One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: big tone on December 30, 2013, 11:27:32 AM
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For us to really bridge the gap on the top sides next year we need to improve in a few areas which probably means we have to improve the personal in those positions.
For me it's the following
Grigg- wingman (I just think we can do better here, he gets plenty of the footy but I just think someone else could get that same amount of footy but with better foot skills and a harder edge)
Houli- rebounding back (bit unlucky to be here but I'm always concerned about his defending and his hardness) I personally think he could play on a wing or even in second rotation as a midfielder) but again I think we can do better in his position.
A. Edwards- third tall/lead up forward (like the way the kid plays but if we are to improve we have to get someone more damaging, IMO he goes missing too often, and not just at Richmond, he has been like that his whole career. Someone taller, a better mark and more agile when the ball hits the ground would really help our forward structure now with Vickory most likely to play at CHF. He is good at most things but not great at anything, other than kicking at goal)
King and S. Edwards- small forwards (both are best 22 at present but neither play that Eddie Betts, Balentine type of small forward that on their day can kick a bag of 5 or 6 to win you a game. Need another match winner in our forwardline to compliment Jack. Some extra X factor would be massive for our forwardline. At present IMO we are way to predictable down there.
So on paper my best 22 at this stage is
Morris Chaplin Grimes
Houli Rance Vlastuin
Grigg Foley Lids
A. Edwards Vickory Martin
King Jack Hampson
Maric Cotch Jackson
Newman Ellis S. Edwards Conca
So my questions are, who can you see replacing my 'suspect' players ASAP? (If you agree of course) Just remember though, the people you are going to replace them with need to be better NOW, not potentially better. We don't want to make our side any weaker in 2014
Is there anyone else you think we can do better than, currently best 22? And who would you replace them with?
And most importantly is Hardwick strong enough to make the tough call on some of these favourites?
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Good post Tone. Couldn't agree more on the players you've named and the reasons you've named them.
I think Kingy brings a bit more to the team than he gets credit for though. However he's starting to age and get a battered body.
I'm banking on the natural progression of the kids we've had at the club for a couple of years. They need to step up and force their way in.
I guess the club is thinking the same ? Only reason I can see for them not drafting any kids in the recent draft ?
Finally , as you touched on Tone , Dimma has to stop playing favorites if we're to improve. I was a little concerned to hear Hampson interviewed saying he'd been promised a senior game EVERY week. Same thing Houli and Grigg said when we recruited them. It's been proven they were correct. They are beyond relegation it seems.
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So my questions are, who can you see replacing my 'suspect' players ASAP? (If you agree of course) Just remember though, the people you are going to replace them with need to be better NOW, not potentially better. We don't want to make our side any weaker in 2014
Is there anyone else you think we can do better than, currently best 22? And who would you replace them with?
If hardhat plays another season of his favorite only policy the development in the younger players will alarmingly stagnant
Can players achieve their potential by playing in the 2's? Is it every worth player a lesser player in the senior side ahead of a seemingly superior player for the sake of development and potential?
To give an example Grigg might be a better player than Lennon now, but if it were up to me I would choose Lennon in a heartbeat.
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And most importantly is Hardwick strong enough to make the tough call on some of these favourites?
Great post big tone
For mine the above is the biggest question of all and to be honest I am not sure he will be until it's too late.
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I think Dimma showed his intentions on Grigg at least once this past season when he relegated him to substitute.i think that was a clear message to him ..get your ass into gear.
As for Houli his defensive work was vastly improved on past seasons.My major knock on him currently is that he's one sided
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King brings intangible qualities to the side. Having said that, this alone shouldn't guarantee his spot. Coming down the other side of the mountain rapidly.
Houli's valuable when things are going well but goes to water when they are not. Panic merchant, poor defensively, one-sided.
Grigg was a minor upgrade on McMahon, although it could be argued that Jordy was a better kick.. Both are soft, one way runners, defensively useless and massive downhill skiiers. Grigg plays his "role" a little too well for mine. Never have I witnesed a player, not McMahon or even Tambling, actually run shoulder to shoulder with an opponent in possession and not only make no effort to tackle him, but actually point to a teammate further away to cover his Siamese Twin. Also far too one-sided, and his delivery into our foward line is atrocious and a leading culprit in our poor ratio of conversion from fwd entries. Urgent upgrade required IMO.
