One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: YellowandBlackBlood on April 15, 2014, 09:51:59 PM
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We often hear about this team having a poor culture or a good culture, but what is it exactly?
I have finally found out what it actually is at a footy club.
A key member of a medical team I know left a club and went to Hawthorn 2 years ago. He said the most startling difference between his former club and Hawthorn was the interaction of the older more experienced players with the young players.
At Hawthorn the older players take the younger ones under their wing and teach them what to do and what not to do on the football field. This happens at training, in the seconds and in the firsts.
At his other team, the older players thought their job was just to play well and collect their pay check.
Interestingly I heard a similar story from Matty Knights coaching the Geelong seconds. He said he couldn't believe how the senior players in the seconds were helping the young players develop their game. They were not at all worried about losing their potential senior spots to these youngsters. They thought their job was to teach them. He commented how he found that extraordinary.
Thus at Hawthorn and Geelong they have many development coaches as the players themselves become coaches too.
Funnily enough, these two clubs probably have currently the best cultures in the league.
So there you go. That's what culture is and what has probably been lacking at Richmond for the best part of 32 years……...
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Maybe in the bizarro world at Punt Rd the kids who have played 20 games or less can reprogram the senior players because from where I sit the kids and newbies at the club are doing a great deal more and showing more than the players of more seniority.
Its call deprogramming the deprogrammed before the deprogrammed deprogram you.
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Maybe in the bizarro world at Punt Rd the kids who have played 20 games or less can reprogram the senior players because from where I sit the kids and newbies at the club are doing a great deal more and showing more than the players of more seniority.
Its call deprogramming the deprogrammed before the deprogrammed deprogram you.
The problem with our youngsters is who the hell is going to teach them at all from our experienced group. Most of the experienced players would make poor teachers. :(
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Maybe in the bizarro world at Punt Rd the kids who have played 20 games or less can reprogram the senior players because from where I sit the kids and newbies at the club are doing a great deal more and showing more than the players of more seniority.
Its call deprogramming the deprogrammed before the deprogrammed deprogram you.
The problem with our youngsters is who the hell is going to teach them at all from our experienced group. Most of the experienced players would make poor teachers. :(
In 2010 blokes like Cotchin and Lids were leaders at the club. More so than Newman who was captain.
It seems once someone gets entrenched at Punt Rd they lose all sense of quality and leadership as club may be an organisation for a boys club rather than a footy team.
I can remember in Dimma's first pre season blokes who got to the drink at training first would get a drink for someone who was just arriving to the drink as a form of respect for all and team bonding. Just a small thing but adding the small things up make a big deal. Dimma made note of that and told the media. Now its about so called structures and plans and so and so and the little things don't get mentioned. To me its deviating from a plan. Whether its a coach an admin or a player its accepted and has been happening at RFC for far too long.
Words are nice but actions speak louder than words and for 32 years all we've done is heard but never seen at Richmond. It sickens me that as a supporter in the 35-45 age bracket I have had very little to cheer about since I was a young fella. Dimma should know better considering the three clubs he saw success at. Club is far too laid back and content on keeping its head above water $$$$$.
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We often hear about this team having a poor culture or a good culture, but what is it exactly?
I have finally found out what it actually is at a footy club.
A key member of a medical team I know left a club and went to Hawthorn 2 years ago. He said the most startling difference between his former club and Hawthorn was the interaction of the older more experienced players with the young players.
At Hawthorn the older players take the younger ones under their wing and teach them what to do and what not to do on the football field. This happens at training, in the seconds and in the firsts.
Clarkson was on triple M a couple weeks ago talking about this. Said he assumed it to be the case at clubs like Geelong too.
He was saying how the older guys like Mitchell and Hodge were actually an extension of the coaching group. They aren't just leaders they are instructed as coaches and then they actually teach the younger guys. He went into some other stuff regarding recruiting that was educational but what I found most interesting was when he went on to say how because their leaders are coaches it doesn't take him to make changes in the box when the poo hits the fan. Their on field leaders know exactly what to do and what plan to enact should the poo hit the fan. They know and are confident in what tactical changes to make without a runner coming out with the coaches orders. The young guys look to them. Clarkson would then only relay new instructions if he had a better read on the game.
