Re: The ages of Richmond's list

[Judge Roughneck]

23 Nov 2004, 22:25    #1 
Weaver
BigFooty Elite Member
Richmond
Southampton
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Deledio Wonderland

I know we are all excited about our young kids but there is a 'hidden' problem ticking away at Richmond. In 5 years time the core of our team will be the guys in the 21-25 age group and that group is looking a bit iffy. We may have some good kids by then but the senior players may not be much chop.

Using April 1 (round 1 as a date)

The veterans 30+ - certainly gone in 5 years
32 - Campbell
32 - Graham
30 - Stafford
30 - Richardson

Experienced 25-29 - mostly gone in 5 years

29 - Kellaway
28 - Gaspar
27 - Chaffey
27 - Brown
27 - Johnson
26 - Bowden
26 - Simmonds
26 - Hilton
26 - Tivendale

Young veterans 21-25 - the core of the team in 5 years

24 - Hall
24 - Morrison
23 - Tuck
23 - Pettifer
23 - Zantuck
23 - Coughlan
22 - Newman
22 - Hyde
22 - Krakouer
21 - Rodan
21 - Moore

The kids 17-20 - making their mark in 5 years?

20 - Hartigan
20 - Schulz
19 - Roach
19 - Foley
19 - Archibald
19 - Pattison
19 - Raines
19 - Jackson
18 - Gilmour
18 - Meyer
18 - Polo
18 - Limbach
18 - Tambling
17 - McGuane
17 - Deledio

St Kilda

Veterans - Harvey (33), Thompson (32)
Experienced - Gehrig (29), Hudghton (28), Powell (28), Jones (28), Hammill (27), Voss (27), Hayes (25), Milne (25)
Young veterans - Baker (24), Penny (24), Blake (24), Fiora (23), Schwarze (23), Ackland (23), Guerra (22), Koschitzke (22), Riewoldt (22), X.Clarke (21), Montagna (21), Del Santo (21)
Kids - Ball (20), McGough (20), Maguire (20), Goddard (19)

I included Fiora for Black and Ackland for Knobel. Were St Kilda to contest a grand final in 2005 they would probably have Riewoldt, Ko********zke, Dal Santo, Ball, Maguire in their best 22. So maybe 6 under 23s. They are probably more likely grand finalists in 2006 when they would be down to around 3-4 under 23s.

The focus on the St Kilda kids glosses over that good group of experienced players.

Geelong

Veterans - Riccardi (32), Sanderson (31)
Experienced - Milburn (28), Harley (26), Kinglsey (26), King (26), Scarlett (25), Ottens (25), Mooney (25)
Young veterans - Wojcinski (24), Ling (24), Enright (23), Haynes(23), D.Johnson (23), Chapman (23), Corey (23), Koulouriotis (23), Hunt (23), Playfair (22), Gardiner (22), Steve Johnson (21), Bartel (21), Kelly (21)
Kids - Ablett (19), Mackie (19), Tenace (19)

Again if Geelong were to make the Grand Final this year (or next) they would probably have S.Johnson, Bartel, Kelly, Ablett, Mackie and Tenace under 23s. So maybe 6 under-23s again.

Richmond - in 5 years time

Veterans (say 4 from this group) - Brown (31), Johnson (31), Bowden (31), Simmonds (31), Tivendale (31)
Experienced - Coughlan (28), Newman (27), Krakouer (27).
Young veterans - any of the kids we have now.

My point is that that experienced group, that core of the team, is very shallow.

We need 5-6 of the likes of Hall, Pettifer, Rodan, Morrison, Hyde, Zantuck, Tuck, Moore, Hartigan, Schulz to become genuine top-notch players to complement the kids and veterans if we are to be a good side in 5 years time.

St Kilda and Geelong may have good young talent but they built around a solid core. That is what we are missing now

[crannyvegas]

retrospectively that is an awesome post.

[gerkin greg]

Age is irrelevant. Weaver was sucking back some of Terry's salt tablets

[blaisee]

its no secret that weaver now works for the magpies in recruitment

[torch]

This guy knows his stuff.

Is correct about St Kilda and Geelong.

We still need a massive clean out.

Another 10 and more MUST leave!

[Penelope]

23 Nov 2004, 22:25    #1 
Weaver
BigFooty Elite Member
Richmond
Southampton
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Deledio Wonderland

I know we are all excited about our young kids but there is a 'hidden' problem ticking away at Richmond. In 5 years time the core of our team will be the guys in the 21-25 age group and that group is looking a bit iffy. We may have some good kids by then but the senior players may not be much chop.

