One-Eyed Richmond Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: mightytiges on October 14, 2007, 06:20:53 PM
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Well it's been finally called. 6 weeks of being bombarded by political ads after all the ads we've already been bombarded with :P.
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Labor hasn't got a chance going on my deduction here.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/race-is-on-as-virgin-voters-go-for-rudd/2007/10/13/1191696241329.html?s_cid=rss_national
Virgin voters go for Rudd. Methinks not many of them ;D
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I've tipped John Howard to lose every election that he has contested, esp Latham, thought he was gone.
So I won't be saying much this time, all I'll say is if Howard gets back in, I've got one question, can you get AFL coverage in New Zealand?
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Rudd sounds to much like Judd to me. :rollin
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LOL CUB.
How much does it cost to become PM? $34 billion :whistle
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A mate of mine works with a lot of old people, he takes them on bus trip and things like that all volentary work. Well he was talking to them and most of them have said that they have been here with both side of government and they all will be voting Liberals. As Labour seem to create a mess and Liberals when they get back in have to fix it up again. This is from them not me, I just thought it waas interesting. Don't know if I will be just yet on my side though.
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A mate of mine works with a lot of old people, he takes them on bus trip and things like that all volentary work. Well he was talking to them and most of them have said that they have been here with both side of government and they all will be voting Liberals. As Labour seem to create a mess and Liberals when they get back in have to fix it up again. This is from them not me, I just thought it waas interesting. Don't know if I will be just yet on my side though.
Never understood this argument as both sides have created messes in my time. The Federal Libs in the early 80's (when Howard was treasurer) and State Labor in the early 90's.
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I think the worm won for distracting the viewer from the pollies lol.
Not sure why they call it debate when all it was was Howard and Rudd just giving their 2 minute spiels on each issue which we've already heard :sleep. What happened to the old verbal argy bargy ???.
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Saw a BMW with a 'Kevin 07' sticker on it this morning....honestly what has the Australian Labor Party come to ???
Gough Whitlam would be turning in his grave.....if he was dead.
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Saw a BMW with a 'Kevin 07' sticker on it this morning....honestly what has the Australian Labor Party come to ???
Gough Whitlam would be turning in his grave.....if he was dead.
I think Gough is immortal
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Ivan Milat's sister-in-law running for SenateBy Simon Benson
October 23, 2007 12:00pm
SERIAL killer Ivan Milat's sister-in-law is running on a Senate ticket of relaxing gun laws and claims the psychopath's horrendous crimes were water under the bridge.
Ms Milat who married the jailed serial killer's brother Walter, is one of 35 candidates running for the Liberty and Democracy Party - a party which supports nuclear power, lower taxes and euthanasia, and opposes criminalising victimless crime - in the federal election.
Ms Milat, who lists target shooting as one of her hobbies, told Sydney's The Daily Telegraph newspaper that her brother-in-law's crimes were in the past and she was not concerned that her family associations may harm her chances at a seat in Parliament.
"Its not a problem at all," Ms Milat said. "It's in the past, it's water under the bridge.
"I am saying that it is irrelevant to my candidacy. It doesn't have any connection to it."
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22632595-2,00.html?from=mostpop
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She might be battling uphill to get elected :o
Saw a BMW with a 'Kevin 07' sticker on it this morning....honestly what has the Australian Labor Party come to ???
Gough Whitlam would be turning in his grave.....if he was dead.
I think Gough is immortal
lol pretty much. He's 91 now.
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.....the psychopath's horrendous crimes were water under the bridge.
Mmmmmkayyy. :help
.....opposes criminalising victimless crime......
I'd be interested to hear what these nuff nuffs consider a victimless crime.
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.....the psychopath's horrendous crimes were water under the bridge.
Mmmmmkayyy. :help
.....opposes criminalising victimless crime......
I'd be interested to hear what these nuff nuffs consider a victimless crime.
I'd take it'd be more than just parking fines :whistle
ps. nice quote headings FF :lol
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vote labour
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Who says kissing babies is fun ;D
(http://www.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,,5740334,00.jpg)
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Wonder what the best poll is - they go up and down as the wind blows.
But interesting on
* Betfair, Labor is $1.35 and Coalition $3.50.
* Centrebet Labor $1.36 and Coalition $3.15
I reckon this is a better gauge of public opinion - ppl voting with their hard earned.
Although I guess the polls could have swayed ppl to bet this way thinking they were a shoe in.
In the words of Vinnie Barbarino, "I'm so confused" lol
I think it's closer than the polls suggest and as a diehard Labor person don't feel confident at all :help
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The odds and polls seem far too in favour of Labor for what they need to do to win government. The ALP needs to win a record 16 seats so it's just not as simple as Labor getting the majority of the vote. If the swing is just in seats the opposition already hold then nothing changes. IIRC Peacock (1990) and Beazley (1998) both got the majority of the vote but still lost. Like you Moi I still think the election could go either way :-\.
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Alot of people have made alot of money in this country over the past 10 years, there not going to vote Labor, Howards has heaps of seats up his sleeve. I expect he'll win. The one thing that concerns me is the Telstra Vote, Telstra shareholders feel screwed by the Libs, theres 1.6 million of them- that could change everything.
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The majority of Australians wouldn't own a share portfolio though ;). Things like the cost of living, cost of housing both to buy and rent, cost of childcare, etc... all going through the roof would way heavily on the minds of the mortgage belt which often make up marginal seats. Eventually the proverbial has got to hit the fan when even dumps are expensive to buy.
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Surprise surprise the Herald-Sun is backing the Libs. Who would've thought that :wallywink. I wonder who the Age is backing :wallywink.
ps. Thank gawd for the black ban on political advertising :sleep 2 days out from the polls. I can start watching tv again without :chuck.
pps. LOL at noone turning up to the booths until the afternoon because of the draft :yep.
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Here's the election pendulum
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/files/2007-election-pendulum.pdf
Libs/Nats win if they lose no more than 13 seats.
Labor wins if they win 16 or more seats.
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Watching seat of Eden-Monaro, which has always gone with whoever wins government.
Labor in front at this stage!
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Poor Johnny looks like losing his seat. A 6% swing against.
Ch 9 claiming 10 seats have changed hands so far. Libs getting smashed in NSW :o.
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Poor Johnny looks like losing his seat. A 6% swing against.
Won't be sorry to see the end of the racist pig :thumbsup
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Poor Johnny looks like losing his seat. A 6% swing against.
Won't be sorry to see the end of the racist pig :thumbsup
Well you won't have to wait too long now Moi, he will lose his seat and his last day in federal politics is almost over. Qld looks like there is a big swing to Labour. Libs are gawn.
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Poor Johnny looks like losing his seat. A 6% swing against.
Won't be sorry to see the end of the racist pig :thumbsup
Well you won't have to wait too long now Moi, he will lose his seat and his last day in federal politics is almost over. Qld looks like there is a big swing to Labour. Libs are gawn.
Having said that though, I think he is the smartest politician I've ever seen. He knew how to get to the heart of the populace. Unfortunately, he used a lot of racist tactics in order to do it.
And economic management, you can't criticise.
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Alot of people have made alot of money in this country over the past 10 years, there not going to vote Labor, Howards has heaps of seats up his sleeve. I expect he'll win. The one thing that concerns me is the Telstra Vote, Telstra shareholders feel screwed by the Libs, theres 1.6 million of them- that could change everything.
howard can kiss my arse. i have a lot of friends who tell me my house has doubled in 3 years bla bla bla.
well so has mine and every other bloke who owns out there but seriously guy richards could be running this country and that would've happened.
one word. CHINA.
no china no money. people dont understand that.
goodbye howard
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Will mean nothing in an hour or so when he will have to concede defeat.
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he is a smart prick no doubt about that. the area which labour is not.
for example interest rates. people go on about rates being high under labour buy labour never once mentioned in any ads that they actually hit a high of 22% under liberal.
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Every channel seems to be claiming a Labor victory.
The Libs only have themselves to blame to be in opposition right around the country. They pushed themselves so far to the ultra-right under Howard and loonies like Tony Abbott and Kevin Andrews they left the centre for Labor to grab. Up to Malcolm Turnbull and Peter Costello to fight over the leadership of the new opposition.
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They won't have a big majority though MT maybe 8-10 seats max so as long as the Libs don't self destruct with the Wiltshire Staysharps in the party room over who is going to lead in opposition they will still have a chance to reclaim power if Labour have a scratchy and poor term in office.
Labour 79
Libs 69
Independants 2
Anyway that will be thereabouts to the final result.
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Up to Malcolm Turnbull and Peter Costello to fight over the leadership of the new opposition.
Gonna be an interesting time.
Malcolm is from a "born to rule" background, very good credentials in business, law etc.
He won't be a pushover that's for sure.
I don't think Peter will ever be PM ;D
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The Libs only have themselves to blame to be in opposition right around the country. They pushed themselves so far to the ultra-right under Howard and loonies like Tony Abbott and Kevin Andrews they left the centre for Labor to grab.
It didn't help when we saw the last election coverage after they had won, and Kroger with his cheshire cat grin saying they could introduce their IR agenda, something they never campaigned on.
I don't know how bad those laws are or whether it was a very successful ad campaign by Labor, but I think it's had a huge impact.
Dumbfounded as to how such a massive swing has happened all the same.
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And I don't think the Exclusive Brethren helped the PM either ;D :thumbsup
Go Maxine!!
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Up to Malcolm Turnbull and Peter Costello to fight over the leadership of the new opposition.
Gonna be an interesting time.
Malcolm is from a "born to rule" background, very good credentials in business, law etc.
He won't be a pushover that's for sure.
I don't think Peter will ever be PM ;D
Agree Moi and with Howard losing his seat the promised "handover" will be null and void.
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Howard has phoned Rudd to concede defeat so it's over.
They won't have a big majority though MT maybe 8-10 seats max so as long as the Libs don't self destruct with the Wiltshire Staysharps in the party room over who is going to lead in opposition they will still have a chance to reclaim power if Labour have a scratchy and poor term in office.
True if Labor stuffs up they'll only be a one-term government especially with no Lib state governments to pass the buck onto. Labor also won't have a majority in the Senate. Likewise the Libs can't live in denial and think the public has just made a mistake like they did after Jeff lost in Victoria and expect Labor to stuff up and then they waltz back into government in 3 years time.
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watching the libs self destruct tonight was like watching the tigers beat essendon in the 95 final.
like then scotty turner delivered the crucial blow it was rudd tonight who nailed that prick down.
seeing joe hockey cry was the highlight of the night. him and his work choices can go get f.......
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Herald-Sun saying
ALP 83
Lib/Nat 58
Ind. 2
Undecided 7
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It was an entertaining nightin front of the box.
Laurie Oakes didn't seem happy. ;D
Joe Hockey looked like he was going to cry. Staggering he actually couldn't believe they had lost ;D
Jeff Kennett giving Joe Hockey advice on losing :rollin
Julia Gillard looking like a puppet ;D
Barnaby Joyce looking and sounding like the idiot he is - how did he every get elected :o He couldn't beleive they lost either
And Bob Hawke looking ...well... er half dead.
Funny night on the box ;D
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Got a bad feelin in me bones about this dude - Let's wait and see.
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Got a bad feelin in me bones about this dude - Let's wait and see.
Agree we will have to wait and see - which is true no matter who wins
But it was just funny watching the coverage and some of these people sitting there in total disbelief of the result.
It's interesting while I was overseas the election was called - wonderful to miss the first 4 weeks of the advertsing :P.
We were on tour with 51 other people. There were a couple of people from Singapore. They asked if I thought there would be change in govt and I said absolutely. The bloke Fred said "why John Howard is so popular." I mentioned to him that Mr Howards was not popular in Australia these days and Fred asked if I was sure because in Singapore he is considered popular and it was there belief that there was no way he would lose. I suppose it depends on how things are reported.
Noticed also the reuslt was a breaking news story on CNN around midnight
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Peter Costello has said he is leaving politics so I'd guess the way is open for Malcolm Turnbull to become opposition leader unless Alexander Downer stays around and tries again.
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It was an entertaining nightin front of the box.
Laurie Oakes didn't seem happy. ;D
Joe Hockey looked like he was going to cry. Staggering he actually couldn't believe they had lost ;D
Jeff Kennett giving Joe Hockey advice on losing :rollin
Julia Gillard looking like a puppet ;D
Barnaby Joyce looking and sounding like the idiot he is - how did he every get elected :o He couldn't beleive they lost either
And Bob Hawke looking ...well... er half dead.
Funny night on the box ;D
:lol
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Peter Costello has said he is leaving politics so I'd guess the way is open for Malcolm Turnbull to become opposition leader unless Alexander Downer stays around and tries again.
suck poo
turnbull another wanker who is howards love child.
basically it goes like this. if u got coin u can work for the libs.
if u gotta lot of coin then u can shoot right up the ladder.
good riddons to the lot of em
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Turnbull wasn't Howard's lovechild during the republican debate :nope.
Not a fan of the Liberal Party daniel ;) :lol
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i aint talking about the republican debate i was talking through this election. for that matter costello wasnt howard's allay in that debate also
how the hell did he even get into politics. ill tell u how. his wallet.
liberals na i cant stand them.
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Out of the two major parties, the one in better financial shape is surprisingly Labor. The Union movement gives the ALP superior resources and manpower to fund and fight election campaigns. The Libs are finding it hard to generate party donations and attract good candidates these days and being in opposition now right around the country will make that task even harder.
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Turnbull as opposition leader would be a decent result for Australia IMO.
Instantly we would have a return to more socially progressive ways.
I still don't know what Rudd stands for. No one stands for anything these days other than grabbing votes. Aspirations run pretty low in this country. How about dreaming of a better world, rather than low interest rates. Kevin Rudd is the most conservative Labor leader I can remember, state or federal.
I voted Greens and Democrat. At least they have principles.
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howard and his values are pathetioc. the way he paraded around telling everyone about the economy and how good it is under him.
its not him that put us in this position, its china. howard is a apuppett and rudd. i like him as a person.
will he be any different than howard? probably not
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With the comings and goings (more goings ;D) of the conservative parties (Libs & Nats) I actually see them being in the wilderness for a number of years now.
The federal situation reminds me of what happened in Victoria when Kennett was turfed out and from that the Vic Libs have not recovered (Bobbie Doyle anyone) IMO
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With the comings and goings (more goings ;D) of the conservative parties (Libs & Nats) I actually see them being in the wilderness for a number of years now.
The federal situation reminds me of what happened in Victoria when Kennett was turfed out and from that the Vic Libs have not recovered (Bobbie Doyle anyone) IMO
They must be really scratching their heads what they did wrong though.
Record low unemployment, surpluses, booming economy.
I'm a Labor voter through and through - campaigns are wasted on me because I'll never change. But if ever a Coalition government deserved to be returned, I'd say this one should have. Don't think they deserved the thumping they got.
And I'm absolutely gobsmacked I said that lol
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unemployment= as a result of workchoices/awa's
economy=as a result of china/india/japan and anyone who uses about 20 different commodities
they deserve everything they got.
have i been personally affected by the libs. no way i work for a virgin blue who employes over 2000 people.
i just hate what these pricks done to poor working families with their awa's.
suck sh-it
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Record low unemployment, surpluses, booming economy.
I'm a Labor voter through and through - campaigns are wasted on me because I'll never change. But if ever a Coalition government deserved to be returned, I'd say this one should have. Don't think they deserved the thumping they got.
And I'm absolutely gobsmacked I said that lol
Moi, what is the point of record low unemployment if we are all slaves?
And who is the economy booming for? Mostly the top end of town. Most people of my generation, whilst they want not for anything they need, are still finding it hard to get ahead/save for house deposit.
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With the comings and goings (more goings ;D) of the conservative parties (Libs & Nats) I actually see them being in the wilderness for a number of years now.
The federal situation reminds me of what happened in Victoria when Kennett was turfed out and from that the Vic Libs have not recovered (Bobbie Doyle anyone) IMO
They must be really scratching their heads what they did wrong though.
Record low unemployment, surpluses, booming economy.
I'm a Labor voter through and through - campaigns are wasted on me because I'll never change. But if ever a Coalition government deserved to be returned, I'd say this one should have. Don't think they deserved the thumping they got.
And I'm absolutely gobsmacked I said that lol
I think it was a whole combination of things.
11 years in power is a long time so people are receptive to a new face. Rudd campaigned well to promote himself as a fairly "safe" as well as "new" opposition leader unlike timebomb Latham and poor old Beazley. Rudd also tapped into an electorate looking for more than just a beancounter. Howard misread the mood.
Probably a rule of thumb is don't tick off the public by promising something you then don't deliver (Keating with his L.A.W tax cuts and Howard with his record low interest rates) nor make major changes to something most people didn't see broken without asking them first (IR and workchoices). The Libs got carried away after gaining control in the Senate. Another rule of thumb is don't tell the public they've never had it so good when the cost of living and cost of buying a home has skyrocketed :wallywink.
The environment is back as a major election issue thanks to the drought and our less than half-filled dams. Howard first tried to dismiss it saying global warming/climate change was a myth but then at the last minute did a backflip. It just looked like vote-chasing in reaction to bad polls. Same goes for the "fairness test" with Workchoices. Just reactive desperate policy on the run.
Last but not least was the Government constantly stumbling from one scandal or gaff to another in their final term. Leadership and party internal friction, AWB, Iraq, interest rates, etc... The Libs couldn't generate any sustained positive momentum to crawl back ground on Labor. In the end they resorted to a fear and bribe campaign which couldn't con a cynical electorate a third time.
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Interesting you mention the Iraq war MT. Although if was not front and sqare of the campaign I have no doubt it was in peoples (some) thoughts when it came to voting.
I honestly beleive there were 2 main factors in the Howard Govt demise.
1. was Workchoices - not just the lesgislation but how it was introduced. No mention at the last election but was bought out after the won and had control of the Senate.
which brings me number 2.
Having control Senate I think some people think they abused that privledge
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Good to see the Libs so united behind new leader Brendon Nelson that the vote was split 45-42 with Turnbull and Tony Abbott still wanting the gig :wallywink.
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Good to see the Libs so united behind new leader Brendon Nelson that the vote was split 45-42 with Turnbull and Tony Abbott still wanting the gig :wallywink.
Bit like watching the Labour party for the last 10 years pre Rudd ;D
Actually the Libs' ship seems rather "rudderless" at the minute :wallywink :eyebrow
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Turnbull wasn't Howard's lovechild during the republican debate :nope.
I think Howard appointed him his parliamentary secretary so he could keep an eye on him more than anything else lol
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Well one of the most stupid decisons has already been made by the Labor Party by allocating two of the most important and labour intensive
portfolio's in Education and Industrial relations to one person, Julia Gillard. :banghead Plus the deputy PM job also. ::)
Oh this is going to be a fun 4 years. :chuck
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Bracks tried to do a similar thing here in Victoria when he first won when he made himself treasurer on top of being premier. It didn't last long and he handed the treasury over to Brumby as having two big portfolios is too much work for one person.
The news saying it's confirmed Howard has lost his seat Bennelong. So he's offically gone for good.
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Howard may have lost the election and his seat but he'll make a fortune out of it.
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FORMER prime minister John Howard has signed with the prestigious Washington Speakers Bureau, which represents world power brokers including former British leader Tony Blair.
Mr Howard, who was tossed out of government last November after 11 years leading the country, is now available to deliver addresses on two topics for a hefty fee.
The two topics listed on the Washington Speakers Bureau website are Leadership in the New Century and the Global Economic Future.
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,23072496-5005961,00.html
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hmm - innerestin - I think he has more currency in the USA than here in Australia.
I predict that he will have some short term success in the USA, virtually none here, and then fade away.
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who cares about him.
he is a tosser
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Politics - so many colleagues but no one is a friend :whistle
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Revealed: the moment John Howard accepted he was beaten
Gerard McManus
February 18, 2008
FORMER prime minister John Howard knew on election day he was doomed, telling a confidant he was "dead meat".
In an explosive ABC Four Corners program, airing tonight, senior Liberal Party colleagues reveal how they repeatedly tried to get him to step aside in favour of the then treasurer Peter Costello.
Former workplace relations minister Joe Hockey admits on the program that he had no idea WorkChoices would leave workers worse off.
And another former minister, Andrew Robb, says WorkChoices was the most powerful symbol that the government had lost touch with "Howard's battlers".
Tonight's Four Corners recounts the disintegration of the Howard government in its last year.
But it also reveals more details about the leadership paralysis born of the secret Howard-Costello succession "deal" brokered by Ian McLachlan in the mid-1990s, before the Coalition won power.
It says Mr Costello was reluctant to enter the deal, which would have resulted in a hand-over after 1 1/2 terms.
And Mr Costello tells the program that Mr Howard, who ultimately served four terms, chose to hold on to the prime ministership despite knowing his deputy would quit politics if the government lost in November.
Mr Costello says that, in the end, there was never any chance of Mr Howard going of his own volition.
"I don't think he was ever going to stand down," Mr Costello said.
"I think every time he considered it, he decided he was going to stay."
But former foreign affairs minister Alexander Downer insists that, had the Costello forces restrained themselves during 2006, Mr Howard would have gone quietly in December that year.
Mr Robb, a Victorian MP and former federal party director, says Mr Howard should have been forced out.
And Senate leader Nick Minchin reveals he personally tried to get Mr Howard to quit, approaching the PM's right-hand man, Arthur Sinodinos, and Mr Downer before the Howard government's 10th anniversary in 2006.
But Victorian senator Judith Troeth says Mr Costello's failure to win the leadership was his own fault, because he treated his colleagues with disdain.
Mr Costello also concedes the Howard government should have ratified the Kyoto protocol years before it became an electoral liability.
"I think people would have listened to what we were doing, which was quite substantive on climate change, if we'd ratified it," Mr Costello says.
Even Howard loyalist Tony Abbott concedes it was a mistake not to ratify the UN treaty.
The Four Corners report, "Howard's End" will be screened at 8.30pm.
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,23229905-661,00.html
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Remember a similar ABC doco after Keating got the stuff. Labor in Power or whatever it was called. Amazing anything gets done with pollies on the same side sniping each other. You've got to love the Libs coming out now after they've lost and say Howard was wrong on policy and should have retired before the election :wallywink.
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should be a cracker tonight on the abc. 830 i think its on.
ill get the pop corn ready and watch these losers all bag each other. hahaha
howard is a sore loser and his obese mate hockey can go get f....
and now they r blocking the abolition of awa's. sour grapes perhaps..
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Looks like Kevin07 is gunna end up with some kind of record. :rollin
Knew he was full of it.
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Politics is like footy. 5-6 months till the election is ages for anything to happen. Howard was on the ropes too in his first term before going with the GST.
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http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/labor-considers-axing-rudd/story-e6frf7l6-1225883380388
LABOR powerbrokers are considering a move to axe Kevin Rudd tonight or tomorrow and replace him with Julia Gillard, press reports say.
ABC News and Sky News are both reporting that senior party figures have been canvassing members ahead of a move to dump the Prime Minister and replace him with his deputy within the next 24 hours.
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The shame about Aussie politics is our best alternative PM, Malcolm Turnbull, is too sensible for the extremists on either side of politics and as a result will be a spectator to all of this. I say this as a Labor voter.
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http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/labor-considers-axing-rudd/story-e6frf7l6-1225883380388
LABOR powerbrokers are considering a move to axe Kevin Rudd tonight or tomorrow and replace him with Julia Gillard, press reports say.
ABC News and Sky News are both reporting that senior party figures have been canvassing members ahead of a move to dump the Prime Minister and replace him with his deputy within the next 24 hours.
see ya round like a big fat donut.
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Caucus meeting 9am tomorrow to have a ballot on the ALP leadership. Rudd will contest it.
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I don't think I could handle a Gillard led labor party. Back to the bad old days. Backstabbing whore.
It is unheard of that the bloke who led Labor out of the abyss should be knifed like this and a sad reflection on the Labor machine.
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Yep it's an amazing fall especially in Australia politics. Political suicide for mine whoever wins the leadership tomorrow. As you say Jake I think the public won't like backstabbing although it's the norm in politics and both sides do it. Rudd made the mistake of fighting too many battles at once and making too many enemies. Mind you if he spoke like he did tonight for most of the past year he wouldn't be in trouble in the first place. Incredible that the ETS has killed off leaders of both parties. The Liberal one for supporting it and the Labor one for putting it on the backburner.
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Yep it's an amazing fall especially in Australia politics. Political suicide for mine whoever wins the leadership tomorrow. As you say Jake I think the public won't like backstabbing although it's the norm in politics and both sides do it.
Only in opposition MT. Why do we now start ditching PMs based on opinion polls.
Rudd made the mistake of fighting too many battles at once and making too many enemies. Mind you if he spoke like he did tonight for most of the past year he wouldn't be in trouble in the first place. Incredible that the ETS has killed off leaders of both parties. The Liberal one for supporting it and the Labor one for putting it on the backburner.
Agreed it was a good speech.
