One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: one-eyed on August 01, 2019, 04:44:20 PM
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Hardwick said Ivan Soldo, who has back-filled for Nankervis since May, had been “really good” and removing him from the ruck position would be a tough decision.
“Whether we go by a ruck-by committee approach going forward for the remainder of the year is to be seen,” he said.
“Soldo vs the talls, [Nankervis] vs possibly the smaller-type ruckmen.” Soldo stands at a commanding 2.04m while Nankervis is slightly shorter at 1.99 metres.
"That's something that we've now got up our sleeve that we're really excited about." - Damien Hardwick
The extent of Nankervis’ injury has meant he couldn’t have been “combative” in the ruck contest, Hardwick said, and it was in the club’s best interests to give him another week off.
“Trying to tell [Nankervis] that was pretty tough as you can imagine. He’s a very competitive man who wants to play,” Hardwick said.
“He understands where we are at the moment and he also understands how important he is to the makeup of our side.”
Nankervis will play his third straight VFL game this weekend, following a lengthy absence since round eight due to an adductor injury. But his return to the senior side for the clash against Carlton is set to shake up the ruck division.
Source: The Age (https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/sport/afl/cotchin-out-for-another-fortnight-nankervis-shaping-for-afl-return-next-week-20190801-p52cuw.html) & AFL website (https://www.afl.com.au/news/2019-08-01/premiership-ruckman-to-spend-third-consecutive-week-in-the-vfl)
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Personally I am liking this idea. Soldo has been good so far. Not great, but clearly improving with more games. Nank is a hard competitor and better around the ground, but doesn't have the height and size that Soldo does...
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How much difference will Nank's return make?
Marc McGowan
afl.com.au
6 Aug 2019
Richmond's premiership ruckman Toby Nankervis is primed to make his senior return against Carlton on Sunday after three VFL appearances.
Ivan Soldo has shouldered much of the ruck load in Nankervis' long, adductor-related absence, with support from Mabior Chol, who is also proving a threat up forward.
A much healthier Tigers team will greet 'Nank', who promises to strengthen further a line-up that is peaking at the right end of the year.
Richmond's ruckmen: R20, 2017 to R20, 2019
PLAYER RATING DISP. HITOUTS H.O.WIN% CLEAR. SCORE-INV. INT.MARKS INT.POSS
Toby Nankervis 11.9 15.9 24.8 41.8% 3.2 4.1 1.4 2.9
Ivan Soldo 10.2 8.6 25.5 43.2% 2.2 3.0 0.7 2.2
Mabior Chol 11.0 9.1 8.0 27.1% 1.4 4.7 0.9 1.7
https://www.afl.com.au/news/2019-08-06/stats-files-who-might-steal-jezzas-coleman-medal
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So what does everyone thing our best ruck combo is heading into the finals?
Soldo or Nank as first ruck?
Chol or Balta as second ruck?
Another combo?
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Soldo first ruck. Chol or Balta second. Chol in the F50. Balta on wing or mid.
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Would only play 2 of the 4. As for who those 2 are I still lean towards nank (if fit) and chol but in all honesty I wouldn’t be fussed with whoever they go with.
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Soldo/Chol
Best chemistry and spent plenty of time in vfl together.
If Nank was at his best I'd say but may be underdone
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Soldo has done enough to earn first ruck for the finals. He is a superior tap ruckman and with the fine form our midfield is in, we need to give them first use whenever we can.
2nd ruck is interesting. No one can seem to cop the idea of Nank as a 2nd ruck.
Soldo/Nank for me.
Here is the case:
*Nank is stronger and a better ruckman than Balta and Chol
*He will win way more footy than them
*More confident putting Nank deep in the square one out if we are desperate for a goal, although Chol is gradually getting stronger hands
*Likewise his experience means he knows when to drop in the slot at full back
*Equal or higher than Chol/Balta on the 2nd and 3rd efforts after the ball up/throw in
There is a sacrifice of pace with Nank but not mobility. You see Nank on his haunches at times but he always gets where he needs to be.
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If we take two slow arse rucks into the finals we'll deserve to go out in straight sets... :shh
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If Nank is fit I would find a way to get him in the team. Can mark and kick a goal. Could be the difference
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If we take two slow arse rucks into the finals we'll deserve to go out in straight sets... :shh
That's true if the opposition has athletic rucks. So it's horses for courses. Brisbane's rucks hardly break any land speed records.... :shh
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If we take two slow arse rucks into the finals we'll deserve to go out in straight sets... :shh
Give me your team for next week, not being smart just wanna see where the differences are. (Other thread, save Cyclops moving it :shh)
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Next week after the VFL match...if I can be arsed... :shh :shh
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Next week after the VFL match...if I can be arsed... :shh :shh
:shh
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A shame we haven't been able to try Nank and Soldo combo... Unsure if its wise to debut them together in a final..
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Another gun move by Clarkson to move Big Boy to defence and play Ceglar as first ruck the other night...wouldn't mind seeing Hardwick doing something similar with Nankervis in the future...his intercept marking is elite and his biggest strength along with his aggression...want him to stick around long term but our future and the game's future is the athletic, mobile, spring-heeled type like Chol and Balta (in between his main job of being the next Rance) and then there's high marking forward threat of CCJ which will never go out of style.... :shh
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Any combination of Nank/Soldo and Chol/Balta.
Can't play Nank and Soldo in the same team, just as we can't play Chol and Balta (for this finals series at least).
At their ceilings I'd have Nank and Chol as my chosen two, but Balta must scare the crap out teams is he's roaming through the middle. Chol's half forward work is handy and at this stage better than Balta's IMO.
If CCJ develops to where he's demanding games, then you can probably sit him in either of the two 'Ruck' position - to say you could have Nank/Soldo and CCJ OR CCJ with Balta/Chol.
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Can the Tigers play two genuine ruckmen?
Sarah Black
afl.com.au
4 Sept 2019
Richmond has traditionally shied away from playing two big men, even resorting to one and midfielder Shaun Grigg during the premiership year. With Ivan Soldo and Toby Nankervis both in strong form, coach Damien Hardwick indicated the pair may be rolled out against Brisbane for the first time in over two years. The Tigers' fierce pressure and quick forwards is their trademark. Will playing 'Nando' affect it?
https://www.afl.com.au/news/2019-09-04/your-clubs-burning-questions
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Lucky No.7? Tigers hope rare ruck pairing delivers the goods
AFL.com.au
Sarah Black
Sep 5, 2019
RICHMOND is on the verge of fielding its eighth ruck combination for the year in its qualifying final against Brisbane, and it's a pairing which hasn't been seen in the AFL since round 21, 2017.
Toby Nankervis and Ivan Soldo are rarely a package deal.
Usually, one plays as the team's main ruckman while the other in the VFL or injured. They have played together on just six occasions.
Ivan Soldo gets to grips with Giants opponent Dawson Simpson.
Soldo has stamped his authority on the side after coming in to replace the injured Nankervis (adductor) in round nine.
He has been supported by one of Mabior Chol or Noah Balta over that time, while even the raw but highly promising Callum Coleman-Jones got a run during round 10 when Soldo was suspended.
Callum Coleman-Jones during his AFL debut in round 10.
Nankervis has had a difficult season, missing 11 weeks mid-year, playing three VFL games before breaking through to return against Carlton.
He pulled up sore, missed another two rounds but was the hero in the VFL over the weekend, finishing with 33 hitouts, 22 disposals and the winning goal, paving the way for a potential AFL return.
Tiger rucks in 2019
Combination Rounds in 2019 Total
Nankervis & Balta 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 7
Soldo & Chol 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 22 7
Soldo & Balta 9, 11, 12, 23 4
Nankervis (solo) 2 1
Coleman-Jones & Balta 10 1
Chol & Balta 13 1
Nankervis & Chol 21 1
'Nank or bust' no more
It's a far cry from the start of the season, when the prevailing wisdom saw Nankervis as the player Richmond could least afford to lose.
After 18 months of playing Nankervis and midfielder Shaun Grigg in the ruck, the introduction of the 6-6-6 rule and the dispiriting preliminary final loss to Collingwood in 2018 meant the Tigers' days of one recognised ruckman appeared over.
Nankervis and Grigg made a handy 'ruck' double act.
There was no obvious solution.
Former Category B rookie Soldo was considered off the pace, while Coleman-Jones was just 19 at the start of the season.
Chol and Balta had spent most of 2018 in key-position posts in the VFL, with Soldo filling the ruck role.
But, as they have done for most of their injury-hit season, the Tigers were forced to adapt.
Combination Win-Loss Avg Total Hitouts Avg Total Disp. Avg Total Tackles Avg Total Goals
Soldo & Chol 7-0 31.3 18.7 6.3 1.9
Nankervis & Balta 5-2 28.0 22.4 5.3 1.3
Soldo & Balta 2-2 37.0 17.5 6.8 0.3
Nankervis (solo) 0-1 21.0 15.0 4.0 0.0
Coleman-Jones & Balta 1-0 22.0 31.0 10.0 0.0
Chol & Balta 0-1 22.0 15.0 6.0 1.0
Nankervis & Chol 1-0 40.0 19.0 11.0 0.0
The 'Nando' effect
If Richmond opt for both Nankervis and Soldo (or, 'Nando'), the former is most likely to play as a key forward.
Nankervis uses his body well in contested marking situations, while Soldo's extra five centimetres helps him to be a more effective tap ruckman.
In the six games the pair have played together, two came when Jack Riewoldt was sidelined with an eye injury, with Nankervis playing as a key forward.
But it's a different Richmond attack these days, with an additional tall in Tom Lynch.
Jack Riewoldt and Tom Lynch have jelled well as a tall forward pairing.
There's a risk adding Nankervis to the forward line in place of the more athletic Balta or Chol. The Tigers' game is heavily based around smaller forward-midfielders who can force turnovers, so adding a slower player to the mix could backfire.
Despite Soldo and Balta forming a strong combination in their four matches together, including round 23's efforts against Lions Stefan Martin and Oscar McInerney, Richmond coach Damien Hardwick is keen to bring back Nankervis.
"Toby's built for finals. He's physical, he's tough, he's hard. We're very fortunate this year that we are playing the two rucks, so we can do the ruck by committee and he can have lesser game time," Hardwick said two weeks ago.
And on Monday, the coach was equally effusive.
"We're probably going to go down the two-ruck path, so [Nankervis will] play as first or second ruck and only play [around 70 per cent game time] for our footy club. That'll give him every opportunity to build on from there.
"I think Ivan's been terrific. He had a slow first quarter last week, but the back end of his last three quarters was outstanding. He's just improved every week.