What to do with Shank Edwards - the rare one step from elite/one step from a hack player? As I've said numerous times - ideal sub. He has strengths and some sublime skills but they are far outweighed by his flaws. Putting him up fresh against a tiring opposition should at least restore the balance somewhat. Of course you can't use the same bloke as a sub every game, so the dilemna of where to play him for full games or if at all remains. Has strengths & weaknesses that suit & undermine him both as a mid or a foward.
And most importantly is Hardwick strong enough to make the tough call on some of these favourites?
Great post big tone
For mine the above is the biggest question of all and to be honest I am not sure he will be until it's too late.
This is also one of my biggest concerns regarding Hardwick.
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Smashing the two grand finalists tell me we sure are good enough. We need to adopt a more horses for courses approach to other sides Some weeks we will need 2 rucks ...finding that mid size forward that can conjure something from nothing like an illusionist is another important dimension.
We have gone along way toward addressing those two areas in order for RFC to take a giant step forward in 2014 :clapping
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Agree with most posts here and :clapping to the OP. - much more concise analysis of our list gaps than some others so called experts on this forum :shh
There are some young fellas who might take the leap this pre season to force some of the issues mentioned in your post BT.
I'm sure Hardwick will see the light - he has assistants around him who have been part of premiership teams that had to sacrifice stalwarts of their clubs to make way for better talent - Hardwick actually saw it himself.
I wouldn't under estimate his ability to make the tough calls as our list improves and young talent puts pressure on others in our starting 18.
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Good post BT. Agree with most of what you've said. The main thing I disagree on is Houli, personally think he's severely underrated by most tiger supporters, I notice a marked difference in our drive when he doesn't play - and his defending has improved a lot(although still needs to get better).
Of the side you posted - I'd make one change, actually 2.
Lennon in - A.Edwards out. If not round 1 then after a few weeks ala Vlastuin this season. I think with Jack, Vicks and hampson there we have enough talls(A.edwards plays taller than his height suggests usually as a leading fwd), Lennon can play tall if required(strong mark) and probably already has better field footskills than A.Edwards.
The other change is Arnott in - newman out. Probably not a popular call but personally feel Newman is past it and I was quite impressed with Arnott this season.
Would love to see Griffiths, Helbig and batchelor all pushing for genuine starting spots week in week out and mcbean and McIntosh to play some games and show some exciting development. If Gordon and Lloyd can show anything and force their way in it will be a bonus.
Unfortunately Pettard will no doubt be an automatic inclusion in the best squad.
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I think Dimma showed his intentions on Grigg at least once this past season when he relegated him to substitute.i think that was a clear message to him ..get your ass into gear.
I don't see starting Grigg as the sub as sending a message. A number of players had been sub during the course of the year. One being Ellis who is a Dimma favourite started as a sub a few times. So I am not quite sure it's a message at all.
I think finally dropping Foley (who's form had been average) for the final was sending a message.
But as I said to a group of footy mates the other week when we were talking about Hampson, no matter how poor their form we don't seem to drop players we've traded for, hence why I expect Hampson (unless injured) to play every game in 2014.
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The forward line, particularly our lack of dangerous quality small forwards, was our achilles' heel last year. Clearly, the club recognised this was a problem given our recruiting over the offseason, although the newbies are unknowns at AFL level at this stage. While Kingy (who IMO will retire at the end of this year) and Titch aren't the answer, it's too early to tell if any of the newbies are better replacements. You'd expect Lennon, as a first rounder, to come into the side early on as a HFF/FP but it's a tough ask to expect a first year kid to solve our poor ground level play and lack of crumbing goals in the forward line. McDonough is another I'm hoping will improve and start showing his ability up forward around the goals at AFL level. McBean is the tall forward option we obviously hope isn't affected by his injury to finally make his debut this year and take over from Az Edwards.
The other areas we need to improve are midfield depth, defensive structure and fitness. There are times in certain games when we go to sleep and the opposition gets a run-on of many consecutive centre clearances for 10 mins or more which results in a quick 4-5 goals against us. Even in some of our wins, it turns what should be solid comfortable win into one we have to fight for late in games. While I believe the natural development of our list with Conca, Ellis and Flossy building up their fitness and spending greater time in the centre rotation will help in that regard, I just don't put down to inexperience the elim final loss and others where we've been run over or chased down in the second half of games. We were physically shot as a team by the 3rd qtr. Peter Burge admitted he only had the team do 80% of his program last preseason as it was his first year in charge as our fitness and condition coordinator. He's said he's upping that to the full program this preseason so hopefully that helps on the fitness front in the second half of key games this year.