The ETS was an issue of almost unprecedented complexity in Australian politics. This all started rolling with the Libs knifing Turnbull. That meant any coalition support for the ETS went out the window. In the meantime, the Greens played the role of environmental terrorist with a 'tax or nothing' stance when if they fell in behind Labor they might have got Turnbull and MacFarlane on board. So the Greens are quite unreasonable and should never be treated as a serious political party with Brown as leader. Then you have all the international politics and Australia just doesn't hold any sway.
Still I don't think ETS is a big issue because 95% of Greens votes would eventually come back to Labor.
It is really the mining tax. The problem from a PR point of view is that from the outside it just looks like big government. And as a frontier country, we have a natural disposition to the sort or conservative, 'private enterprise' mindset that opposes this. On top of this, our capitalist egalitarianism, for all its virtues, helps breed a society where everything comes second to personal wealth. That is to say we have few institutional means of defining what a good, well-lived life really is other than to be wealthy. We don't have the great scientific institutions to harness the best minds, we don't have the great literary, journalistic or artistic traditions of other nations, nor do we have a great reputation for philanthropy. All we are left with is that very middle class desire to accumulate more wealth than the next (or to retire before your mates - see WAT). We are just fortunate that we are sitting on a bunch of resources.
So Rudd could have given the mining tax a real purpose by saying that it was going to real targets. To raise the numeracy and literacy standards to top of class, to fund research into renewable energies, to solve the homeless problem etc etc
Nonetheless, the mining tax would have funded the social infrastructure and in my travels I have to say the places that are most welcoming and where people are most happy (and this is backed by research) are those with a strong social democracy (Denmark, Sweden, Finland etc). So the real question re. the mining tax and other forms of taxation is what is more important? Personal wealth or personal happiness?
Anyway I hope Rudd hangs on because it isn't right that a serious democracy ditches its PM halfway through his first term.
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Only in opposition MT. Why do we now start ditching PMs based on opinion polls.
Internal ALP polling especially in marginal seats was/is pretty bad apparently. I wonder also if Labor powerbrokers remember their political history and are spooked by what happened to Chifley with the banks. Notice the opponents to the mining tax were quick to jump on the "Nationalisation of the mining industry" slogan. Some similarities there although there's no cold war for the Libs now to play the reds under the beds line.
The ETS was an issue of almost unprecedented complexity in Australian politics. This all started rolling with the Libs knifing Turnbull. That meant any coalition support for the ETS went out the window. In the meantime, the Greens played the role of environmental terrorist with a 'tax or nothing' stance when if they fell in behind Labor they might have got Turnbull and MacFarlane on board. So the Greens are quite unreasonable and should never be treated as a serious political party with Brown as leader. Then you have all the international politics and Australia just doesn't hold any sway.
Still I don't think ETS is a big issue because 95% of Greens votes would eventually come back to Labor.
It is really the mining tax. The problem from a PR point of view is that from the outside it just looks like big government. And as a frontier country, we have a natural disposition to the sort or conservative, 'private enterprise' mindset that opposes this. On top of this, our capitalist egalitarianism, for all its virtues, helps breed a society where everything comes second to personal wealth. That is to say we have few institutional means of defining what a good, well-lived life really is other than to be wealthy. We don't have the great scientific institutions to harness the best minds, we don't have the great literary, journalistic or artistic traditions of other nations, nor do we have a great reputation for philanthropy. All we are left with is that very middle class desire to accumulate more wealth than the next (or to retire before your mates - see WAT). We are just fortunate that we are sitting on a bunch of resources.
So Rudd could have given the mining tax a real purpose by saying that it was going to real targets. To raise the numeracy and literacy standards to top of class, to fund research into renewable energies, to solve the homeless problem etc etc
Nonetheless, the mining tax would have funded the social infrastructure and in my travels I have to say the places that are most welcoming and where people are most happy (and this is backed by research) are those with a strong social democracy (Denmark, Sweden, Finland etc). So the real question re. the mining tax and other forms of taxation is what is more important? Personal wealth or personal happiness?
Anyway I hope Rudd hangs on because it isn't right that a serious democracy ditches its PM halfway through his first term.
The ETS backdown meant Rudd couldn't afford another backdown in the public's eyes and so he's stuck fast to the mining tax proposal without modification. The budget being back in surplus in 3 years depends on it too. I agree he's poorly sold the RSPT or at least left it too late and he needed more concrete examples of where the money from the tax will be going so the public could relate more to the benefits.
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2010 Federal Election has been set for August 21.
5 weeks of being bombarded by political ads and pollies kissing babies at shopping centres :P.
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Really not much of a choice this time around
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Really not much of a choice this time around
Actually that's quite funny Jake because it's exactly what we've talking about in our household.
Not much of choice on one hand but a clear and simple choice on the other
I not a fan of either one of them as leaders but when I compare one against the other the choice for me at least becomes a very easy
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not sure about you guys but its been two days since this election has started officially and im over the "Moving Forward" slogan by Gillard.
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Well I am a Labor voter normally, but these are the main points for me
* Gillard has moved Labor to the right already with the resources tax and the asylum seekers policy. It seems that there is little between them on major policy really. If you have a choice between two centre-right parties then maybe the best one is the one that actually believes in core conservative principles and not the one making a desperate shift for votes. Fact is with Kev I think there was a clear distinction that he was going to be different (more compassionate) from Howard on immigration, work choices, the apology etc There really is no social democratic option this time around.
* If you vote for Gillard's Labor, is she going to get more than 2-3 years in the job or will the machine take care of her too?
At this stage I will vote libs for the first time, just because I think Labor needs a bit of tough love from its own. Abbott hasn't been all that impressive and some of his shadow ministers are dead set scary (e.g. Cory Bernardi) but like I said you can't have government run by opinion polls like the current Labor factions do.
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not sure about you guys but its been two days since this election has started officially and im over the "Moving Forward" slogan by Gillard.
Ditto with Tony's "Action Plan" :rollin
At this stage I will vote libs for the first time, just because I think Labor needs a bit of tough love from its own.
I think that's the view of a number of people Jake but I think it is a very scary way to consider voting. History has shown that when people think like that and subsequently vote like that parties get voted out, we have a change and then within 12 months the same people are saying "why did I do that".
It is what happened here in Victoria with Kennett and to a degree with Howard. After Kennett got turfed the Liberals here imploded and have never recovered; moreso from a dearth of quality leaders. The Federal Lbierals are to an extent in the same boat, they've been "Rudd-erless" (pardon the terrible pun) since the last election but have been to a degree granted a lifeline not by their own making but by the soap opera that's been the federal Labor Party in recent times
Personally I idea of Abbott leading this country is to scary for words for me, his views on certain social issues is archaic to say the least and with that in mind I don't want him leadingt his country
As I said yesterday the choices on offer aren't great but when I stop and consider it becomes a very clear & simple choice for me
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Vote 1 - Tone
Stop the Waste
Payback the Debt
Stop the Boats
thats a slogan not that moving forward poo.
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Vote 1 - Tone
Stop the Waste
Payback the Debt
Stop the Boats
thats a slogan not that moving forward poo.
No no that's an action plan Ramps ;D
And there's only one important missing ingredient in it Ramps and that's the HOW
How is he going to stop the boats? Payback the debt and stop the waste
It's all about HOW for me
Actuall I'd like to know how any of them are going to stop the boats and please don't say just turn 'em around
And BTW poor old Tony's done a backflip this morning on 3AW about workchoices - he says he's cremated them and they wont be back but then siad he couldn't guarantee in the future that parts of it wouldn't come back :rollin
He's off to a fine start
At least The Flaming Red Head has headed into softer pastures to campaign today in Townsville
It's going to be a bumper 5 weeks of nothingness :rollin
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I always thought Andrew Peacock's "It's not right is it?" was the most lame and annoying slogan of all time but I think both parties have even trumped him this election. You can tell both parties have got some advertising firm to come up with the cliched slogans. 5 more weeks of having to listen to them too :chuck.
The only thing positive about this election is Fielding now has no chance of keeping his senate seat. One less loopy independent holding the balance of power and exploiting it.
It's all about HOW for me
Actuall I'd like to know how any of them are going to stop the boats and please don't say just turn 'em around
Same here WP. There's no HOW in anything Abbott says. It's all I've got this great big magic wand to solve every problem.
Actually I laugh at anyone who is actually stupid enough to believe any leader can turn the boats around. Both parties are just pandering to the redneck losers of society who need a scapegoat to blame for their own miserable existence. Yep what a real problem boat people are given they make up just 1-2% of our total immigration intake per annum. So much for our borders being unprotected and being "swamped by Asians" :sleep. The only way you truly can stop the boats is to give these boat people a reason not to leave their homeland in the first place. Given most countries around the world are TPLCs (as Sir Humphrey Appleby would describe them lol) where corruption, political instability and war is rife, that ain't going to happen in our lifetime. We've had boat people arriving on our shores at least since the 1970s. The more things change the more they remain the same.
As for reducing government waste - if any leader really wanted to save taxpayers money he or she would abolish all middle-class welfare in an instant. But they'll never have the guts to do it because the middle-class welfare targets the mortgage belts and marginal electorates that win elections. It would be political suicide.
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What I don't understand about the 'boat people' thing is why it cannot be turned into a positive for Australia
We need to develop regional centres. Why can't asylum seekers be issued with a work visa that restricts them to working in particular jobs in particular areas that need to be developed. If you come here to work as a skilled migrant you might be restricted to work for a single company so it is not so unfair on reflection. I don't buy the whole argument 'you can't put these people in regional areas there is no support for them there' remember they are coming from persecution so anything is better than where they have been.
Asylum seekers would receive:
* Training in a particular vocation at a cost which they pay back at low interest much like HECS/HELP/whatever it is called these days.
* Training in language and adapting to Australian life. They would be provided with whatever cultural/religious/counselling needs they might require.
After a few years they can move on with skills that make them employable. The scheme would be open to job seekers too.
Obviously you would have to be sure that there is not exploitation of workers and it doesn't become a pseudo slave trade, but I cannot see why this scheme can't get off the ground. The only people who would reject it are the hardline Christian islamophobes.
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As for reducing government waste - if any leader really wanted to save taxpayers money he or she would abolish all middle-class welfare in an instant. But they'll never have the guts to do it because the middle-class welfare targets the mortgage belts and marginal electorates that win elections. It would be political suicide.
that is the most wildest thing i have heard whipe out middle-class welfare.
:o
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What I don't understand about the 'boat people' thing is why it cannot be turned into a positive for Australia
We need to develop regional centres. Why can't asylum seekers be issued with a work visa that restricts them to working in particular jobs in particular areas that need to be developed. If you come here to work as a skilled migrant you might be restricted to work for a single company so it is not so unfair on reflection. I don't buy the whole argument 'you can't put these people in regional areas there is no support for them there' remember they are coming from persecution so anything is better than where they have been.
Asylum seekers would receive:
* Training in a particular vocation at a cost which they pay back at low interest much like HECS/HELP/whatever it is called these days.
* Training in language and adapting to Australian life. They would be provided with whatever cultural/religious/counselling needs they might require.
After a few years they can move on with skills that make them employable. The scheme would be open to job seekers too.
Obviously you would have to be sure that there is not exploitation of workers and it doesn't become a pseudo slave trade, but I cannot see why this scheme can't get off the ground. The only people who would reject it are the hardline Christian islamophobes.
Well there's that Victorian country town whose shire council has put its hand up to be considered a regional immigration centre because the town is dying from a falling population. So obviously some country towns and regions would be interested in your idea Jake. I'd doubt the government and opposition would though as I believe that both parties want an offshore facility so they can wipe their hands of any responsibility for asylum seekers and make out they look tough on border protection. Perception often rules in politics :P.
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As for reducing government waste - if any leader really wanted to save taxpayers money he or she would abolish all middle-class welfare in an instant. But they'll never have the guts to do it because the middle-class welfare targets the mortgage belts and marginal electorates that win elections. It would be political suicide.
that is the most wildest thing i have heard whipe out middle-class welfare.
:o
It's not that wild a conception. I'd rather see our money spent on bringing our ageing infrastructure into the 21st century which will add economic benefit for years to come rather than on baby bonuses and alike. Although I think the Greens are loopy lefties I do agree with their idea of a VFT between Melbourne and Sydney to take the load off one of the busiest air corridors in the world. We're about to become the only habitated continent without very fast rail which is embarrassing although not surprising. In Australia our pollies and bureaucrats think reaching a maximum speed of 160km/hr for a few km on a regional line is very fast for a train ::). Our State governments of both persuasions produce report after report to improve our metro transport systems decade after decade but nothing ever gets done as they need Federal Government money to fund it which never comes through.
The wildest thing in this election btw is the debate being moved forward an hour so the public can watch Masterchef :lol. Good to see how much our modern day pollies capture the imagination of the Aussie public :wallywink :rollin.
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Vote 1 - Tone
Stop the Waste
Payback the Debt
Stop the Boats
thats a slogan not that moving forward poo.
No no that's an action plan Ramps ;D
And there's only one important missing ingredient in it Ramps and that's the HOW
How is he going to stop the boats? Payback the debt and stop the waste
It's all about HOW for me
Actuall I'd like to know how any of them are going to stop the boats and please don't say just turn 'em around
And BTW poor old Tony's done a backflip this morning on 3AW about workchoices - he says he's cremated them and they wont be back but then siad he couldn't guarantee in the future that parts of it wouldn't come back :rollin
He's off to a fine start
At least The Flaming Red Head has headed into softer pastures to campaign today in Townsville
It's going to be a bumper 5 weeks of nothingness :rollin
How to stop the boats- Answer: Put a big sign up in the ocean that says - Australia that way <------ ;D
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How to stop the boats- Answer: Put a big sign up in the ocean that says - Australia that way <------ ;D
:clapping :clapping You really should be in politics Ramps ;D
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We've had boat people arriving on our shores at least since the 1970s. The more things change the more they remain the same.
Actually MT, we've had boat people arrive on our shores since 1788
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Libs could repay the debt by increasing the GST
It's their baby and NZ has increased theirs twice in the last couple of years from 12.5 to 15 per cent.
I can just imagine Michael Kroger announcing this on election night, like he did with the their industrial reforms the last time they got in which wasn't in the policies announced before the election if I remember right.
Don't trust the bastards lol
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How to stop the boats- Answer: Put a big sign up in the ocean that says - Australia that way <------ ;D
:clapping :clapping You really should be in politics Ramps ;D
I forgot to add - that the sign should point to Afghanistan ;D
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Vote 1 - Tone
Stop the Waste
Payback the Debt
Stop the Boats
thats a slogan not that moving forward poo.
Agree Ramps
But most of all....Stop the ETS! Hell my energy bills have skyrocketed already.
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inject all politicians with rabid cancer cells and make them work on a vaccine.
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In the past Richmond supporters were Labor to the hilt ... but are we still Labor supporters or have we moved on to become Liberal Supporters. What does RFC stand for politically? If Richmond FC was a person and had a vote would Richmond FC be a Socialist or be an up standing member of society who votes Liberal?
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In the past Richmond supporters were Labor to the hilt ... but are we still Labor supporters or have we moved on to become Liberal Supporters. What does RFC stand for politically? If Richmond FC was a person and had a vote would Richmond FC be a Socialist or be an up standing member of society who votes Liberal?
Reality is that footy clubs don't really stand for what they used to.
Richmond were early on an Irish-Catholic club and Catholics have tended to support Labor Right. But 1) it wouldn't take much for someone from Labor right to support the coalition, 2) we aren't really a catholic club anymore.
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True Jake as demonstrated by Andrew Bolt and Steve Price being Tiger supporters :-X
Actually MT, we've had boat people arrive on our shores since 1788
lol :clapping
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The Debate is on tonight. not sure how it will go seeing how both partys aren't going to stronge on opinionating policy's that could lead to a down turn in the polls. Thats one tick i gotta give to the greens they know what they stand for and they stick to it thats why you either hate them or vote for them.
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The Debate is on tonight. not sure how it will go seeing how both partys aren't going to stronge on opinionating policy's that could lead to a down turn in the polls. Thats one tick i gotta give to the greens they know what they stand for and they stick to it thats why you either hate them or vote for them.
Its the most boring election between two stand-for-anything-that-gets-me-votes politicians. The big differences (i.e. that Abbott is a religious social conservative and that Gillard is an atheist) have not been exposed by any key policy yet.
I was going to vote Abbott, but the coalition candidate in my electorate I hate with a passion.
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im stuck in the same boat, i would rather liberal generally but my local lib candidate is just apoorling sadly.
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LOL I live on one of safest Labor seats in the country .... a 20+% swing for it to change hands
And the debate was very funny TV indeed
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I live in a safe Liberal seat :P and the sitting member's surname rhymes with what he is lol ;)
As for the debate last night :P. The only entertaining factor was some of the quotes:
Gillard - "We didn't want to see people lose their houses. Or lose their homes. Or have their mortgages foreclosed on them"
Abbott - "Don't listen to slogans. I'm going to cut taxes and stop the boats. That's my action contract"
:wallywink :rollin
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I live in a safe Liberal seat :P and the sitting member's surname rhymes with what he is lol ;)
As for the debate last night :P. The only entertaining factor was some of the quotes:
Gillard - "We didn't want to see people lose their houses. Or lose their homes. Or have their mortgages foreclosed on them"
Abbott - "Don't listen to slogans. I'm going to cut taxes and stop the boats. That's my action contract"
:wallywink :rollin
I told ya it was funny TV
:rollin :rollin
And can anyone tell me what this gem means exactly :P
"We will introduce no new big taxes" - Tony Abbott
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seems the wheels are falling of labors campaign with there leakers :o
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This election campaign is a cure for insomnia :sleep. Just get on with the voting.
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seems the wheels are falling of labors campaign with there leakers :o
I dont' think Tony's is going great either Ramps.
FLip FLop season is here ;D
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Abbott is obviously a big fan of Aussie Rules :wallywink :lol
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seems the wheels are falling of labors campaign with there leakers :o
I dont' think Tony's is going great either Ramps.
FLip FLop season is here ;D
Is the election still on? ;D
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Is the election still on? ;D
Unfortunately yes :yep
Rudd rushed to hospital btw to have his gall bladder removed :o.
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no bets taken on whose fingerprints are on the blade they remove. :whistle
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Rudd rushed to hospital btw to have his gall bladder removed :o.
Convenient excuse for him to play a minimal part in the campaign. He could have had discomfort for a long time.
Labor machine possibly getting everything it deserves.
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Rudd rushed to hospital btw to have his gall bladder removed :o.
Convenient excuse for him to play a minimal part in the campaign. He could have had discomfort for a long time.
Labor machine possibly getting everything it deserves.
Fair enough being cynical about pollies and the timing of their motives but in this instance I don't think they get their gall bladder taken out as part of political strategy ;). In fact this has kept Rudd in the news again.
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Coalition in election winning lead in latest poll.
Major major trouble for Labor if they lose this one from where they were. Their PM and PM-in-waiting 6 months ago both deemed unelectable, either by the party itself or by the electorate.
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Bring Back Gough ;D
At least Itll be fun watching what happens with Gough In Charge at 92 years of age!
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Coalition in election winning lead in latest poll.
Major major trouble for Labor if they lose this one from where they were. Their PM and PM-in-waiting 6 months ago both deemed unelectable, either by the party itself or by the electorate.
yes if they lost it would be an amazement on how they have blown such successfull opinion polls for the party and 2 leaders in a short space of one term.
they truely must of been worried when they decided to replace rudd.
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However on the nose Rudd was, he was not as bad in front of a camera as Gillard. Its fair dinkum Kath & Kim.
I'm pretty certain Rudd would have killed Abbott head on, but Gillard is finding it hard to find any sort of traction with the electorate.
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Coalition in election winning lead in latest poll.
Shouldn't take much notice at polls... a small sample of people out of millions
Last federal election the polls said it would be close, a knife edge result and it ended up being a one sided result
Would think it isn't over by a long way yet
no bets taken on whose fingerprints are on the blade they remove. :whistle
;D
Hopefully the removing the gall bladder will stop the "leaks"
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Coalition in election winning lead in latest poll.
Shouldn't take much notice at polls... a small sample of people out of millions
Last federal election the polls said it would be close, a knife edge result and it ended up being a one sided result
Would think it isn't over by a long way yet
not looking good for Julia. If i was a betting man id say she is gone for all money
She has lost the support in major states of NSW and QLD but gains in her home state of Vic and SA
2011 will bring work choices back on the agenda and we will have to put up with Howard Mark 2 for the next decade.
That Abbott is a c... of a human being and the thought of him leading the country is enough to make me :chuck
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not looking good for Julia. If i was a betting man id say she is gone for all money
She has lost the support in major states of NSW and QLD but gains in her home state of Vic and SA
That Abbott is a cow of a human being and the thought of him leading the country is enough to make me :chuck
The election will be won or lost in QLD IMHO - the number one swinging; flip/flop state in the country ;D
I don't pay much attention to polls and I still think Labor is a show it will depend on how Julia campaigns next week
Tony did himself damage today with some of his comments.... goodness the bloke is a goose. Yesterday he said if they won the election UMMMMMMMMM he had idea when they'd get the budget back into surplus and now today he said UMMMMM it will be back in surplus in UMMMM 2012-2013. No wonder he doesn't want to debate Julia on the enonomy = clueless. Then today he refers to the current govt as the UMMM former govt.. UMM I mean current govt
And daniel I do agree with your last statement (edited of course ;D)
As I said the choice isn't great but it is pretty clear from where i am sitting
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not looking good for Julia. If i was a betting man id say she is gone for all money
She has lost the support in major states of NSW and QLD but gains in her home state of Vic and SA
That Abbott is a cow of a human being and the thought of him leading the country is enough to make me :chuck
The election will be won or lost in QLD IMHO - the number one swinging; flip/flop state in the country ;D
I don't pay much attention to polls and I still think Labor is a show it will depend on how Julia campaigns next week
Tony did himself damage today with some of his comments.... goodness the bloke is a goose. Yesterday he said if they won the election UMMMMMMMMM he had idea when they'd get the budget back into surplus and now today he said UMMMMM it will be back in surplus in UMMMM 2012-2013. No wonder he doesn't want to debate Julia on the enonomy = clueless. Then today he refers to the current govt as the UMMM former govt.. UMM I mean current govt
And daniel I do agree with your last statement (edited of course ;D)
As I said the choice isn't great but it is pretty clear from where i am sitting
You see why dont labour come out on the front foot and attack that prick for his comments today.
when she opens her mouth. e.g calling for a second debate the Libs were quick to attack the parties credibility saying they are scared, they are desperate. etc etc
I just hope Swan nails Hockey to the wall Monday night and shows Hockey up for the obese fraud that he is for i see that as labour's only hope to hold power.
WP forget QLD they are gone, they want change for what Labour did to Rudd, their home grown boy.
Labour's only hope is to gain more seats in Victoria and S.A which i heard tonight is on the cards.
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WP forget QLD they are gone, they want change for what Labour did to Rudd, their home grown boy.
Labour's only hope is to gain more seats in Victoria and S.A which i heard tonight is on the cards.
Sydney marginals are the others ones they need to go after IMHO as well an ensuring they retain & claim a couple of marginals in Vic. First one I'd love to see them get is Fran Bailey's seat... cannot stand that sooky sooky la-la ;D
IIRC The Libs/Nats need 13 seats to claim a win - I don't think they will get that in Qld but will get a few. NSW is the next battle ground.
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Daniel and WP,
If I was to ask you both which player would you prefer if you had to choose one, what would be the overiding criteria for you?
Wouldn't you look at they're performance history?
I would stack up Abbotts history against Gillards any day of the week.
On the issue of the economy. Well there is only one of the two that have an economics
degree and it ain't Julia she studied law and we all know what lawyers are good at.
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The thing about Labor is if you vote for Jullia, there is no guarantee she will be in the job in 12 or 24 months time.
However, the way she is going, that might encourage me to vote for them.
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On workchoices.
He stated that work choices is dead, buried and cremated.
Well I listened to that interview on 3AW and he then signed a contract with Neil on radio because they kept asking the same questions over and over.
Then he was asked specificaly by a caller about the rights of junior workers and how it's unfair the labour goverment changed the legistlation on how many hours minimum that they can work.
He then stated that there are many areas of legislation that can be considered or changed if they are unfair.
Then he went on to say that BUT on the issue of workchoices we ( the liberal party ) have considered the voice of the people in 2007 and we have heard it loud and clear.... Workchoices is dead.
The fact is that he apposed workchoices when the Howard goverment proposed it. Fact.
I think this fella is unfairly critisised.
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On Julia "moving forward" Gillard.
Moving forward from what ???????
The mistakes and waste of the past 3 years??
Now I'm not saying that their ideas werernt good ones but the implementation and waste of tax payer Money is a crime.
It is plain to see that this goverment isn't capable.
Are we supposed to believe that Kevin 07 was a one man band. The fella wasn't even in the country half the time.
Are we all supposed to believe that Julia had no say in BER, pink batts, etc.
Give me a break.
Then she tries to sell us a heap of bull when telling us she is a economic consevative and she likes to makes checks and balances when considering policy.
What a load of crap??? Where was her voice in all of the stuff ups and money wasting. She is cleary the biggest Charlatan in politics.
