One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => View from the Outer => Topic started by: Chuck17 on September 21, 2022, 08:46:47 AM
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Some serious poo going down here
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-09-21/alastair-clarkson-and-chris-fagan-named-in-hawks-review/101452320
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WOW 😮
Wonder who “Ian” is ???
Shocking if true .. just horrible :banghead :banghead :'( :'(
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Some snippets from the article
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-09-21/alastair-clarkson-and-chris-fagan-named-in-hawks-review/101452320
An external review commissioned by the Hawthorn Football Club will reveal allegations that key figures at the AFL club demanded the separation of young First Nations players from their partners, and pressured one couple to terminate a pregnancy for the sake of the player's career.
In some cases, coaches allegedly coerced at least two players to remove SIM cards from their phones and insert new ones in attempts to cut them off from their partners and focus them entirely on the club's pursuit of football success. In each case, the player was a young First Nations draftee in his first five years with the club.
"It was so intimidating, confusing and upsetting," Ian says.
"Clarkson just leaned over me and demanded that I needed to get rid of my unborn child and my partner. I was then manipulated and convinced to remove my SIM card from my phone, so there was no further contact between my family and me. They told me I’d be living with one of the other coaches from that night onwards.
He felt he had no choice. "He told me to kill my unborn kid."
It started when Zac was pulled into a meeting with Clarkson, Fagan and Jason Burt. Zac says he was told that Kylie was holding him back from progressing his career and that he needed to end the relationship to fulfil his potential.
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Have read the article
WOW, talk about damning!
Will be watching with interest what Hawthorn, the AFL but also N0rt and Brisbane do.
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Lot of water to go under the bridge yet, but Clarkson's tenure at North is looking shot
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Fagan gone as reported by Herald Sun and now changed to taking a leave of absence ..
Surely Clarkson to follow
Great time to be a Kangas fan
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https://www.afl.com.au/news/847638/lions-coach-fagan-stands-down-after-hawks-racism-allegations
Brisbane coach Chris Fagan will take a leave of absence to co-operate with an AFL investigation into allegations about the treatment of Indigenous players at Hawthorn
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This is brutal. Can't believe that this sort of stuff is still happening.
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Andy Maher on SEN just said 7news is reporting that Clarkson won't start at North Melbourne until the end of the investigation.
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Has anybody heard from Jeff Kennett about this? Err ... no ...
Of course not, he only pots other clubs when they have troubles ... :P
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Just as an aside, wtf is "natural justice?" What's wrong with just ... justice?
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Alastair Clarkson "shocked" and denies any wrongdoing in statement on racism claims.
In a statement released by his management on Wednesday afternoon:
The health, care and welfare of our players, staff and their families were always my highest priorities during my time at Hawthorn Football Club.
I was therefore shocked by the extremely serious allegations reported in the media earlier today. I was not interviewed by the authors of the report commissioned by the Club, and nor have I been provided with a copy of the report.
I was not afforded any due process and I refute any allegation of wrongdoing or misconduct and look forward to the opportunity to be heard as part of the AFL external investigation.
I have today contacted the President of North Melbourne Football Club and we have mutually agreed that I will step back from my responsibilities at the Club so I can fully cooperate in the investigation.
As the matters are now subject to an investigation, I will not make any further comment at this stage.
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/09/21/clarkson-shocked-and-denies-any-wrongdoing-in-statement-on-racism-claims/
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North Melbourne club statement:
The North Melbourne Football Club is aware of serious historical allegations made against individuals who worked at the Hawthorn Football Club, including incoming North Melbourne coach Alastair Clarkson.
The matters raised are now with the AFL's Integrity Unit and Alastair welcomes the opportunity to co-operate with any investigation relating to the claims.
Alastair was due to commence work with North Melbourne on November 1 however he will delay the start of his tenure to allow time to fully participate in the investigation.