One last thing which the Club also acknowledges is we can't have Ivan doing the majority of the ruckwork every game. Whether we think Hampson is a spud or not, he was poached for this purpose. I still reckon TV will remain a significant part of the ruck rotation even though Dimma and co. have said they want him playing as a key forward.
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I agree with you here MT. Hampson and Maric in particular will need a great deal of coaching over the preseason on their contested marking (this is a major strength of Hampson though) and goal kicking (big focus for both). Also their leading and coordination with the other forwards will be crucial. I worry they will just try and kick it long to these two guys and we will become to one dimensional. If they can begin more at the 40m mark and push up the ground to act as link players I think this will work better. Ivans field kicking is surprisingly accurate.
Arnot could be valuable inclusion into the center if he can build up and tank and defensive mindset. He would be a tough opponent even if his role was to purely buffet and block. Gordan and Lloyd will be more important to our 2014 mid/forward depth than some recognize as yet. They were brought in the team to make an immediate impact so expect them to see more game time initially than Lennon.
I'm very interested to see what roles our new trades take next year because they will be given every opportunity early.
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I think Dimma showed his intentions on Grigg at least once this past season when he relegated him to substitute.i think that was a clear message to him ..get your ass into gear.
I don't see starting Grigg as the sub as sending a message. A number of players had been sub during the course of the year. One being Ellis who is a Dimma favourite started as a sub a few times. So I am not quite sure it's a message at all.
I think finally dropping Foley (who's form had been average) for the final was sending a message.
But as I said to a group of footy mates the other week when we were talking about Hampson, no matter how poor their form we don't seem to drop players we've traded for, hence why I expect Hampson (unless injured) to play every game in 2014.
pretty sure hardwick said around the time that grigg was being used as a sub was that he and grigg knew he could be be playing better, or words to that effect.
Using ellis as a sub would have been as much about fatigue management as anything, something not required for grigg, which was a large part of why we got him.
he was made sub because he was playing poorly, which is sending a message.
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Would love to know from anyone who has followed the pre season closely how Nathan is going.I have always rated him as absolutely crucial to us being a top side,challenging for the cup.
However his form late last season wasn't good,so I think this pre season is vital for him ,giving him a good fitness base something he certainly didn't have this past season
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Sadly he won't get back to his best
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How so chuck?
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Just reckon he is done and will only be a depth player now.
Would be interested to know how he is going at pre season though
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you think its his pace that has gone for good?
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you think its his pace that has gone for good?
I personally think Foley will be a big improver this year if he can stay fit. I've noticed a lot of people thinking he is just about finished but I recon with a big pre season he can get back to his best. And his best is pretty bloody good. I know he has had a serious injury but I just saw a few things in 2013 that showed me he was getting closer.
And if we are to 'bridge the gap' this year Axel Foley could play a pretty big part in that- he will be basically like a new recruit this year with a full pre season. I really hope for him, and us that he can get back to his best.
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you think its his pace that has gone for good?
I personally think Foley will be a big improver this year if he can stay fit. I've noticed a lot of people thinking he is just about finished but I recon with a big pre season he can get back to his best. And his best is pretty bloody good. I know he has had a serious injury but I just saw a few things in 2013 that showed me he was getting closer.
And if we are to 'bridge the gap' this year Axel Foley could play a pretty big part in that- he will be basically like a new recruit this year with a full pre season. I really hope for him, and us that he can get back to his best.
I hope you're right bigtone. I really do. :pray
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For us to really bridge the gap on the top sides next year we need to improve in a few areas which probably means we have to improve the personal in those positions.
For me it's the following
Grigg- wingman (I just think we can do better here, he gets plenty of the footy but I just think someone else could get that same amount of footy but with better foot skills and a harder edge)
Houli- rebounding back (bit unlucky to be here but I'm always concerned about his defending and his hardness) I personally think he could play on a wing or even in second rotation as a midfielder) but again I think we can do better in his position.