Now we will see the real Julia..... What a joke. Who have we been seeing all this time????????
Labour governments at state level have a history of axing the elected leader of the party and making a female lead when the polls say they are on the ropes or when they have completly stuffed up.
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Daniel and WP,
If I was to ask you both which player would you prefer if you had to choose one, what would be the overiding criteria for you?
Wouldn't you look at they're performance history?
I would stack up Abbotts history against Gillards any day of the week.
On the issue of the economy. Well there is only one of the two that have an economics
degree and it ain't Julia she studied law and we all know what lawyers are good at.
You know Mr Tigra you are right.... and guess what I have looked at their performance history and it's Abbott's performance that has me against him....
His constant "foot in mouth" is enough to make ones skin crawl.... His stupid flippant "no means no" comment (when discussing the debate) the other day was cringeworthy...
When he was Health Minister what did he do exactly? We had (and still do) a system in a mess and what did he do to fix it?
Regarding "workchoices"? You honestly believe its dead because he scribbled it on a piece of paper? This from the same man who said earlier this year in another "foot in mouth" moment that pollies don't tell the truth all the time when discussing policies?
You are critical about the "Moving Forward" slogan but you think Abbott's "action Plan" slogan/mantra is any better? What is that exactly?
Tony keeps telling me what he's gonna do (I'll stop the boats, etc) but he still hasn't said how he is going to do it.. He keeps telling me eveything that's wrong with the current govt but doesn't seem big on telling me how he's going to "fix" things.
Yesterday he back flipped on the Paid Parental Leave scheme; delaying its start by 12 months because the bloke with the economics degree and his party got its costings on this policy very very wrong. He's said he wont bring in any "new BIG taxes" only "small ones" - seriously what does that mean exactly
Then his shadow Finance Minister said last week that they wouldn't release their costings on their policy because all their costings are capped and because they are capped they don't need to release them? What the????
And lets not forget yesterday's flip flop over the when he'd have the budget back into surplus. Yep the guy the with the economics degree certainly has the runs on the board and credibility when it comes to the finances
And let's not even get started on some of Tony'e pathetic comments that have (rightly) upset/annoyed the femal population....
As for Julia she aint that great either but compared to Abbott as I 've said it a pretty easy choice from where I am sitting
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WP
I think you've got dizzy by all of the ALP spin.
Even as early as yesterday the ALP were praising the Howard government on it's economic managment of the country.
Even the ALP, the party you love have agreed that they weren't travelling too good and had "gone off the rails". So they think it's ok to knife the elected prime minister.
It's as though you are blinded by Julia's red/orange glow.
In every portfolio that Abbott has been minister of there was no wastage atleast we new the money was well spent.
You can't say this from Julia's first try at running a portfolio. Waste waste waste watse
she's throwing your money away mate money from "working australians"
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Even as early as yesterday the ALP were praising the Howard government on it's economic managment of the country.
Both Howard and Costello are no longer there.
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Even as early as yesterday the ALP were praising the Howard government on it's economic managment of the country.
Both Howard and Costello are no longer there.
yes it's a shame that costello didn't hang around his record is impecable. I agree he has much more charisma than Abbott.
But I think people critisize him for the wrong reasons
Ok he's boring but he's a Rhodes Scholar what do you expect?
Julia is a good media performer. Well she's a lawyer they are good at spinning crap!
People don't like his choice of swimwear. Well what triathlete or marathon runner wears board shorts?
What a load of crap that people complain about him. Atleast he's super fit & Disciplined!
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Ok. Besides the apology to indeginous Australians, what has this government acheived without wasting money or stuffing up completely?
Or should we get the ALP to tell us? Maybe they'll form a commitee and spend another billion of our money to tell us that they are "moving forward" from past mistakes.
So all you ALP lovers tell me of their greatest acheivements in the last 3 years.
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I agree he has much more charisma than Abbott.
I never said anything about charisma
Just noting that the people that managed the economy so well under the Liberal Party are no longer there and they have as much to prove their credentials - actually more, because Labor has proven theirs over the last couple of years. A shame Abbott won't have the economics debate. Instead, he just said she was calling for it because she was failing in the polls. No, Tony, it's actually for the Australian people to understand what both parties have to offer.
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I agree he has much more charisma than Abbott.
I never said anything about charisma
Just noting that the people that managed the economy so well under the Liberal Party are no longer there and they have as much to prove their credentials - actually more, because Labor has proven theirs over the last couple of years. A shame Abbott won't have the economics debate. Instead, he just said she was calling for it because she was failing in the polls. No, Tony, it's actually for the Australian people to understand what both parties have to offer.
what????? You stated that labour has proven themselves in the last 3 years. What have they proven? That they are unable to be trusted with our money.
They've already admitted that they are useless but aparently we are to beleive it was all Kevins fault.
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On workchoices.
He stated that work choices is dead, buried and cremated.
Well I listened to that interview on 3AW and he then signed a contract with Neil on radio because they kept asking the same questions over and over.
Then he was asked specificaly by a caller about the rights of junior workers and how it's unfair the labour goverment changed the legistlation on how many hours minimum that they can work.
He then stated that there are many areas of legislation that can be considered or changed if they are unfair.
Then he went on to say that BUT on the issue of workchoices we ( the liberal party ) have considered the voice of the people in 2007 and we have heard it loud and clear.... Workchoices is dead.
The fact is that he apposed workchoices when the Howard goverment proposed it. Fact.
I think this fella is unfairly critisised.
Tigra if you think work choices are dead you are living in another world. They will come back bigger than ever, albeit with different wordings. The result will be the same and its the workers who will feel the pinch. By the way it makes no difference to me personally in my occupation but i saw it personally happen to people around me and it wasn't good
The economic crudentials of the labour party in the last few years are far superiour than anything the Liberals have ever dished up. We avoided recession and before any of you start jumping up and down and saying at what cost bla bla bla well i didnt see any of you complaining when you took the $900 and kept it or when you insulated your house as i did. Maybe when you took the chance to collect the 50% tax break on the company car before December 30. Liberal voters have turned but only after they accepted all the handouts with open arms.
The biggest mistake Rudd did was not sack Garrett on the spot and make a stand. Outside of that the measures Labour put in place have been excellent
Rudd would've had the edge over Abbott. Gillard though i cant be too sure but still the choice is simple. Howard's little puppet or Gillard.
I wished someone stopped the boat when that f u k w i t arrived in our country.
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The biggest mistake Rudd did was not sack Garrett on the spot and make a stand. Outside of that the measures Labour put in place have been excellent
Kev should have read the correspondence from Garrett when he highlighted the dangers of the scheme.
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The biggest mistake Rudd did was not sack Garrett on the spot and make a stand. Outside of that the measures Labour put in place have been excellent
Kev should have read the correspondence from Garrett when he highlighted the dangers of the scheme.
Totally agree with you there which is why he should stood up like a man admitted the buck stops with him sacked garrett on the spot and moved on.
But that aside there were many people who benefited from the scheme probably a fair few who jump up and down bagging the labour party.
Bunch of hyprocrites i say because they gladly accepted the $900. If they were so dead set against any of the economic policies he put in place to avoid the recession then why were they gutless enough to run to Harvey Norman and spend the money that were given to them
Personally i never received the $900 because i never paid tax therefore im not entitled to it, but i thought apart from the mishandling of K Rudd and the Insulation debacle the Labour party did wonders since thew GFC hit.
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The biggest mistake Rudd did was not sack Garrett on the spot and make a stand. Outside of that the measures Labour put in place have been excellent
Kev should have read the correspondence from Garrett when he highlighted the dangers of the scheme.
Totally agree with you there which is why he should stood up like a man admitted the buck stops with him sacked garrett on the spot and moved on.
But that aside there were many people who benefited from the scheme probably a fair few who jump up and down bagging the labour party.
Bunch of hyprocrites i say because they gladly accepted the $900. If they were so dead set against any of the economic policies he put in place to avoid the recession then why were they gutless enough to run to Harvey Norman and spend the money that were given to them
Personally i never received the $900 because i never paid tax therefore im not entitled to it, but i thought apart from the mishandling of K Rudd and the Insulation debacle the Labour party did wonders since thew GFC hit.
Well, it worked, Labor kept us out of recession :thumbsup
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Bring back Gough!
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The biggest mistake Rudd did was not sack Garrett on the spot and make a stand. Outside of that the measures Labour put in place have been excellent
Kev should have read the correspondence from Garrett when he highlighted the dangers of the scheme.
Totally agree with you there which is why he should stood up like a man admitted the buck stops with him sacked garrett on the spot and moved on.
But that aside there were many people who benefited from the scheme probably a fair few who jump up and down bagging the labour party.
Bunch of hyprocrites i say because they gladly accepted the $900. If they were so dead set against any of the economic policies he put in place to avoid the recession then why were they gutless enough to run to Harvey Norman and spend the money that were given to them
Personally i never received the $900 because i never paid tax therefore im not entitled to it, but i thought apart from the mishandling of K Rudd and the Insulation debacle the Labour party did wonders since thew GFC hit.
The interesting thing about the stimulus package is that initially the coalition jumped up and down saying it'd would work, that it was a waste of money.
But it did work, it kept us out of recession.
So next the coalition do a total back flip and jump up and down saying that it needed to be stopped because it worked too well, that it would lead to inflation.
Again it seems that they wrong as the latest inflation figures were within the Reserve Banks benchmarks.
Yet some people still have this misconception that only the Libs know how to manage the economy.
Politics is even more tribal than footy. Most people are willing to admit deficiencies within their team and acknowledge good performances by other teams, to varying degrees, but when it comes to politics many people can see no wrong with their team and only wrong with the other teams.
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On workchoices.
He stated that work choices is dead, buried and cremated.
Well I listened to that interview on 3AW and he then signed a contract with Neil on radio because they kept asking the same questions over and over.
Then he was asked specificaly by a caller about the rights of junior workers and how it's unfair the labour goverment changed the legistlation on how many hours minimum that they can work.
He then stated that there are many areas of legislation that can be considered or changed if they are unfair.
Then he went on to say that BUT on the issue of workchoices we ( the liberal party ) have considered the voice of the people in 2007 and we have heard it loud and clear.... Workchoices is dead.
The fact is that he apposed workchoices when the Howard goverment proposed it. Fact.
I think this fella is unfairly critisised.
Tigra if you think work choices are dead you are living in another world. They will come back bigger than ever, albeit with different wordings. The result will be the same and its the workers who will feel the pinch. By the way it makes no difference to me personally in my occupation but i saw it personally happen to people around me and it wasn't goodL
The economic crudentials of the labour party in the last few years are far superiour than anything the Liberals have ever dished up. We avoided recession and before any of you start jumping up and down and saying at what cost bla bla bla well i didnt see any of you complaining when you took the $900 and kept it or when you insulated your house as i did. Maybe when you took the chance to collect the 50% tax break on the company car before December 30. Liberal voters have turned but only after they accepted all the handouts with open arms.
The biggest mistake Rudd did was not sack Garrett on the spot and make a stand. Outside of that the measures Labour put in place have been excellent
Rudd would've had the edge over Abbott. Gillard though i cant be too sure but still the choice is simple. Howard's little puppet or Gillard.
I wished someone stopped the boat when that f u k w i t arrived in our country.
you are completly wrong there Dan.
You said, "The economic crudentials of the labour party in the last few years are far superiour than anything the Liberals have ever dished up"
well what are their economic credentials?
Is it that you don't understand economics or you may be blinded by labor loyalism.
I stated that some of there ideas were ok but the implementation was ordinary.
The BER was a good idea when schools are left to work out what they need and how to use the money wisely. This we now know because most private schools have had success in building to their own needs.
But when your leader is allowed to dictate what government schools should have but don't need well that's where the problems arise.
You and I can build a 5 bedroom house for under 350000 but this government couldn't build a structure not much bigger than your lounge for under 500000. This portfolio led by your incompitent labor saviour and current unelected prime minister Julia Gillard.
The fact is that stimulus was a good idea but when people living overseas are getting their payment how can they spend it in this country and stimulate our economy.
I think you must acknowledge as labor do, the strength of our economy before labor took power and the billions of dollars in the black they had to spend.
The fact is Dan that the labor party at federal and state level try to do right but continualy stuff up time and time again. It's a pattern i've seen since I've been alive. My dad was a shop steward and a mad labor man until Paul Keating came along. I don't think he changed camps but I don't think he ever trusted labour again.
I ask you to show me one thing this government has done that they haven't stuffed up. Well if you can't think of one I will help you. They successfully were able to put up a sign on every school in the country announcing the BER. Well done Julia.
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"The Unelected Prime Minister"
This makes me laugh.
Under the Westminster System we do not vote for a prime minister. We vote for a person to represent our electorate and the party that holds the most seats governs the country. The members of that party elect the party leader who is then the prime minister.
6 of the previous 26 Prime ministers of Australia took the position of prime minister without standing the previous election as part leader.
Considering The liberal party have the history of blocking supply to effect the removal of the then prime minister, i find it amusing that they want to push this spin against Gillard, but concerning that so many blindly accept and repeat the tripe as if it actually means something.
Is there no irony in Abbot, who challenged and won from the existing party leader, that position, condemning Gillard for doing the same?
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"The Unelected Prime Minister"
This makes me laugh.
Under the Westminster System we do not vote for a prime minister. We vote for a person to represent our electorate and the party that holds the most seats governs the country. The members of that party elect the party leader who is then the prime minister.
6 of the previous 26 Prime ministers of Australia took the position of prime minister without standing the previous election as part leader.
Considering The liberal party have the history of blocking supply to effect the removal of the then prime minister, i find it amusing that they want to push this spin against Gillard, but concerning that so many blindly accept and repeat the tripe as if it actually means something.
Is there no irony in Abbot, who challenged and won from the existing party leader, that position, condemning Gillard for doing the same?
Al,
the labor party didn't vote.
Gillard was asked repeatedly on several media outlets if she was going to oust Kevin. She told us all numerous times that she wasn't going to do that. I remember her saying so myself listening to her whiney voice on radio and tv where she stated, " there's more chance of me sailing solo around the world than me being prime minister" and also, " there's more chance of me lining up alongside Barry Hall than being prime minister!"
Gillard knifed Kevin '07 and he kindly stepped out of her way. It never went to a vote.
It's something the ALP do, when things are tough or they've stuffed up or they've "gone of the rails"...... they bring in a woman.
FACT!!!!!
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"The Unelected Prime Minister"
This makes me laugh.
Under the Westminster System we do not vote for a prime minister. We vote for a person to represent our electorate and the party that holds the most seats governs the country. The members of that party elect the party leader who is then the prime minister.
6 of the previous 26 Prime ministers of Australia took the position of prime minister without standing the previous election as part leader.
Considering The liberal party have the history of blocking supply to effect the removal of the then prime minister, i find it amusing that they want to push this spin against Gillard, but concerning that so many blindly accept and repeat the tripe as if it actually means something.
Is there no irony in Abbot, who challenged and won from the existing party leader, that position, condemning Gillard for doing the same?
Al,
the labor party didn't vote.
Gillard was asked repeatedly on several media outlets if she was going to oust Kevin. She told us all numerous times that she wasn't going to do that. I remember her saying so myself listening to her whiney voice on radio and tv where she stated, " there's more chance of me sailing solo around the world than me being prime minister" and also, " there's more chance of me lining up alongside Barry Hall than being prime minister!"
Gillard knifed Kevin '07 and he kindly stepped out of her way. It never went to a vote.
It's something the ALP do, when things are tough or they've stuffed up or they've "gone of the rails"...... they bring in a woman.
FACT!!!!!
How did Abbott become leader? lol
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Just like " Lazarus with a triple bypass" or "No GST Ever" or any of the countless other lies that spew forth from politicians mouths?
If abbott had been asked, leading up to his takeover he would have said no. Anyone would.
The FACT!:banghead that politicians are lying scum does not change that the "unelected prime minister" garbage is just BS spin put out by your team in their effort to defeat the sworn enemy.
Some see it for what it is, some gulp it up.
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"The Unelected Prime Minister"
This makes me laugh.
Under the Westminster System we do not vote for a prime minister. We vote for a person to represent our electorate and the party that holds the most seats governs the country. The members of that party elect the party leader who is then the prime minister.
6 of the previous 26 Prime ministers of Australia took the position of prime minister without standing the previous election as part leader.
Considering The liberal party have the history of blocking supply to effect the removal of the then prime minister, i find it amusing that they want to push this spin against Gillard, but concerning that so many blindly accept and repeat the tripe as if it actually means something.
Is there no irony in Abbot, who challenged and won from the existing party leader, that position, condemning Gillard for doing the same?
Al,
the labor party didn't vote.
Gillard was asked repeatedly on several media outlets if she was going to oust Kevin. She told us all numerous times that she wasn't going to do that. I remember her saying so myself listening to her whiney voice on radio and tv where she stated, " there's more chance of me sailing solo around the world than me being prime minister" and also, " there's more chance of me lining up alongside Barry Hall than being prime minister!"
Gillard knifed Kevin '07 and he kindly stepped out of her way. It never went to a vote.
It's something the ALP do, when things are tough or they've stuffed up or they've "gone of the rails"...... they bring in a woman.
FACT!!!!!
How did Abbott become leader? lol
yes that went to a vote. I think he won by a solitary vote if I remember rightly.
But your leader Julia "I'll rule ya" Gillard, NEVER got voted by her party.
The Unions flexed some muscle and everyone kissed the ring of the union Don and stepped aside for the glowing flame haired, kath&kim voiced, charlatan that is Julia Eileen Gillard.
So to conclude. Abbott was voted in by his party but Gillard wasn't. FACT!!!
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On workchoices.
He stated that work choices is dead, buried and cremated.
Well I listened to that interview on 3AW and he then signed a contract with Neil on radio because they kept asking the same questions over and over.
Then he was asked specificaly by a caller about the rights of junior workers and how it's unfair the labour goverment changed the legistlation on how many hours minimum that they can work.
He then stated that there are many areas of legislation that can be considered or changed if they are unfair.
Then he went on to say that BUT on the issue of workchoices we ( the liberal party ) have considered the voice of the people in 2007 and we have heard it loud and clear.... Workchoices is dead.
The fact is that he apposed workchoices when the Howard goverment proposed it. Fact.
I think this fella is unfairly critisised.
you are completly wrong there Dan.
You said, "The economic crudentials of the labour party in the last few years are far superiour than anything the Liberals have ever dished up"
well what are their economic credentials?
Is it that you don't understand economics or you may be blinded by labor loyalism.
I stated that some of there ideas were ok but the implementation was ordinary.
The BER was a good idea when schools are left to work out what they need and how to use the money wisely. This we now know because most private schools have had success in building to their own needs.
But when your leader is allowed to dictate what government schools should have but don't need well that's where the problems arise.
You and I can build a 5 bedroom house for under 350000 but this government couldn't build a structure not much bigger than your lounge for under 500000. This portfolio led by your incompitent labor saviour and current unelected prime minister Julia Gillard.
The fact is that stimulus was a good idea but when people living overseas are getting their payment how can they spend it in this country and stimulate our economy.
I think you must acknowledge as labor do, the strength of our economy before labor took power and the billions of dollars in the black they had to spend.
The fact is Dan that the labor party at federal and state level try to do right but continualy stuff up time and time again. It's a pattern i've seen since I've been alive. My dad was a shop steward and a mad labor man until Paul Keating came along. I don't think he changed camps but I don't think he ever trusted labour again.
I ask you to show me one thing this government has done that they haven't stuffed up. Well if you can't think of one I will help you. They successfully were able to put up a sign on every school in the country announcing the BER. Well done Julia.
questionning my labour loyalty is a bit rich? please apologise??lol
your damm right the stimulus was a great idea as you have just said. Okay so people overseas shouldn't have received it i agree BUT it didnt stop you and others spending it in this country or the Jones next door for buying a new Plasma.
Ooh and just on that $900 i thought being such a clever lad you would know that these ex pats living elsewhere are spending their funds which would've helped boost that particular countries economy, which in turn can only be a good thing for the world economy including ours. :thumbsup
If you felt so strongly about the efforts of Labour govt to steer the country out of a possible recession please tell me why didnt you hand the $900 back. Ill tell you why you didnt because you loved every cent of it and gladly spent it wherever you felt. Its only now that every last cent is dried up you and others cry poor. Give me a spell mate. Very wealthy relatives of ours who began a very well known franchise business years ago were happy to advertise spend your $900 here" but now are saying get rid of Labour, they have done nothing right.
What have they done that havent stuffed up. how about
Unemployment??
Inflation??
Recession ooh but hang on we never had one.
how about what labour did for the automoticve industry which was hanging on by a thread or did you forget seeing all those company owners roll around the streets with their new BMW 4WD and VW Tiguan. stuffin hypocrites.
"i cant give a guarantee of every bit of work choices in this country"
Tony Abbot 2010
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Daniel you didn't quote him correctly.
If you read my posts I discussed exactly what he said on 3aw and why he said it and in what context. But you don't see this on the advert.
It's exactly the same thing the current labor minister said when interviewed on this very topic, again on 3aw.
You would be really pleased about the Cash for clunkers scheme that your girlfriend Julia announced recently.
Well well well. This is an exact copy if the Car Allowance Rebate System ( CARS ) that was introduced in the US. The Obama goverment introduced the scheme on July 1st 2009 and appropriated 1 billion dollars in the hope it would last a year. The funds ran out on July 30 2009. The Obama goverment gave 2 billion more dollars to the scheme and then scrapped it on August 24 th 2009 when all 3 billion dollars ran out.
It sounds to me like a waste of money. It was heavely critisized in the US as of no distinct benefit and a gross waste of taxpayers money. Alan Greenspan condemned the scheme also.
This is how good your Julia and your beloved ALP is. She can't come up with a decent policy so they copy a DUD from the USA.
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Daniel you didn't quote him correctly.
Tigra you never answered the question i have asked of you
Why didnt you hand back the $900 or any other stimulus provided by the company? Like i said at the time most people loved it and was quite happy to take take take but now the dust has settled and they have got what they wanted and its shoot him shoot her.
Tigra i couldnt care less where we get our ideas from as long as the end goal remains and our country prospers. You commented what a waste of money giving the cash to overseas travellers and i gave you a reason yet you decide to bring up the CARS scheme. If the best you can come up with is the fact Gillard "copied" a scheme from the USA then im sorry but your opinion has no legs. Lets just wait and see shall we before you say thats a failure. The US economy is in such dire straights at the moment that just about anything will fail over there.
For the record i dont particulary rate Gillard either but next to that person who arrived here by boat Abbott, who you cant wait to have as our PM there is no choice where do i sign.
“But let's, I mean, Work Choices, it's dead, it's buried, it's cremated now and forever. But obviously I can't give an absolute guarantee about every single aspect of workplace relations legislation"
Tony Abbott, 2010
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That's a better quote. :thumbsup
now I don't think anyone could promise that they wouldn't change any legislation. He's only being honest when asked a specific question.
In relation to the $900 dollars. Yes I used it and I would have been stupid to give it back. It's my money in the first place better with me then down the toilet within another failed scheme. I didn't buy a plasma tv with that money. I used it to pay some bills.
I'm not saying that all their ideas are bad. As I said in earlier posts it's more the implementation than the idea ( except pink batts I knew was a dud from the beginning & no I didn't get them ).
I think when you look at the mistakes you can't deny that they are below par in many areas.
Even the ALP have conceeded that mistakes have been made. So true to form they cut the main face ie. Rudd and stick a woman at the top to distract us from the mistakes. And we have to then listen to the spin.
You Dan are in denial. You sound alot like all the Wallace supporters on this site when the tigers were going nowhere in a hurry they all bagged you out for your critisism of him. They just couldn't see how bad he was and some of our duds. Well look closely at these last 3 years and check closely the performance and the wastage of taxpayer money. Some ideas are good but failure after failure to deliver. The ALP have conceeded their mistakes but you won't.
It's like all those posters that still think Thompson and Hislop will be Richmond champs one day. It's ridiculous.
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now i knew we will agree at some point about something mainly Hislop, Thomspon and the tanned one.
Yes i agree Labour party has made mistakes but they have done good as well. All parties make mistakes including the Liberals.
I will never vote for a party that cant give a 100% guarantee work choices would never re enter the work force again. That declaration is equivalent to a thing i use to whipe my a-rse every day when i take a dump.
Adding to that i dont like Abbott i think he is a effin snake of the highest order. A effin racist like his predecessor who couldnt land a job in the ICC. That was up there with the day he lost power. Seeing him lose that job brought one of the biggest smiles on my face.
Costello on the other hand was probably the best thing your party has produced in the last 30 years.
“But let's, I mean, Work Choices, it's dead, it's buried, it's cremated now and forever. But obviously I can't give an absolute guarantee about every single aspect of workplace relations legislation"
Tony Abbott, 2010
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See Johnny H bashing the stimulus package.
Is there one internationally renowned economist who agrees with the Liberal party line. Two of the more recent Nobel prize winners have praised the Keynesian stimulus packages, Stiglitz last week singled out Australia's as on of the best in the world.
Abbott, Johnny H and friends up to their usual tricks of spreading fear.