"From where he's come from, about four or five years ago, basically walking off the street to try out (as a Category B rookie), he's been incredible. He's got better and better every game, he's still learning, but we're happy with what he's been putting out on the park."
https://www.afl.com.au/news/2019-09-04/lucky-no7-tigers-hope-rare-ruck-pairing-delivers-the-goods
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The Nank and Soldo experiment worked.
Nank started off shakely with a few turnover and we were smacked in the centre clearances early but he and Soldo after 1/4 time eventually dominated the hitouts and we killed them in the midfield after half-time.
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I thought they were very good and the tap work after quarter time was top notch. Keep them both in
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Went alright and we'll probably get away with again it if we play Geelong .....if we play West Coast I'm not so sure... :shh
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Soldo has really improved. Nankervis is a competitive beast.
Both didn’t do much around the ground though. Nank was great with second efforts in the centre but Soldo was more effective at pure Ruck.
Will it work against west coke? I don’t know.
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I would prefer Soldo ruck vs NicNat than Nank. Nank just isn't big enough. Hopefully the two could work him over if he's a little underdone!
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Toby Nankervis also pulled up well on his AFL return after groin issues and the Nankervis-Ivan Soldo ruck tandem got better as the game wore on.
Soldo had 11 hitouts to advantage — the second-best return in his short career after his 17 against Hawthorn in Round 9 — and Nankervis seven.
The Tigers will still assess that combination entering the preliminary final, but if they take on West Coast they will both be needed against Eagles ruck pair Nic Naitanui and Tom Hickey.
Source: Herald-Sun (https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/richmond/richmond-perfectly-primed-for-preliminary-final-with-sydney-stack-pushing-for-selection/news-story/4224630833412088757e7c755e999c22)
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Tiger tag team set for Mumford match-up
Peter Ryan
The Age
25 September 2019
Richmond have played so many potential ruckmen this season they could form a handy basketball team over summer. Callum Coleman-Jones squeezed one game in between combinations including Noah Balta, Mabior Chol, Toby Nankervis and Ivan Soldo.
On Saturday the Tigers will take both Nankervis and Soldo into a grand final. The pair reunited for the first time this season in week one of the finals, and have now brought their career tally of appearances together to eight.
Whether by coincidence or deliberate management, two of those eight occasions have been against Greater Western Sydney, with one nail-biting loss and a comprehensive win to show for it. Just three of the eight contests have been on the MCG.
But the pair appear at home together, the moustached Soldo and stern Nankervis looking like a pair of old-fashioned fairground attractions as they take turns at centre stage.
The Tigers are, as one AFL assistant coach puts it, "looking for maximum impact around the ball", attempting to nullify the Giants' brilliant stoppage work (they are second in the AFL for scores from centre clearances and ball-ups) and do as they did last week and keep the ball surging forward like a balloon bouncing in the wind.
The important evolutionary step is second only to Tom Lynch's pairing with Jack Riewoldt inside 50 when the structural shifts the Tigers have made since their 2017 flag are ranked.
Throughout 2018 Richmond had hoped they would get away with using Shaun Grigg as a second ruckman, as they had the previous year when Soldo was named emergency week after week.
Coach Damien Hardwick liked the young cousin of Ivan Maric but he held the conventional view that a second ruckman needed to offer something up forward to be preferred to a ground-level player. Soldo, who has kicked six goals in 21 games, could not provide that.
The 2018 preliminary final, when Collingwood dominated around the stoppages, as well as the introduction of the 6-6-6 rule this season, brought that calculated risk to an end. So the Tigers opened the season with Balta supporting Nankervis before the premiership ruckman's adductor injury brought Soldo and then Chol into the picture.
After Nankervis dragged the VFL team over the line in the qualifying final during the AFL's pre-finals bye, there was no doubt he would partner Soldo in the seniors.
They double-teamed Brisbane's Stefan Martin and Geelong's Rhys Stanley in successive weeks. Their pairing at the Gabba was the first time they had linked up since round 21, 2017.
"Soldo has really really grown as a player," Hardwick said.
"He is playing in a grand final. I shake my head. He has become an incredible player for us, that kid."
Nankervis and Soldo now rotate on and off the bench, the Tigers learning from West Coast's flag pairing of Scott Lycett and Nathan Vardy who each played 61 per cent game time of last year's decider.
The Richmond duo have taken a similar approach this finals, with Nankervis playing 60.8 per cent and Soldo 57.1.
Nankervis is a competitive beast who changes angles at stoppages and makes it hard for others to get at the ball in congestion, while Soldo can leap and is good in the air, particularly when dropping back into defence to support David Astbury and Dylan Grimes.
Soldo has been used more often at the centre bounces in the finals, attending 15 compared to Nankervis' 12. The 23-year-old took the first centre bounce after half-time in the preliminary final when Richmond trailed, with the immediate clearance and goal to Lynch getting the Tigers going.
Soldo averages more clearances in the past two games than Nankervis and uses the ball better but he is more susceptible to the bash-and-crash tactics GWS wrecking ball Shane Mumford employs.
Rarely, if ever, seen on the ground together, the pair's work will be critical if the Tigers are to claim their second flag in three seasons.
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/tigers-tag-team-set-for-mumford-match-up-20190924-p52uj2.html
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Are the Tigers a one or two ruckman team?
Nick Dal Santo
SEN
13 Jan 2020
“(Toby) Nankervis for me is the number one ruckman.
“What does (Ivan) Soldo do? What does (Mabior) Chol do? And there’s (Noah) Balta who could be anything. He’s got all the attributes to be a superstar. He does some unusual things, does some brilliant things at times.
“How do they play their structure? What do they do with these other two? Soldo, Chol or Balta? How do they fit them all in?”
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2020/01/12/the-three-big-questions-facing-port-adelaide-richmond-and-st-kilda/
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Soldo keeps improving rapidly - I question if he has not already overtaken a fit Nankervis.
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Are the Tigers a one or two ruckman team?
Nick Dal Santo
SEN
13 Jan 2020
“(Toby) Nankervis for me is the number one ruckman.
“What does (Ivan) Soldo do? What does (Mabior) Chol do? And there’s (Noah) Balta who could be anything. He’s got all the attributes to be a superstar. He does some unusual things, does some brilliant things at times.
“How do they play their structure? What do they do with these other two? Soldo, Chol or Balta? How do they fit them all in?”
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2020/01/12/the-three-big-questions-facing-port-adelaide-richmond-and-st-kilda/
And no mention of CJ, what a joke NDS is
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Nankervis first ruck, CC-J ruck/fwd, Balta chb.
Why??? well Nankervis gives us so much more than soldo once the ball hits the ground and as an around the ground marking option.
Soldo generally still gives us so little apart from winning some hit outs.
CC-J needs games and he is by far a better fwd option and mark than Soldo and Nankervis.He will probably be a better ruckman as well.
Balta fmd it seems people dont want to talk about it but we really do need to replace Rance with a player who has the right physical attributes to play kpd.
It aint rocket science.
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I agree on Balta to defence it seems a good long term prospect but he has to earn his stripes there.
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I actually think Soldo is a better first ruck than Nank. Nank better around the ground but he is well beaten by bigger and better rucks. Soldo holds his own better against the top shelf ones and despite being repeatedly panned by everyone here I think he improved enormously towards the end of 2019 and is by no means ordinary.
Was finding more ball, clunking marks and jagging those easy goals he needs to.
I would consider bringing in CCJ > Nank for a try during preseason games to see how it looks.
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A ruck's main job is to ruck and Soldo does that better than Nank.
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Let’s not forget he is officially brave and fearless premiership ruckman soldo
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His pure ruck work is way better than Nank's and he is improving around the ground.
Slotted a nice goal in the GF.
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A ruck's main job is to ruck and Soldo does that better than Nank.
I respectfully disagree. IMHO.rucks are mostly for pack bullocking work,.blocks, tackles etc with a mark or two around the ground as a mobile tall.
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I actually think Soldo is a better first ruck than Nank. Nank better around the ground but he is well beaten by bigger and better rucks. Soldo holds his own better against the top shelf ones and despite being repeatedly panned by everyone here I think he improved enormously towards the end of 2019 and is by no means ordinary.
Was finding more ball, clunking marks and jagging those easy goals he needs to.
I would consider bringing in CCJ > Nank for a try during preseason games to see how it looks.
Not everyone is panning him, just those who have disliked him from the onset.
It is a long time since we have had a ruckman who can spoon feed our onballers.
Nanks strength is his around the ground work and is competitive in the ruck.
Soldo strength is his ruckwork and is competitive around the ground.
Great to have both these ruck resources available on game day.
CCJ is competitive in the ruck, competitive around the ground but a terrible kick for goal.
If CCJ could fix up his kicking woes he would be a good forward who could go into the ruck.
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I actually think Soldo is a better first ruck than Nank. Nank better around the ground but he is well beaten by bigger and better rucks. Soldo holds his own better against the top shelf ones and despite being repeatedly panned by everyone here I think he improved enormously towards the end of 2019 and is by no means ordinary.
Was finding more ball, clunking marks and jagging those easy goals he needs to.
I would consider bringing in CCJ > Nank for a try during preseason games to see how it looks.
Comparison on marking.
Soldo 33 marks from 14 games in 2019.
Averages 2.05 over career.
Last 4 games in 2019 - 5,1,4,4.
Nankervis 28 markes from 12 games in 2019.
Averages 2.99 over career.
Last 4 ames in 2019 - 2,0,0,5.
It was true IMO that Soldo was a poor around the ground ruck in early years but has closed the gap in 2019.
When the facts change it might be time to revisit conclusions. It is allowable for most people to change their opinions.
As an old ruckman who watched a bit of VFL on the telly last year, CCJ is clearly the best tap ruckman we have. A lot harder in AFL though.
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Short term - Chol/one of Nankervis or Soldo, long term - Chol/CCJ... :shh
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I actually think Soldo is a better first ruck than Nank. Nank better around the ground but he is well beaten by bigger and better rucks. Soldo holds his own better against the top shelf ones and despite being repeatedly panned by everyone here I think he improved enormously towards the end of 2019 and is by no means ordinary.
Was finding more ball, clunking marks and jagging those easy goals he needs to.
I would consider bringing in CCJ > Nank for a try during preseason games to see how it looks.
Comparison on marking.
Soldo 33 marks from 14 games in 2019.
Averages 2.05 over career.
Last 4 games in 2019 - 5,1,4,4.
Nankervis 28 markes from 12 games in 2019.
Averages 2.99 over career.
Last 4 ames in 2019 - 2,0,0,5.
It was true IMO that Soldo was a poor around the ground ruck in early years but has closed the gap in 2019.
When the facts change it might be time to revisit conclusions. It is allowable for most people to change their opinions.
As an old ruckman who watched a bit of VFL on the telly last year, CCJ is clearly the best tap ruckman we have. A lot harder in AFL though.