Given the matters raised are confidential and the investigation is ongoing, the club will not provide any further comment at this time.
https://www.nmfc.com.au/news/1225958/
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Jabba and Caro must be loving this story. Let’s wait until we see the facts…
Story doesn’t seem great, but it’s from one side. Let’s not throw the chop sticks out with the baby just yet.
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Jabba and Caro must be loving this story. Let’s wait until we see the facts…
Story doesn’t seem great, but it’s from one side. Let’s not throw the chop sticks out with the baby just yet.
What I find poor on Hawthorn's part is as part of their review they didn't bother to speak to either Clarkson or Fagan. Surely, they should have been spoken to?
Obviously, HQ's Integrity Unit will but they should have been spoken to in the first instance
And BTW where's Jeff Kennett? Why didn't he fade the media today
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Have done some more research and read a few more pieces on this by commentators I respect
Can now understand why Hawthorn didn't include Clarkson and Fagan in their internal review
But as part of the AFL's investigation they must ensure all parties are treated the same and fairly without any preconceived opinions.
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Yep, Hawthorn was simply asking all their past indigenous players what, if anything, they could do better and all this came out. The right thing now is to urgently have a full investigation into this including interviewing all parties involved. If the investigation backs up the claims then heads should roll no matter who they are.
By the way, did the AFL really sit on this report for two weeks hoping it didn't come out until after the Grand Final? A disgrace if true.
ps. Eddie Betts on AFL360 last night was just heartbreaking. Still having to put with this sort of crap in 2022.
https://twitter.com/FOXFOOTY/status/1572529211356905473
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I just wish someone would for once tell the truth. At the end of the day this will likely become a he said, she said ordeal and there will be no definitive judgement. Someone just come clean for once.
Person A: Person B told me to kill my unborn child.
Person B: I categorically deny telling Person A to kill their unborn child.
Here we go again. stuffing great.
(I should add, it's VERY hard to imagine a version of that conversation where there was any grey area. Aborting pregnancies doesn't strike me as a topic of conversation open to casual miscommunication.)
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I wonder how much the media is conflating this.
I wouldn't put it past an AFL club to *advise* a teenager or young 20's kid to consider not going through with a pregnancy but I struggle to imagine them directing someone to have an abortion flat out.
Still a lot of baggage to come out, yuck.
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The AFL has put forward its independent panel for the investigation into claims of racism at Hawthorn, as CEO Gillon McLachlan flagged a process lasting months.
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-news-2022-hawthorn-racism-investigation-gillon-mclachlan-interview-on-afl-360-alastair-clarkson-chris-fagan-probe/news-story/ce7cea97c5c190fbd37facb32430c6e7
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I wouldn't put it past an AFL club to *advise* a teenager or young 20's kid to consider not going through with a pregnancy but I struggle to imagine them directing someone to have an abortion flat out.
Yep entirely in the realms of possibility that the kid was in a relationship where he wasn't 100% happy and the club could see he wasn't reaching his potential and advised him of the options available
Still its a poo sandwich and in this pc world of witchhunts where everyone else is to blame there is going to be blood
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On Ch7 news last night they said that former RFC player Phil Egan was the author of the report commissioned by Hawthorn
He said that he had very narrow lines of investigation, hence why he did not speak to any other people (eg Clarkson/Fagan)
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I wouldn't put it past an AFL club to *advise* a teenager or young 20's kid to consider not going through with a pregnancy but I struggle to imagine them directing someone to have an abortion flat out.
Yep entirely in the realms of possibility that the kid was in a relationship where he wasn't 100% happy and the club could see he wasn't reaching his potential and advised him of the options available
Still its a poo sandwich and in this pc world of witchhunts where everyone else is to blame there is going to be blood
Yeah man.
We have 4 kids here. 2 are my step kids. 2 bio. Wife had all 4 before 30.
I'm sure if she had her time again she wouldn't have kids with her first husband at all. She was 21, he was 20, and they were both very immature and naive. Look now they are co-parenting together, it's difficult and awkward, and the kids are worse off for the complexity/blended circumstances with shared custody etc.