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See Johnny H bashing the stimulus package.
Is there one internationally renowned economist who agrees with the Liberal party line. Two of the more recent Nobel prize winners have praised the Keynesian stimulus packages, Stiglitz last week singled out Australia's as on of the best in the world.
Abbott, Johnny H and friends up to their usual tricks of spreading fear.
You just have to ask the question "what would you have done instead if you had been in office".
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See Johnny H bashing the stimulus package.
Is there one internationally renowned economist who agrees with the Liberal party line. Two of the more recent Nobel prize winners have praised the Keynesian stimulus packages, Stiglitz last week singled out Australia's as on of the best in the world.
Abbott, Johnny H and friends up to their usual tricks of spreading fear.
While a former leader and prime minister in Mal Fraser has said that the libs are not ready to govern the country.
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"The Unelected Prime Minister"
This makes me laugh.
Under the Westminster System we do not vote for a prime minister. We vote for a person to represent our electorate and the party that holds the most seats governs the country. The members of that party elect the party leader who is then the prime minister.
6 of the previous 26 Prime ministers of Australia took the position of prime minister without standing the previous election as part leader.
Considering The liberal party have the history of blocking supply to effect the removal of the then prime minister, i find it amusing that they want to push this spin against Gillard, but concerning that so many blindly accept and repeat the tripe as if it actually means something.
Is there no irony in Abbot, who challenged and won from the existing party leader, that position, condemning Gillard for doing the same?
The Libs have had 4 leaders in only the past 3 years. We didn't hear any cries of 'unelected leader' on each occasion.
Yep al it's amazing how many people don't understand the Westminster system. All we vote for is for a local candidate to the House of Reps based on preferential voting and 6 Senators per state (12 in total spread over two elections, 2 per territory) based on proportional voting (a quota system). The latter voting system is the reason why small parties and independents can win Senate seats. Once the voting is counted it's up to those in the Parliament to form a majority in the lower house to then be asked by the Governor General to form government. Each party decides who is their respectively leader; not the public. If we want to vote to determine the PM explicitly then the constitution will have to be changed. Good luck with that given Australia's history with referendums.
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Yep al it's amazing how many people don't understand the Westminster system. All we vote for is for a local candidate to the House of Reps based on preferential voting and 6 Senators per state (12 in total spread over two elections, 2 per territory) based on proportional voting (a quota system).
I think there is a serious case to make that the Westminster system needs to evolve.
1) I don't know what my local member stands for and in any case since they need to follow the party line (presumably set by the leader and senior ministers/advisers) it really doesn't matter.
2) The media focus on the leader's stance on every issue. You can blame the media, but they are a business and all it really shows is that the public interest is in what the leaders have to say above all else.
I think we should have a presidential system. The US system works far better than ours IMHO. For one thing the debate is less dichotomous and more nuanced as it is not all that uncommon to have Democrats of a conservative disposition and Republicans of a progressive one.
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See Johnny H bashing the stimulus package.
Is there one internationally renowned economist who agrees with the Liberal party line. Two of the more recent Nobel prize winners have praised the Keynesian stimulus packages, Stiglitz last week singled out Australia's as on of the best in the world.
Abbott, Johnny H and friends up to their usual tricks of spreading fear.
Standard Liberal party election tactics since 1945. They haven't changed tactics since "Reds under the beds". The majority of public are hopefully more sophisticated though these days.
I'm no economist but from what I remember Keynesian economics works fine in a low inflation or deflationary environment (GFC obviously was a severe case of the latter) as what you're doing in layman's terms is via stimulus packages you're borrowing more inflation to reduce unemployment. It fails though when you have high inflation and high unemployment such as was the case during the 1970s. As with most models as long as you understand the assumptions the model is based on and work within them then you're fine. It's when you get someone who thinks you can use a model carte blanche that things can go horribly wrong.
What also helps is our deregulated economy all thanks to Hawke/Keating. The Australian economy has been reborn since 1983 after the trainwreck left by Howard as treasurer. Thank goodness Costello had the reigns of the treasury when Howard was PM. The dumbest thing the Libs ever did was stick with Howard to the bitter end when he had run his race and losing Costello for good rather than changing leaders and bringing in new blood.
As for copying ideas from the US - the Libs get most of theirs from the US Republican party and the Conservative party in the UK. Liberal industrial relations ideology that resulted in Workchoices was initially promoted based on late 1990s/early 2000s unemployment levels being lower in America than Australia. The Libs quickly left out mentioning the USA as IR nirvana as soon as the American economy went sour under Bush and unemployment shot up over there.
Australia is in so much better shape than most developed countries it's not funny and our debt is one of lowest. People forget numbers are relative when we have a trillion dollar economy. IMO the ALP's problems have come from very poor campaigning failing to promote the overall success of the stimulus plan which the Libs opposed. I think Labor hoped for Gillard to ride in on the newbie honeymoon period and for Abbott to be his past usual loose cannon self and implode with foot in mouth statements. However, he's been stage managed well by the Liberal party machine under little pressure from Labor in the first two weeks of the campaign. Now that Labor has changed tact and gone more on the offensive attacking the details of Abbott's policies, little cracks have started to appear such as Coalition MPs revolting over his paid parental leave plan and his flip-flopping over the past couple of days. Interesting to see any change in the polls on Monday. This election is only close because both leaders are pretty uninspiring campaigners. IMO a sign of a lack of diversity in backgrounds and life experiences of modern pollies. Most come from the same Arts/Law uni politics conveyor belt :yawn.
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Yep al it's amazing how many people don't understand the Westminster system. All we vote for is for a local candidate to the House of Reps based on preferential voting and 6 Senators per state (12 in total spread over two elections, 2 per territory) based on proportional voting (a quota system).
I think there is a serious case to make that the Westminster system needs to evolve.
1) I don't know what my local member stands for and in any case since they need to follow the party line (presumably set by the leader and senior ministers/advisers) it really doesn't matter.
2) The media focus on the leader's stance on every issue. You can blame the media, but they are a business and all it really shows is that the public interest is in what the leaders have to say above all else.
I think we should have a presidential system. The US system works far better than ours IMHO. For one thing the debate is less dichotomous and more nuanced as it is not all that uncommon to have Democrats of a conservative disposition and Republicans of a progressive one.
After 8 years of GW :help I think I'll stick with our Westminster system ;D. I like the fact that executive power is split between PM and GG (in practice PM has more executive power than the constitution suggests), ministers are MPs rather than appointments and the PM and ministers are MPs. But that's just a personal opinion.
What I would do is have fixed 4-year elections and make all senate seats open each election rather than this half-half. 6-8 years without having to face the people is far too long. I'd also put a limit on the proportional system that you need to achieve at least 10% of the public vote to gain a quota. It's ridiculous that one person can get just 2% of the vote and yet gain a senate seat and abuse their balance of power holding the nation to ransom. I'm also a republican so I'd make the GG "president" but with the same role.
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The one thing we could take from the yanks is non compulsory voting. It would take out a large portion of the idiot factor
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The one thing we could take from the yanks is non compulsory voting. It would take out a large portion of the idiot factor
Sarah Palin? ;)
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If labor is so perfect then why did the power brokers at the ALP ask Rudd to step down so Julia could get the top job?
Rudd didn't think he was that bad, he told us so in his long winded "Im proud of" speech.
You all think the sun shines from the ALP behind.
As I've stated before you are all in denial.
The ALP have all agreed that they are useless....errr not all of them just Rudd.
I agree with some of the ideas but implementation is almost always wrong.
Just as the state Labour government in Victoria couldn't organise a bake sale without spending millions on an organising commitee for the bake sale. And then they would spend millions having the bake sale and then they will spend millions forming a commitee to see how they can clean up the mess of the bake sale and then they would spend millions cleaning up the mess of the bake sale. When critisised they will say "it was the bake sale we had to have!". Correct but don't spend Billions to do it.
If I had a choice between Rudd or Gillard Id choose Rudd.
If I had a choice between Abbott or Costello Id choose Costello.
If I have to choose between Labor or Liberal then I must look at the Performance history of both and Liberal wins every time.
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If labor is so perfect then why did the power brokers at the ALP ask Rudd to step down so Julia could get the top job?
Unfortunately, that is the question that Labor is struggling to answer and the one that might cost them this election. Gillard seems to be struggling to get her point across and the 'real Julia' spiel was just rubbish.
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Daniel you ask the same questions but don't listen to the answers.
I think some of the ideas that the ALP have had are good but it's the implementation that s questionable.
I will answer again for you.
1) the $900 stimulus was necessary. It helped stimulate spending. I took it and gladly paid some bills. But the MISTAKE was giving it to people overseas and apparently some dead people also.
2) B.E.R. ( Julias baby). Great idea but bad implementation. Millions wasted on what schools don't really need.
3) ETS. ( kevins Baby) this was Kevins deep conviction. So convinced of it's importance he decided to implement it in..... 2010.....um.....ah..mid 2011...um.. I mean 2013. Now julia thinks cash for clunkers is a good to implement for carbon reduction. The US brought it in to stimulate the motor industry. The amount of carbon reduction per dollar spent is extrodinarly high.
4) the insulation scheme (pink batts). Bad idea, stupid idea, no idea. Millions of dollars wasted, no accreditation, millions of dollars to fix, People lost businesses, people lost jobs, houses burning. People dead! Should be kicked out of government just because if this one stuff up!!!
5) super clinics. Promised 35 delivered 3 in 3 years at this rate they should be able to finish by 2022. Problem is the doctors don't like it.
6)Tech schools are a good Idea but only implementation is the problem.
So here is your answer again for you.
In conclusion this government like labor governments federal and state have a history of mistakes and money wastage. As bad as mykey is in Victoria 1.3 billion dollars wasted and counting. A hospital could have been built instead. But as bad as that is there is only one government has contributed to 4 deaths and for this alone should be ousted!!!!!!!
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1) the $900 stimulus was necessary. It helped stimulate spending.
Does it not worry you that a good % of the Liberal party disagree with that?
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1) the $900 stimulus was necessary. It helped stimulate spending.
Does it not worry you that a good % of the Liberal party disagree with that?
No it doesn't. It's what I believe that matters to me.
What really worries me is that people have died because of a dud government scheme and no-one is held accountable for it.
It worries me that the government can put up a new leader and think people will forget how many mistakes were made. And what worries me more than anything, if this forum is any indication with what the majority believe, we will have to put up with more mistakes and mis-management of tax payer money for 3 more years. :banghead
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1) the $900 stimulus was necessary. It helped stimulate spending.
Does it not worry you that a good % of the Liberal party disagree with that?
No it doesn't. It's what I believe that matters to me.
What really worries me is that people have died because of a dud government scheme and no-one is held accountable for it.
It worries me that the government can put up a new leader and think people will forget how many mistakes were made. And what worries me more than anything, if this forum is any indication with what the majority believe, we will have to put up with more mistakes and mis-management of tax payer money for 3 more years. :banghead
no you wont Labour will be out make no mistake about it but more than anything its because of how badly they have managed this campaign. They didnt stand a chance when they dumped Rudd. Abott and his work choices will head this country for the next term.
Just as a final note on the $900 and for the last time people overseas still get the money and spend it in the country they are in which directly assists the world economy.
People who have died well the $900 did go their estate which in turn may or may not go their beneficiaries,to spend on what they like in our economy.
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1) the $900 stimulus was necessary. It helped stimulate spending.
Does it not worry you that a good % of the Liberal party disagree with that?
No it doesn't. It's what I believe that matters to me.
What really worries me is that people have died because of a dud government scheme and no-one is held accountable for it.
It worries me that the government can put up a new leader and think people will forget how many mistakes were made. And what worries me more than anything, if this forum is any indication with what the majority believe, we will have to put up with more mistakes and mis-management of tax payer money for 3 more years. :banghead
no you wont Labour will be out make no mistake about it but more than anything its because of how badly they have managed this campaign. They didnt stand a chance when they dumped Rudd. Abott and his work choices will head this country for the next term.
Just as a final note on the $900 and for the last time people overseas still get the money and spend it in the country they are in which directly assists the world economy.
People who have died well the $900 did go their estate which in turn may or may not go their beneficiaries,to spend on what they like in our economy.
Daniel. I posted a response to your 5 time question and all you give me back is fluff.
There were 6 points I used to answer your question..... Give me something.
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i read your 6 with about as much interest as i read Abbotts declaration. Basically you say you agree but dont agree. You seem to me to be a swinging voter just going with whoever provides you with better financial options.
We go round and round here i have already mentioned about a dozen times about what the ALP has achieved since they began government.
The only major developed country in the world to avoid recession or would you have preferred many more people lose their jobs and homes.
Just on Unemplyment lets look at the figures shall we. We have one of the lowest unemployment rates in the world. The stimilus the Government outlayed played a big part in the numbers.
The abolishment of Work Choices. Howard that racist piece of s h i t can shove that act up his ring hole.
Just on the deaths. Unfortunate i agree which is why Garrett should've been sacked on the spot but out of curiosity have you been to Iraq lately or does that not count. The numbers fighting over there can and should've been avoided.
The biggest mistake Labour made and it will bring them undone in a few weeks is to try and suck up to voters by bringing in Gillard. You cant buy peoples votes just because a woman is now the PM.
Rudd would've had Abbott's measure in the end, i have no absolutely no doubt
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What really worries me is that people have died because of a dud government scheme and no-one is held accountable for it.
The people died because of poor work practices, not the scheme. The companies which put these people to work without proper training and OH&S are being held accountable.
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What really worries me is that people have died because of a dud government scheme and no-one is held accountable for it.
The people died because of poor work practices, not the scheme. The companies which put these people to work without proper training and OH&S are being held accountable.
that's true FF but the reality is that the GOVERNMENT rushed the scheme without the correct accreditation and training programs In place. Garrett knew it was going to be a problem, the legitimate companies which have been operating in the industry knew, all warned Rudd but he did nothing. Probably because he was overseas trying to convince the world that it was important to have a trading scheme. Problem is that his own country doesn't have one.
Fact is that 2.5 billion is wasted and 1 billion more to fix. Houses burnt down. Companies going bankrupt. 1 million homes at risk. People living in fear. 4 people dead.
This isn't a government I am willing to take a risk on twice.
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i read your 6 with about as much interest as i read Abbotts declaration. Basically you say you agree but dont agree. You seem to me to be a swinging voter just going with whoever provides you with better financial options.
We go round and round here i have already mentioned about a dozen times about what the ALP has achieved since they began government.
The only major developed country in the world to avoid recession or would you have preferred many more people lose their jobs and homes.
Just on Unemplyment lets look at the figures shall we. We have one of the lowest unemployment rates in the world. The stimilus the Government outlayed played a big part in the numbers.
The abolishment of Work Choices. Howard that racist piece of s h i t can shove that act up his ring hole.
Just on the deaths. Unfortunate i agree which is why Garrett should've been sacked on the spot but out of curiosity have you been to Iraq lately or does that not count. The numbers fighting over there can and should've been avoided.
The biggest mistake Labour made and it will bring them undone in a few weeks is to try and suck up to voters by bringing in Gillard. You cant buy peoples votes just because a woman is now the PM.
Rudd would've had Abbott's measure in the end, i have no absolutely no doubt
first of all if you think that Rudds stulimulus was the ONLY reason for this country not going into recession, then you are in denial.
This country is and was smack bang in the middle of a mining boom, fueled by the growth of India and China. To add to that the Howard government left a hefty sum of money to Rudds government on which to use. If the country isn't in a strong financial position then there's no doubt stimulus would have been less effective. Even Gillard has agreed with this.
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first of all if you think that Rudds stulimulus was the ONLY reason for this country not going into recession, then you are in denial.
This country is and was smack bang in the middle of a mining boom, fueled by the growth of India and China. To add to that the Howard government left a hefty sum of money to Rudds government on which to use. If the country isn't in a strong financial position then there's no doubt stimulus would have been less effective. Even Gillard has agreed with this.
The mining stocks and commodity prices still took a massive hit during the GFC. BHP had a drop of 62% in annual profits during the 2008-9 financial year.
(http://asx.netquote.com.au/chart.aspx?provider=CSV&Code=RIO&Main=Extend.MainArea&Type=1&Scale=0&Span=YEAR10&Skin=GreenWhite&size=265*210&Extra=C1B3&XFormat=yy&XCycle=Year&Cycle=Month&His=0&SV=0&BMargin=10) (http://asx.netquote.com.au/chart.aspx?provider=CSV&Code=BHP&Main=Extend.MainArea&Type=1&Scale=0&Span=YEAR10&Skin=GreenWhite&size=265*210&Extra=C1B3&XFormat=yy&XCycle=Year&Cycle=Month&His=0&SV=0&BMargin=10)
No doubt the mining boom thanks to China has underpinned our economy for a decade or more but without the surplus measures Australia would've been in recession which would've deeply hurt confidence, closed down businesses, cost far more jobs (200k at least IIRC), cost the economy and hence hit Government revenues even further. With no stimulus the Government of either persuasion would've had to go into debt anyway as the bottom fell out of its revenues and worse still with a lingering deep recession on its hands. Making "orthodox" spending cuts in such a deflationary scenario would not have helped as was found out in the 1930s when Australia was one of the worst affected countries by the great depression. The State had to step in with the free market in free-fall. Remember other measures such as securing bank deposits also provided security and stability to the Australian banks and the economy in general. The fact we never went into recession and never reached even the Government and Treasury's own predicted unemployment levels during the GFC is a massive tick for the Government's surplus measures. The Libs opposed the stimulus so their economic credibility has been severely weakened. Since the election has switched focussed back to the economy during the past week and with Abbott avoiding any debate on the economy the polls have swung back to the ALP.
Of course a strong economy helps when a crisis hits. The economic reforms since 1983 have opened up the Australian economy and given it flexibility. We avoided the Asian tiger crisis in the late 1990s as well remember. I'm sure you'll give Howard/Costello full credit for that and none to Hawke/Keating even though Howard in 1996 publicly admitted he inherited a strong economy :whistle.
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Crank up the sound.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCVL9vTM_yU&feature=player_embedded
Joe Hockey doing the twist cracked me up.
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Crank up the sound.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCVL9vTM_yU&feature=player_embedded
Joe Hockey doing the twist cracked me up.
some of your best work FF. Classic
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Brilliant :lol
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Channel Nine employ Mark Latham to work on 60 Minutes
But they bag the crap out of him on their news for turning up to do his job interviewing Abbott
They probably employed him knowing he'd be an embarrassment for Labor and make more mileage for the Libs
This is the dirtiest campaign ever :(
Mark Latham is a joke but why employ him?
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Channel Nine employ Mark Latham to work on 60 Minutes
But they bag the crap out of him on their news for turning up to do his job interviewing Abbott
They probably employed him knowing he'd be an embarrassment for Labor and make more mileage for the Libs
This is the dirtiest campaign ever :(
Mark Latham is a joke but why employ him?
spot on was thinking the same thing re: Latham
Was at a function today and from Jeff Kennett "This is the worst campaign, state or federal i have ever seen in my whole political life"
on a side note gee its good seeing Joe Hockey go up against Swan. He would have to be Liberals weakest link wouldnt he.?
he couldnt land a root in a brothel let alone win a public debate.
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Channel Nine employ Mark Latham to work on 60 Minutes
But they bag the crap out of him on their news for turning up to do his job interviewing Abbott
They probably employed him knowing he'd be an embarrassment for Labor and make more mileage for the Libs
This is the dirtiest campaign ever :(
Mark Latham is a joke but why employ him?
spot on was thinking the same thing re: Latham
Was at a function today and from Jeff Kennett "This is the worst campaign, state or federal i have ever seen in my whole political life"
on a side note gee its good seeing Joe Hockey go up against Swan. He would have to be Liberals weakest link wouldnt he.?
he couldnt land a root in a brothel let alone win a public debate.
first of all boys and girls "crazy" mark Latham was elected by the labor party as their leader. :lol
secondly your favourite charlatan, the bipolar schizophrenic, "I'm not me and now I am me" Julia Gillard was one of his most loyal supporters.
Thirdly this political campaign is the worst because of the complete spin and bulldust and lies coming from the labor party and not enough attack coming from the liberals.
Laslty most political analysts gave the debate to Joe slightly ahead of Swan. The FACT is that Wayne Swan has presided over the greatest amount of waste in political history. But apparently it was ONLY Kevin Rudds fault.
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secondly your favourite charlatan, the bipolar schizophrenic, "I'm not me and now I am me" Julia Gillard was one of his most loyal supporters.
Poor effort Mr Tigra using mental illness to try and make a smart alec point >:(
And BTW even if you were trying to be "funny" it wasn't because mental illness aint funny
Thirdly this political campaign is the worst because of the complete spin and bulldust and lies coming from the labor party and not enough attack coming from the liberals.
And vice versa - the spin's becoming thick and fast from both sides. Take your biased Liberal glasses off for one minute and you will see that :thumbsup
And finally what do we all make of the polls in the last few days. A Labor surge is how's it's being reported :rollin :rollin
Said it before and I will say it again the polls mean nothing, the only thing that counts is next Saturday and then it will be over thank goodness
PS: Can anyone tell me who is the leader of the National Party is? Reason I ask is if the Opposistion gets elected next weekend the Leader of the Nationals becomes our Deputy PM it would be nice to know the persons name :help :rollin :rollin
Actually that's another interesting point that gets lost in the federal political debate in this country. That is under the current numbers (and it's been this way for decades now) the Libs cannot win in their own righ they need their coalition deal with the Nats to win ... ;D
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secondly your favourite charlatan, the bipolar schizophrenic, "I'm not me and now I am me" Julia Gillard was one of his most loyal supporters.
Poor effort Mr Tigra using mental illness to try and make a smart alec point >:(
And BTW even if you were trying to be "funny" it wasn't because mental illness aint funny
Thirdly this political campaign is the worst because of the complete spin and bulldust and lies coming from the labor party and not enough attack coming from the liberals.
And vice versa - the spin's becoming thick and fast from both sides. Take your biased Liberal glasses off for one minute and you will see that :thumbsup
And finally what do we all make of the polls in the last few days. A Labor surge is how's it's being reported :rollin :rollin
Said it before and I will say it again the polls mean nothing, the only thing that counts is next Saturday and then it will be over thank goodness
PS: Can anyone tell me who is the leader of the National Party is? Reason I ask is if the Opposistion gets elected next weekend the Leader of the Nationals becomes our Deputy PM it would be nice to know the persons name :help :rollin :rollin
Actually that's another interesting point that gets lost in the federal political debate in this country. That is under the current numbers (and it's been this way for decades now) the Libs cannot win in their own righ they need their coalition deal with the Nats to win ... ;D
the Nationals leader is Warren Truss.
I wasn't trying to be funny WP. I had a family member with Bipolar disorder and now is dead. Been through hell and back in mental hospitals. I was making a point about Julia Gillards split personality deception.
The fact is that she would have us believe that she wasn't being herself and then being herself. FACT is that she is a lawyer and she is a master at deception. Laughing before answering every question she is asked.
Any coincidence that the real Julia appeared when a former Tony Blair publicist came down from England to advise the old Julia to bring the new Julia out for all to see.
Maybe the old Julia can explain to the new Julia where 8 billion of tax payer money has gone in the Building the education revolution.
Now she wants to spend 45 billion of our money on a new broadband network. Gee I don't know if I can trust a government to implement a such a massive project when they stuffed up insulation, BER, ETS, Grocery watch, petrol watch etc. etc... But apparenly that was ONLY Kevin Rudds fault.
I'm not one eyed liberal. I just can't understand how a government can stuff up time and time again, sack the elected prime minister and expect us all to beleive that it was just a few mistakes and the "lost their way".
I bet not one of you on this sight knows anything about this phoney Julia Gillard. Does anyone know that she is a senior member of the discrimminatory group "Emily's list".
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Does anyone know that she is a senior member of the discrimminatory group "Emily's list".
How about the Federal Women's Committee, or is it all black hats and white hats in your political world?
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Does anyone know that she is a senior member of the discrimminatory group "Emily's list".
How about the Federal Women's Committee, or is it all black hats and white hats in your political world?
do some research FF. The FWC are just a support group compared to a factional machine hellbent on getting woman 50% of the action in the ALP by introducing and forcing affirmative action.
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You do some research.
Emily's List support Labor female candidates and are separate from the Labor Party.
The Federal Women's Committee support Liberal female candidates and are part of the Liberal Party.
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You do some research.
Emily's List support Labor female candidates and are separate from the Labor Party.
The Federal Women's Committee support Liberal female candidates and are part of the Liberal Party.
It's clear you haven't done much research.
read the Emily list constitution and labor party constitution.
It's fact is that there is a 40/40/20 policy in black and white.
The FWC is like I said before, just a support group for women in politics NOT a heavyweight political faction with policy ingrained in ALP constitution big difference.
If you don't beleive me FF why don't you ask all the good men from the ALP whom have tried to garner support in pre selection but have been overlooked for a female due to this ALP constitutionally enforced affirmative action model.
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I don't have to read the Emily's List constitution. It's irrelevant because they are not a part of the ALP so are not a political faction as you claim. It's also beside the point.