After listening to that I started to think about guys like Cotchin and Marc Murphy and how they just aren't ready or qualified yet. It took a runner with instructions to tell Cotchin to go to Pendlebury to try and take advantage of his close check and create a spare man. People like Roos have said he could have used initiative and tried to annoy Macaffer by getting some cheap kicks by taking some kick ins. Someone like Joel Selwood on the other hand is just a great player and learned in a great system.
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Interesting post dwaino :thumbsup
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Our culture is Tigeritis.
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Big O must be laughing hard at our culture compared to Geelong's
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Big O must be laughing hard at our culture compared to Geelong's
Maybe he is a better man than that and is doing something about it ? If he isn't doing something about it then he is part of the problem and therefore has no right to laugh.
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That's why for a team like us (30+ years of poo) it's even more important that there's a high standard in all areas.
Nothing gets done without excellence as its prime end & purpose.
Everyone that gets involved is immediately impressed upon to achieve better standards.
The bar always gets raised and no one ever is settled or content with the status quo because everyone is trying harder than they've ever tried & striving for excellence in all they do.
Everyone gets better. Even the ordinary players are achievers and contributors.
Once you allow mediocrity to rear it's ugly head it will kill you as its virulent in its capacity to destroy the apathetic.
The one that can bring this standard of excellence to Richmond will finally rid the stench of mediocrity that's ingrained in the corridors and cupboards at Punt road.
I thought wallet was the one, I was wrong.
I thought Dimma was the one, it looks like I was wrong too.
It looks like we are going backwards again, the signs are there.
It's the cycle of Skata.
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We often hear about this team having a poor culture or a good culture, but what is it exactly?
I have finally found out what it actually is at a footy club.
A key member of a medical team I know left a club and went to Hawthorn 2 years ago. He said the most startling difference between his former club and Hawthorn was the interaction of the older more experienced players with the young players.
At Hawthorn the older players take the younger ones under their wing and teach them what to do and what not to do on the football field. This happens at training, in the seconds and in the firsts.
At his other team, the older players thought their job was just to play well and collect their pay check.
Interestingly I heard a similar story from Matty Knights coaching the Geelong seconds. He said he couldn't believe how the senior players in the seconds were helping the young players develop their game. They were not at all worried about losing their potential senior spots to these youngsters. They thought their job was to teach them. He commented how he found that extraordinary.
Thus at Hawthorn and Geelong they have many development coaches as the players themselves become coaches too.
Funnily enough, these two clubs probably have currently the best cultures in the league.
So there you go. That's what culture is and what has probably been lacking at Richmond for the best part of 32 years……...
Great Post, I believe it is all 100% true, I know an ex specialist coach at Hawthorn who mentioned that Richmond has a lot of Prima Donnas, it is well known in the industry, it is also known that they will not succeed in that culture. Change the culture seems to be more important than the players or the coaching staff.
Take some of our younger players who showed so much promise early on only to get infected with the Tiger Malaise eg Ellis is a prime example and maybe even Dusty.
Why is something like this so obvious and well known yet nothing is done about it.??????????
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Interesting topic.
I define the RFC culture as something like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdbt-sx5MDc
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Interesting topic.
I define the RFC culture as something like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdbt-sx5MDc
:lol
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Interesting topic.
I define the RFC culture as something like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdbt-sx5MDc
:lol
why you laughing doc ... its probably true ;D
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Interesting topic.
I define the RFC culture as something like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdbt-sx5MDc
:lol
why you laughing doc ... its probably true ;D
Loved that movie....very funny!
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Like any relationship between people you can probably reduce club/team culture down to honesty, respect, trust and love/care. At the moment there's a clear failure to uphold these values.
Honesty - definitely not onfield (plenty of dishonest and lazy "efforts" this season with last night being the worst). Dishonesty as far as a Club and especially a footy dept. getting ahead of itself and clearly not preparing anywhere good enough for 2014. Add dishonesty towards us supporters with mixed, contradictory and dubious public statements coming out of the Club this year.