The conclusion to that is they were both very poor around the ground this yr.. At least Nankervis had an injury excuse for the yr and he was very good in the g/f but they had nothing to beat in that game a past it beat up mumford.
You do realise Soldo has taken just 8 contested marks in his entire career. 7 of them this yr .You could count on one hand the number of times hes had more than 10 disposals a game over the entirety.
Has he improved i suppose he has but where hes at is still not good enough.
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I can't believe Soldo's development, particularly in the 2nd half of 2019. I had him delisted. Now we have him, Nank and CCJ (who has the potential to be an AA ruck IMHO). What the hell do we do with them all? At the end of the day we need to expose CCJ somewhat in this upcoming season. He needs a taste and needs to know he is in our plans. Letting him go due to lack of opportunity would be equal to or worse than Ottens
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All this love for CCJ after 1 AFL game.
Nank and Soldo are miles ahead of him as a ruckman
And Jack and Lynch are miles ahead of him as a KPF.
CCJ has heaps of potential but that is all it is atm.
He is still just a boy and if he plays 5 games in 2020, then it’s bonus.
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CCJ's disposal = Dean Cox
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CCJ has to prove it at the highest level. We have lots of blokes that beat up state level players in the VFL.
Soldo + Nank is a good combo, and I can see CCJ + Chol possibly pushing them out of their respective spots in the future.
RE: Soldo - remember he has been playing footy for what, 3-4 years? 5 max? Nank has played footy most of his life, he's a battler and solid player but Soldo with more development I think will be a genuinely good ruck. His work in the ruck and around the ground has improved by streets in the last 6 months. What we see with Nank now is all we'll ever get - a competitive guy who is good around the ground and gets consistently beaten in the ruck by most high end opposition rucks. He will always get manhandled by the likes of Gawn, Grundy, NicNat etc. Soldo is 100% required for those blokes.
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All this love for CCJ after 1 AFL game.
Nank and Soldo are miles ahead of him as a ruckman
And Jack and Lynch are miles ahead of him as a KPF.
CCJ has heaps of potential but that is all it is atm.
He is still just a boy and if he plays 5 games in 2020, then it’s bonus.
Of course nankervis and soldo are in front of ccj. Neither Nankervis or soldo offer much as a fwd though.
Why does it have to be two ruckmen in the team.
Why cant it be Nankervis OR Soldo playing 70 80% of games and CC-J playing mainly as a fwd offering a chop out.
Coleman- Jones looks to be a far superior mark than in particular Soldo and Nankervis and imo is already in front of those two as a fwd.
At the end of the day CC-J may end up primarily as a kpf rather than a ruckman and if something happens to Lynch in particular or riewoldt, their is only CC-J or Chol who could come in and play kpf atm.
On Soldo i hope he can keep improving but atm hes good at the ruck contest but remains poor around the ground and Nankervis is the opposite tends to get beaten at the ruck contest but is good when it hits the ground and around the ground.
Would be nice to have a ruckman who is good at both aspects rather than playing two ruckmen to get both aspects. Which is what we do atm imo.
The questions i ask is by dropping one of the ruckmen and playing the promising better rounded cc-j do we lose too much. i dont think we would.He would compete in the ruck and offer more as a fwd imo.
What is better for the team the future and if injuries hit play two ruckmen or play a fwd/ruck. I think the latter and cannot see the point in playing two big lumbering ruckmen who only offer half of what is needed or what should be aimed at.
Premiership team or not it still incumbent on those in charge to get games into younger players who look likely to offer more than the incumbents.
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Why does it have to be two ruckmen in the team.
Why cant it be Nankervis OR Soldo playing 70 80% of games and CC-J playing mainly as a fwd offering a chop out.
Coleman- Jones looks to be a far superior mark than in particular Soldo and Nankervis and imo is already in front of those two as a fwd.
But Claw, how top heavy is our forward line going to be with Lynch, Riewoldt & now CCJ up there? And which small forward ends up in the twos because Claw wants 3 talls up forward?
Chaos with pacey small forwards won us a premiership, structure & predictability will put us back into the pack.
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You do realise Soldo has taken just 8 contested marks in his entire career. 7 of them this yr .You could count on one hand the number of times hes had more than 10 disposals a game over the entirety.
As I posted in my previous post, Soldo took 33 marks in 2019, with 14 in his last 4 games.
I don't know where you get your figure of 7 marks this year.
I got my figures from AFL tables.
If your statistical evidence is incorrect then your argument is unsupported.
I suppose everyone is entitled to "alternative facts" in the current world.
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You do realise Soldo has taken just 8 contested marks in his entire career. 7 of them this yr .You could count on one hand the number of times hes had more than 10 disposals a game over the entirety.
As I posted in my previous post, Soldo took 33 marks in 2019, with 14 in his last 4 games.
I don't know where you get your figure of 7 marks this year.
I got my figures from AFL tables.
If your statistical evidence is incorrect then your argument is unsupported.
I suppose everyone is entitled to "alternative facts" in the current world.
Claw was talking contested marks, not marks in general
Whatever the number Soldo's improvement and impact is beyond question. Personally see him as our number 1 ruck now
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Problem with Claw everyone needs to be a star Soldo only going to get better from here.
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Depends on who we play.
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Why the Tigers' twin ruck option should roll on in 2020
By Ed Jackson
AAP
28 Jan 2020
RICHMOND big man Ivan Soldo sees no reason why the Tigers should abandon playing two ruckman in 2020.
Soldo combined with fellow tall Toby Nankervis as the Tigers claimed last year's Toyota AFL premiership.
After debuting in 2017, the ex-soccer player enjoyed a breakout 2019 campaign.
Soldo played 14 games and his form meant when Nankervis came back into the side for the qualifying final against Brisbane, the 23-year-old was still part of Damien Hardwick's matchday 22.
The pair would combine throughout the finals, ending in an 89-point demolition of Greater Western Sydney in the decider.
Although Nankervis is still in rehab after having off-season groin surgery, Soldo is eager to renew their partnership when the 2020 campaign gets underway.
"With the 6-6-6 ... it's pretty demanding on the bodies for a ruckman so to have a chop out definitely helps," Soldo said from Richmond's pre-season training camp on the Gold Coast.
"We've found that having the two rucks really made us dominant in the VFL, so why not let it happen in the AFL? Last year it definitely worked."
Soldo himself is still coming to terms with his annus mirabilis which culminated in a premiership medallion after a Grand Final display which included five marks, 22 hitouts, 17 disposals and a goal in the third quarter.
"Personally I just enjoyed that year. Winning a Grand Final is pretty unreal," he said.
"I guess game-to-game you get more confidence which helps but nothing will ever change with the way I train and I approach it.
"Maybe leading into next year, I hope to play more games as well but, once again, it's up to Dimma (Hardwick) to play me."
https://www.afl.com.au/news/367848/why-the-tigers-twin-ruck-option-should-roll-on-in-2020
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Having two rucks and generally interchanging them from the bench means we are one rotation down on midfield rotations. Therefore need midfielders to rest in the forward line more often to compensate
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That's why we need to start blooding the more athletic, mobile & versatile rucks in CCJ & Chol...won't get away with playing a pair of lumbering dinosaurs forever - will eventually catch up with us and bite us on the arse just like the Grigg tactic did at the end of 2018... :shh
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Problem with Claw everyone needs to be a star Soldo only going to get better from here.
How the hell you come up with that conclusion from what i posted i have no idea.
No wonder i get grumpy with posters.
In a nut shell i have stated Soldo is a comprtent ruckman but been poor in most other aspects and Nankervis is a poor ruckman but been competent in most other aspects.
Now asking for a combination of the two is not asking for a star but asking for a competent well rounded ruckman.
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Brisbane ruckman Stefan Martin doesn't believe Richmond's success with two specialist ruckmen will make it a league-wide phenomenon in 2020.
The Tigers combined Ivan Soldo and Toby Nankervis to great effect in the last few weeks of the season as they claimed their second AFL premiership in the past three years.
Soldo has already indicated he'd be keen for Richmond to continue with the practice into the new season, arguing the league's 6-6-6 rule adds extra workload on a club's ruck division.
Martin says there are definite benefits to coaches picking two specialist ruckmen in a matchday squad, but the move carries risk as well.
"It will depend team-to-team and how strong your ruck division is. You're not going to want to play two just for the sake of it," the 33-year-old told AAP.
"Soldo said something about the work rate being harder and I agree with that but you need a strong ruck division to play two I think.
https://wwos.nine.com.au/afl/twin-rucks-not-for-everyone-says-lion/ede137f9-3615-46af-bab3-8329994dc4b6
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That's why iif you play two rucks you need at least one them to be an athletic mobile type and not slow as treacle... :shh
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Make no mistake the 2 ruck system and Soldo coming into the side had a big impact last season teams thought they could expose us there ,but we turned it around with our midfield also getting first use of the ball.
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If we had one of Grundy, Gawn or a fit NicNat I wouldn't bother either.
Despite that we have a competitive undersized ruck who can run a bit, and a big/tall/built ruck who lumbers around. So playing both is probably our best bet unless CCJ becomes the next Goldstein.
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The boys on the Richmond Tiger Talk Podcast had an interesting discussion on Nank possibly being poached by a Brisbane, Essendon etc as he is out of contract at seasons end and then discussed if this would be a bad thing. Their rationale was predicated on CCJ becoming our main ruckman and Soldo continuing his progression.
I must say I was a little surprised by this as Nank is only 25 and a heart and soul type player within a club. Not only that he is a darn good player.
Thoughts?
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I like him but personally think he'll eventually become expendable and probably sooner rather than later...would benefit a club like the Gold Coast.. to me he's that typical plucky journeyman-type ruckman that the Swans seem to produce or at they least end up at the Swans at some point in their career and usually manage to win a flag or two somewhere along the way.... :shh
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Not sure about that Nank can play let's not forget been battling injury to we look like a better side with him there. Let's wait and see how CCJ goes first and progress in 2020.
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Not sure about that Nank can play let's not forget been battling injury to we look like a better side with him there. Let's wait and see how CCJ goes first and progress in 2020.
Yes l would wait until CCJ is nearing peak output. Right now he is just 20 and not 21 until June. This year and next are still development years.
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Think people are still underestimating Chol... :shh
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Think people are still underestimating Chol... :shh
Do you see him as a ruck or forward primarily?
Would be great if he could be a foil for Lynch and backup ruck to CCJ. Balta to go into Rances key defender role hopefully.
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Primarily a ruck who can play both ends as the situation dictates, which is pretty much what most rucks do to varying degrees nowadays anyway, most notably Gawn....fitness & strength will come,.just needs to start holding his marks... :shh
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I rate Chol took big strides last year.Needs to stay involved tho more in games not go quite that's the area he needs to improve.