I have no doubt they are a pressure group, as are endless other groups and organizations which push their barrows to political parties.
They do the same as the FWC. The differences are EL has an ALP quota to work to and the FWC is actually part of the political party it promotes women candidates in.
Bad mouth EL if you must but then to not do the same for the FWC is hardly balanced. Which is my point.
Personally, I've got no idea why you'd have a go at either.
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I don't have to read the Emily's List constitution. It's irrelevant because they are not a part of the ALP so are not a political faction as you claim. It's also beside the point.
I have no doubt they are a pressure group, as are endless other groups and organizations which push their barrows to political parties.
They do the same as the FWC. The differences are EL has an ALP quota to work to and the FWC is actually part of the political party it promotes women candidates in.
Bad mouth EL if you must but then to not do the same for the FWC is hardly balanced. Which is my point.
Personally, I've got no idea why you'd have a go at either.
FF,
there is a political agenda to the Emilys list. It's in their constitution and they are powerful enough to change ALP constitution. FACT; They ARE a major political faction of the ALP.
The FWC is and only is a support network for women in the liberal party BIG difference there.
Factions are the bane of the ALP. Never able to work in complete harmony or unity with each faction determined to push their own intrest.
This is an organisation that I cannot support.
Mar 3:25 "If a house is divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand.
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FACT; They ARE a major political faction of the ALP.
Rubbish.
EL is non-factional, not involved in ALP pre-selections and only offers support to women when they have formal party endorsement.
You are repeating Tony Abbott's political rhetoric, not fact.
Mar 3:25 "If a house is divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand.
Quoting from the bible has as much influence on me as blatant propaganda.
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the Nationals leader is Warren Truss.
Thanks for answering that one because I honestly had no idea
Where's he been
I wasn't trying to be funny WP. I had a family member with Bipolar disorder and now is dead. Been through hell and back in mental hospitals. I was making a point about Julia Gillards split personality deception.
Fair enough, like you I've had family members with mental illness but personally I don't like people using mental illness in what came across as flippant way
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the Nationals leader is Warren Truss.
Thanks for answering that one because I honestly had no idea
Where's he been
I wasn't trying to be funny WP. I had a family member with Bipolar disorder and now is dead. Been through hell and back in mental hospitals. I was making a point about Julia Gillards split personality deception.
Fair enough, like you I've had family members with mental illness but personally I don't like people using mental illness in what came across as flippant way
Fair enough WP, sorry if I offended you or anyone else. It was unintended.
On Warren Truss, who knows where he is. But I have heard alot from Barnaby Joyce in this campain. He is Nationals senate leader.
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On Warren Truss, who knows where he is. But I have heard alot from Barnaby Joyce in this campain. He is Nationals senate leader.
Well this should make you happy Mr Tigra if this election was down to a vote Tony or a vote for Barnaby I'd vote for Tony 50 times plus ;D
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Poor ol' Barnaby makes Abbott look like he has a PhD in Economics.
Tony Abbott is going to walk on water and take personal responsibility to stop the boats apparently lol :wallywink.
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I reckon betting agencies might be a better poll as an indicator
Centrebet odds at the moment
ALP $1.26
Coalition $3.80
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One thing I don't understand is why knife someone in the back only to then re-spawn him quicker than JC with a bottle of Manna like some Messiah that will rescue the Labor cause?
This really has me perplexed and clearly shows the current government has absolutely no idea on how to run a political campaign let alone the country. I guess it just goes to show how desperate Rudd was to get that overseas posting his ego so desperately craves.
The stimulus was a joke. The country had already shaken off the major affects of the GFC prior to any of the major stimulus packages such as the BER coming into effect. But hey....We are moving forward.... :chuck
Answer this question....Would you employ someone who in an interview said "look, let's not dwell on what I have done in the past...I'm moving forward now, so the past 3 years of proven mismanagement detailed in my resume are totally irrelevant because....I AM MOVING FORWARD!"
Thank you for your time Julia, we will be in touch. :lol
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One thing I don't understand is why knife someone in the back only to then re-spawn him quicker than JC with a bottle of Manna like some Messiah that will rescue the Labor cause?
This really has me perplexed and clearly shows the current government has absolutely no idea on how to run a political campaign let alone the country. I guess it just goes to show how desperate Rudd was to get that overseas posting his ego so desperately craves.
Agree tiga. It is a problem for sure. This has been the most dull campaign in living memory. It is essentially between two soundbite chasing boofheads. Both Rudd and Turnbull are more capable than those who replaced them.
The stimulus was a joke. The country had already shaken off the major affects of the GFC prior to any of the major stimulus packages such as the BER coming into effect. But hey....We are moving forward.... :chuck
C'mon tiga... that is very much out of step with the best economic minds in this country and the rest of the developed world. It was a well-timed, and well-designed package and hasn't really been a big election issue because it would be the Libs against the world.
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the marginals in Qu and WA will tell the story. Thats why Abbott has a chance.
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the marginals in Qu and WA will tell the story. Thats why Abbott has a chance.
Thats true Ramps.
he is not without a shot at this.
the miners have all jumped ship and want the Libs in hence the donations they are throwing at the Liberal campaign compared to Labour
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libs also have a chance of winning back 2 seats they lost in 07 in tasmania
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One thing I don't understand is why knife someone in the back only to then re-spawn him quicker than JC with a bottle of Manna like some Messiah that will rescue the Labor cause?
This really has me perplexed and clearly shows the current government has absolutely no idea on how to run a political campaign let alone the country. I guess it just goes to show how desperate Rudd was to get that overseas posting his ego so desperately craves.
Agree tiga. It is a problem for sure. This has been the most dull campaign in living memory. It is essentially between two soundbite chasing boofheads. Both Rudd and Turnbull are more capable than those who replaced them.
The stimulus was a joke. The country had already shaken off the major affects of the GFC prior to any of the major stimulus packages such as the BER coming into effect. But hey....We are moving forward.... :chuck
C'mon tiga... that is very much out of step with the best economic minds in this country and the rest of the developed world. It was a well-timed, and well-designed package and hasn't really been a big election issue because it would be the Libs against the world.
Jake, I'm not saying the stimulus packages had no effect, what I am saying is that IMO stimulus should not even be in the top 5 reasons as to why we recovered so quickly. Mining, China and a solid and regulated banking industry are at the top of my list yet the government hangs onto the stimulus like a "warm wubby" that they cuddle into at night keeping them safe from all that monsters hiding in the closet.
Now moving onto another stimulus announcement, something I have a bit more experience in...the NBN. If this goes ahead it will be the biggest white elephant waste of money known to Man. I am hoping that the Libs get in just to stop this crazy plan. 46 billion dollars spent on us just so we can bittorrent our little bums off. Lets face it...I'd prefer to see 46 billion going to health (thousands of extra beds) or transport.
I don't think government has heard of the word "bottleneck". 70% of current internet traffic leaves this country. Most web resources such as websites, file hosters etc.. are throttled to 2mpbs per connection on average. 30% of current internet connections are "Wireless" and growing rapidly. People want more mobility not wall speed.
So a 100mbps connection is essentially useless unless you are a hospital or a corporate company requiring point to point high speed connections for data transfer which most already have, but for the average Joe, 100mbps speeds will never be realised or needed. As far as I am aware, the government hasn't even conducted any feasibility studies on this project. In order for this program to be even slightly viable, uptake would need to be in excess of 70%. Good luck with that. The areas where they have already run it out (in marginal seats mind you) hardly anyone is taking it up based purely on the costs involved.
Oh btw, where is the 46 billion coming from? It will obviously be borrowed money and if this sucker gets run out and uptake is less than 60% who is going to foot the bill?? Yep you guessed it...Us.
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One thing I don't understand is why knife someone in the back only to then re-spawn him quicker than JC with a bottle of Manna like some Messiah that will rescue the Labor cause?
This really has me perplexed and clearly shows the current government has absolutely no idea on how to run a political campaign let alone the country. I guess it just goes to show how desperate Rudd was to get that overseas posting his ego so desperately craves.
Agree tiga. It is a problem for sure. This has been the most dull campaign in living memory. It is essentially between two soundbite chasing boofheads. Both Rudd and Turnbull are more capable than those who replaced them.
The stimulus was a joke. The country had already shaken off the major affects of the GFC prior to any of the major stimulus packages such as the BER coming into effect. But hey....We are moving forward.... :chuck
C'mon tiga... that is very much out of step with the best economic minds in this country and the rest of the developed world. It was a well-timed, and well-designed package and hasn't really been a big election issue because it would be the Libs against the world.
Jake, I'm not saying the stimulus packages had no effect, what I am saying is that IMO stimulus should not even be in the top 5 reasons as to why we recovered so quickly. Mining, China and a solid and regulated banking industry are at the top of my list yet the government hangs onto the stimulus like a "warm wubby" that they cuddle into at night keeping them safe from all that monsters hiding in the closet.
Now moving onto another stimulus announcement, something I have a bit more experience in...the NBN. If this goes ahead it will be the biggest white elephant waste of money known to Man. I am hoping that the Libs get in just to stop this crazy plan. 46 billion dollars spent on us just so we can bittorrent our little bums off. Lets face it...I'd prefer to see 46 billion going to health (thousands of extra beds) or transport.
I don't think government has heard of the word "bottleneck". 70% of current internet traffic leaves this country. Most web resources such as websites, file hosters etc.. are throttled to 2mpbs per connection on average. 30% of current internet connections are "Wireless" and growing rapidly. People want more mobility not wall speed.
So a 100mbps connection is essentially useless unless you are a hospital or a corporate company requiring point to point high speed connections for data transfer which most already have, but for the average Joe, 100mbps speeds will never be realised or needed. As far as I am aware, the government hasn't even conducted any feasibility studies on this project. In order for this program to be even slightly viable, uptake would need to be in excess of 70%. Good luck with that. The areas where they have already run it out (in marginal seats mind you) hardly anyone is taking it up based purely on the costs involved.
Oh btw, where is the 46 billion coming from? It will obviously be borrowed money and if this sucker gets run out and uptake is less than 60% who is going to foot the bill?? Yep you guessed it...Us.
I agree totally. The NBN is the most scary policy I've ever heard of especially due to the gross mismanagement of taxpayer money already realized.
Insulation scheme. people dead, houses burnt. Failure. 2 billion wasted 1 billion to fix. Scrapped
Grocery watch. Failure. Millions wasted. Scrapped.
Petrol watch. Failure, millions wasted. Scrapped.
BER. Billions wasted. biggest mistake is letting the Victorian state government to implement the program in Victoria. They couldn't organise a mcdonald birthday party without wasting billions of dollars. More of the rorts will be manifested if the coalition are in power as they have promised a royal commission.
..... And lastly. NBN. I can't trust a government that has had so many mistakes and so much waste. They had "lost their way" so sack the primeminister as if it was ONLY his fault. What rubbish!!!
This 43 billion dollar scheme may sound great to some but by going on current form and history, by the time the scheme is finished, this labour government would probably wasted twice that and be finished in 2021. By then, the NBN will be obsolete.
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The Libs $6b broadband policy will obsolete before it's even implemented. 12mbps is really going to set the country up for the next 20-30 years. Like the "640k ought to be enough for anybody" comment in the early 80s :wallywink. Gotta loves the Libs when it comes to infrastructure and forward planning. Almost 3 decades in power in Victoria (1955-82) and they did sweet stuff all except close lines and leave things to rot when it came to Melbourne's public transport system as the city grew outwards post-WII and now we are paying for that lack of vision. Even just replacing all the old wooden sleepers with concrete ones is now a 3 year project :P.
Anyway thank goodness the Federal campaigning is over = no more swamping us with annoying and uninspiring political ads. Gawd help us if the Greens end up with the balance of power :help. The result all depends on NSW and Qld marginals as Ramps said.
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I just hope its a hung Parliment - I'll even supply the rope.
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The Libs $6b broadband policy will obsolete before it's even implemented. 12mbps is really going to set the country up for the next 20-30 years. Like the "640k ought to be enough for anybody" comment in the early 80s :wallywink. Gotta loves the Libs when it comes to infrastructure and forward planning. Almost 3 decades in power in Victoria (1955-82) and they did sweet stuff all except close lines and leave things to rot when it came to Melbourne's public transport system as the city grew outwards post-WII and now we are paying for that lack of vision. Even just replacing all the old wooden sleepers with concrete ones is now a 3 year project :P.
Anyway thank goodness the Federal campaigning is over = no more swamping us with annoying and uninspiring political ads. Gawd help us if the Greens end up with the balance of power :help. The result all depends on NSW and Qld marginals as Ramps said.
poor form MT. You're normally well informed but you obviously haven't read the liberals broadband policy. The Money they have proposed is made up mostly of grants to be given to industry that want to invest in better and faster technology. It's allowing the industry to grow with financial incentives.
What the NBN WILL be is a great big expensive white elephant that will be out of date when finally finished let's hope noone dies as a result of it's implementation.
And let's not get started with Vic government. We ALL remember when the Cain government made us the laughing stock of the nation. Gee even Tassie was laughing at us when we went from a tripple A rating to a negative A. Then Joan Kirner came to save the day (look familiar) problem was they just laughed louder. It took Jeff Kennett and the Liberal party to fix the mess and to repair Victoria's reputation back to top state in Australia.
It's no wonder the labor is struggling in NSW and Queensland due to the waning popularity and mess that both state governments have left them in. Both ALP and both led by women! Suprise suprise.
Fact is MT I wouldn't trust any Labor government to run a local bingo game at my granny's senior citizens hall, their history speaks for themselves.
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Down to the wire this is. Sorry i had to say its the Libs by a nose IMO.
Maxine smashed in Bennelong. What an idiot!!
Still though at least i got to see the day Howard became what the 2nd person in history to lose that seat.
Still remember vision of the racist prick sulking with his pig of a mrs.
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Most likely a hung parliament. No big policy commitment, no investment in infrastructure, effectively a Lib win.
I got to say as someone who works designing wireless chips that if the NBN doesn't get traction with the electorate for the reasons that tiga and Mr Tigra say, then it really shows there is a fundamental lack of understanding of the technology. "People want more mobility not wall speed." That may be so, but the fundamental physical capacity of wireless channels means you need more smaller wireless networks and that 3G/4G cellular is not the answer. The solution is wireless hotspots on a very high-bandwidth fixed network (take the surprisingly higher than expected sales of the WiFi iPad over the WiFi + 3G option as evidence that cellular is overkill anyway).
I happen to think Quigley is an honourable guy. He isn't in it for the money, apparently giving away most of his salary to charity. I couldn't agree more with his article in the Australian.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/australian-it/government/quigley-defends-nbn/story-fn4htb9o-1225907166756
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The Libs $6b broadband policy will obsolete before it's even implemented. 12mbps is really going to set the country up for the next 20-30 years. Like the "640k ought to be enough for anybody" comment in the early 80s :wallywink. Gotta loves the Libs when it comes to infrastructure and forward planning. Almost 3 decades in power in Victoria (1955-82) and they did sweet stuff all except close lines and leave things to rot when it came to Melbourne's public transport system as the city grew outwards post-WII and now we are paying for that lack of vision. Even just replacing all the old wooden sleepers with concrete ones is now a 3 year project :P.
Anyway thank goodness the Federal campaigning is over = no more swamping us with annoying and uninspiring political ads. Gawd help us if the Greens end up with the balance of power :help. The result all depends on NSW and Qld marginals as Ramps said.
poor form MT. You're normally well informed but you obviously haven't read the liberals broadband policy. The Money they have proposed is made up mostly of grants to be given to industry that want to invest in better and faster technology. It's allowing the industry to grow with financial incentives.
LOL @ "want". That's worked well in the past with ultilites hasn't it. Obviously an iron clad guarantee of moving Australia into the 21st century ::).
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/industry-sectors/coalition-plan-to-leave-us-in-backwater/story-e6frg9hx-1225903658119
And let's not get started with Vic government. We ALL remember when the Cain government made us the laughing stock of the nation. Gee even Tassie was laughing at us when we went from a tripple A rating to a negative A. Then Joan Kirner came to save the day (look familiar) problem was they just laughed louder. It took Jeff Kennett and the Liberal party to fix the mess and to repair Victoria's reputation back to top state in Australia.
It's no wonder the labor is struggling in NSW and Queensland due to the waning popularity and mess that both state governments have left them in. Both ALP and both led by women! Suprise suprise.
Fact is MT I wouldn't trust any Labor government to run a local bingo game at my granny's senior citizens hall, their history speaks for themselves.
I can play that game too. Both parties have had bad past governments. The disaster of the Fraser-Howard Liberal government driving the country into the ground in 1982 - high unemployment, high inflation, high interest rates,... every key economic fundamental was needing CPR. You can thank the Hawke-Keating's reforms for opening up and modernising the economy.
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Most likely a hung parliament. No big policy commitment, no investment in infrastructure, effectively a Lib win.
Yep both major parties look like they won't get to 76 seats needed to form government outright. A sign the public doesn't rate either side. The result won't be known till for at least a few days as they need count postal votes in a number of 50/50 seats.
One thing is certain and that's the Greens will hold the balance in power in the Senate no matter who wins and their seat in the House of Reps could end up deciding who wins Government.
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How are they going to work with the independents
The independents can't even stand each other after watching Tony Windsor and Barnaby Joyce tonight lol
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Most likely a hung parliament. No big policy commitment, no investment in infrastructure, effectively a Lib win.
Yep both major parties look like they won't get to 76 seats needed to form government outright. A sign the public doesn't rate either side. The result won't be known till for at least a few days as they need count postal votes in a number of 50/50 seats.
One thing is certain and that's the Greens will hold the balance in power in the Senate no matter who wins and their seat in the House of Reps could end up deciding who wins Government.
Isn't it amazing the parallel between this and the UK election?
There the Lib Dems chose to support the Tories because 1) there was a protest vote against the government. 2) It was a more stable arrangement given any arrangement with Labour would have required a heap of other minor parties like Sinn Fein coming on board.
Will be interesting whether the Greens choose the Liberals for similar reasons, especially given that the independents are mostly notionally conservative
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So who ends up PM ???
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So who ends up PM ???
Whoever can form a government with the independents I'm guessing!
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How are they going to work with the independents
The independents can't even stand each other after watching Tony Windsor and Barnaby Joyce tonight lol
that Joyce has got a face i want to smash.
a stuffwit of the highest order.
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Isn't it amazing the parallel between this and the UK election?
There the Lib Dems chose to support the Tories because 1) there was a protest vote against the government. 2) It was a more stable arrangement given any arrangement with Labour would have required a heap of other minor parties like Sinn Fein coming on board.
Will be interesting whether the Greens choose the Liberals for similar reasons, especially given that the independents are mostly notionally conservative
Could go either way. In the 1999 Victorian state election the two conservative independents and ex-Labor independent all sided with Bracks so yep Jake it's quite possible for independents to side with the party which is not their side of politics.
According to the ABC, the Coalition may end up with 73 seats, Labor 72, 4 independents and 1 Green. You would guess the Green would side with Labor so both parties would need to find the support of 3 of the 4 independents. That could change depending on pre-polling and postal votes still left to count. Both sides have practically ended up with 50% of the nationwide vote.
Gillard in her speech congratulated the independents by name for winning their seats and the Liberal MPs on the tv are reminding the independents of their conservative roots so the sucking up to the independents has already begun.
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Either way its a terrible result for Australia in fragile economic times to have several years of a legislative process where nothing can happen swiftly because everything needs to be run by several independents and the Greens.
One of the reasons China did so better than expected in the GFC is that they have absolutely no roadblocks in their executive process. Now whilst there isn't too much to envy about their system, what we are facing is quite dangerous
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I agree the Chinese have no problem with execution at all
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Both sides have practically ended up with 50% of the nationwide vote.
How true I think it shows that neither party has been given a mandate govern depsite what Tony said in his speech last night.
Gillard in her speech congratulated the independents by name for winning their seats and the Liberal MPs on the tv are reminding the independents of their conservative roots so the sucking up to the independents has already begun.
I thought the speeches showed a clear difference in the 2 leaders, one acknowledging in an albeit shrewd way the need to get some deal done with the independants; the other showing a form of disrepsect for the democracy and constitution of this country and to those who actually currently hold all the aces in the pack (read the independants)
I hate to break it to Tony but as it stands right at this minute he isn't Prime Minister, the Coalition isn't in power so to say the current government has lost its "legitamacy" is a bit rich....
Bu hey at least he had time last might to remind me again that he'd stop the boats ... well all but 3 a year ;D
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Bu hey at least he had time last might to remind me again that he'd stop the boats ... well all but 3 a year ;D
When he's sucking up to Bob Brown, I don't think he'll be telling him they'll be turning the boats around lol
How many policy reversals are we going to get whoever gets in government?
He might want to rethink what he thinks on climate change as well :rollin
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PS: Message to Queenslanders, Anna Bligh is state, this election was federal
Amusing the Coalition campaigned with Anna Bligh posters all over the place lol
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PS: Message to Queenslanders, Anna Bligh is state, this election was federal
Amusing the Coalition campaigned with Anna Bligh posters all over the place lol
Realistically, I think Rudd was probably a bigger issue than Bligh. We are a very parochial bunch. And judged on Gillard's performance thus far its probably not a bad issue to have. The state opposition up here are totally incompetent though and I'd be surprised if Bligh had a great effect on the vote.
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This result proves to all that unless your name is Bob Hawke, Labor aren't any good at running government longer than 3 years! Their history speaks loud and clear.
After a landslide victory in 2007 when we all were hopeful that Rudd could make a real difference he was shafted by his own party revealing to all that Labor can't be trusted to govern with a mandate from the Australian public. It shows that Labor are a fractured, unstable organisation with too many hidden agendas and too many heads trying to drive a ship. Problem is that with a constitution that has a 40/40/20 rule that is discrimminatory and is un Australian, the party members are unable to work together or trust one another. Therefore the ship will always sink
A great example of this was Maxine McKew who was a strong supporter of Kevin '07. In her own words she was "factionless" and was therefore NOT supported by Julia's growing faction The Emily's list. Not even a train line could save her in the end.
In conclusion
Luke 11:17
Geez knew their thoughts and said to them: "Any kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and a house divided against itself will fall.
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PS: Message to Queenslanders, Anna Bligh is state, this election was federal
Amusing the Coalition campaigned with Anna Bligh posters all over the place lol
Realistically, I think Rudd was probably a bigger issue than Bligh. We are a very parochial bunch. And judged on Gillard's performance thus far its probably not a bad issue to have. The state opposition up here are totally incompetent though and I'd be surprised if Bligh had a great effect on the vote.
When's the next state election? Be a very interesting one.
Why are they on the nose? Is it the hospitals still?
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When's the next state election? Be a very interesting one.
Why are they on the nose? Is it the hospitals still?
Hospitals and selling off public assets (QR) thus alienating Labor heartland.
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When's the next state election? Be a very interesting one.
Why are they on the nose? Is it the hospitals still?
Hospitals and selling off public assets (QR) thus alienating Labor heartland.
Rudd wanted to take over the hospitals at a federal level. Maybe would have been a good thing not just for Queensland. Been an issue for so long everywhere.
Yep, I can understand the angst in selling QR. Coal miners will be happy but as with anything, they don't put much back into improving infrastructure
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This result proves to all that unless your name is Bob Hawke, Labor aren't any good at running government longer than 3 years! Their history speaks loud and clear.
:nope
Nope what this result (or NON RESULT) proves is whether you want to admit it or not is that 50% of this country want Gillard over Abbott, while the other 50% want Abbott over Gillard
That's all that yesterday proved IMHO
Wouldn't be hystercial if we have to do it all again because no-one can get a deal done :rollin :rollin
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Good news - looks like the independents are behind the NBN
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/independents-seem-to-favour-nbn-20100822-13an7.html
What would be really funny is if the Greens and these independents give the government another term and are big on public infrastructure, social reform, the republic (as Oakeshott is), big Australia etc it could end up worse for the Libs than if Labor had won outright :rollin
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Good news - looks like the independents are behind the NBN
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/independents-seem-to-favour-nbn-20100822-13an7.html
What would be really funny is if the Greens and these independents give the government another term and are big on public infrastructure, social reform, the republic (as Oakeshott is), big Australia etc it could end up worse for the Libs than if Labor had won outright :rollin
Yes was thinking the same thing jake
Also there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of love from the independants and one Barnaby Joyce which is another good laugh :rollin
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This result proves to all that unless your name is Bob Hawke, Labor aren't any good at running government longer than 3 years! Their history speaks loud and clear.
After a landslide victory in 2007 when we all were hopeful that Rudd could make a real difference he was shafted by his own party revealing to all that Labor can't be trusted to govern with a mandate from the Australian public. It shows that Labor are a fractured, unstable organisation with too many hidden agendas and too many heads trying to drive a ship. Problem is that with a constitution that has a 40/40/20 rule that is discrimminatory and is un Australian, the party members are unable to work together or trust one another. Therefore the ship will always sink
A great example of this was Maxine McKew who was a strong supporter of Kevin '07. In her own words she was "factionless" and was therefore NOT supported by Julia's growing faction The Emily's list. Not even a train line could save her in the end.
