance.
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C'mon guys don't let facts get in the way of an x-cited rant! :shh :thumbsup
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C'mon guys don't let facts get in the way of an x-cited rant! :shh :thumbsup
:rollin