Respect - feeds into YABB's opening post. Is there still respect from the playing list towards the coaches and vice versa? From the leaders/senior players towards the younger players and vice versa? Most importantly where is their self-respect? Given what is being dished up this year in terms of poor workrate and poor standard of skill that would be a no. Where's the pride in your own performance and standards? As far as team standards, who sets them, to what level, and who audits that those standards are being met? If it's not the coaches and leaders/senior players then don't be surprised when standards slip.
Trust - If you don't trust your teammate(s) then the whole fabric of the team, its structures and the fundamentals of working for each other, fall apart. If players don't trust the coach's gameplan then a coach can lose his players. I would also say rightly or wrongly there's a clear lack of trust from the coach and match committee in the whole playing list based on team selections this year and even Dimma's post-match comment last night that most of our best players are in the side already. If Dimma is right then add a lack of trust from the coach in the list's depth and the ability and performance so far of the recruiting dept. Clearly, unlike the previous 4 years, the inner sanctum isn't on the same page and moving in the same direction.
Love/Care - If the above three no longer exist then this value fails. Jack gets bashed in the media for his supposed antics but you can't question he cares about the Club and team. He was cut up after the loss last night. How many others were? Where was the fight or even anger and frustration? We just succumbed so meekly. Too many Tigers this year have been unwilling to pay the price again to backup their 2013 efforts let alone improve on 2013. As a result, most have gone backwards this year.
It's hard seeing all this investigated and dealt with midseason. There needs to a Geelong 2006-like intensive and extensive review at the end of the season. Obviously the 'reviews' they've had and are having have failed to address what has happened. Interesting to find out what Dan Richardson's response to the Board this month will be.
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Like any relationship between people you can probably reduce club/team culture down to honesty, respect, trust and love/care. At the moment there's a clear failure to uphold these values.
Honesty - definitely not onfield (plenty of dishonest and lazy "efforts" this season with last night being the worst). Dishonesty as far as a Club and especially a footy dept. getting ahead of itself and clearly not preparing anywhere good enough for 2014. Add dishonesty towards us supporters with mixed, contradictory and dubious public statements coming out of the Club this year.
Respect - feeds into YABB's opening post. Is there still respect from the playing list towards the coaches and vice versa? From the leaders/senior players towards the younger players and vice versa? Most importantly where is their self-respect? Given what is being dished up this year in terms of poor workrate and poor standard of skill that would be a no. Where's the pride in your own performance and standards? As far as team standards, who sets them, to what level, and who audits that those standards are being met? If it's not the coaches and leaders/senior players then don't be surprised when standards slip.
Trust - If you don't trust your teammate(s) then the whole fabric of the team, its structures and the fundamentals of working for each other, fall apart. If players don't trust the coach's gameplan then a coach can lose his players. I would also say rightly or wrongly there's a clear lack of trust from the coach and match committee in the whole playing list based on team selections this year and even Dimma's post-match comment last night that most of our best players are in the side already. If Dimma is right then add a lack of trust from the coach in the list's depth and the ability and performance so far of the recruiting dept. Clearly, unlike the previous 4 years, the inner sanctum isn't on the same page and moving in the same direction.
Love/Care - If the above three no longer exist then this value fails. Jack gets bashed in the media for his supposed antics but you can't question he cares about the Club and team. He was cut up after the loss last night. How many others were? Where was the fight or even anger and frustration? We just succumbed so meekly. Too many Tigers this year have been unwilling to pay the price again to backup their 2013 efforts let alone improve on 2013. As a result, most have gone backwards this year.
It's hard seeing all this investigated and dealt with midseason. There needs to a Geelong 2006-like intensive and extensive review at the end of the season. Obviously the 'reviews' they've had and are having have failed to address what has happened. Interesting to find out what Dan Richardson's response to the Board this month will be.
great post mt all of it pertinant but for me the trust one more so.
its been clear for a long while that recruiting leaves a lot to be desired. its also become clear that hardwick has little faith outside of the regular top 25 or so players.
there sure has been a need for a geelong type review.
what amazes me is how we can go thru some real good processses only to abandon them after a few yrs. what also amazes is how they can overrate so much what was clearly an ordinary list.
is dan richardson close to the players and staff, if so how the hell can he be objective.