In conclusion
Luke 11:17
Geez knew their thoughts and said to them: "Any kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and a house divided against itself will fall.
John Curtin was such a disaster of a Labor PM wasn't he leading the country through WWII before he died in office ::). You might also want to check your Australian history of the Gorton/McMahon period if you want to see unstable government in self destruct mode - Malcolm Fraser openingly bagged his own PM John Gorton; Gorton is then challenged by Billy MacMahon but the leadership vote ended up a tie so by Liberal party rules Gorton had to step down; Gorton then runs for and wins the deputy leadership forcing McMahon to make Gorton his defence minister; McMahon then sacks Gorton for disloyalty. Then we had the split in the Libs in 1977 when Don Chipp broke away to form the Democrats. 1968-1982 was a shambles for Australia politically and economically from both sides. Both parties have had major implosions in our history (ALP-DLP split in 1954 was the biggest on the Labor side) and to think otherwise is just showing blatant bias.
If you believe there are no factions in the Liberal party then you're living in la la land. Abbott won the Liberal party leadership by ONE vote over Turnbull. The Liberal party is split between hardcore conservative and moderate small "l" liberal factions just as the ALP is split between left and right wing factions. With the massive egos in politics on all sides there is always someone waiting to knife their own or opponent to jump up the political ladder.
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No scriptures at the end, mt?
I think it's meant to add some kind of substance to waffle, so you don't need to. :)
Seeing it just makes me think of Fred Nile.
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No scriptures at the end, mt?
"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you."
;)
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Independents Katter, Windsor and Oakeshott are planning to vote as a block.
http://www.theage.com.au/federal-election/trio-joins-forces-as-gillard-claims-right-to-govern-20100822-13axd.html?autostart=1
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Samuel L Jackson vs Fred Nile. It's on!
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Very good MT :bow
Watch the video :lol
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/hilarious-taiwanese-spoof-on-australian-election-20100821-139n4.html?autostart=1
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This result proves to all that unless your name is Bob Hawke, Labor aren't any good at running government longer than 3 years! Their history speaks loud and clear.
After a landslide victory in 2007 when we all were hopeful that Rudd could make a real difference he was shafted by his own party revealing to all that Labor can't be trusted to govern with a mandate from the Australian public. It shows that Labor are a fractured, unstable organisation with too many hidden agendas and too many heads trying to drive a ship. Problem is that with a constitution that has a 40/40/20 rule that is discrimminatory and is un Australian, the party members are unable to work together or trust one another. Therefore the ship will always sink
A great example of this was Maxine McKew who was a strong supporter of Kevin '07. In her own words she was "factionless" and was therefore NOT supported by Julia's growing faction The Emily's list. Not even a train line could save her in the end.
In conclusion
Luke 11:17
Geez knew their thoughts and said to them: "Any kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and a house divided against itself will fall.
John Curtin was such a disaster of a Labor PM wasn't he leading the country through WWII before he died in office ::). You might also want to check your Australian history of the Gorton/McMahon period if you want to see unstable government in self destruct mode - Malcolm Fraser openingly bagged his own PM John Gorton; Gorton is then challenged by Billy MacMahon but the leadership vote ended up a tie so by Liberal party rules Gorton had to step down; Gorton then runs for and wins the deputy leadership forcing McMahon to make Gorton his defence minister; McMahon then sacks Gorton for disloyalty. Then we had the split in the Libs in 1977 when Don Chipp broke away to form the Democrats. 1968-1982 was a shambles for Australia politically and economically from both sides. Both parties have had major implosions in our history (ALP-DLP split in 1954 was the biggest on the Labor side) and to think otherwise is just showing blatant bias.
If you believe there are no factions in the Liberal party then you're living in la la land. Abbott won the Liberal party leadership by ONE vote over Turnbull. The Liberal party is split between hardcore conservative and moderate small "l" liberal factions just as the ALP is split between left and right wing factions. With the massive egos in politics on all sides there is always someone waiting to knife their own or opponent to jump up the political ladder.
comparing the liberal democratic process of voting in a leader to the ALP system of knifing is laughable just read their constitution and you will see all the "hidden" rules regarding factions. There is absolutely nothing in the liberal party constitution that accounts for factions at all.
The 40/40/20 affirmative action rule is a joke and anyone with eyes can read that garbage.
There may be differences in party politics but as the Abbott and Turnbull experience showed, when the party is ALLOWED TO VOTE democracy wins because ALL have a say.
On the independants it's most likely you will all have your way and the Gillard government will be returned despite MORE people voting for liberal in Australia than the ALP.
It's likely that the faceless MAFIA men behind the ALP will probably make an offer the independants can't refuse.
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On the independants it's most likely you will all have your way and the Gillard government will be returned despite MORE people voting for liberal in Australia than the ALP.
It's likely that the faceless MAFIA men behind the ALP will probably make an offer the independants can't refuse.
Well gee if you are going to use the argument that more people voted for the COALITION (it's not just the Liberal party BTW) then perhaps retrospectively we should allow Kim Beasley to be PM for a period seeing that in IIRC 1996 1998 the Labor party won the majority of the primary vote but Howard & the Coalition won the election with the higer number of two part preferred votes ..
Hmmmm sound familar?
You are using numbers to make your case which using history doesn't stack up ;D
The bottom line is that neither of the major parties have been given the right by the people of this country to govern in their own right.
Now if Tony wants to do a deal I suggest he throw away the "John Howard/Paul Keating I was Born to Rule; It is my right after Saturday Night" handbook and start showing some respect to our system, our constitution, our country and the people of this country and talk to these people rather harping on about how after Saturday night the result shows that only he has the right to form a government and not the incumbants.
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On the independants it's most likely you will all have your way and the Gillard government will be returned despite MORE people voting for liberal in Australia than the ALP.
That is such a p!ssweak point.
Everybody knows that in a full preferential system it comes down to which of the major parties you put first on the ballot paper, and 150,000 more Australians put Labor ahead of Liberal.
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Maybe they may look at the New Zealand system now. Not sure how it works or if it will work for us, but they have a number of ministers from minority parties, like Maori Party, ACT and United Future.
They seem to have a pretty stable working relationship.
http://www.elections.org.nz/voting/mmp/history-mmp.html
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Maybe they may look at the New Zealand system now. Not sure how it works or if it will work for us, but they have a number of ministers from minority parties, like Maori Party, ACT and United Future.
They seem to have a pretty stable working relationship.
http://www.elections.org.nz/voting/mmp/history-mmp.html
If we adopted exactly the same system we would have (roughly speaking)
Labor :- 65
Liberal :- 51
LNP :- 15
Green :- 19
Although one would expect to see the Nationals pile in with the Liberals to get 5% of the vote, which would see:
Labor :- 62
Lib/Nat/LNP :- 70
Grn :- 18
Personally I'm not sure it makes for better government as it dilutes executive power. The oscillation between left and right in the two-party system tends to have a self-correcting effect, and we already have a form of proportional representation in the upper house.
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NZ don't have an upper house either, so it's a system that would operate a lot better than ours when a minor party/independents don't hold the balance of power, like our Senate.
Going to be very complex, and I think, like NZ, people will be frustrated and will be wanting some kind of change to the voting system.
No-one wins in this and we'll be back to the polls pretty soon I'd think.
:help
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On the independants it's most likely you will all have your way and the Gillard government will be returned despite MORE people voting for liberal in Australia than the ALP.
It's likely that the faceless MAFIA men behind the ALP will probably make an offer the independants can't refuse.
Well gee if you are going to use the argument that more people voted for the COALITION (it's not just the Liberal party BTW) then perhaps retrospectively we should allow Kim Beasley to be PM for a period seeing that in IIRC 1996 the Labor party won the majority of the primary vote but Howard & the Coalition won the election with the higer number of two part preferred votes ..
Hmmmm sound familar?
You are using numbers to make your case which using history doesn't stack up ;D
The bottom line is that neither of the major parties have been given the right by the people of this country to govern in their own right.
Now if Tony wants to do a deal I suggest he throw away the "John Howard/Paul Keating I was Born to Rule; It is my right after Saturday Night" handbook and start showing some respect to our system, our constitution, our country and the people of this country and talk to these people rather harping on about how after Saturday night the result shows that only he has the right to form a government and not the incumbants.
sorry WP but I was making a point about the ALP factions in reply to what MT was saying.
the bit about more votes to the coalition (I meant coalition) was just a fact I put in there.
Lastly, I liked Kim Beasley alot. I just don't like the ALP.
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This could bring on an unheard of scenario where the Coalition and Labor will work together on a number of things I'm thinking.
The Greens want to bring on a debate in Parliament about bringing troops home from Afghanistan. Well, I don't think either the Coalition or Labor want to bring them home, so they will outnumber the Greens in the Senate should a bill get through to them.
Hopefully, they can work together more on other issues.
How long are Senate terms?
Whether we have another federal election sooner rather than later, Senators remain for their period of office :-\
God help us :banghead
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How long are Senate terms?
Whether we have another federal election sooner rather than later, Senators remain for their period of office :-\
God help us :banghead
6 year terms for the Senate IIRC, hence why we basically have half senate elections every 3 years
FWIW all the new senators elected on Saturday dont' take up their positions until the 1/7/2011. So the Green's don't have the "power" they won on Saturday until July.
Hopefully by then Bob Brown will know the name of the Victoria bloke (Richard Di Natale) who became their first senator from Vic... didn't anyone else see that on the news yesterday ??? Bob Brown no being able to remember the names of the 2 Victorian blokes who won :rollin :rollin hysterical stuff
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I my opinion the quicker they do away with compulsory voting the better it will be for all.
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I my opinion the quicker they do away with compulsory voting the better it will be for all.
Seeing the informal vote was over 600K this election (a staggering number and a major concern IMHO) I don't think we can afford to make voting non-compulsory...
If they did that it; it may end being just you and me voting Mr Tigra ;D
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I my opinion the quicker they do away with compulsory voting the better it will be for all.
Seeing the informal vote was over 600K this election (a staggering number and a major concern IMHO) I don't think we can afford to make voting non-compulsory...
If they did that it; it may end being just you and me voting Mr Tigra ;D
and me, I even had a party Sat night, a few fights but no affairs :-(
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This result proves to all that unless your name is Bob Hawke, Labor aren't any good at running government longer than 3 years! Their history speaks loud and clear.
After a landslide victory in 2007 when we all were hopeful that Rudd could make a real difference he was shafted by his own party revealing to all that Labor can't be trusted to govern with a mandate from the Australian public. It shows that Labor are a fractured, unstable organisation with too many hidden agendas and too many heads trying to drive a ship. Problem is that with a constitution that has a 40/40/20 rule that is discrimminatory and is un Australian, the party members are unable to work together or trust one another. Therefore the ship will always sink
A great example of this was Maxine McKew who was a strong supporter of Kevin '07. In her own words she was "factionless" and was therefore NOT supported by Julia's growing faction The Emily's list. Not even a train line could save her in the end.
In conclusion
Luke 11:17
Geez knew their thoughts and said to them: "Any kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and a house divided against itself will fall.
John Curtin was such a disaster of a Labor PM wasn't he leading the country through WWII before he died in office ::). You might also want to check your Australian history of the Gorton/McMahon period if you want to see unstable government in self destruct mode - Malcolm Fraser openingly bagged his own PM John Gorton; Gorton is then challenged by Billy MacMahon but the leadership vote ended up a tie so by Liberal party rules Gorton had to step down; Gorton then runs for and wins the deputy leadership forcing McMahon to make Gorton his defence minister; McMahon then sacks Gorton for disloyalty. Then we had the split in the Libs in 1977 when Don Chipp broke away to form the Democrats. 1968-1982 was a shambles for Australia politically and economically from both sides. Both parties have had major implosions in our history (ALP-DLP split in 1954 was the biggest on the Labor side) and to think otherwise is just showing blatant bias.
If you believe there are no factions in the Liberal party then you're living in la la land. Abbott won the Liberal party leadership by ONE vote over Turnbull. The Liberal party is split between hardcore conservative and moderate small "l" liberal factions just as the ALP is split between left and right wing factions. With the massive egos in politics on all sides there is always someone waiting to knife their own or opponent to jump up the political ladder.
comparing the liberal democratic process of voting in a leader to the ALP system of knifing is laughable just read their constitution and you will see all the "hidden" rules regarding factions. There is absolutely nothing in the liberal party constitution that accounts for factions at all.
The 40/40/20 affirmative action rule is a joke and anyone with eyes can read that garbage.
There may be differences in party politics but as the Abbott and Turnbull experience showed, when the party is ALLOWED TO VOTE democracy wins because ALL have a say.
It's likely that the faceless MAFIA men behind the ALP will probably make an offer the independants can't refuse.
As I said anyone who doesn't believe the Liberal Party have factions of hardline conservatives (Howard, Abbott, etc) and moderate small "l" liberals (Costello, Turnbull, etc) is living in la la land.
The Liberal party have gone through 3 opposition leaders in 3 years. They aren't bad at knifing each other themselves. Both sides are ruthless. Both parties have leadership ballots unless the incumbant realises he/she doesn't have the numbers and doesn't contest the ballot allowing the challenger to take the reigns uncontested.
On the independants it's most likely you will all have your way and the Gillard government will be returned despite MORE people voting for liberal in Australia than the ALP.
The ALP as a single party got more primary votes than any other party. It isn't a fragmented coalition of Libs, Nats, LNP (Qld), CLP, WA Nats needing to add their votes together because none on their own can match Labor.
In any case our electoral system in the lower house doesn't work by first past the post and nor should it. Why should someone with a minority of 40% of the vote be elected if the other 60% majority dislike this candidate and prefer someone else in be it their first or second choice candidate. That's why we have preferential voting.
On two party preferred Labor has the most votes nationwide.
Australian Labor Party 5,063,869 50.66%
Liberal/National Coalition 4,932,436 49.34%
Out of interest the Labor also has more seats in 4 of the 6 states including the two most populus NSW and Vic. Not relevant to who wins though.
At the end of the day it is who can win or collect the majority of seats in the lower house that wins power. At the moment
Australian Labor Party 72 (73)
Liberal/National Coalition 70 (73)
Greens 1 (1)
Independents 3 (3)
Doubtful 4
Total 150 (150)
The () are the most likely seat numbers when the counting is finally finished but that's still up in the air and could change with pre-polling and postal votes which make up 15% of the total votes. Still impossible to know who will govern.
Doubtful seats:
Hasluck (WA) - Libs in front by 382 votes but 25% of the votes are pre-polling and postal votes which are yet to be counted so too close to call.
Dunkley (Vic) - Libs in front by 612 votes. Stuff in the counting had 200 Labor votes in the Libs pile. Fixed now so it's now doubtful.
Boothby (SA) - Libs in front by 663 votes. Libs sandbagged this seat (local calling of voters) so will probably hang on although it's classed as doubtful.
Denison (Tas) - ALP in front by 408 votes. Two party preferred has to be recounted given the AEC always puts ALP vs Coalition on election night. This has to be changed to ALP vs Ind. if the Independent (Andrew Wilkie) finishes ahead of the Libs and gains their preferences. At the moment only 28 of the 56 booths have been changed and where the remaining booths come from will determine the winner. North Hobart is Labor heartland whereas as Hobart city is Greens territory.
Scenarios:
If Labor loses Denison then they'll only have 72 seats compared to the Libs 73 if they hold on to their leads in the three other doubtful seats. Labor would then need the one Green MP vote (whose already agreed to support Labor) and 3 of the 4 independents to retain power. The Libs would have 73 seats and would only need 3 of the independents to gain power.
If Labor retains Denison then it'll be 73-all with Labor effectively having 74 with the Green MP. Still could go either way depending on the 3 independents.
If Labor retains Hasluck and Denison then that will effectively rule out a Coalition minority government as they'll only have 72 seats.
It's way way too early to know who will win.
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On the independants it's most likely you will all have your way and the Gillard government will be returned despite MORE people voting for liberal in Australia than the ALP.
The ALP as a single party got more primary votes than any other party. It isn't a fragmented coalition of Libs, Nats, LNP (Qld), CLP, WA Nats needing to add their votes together because none on their own can match Labor.
I heard Abbot on the radio saying that the libs got the most primary votes so they should get in. Then later he said that it doesnt matter that the ALP got the most primary votes :wallywink.
Ahh, I think that effort needs another :wallywink
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I heard Abbot on the radio saying that the libs got the most primary votes so they should get in. Then later he said that it doesnt matter that the ALP got the most primary votes :wallywink.
Ahh, I think that effort needs another :wallywink
Saw Tony on the news last night refusing to speak to reporters - didn't seem happy. ;D
Perhaps it's dawned on him that he and his party(ies) haven't got some automatic right to think that are the only ones who deserve to form a govenrment: they have to negotiate with the indy's
Although I think it may have had something to do with a stuff up at the AEC that means a seat they claimed on Saturday night may not be there's after all .... :rollin
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Yesterday the vote counting swung to Labor and today it's gone the other way although Labor has made small gains in Hasluck and Dunkley.
Boothby (SA) is no longer listed as doubtful so the Libs look home there as was expected.
Dunkley (Vic) - Libs lead by 497 votes. Too close to call.
Hasluck (WA) - Libs lead by 317 votes. Too close to call.
Denison (Tas) - Indepedent Andrew Wilkie has jumped ahead of Labor by 1091 votes two-party preferred with 47 of the 56 booths in. All those booths that have come in today much have come from Hobart city with so many preferences favouring Wilkie. Still up to where the remaining final 9 booths come from but Wilkie has a big lead now.
So at the moment by seats won according to the AEC
ALP 71
Coalition 71
Green 1
Indep. 4
Doubtful 3
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Saw Tony on the news last night refusing to speak to reporters - didn't seem happy. ;D
Why speak when there is nothing to say. To me this shows more self control that Julia's recent blurts about nothing... ::)
I think the people in Taiwan have been able to describe our whole whole election process to a T with a classic animated news program.
This is a must see YouTube clip. Its Hilarious!!
http://www.youtube.com/user/3AWRadio#p/a/u/1/y_rOMhCHK50
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I my opinion the quicker they do away with compulsory voting the better it will be for all.
Seeing the informal vote was over 600K this election (a staggering number and a major concern IMHO) I don't think we can afford to make voting non-compulsory...
If they did that it; it may end being just you and me voting Mr Tigra ;D
And when you think that Mr Rabbit & others are hell bent on demonising 3000 odd refugees arriving in boats who would just love to be able to vote & participate in a free democracy........
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Why demonise Tony's appearance Beren?
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We may as well elect this Caro lookalike hey Beren ?. He'd do a better job than all of 'em. Dontcha reckon it looks like Caro ?
(http://hollywoodjesus.com/movie/et/05.jpg)
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Who the eff is Mr Rabbit? Why are the refugees odd, are you suggesting that they look funny coz they don't have red hair and big huge freckles? I don't think they really give a poo about democracy either, they just don't want to drink water with turds in it anymore which is fair enough. At the end of the day, if you are voting for a govt. to lead us based on the citizens of other countries, then you are a moron, we need leadership for our citizens. That issue is a side issue and a minor one, the bulk of immigration in this country walks straight through the front door through bs fee for education schemes which I had the misfortune of witnessing during my teaching and also through sneaky cheap labour scams designed to undermine the local market and force prices down. Vote Lib if you want more of that by the way, Labor really is not any better, they have not fixed any of Jackboots little scams, they tut tutted them then just left em in place. Ask the construction blokes about the work site stasi who can pull em in without legal representation for attending union meetings.
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I my opinion the quicker they do away with compulsory voting the better it will be for all.
Seeing the informal vote was over 600K this election (a staggering number and a major concern IMHO) I don't think we can afford to make voting non-compulsory...
If they did that it; it may end being just you and me voting Mr Tigra ;D
And when you think that Mr Rabbit & others are hell bent on demonising 3000 odd refugees arriving in boats who would just love to be able to vote & participate in a free democracy........
Beren, its not about the refugees as individuals or their desire for freedom. Its how they get here via criminal means. But hey if you want to be in favour of an open door policy and allow illegal people smuggling to flourish then good luck to you. I personally will not stand by and watch our boarder protection policies get peed all over by criminals who know how to work the currently flawed system.
Remember there are thousands of legitimate immigration applications awaiting approval to enter this country. Why should these people who also as you say, would be thrilled to vote and participate in a free democracy be disadvantaged by others who choose to come and enter this country via a criminal path.
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Personally I don't think Julia has the julies to run the country, this isn't Middle Earth
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Magic Rings just don't cut it i middle earth anymore do they Gerkin? I mean, if you let some orcs in then you have to let all the orcs in, next thing they are raping all the elves and stealing all the unicorns and stabbing all the halflings. I mean the only ones safe are the Rangas and the elderly. Even then its dicey, those orcs will pork anything.
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Magic Rings just don't cut it i middle earth anymore do they Gerkin? I mean, if you let some orcs in then you have to let all the orcs in, next thing they are raping all the elves and stealing all the unicorns and stabbing all the halflings. I mean the only ones safe are the Rangas and the elderly. Even then its dicey, those orcs will pork anything.
Good heavens
:lol
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I voted Green myself. A lot of people say I wasted my vote, I think Infamy said it once. One bloke said 'But Owl, they want to legalize gay marriage!!!' And I said yeah I know, I wanna help em, why should they get out of being stuffing miserable like everyone else. Gay men will rejoice as they don't have a wife to give all their stuff to when they get divorced and if anyone can work out how Lesbians are gonna figure it all out, draw me a diagram because I gave up.
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As long as they don't start having kids who cares what they do with their sausages and crumpets.
I voted Greens because I want a high speed train and a block of hash to smoke at 400kph while I read Rodox.
Also I'm offended by your ranga comment Owl. If it is not in front of Gillard or Jackson it is unnecessary and off-topic.
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I have decided I want Bob Katter for PM now, he is winning me over.
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Why speak when there is nothing to say. To me this shows more self control that Julia's recent blurts about nothing... ::)
Well Tony had plenty to say on Saturday night, and yesterday ;D Actually yesterday he just repeated what he said on Sunday... he does that alot Tone, repeating himself
And after today's comments to the Indy's about how he "loves the bush" and then something about how comfortable he feels when he goes to the bush I think it would be a good idea if took your advice on board tiga ;D
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The voting counting is still up in the air even if the doubtful seats are changing. Labor still holding a lead in Corangamite by 573 votes; Hasluck looks like going to the Libs with postals favouring them; while Brisbane is the 3rd doubtful seat. Labor making inroads on postals and absentees there as the Libs lead has gone from 785 down to 382 votes two-party preferred.
So current (predicted) seat standings are:
ALP 71 (72)
Coalition 71 (73)
Green 1 (1)
Indep. 4 (4)
Doubtful 3
Total 150 (150)
With 4 independents it's still anybody's.
The 3 ex-conservative independents have made 7 demands:
http://resources.news.com.au/files/2010/08/25/1225910/057630-hs-news-file-independents-list-of-demands.pdf
However Abbott doesn't want Treasury to cost his policies :whistle
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/special-reports/open-your-books-or-else-independents-warn-tony-abbott/story-fn5ko0pw-1225910148218
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Why speak when there is nothing to say. To me this shows more self control that Julia's recent blurts about nothing... ::)
Well Tony had plenty to say on Saturday night, and yesterday ;D Actually yesterday he just repeated what he said on Sunday... he does that alot Tone, repeating himself
And after today's comments to the Indy's about how he "loves the bush" and then something about how comfortable he feels when he goes to the bush I think it would be a good idea if took your advice on board tiga ;D
He is pretty useless isn't he...bloody brown nose. He was never meant to succeed, just be a divisive pain in the bum until someone better could swoop in, the problem is, everytime someone intelligent actually leads the liberals their supporters get upset LOL Turnbull, Fraser, Peacock, Hewson...instead they prefer these nutty ranters like Howard and Abbot with hardcore religious affiliations... scares me silly, I want to keep church and state separate personally.
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ONE of the men holding the balance of power in Australia wants to redraw the map of Australia to boost development and fit more people in.
Independent MP Bob Katter believes the map should be redrawn to dramatically change the borders of the Northern Territory and Queensland, the NT News reports.
The NT would gain the Kimberley and Broome, but lose Borroloola and the McArthur River mine.
Mr Katter, who represents a north Queensland seat in Canberra, said the NT should be renamed the state of North-Western Australia.
He said it could:
BETTER exploit its natural resources;
BECOME a food bowl;
ACCOMMODATE an extra 100,000 people.
Mr Katter also wants Queensland split into two states - north and south - from a line heading west from near Rockhampton.
He said Australia should be reconfigured to "develop and occupy" its land mass.
"I don't know of anywhere else in the world where people are governed by a government thousands of kilometres away," he said.
Former WA Labor Attorney-General Jim McGinty scoffed at the idea.
"Bob Katter is as silly as a cut snake,” he said.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/special-reports/bob-katter-says-australias-nt-qld-borders-should-be-redrawn/story-fn5ko0pw-1225910420574
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The idea of redrawing the state and territory boundries in the north is nothing new and has some merit. Most involve North Queensland as well, but given Catter comes from those parts Its no surpise he wants Queensland to gain, not lose.