Using April 1 (round 1 as a date)

The veterans 30+ - certainly gone in 5 years
32 - Campbell
32 - Graham
30 - Stafford
30 - Richardson
We have 2, both gone
Experienced 25-29 - mostly gone in 5 years

29 - Kellaway
28 - Gaspar
27 - Chaffey
27 - Brown
27 - Johnson
26 - Bowden
26 - Simmonds
26 - Hilton
26 - Tivendale
we have 6 including polak who is finished. Probably safe to assume Jordie is finished as well so thats 4
Young veterans 21-25 - the core of the team in 5 years

24 - Hall
24 - Morrison
23 - Tuck
23 - Pettifer
23 - Zantuck
23 - Coughlan
22 - Newman
22 - Hyde
22 - Krakouer
21 - Rodan
21 - Moore
We currently have 20 on the main list but also o'reilly, gourdis,and roberts from the rookie list
The kids 17-20 - making their mark in 5 years?

20 - Hartigan
20 - Schulz
19 - Roach
19 - Foley
19 - Archibald
19 - Pattison
19 - Raines
19 - Jackson
18 - Gilmour
18 - Meyer
18 - Polo
18 - Limbach
18 - Tambling
17 - McGuane
17 - Deledio

we have twelve including three rookies.

List structure is in a much better shape than it was 5 years ago.

St Kilda

Veterans - Harvey (33), Thompson (32)
Experienced - Gehrig (29), Hudghton (28), Powell (28), Jones (28), Hammill (27), Voss (27), Hayes (25), Milne (25)
Young veterans - Baker (24), Penny (24), Blake (24), Fiora (23), Schwarze (23), Ackland (23), Guerra (22), Koschitzke (22), Riewoldt (22), X.Clarke (21), Montagna (21), Del Santo (21)
Kids - Ball (20), McGough (20), Maguire (20), Goddard (19)

I included Fiora for Black and Ackland for Knobel. Were St Kilda to contest a grand final in 2005 they would probably have Riewoldt, Ko********zke, Dal Santo, Ball, Maguire in their best 22. So maybe 6 under 23s. They are probably more likely grand finalists in 2006 when they would be down to around 3-4 under 23s.

The focus on the St Kilda kids glosses over that good group of experienced players.

Geelong

Veterans - Riccardi (32), Sanderson (31)
Experienced - Milburn (28), Harley (26), Kinglsey (26), King (26), Scarlett (25), Ottens (25), Mooney (25)
Young veterans - Wojcinski (24), Ling (24), Enright (23), Haynes(23), D.Johnson (23), Chapman (23), Corey (23), Koulouriotis (23), Hunt (23), Playfair (22), Gardiner (22), Steve Johnson (21), Bartel (21), Kelly (21)
Kids - Ablett (19), Mackie (19), Tenace (19)

Again if Geelong were to make the Grand Final this year (or next) they would probably have S.Johnson, Bartel, Kelly, Ablett, Mackie and Tenace under 23s. So maybe 6 under-23s again.

Richmond - in 5 years time

Veterans (say 4 from this group) - Brown (31), Johnson (31), Bowden (31), Simmonds (31), Tivendale (31)
Experienced - Coughlan (28), Newman (27), Krakouer (27).
Young veterans - any of the kids we have now.

My point is that that experienced group, that core of the team, is very shallow.

We need 5-6 of the likes of Hall, Pettifer, Rodan, Morrison, Hyde, Zantuck, Tuck, Moore, Hartigan, Schulz to become genuine top-notch players to complement the kids and veterans if we are to be a good side in 5 years time.

St Kilda and Geelong may have good young talent but they built around a solid core. That is what we are missing now

[gerkin greg]

its no secret that weaver now works for the magpies in recruitment

So he can spot some talent now he's a list management guru? Same bloke that thought Jack was a dud. For what it's worth I generally respect his opinion.
Anyway that's not my point, point is you can have the most perfectly balanced list in terms of age spread and still be no closer to a flag.
Coaching and development is more key, and games played is more relevant than age. The magic age premiership wheel was a Terry Wallace special that whilst holding some truth is certainly not the be all and end all. Surprise surprise the bloke is out of a coaching job.

[mightytiges]

23 Nov 2004, 22:25    #1  
Weaver
BigFooty Elite Member
Richmond
Southampton
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Deledio Wonderland

I know we are all excited about our young kids but there is a 'hidden' problem ticking away at Richmond. In 5 years time the core of our team will be the guys in the 21-25 age group and that group is looking a bit iffy. We may have some good kids by then but the senior players may not be much chop.