If one of my staff got pregnant at 18-21 I'd be telling them to think hard about it.
Heck one of my staff miscarried with her husband (she's 22) and hey presto he wants a divorce now after 6 months of marriage and 9 months of home ownership together. She's much better off for not having a kid with the jerk.
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‘Bullying, intimidation’ claims allegedly part of Hawthorn report
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/bullying-intimidation-claims-allegedly-part-of-hawthorn-report-20220927-p5blh4.html
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The AFL has named the independent four-person panel which will be tasked with fully investigating racism allegations levelled against Hawthorn.
Bernard Quinn KC will head the panel and be joined experienced barristers Jacqualyn Turfrey, Julie Buxton and Tim Goodwin.
In a lengthy statement, the AFL said they were hoping to finalise the investigation by December, with the report and recommendations to be made public.
AFL General Counsel Andrew Dillon said it was vital that the panel worked independently of the AFL and included people with diverse backgrounds.
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/10/05/afl-hoping-to-finalise-racism-report-by-end-of-2022-names-four-person-panel/
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The AFL has named the independent four-person panel which will be tasked with fully investigating racism allegations levelled against Hawthorn.
Bernard Quinn KC will head the panel and be joined experienced barristers Jacqualyn Turfrey, Julie Buxton and Tim Goodwin.
In a lengthy statement, the AFL said they were hoping to finalise the investigation by December, with the report and recommendations to be made public.
AFL General Counsel Andrew Dillon said it was vital that the panel worked independently of the AFL and included people with diverse backgrounds.
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/10/05/afl-hoping-to-finalise-racism-report-by-end-of-2022-names-four-person-panel/
Honest question, are they all white fellas?
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Jacqualyn Turfrey is Aboriginal dont know about the rest
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So is Goodwin
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Lol
Two are “First Nations” people or whatever we say these days
And one of the other two is a human rights rep of the First Nations people
Clarko and Fagan would be thrilled :lol :lol :lol
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Yep Damo quite an impressive lynch mob assembled
I can already predict the outcome
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Yep Damo quite an impressive lynch mob assembled
I can already predict the outcome
Doesn’t seem very balanced
Is that “reverse racism”?
I know if the panel was, how do I say it? White? There would have been a lot of noise
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At least none of them are pregnant.
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No findings against Hawthorn trio in AFL deal to end investigation
Peter Ryan
The Age
May 30, 2023 — 7.30pm
The AFL has reached an agreement with families involved in the allegations of historical racism at Hawthorn, and has made no findings against Alastair Clarkson, Chris Fagan and Jason Burt.
Sources involved in negotiations said a deal was reached on Tuesday and the investigation by the AFL’s independent panel, chaired by Bernard Quinn KC, would be wound up.
The trio were accused of mistreating First Nations players, allegations they strenuously deny.
The AFL is expected to make an apology and introduce measures to improve the environment for Indigenous players at clubs.
A memo went to AFL presidents on Tuesday night advising them of a briefing by AFL chief executive Gillon McLachlan.
McLachlan will front the media at 7.45pm on Tuesday.
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/afl-does-deal-with-families-to-end-hawthorn-investigation-20230530-p5dclq.html
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Paid to FO then
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AFL statement on Hawthorn independent investigation
https://www.afl.com.au/news/940757/afl-statement-on-hawthorn-independent-investigation
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So hush money paid, an apology offered and measures undertaken.
So it is basically an admission it happened.
All without the accused being able to defend themselves.
I hope they sue the AFL for defamation of character.
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well this is a surprise. :lol :lol :lol
4 things were virtually guaranteed in all this.
1. they (whoever they are) will accept any money to go away. Typical.
2. clarko, pagan would be innocent
3. clarko pagan would be tried before being innocent by some.
4. pagan, clarko to sue the arses off these who sought to bring them down with no evidence whatsoever.
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"No financial component" (Gill) means no hush money.
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"No financial component" (Gill) means no hush money.