The north of Australia will never become a food bowl, for so many reasons. Typical attitude, we stuffed what we got so lets go and stuff somewhere else as well. Morons!
As for Booraloola. A lot of Queensland fisherman vist there because you can still catch Barramundi in the NT, but I dont know of too mant NT fishos who venture over to QLD for their fishing.
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I my opinion the quicker they do away with compulsory voting the better it will be for all.
Seeing the informal vote was over 600K this election (a staggering number and a major concern IMHO) I don't think we can afford to make voting non-compulsory...
If they did that it; it may end being just you and me voting Mr Tigra ;D
And when you think that Mr Rabbit & others are hell bent on demonising 3000 odd refugees arriving in boats who would just love to be able to vote & participate in a free democracy........
Mr Rabbit? What the stuff is that about? You disgust me..... :shh
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Katter is a genius. We need some new states and capital cities, i'm bored with the old ones and kids grow up thick because they can count them on their fingers. I propose the newest capital city be called Goblin Town.
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Maybe Bob Katter could secede from the Commonwealth, set up his own little sovreign state and declare himself KingKatter.
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Would this sovereign state be called Goblin Town?
I've been waiting for the headline "KATTER-MONGST THE PIGEONS"
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Would this sovereign state be called Goblin Town?
I've been waiting for the headline "KATTER-MONGST THE PIGEONS"
King Katter of Goblin Country, capital city, Goblin Town.
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The idea of redrawing the state and territory boundries in the north is nothing new and has some merit. Most involve North Queensland as well, but given Catter comes from those parts Its no surpise he wants Queensland to gain, not lose.
The north of Australia will never become a food bowl, for so many reasons. Typical attitude, we stuffed what we got so lets go and eff somewhere else as well. Morons!
As for Booraloola. A lot of Queensland fisherman vist there because you can still catch Barramundi in the NT, but I dont know of too mant NT fishos who venture over to QLD for their fishing.
I agree with you again Al, gettin scary...lol. The problem with North Western Australia is this, It has these huuuge magnificent water storage reserves but the soil will not support any of our crops at all, all attempts have failed. Katter has to do some reading on that score. If you want to turn North Qld into a food bowl you gotta bulldoze all the forests. Here is the clincher. We produce plenty of food, far in excess of what we can eat here, what we have done is hocked most of our food production off to overseas interests so they basically ship all our food off overseas. We don't NEED food production. Personally I don't particularly want to cram people into the country from coast to coast, I kinda like the fact we are one of the last places on earth where you can get away from the incessant human plague. I already live on a subdivided block and it irritates the crap out of me, that and the calcutta cattle class train system seem to have now.
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I my opinion the quicker they do away with compulsory voting the better it will be for all.
Seeing the informal vote was over 600K this election (a staggering number and a major concern IMHO) I don't think we can afford to make voting non-compulsory...
If they did that it; it may end being just you and me voting Mr Tigra ;D
And when you think that Mr Rabbit & others are hell bent on demonising 3000 odd refugees arriving in boats who would just love to be able to vote & participate in a free democracy........
Mr Rabbit? What the eff is that about? You disgust me..... :shh
LOL
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The idea of redrawing the state and territory boundries in the north is nothing new and has some merit. Most involve North Queensland as well, but given Catter comes from those parts Its no surpise he wants Queensland to gain, not lose.
The north of Australia will never become a food bowl, for so many reasons. Typical attitude, we stuffed what we got so lets go and eff somewhere else as well. Morons!
As for Booraloola. A lot of Queensland fisherman vist there because you can still catch Barramundi in the NT, but I dont know of too mant NT fishos who venture over to QLD for their fishing.
I agree with you again Al, gettin scary...lol. The problem with North Western Australia is this, It has these huuuge magnificent water storage reserves but the soil will not support any of our crops at all, all attempts have failed. Katter has to do some reading on that score. If you want to turn North Qld into a food bowl you gotta bulldoze all the forests. Here is the clincher. We produce plenty of food, far in excess of what we can eat here, what we have done is hocked most of our food production off to overseas interests so they basically ship all our food off overseas. We don't NEED food production. Personally I don't particularly want to cram people into the country from coast to coast, I kinda like the fact we are one of the last places on earth where you can get away from the incessant human plague. I already live on a subdivided block and it irritates the crap out of me, that and the calcutta cattle class train system seem to have now.
Could you imagine the outcry if we exported directly, the water used to grow the food that we export? (not to mention waste as well)
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This result proves to all that unless your name is Bob Hawke, Labor aren't any good at running government longer than 3 years! Their history speaks loud and clear.
After a landslide victory in 2007 when we all were hopeful that Rudd could make a real difference he was shafted by his own party revealing to all that Labor can't be trusted to govern with a mandate from the Australian public. It shows that Labor are a fractured, unstable organisation with too many hidden agendas and too many heads trying to drive a ship. Problem is that with a constitution that has a 40/40/20 rule that is discrimminatory and is un Australian, the party members are unable to work together or trust one another. Therefore the ship will always sink
A great example of this was Maxine McKew who was a strong supporter of Kevin '07. In her own words she was "factionless" and was therefore NOT supported by Julia's growing faction The Emily's list. Not even a train line could save her in the end.
In conclusion
Luke 11:17
Geez knew their thoughts and said to them: "Any kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and a house divided against itself will fall.
John Curtin was such a disaster of a Labor PM wasn't he leading the country through WWII before he died in office ::). You might also want to check your Australian history of the Gorton/McMahon period if you want to see unstable government in self destruct mode - Malcolm Fraser openingly bagged his own PM John Gorton; Gorton is then challenged by Billy MacMahon but the leadership vote ended up a tie so by Liberal party rules Gorton had to step down; Gorton then runs for and wins the deputy leadership forcing McMahon to make Gorton his defence minister; McMahon then sacks Gorton for disloyalty. Then we had the split in the Libs in 1977 when Don Chipp broke away to form the Democrats. 1968-1982 was a shambles for Australia politically and economically from both sides. Both parties have had major implosions in our history (ALP-DLP split in 1954 was the biggest on the Labor side) and to think otherwise is just showing blatant bias.
If you believe there are no factions in the Liberal party then you're living in la la land. Abbott won the Liberal party leadership by ONE vote over Turnbull. The Liberal party is split between hardcore conservative and moderate small "l" liberal factions just as the ALP is split between left and right wing factions. With the massive egos in politics on all sides there is always someone waiting to knife their own or opponent to jump up the political ladder.
comparing the liberal democratic process of voting in a leader to the ALP system of knifing is laughable just read their constitution and you will see all the "hidden" rules regarding factions. There is absolutely nothing in the liberal party constitution that accounts for factions at all.
The 40/40/20 affirmative action rule is a joke and anyone with eyes can read that garbage.
There may be differences in party politics but as the Abbott and Turnbull experience showed, when the party is ALLOWED TO VOTE democracy wins because ALL have a say.
It's likely that the faceless MAFIA men behind the ALP will probably make an offer the independants can't refuse.
As I said anyone who doesn't believe the Liberal Party have factions of hardline conservatives (Howard, Abbott, etc) and moderate small "l" liberals (Costello, Turnbull, etc) is living in la la land.
The Liberal party have gone through 3 opposition leaders in 3 years. They aren't bad at knifing each other themselves. Both sides are ruthless. Both parties have leadership ballots unless the incumbant realises he/she doesn't have the numbers and doesn't contest the ballot allowing the challenger to take the reigns uncontested.
On the independants it's most likely you will all have your way and the Gillard government will be returned despite MORE people voting for liberal in Australia than the ALP.
The ALP as a single party got more primary votes than any other party. It isn't a fragmented coalition of Libs, Nats, LNP (Qld), CLP, WA Nats needing to add their votes together because none on their own can match Labor.
In any case our electoral system in the lower house doesn't work by first past the post and nor should it. Why should someone with a minority of 40% of the vote be elected if the other 60% majority dislike this candidate and prefer someone else in be it their first or second choice candidate. That's why we have preferential voting.
On two party preferred Labor has the most votes nationwide.
Australian Labor Party 5,063,869 50.66%
Liberal/National Coalition 4,932,436 49.34%
Out of interest the Labor also has more seats in 4 of the 6 states including the two most populus NSW and Vic. Not relevant to who wins though.
At the end of the day it is who can win or collect the majority of seats in the lower house that wins power. At the moment
Australian Labor Party 72 (73)
Liberal/National Coalition 70 (73)
Greens 1 (1)
Independents 3 (3)
Doubtful 4
Total 150 (150)
The () are the most likely seat numbers when the counting is finally finished but that's still up in the air and could change with pre-polling and postal votes which make up 15% of the total votes. Still impossible to know who will govern.
Doubtful seats:
Hasluck (WA) - Libs in front by 382 votes but 25% of the votes are pre-polling and postal votes which are yet to be counted so too close to call.
Dunkley (Vic) - Libs in front by 612 votes. Stuff in the counting had 200 Labor votes in the Libs pile. Fixed now so it's now doubtful.
Boothby (SA) - Libs in front by 663 votes. Libs sandbagged this seat (local calling of voters) so will probably hang on although it's classed as doubtful.
Denison (Tas) - ALP in front by 408 votes. Two party preferred has to be recounted given the AEC always puts ALP vs Coalition on election night. This has to be changed to ALP vs Ind. if the Independent (Andrew Wilkie) finishes ahead of the Libs and gains their preferences. At the moment only 28 of the 56 booths have been changed and where the remaining booths come from will determine the winner. North Hobart is Labor heartland whereas as Hobart city is Greens territory.
Scenarios:
If Labor loses Denison then they'll only have 72 seats compared to the Libs 73 if they hold on to their leads in the three other doubtful seats. Labor would then need the one Green MP vote (whose already agreed to support Labor) and 3 of the 4 independents to retain power. The Libs would have 73 seats and would only need 3 of the independents to gain power.
If Labor retains Denison then it'll be 73-all with Labor effectively having 74 with the Green MP. Still could go either way depending on the 3 independents.
If Labor retains Hasluck and Denison then that will effectively rule out a Coalition minority government as they'll only have 72 seats.
It's way way too early to know who will win.
MT, I must commend you on your lengthy answers.
Please answer this questions for me;
what is the total primary vote of the ALP and of the Coalition?
How many votes did Julia win by when she beat Rudd to allow her to become PM?
On the issue of factions.
I must be from La la land as you say because Im positive there are no real factions in the liberal party.
Read the liberal party constitution and tell me where it is written ANY provision for factions. The ALP constitution is wall to wall and jammed full of provision, written to solidify the needs of leading factions within the party.
You keep talking about knifing leadership. Let's talk FACTS here. When Abbott beat Turnbull it was because of a VOTE within the members in the party, If I remember correctly Abbott won by 1 vote.
When Gillard took over the leadership over Rudd it NEVER went to a VOTE from caucus it is now revealed that factional heavy weights made the decision.
Now we learn more from State MP Craig Langford that once again these factions have flexed muscle he couldn't stand it any longer so he's jumped ship 3 months before a state election.
One last question;
Name 1 truly factional men or women or group within the liberal party, dictating constitutional policy, preselection or Platform.
Fact is MT that the ALP is a multi-headed monster without true unity that will always struggle to govern effectively.
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Still rambling on about the voting, or lack of, for the leader? When there is only one person challenging and the incumbent does not fight the challenge, you still have a vote do you?
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I my opinion the quicker they do away with compulsory voting the better it will be for all.
Seeing the informal vote was over 600K this election (a staggering number and a major concern IMHO) I don't think we can afford to make voting non-compulsory...
If they did that it; it may end being just you and me voting Mr Tigra ;D
And when you think that Mr Rabbit & others are hell bent on demonising 3000 odd refugees arriving in boats who would just love to be able to vote & participate in a free democracy........
Mr Rabbit? What the eff is that about? You disgust me..... :shh
LOL
What ya laughing at mate? Careful or I will ban you for no reason :lol
Bob Brown is a top bloke. Met him at a servo once :thumbsup
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I must be in la la land too Tigra, I can still see knife holes in Brendon Nelson's and Malcom Turnbull's back respectively lol its like a friggen carousel of assassins over there, but don't let a good wheel barrow load of garden fertilizer spoil a good propaganda yarn. You read too much of Andrew Bolt I suspect. Lemme guess, its all those faceless men eating babies and punching puppies over at Labor HQ pulling the strings.
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I must be in la la land too Tigra, I can still see knife holes in Brendon Nelson's and Malcom Turnbull's back respectively lol its like a friggen carousel of assassins over there, but don't let a good wheel barrow load of garden fertilizer spoil a good propaganda yarn. You read too much of Andrew Bolt I suspect. Lemme guess, its all those faceless men eating babies and punching puppies over at Labor HQ pulling the strings.
can any of you people read.
I have NEVER written that there isn't challenges to leadership within the Liberal party. What I have written is that when there is a challenge it goes to a VOTE within the causus and the member with the most VOTES wins leadership.
FACT; VOTING didn't happen in the Gillard/Rudd fiasco. Not 1 member of the Labor caucus voted. No democracy in the ALP just factional heavyweights flexing muscle. It's more a multi-headed monster dictatorship!!
If you all are so sure that the Liberal party has true factionism please answer my question?
*Name 1 truly factional man or woman or group within the liberal party, dictating constitutional policy,
pre-selection or Platform.
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MT, I must commend you on your lengthy answers.
Please answer this questions for me;
what is the total primary vote of the ALP and of the Coalition?
We do not work on a primary vote first past the post system so what each party has in primaries is irrelevant compared to the two-party preferred vote. Labor got the most primary votes in Denison but guess what they didn't win that seat. Actually the ALP got the most votes of any single party. The Coalition is made up of 5 separate parties so hardly a fair comparision to say 5 parties put together got more primary votes than one other party. If the system was based on primary votes then the game would change. Labor would form a coalition of their own with the Greens to get the most primaries in the most seats. Sorry you can't change the rules during or after the game has been played. The Libs/Nats are anti-constitutional change and now after the election they want to claim a new non-constitutional rule to decide the winner when neither side has a majority of seats. Hilarious!
How many votes did Julia win by when she beat Rudd to allow her to become PM?
There was no vote because Rudd stood down and didn't contest the leadership in a ballot. With only Gillard vying for the leadership it didn't to go to a vote. It's happened before on both sides. Both sides regularly do have leadership ballots. Keating failed to beat Hawke in a ballot when he first challenged. It took a second ballot later on before he got the top job.
On the issue of factions.
I must be from La la land as you say because Im positive there are no real factions in the liberal party.
Read the liberal party constitution and tell me where it is written ANY provision for factions. The ALP constitution is wall to wall and jammed full of provision, written to solidify the needs of leading factions within the party.
You keep talking about knifing leadership. Let's talk FACTS here. When Abbott beat Turnbull it was because of a VOTE within the members in the party, If I remember correctly Abbott won by 1 vote.
When Gillard took over the leadership over Rudd it NEVER went to a VOTE from caucus it is now revealed that factional heavy weights made the decision.
Now we learn more from State MP Craig Langford that once again these factions have flexed muscle he couldn't stand it any longer so he's jumped ship 3 months before a state election.
Just because it's not any constitution doesn't mean it doesn't it. There's no mention of political parties in the Australian constitution IIRC (except the amendment relating to 1975 dismissal where nowdays a vacancy in the Senate must replaced by a person of the same political party as the one quitting). That doesn't mean political parties don't exist.
"The [Liberal] party has mainly two unorganised factions, the majority conservative right and the minority moderate left. Historically, moderates have at times formed their own parties, most notably the Australian Democrats who gave voice to what is termed small-l liberalism in Australia."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Party_of_Australia
One last question;
Name 1 truly factional men or women or group within the liberal party, dictating constitutional policy, preselection or Platform.
The Liberal party are famous for their preselection spats within the party itself.
"In 2003, after only two years in the federal Parliament, Peter King was challenged for his Liberal endorsement in Wentworth by Malcolm Turnbull, a wealthy merchant banker, Federal Treasurer of the Liberal Party and former head of the Australian Republican Movement. After a prolonged and very acrimonious campaign, Turnbull won Liberal endorsement for the 2004 election. King ran as an independent and received 18% of the primary vote. For running against a preselected Liberal party member, King was banned from the Liberal Party for ten years. His wife Fiona, daughter of former National Party leader Ian Sinclair, was banned for five years."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_King_%28Australian_politician%29
Anyway according to the AEC there's no doubtful seats although Antony Green on the ABC site has Brisbane as close but the Libs should win that unless there's some surprise large late swing to the ALP in the absentee, pre-poll and postal votes. So it looks it'll be
Coalition 73 .... including the WA Nationals MP who is claiming to be an independent
ALP 72
Green 1
Indep. 4 ...... Katter, Windsor, Oakeshott and Wilkie
With the Green MP siding with Labor then it's 73-all. All up to the 4 independents now to "pick" the winner :-\
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MT, I must commend you on your lengthy answers.
Please answer this questions for me;
what is the total primary vote of the ALP and of the Coalition?
We do not work on a primary vote first past the post system so what each party has in primaries is irrelevant compared to the two-party preferred vote. Labor got the most primary votes in Denison but guess what they didn't win that seat. Actually the ALP got the most votes of any single party. The Coalition is made up of 5 separate parties so hardly a fair comparision to say 5 parties put together got more primary votes than one other party. If the system was based on primary votes then the game would change. Labor would form a coalition of their own with the Greens to get the most primaries in the most seats. Sorry you can't change the rules during or after the game has been played. The Libs/Nats are anti-constitutional change and now after the election they want to claim a new non-constitutional rule to decide the winner when neither side has a majority of seats. Hilarious!
How many votes did Julia win by when she beat Rudd to allow her to become PM?
There was no vote because Rudd stood down and didn't contest the leadership in a ballot. With only Gillard vying for the leadership it didn't to go to a vote. It's happened before on both sides. Both sides regularly do have leadership ballots. Keating failed to beat Hawke in a ballot when he first challenged. It took a second ballot later on before he got the top job.
On the issue of factions.
I must be from La la land as you say because Im positive there are no real factions in the liberal party.
Read the liberal party constitution and tell me where it is written ANY provision for factions. The ALP constitution is wall to wall and jammed full of provision, written to solidify the needs of leading factions within the party.
You keep talking about knifing leadership. Let's talk FACTS here. When Abbott beat Turnbull it was because of a VOTE within the members in the party, If I remember correctly Abbott won by 1 vote.
When Gillard took over the leadership over Rudd it NEVER went to a VOTE from caucus it is now revealed that factional heavy weights made the decision.
Now we learn more from State MP Craig Langford that once again these factions have flexed muscle he couldn't stand it any longer so he's jumped ship 3 months before a state election.
Just because it's not any constitution doesn't mean it doesn't it. There's no mention of political parties in the Australian constitution IIRC (except the amendment relating to 1975 dismissal where nowdays a vacancy in the Senate must replaced by a person of the same political party as the one quitting). That doesn't mean political parties don't exist.
"The [Liberal] party has mainly two unorganised factions, the majority conservative right and the minority moderate left. Historically, moderates have at times formed their own parties, most notably the Australian Democrats who gave voice to what is termed small-l liberalism in Australia."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Party_of_Australia
One last question;
Name 1 truly factional men or women or group within the liberal party, dictating constitutional policy, preselection or Platform.
The Liberal party are famous for their preselection spats within the party itself.
"In 2003, after only two years in the federal Parliament, Peter King was challenged for his Liberal endorsement in Wentworth by Malcolm Turnbull, a wealthy merchant banker, Federal Treasurer of the Liberal Party and former head of the Australian Republican Movement. After a prolonged and very acrimonious campaign, Turnbull won Liberal endorsement for the 2004 election. King ran as an independent and received 18% of the primary vote. For running against a preselected Liberal party member, King was banned from the Liberal Party for ten years. His wife Fiona, daughter of former National Party leader Ian Sinclair, was banned for five years."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_King_%28Australian_politician%29
Anyway according to the AEC there's no doubtful seats although Antony Green on the ABC site has Brisbane as close but the Libs should win that unless there's some surprise large late swing to the ALP in the absentee, pre-poll and postal votes. So it looks it'll be
Coalition 73 .... including the WA Nationals MP who is claiming to be an independent
ALP 72
Green 1
Indep. 4 ...... Katter, Windsor, Oakeshott and Wilkie
With the Green MP siding with Labor then it's 73-all. All up to the 4 independents now to "pick" the winner :-\
thankyou MT
so in conclusion then;
There was NO VOTE when Gillard knifed RUDD. Interesting.
There are NO ORGANISED FACTIONS in the Liberal party NOW. (there may be spats from time to time but organised factionalism with a political agenda and constitutional policy is a totally different story). In what organised faction were your examples Turnbull or King from?
Sorry MT you tried to convince me but There are no true factions. I suggest you try again.
Finally everyone knows that the coalition isn't just 1 political party but a union of party's in order to form government. And you and I know that they have more primary votes than the ALP. Fact. Now I know that the preferential system doesn't account for this but you did leave this fact out from your last post.
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I am no political Einstien, I'll be first to admit! But wouldn't we be better off doing it all again. This all seems a recipe for disaster.
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I agree CUB, I think all the protest voters will pull their heads in this time around and committ. Bob Katter should start his own party imo lol. He has done alright sans a cadre of sycophantic PR goons guiding his every word and action. It won't happen though, unless there is a complete block and no-one can agree to work out a govt. Quite possible at this rate. The issue is that the 3 ex nationals can't stand the libs and feel the nationals betrayed their constituents HOWEVER, their constituents are still essentially allied to that side of politics so any move to side with labor, despite them having policies more in line with what all three of them want ironically, could be political suicide. To go back with the bastards they split from who have snubbed their needs would be to reneg on their moral stand and would make them look like phonies which I suspect is not something they would take lightly. The way they are painting jug head into a corner suggests they are playing hard ball so I dunno, they might not back anyone.
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I am no political Einstien, I'll be first to admit! But wouldn't we be better off doing it all again. This all seems a recipe for disaster.
I read during the week CUB there is 170 million reasons ($$$$) why they don't want to do it again
That's what they reckon it would cost to do it all again.
Bottom line is I don't reckon either party wants to go again because they are both terrifed of what the outcome would be and besides what happens if we got a similar result (we wouldn't but who knows). Do we keep going back until someone wins outright?
And what about Senator Stephen Fielding (Family First but his brain comes last) saying if the Labor forms a minority govt he will use his power in the senate up until 30/6/2011 to block supply because in his opinion they don't deserve to form government because they were "rejected by the people"
No wonder you've lost your Senate seat Stephen you goose
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No wonder you've lost your Senate seat Stephen you goose
He has a nerve saying the ALP has no legitimacy when he has none either lol
:wallywink
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keating got it right, 'Unrepresentative Swill.'
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Just in from AEC
Gerkin Greg has won the seat of Goblin Town
He'll be doing a duet of Islands in the Stream with Bobby Katter late this afternoon
Afterwards he'll stop talking in the third person and have an Ultimate Whopper
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Quick get the needle! :-\
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Ur Jerkin the Gerkin! Right?
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That fielding only got in on labor prefs too the rotten bastard, it was some ridiculous spiteful spat with the greens on prefs, the Greens lost that little battle but won the war, Labor needs them, the Greens couldn't care less . They have kissed and made up since but looks like this nasty religious zealot has forgotten just how he got his seat. Labor abandoned its traditional supporter base by moving further and further right. They forgot just who created them. Both sides are going to lose punters on the outer reaches. The Greens surge is no accident, most of the old Democrats that weren't into selling out like old Meg went over to them, they are providing the best option at the moment for lefties or those concerned with their major issues, and they are only getting stronger. I love it personally, Make the bastards work for it on both sides, no easy rides any more, make em get into bed with other parties so that their voters are represented too, not just steal their votes and ignore them. The libs have to rely on national votes or they would be completely irrelevant. Labor is going to end up the same way. I like the fact that a lot of independants' right or left, are that way because they made a moral stand against the BS and now they are getting a chance to flex a bit. Kudos.
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thread needs more stott despoja
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Fielding is an idiot and an attention seeker ::).
Wilkie wants betting limits placed on pokies as a condition for his support. He might gets both parties at Federal level interested but good luck turning it into practice with State Governments relying on gaming as a revenue stream.
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That fielding only got in on labor prefs too the rotten bastard,
Was it ALP or DLP preferences? I recall DLP preferences were important. DLP is closer to the hard right of the Liberal party than the Labor party these days.
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Labor. They were peeed off at the Greens. There was a school of thought in Labor to start attacking the Greens as the enemy as they were pulling traditional Labor voters away. State labor in Victoria is still doing it. Ill get the full story off of the missus. The DLP are an old Catholic party that got wiped out during a double dissolution. They used to have some pull federally a long time ago, they are making a small come back again but they will never be anything much, to narrow band.
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Fielding only got 55k primary votes when the quota for the Senate seat was 428k. After all the preferences were distributed he ended up with 540k votes :P. It took 285 preference distribution counts for him to reach the quota. By the 263rd preference distribution count Fielding still only had 110k votes. It came down to a battle between Fielding and the Greens' Risstrom and virtually all of the Libs for Forests, Democrats, DLP and finally ALP preferences went to Fielding so he got in.
http://results.aec.gov.au/12246/results/External/SenateStateDop-12246-VIC.pdf
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As I thought. Ridiculous that this "unrepresentative swill"* got in as a senator and held everyone to ransom and is even now threatening to be a destructive influence in his dying days. Libs for forests ROFL what a feed of horsesh!t they were. Libs for Forests for woodchips for Japanese toilet paper more like it.