A. Edwards- third tall/lead up forward (like the way the kid plays but if we are to improve we have to get someone more damaging, IMO he goes missing too often, and not just at Richmond, he has been like that his whole career. Someone taller, a better mark and more agile when the ball hits the ground would really help our forward structure now with Vickory most likely to play at CHF. He is good at most things but not great at anything, other than kicking at goal)
King and S. Edwards- small forwards (both are best 22 at present but neither play that Eddie Betts, Balentine type of small forward that on their day can kick a bag of 5 or 6 to win you a game. Need another match winner in our forwardline to compliment Jack. Some extra X factor would be massive for our forwardline. At present IMO we are way to predictable down there.
So on paper my best 22 at this stage is
Morris Chaplin Grimes
Houli Rance Vlastuin
Grigg Foley Lids
A. Edwards Vickory Martin
King Jack Hampson
Maric Cotch Jackson
Newman Ellis S. Edwards Conca
So my questions are, who can you see replacing my 'suspect' players ASAP? (If you agree of course) Just remember though, the people you are going to replace them with need to be better NOW, not potentially better. We don't want to make our side any weaker in 2014
Is there anyone else you think we can do better than, currently best 22? And who would you replace them with?
And most importantly is Hardwick strong enough to make the tough call on some of these favourites?
geez i agree with all of that.
only part i disagree with is i think we have to play some of the kids and some of the mature recruits who show enough based on potential.
also i ve long believed we need another real big solid kpd and i really think we need a abig bodied strong marking kpf.
while i dont think it likely to happen im hoping two or three of the kids can force their way into the team from the get go and some of the many mature recruits can force their way in pretty quickly as well.
for me
b/ morris - chaplin - grimes
hb/ mcintosh - rance - vlastuin
c/ deledio - martin - ellis
hf/ mcdonough - riewoldt - gordon
f/ lloyd - vickery - hampson
r/ maric - jackson - cotchin
int/ lennon - knights - foley - helbig/ houli / grigg / miles.
i have no doubt what so ever if 3 or 4 of our kids cant step up and claim a regular spot along with 3 or 4 of our mature recruits we will go backwards.
i think the above team is more the way forward if they can show enough to get a game.
for me we really need players from the 09 and 2010 drafts to stake claims and improve and play some good footy in the seniors at some stage.
griffiths, dea, astbury from 09 helbig and batchelor from 2010.
chris knights can play we need him fit and to stay fit one more serious injury and id say hes caput.
Would love to know from anyone who has followed the pre season closely how Nathan is going.I have always rated him as absolutely crucial to us being a top side,challenging for the cup.
However his form late last season wasn't good,so I think this pre season is vital for him ,giving him a good fitness base something he certainly didn't have this past season
this may sound stupid but i think the way the game has gone in particular the last 5 yrs or so with so many big tall inside mids coming to the fore for most teams that nathans size has become a problem. small inside mid at 178/78 having to compete in the main against185cm + / 85kg + inside mids means hes up against it more and more.
to me nathans strengths was getting the ball at the bottom of the packs and with excellent hands dishing it out. i just dont think he has the body or size to effectively and consistently do that anymore.
its just an observation or something thats nagged at the back of the mind a bit that may be wrong.
i also think nathans foot skills as an outside player leave much to be desired. if fit his pace is a strength and if he could improve his delivery or improve his decision making maybe he could play on a wing he could do no worse than grigg in a lot of areas.
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Fingers crossed that Nathan bounces back ,because I think his role as an in and under is still there and just as important as ever.If he is able to get in and get the ball out to the likes of Cotch,martin,Lids we will run amok.
I agree his kicking is his Achilles heel(excuse the pun),but his height for the in and under role is a huge advantage over the taller mids that seem to be flavour of the month at the minute.
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Great points here claw. I agree with almost all of it.
for me
b/ morris - chaplin - grimes
hb/ mcintosh - rance - vlastuin
c/ deledio - martin - ellis
hf/ mcdonough - riewoldt - gordon
f/ lloyd - vickery - hampson
r/ maric - jackson - cotchin
int/ lennon - knights - foley - helbig/ houli / grigg / miles.
i think the above team is more the way forward if they can show enough to get a game.
for me we really need players from the 09 and 2010 drafts to stake claims and improve and play some good footy in the seniors at some stage.
griffiths, dea, astbury from 09 helbig and batchelor from 2010.
chris knights can play we need him fit and to stay fit one more serious injury and id say hes caput.