What a crock haha.
Honestly they should have gone on the offensive the moment the accusers refused to participate in the investigation.
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"No financial component" (Gill) means no hush money.
Something would have been given, naive to think otherwise
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"No financial component" (Gill) means no hush money.
What a crock haha.
Honestly they should have gone on the offensive the moment the accusers refused to participate in the investigation.
:lol
they are very honest the afl.
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"No financial component" (Gill) means no hush money.
Something would have been given, naive to think otherwise
Seems like all that was given was a series of wishy-washy assurances and statements to the effect of "bad things that happened in the past were bad."
Unless Gill is lying of course, which I wouldn't bet against.
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I think folks are missing a key point
There is still a high chance of legal action from the "aggrieved" parties that refused to take part in the AFL's investigation
Reckon this is a long way from over
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I think folks are missing a key point
There is still a high chance of legal action from the "aggrieved" parties that refused to take part in the AFL's investigation
Reckon this is a long way from over
I mean that's true by definition seeing as the AFL investigation is not part of the legal system.
It felt like a pretty representative four member panel to me that guarded against possible bias, so I'm scratching my head as to how they think they'll get a better outcome in the legal system.
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Where is the Workcover investigation as this all took place in a workplace? The athletes have probably signed waivers that most workers wouldn't have to, but surely racism is outside of the workplace rules.
The AFL's own investigation was always bound to be severely compromised, now the way is open for some proper investigations.
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Gillon McLachlan says the league will now promptly consider bringing a charge against Hawthorn — which could lead to the club being fined and stripped of draft picks.
McLachlan confirmed the agreement didn’t preclude the AFL from charging Hawthorn for breaching AFL rules with respect to the commissioning and oversight of the Binmada Report.
McLachlan said whether the AFL pursued action against Hawthorn under AFL Rules – such as ‘conduct unbecoming’ or ‘bringing the game into disrepute’ – would be a decision for the league’s general counsel or the Commission.
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/teams/hawthorn-hawks/afl-news-2023-gillon-mclachlan-press-conference-hints-league-could-charge-hawthorn-hawks-under-rules-racism-investigation/news-story/2284daa6b9244d5768d31774705c11d4
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I think folks are missing a key point
There is still a high chance of legal action from the "aggrieved" parties that refused to take part in the AFL's investigation
Reckon this is a long way from over
They won't do crap.
There's no evidence and they wouldn't participate in the review so I doubt they'll go and air their dirty laundry (or lack thereof) in court.
Matter is over and the damage is done to Clarkson et al. A shame, I hope he makes a comeback.
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Gillon McLachlan says the league will now promptly consider bringing a charge against Hawthorn — which could lead to the club being fined and stripped of draft picks.
McLachlan confirmed the agreement didn’t preclude the AFL from charging Hawthorn for breaching AFL rules with respect to the commissioning and oversight of the Binmada Report.
McLachlan said whether the AFL pursued action against Hawthorn under AFL Rules – such as ‘conduct unbecoming’ or ‘bringing the game into disrepute’ – would be a decision for the league’s general counsel or the Commission.
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/teams/hawthorn-hawks/afl-news-2023-gillon-mclachlan-press-conference-hints-league-could-charge-hawthorn-hawks-under-rules-racism-investigation/news-story/2284daa6b9244d5768d31774705c11d4
I dont get this, they are saying the three amigos have no case to answer but the club does, so which individuals in the club are guilty, or is it an attempt by the AFL to lay the blame on an entity instead of individuals to appease the alleged victims?
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Gillon McLachlan says the league will now promptly consider bringing a charge against Hawthorn — which could lead to the club being fined and stripped of draft picks.
McLachlan confirmed the agreement didn’t preclude the AFL from charging Hawthorn for breaching AFL rules with respect to the commissioning and oversight of the Binmada Report.
McLachlan said whether the AFL pursued action against Hawthorn under AFL Rules – such as ‘conduct unbecoming’ or ‘bringing the game into disrepute’ – would be a decision for the league’s general counsel or the Commission.