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Playing Nank and Ivan together in the finals last year worked but with the shorter quarters now teams aren't going to fatigue as much during games. I know Nank was underdone against Carlton and needed the run and Dimma may go with the same line-up next week to get more match fitness into Nank, but in the long run we may need to play one of them with the more mobile CCJ as their ruck partner. If games are eventually bunched up at some point this year as predicted then we can rotate Nank and Soldo to keep them both fresh throughout the season.
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I think Nank will be overtaken quickly and soon be 3rd in line.
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Need to rucks this week to combat Grundy work him over it worked last time was Chol and Soldo tho.
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Both our rucks played reduced minutes against Carlton. So we played most of the game with only one ruck on the ground.
Time on ground:
Soldo 58 min
Nank 46 min
https://afltables.com/afl/stats/games/2020/031420200319.html
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Both our rucks played reduced minutes against Carlton. So we played most of the game with only one ruck on the ground.
Time on ground:
Soldo 58 min
Nank 46 min
https://afltables.com/afl/stats/games/2020/031420200319.html
Both played reduced minutes in the g/f as well im not even sure they were both on the ground at the same time
In fact id say they were rarely on the ground together with both having limited minutes thru the last 4 games of the yr.It really does beg the question do we need both in the team at the same time.
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Both our rucks played reduced minutes against Carlton. So we played most of the game with only one ruck on the ground.
Time on ground:
Soldo 58 min
Nank 46 min
https://afltables.com/afl/stats/games/2020/031420200319.html
Both played reduced minutes in the g/f as well im not even sure they were both on the ground at the same time
In fact id say they were rarely on the ground together with both having limited minutes thru the last 4 games of the yr.It really does beg the question do we need both in the team at the same time.
I don't think we do.
Soldo is a better ruck, and we need our ruck to win ruck contests. Being useful around the ground is great but Soldo has improved in that sense and ideally you want your KPP's to be doing that, not your backup lumbering 199cm ruckman...
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Death of a ruckman? Why clubs may abandon two big men in 2020
By Mitch Cleary
afl.com.au
11 May 2020
When Richmond won the flag in 2017, Toby Nankervis averaged 82 per cent (102.3 minutes) time on ground during the finals series with the odd chop-out from the 190cm Shaun Grigg.
Nankervis' output dropped to 60 per cent (72.7 minutes) last September as he partnered with Ivan Soldo (52 per cent / 63 minutes) in a combination of two ruckmen who rarely spent time forward.
In the first scenario of shortened quarters in round one this year, Soldo played 58 per cent (60 minutes) and Nankervis 46 per cent (48 minutes), coming off an interrupted pre-season.
Ivan Soldo spent more time in the ruck than Toby Nankervis in round one. Picture: AFL Photos
Given the Tigers proved a standalone ruckman could play more than 100 minutes during a finals series just two seasons ago, it will be intriguing to see how long they persist with two genuine big men in matches that will run between 96 and 104 minutes in 2020.
Especially considering they're two ruckmen that kicked just 10 goals from a combined 26 games last year and essentially only swap together, leaving the other three rotations to be split among 20 teammates.
"We did discuss that (ruck set-up) earlier this week," Tigers coach Damien Hardwick admitted immediately after round one.
"We do like the two rucks, we think all our rucks are quite talented and we've got another kid in (Callum) Coleman-Jones sitting in the reserves as well.
"We'll make an assessment how it goes, it didn't probably work as well as we'd like it to tonight but it's worked well for us over a period of time."
https://www.afl.com.au/news/433087/death-of-a-ruckman-why-clubs-may-abandon-two-big-men-in-2020
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We only Nank in 2017 by himself because there were no other real options.
Soldo hadn't come on yet.
We are better with both and my preference is Soldo.
One thing the article doesn't address is the other players (mids, wings etc) ability to play reduced minutes also. Maybe we don't need to drop a ruck because the other blokes get less time on the field too and should be fresh...
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Dimma said we're going with one ruckman now with the shorter quarters/game. Soldo is now ahead of Nank too.
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Ruckless
With a cardboard cut-out crowd behind the goals it felt like the Tigers channelling their inner Mick Malthouse and playing a cardboard cut-out ruckman.
Toby Nankervis was left out of the team leaving Ivan Soldo to go, err, solo against Grundy and second gamer Darcy Cameron. He was given help from Riewoldt and Lynch.
Collingwood decisively won the centre clearances - 8-6 - and Grundy had the better of the night but he was not commanding.
Source: The Age (https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/lockdown-turns-to-deadlock-as-pies-tigers-draw-20200611-p551t1.html)
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Soldo was a gun not sure better on the night just media love for me even around the ground was very good.
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I’m not sure winning the centre clearances 8-6 is ‘decisive’.
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I’m not sure winning the centre clearances 8-6 is ‘decisive’.
But Grundy is at least responsible for 2 of those clearances.
There were a few instances where Grundy didn't even bother competing in the ruck, stood there and waited for Soldo to tap it to him.
I thought we missed Nank last night. Especially his dropping back and filling the hole down back and his ability to impose in pur F50.
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I thought soldo was average. Truth is about 15 of our blokes were ordinary last night. Id like to the hyphen given games.
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Soldo was decent I thought. Grundy outsmarted him a couple of times but he battled on pretty well and Grundy didn't dominate like he did in R1.
We had far more ineffective players than Soldo.
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Would Coleman Jones offer something more? The hyphen can also go forward and kick goals. We need to give the hyphen a chance.
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Would Coleman Jones offer something more? The hyphen can also go forward and kick goals. We need to give the hyphen a chance.
Yes. CCJ gives us two things. Genuine ruck relief but also ability to play key forward which I think will help Jack even more. If Jack is getting a 3rd tall forward, he is smart enough to take advantage.
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Soldo was fine honestly FMD.
Grundy is the best ruck in the league and that's ahead of top shelf blokes like Gawn and Naitanui.
Nank is nowhere near as competitive in a ruck contest and CCJ would be no better either.
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3. Damien Hardwick made the correct decision to play Ivan Soldo
Brodie Grundy has stamped himself has the game’s premier ruckman over the last season and a half.
A few eyebrows were raised when Damien Hardwick unveiled that Ivan Soldo would be given a one-on-one ruck match-up against the reigning All Australian, especially given the fact the Tigers had the option to play mobile ruckman Toby Nankervis in a dual-ruck set-up, similar to the 2019 grand final.
But Damien Hardwick is a two-time premiership coach for a reason.
Ivan Soldo played the game of his career, tallying 23 hit-outs along with a game-high nine tackles, which made his presence known around the ground. Soldo’s performance has all but certainly solidified him as Richmond’s number one ruckman.
https://www.theroar.com.au/2020/06/12/five-things-we-learnt-from-richmond-versus-collingwood/
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Of course Kane Cornes begs to differ.
RICHMOND - Rucking big issues
Whilst Ivan Soldo was serviceable at the stoppages against Brodie Grundy on Thursday night, he offers nothing around the ground and the lack of ruck class at Richmond could develop into a major problem as the year goes on.
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2020/06/12/your-clubs-fortunes-summed-up-in-three-words/
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Slomo & Nank are outdated models...need to start blooding Chol, CCJ and even Balta....skill/speed/agility/versatility/scoreboard impact....and in CCJ's case at least, contested marking... :shh
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Yeah whatever we won a flag with our 2 ruck dinosaurs last year both plenty upside when CCJ and Chol a smashing the door down maybe.
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We also won a flag with Grigg in the ruck....12 months later that was redundant ...just like life, football often comes at you quickly... :shh
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I think the key is to go in with two ruckmen. Right now 2/3 of Soldo, Nank and Chol. Depending on the opponent and form of the 3.
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The Tigers opted for only the one frontline ruckman in Ivan Soldo against the Magpies, in part because of the shortened quarters. This allowed Lynch and fellow forward Jack Riewoldt to spend some time in the ruck, a role Lynch said he had enjoyed.
"I was looking forward to it. It was good to get up the ground. Obviously, down forward you can be starved of opportunities at times and running around in the middle you can get amongst the footy," he said.
"I enjoyed it and I suppose I will have to do a little bit of it with Jack if we are not playing two ruckmen."
Source: The Age (https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/tiger-lynch-dismisses-ankle-concerns-will-face-hawks-20200616-p55305.html)
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I'm not watching another game until Dimma and his stupid match committee play 2 recognized ruckman.
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Lol. You reckon Soldo would have made a difference today?
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We got bigger problems then the ruck tho,but still I cannot understand why we went away from something that we won our flag with.
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If you people think kamdyn or broad as ruckman is working your deluded. Spare me
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Chol or CCJ . not Slomo.... :shh
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Id go both chol and the hyphen.
Soldo is too Slow and Nank a fine contributor but we need to move him on.
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That's what I'm hoping to see eventually but if Nankervis hadn't have played today we would've lost by ten goals not four and a half .. :shh
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I’m not sure why Balta doesn’t get some games into him.
Can pretty much play him anywhere including pinch hitting in the ruck.
I’m not sure why we don’t give him a run of five games and give him some confidence.
We need to see him play now.
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I’m not sure why Balta doesn’t get some games into him.
Can pretty much play him anywhere including pinch hitting in the ruck.
I’m not sure why we don’t give him a run of five games and give him some confidence.
We need to see him play now.
This
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That's what I'm hoping to see eventually but if Nankervis hadn't have played today we would've lost by ten goals not four and a half .. :shh
Absolutely. He was massive last night
And yes to Balta now
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Callum Coleman-Jones, Tom Dow, Patrick Naish and Mabior Chol should all get games now.
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I’m not sure why Balta doesn’t get some games into him.
Can pretty much play him anywhere including pinch hitting in the ruck.
I’m not sure why we don’t give him a run of five games and give him some confidence.
We need to see him play now.
This
Agreed
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Opposition coaches are now planning how to exploit us playing only one recognised ruck and using fill-ins as 2nd ruck. Ratten today admitted they dropped Ryder for Battle due to it.
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Opposition coaches are now planning how to exploit us playing only one recognised ruck and using fill-ins as 2nd ruck. Ratten today admitted they dropped Ryder for Battle due to it.
That's a coaching issue and it hasn't worked . So
many options in that ruck role to choose to.
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we are so slow and unskilled at the moment.
Having Soldo in the team will make things worse.
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Lol at having Lynch, Jack and resting Soldo in the forward line.
How good would the pressure be?!
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Having Nank was clearly better than Soldo with the shorter quarters
Wonder if it's time to give CCJ a shot given that he can apparently take grabs and kick goals.
Elsewise I am all for Balta having a crack on the wing. Might not have the lungs for it all day but he's a lot quicker than Caddy...