I think McIntosh should step aside for Houli in that team. He is a greatly under rated player to our forward forays. S.Edwards should also be include for mine over Lennon at this stage and Conca definitely over Helbig. All the 'Mc's' would have to step up to make the side so KIngy shoud return until he stops fulfilling his role adequately and I like you would love to see Griffith fight his way into the team.
this may sound stupid but i think the way the game has gone in particular the last 5 yrs or so with so many big tall inside mids coming to the fore for most teams that nathans size has become a problem. small inside mid at 178/78 having to compete in the main against185cm + / 85kg + inside mids means hes up against it more and more.
to me nathans strengths was getting the ball at the bottom of the packs and with excellent hands dishing it out. i just dont think he has the body or size to effectively and consistently do that anymore.
its just an observation or something thats nagged at the back of the mind a bit that may be wrong.
i also think nathans foot skills as an outside player leave much to be desired. if fit his pace is a strength and if he could improve his delivery or improve his decision making maybe he could play on a wing he could do no worse than grigg in a lot of areas.
I agree with you here particularly about his kicking. We will need to watch his ability to win the contested ball this season to see how he ranks compared to our younger ball winners.
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Foley should not be judged onq last season.
One of his legs was the size of a fourteen year old girl
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Why do many of you guys keep putting Lennon in your round one team?..he hasn't played a game of senior footy yet.
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Vlastuin Ellis conca martin etc. Were good enough for round one team (even if not selected)
Forward like types have gone mcgaune nahas whiteetc. Too
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I can understand the enthusiasm to pick these guys after a solid pre season and pre season games, but to select them before even a shot has been fired seems just a little odd for mine
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Why do many of you guys keep putting Lennon in your round one team?..he hasn't played a game of senior footy yet.
I expect that lennon will be nursed along much like Vlas was whilst early on, a few of the mature age recruits Banfield, Lloydy and Gordo get every chance to show their wares :shh
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Why do many of you guys keep putting Lennon in your round one team?..he hasn't played a game of senior footy yet.
I expect that lennon will be nursed along much like Vlas was whilst early on, a few of the mature age recruits Banfield, Lloydy and Gordo get every chance to show their wares :shh
Completely agree
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Why do many of you guys keep putting Lennon in your round one team?..he hasn't played a game of senior footy yet.
hope and wishful thinking. yes even i sometimes suffer from those ailments.
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I can understand the enthusiasm to pick these guys after a solid pre season and pre season games, but to select them before even a shot has been fired seems just a little odd for mine
Generally G, these days an early draft pick that has a reasonably mature body, is talented and grounded enough to get straight into the best 22 of most sides. Looking at past history of our early selections they have almost walked straight in and become solid contributors. Yes we are a better side now but we still have holes that are easily filled. lennon is of a good siize, has elite kicking skills which have stoodout this preseason, and would fill one of those holes so odds are you would assume he will be in early barring any fitness issues
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so we are looking to bridge the gap. most have said they would like to see changes especially lennon hampson and a few of the mature recruits. so waht did we actually do to bridge the gap.
looking at like for like delisted and recruited players.
1/ hampson v derickx. win. we replaced a 26yo ruck who could not get a game with an underperforming 26yo ruck who at least got games. how much of an upgrade he is who knows.
2/ lennon v verrier. win or it had damn well better be. you would hope with a top 12 pick you get a very good player. im not sure about lennons midfield credentials.
3/ gordon v mcguane . not really a like for like. we didnt replace mcguane for type that is tall forward.. gordon atm is a medium forward will he give as much as mcguane in the forward half.
4/ lloyd v nahas. again whos to say but again based on attributes its a win.
5/ petterd v petterd. a promoted rookie a decision that imo was wrong. we should be looking to upgrade the likes of petterd not promoting them.
6/ banfield v white. atm its fairly even i think banfield has more footy smarts. both have been ordinary.
7/ miles v lonergan . win imo the difference in skillset is large.lonergan has a better performance record at state level though. this kid is my smokie the more i look up on him the more i like.
8/ thomas v tuck. loss. tucky knew how to find the ball at afl level. cant say the same for thomas.
to bridge the gap we need to improve on, grigg, petterd,a edwards, s edwards, king, newman and houli,
we also need improvement from vickery morris, grimes, helbig arnot, and for knights to stay fit.
this coming season really is the make or break season. there are no excuses.
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Very balanced post baron con claws I :bow
Carrier was the worst kick I've seen. Lennon is apparently the best kick in his draft pool - should well be a win
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so we are looking to bridge the gap. most have said they would like to see changes especially lennon hampson and a few of the mature recruits. so waht did we actually do to bridge the gap.
looking at like for like delisted and recruited players.