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/teams/hawthorn-hawks/afl-news-2023-gillon-mclachlan-press-conference-hints-league-could-charge-hawthorn-hawks-under-rules-racism-investigation/news-story/2284daa6b9244d5768d31774705c11d4
I dont get this, they are saying the three amigos have no case to answer but the club does, so which individuals in the club are guilty, or is it an attempt by the AFL to lay the blame on an entity instead of individuals to appease the alleged victims?
There may be no or not enough evidence to blame any one individual but enough evidence showing the club as a whole failed the alleged victims.
In the end, the entity is responsible for its employees and the workplace at large and the whole situation is a mess due to the entity's mishandling of it. The AFL doesn't like clubs damaging its brand either.
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Gillon McLachlan says the league will now promptly consider bringing a charge against Hawthorn — which could lead to the club being fined and stripped of draft picks.
McLachlan confirmed the agreement didn’t preclude the AFL from charging Hawthorn for breaching AFL rules with respect to the commissioning and oversight of the Binmada Report.
McLachlan said whether the AFL pursued action against Hawthorn under AFL Rules – such as ‘conduct unbecoming’ or ‘bringing the game into disrepute’ – would be a decision for the league’s general counsel or the Commission.
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/teams/hawthorn-hawks/afl-news-2023-gillon-mclachlan-press-conference-hints-league-could-charge-hawthorn-hawks-under-rules-racism-investigation/news-story/2284daa6b9244d5768d31774705c11d4
I dont get this, they are saying the three amigos have no case to answer but the club does, so which individuals in the club are guilty, or is it an attempt by the AFL to lay the blame on an entity instead of individuals to appease the alleged victims?
There may be no or not enough evidence to blame any one individual but enough evidence showing the club as a whole failed the alleged victims.
In the end, the entity is responsible for its employees and the workplace at large and the whole situation is a mess due to the entity's mishandling of it. The AFL doesn't like clubs damaging its brand either.
:shh
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I think folks are missing a key point
There is still a high chance of legal action from the "aggrieved" parties that refused to take part in the AFL's investigation
Reckon this is a long way from over
They won't do crap.
There's no evidence and they wouldn't participate in the review so I doubt they'll go and air their dirty laundry (or lack thereof) in court.
Matter is over and the damage is done to Clarkson et al. A shame, I hope he makes a comeback.
They are doing something
Human Rights Commission they go
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Former premiership player Cyril Rioli and his wife Shannyn Ah Sam-Rioli, former player Jermaine Miller-Lewis and his wife Montanah, former player Carl Peterson, and ex-Hawks Indigenous liaison officer Leon Egan released an open letter on Friday night confirming their intention to take their claims to the Australian Human Rights Commission.
The Human Rights Commission process can involve conciliation, but if that fails to achieve a resolution, then action could be lodged in the Federal Court.
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/confidence-betrayed-indigenous-hawk-families-open-up-on-saga-20230602-p5ddl0.html
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WOW they have finally gone public
Can’t wait for this to play out
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I think folks are missing a key point
There is still a high chance of legal action from the "aggrieved" parties that refused to take part in the AFL's investigation
Reckon this is a long way from over
They won't do crap.
There's no evidence and they wouldn't participate in the review so I doubt they'll go and air their dirty laundry (or lack thereof) in court.
Matter is over and the damage is done to Clarkson et al. A shame, I hope he makes a comeback.
They are doing something
Human Rights Commission they go
I'm surprised indeed
Wonder why they didn't go public earlier if there's something genuine
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Well my guess is they are gutless and would prefer to whinge behind anonimity
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https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/author-of-hawthorn-racism-report-accused-of-siphoning-almost-800-000-from-indigenous-organisation-20230811-p5dvpd.html
Egan dodgy? :lol
You couldn't make this up. What a load of Bs the whole thing so let's hope Clarlo sues the lot of them