Using April 1 (round 1 as a date)

The veterans 30+ - certainly gone in 5 years
32 - Campbell
32 - Graham
30 - Stafford
30 - Richardson

Experienced 25-29 - mostly gone in 5 years

29 - Kellaway
28 - Gaspar
27 - Chaffey
27 - Brown
27 - Johnson
26 - Bowden
26 - Simmonds
26 - Hilton
26 - Tivendale

Young veterans 21-25 - the core of the team in 5 years

24 - Hall
24 - Morrison
23 - Tuck
23 - Pettifer
23 - Zantuck
23 - Coughlan
22 - Newman
22 - Hyde
22 - Krakouer
21 - Rodan
21 - Moore

The kids 17-20 - making their mark in 5 years?

20 - Hartigan
20 - Schulz
19 - Roach
19 - Foley
19 - Archibald
19 - Pattison
19 - Raines
19 - Jackson
18 - Gilmour
18 - Meyer
18 - Polo
18 - Limbach
18 - Tambling
17 - McGuane
17 - Deledio

Spud's legacy! Talk about starting from scratch 5 years ago

We need 5-6 of the likes of Hall, Pettifer, Rodan, Morrison, Hyde, Zantuck, Tuck, Moore, Hartigan, Schulz to become genuine top-notch players to complement the kids and veterans if we are to be a good side in 5 years time.

:nup


The positive now is we'll practically have 90% of our list is 24 and under next year and we'll lose very few senior players let alone any A-grade senior players due to retirement in the next 5 years.

Richmond - Start of 2011 season (end of March) including known and likely retirements/delistings (Cuz, Simmo, Polly, Jordie, Polo, Thomson, Roberts).

29+: -
------------------------------------
28: Tuck (128), Newman (173)
27: King (54), Moore (82)
26: -
25: Foley (88 )
24: Thursfield (66), Jackson (83), McGuane (70), Morton (60), Tambling (108 )
23: Deledio (126), Graham (31), White (69), Nahas (31)
---------------------------------------------
22: Hislop (22), Collins (23), Connors (22), Edwards (67), Riewoldt (66), Farmer (20), Webberley (10), Gourdis# (1), O'Reilly# (1)
21: Post (12), Rance (23), Nason (19)
20: Cotchin (40), Vickery (23), Browne (5), Astbury (16), Gilligan# (-)
19: Martin (19), Griffiths (5), Dea (3), Taylor (2), Grimes (-), Hicks# (3), Contin# (-), Westhoff# (-)
18: 2010 draftees ...

Oldies: 0
Prime: 14
Youth: 25 + 2010 draftees (so possibly 30+ U23s)

[Stripes]

So being as objective and unbiased as possible, what players on our cuurent list are close to certainities to being around in 5 years?

Looking back on our list 5 years a go when we rated our players so highly I think we can expect many changes over the next half of a decade and we need to keep dipping into the draft as much as we can. We are only starting our rebuild imho.

I would suggest -

'Near-Certainities'
Martin
Cotchin
Deledio
Riewoldt

Probabilities
Graham
Vickery
Foley
Astbury
Griffiths
Connors

Possibilities
Tambling
Collins
Newman(age)
McGuane
Moore
Thursfield
White
Rest of first year players

Unlikely
King
Browne
Tuck

Any I missed?

Stripes

[Judge Roughneck]

Post, rance

[mightytiges]

Good effort Stripes  . Additions in yellow.

'Near-Certainities'
Martin
Cotchin
Deledio
Riewoldt

Probabilities
Graham
Vickery
Foley
Astbury
Griffiths
Connors

Possibilities
Tambling
Collins
Newman(age)
McGuane
Moore
Thursfield
White
Morton
Edwards
Post
Rance
Farmer
Browne
Gourdis
Rest of first year players

Unlikely
King
Browne
Tuck
Nahas
Hislop
Gilligan

[Smokey]

Unlikely

Browne

Got this one very wrong imho Stripes.

[Judge Roughneck]

Age is irrelevant.

no it is not

it is better to have many young player with some talent than a plethora of mid 20s footballers who are no good.

the list is in better postion than 5-8 years ago

[Rodgerramjet]

But it also tells us that we need another year to tell us where this list is really going.

[gerkin greg]

no it is not

you're right, irrelevant was over the top

it is better to have many young player with some talent than a plethora of mid 20s footballers who are no good.

i'd rather a plethora of mid20s footballers who are guns

the list is in better postion than 5-8 years ago

totally agree, the club is actually building a list to win a flag from a plan instead of wandering around in the circle of NFI with a list of spuds with some wishful idea of making finals