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🎥 Ivan Maric and Richo take a look at the Tigers' ruck department in this week's Coaches Corner.
https://www.richmondfc.com.au/video/735565/coaches-corner-round-4
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I rest my case.
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Spot on end of story dominated one of the best ruckman.
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Matthew Lloyd yesterday said we can't play both Nank & Soldo together again. It has to be one of them plus the more mobile Chol as second ruck.
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Agree with Lloyd.
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I agree with Matthew surprisingly but you can't have one ruckman and when every time he rests you lose the centre clearance and get scored against which happened against the Saints.
Nank & Chol best combo but Soldo is an OK gap filler while Nank is out of action.
We probably need to trade one ruckman to allow the progression of CCJ. But not Nank.
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One pure ruck and one part time one who is mobile game changed since 2019 when we we're playing 2 pure rucks.
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2020 1st ruck stats so far:
G D RC HO HOW% HOA% C
Toby Nankervis 3 12 39.0 17 43.6 27.5 3.0
Ivan Soldo 6 7 45.3 23 50.7 25.4 2.3
RC: Ruck Contests Attended HOW%: Hitout Win Percentage HOA%: Hitout to Advantage Rate
Source: Champion Data
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/afl/afl-mid-season-report-who-s-firing-who-s-flopped-20200730-p55h24.html
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Nank is our best ruckman and is also more valuable around the ground. Hit outs are the most overrated stat, if it’s not to your teams advantage what’s the point?
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Nank is our best ruckman and is also more valuable around the ground. Hit outs are the most overrated stat, if it’s not to your teams advantage what’s the point?
Well, at least it probably means that it's not going to the other team's advantage.
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Nank is our best ruckman and is also more valuable around the ground. Hit outs are the most overrated stat, if it’s not to your teams advantage what’s the point?
Well, at least it probably means that it's not going to the other team's advantage.
I don’t even think it’s that. Just think it’s literally being the ruckman who gets his hand onto it. Who it goes to doesn’t matter for that stat which is why I think it’s useless.
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No Tigers in Champion Data's top 10 ruckmen:
1. Max Gawn (Melbourne)
2. Todd Goldstein (North Melbourne)
3. Nic Naitanui (West Coast)
4. Paddy Ryder (St Kilda)
5. Jarrod Witts (Gold Coast)
6. Scott Lycett (Port Adelaide)
7. Marc Pittonet (Carlton)
8. Riley O’Brien (Adelaide)
9. Brodie Grundy (Collingwood)
10. Rowan Marshall (St Kilda)
read: https://www.sen.com.au/news/2020/08/04/the-top-10-ruckmen-in-the-afl-based-on-champion-data-rankings/
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What's old is new again :D. Back to the 2019 premiership couple of Nank & Soldo and they worked well in tandem to nullify NicNat including hitting the scoreboard each.
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I didn’t realise they both kicked a goal!
That’s an awesome return from your two ruckman.
Both not stars by any stretch, but both give a contest and then some.
Our side is built of these types with some out and out stars thrown in.
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From chocolates to boiled lollies in 6 days.
Both our rucks had the least time on ground percentage last night and their efforts/stats show why :P :
Soldo 59% .... 7 disposals @ 29% eff., 16 hitouts, 0 marks, 0 clearances, 0 in50s, 0 tackles, 10m gained
Nank 63% .... 1 disposal @ 0% eff., 16 hitouts, 0 marks, 0 clearances, 0 in50s, 3 tackles, 1m lost
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If there was ever a game to show how you should NOT ruck this is the game to show as a text book on ineffective Ruck craft. :rollin
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Like two Greyhounds stuck in first gear...a pair of slow coaches...The Undynamic Duo... :shh
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They cant play together.
Soldo is a legitimate joke, he cant even dispose of the ball. There was a passage he picked it up and dropped it about 3 or 4 times. He is not an AFL footballer. We'd be better off with Nank and Chol
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Can't play together yet we won the flag with this combination. :banghead.Throw in Chol go missing in games big-time not consistent.
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We won a flag with Grigg in the ruck as well...do you think we should bring him back? :shh
If one possession from Nankervis and zero tackles from Soldo isn't "missing big time", I don't know what is.... :shh :shh
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What abt CCJ or is he injured?
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Been injured for the last couple of months. :shh
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We won a flag with Grigg in the ruck as well...do you think we should bring him back? :shh
If one possession from Nankervis and zero tackles from Soldo isn't "missing big time", I don't know what is.... :shh :shh
Since when is tackles the way to judge a ruckman’s game?
May as well judge Cotch on hit outs. :shh :shh
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An astute observation...as far as you know... :shh
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We won a flag with Grigg in the ruck as well...do you think we should bring him back? :shh
If one possession from Nankervis and zero tackles from Soldo isn't "missing big time", I don't know what is.... :shh :shh
You judge them on one game after Nank coming back from injury and Soldo been taking most of the ruck duties this year finally got help.They were very good against what's claimed one of the best rucks last week.I got no issue if Chol stays in games and doesn't go missing but he does.
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Richmond's ruck share 2012-2020
2012 100% ...... ( i.e. we used a single ruckman all game )
2013 87%
2014 83%
2015 86%
2016 91%
2017 88%
2018 100%
2019 76%
2020 60%
Full analysis of 2nd rucks here: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-17/afl-analysis-how-ruck-strategy-has-evolved/12668180
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Chol is not the answer for me.
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Chol is not the answer for me.
Who else we got?
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Chol is not the answer for me.
Who else we got?
We have a kid known as CCJ
He stuffed up in a massive way so here we are
Few options sadly
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Nank and Dusty
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Chol is not the answer for me.
Who else we got?
Put Broad in there his did it before and training that role with Miller atleast gives as a contest.
[
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You know we just need a chop out in the ruck. And Ben Miller may be able to do it. Ben Miller has been named emergency lately. At 195cm he is undersized but if he can compete for 5 to 7 minutes a quarter then who knows. Could be a rough chance to debut in finals. Chol can do it too. In the end we just need someone who will stand up and play a role.
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You know we just need a chop out in the ruck. And Ben Miller may be able to do it. Ben Miller has been named emergency lately. At 195cm he is undersized but if he can compete for 5 to 7 minutes a quarter then who knows. Could be a rough chance to debut in finals. Chol can do it too. In the end we just need someone who will stand up and play a role.
Yep 100% just give us a contest.
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If Shaun Grigg at 1.9 m Was a semi option what about Broad at 1.92, he has a fair jump?
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If Shaun Grigg at 1.9 m Was a semi option what about Broad at 1.92, he has a fair jump?
Remember the game against Freo last year over in Perth wen Nank went down
Broad did the role exceptionally well
Worth trying again
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If Shaun Grigg at 1.9 m Was a semi option what about Broad at 1.92, he has a fair jump?
Remember the game against Freo last year over in Perth wen Nank went down
Broad did the role exceptionally well
Worth trying again
Spot on and is training there to.
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It depends on a few factors. Like, will Lynch take the ruck responsibilities deep forward? he has played this role at times this year. This allows Nank the ability to have a very shot rest and set up for the outlet kick.
If Caddy keeps his position, will he provide ruck support at times? Broad has done this in the past, who goes out and what position does he play when not assisting with ruck duties?
Many questions but i get the feeling we will go with Nank (he will thrive) and have Lynch or Jack assist deep forward and use a smaller type at times around the ball.
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Broad would allow the flexibility of a plan B if it wasn't working. You don't want to shift Balta from FB but if need be Broad could go back with Astbury & Grimes as 'tall' defenders and Balta could be thrown into the ruck to give Nank the chop out.
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Nankervis can do 75%. Astbury frees balta for the midfield and back ruck contests. Forward of that it's a team effort from 3-4 including jack and tom. We shouldn't play someone just to do 25% of the rucking. So, in - Dion, T Lynch and Bolton. Out Chol (no grunt), Caddy and one of Castagna (how does he get a game), or one other and whoever is stiff - Rioli, McI, Ross, Aarts
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Nankervis can do 75%. Astbury frees balta for the midfield and back ruck contests. Forward of that it's a team effort from 3-4 including jack and tom. We shouldn't play someone just to do 25% of the rucking. So, in - Dion, T Lynch and Bolton. Out Chol (no grunt), Caddy and one of Castagna (how does he get a game), or one other and whoever is stiff - Rioli, McI, Ross, Aarts
Interesting Jammo, I would personally prefer to leave Balta where he is, bring in Lynch, Bolton and maybe Broad.
Would sacrifice Caddy for Prestia but that would create an imbalance IMHO.
Gee Edwards played well last week!!
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Last night showed up Soldo's absence as a massive loss (never thought I'd say that). Chol will be dropped while Nank can't ruck alone when the opposition plays two rucks (beaten by McInerney & Martin over 4 quarters). Thanks CCJ, I hope that kebab was worth it :banghead.
If it's the Dogs next week we may get away with only Nank against Tim English but no way will it work against the Saints' Marshall & Ryder or the following week against Port's Lycett & Ladhams. We desperately need a plan B? Do we experiment with Caddy or Broad or shift Balta upfield? No guarantee either will work anyway :-\.
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(https://media3.giphy.com/media/17lmGSt5tqRVqWMj8K/giphy.gif)
:shh
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Last night showed up Soldo's absence as a massive loss (never thought I'd say that). Chol will be dropped while Nank can't ruck alone when the opposition plays two rucks (beaten by McInerney & Martin over 4 quarters). Thanks CCJ, I hope that kebab was worth it :banghead.
If it's the Dogs next week we may get away with only Nank against Tim English but no way will it work against the Saints' Marshall & Ryder or the following week against Port's Lycett & Ladhams. We desperately need a plan B? Do we experiment with Caddy or Broad or shift Balta upfield? No guarantee either will work anyway :-\.
People underestimate Soldo huge loss our structure hasn't been the same and Chol not even quarter of him as a player.People may laugh he could have been difference between us winning the flag or not.Need to fix the ruck situation up asap.Add CCJ screwing us over people weren't making a big deal won't play etc how wrong we were I'm furious at him.Saints will have a field day if we go with current setup.
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Against Brisbane last night, Nank had just 11 hitouts & Chol 9 :help.
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The Tigers have a big ruck call to make
The Tigers used defender David Astbury as Toby Nankervis' ruck back up against the Saints, which was an easier call given St Kilda's ruck stocks were depleted by the loss of Paddy Ryder. Astbury battled manfully in his stints, but is clearly more at home in the defensive 50. Richmond coach Damien Hardwick and his selection committee have an interesting decision to make next week against Port Adelaide, though. Are Nankervis and Astbury as a pinch-hitter going to be enough against Power duo Scott Lycett and Peter Ladhams? Or will Mabior Chol be brought back to offer more ruck support?