*Paul Keating regarding the Family First Party
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The Libs hit the front in the total two-party preferred vote this morning so Abbott comes out and claims he's no longer the opposition. The vote then swings back with the ALP now 3000 votes in front and Abbott has gone quiet :wallywink.
At Tues, 3.30pm
Australian Labor Party 5,414,648 50.01%
Liberal/National Coalition 5,411,529 49.99%
Amazing how there's only 3000 difference from a voting population of 14 million (81.5% ttp counted). Reminds
me of the old Goodies episode where Tim and Bill tied as PM and they had to play "It's a Knockout" style game against the other leaders of the world with one leg tied to the other three-legged style. Maybe Julia and Tony need to do the same for the next 3 years ;D.
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Hahaha that was a gold episode, Can't remember who Graeme voted for?
Anyway I like the idea MT but instead of tying Jules and Tone together they should be sewn together Human Centipede style.
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The Libs hit the front in the total two-party preferred vote this morning so Abbott comes out and claims he's no longer the opposition. The vote then swings back with the ALP now 3000 votes in front and Abbott has gone quiet :wallywink.
At Tues, 3.30pm
Australian Labor Party 5,414,648 50.01%
Liberal/National Coalition 5,411,529 49.99%
Amazing how there's only 3000 difference from a voting population of 14 million (81.5% ttp counted). Reminds
me of the old Goodies episode where Tim and Bill tied as PM and they had to play "It's a Knockout" style game against the other leaders of the world with one leg tied to the other three-legged style. Maybe Julia and Tony need to do the same for the next 3 years ;D.
Where would the Libs be without the Nats?
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Where would the Libs be without the Nats?
If Ma Powell was around her answer would be:
"Where they are now; NOWHERE" :rollin :rollin
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who cares :gotigers
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The Libs hit the front in the total two-party preferred vote this morning so Abbott comes out and claims he's no longer the opposition. The vote then swings back with the ALP now 3000 votes in front and Abbott has gone quiet :wallywink.
At Tues, 3.30pm
Australian Labor Party 5,414,648 50.01%
Liberal/National Coalition 5,411,529 49.99%
Amazing how there's only 3000 difference from a voting population of 14 million (81.5% ttp counted). Reminds
me of the old Goodies episode where Tim and Bill tied as PM and they had to play "It's a Knockout" style game against the other leaders of the world with one leg tied to the other three-legged style. Maybe Julia and Tony need to do the same for the next 3 years ;D.
Why do the AEC exclude a whole lot of seats from the two-party-preferred vote? (8 seats at last count).
Bob Brown says that this argument about the TPP vote is ridiculous as when these excluded seats are included again Labor will surely be in front.
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Why do the AEC exclude a whole lot of seats from the two-party-preferred vote? (8 seats at last count).
Bob Brown says that this argument about the TPP vote is ridiculous as when these excluded seats are included again Labor will surely be in front.
I didn't realise that either until last night when Antony Green mentioned it on ABC. It seems the job of the AEC is to try and get a result on Election Night foremostly and worry about completeness later on as the usual a +/-0.3% error on the counting of votes doesn't affect the final result and seat tally. However this time given both parties are 50/50 so a +/-0.3% does matter and as you say Jake the current TPP vote on the AEC site is actually meaningless until all the votes and preferences are counted. Those seats missing apparently favour Labor so Abbott is talking crap as usual.
In any case the TPP vote is irrelevant as it is most seats in the House of Reps that matter and that's up to which side the independents favour. Today the Greens formally backed Labor so effectively now it's 73 seats all (the Green backing will also give the ALP greater backing in the Senate for passing legislation). Now it's all down to Katter, Windsor, Oakeshott and Wilkie who Governs.
The stronger than expected economic data (GDP boost) was some bonus news for the ALP too albeit too late for the Election.
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Why do the AEC exclude a whole lot of seats from the two-party-preferred vote? (8 seats at last count).
Bob Brown says that this argument about the TPP vote is ridiculous as when these excluded seats are included again Labor will surely be in front.
I didn't realise that either until last night when Antony Green mentioned it on ABC. It seems the job of the AEC is to try and get a result on Election Night foremostly and worry about completeness later on as the usual a +/-0.3% error on the counting of votes doesn't affect the final result and seat tally. However this time given both parties are 50/50 so a +/-0.3% does matter and as you say Jake the current TPP vote on the AEC site is actually meaningless until all the votes and preferences are counted. Those seats missing apparently favour Labor so Abbott is talking crap as usual.
In any case the TPP vote is irrelevant as it is most seats in the House of Reps that matter and that's up to which side the independents favour. Today the Greens formally backed Labor so effectively now it's 73 seats all (the Green backing will also give the ALP greater backing in the Senate for passing legislation). Now it's all down to Katter, Windsor, Oakeshott and Wilkie who Governs.
The stronger than expected economic data (GDP boost) was some bonus news for the ALP too albeit too late for the Election.
I'm convinced that Abbott really doesn't want to govern with a Green controlled senate, and merely wants this process to drag out, for Gillard to seem more and more the doormat of a few independents, and then to havee an election in 12 months where he might havee a chance of beating a battered government.
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I'm convinced that Abbott really doesn't want to govern with a Green controlled senate, and merely wants this process to drag out, for Gillard to seem more and more the doormat of a few independents, and then to havee an election in 12 months where he might havee a chance of beating a battered government.
It's true it could all fall apart in months even if there is an agreement but they said the same thing when the independents backed Bracks after the close 1999 Victorian Election and it not only survived the 4 year term but Labor as the Government won in a landslide (with the help of a opposition in disarray). They're still in Government 11 years later. Incumbancy gives you power in Australia as the public most times vote Governments out rather than oppositions in.
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Age reporting there's a $7 billion hole in the Coalition's Costing, HUN saying it's $10 bil
Funny stuff indeed :rollin
And Jake I tend to agree about Tony not actually wanting to form government :thumbsup
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Age reporting there's a $7 billion hole in the Coalition's Costing, HUN saying it's $10 bil
Joe Hockey's lunch expenses?
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Joe Hockey's lunch expenses?
:lol
Age reporting there's a $7 billion hole in the Coalition's Costing, HUN saying it's $10 bil
They Libs must have got Arthur Andersen to do their costings ;D. Not to worry as Tony finds economics boring. No wonder the Libs didn't want to put their costings into Treasury. Holding another election sounds pretty good now.
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Independent MP Andrew Wilkie has announced he will back a Labor minority government.
His decision means Labor has 74 definite seats, two short of the majority needed to secure power.
The Coalition is at 73 seats if West Australian Nationals MP Tony Crook is included.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/09/02/3000874.htm
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BOB Katter has put a sweeping policy manifesto to Julia Gillard and Tony Abbott, calling for devaluation of the Australian dollar, no tax on biofuels, tough quarantine rules to curb food imports and laws to break up Coles and Woolworths.
http://www.theage.com.au/federal-election/katter-puts-priorities-on-the-table-20100902-14ro4.html
Good luck Bob getting support from the major parties on allowing Government to devalue the dollar artificially :help. There was an argument before the GFC that 70 US cents is a reasonable level for the Aussie dollar as it makes our primary/farming goods competitive on an international level but it should only reach that price by market forces. At the moment with our interest rates approaching a "normal" level while the rest of the developed world is in emergency low rate mode it keeps our dollar high.
The Libs need al 3 ex-Nat independents which includes Bob to form Government whereas Labor only needs two of the them and they don't need Katter's support if Windsor and Oakeshott .
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The 3 country independents to make their final decision on which side to support over the weekend according to the news.
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hopefully the election finishes up tomorrow. when the indie's finally announce who there lining with.
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hopefully the election finishes up tomorrow. when the indie's finally announce who there lining with.
We can only hope but at the same time we could leave things as they are .....
It's been relatively peaceful for the last 17 days :rollin :rollin
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I think Labour will take Charlie home. Worst result would be back to the polls especially during a finals campaign having to listen to their crap, unless its a Pies flag then id rather listen to Abbott and Gillard go at it.
I cant want to see what crap that Bishop comes up with if they lose.
Is it just me or is that lady the most annoying idiot in politics.
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The 3 country independents will announce their final decision at 3pm
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Katter supporting the Coalition (but he would've gone with Labor if Rudd was still PM ??? ). So it's now 74-all.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/special-reports/nationals-mp-tony-crooks-support-for-the-coalition-could-influence-who-forms-government/story-fn5ko0pw-1225915005948
Up to Oakeshott and Windsor to be kingmakers. If they split their decision then it's back to the polls.
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We can only hope but at the same time we could leave things as they are .....
It's been relatively peaceful for the last 17 days :rollin :rollin
:lol
Just shows the bureaucrats mostly run the country :yep
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Windsor is supporting the ALP stating broadband as his major issue as well as climate change.
75 - 74 in favour of the ALP.
So the Libs are gone. Down to Oakeshott deciding if it's either a Labor Government or another election.
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Rob Oakeshott said his decision is based on what benefits rural Australia the most:
(i) Numbers on the floor
(ii) Roll of the Senate and passing legislation
(iii) Which party can work best with the independents rather than knife us
(iv) Stability - which party can run a government/parliament for the next 3 years
Outcome
(i) "A regional package never seen before and "turbo-charge" regional Australia". No details given though!
(ii) 2011 Henry tax review to be thrown into the public domain for open discussion
(iii) Referendum in 3 years on acknowledging Indigenous Australia in the Constitution
(iv) Broadband
(v) Dealing with the education crisis in rural Australia. Credited some of the policies started by Gillard when she was Education Minister.
"Judgement call" and "points decision" to Gillard and Labor unless there's exceptional circumstances such as malpractice, corruption or not agreeing to what agreements they signed.
So that's it. 76-74 so Gillard remains PM and Labor stays in Government.
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hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha suck on my left one Abbott
Now lets hear again his pathetic "the people have spoken line"
Its like Collingwood losing the flag this is. It feels good knowing a loser like Abbott wont be our PM.
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Well this is the better result IMHO.
Gillard is deeply unimpressive in some regards, but Abbott is utterly ignorant and lazy in a lot of ways.
It looks like the NBN might have sealed it in the end. I think this is nation building and like Katter said, there isn't votes in it but it is courageous and good for the future of this country.
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We can only hope but at the same time we could leave things as they are .....
It's been relatively peaceful for the last 17 days :rollin :rollin
:lol
Just shows the bureaucrats mostly run the country :yep
Wise words.
Can I use that line?
Do you want me to acknowledge the source?
:bow
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Listening to the press conferences of each Leader again highlighted to me why I wouldn't & cannot support Abbott.
We got the same retric again "We won the primary vote, we won the 2 party preferred vote (it's 50.01% -v- 49.99% atm btw ::) I wouldn't call that having won when they are still counting), we won the most seats blah blah..." It's about being humble and even dare I say it gracious - this born to rule mentality is IMHO one of things that cost the coalition big time
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Is it just me or is that lady the most annoying idiot in politics.
She's annoying daniel but she isn't that important in the overall scheme of things
Barnaby Joyce is the most annoying moron in federal politics IMHO
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Listening to the press conferences of each Leader again highlighted to me why I wouldn't & cannot support Abbott.
We got the same retric again "We won the primary vote, we won the 2 party preferred vote (it's 50.01% -v- 49.99% atm btw ::) I wouldn't call that having won when they are still counting), we won the most seats blah blah..." It's about being humble and even dare I say it gracious - this born to rule mentality is IMHO one of things that cost the coalition big time
I had to laugh when I heard senator munchkin saying that labor had been arrogant.
He then went on to say that real enemy was labor. ( a reference to the two independents that sided with the ALP) He then referred to labor as the enemy another two or three times. A truly scary mindset that shows his only interest is being in power and not what is best for the country.
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LMAO at a week after Tony Abbott pro,ising 'kinder, gentler' politics him saying that they will be 'ferocious' in opposition. The man changes his mind on a daily basis.
I think what Katter said tonight on the 730 report about Rudd holds a great deal of weight - that he had a vision for Australia that was about nation building and went over and above the politics of power and vote buying. It would seem to me that both Gillard and Abbott are very flexible in what they will do or say to gain or hold onto power and very much in the Howard style in this regard. I think as time goes by Rudd's execution will be seen as a very sorry episode in our nations political history.
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Barnaby Joyce is the most annoying moron in federal politics IMHO
And his big fat mouth has just cost the Coalition a chance of government ;D.
Going by what Windsor said at his media conference it's going to be war in rural seats at the next election whenever that is with him pushing country voters to abandon the National Party and vote for independents in each and every seat. If rural voters heed the call it could wipe out the National Party.
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Listening to the press conferences of each Leader again highlighted to me why I wouldn't & cannot support Abbott.
We got the same retric again "We won the primary vote, we won the 2 party preferred vote (it's 50.01% -v- 49.99% atm btw ::) I wouldn't call that having won when they are still counting), we won the most seats blah blah..." It's about being humble and even dare I say it gracious - this born to rule mentality is IMHO one of things that cost the coalition big time
It's quite funny that Tony our chief monarchist and ardent opponent to any constitutional change doesn't understand our Westminster system :wallywink.
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from all the recycled lines liberals polly's have said over the past 2 days about how its not going to work and rifts are appearing to all the repeated dribble the labor people are sayings how its a new way of doing parliament. all i can say is its going to be a long couple of years.
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There's more unity at Essendon right now than in politics on both sides. The only reason Julie Bishop is still deputy leader of the opposition is because Andrew Robb didn't have the numbers to challenge her yesterday. And Robb only wanted that position so he could then push for the shadow treasurer's job.
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Senator Arbib now the Minister for sport.
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Senator Arbib now the Minister for sport.
So Arbib is now the Government rep for our 2022 World Cup Bid with Kate Ellis moved to employment participation and childcare.
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Fielding has today officially lost his Senate seat and been replaced by a DLP candidate :o.
So Senate seats won:
Vic NSW Qld WA SA Tas NT ACT 2010 Total (Previously)
ALP 2 2 2 2 2 3 1 1 = 15 31 (32)
Lib/Nat 2 3 3 3 3 2 1 1 = 18 34 (37)
Greens 1 1 1 1 1 1 = 6 9 (5)
DLP 1 = 1 1 (-)
Indep. = - 1 (1)
Fam First = - - (1)
In the House of Reps, Labor is 62,000 votes ahead on two-party preferred after 92% of the votes counted. Means nothing now except Abbott can no longer claim the Coalition got the higher TPP :wallywink
Australian Labor Party 6,192,076 50.25%
Liberal/National Coalition 6,130,660 49.75%
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Fielding has today officially lost his Senate seat and been replaced by a DLP candidate :o.
Without doubt one of the best highlights of the election seeing Fielding given the stuff
Very sad however that he lingers and probalby holds the country to ransom again on until 30/6/2011
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To many socialists in here I reckon. gillard and labor will stuff Australia. she promised no carbon tax now theres a carbon tax back on the agenda, poor old pensioners, the disabled and others on low incomes are gonna get screwed on their utility bills without being able to increase their income to pay for it. Do you guys want hundreds of thousands of new people under the poverty line? Then theres the resources tax, thats a disgrace as well. Doing a deal with BHP and Rio and screwing all the little explorers doing there best. Then theres the bogus building the schools revolution- Im spewing Im not a builder- I could have passed of a bungalow for a school hall and gotten 2 million bucks.
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To many socialists in here I reckon. gillard and labor will stuff Australia. she promised no carbon tax now theres a carbon tax back on the agenda, poor old pensioners, the disabled and others on low incomes are gonna get screwed on their utility bills without being able to increase their income to pay for it. Do you guys want hundreds of thousands of new people under the poverty line? Then theres the resources tax, thats a disgrace as well. Doing a deal with BHP and Rio and screwing all the little explorers doing there best. Then theres the bogus building the schools revolution- Im spewing Im not a builder- I could have passed of a bungalow for a school hall and gotten 2 million bucks.
Isn't this a tax on profits?
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To many socialists in here I reckon. gillard and labor will stuff Australia. she promised no carbon tax now theres a carbon tax back on the agenda, poor old pensioners, the disabled and others on low incomes are gonna get screwed on their utility bills without being able to increase their income to pay for it. Do you guys want hundreds of thousands of new people under the poverty line? Then theres the resources tax, thats a disgrace as well. Doing a deal with BHP and Rio and screwing all the little explorers doing there best. Then theres the bogus building the schools revolution- Im spewing Im not a builder- I could have passed of a bungalow for a school hall and gotten 2 million bucks.
Isn't this a tax on profits?
Companies already pay company tax. BHP and Rio seemed to have cut a deal where the resource tax will only be on Iron Ore and Coal and the rest is protected. So the government is going to screw the junior and middle tier Iron Ore and Coal companies and BHP and Rio will continue to make mega profits from Gas and Oil and Gold and every other resource. Its a disgrace.
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To many socialists in here I reckon. gillard and labor will stuff Australia. she promised no carbon tax now theres a carbon tax back on the agenda, poor old pensioners, the disabled and others on low incomes are gonna get screwed on their utility bills without being able to increase their income to pay for it. Do you guys want hundreds of thousands of new people under the poverty line? Then theres the resources tax, thats a disgrace as well. Doing a deal with BHP and Rio and screwing all the little explorers doing there best. Then theres the bogus building the schools revolution- Im spewing Im not a builder- I could have passed of a bungalow for a school hall and gotten 2 million bucks.
Not true Ramps. No matter which party is governing at the the moment, any bills through parliment need the support of the greens in the upper house and the support of the green and independents in the lower house.
When the green and independent members gave their support to Labor to govern they are really only guaranteeing confidence (which is dependent on circumstances) and supply.
The thing is now that the opposition have more opportunity to affect the bills going through parliament than ever in the last 50 years or so. If things go to poo, all have to take a share in the blame, but the independents possibly more so as they do not have toe any party line in their decision making.
As for the schools "debacle", recently released the report into this found that 3% of projects came under criticism, which is not a bad strike rate for any government for such a big project.
Just curious Ramps, if Labor supporters are all socialists, does that mean that all Lib supporters are fascists?
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To many socialists in here I reckon. gillard and labor will stuff Australia. she promised no carbon tax now theres a carbon tax back on the agenda, poor old pensioners, the disabled and others on low incomes are gonna get screwed on their utility bills without being able to increase their income to pay for it. Do you guys want hundreds of thousands of new people under the poverty line? Then theres the resources tax, thats a disgrace as well. Doing a deal with BHP and Rio and screwing all the little explorers doing there best. Then theres the bogus building the schools revolution- Im spewing Im not a builder- I could have passed of a bungalow for a school hall and gotten 2 million bucks.
Isn't this a tax on profits?
That's the key point.
Market forces would determine that if all that is happening is a reduction in profits, then even if the big firms aren't happy with slightly smaller margins, smaller more ambitious firms would fill the void. The people who lose the most are the fat cat executives with 7 figure bonuses.
It wasn't a bad tax. Norway tax at like 70%. You should give Greece a miss next time you head to Europe ramps - go to Sweden and Norway, you'll see social democracy in action and better looking women.
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To many socialists in here I reckon. gillard and labor will stuff Australia. she promised no carbon tax now theres a carbon tax back on the agenda, poor old pensioners, the disabled and others on low incomes are gonna get screwed on their utility bills without being able to increase their income to pay for it. Do you guys want hundreds of thousands of new people under the poverty line? Then theres the resources tax, thats a disgrace as well. Doing a deal with BHP and Rio and screwing all the little explorers doing there best. Then theres the bogus building the schools revolution- Im spewing Im not a builder- I could have passed of a bungalow for a school hall and gotten 2 million bucks.
Isn't this a tax on profits?
That's the key point.
Market forces would determine that if all that is happening is a reduction in profits, then even if the big firms aren't happy with slightly smaller margins, smaller more ambitious firms would fill the void. The people who lose the most are the fat cat executives with 7 figure bonuses.
It wasn't a bad tax. Norway tax at like 70%. You should give Greece a miss next time you head to Europe ramps - go to Sweden and Norway, you'll see social democracy in action and better looking women.
Swedish birds are all over the Greek Islands during the European Summer ;D
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To many socialists in here I reckon. gillard and labor will stuff Australia. she promised no carbon tax now theres a carbon tax back on the agenda, poor old pensioners, the disabled and others on low incomes are gonna get screwed on their utility bills without being able to increase their income to pay for it. Do you guys want hundreds of thousands of new people under the poverty line? Then theres the resources tax, thats a disgrace as well. Doing a deal with BHP and Rio and screwing all the little explorers doing there best. Then theres the bogus building the schools revolution- Im spewing Im not a builder- I could have passed of a bungalow for a school hall and gotten 2 million bucks.
Isn't this a tax on profits?
That's the key point.
Market forces would determine that if all that is happening is a reduction in profits, then even if the big firms aren't happy with slightly smaller margins, smaller more ambitious firms would fill the void. The people who lose the most are the fat cat executives with 7 figure bonuses.
It wasn't a bad tax. Norway tax at like 70%. You should give Greece a miss next time you head to Europe ramps - go to Sweden and Norway, you'll see social democracy in action and better looking women.
Swedish birds are all over the Greek Islands during the European Summer ;D
aint that the truth!! The best times of my single life were spent taking holidays around those islands, especially little ol lefkada which was filled with some of the best Swedish woman you are ever likely to see in your life.
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To many socialists in here I reckon. gillard and labor will stuff Australia. she promised no carbon tax now theres a carbon tax back on the agenda, poor old pensioners, the disabled and others on low incomes are gonna get screwed on their utility bills without being able to increase their income to pay for it. Do you guys want hundreds of thousands of new people under the poverty line? Then theres the resources tax, thats a disgrace as well. Doing a deal with BHP and Rio and screwing all the little explorers doing there best. Then theres the bogus building the schools revolution- Im spewing Im not a builder- I could have passed of a bungalow for a school hall and gotten 2 million bucks.
Isn't this a tax on profits?
That's the key point.
Market forces would determine that if all that is happening is a reduction in profits, then even if the big firms aren't happy with slightly smaller margins, smaller more ambitious firms would fill the void. The people who lose the most are the fat cat executives with 7 figure bonuses.
It wasn't a bad tax. Norway tax at like 70%. You should give Greece a miss next time you head to Europe ramps - go to Sweden and Norway, you'll see social democracy in action and better looking women.
Swedish birds are all over the Greek Islands during the European Summer ;D
Danish ones too. :thumbsup
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Good to see Tony continuing his good form of saying and agreeing to one thing and then when it comes to actually having to follow through with what he promised he backs away and blames everyone else ... and people wonder why 1/ I don't trust him and 2/ dont like him
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Good to see Tony continuing his good form of saying and agreeing to one thing and then when it comes to actually having to follow through with what he promised he backs away and blames everyone else ... and people wonder why 1/ I don't trust him and 2/ dont like him
WE CANT HAVE people wagging from the parliament. The independents need to vote so they will be forced to vote! Vote 1- TONE ;D
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Good to see Tony continuing his good form of saying and agreeing to one thing and then when it comes to actually having to follow through with what he promised he backs away and blames everyone else ... and people wonder why 1/ I don't trust him and 2/ dont like him
WE CANT HAVE people wagging from the parliament. The independents need to vote so they will be forced to vote! Vote 1- TONE ;D
Wasn't talking about that Ramps - was talking about him signing an agreement about Parlimentary reform and the pairing of the speaker and deputy speaker and now him changing his mind and using the excuse that is in breach of the constitution when the most senior government legal expert says it isn't.
He's a CAD
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I've never seen the C word spelt that way WP?
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I've never seen the C word spelt that way WP?
How else do you spell CAD al? ;D
Trust me I don't use the other "c" word that I think you maybe referring to :nope :nope ;D
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Dont worry WP, Im sure i make up for you. ;D
Particulary in relation to Mr Rabbit. He is going to put his political ambitions ahead of the countries interest and has earned the title.
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Particulary in relation to Mr Rabbit. He is going to put his political ambitions ahead of the countries interest and has earned the title.
Correct that's what I said he's a CAD :thumbsup
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Dont worry WP, Im sure i make up for you. ;D
Particulary in relation to Mr Rabbit. He is going to put his political ambitions ahead of the countries interest and has earned the title.
countrys interest is that the government collapses and we get stable economic management from a new coalition government and not a bunch of leftists running Australia like we're in some commie country as we have now.
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Dont worry WP, Im sure i make up for you. ;D
Particulary in relation to Mr Rabbit. He is going to put his political ambitions ahead of the countries interest and has earned the title.
countrys interest is that the government collapses and we get stable economic management from a new coalition government and not a bunch of leftists running Australia like we're in some commie country as we have now.
hmmm Barnaby Joyce and stable economic management is an oxymoron. Barnaby just by himself is a plain moron lol.
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my favorite book in high school was Machiavelli's The Prince. Great Book that one! ;D