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Just wonder if trust can exist without respect and honesty claw
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Honesty - definitely not onfield (plenty of dishonest and lazy "efforts" this season with last night being the worst). Dishonesty as far as a Club and especially a footy dept. getting ahead of itself and clearly not preparing anywhere good enough for 2014. Add dishonesty towards us supporters with mixed, contradictory and dubious public statements coming out of the Club this year.
Respect - feeds into YABB's opening post. Is there still respect from the playing list towards the coaches and vice versa? From the leaders/senior players towards the younger players and vice versa? Most importantly where is their self-respect? Given what is being dished up this year in terms of poor workrate and poor standard of skill that would be a no. Where's the pride in your own performance and standards? As far as team standards, who sets them, to what level, and who audits that those standards are being met? If it's not the coaches and leaders/senior players then don't be surprised when standards slip.
These 2 for mine
Right now we are a dishonest club on ALL levels. Take the results out of the equation, what's come out of the club this year (call it the spin or whatever) has been terrible, have treated their members like mugs. IMV got ahead of themselves in a huge way, first danger signs for me were pre-season when they were talking top 4 when what they should of been focusing winning enough games to get to the 8. Then thinking about top 4. We've had so many mixed messages that if it wasn't so gut wrenching it would be hysterically funny.
As for respect, well if you don't have that then dishonest is likely to follow
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Like any relationship between people you can probably reduce club/team culture down to honesty, respect, trust and love/care. At the moment there's a clear failure to uphold these values.
Honesty - definitely not onfield (plenty of dishonest and lazy "efforts" this season with last night being the worst). Dishonesty as far as a Club and especially a footy dept. getting ahead of itself and clearly not preparing anywhere good enough for 2014. Add dishonesty towards us supporters with mixed, contradictory and dubious public statements coming out of the Club this year.
Respect - feeds into YABB's opening post. Is there still respect from the playing list towards the coaches and vice versa? From the leaders/senior players towards the younger players and vice versa? Most importantly where is their self-respect? Given what is being dished up this year in terms of poor workrate and poor standard of skill that would be a no. Where's the pride in your own performance and standards? As far as team standards, who sets them, to what level, and who audits that those standards are being met? If it's not the coaches and leaders/senior players then don't be surprised when standards slip.
Trust - If you don't trust your teammate(s) then the whole fabric of the team, its structures and the fundamentals of working for each other, fall apart. If players don't trust the coach's gameplan then a coach can lose his players. I would also say rightly or wrongly there's a clear lack of trust from the coach and match committee in the whole playing list based on team selections this year and even Dimma's post-match comment last night that most of our best players are in the side already. If Dimma is right then add a lack of trust from the coach in the list's depth and the ability and performance so far of the recruiting dept. Clearly, unlike the previous 4 years, the inner sanctum isn't on the same page and moving in the same direction.
Love/Care - If the above three no longer exist then this value fails. Jack gets bashed in the media for his supposed antics but you can't question he cares about the Club and team. He was cut up after the loss last night. How many others were? Where was the fight or even anger and frustration? We just succumbed so meekly. Too many Tigers this year have been unwilling to pay the price again to backup their 2013 efforts let alone improve on 2013. As a result, most have gone backwards this year.
It's hard seeing all this investigated and dealt with midseason. There needs to a Geelong 2006-like intensive and extensive review at the end of the season. Obviously the 'reviews' they've had and are having have failed to address what has happened. Interesting to find out what Dan Richardson's response to the Board this month will be.
Good post MT, agree with it all. And I disagree with Peggy when she says there is no need for an overall review - I think there is a screaming need for one at season's end, done independently and leaving no-one out.
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Hardwick reckons they pretty much have a comprehensive review every couple of months.
He actually said this himself on 3aw.
I reckon they sit in a circle and tell each other how great the list is. No reason to flog the boys on the track because they are ready to run the marathon. All we need to take it to another level is to get a couple of big name, big game players like Hamspud & we will be in the top 4 for sure! :clapping :clapping
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Interesting topic.
I define the RFC culture as something like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdbt-sx5MDc
that last a whole 1 second before it got X off ::)