Source: AFL website (https://www.afl.com.au/news/515888/five-things-we-learned-lynch-can-t-stop-the-brain-fades)
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Against Brisbane last night, Nank had just 11 hitouts & Chol 9 :help.
So in other words, Chol only had two less hit outs than Nankervis despite attending less than half as many ruck contests....:shh
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How the Tigers manage their ruck assistance for Toby Nankervis will be fascinating early in the season.
On Friday night Coleman-Jones and Mabior Chol split the duties, while Noah Balta also pinch-hit in the role. It is one of the few questions the Tigers have to work out ahead of the start of the season.
Source: AFL website (https://www.afl.com.au/news/556494/tigers-hang-on-in-a-thriller-pies-sweat-on-injuries)
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Tigers ponder ruck format
Richmond are yet to settle on their structure in the ruck department heading into the new season’s start.
With 2019 premiership ruckman Ivan Soldo likely to be sidelined for most of the season following a total knee reconstruction, the Tigers are yet to settle on their structure in the ruck department.
“We’re still trying to figure out what that (the ruck format) looks like for us,” Richmond coach Damien Hardwick said following the match.
“Toby was very good in the first half. I thought ‘Marbs’ (Mabior Chol) was really good when he went in there. Noah (Balta) and Dave (Astbury) pinch hit at various stages as well.
“So, we’ve just got to figure out how that works.
“We went one way at the start of last year, and then another way towards the back end of last year.
“It might be horses for courses. We’ve been that way before.
“We’ve got some development stocks in our rucks, so we’ll continue to invest in those guys as well.”
https://www.richmondfc.com.au/news/876367/tigers-ponder-ruck-format
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I still think Nank rucking solo is the best fit for our team. Just needs a chop out every now and then which balta can do.
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Not sure a return to 20 min quarters, 22 rounds and the reduced interchanges will do do Nank any favours as a solo ruck.. :shh
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Not sure a return to 20 min quarters, 22 rounds and the reduced interchanges will do do Nank any favours as a solo ruck.. :shh
Agree .. need him fresh for another big September
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Not sure a return to 20 min quarters, 22 rounds and the reduced interchanges will do do Nank any favours as a solo ruck.. :shh
Agree .. need him fresh for another big September
Fair point there. Can give him a rest every now and then. I was just more saying in terms of our best 22 come crunch time. Nank was immense solo rucking in the finals last year, back to his 2017-2018 form.
I’m hoping CCJ can develop into a second option though.
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It was only one bad day from Nank but will we need to go back to 2019 and play two rucks going forward?
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Ryan is performing well in the twos.
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Whilst Balta looks good on ball, we can’t have him missing from defence on days like this. Another marking talk around the ground wouldn’t hurt us at all.
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Whilst Balta looks good on ball, we can’t have him missing from defence on days like this. Another marking talk around the ground wouldn’t hurt us at all.
Yes- Balta and Asbury had a few mix ups today changing from back to ruck. Would like to look at another relief ruck so we can leave Balta back full time.
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We need another three Baltas...... :shh
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Missing Soldo. It's hard for Nank doing it alone.
I thought Grimes struggled with Balta and Astbury moving out of defence to relieve Nank. Like he was forgetting who was where and when to mark his man vs roll off etc
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Ryan is performing well in the twos.
Samson is our only available genuine ruck option at the minute with Soldo injured and CCJ still banned. Chol is unreliable and not a genuine ruckman anyway.
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Missing Soldo. It's hard for Nank doing it alone.
I thought Grimes struggled with Balta and Astbury moving out of defence to relieve Nank. Like he was forgetting who was where and when to mark his man vs roll off etc
No Vlaustin doesn’t help the defensive structure.
Also having no pressure on the ball carrier when they are slicing and dicing inside fifty to an unmarked Hickey is embarrassing.
Also when a team somehow makes Reid look like a good player you know something is going terribly wrong :rollin
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Balta as second Ruck, and play him as a ruck forward with his booming kick. Bring Rance back in for FB :shh
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. Bring Rance back in for FB :shh
Time to unleash Biggie... :shh :shh
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Wait one more week and then unleash CCJ
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I reckon CCJ and Ryan will get games this year. Ryan as a mobile ruck iscan interesting option leaving Balta down back.
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Balta as second Ruck, and play him as a ruck forward with his booming kick. Bring Rance back in for FB :shh
:clapping
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32 degrees we needed to use Nank a bit better. Although Hickey didn't seem to be concerned with the heat.
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Seeing Pickett in there is getting me upset when we got support in CCJ and we are ignoring it.Tall timber is breaking teams down this year and we played that system when Soldo was available what's the problem we're dieing for another tall target and change in our forward 50.
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Me thinks Hardwick wants CCJ to earn it after his nighttime shenanigans could’ve potentially stuffed up our whole season.
I think the Pickett experiment was ok but it’s not the answer.
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Using the AFL Player Ratings points won by each team’s ruckman at every stage throughout matches in 2021:
(https://content.api.news/v3/images/bin/4c07fd699791e5e2c6545759455c6c9f?width=768)
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/teams/west-coast-eagles/afl-2021-nic-naitanui-analysis-champion-index-stats-champion-data-west-coast-eagles-afls-best-ruckman/news-story/5317820293f0b1058766a17fb178f7dc
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We still have no idea whatever to see what our best ruck combination is because we steadfastly refuse to play a second ruck or even fwd/ruck.
Going on what we have played the only answer you can come up with is Nankervis and Soldo.
Why arent we playing another tall fella to help not only Nankervis but JR and TL we have a young fella who addresses both those needs.
It really must be getting close to the point where CC-J will ask for a trade at years end.
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Chol & Nankervis...in that order.... :shh
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Second ruck delivers big time
Richmond has previously opted to run with a rag-tag combination of 184cm midfielder Marlion Pickett and key back David Astbury as its second ruck. The pair missed the win against Adelaide due to suspension and Achilles soreness respectively (along with Tom Lynch's knee injury), leading to the inclusion of Mabior Chol and Callum Coleman-Jones. Chol added a new dimension to the ruck and patched up those midfield lapses that had occurred when Pickett or Astbury attended centre bounces.
Source: AFL website (https://www.afl.com.au/news/623318/riewoldt-to-the-rescue-star-forward-saves-tigers-season)
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Dimma was asked post-match how he saw the two rucks working out?
* Thought it was good. Mabs has been playing that role at VFL level and CJ has been helping out with that also. I thought it was positive for us. All those guys kicked goals today. That's the important thing. Getting players that can second ruck and kick goals. A real positive for us. Once again you look at CJ kicking 4 goals and Chol hitting the scoreboard a couple of times as a real positive today.
Source: RFC website (https://www.richmondfc.com.au/video/948851/round-11-hardwick-post-match)
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Richmond need more options in the ruck
Lachlan Mitchell
theRoar.com.au
7 June 2021
Richmond went into the game playing just the two big men in Mabior Chol and Callum Coleman-Jones. Coleman-Jones predominantly played the big man up forward without injured star Tom Lynch.
Chol was in control of the ball early, dominating hit outs and having 19 touches and five intercept marks for the game.
Coleman-Jones was more of a chop-out ruckman throughout the game but was sparingly used throughout the game as the ball drifted forward and the likes of Jack Riewoldt, Jason Castagna and Jack Graham were sharking any ball.
Richmond have had a habit of using a smaller more agile midfielder to fill the spot of the second ruckman at centre bounces.
Shaun Grigg was the prime example used in Richmond’s breakthrough 2017 premiership win. Marlion Pickett was used in Saturday night’s game when Chol was rotated off the ground as the second ruckman.
The game heavily favoured Essendon through those parts of the game with Parish, Zach Merrett and Dyson Heppell getting first use of the ball.
Andrew Phillips dominated the ruck tap outs and Essendon dominated contested ball and centre clearances with them beginning to swing back the momentum and clawing back a 30-point lead.
Richmond’s premier ruckman Toby Nankervis is set to spend a number of weeks on the sidelines and Ivan Soldo is not expected to return in season 2021.
A second ruckman with a key forward like a Coleman-Jones would give the Tigers an extra string to their bow.
Samson Ryan at 206 centimetres has left Melbourne and was on an extended list on the flight to Perth.
Although he is yet to make his debut, Ryan could provide the second alternative in the ruck to Chol with Nankervis’ extended injury absence.
https://www.theroar.com.au/2021/06/07/richmond-need-more-options-in-the-ruck/
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Dimma, can we put the Pickett experiment to bed and use rucks to ruck at centrebounces. Throwing Pickett in there just allowed West Coast to use a non-ruck as well which allowed NicNat to rest up during the game and only have to contend with Mabs.
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Has anyone at the club actually told Hardwick that CCJ is a ruckman yet? :shh
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Missed Soldo on a night like tonight.
Really need him for blokes like NicNat.
Chol got smashed, just like we all knew he would. And CCJ rucking > Pickett is laughable.
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Got a bit lazy marking him in the forward line at times and obviously NicNat was the clear winner but all things considered thought Chol did a lot better against him than expected... :shh.
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He did some nice things and generally competed well but he was smashed at the end of the day.
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Has anyone at the club actually told Hardwick that CCJ is a ruckman yet? :shh
I :shh would :shh assume :shh he :shh knows :shh what :shh CCJ :shh can :shh and :shh can’t :shh do :shh
Reckon :shh Hardwick :shh knows :shh better :shh than :shh you :shh
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#bigfootytierdebating :shh
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Jonathan Brown, based on last night's game, reckons our search this year for a 3rd tall/2nd ruck has now been found. The talk out of the Club has been wanting to play 3 tall forwards with CCJ supporting Jack & Lynch. Last showed if Chol can hold up his form then he can play that 3rd tall/2nd ruck role instead supporting Nank in the middle.
The next question is where does that leave CCJ?
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Jonathan Brown, based on last night's game, reckons our search this year for a 3rd tall/2nd ruck has now been found. The talk out of the Club has been wanting to play 3 tall forwards with CCJ supporting Jack & Lynch. Last showed if Chol can hold up his form then he can play that 3rd tall/2nd ruck role instead supporting Nank in the middle.
The next question is where does that leave CCJ?
Fodder for Green trade.
Would CJ + our first round pick (now #12) be OK?
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Jonathan Brown, based on last night's game, reckons our search this year for a 3rd tall/2nd ruck has now been found. The talk out of the Club has been wanting to play 3 tall forwards with CCJ supporting Jack & Lynch. Last showed if Chol can hold up his form then he can play that 3rd tall/2nd ruck role instead supporting Nank in the middle.
The next question is where does that leave CCJ?
Fodder for Green trade.
Would CJ + our first round pick (now #12) be OK?
Do you work for GWS?