1/ hampson v derickx. win. we replaced a 26yo ruck who could not get a game with an underperforming 26yo ruck who at least got games. how much of an upgrade he is who knows.
2/ lennon v verrier. win or it had damn well better be. you would hope with a top 12 pick you get a very good player. im not sure about lennons midfield credentials.
3/ gordon v mcguane . not really a like for like. we didnt replace mcguane for type that is tall forward.. gordon atm is a medium forward will he give as much as mcguane in the forward half.
4/ lloyd v nahas. again whos to say but again based on attributes its a win.
5/ petterd v petterd. a promoted rookie a decision that imo was wrong. we should be looking to upgrade the likes of petterd not promoting them.
6/ banfield v white. atm its fairly even i think banfield has more footy smarts. both have been ordinary.
7/ miles v lonergan . win imo the difference in skillset is large.lonergan has a better performance record at state level though. this kid is my smokie the more i look up on him the more i like.
8/ thomas v tuck. loss. tucky knew how to find the ball at afl level. cant say the same for thomas.
to bridge the gap we need to improve on, grigg, petterd,a edwards, s edwards, king, newman and houli,
we also need improvement from vickery morris, grimes, helbig arnot, and for knights to stay fit.
this coming season really is the make or break season. there are no excuses.
fair assessment, in my eyes.
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so we are looking to bridge the gap. most have said they would like to see changes especially lennon hampson and a few of the mature recruits. so waht did we actually do to bridge the gap.
looking at like for like delisted and recruited players.
1/ hampson v derickx. win. we replaced a 26yo ruck who could not get a game with an underperforming 26yo ruck who at least got games. how much of an upgrade he is who knows.
2/ lennon v verrier. win or it had damn well better be. you would hope with a top 12 pick you get a very good player. im not sure about lennons midfield credentials.
3/ gordon v mcguane . not really a like for like. we didnt replace mcguane for type that is tall forward.. gordon atm is a medium forward will he give as much as mcguane in the forward half.
4/ lloyd v nahas. again whos to say but again based on attributes its a win.
5/ petterd v petterd. a promoted rookie a decision that imo was wrong. we should be looking to upgrade the likes of petterd not promoting them.
6/ banfield v white. atm its fairly even i think banfield has more footy smarts. both have been ordinary.
7/ miles v lonergan . win imo the difference in skillset is large.lonergan has a better performance record at state level though. this kid is my smokie the more i look up on him the more i like.
8/ thomas v tuck. loss. tucky knew how to find the ball at afl level. cant say the same for thomas.
to bridge the gap we need to improve on, grigg, petterd,a edwards, s edwards, king, newman and houli,
we also need improvement from vickery morris, grimes, helbig arnot, and for knights to stay fit.
this coming season really is the make or break season. there are no excuses.
fair assessment, in my eyes.
Agreed, apart from the usual unwarranted Houli bashing.
Give it up Claw, he has improved his defensive side out of sight since he arrived. And yes, it was beyond poor at the beginning. Has developed into a very reliable defender who kicks very well, and runs all day. We are lucky he also has durability as a strength- have a good close look at our loss to North last year when he did not play and Ellis got hurt early on. Run from defence became non existant, we missed him greatly. His one on one defending is now at a decent level, your bias against him shows you did not watch him all that closely this year. He is a must in our starting 18 IMO. Only major fault is his lack of kicking ability on his right leg.
The rest of your post, pretty well agree
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It's called Conformation Bias
Our natural urge is to look for information that backs up what we already think, and ignore anything that goes against that view.
Humans aren't passive receivers of information, we look for cues that support our beliefs.
People will look for information that supports their existing views, because it actually makes them feel good. They think, "oh, I was right. I know this."
That increases their self esteem and we all do it.
Although some do it more than others.
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Agreed, apart from the usual unwarranted Houli bashing.
Give it up Claw, he has improved his defensive side out of sight since he arrived. And yes, it was beyond poor at the beginning. Has developed into a very reliable defender who kicks very well, and runs all day. We are lucky he also has durability as a strength- have a good close look at our loss to North last year when he did not play and Ellis got hurt early on. Run from defence became non existant, we missed him greatly. His one on one defending is now at a decent level, your bias against him shows you did not watch him all that closely this year. He is a must in our starting 18 IMO. Only major fault is his lack of kicking ability on his right leg.