CCJ and our second rounder(pick #40) would do it, no more
Edit: Fixed quoting
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Jonathan Brown, based on last night's game, reckons our search this year for a 3rd tall/2nd ruck has now been found. The talk out of the Club has been wanting to play 3 tall forwards with CCJ supporting Jack & Lynch. Last showed if Chol can hold up his form then he can play that 3rd tall/2nd ruck role instead supporting Nank in the middle.
The next question is where does that leave CCJ?
Fodder for Green trade.
Would CJ + our first round pick (now #12) be OK?
Do you work for GWS?
CCJ and our second rounder(pick #40) would do it, no more
Edit: Fixed quoting
Take ya yandb glasses off.
CJ has played 1 good game, against Adelaide of all teams, and at this stage isn't worth much despite the hype.
Green was pick 10 18m ago and has shown plenty of ability.
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Bow down to the new supreme ruck combo… CHONKERVIS!!!
:bow
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Chankervis was pretty amazing. I fear Chol will get toweled against Geelong though
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Chankervis was pretty amazing. I fear Chol will get toweled against Geelong though
Against who? Stanley? Ratugolea?
Not the best rucks those two just ask any Geelong fan. :rollin
We already know IF we are able to bring pressure on ball carrier these precise controlled possession teams are suspect and the game plan always crumbles under constant pressure.
If this season has taught us anything it’s that anyone can beat anyone.
…that said I’m not confident Chol can string two good games together. :rollin
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Chol has all the tools to make an impact each week, he’s just too inconsistent. Unfortunately I don’t think we are in the position to not offer him a contract with our ruck situation
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1 vs 1 I don’t actually think Chol can go against Stanley. My concern with Chol is general play. He seems to struggle to stay involved. If we get a mismatch and he’s 1vs1 against Henderson he might kick a bag though!
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Leigh Matthews is adamant that the second ruck role has long been “underrated” and that having a good one can go a long way to winning games of football.
This comes after the AFL legend witnessed Richmond’s Mabior Chol tear up the Lions at Metricon Stadium last Friday with four goals, 12 hit-outs and 10 disposals as the second ruckman.
“This hit me watching the Lions play Richmond on Friday night,” Matthews told Sportsday.
“Mabior Chol was the second ruckman for Richmond and he kicked four goals and jumped well as the second ruck.
“It just hit me how important that role is.
“(Mark) Blicavs, (Rowan) Marshall, (Tim) English, (Jonathon) Ceglar - they’re not great first ruckmen, but because they can be goalkickers and flexible as Blicavs is, they are really valuable players to back up whoever the main ruckman is.”
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2021/07/21/matthews-highlights-an-underrated-position-in-football/
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The thing that bugs me the most is when ruckman go up unopposed and hit it straight to opposition mids. Chol does that often. Hopefully can see that disappear from his game the more experience he gets.
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Asked about Soldo, Balme replied we're "aiming for two rucks [by finals time] but we're taking it week by week".
Go to 8:00 min mark: https://player.whooshkaa.com/episode?id=1010163
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Dimma in his presser today said we want Nank to take about 80% of the ruck workload. So, it's the remaining 20 to 25% (sic) we need to fill in as 2nd ruck. Dimma added that whether we play a ruck-back (Miller) or a ruck-forward (Ryan) will be horses for courses depending on how we can threaten the opposition. No mention of Soldo by the way.
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Ruckman Toby Nankervis dominated Carlton's Tom De Koning first-up but faces a sterner test against Adelaide big man Reilly O'Brien.
The Tigers opted for defender Ben Miller as a pinch-hitter but could also turn to ruck-forward Samson Ryan at the Adelaide Oval.
"It's one we're still trying to work our way through," Hardwick said.
"So it might just be horses for courses. Sometimes we might go with the ruck-back philosophy, sometimes we might go with the ruck-forward philosophy.
"We've just got to figure out what works for us, but also, what's a bit dangerous for the opposition as well. So that will change probably from week to week."
"We really like Toby in the ruck for 80 per cent of the time. So we're just trying to find that 20 to 25 per cent for that secondary ruckman."
Source: AFL website (https://www.afl.com.au/news/887148/hardwick-turns-to-old-mate-for-tips-on-beating-crows)
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Pretty simple really.
Adelaide have the potential to play basically four big fwds. Walker, Fogarty and Himmelberg played last week and after what Melbourne did to us preseason you can just see sides going with a fwd ruck as well. Riley Thilthorpe probably will play as that second ruck/fwd.
If Thats the case logic would suggest we play Miller as a defender and Ryan plays as the third tall fwd/second ruck.
The real advantage of playing Ryan is Adelaide do not have a real tall backline and Ryan would certainly give us the opportunity to stretch them
and probably keep Thilthorpe occupied.
It is not that hard to figure out whats a bit dangerous for the opposition as well as working out what will work best for us..
This game McIntosh's job imo should be to totally shut Jordan Dawson out of the game by hook or by crook.
Cumberland will need to be looked after by one of their small defenders and Sonsie provides a bit of badly needed polish.
None of it will happen that would mean some lets call it tougher decisions would need to be made on favorites.
Nope better to keep the favorites and to hell with the better structure pace and polish.
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Hitouts To Advantage % rank in the AFL:
RC HO HTA HTA%
2. Samson Ryan 198 95 41 43.2
3. Ivan Soldo 42 14 6 42.9
5. Ben Miller 149 50 20 40.0
45. Toby Nankervis 294 148 41 27.7
RC - total number of ruck contests.
HO - total number of hitouts.
HTA - total number of hitouts to advantage.
HTA% - percentage of hitouts that reach an intended teammate.
https://www.afl.com.au/stats/leaders?category=Stoppages&seasonId=52&roundId=-1&roundNumber=0&sortColumn=hitoutToAdvantageRate&sortDirection=descending&positions=Ruck&teams=All&benchmarking=false&dataType=totals&playerOneId=null&playerTwoId=null
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Its a long time since I have seen a Tiger ruckman hitting it down our players throats like he did last week. Enjoyed it very much.
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Obviously they have rucked against different opposition (Soldo vs Witts only for example) but this clearly shows Ryan is a solid ruck and Nank has been very poor.
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I wish they would also include HO% to disadvantage. I know not all the blame can be set on the rucks when they tap it to the oppo as you have to make the mids accountable to some extent but there are times (soldo especially) where I see them tap unopposed straight to the other team and it infuriates me.
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Tigers’ burning question: Can they play two specialists rucks in the same team?
There was in their 2019 premiership, but not recently. However after Ivan Soldo’s impressive return game against West Coast on Sunday, the Tigers might have to revisit the tactic. In the absence of suspended co-captain Toby Nankervis, Soldo was terrific against the Eagles as he put the footy on a platter for his midfielders at stoppages in just his second AFL game of the season. Soldo kicked 1.1 from 11 disposals, seven score involvements, five tackles, five marks and four clearances, while 12 of his 41 hit-outs were to the advantage of a teammate. Nankervis will be eligible for selection again in Round 21 as the Tigers continue their unlikely late-season surge. Fox Footy’s Leigh Montagna told First Crack: “There’s still something left in the Tigers this season.”
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-news-2023-the-blowtorch-round-19-preview-every-clubs-burning-question-fox-footy-commentators-tv-broadcast-details/news-story/157480de5607a0c1b2f95cb071016644
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Nankervis with Ryan as third tall second ruck while he is still developing.
I would have no problem if we traded Soldo out.
This week with injuries and suspension id like to see Soldo as first ruck one of Bradtke or Nyuon as kpd with riewoldt and Ryan as the third tall fwd giving ruck support.
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Who partners Nank in round 1?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GDCx9hWasAA-w8w?format=jpg&name=small)
https://twitter.com/Tigers_of_Old/status/1743088815957496166
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If Yze is thinking long term, then he'll go with Samson unless the latter is struggling with form and/or not progressing in his development.
See Naismith as more a back-up for Nank's 1st ruck role as, aside from 2022, Nank hasn't played more than 16 games in a season since 2019.
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I agree, and they should develop as a forward option, will better when Lynch is next to him ,
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(https://resources.afl.com.au/photo-resources/2020/11/17/8a4c2df0-2497-41a0-85ac-8cab8feed48a/richmond.jpg?width=1511)
When it comes to Plan B ruckmen, Sam Naismith is clearly the most interesting story. The 31-year-old has played only two games at AFL level since 2017 – both in 2020 – following a nightmare injury run at Sydney that included three knee reconstruction and more than a dozen other operations. But after proving his body can stand up to the rigours of state league football at Port Melbourne in 2023, Naismith secured a second shot at Richmond as a delisted free agent last November. Toby Nankervis left Sydney for Richmond for greater opportunity after Naismith's emergence and has become not only a three-time premiership player, but club captain. Now he will have to deal with Naismith breathing down his neck. After losing Ivan Soldo to Port Adelaide, Adem Yze has a strong back-up option in Naismith in 2024.
https://www.afl.com.au/news/1073587/plan-b-who-is-the-back-up-ruck-option-at-your-club
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Ivan Maric gives an update on how the rucks are tracking heading into the 2024 season...
Watch here: https://twitter.com/Richmond_FC/status/1755021303789068715
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Tiger rucks hard at work
Richmond ruck coach Ivan Maric is impressed by the discipline the Tigers' ruckmen have displayed in the lead up to the 2024 season.
Speaking on Richmond Media's Our Four Walls, Maric said the group had attacked the pre-season with vigour, while showing "humility and care for each other as well".
"Things like being the first in the Club, first out to the track, first in the gym and last one out," Maric said.
"Just doing all the little extra things really well, as well as preparing professionally.
"It's been good, it's been super competitive. But, every time we compete on the training track, we make sure we come together and get another each other and celebrate and give feedback to one another.
"I'm really proud of the guys, they've created that by themselves, it's really good.
"I'm looking forward to the times when they're going to get challenged (in 2024) and go through adversity and how they stand up as strong men on and off the field."
Maric also provided an update on the members of the Tigers' ruck department.
"Toby Nankervis' going good. We've been really cautious and sensible with him and eased him into training. He's back full training which is exciting, He's fit and ready to go."
"Sam Naismith's going really good, he's been able to get his body in really good shape. He's training hard and backing up session after session, so it's been exciting. He's a big, athletic guy and he's enthusiastic about his opportunity."
"I think he debuted against me, so he's been around for a while. He's got plenty of experience and he's been through a hell of a lot. So, he's really resilient and we're really excited that he's at the Richmond Football Club because he's going to add a lot, and he already has added a lot, to the team and the culture."
"Samson Ryan earned a lot of trust last year, it was great. I always believed he had that in him, and I believe he has so much more to show the whole football world. I'm really excited about his season coming up. He's put on a bit more bulk which is going to be good for him, and he's really working hard. He's such a professional when it comes to preparing for training and playing."
"Mate Colina is training really well. His running is something I've never seen before from a guy that big, or any ruckman really. He's working really hard on his craft, his marking and his kicking which still has plenty of room for growth, but he's going good... Being such a big guy, he'll be really good in the ruck, but his running power is just incredible, so it's going to be quite hard for opposition players to keep up with him.
"Oliver Hayes-Brown has worked really hard, just like Mate. We've got a good group of rucks with high standards, so they're really pushing each other along, and Ollie's done that. He's trimmed down, he's running a lot better, working on his craft, his marking and his kicking, spending a heap of time on that. His pre-season has gone really well."
https://www.richmondfc.com.au/news/1488594/tiger-rucks-hard-at-work
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The Tigers played Melbourne in a scratch match on Sunday afternoon and Cornes’ “gentle” takeaway from the early look at both teams centres around the importance of Toby Nankervis to Richmond in 2024.
The skipper missed the match with foot soreness, but is considered likely to play in Opening Round.
“In nine seasons (Nankervis) has played 20 games just three times and 15 last year. Samson Ryan is a likely type, but he’s not ready to be their number one ruck just yet,” Cornes said.
“We saw that yesterday when Melbourne kicked the first five, Max Gawn dominated at the centre bounce and also went forward and tested him there.
“Ryan’s just not ready to ruck. I know they’ve got Sam Naismith, not sure he’s the option either. So the availability of Nankervis as captain and as a ruckman is really significant for the Tigers.”
Ryan, 23, has played 15 career games for Richmond – 14 of which came in 2023.
He averaged seven disposals, 12.2 hit-outs and 1.1 clearances per game.
Naismith was picked up out of the VFL, following a strong season at Port Melbourne. The 31-year-old struggled with injuries during his time at Sydney, managing just 30 games.
Source: SEN (https://www.sen.com.au/news/2024/02/18/richmond-star-capable-of-becoming-best-player-in-the-game-in-2024).
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I think they will roll with Nank and Naismith for round 0 (I feel stupid even typing that). Once Lynch comes back (touch wood), it will be very interesting who they name as a 3 pronged fwd line with Lynch, Balta, Kosi and 2 rucks in Naismith and Nank seems too tall and immobile. Feel like either nank or Naismith will miss out and balta will give the ruck a chop out or balta will move back into defence.
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I think they will roll with Nank and Naismith for Gold Coast. Once Lynch comes back (touch wood), it will be very interesting who they name as a 3 pronged fwd line with Lynch, Balta, Kosi and 2 rucks in Naismith and Nank seems too tall and immobile. Feel like either nank or Naismith will miss out and balta will give the ruck a chop out or balta will move back into defence.
Fixed. :cheers
It was mentioned by Teague on SEN that Balta and Kosi will be pinch hitting in the ruck so once Lynch comes back into the team, Naismith will make way for him and that duo will give Nank a chop out.
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Focusing on the wrong player WHEN TALKING BEST RUCK COMBO. Samson Ryan well well he won't be playing first ruck this year thats how far he still has to go and you have to wonder if its not a bridge too far.
I reckon the debate should be about the genuine first ruck contenders and who should get the gig in Naismith and Nankervis. It won't happen because the club supporters everyone is going to back in the club captain.
I think as a ruckman who can play on all types of ruckmen Naismith is a better fit.
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'He’ll deserve it': Injury-plagued Tiger firms for season opener
After an exceptional first pre-season at Richmond, Sam Naismith is on track to complete an unlikely AFL return 1354 days after his most recent appearance
By Josh Gabelich
afl.com.au
24 February 2024
RICHMOND recruit Sam Naismith is in the frame to play his first AFL game since 2020 – and only third since 2017 – in the Tigers' Opening Round clash against Gold Coast, completing a remarkable turnaround for an injury-cruelled career that looked all but over two years ago.
The Tigers signed Naismith as a delisted free agent at the start of November – after granting Ivan Soldo's trade wish to Port Adelaide – following a standout VFL campaign for Port Melbourne that breathed life back into his AFL career.
Naismith's time at the highest level looked over when the New South Welshmen was delisted by Sydney at the end of 2022 after playing 30 games across nine injury-ravaged seasons that included three knee reconstructions and more than a dozen other operations.
But after banking an exceptional maiden pre-season at Punt Road and impressing first-up against six-time All-Australian ruckman Max Gawn in Sunday's match simulation against Melbourne at Casey Fields, the 31-year-old has built a compelling case for an unlikely AFL return on March 9, 1354 days after his most recent appearance.
With Tigers skipper Toby Nankervis racing the clock to be fit in time for the trip to Queensland, the 31-year-old's call-up looks even more likely.
New Richmond coach Adem Yze has been thrilled by Naismith's pre-season to date and expects the former Swan to force the Tigers' match committee to make some difficult decisions in 2024.
"He had a great year at VFL level, so he deserved this opportunity. Getting him into the footy club, he knew at the start he was going to be a back-up, because we needed some support for 'Nank' just in case. But he has come in and trained the house down. Right now, he has thrown his hand up to be our first ruck in (Opening Round), which is awesome," Yze told AFL.com.au.
"There is the footy element, where he is a great player and a great guy to have around the club, great runner and powerful man, with really strong ruck craft. But his character is what stood out when I first met him and we spoke about getting him across.
"He has obviously been through a lot as a kid and with his family and then his knees. He has had all this adversity, but you wouldn't know; he is always asking about other people and making sure everyone else is OK. That type of character is exactly what we want at our footy club.
"I'll be really excited for him to make his debut for this footy club, because he will deserve it. We're not just going to give him a game – we've got Samson Ryan who is another good back-up to 'Nank' – but when he gets his chance he will deserve it. Sam will play again next week against Collingwood and who knows for the Gold Coast game?"
Nankervis didn't feature in Sunday's match simulation and won't face Collingwood in the AAMI Community Series match at Ikon Park next Tuesday night due to a lingering foot issue that has restricted his pre-season over the past month.
With 13 days between now and the first meeting between Damien Hardwick and the side he led to three premierships, Richmond is hopeful Nankervis will be available but will also need to factor in the five-day break between Opening Round and the Tigers' round one clash against Carlton.
Nankervis has proven to be one of the most shrewd recruits in Richmond's history, becoming a three-time premiership player and captain since moving from Sydney – where he was stuck in the queue behind Naismith – in exchange for pick No.46 in 2016.
After sharing the captaincy with veteran defender Dylan Grimes in 2022 and 2023, Nankervis was appointed sole skipper in December in one of Yze's first key moves, solidifying the ruckman's standing in the group following the retirements of club greats Trent Cotchin and Jack Riewoldt.
Yze is open to playing two ruckmen in the same 23 this year, but with key defender Noah Balta being transformed into a key forward over the summer and All-Australian forward Tom Lynch on the cusp of returning, the first-year coach is wary of not picking a team that is too tall.
https://www.afl.com.au/news/1078806/he-will-deserve-it-injury-plagued-richmond-tiger-sam-naismith-closing-in-on-remarkable-comeback
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Richmond skipper provides latest on playing chances for season opener
The veteran ruckman won’t feature in this week’s practice match against the reigning premiers.
Mitch Keating
zerohanger.com
February 26, 2024
Richmond captain Toby Nankervis is no certainty of lining up for the Tigers' Opening Round clash with Gold Coast as he continues to nurse a foot issue.
Nankervis won't feature in Tuesday's Charity Shield practice match against Collingwood on Tuesday and will instead take part in a separate training session that will help give the veteran ruckman a stronger indication of his playing chances for next week.
The 29-year-old is currently going from session to session in his rehabilitation to build his fitness levels and overcome the ailment - one that has now opened the door for new recruit and ex-Swan Sam Naismith to earn his debut in the yellow and black.
Naismith has played just two games at AFL level since the end of the 2017 season, enduring multiple knee reconstructions and a delisting at Sydney to fall out of the top flight before earning a lifeline over the off-season at Punt Road.
Viewed as the second-string ruckman for new coach Adem Yze, Naismith has been backed to take his chance and potentially hold it by the man he's likely to replace.
"He's had a great summer," Nankervis said on Monday.
"He's done most of the work so, we're in a great spot in that department. (If he plays) I'll be rapt for Sam, he's a great person and he's had some hardship, but he's been playing some great footy as well.
"I wasn't really surprised at all (by Naismith's resilience) to be honest because I know what type of person he is. He's very determined, very competitive and he wants to play AFL footy. That's that's the reality of it, he's not here to play VFL footy so he's doing whatever he can."
The Tigers are yet to settle on whether they'll implement a one or two-ruck system this year after chopping and changing with the departed Ivan Soldo in 2023, with emerging ruck-forward Samson Ryan also in the selection mix.
With Nankervis an incumbent in his first season as a standalone skipper, the trio of ruck options is creating healthy competition under Yze ahead of the season's start.
Speaking on Ryan, Nankervis said the 23-year-old has put his best foot forward over the summer to keep himself in the mix.
"He's taken massive leaps forward this pre-season," the Richmond captain said.
"He's a key position player, so it does take time to get your body big enough to play ruck and key forward positions.
"I feel like he's in that space now where he's moving really well. He's big and strong. So I look forward to seeing what he can do as well."
https://www.zerohanger.com/richmond-skipper-provides-latest-on-playing-chances-for-season-opener-147818
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Lol team mates talking up team mates. Ryan still being pushed around like a rookie by everyone.
KPF geez i must be missing something. From what ive seen this year so far on the back of what we saw last year i have grave fears of Ryan making it. He is nowhere near close to playing first ruck or KPF for us.
We talk about slow burns then all i can say is someone needs to shorten the fuse.
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Lol team mates talking up team mates. Ryan still being pushed around like a rookie by everyone.
KPF geez i must be missing something. From what ive seen this year so far on the back of what we saw last year i have grave fears of Ryan making it. He is nowhere near close to playing first ruck or KPF for us.
We talk about slow burns then all i can say is someone needs to shorten the fuse.
Surely even you understand the big fellas take longer than midfielders to develop
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Lol team mates talking up team mates. Ryan still being pushed around like a rookie by everyone.
KPF geez i must be missing something. From what ive seen this year so far on the back of what we saw last year i have grave fears of Ryan making it. He is nowhere near close to playing first ruck or KPF for us.
We talk about slow burns then all i can say is someone needs to shorten the fuse.
Surely even you understand the big fellas take longer than midfielders to develop
Surely even you understand there is a thing called linear improvement but clearly not!!!!!.
Don't talk to me about patience with big blokes im more patient than most. He has made no improvement in the areas that will enable him to succeed we are not talking about a junior here he is already 23 and he still cannot hold his ground against much smaller opponents.
If asking for linear improvement in areas that just have to improve is too much for you to grasp then indeed i suggest you continue to come up with the big blokes take time line.
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And the New season has even started.