Coudln't disagree more with this post. I watched Houli closely. He's awful , and he's very , very scared. Matty Knights knew what he was doing when he wouldn't give him a game at Essendon.
Until we upgrade blokes like him we won't be winning jack sh*t in September.
Watch his pathetic effort in the final against Carlton when he had the chance to put them to sword. He panicked ( as usual ) coughed the ball up with a horrendous turnover , Carlton rebounded and goaled. The goaled again and again and again. Bachar started the rot.
He should be playing permanently in the VFL
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One thing I like about you claw is you always have a strong opinion and always try and back it up with evidence and analysis. I don't always agree with you but I appreciate your efforts. :thumbsup
I agree with almost all your previous analysis but, like tigerfan, I think you harshly rate Houli. He's a much more important player to our structure and game plan than you acknowledge.
I think your White v Banfield comparison should be seen as a loss at this stage. As the year progressed, White showed he improved our team through his run and carry. I haven't seen Banfield do that for the Lions once.
I agree with your Petterd summary. Must have been a list management decision.
Thomas will be a solid contributor. I feel a better comparison would have been between Lonegan and Thomas. They are both ball winners and both battlers. Neither are in Tucks league or have his longevity at the highest level. Miles should be compared to Verrier. I think it is unfair to place an unknown in Lennon up against anyone. I hope you are right about Miles and I share your lofty expectations here.
The Nahas v Lloyd comparison may also be a bit difficult considering one has had years of AFL experience and periods of success compared to a state league player. I'm hopeful, actually more than hopeful, that Lloyd will become a better player for us than Nahas but to be fair Nahas has runs on the board where Lloyd just has potential on his side (and size, defensive pressure and marking capabilities but again all at the lower level).
:cheers
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Agreed, apart from the usual unwarranted Houli bashing.
Give it up Claw, he has improved his defensive side out of sight since he arrived. And yes, it was beyond poor at the beginning. Has developed into a very reliable defender who kicks very well, and runs all day. We are lucky he also has durability as a strength- have a good close look at our loss to North last year when he did not play and Ellis got hurt early on. Run from defence became non existant, we missed him greatly. His one on one defending is now at a decent level, your bias against him shows you did not watch him all that closely this year. He is a must in our starting 18 IMO. Only major fault is his lack of kicking ability on his right leg.
Coudln't disagree more with this post. I watched Houli closely. He's awful , and he's very , very scared. Matty Knights knew what he was doing when he wouldn't give him a game at Essendon.
Until we upgrade blokes like him we won't be winning jack sh*t in September.
Watch his pathetic effort in the final against Carlton when he had the chance to put them to sword. He panicked ( as usual ) coughed the ball up with a horrendous turnover , Carlton rebounded and goaled. The goaled again and again and again. Bachar started the rot.
He should be playing permanently in the VFL
Couldn't disagree more. Im with tigerfan1961 on this one. Think he's grossly maligned by tigerfans - poo sticks.
He was one of several that day that refused to have a ping at goal from outside 50, instead looking to hit a target inside 50. Had plenty of mates that day, the only reason his sticks out was he was on a longer run, but if you can bring yourself to watch a replay youll see 4 or 5 instances of this, was sending me round the twist - most of our "leaders" were MIA
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We can't afford to have both Houli & Grigg in the side IMO - out of the two I'd choose Houli every day of the week and twice on Friday.
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5/ petterd v petterd. a promoted rookie a decision that imo was wrong. we should be looking to upgrade the likes of petterd not promoting them.
It will only be a wrong decision if we continue the folly of playing him in defence. Should've still upgraded him with the intention of using him forward and then drafted Darcy Byrne-Jones with the pick we used on Gordon.
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We can't afford to have both Houli & Grigg in the side IMO - out of the two I'd choose Houli every day of the week and twice on Friday.
Grigg by the length of the Flemington straight....and twice on Friday ;D
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Squibbymcsquibsquibmcsquib
While we are at it grigg is in no danger of winning the most courageous award
:police:
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We can't afford to have both Houli & Grigg in the side IMO - out of the two I'd choose Houli every day of the week and twice on Friday.
Grigg by the length of the Flemington straight....and twice on Friday ;D
Grigg is absolute garbage. The day he's in the 2's is the day we will be a premiership threat. Luckily Cadeyn Macintosh is coming through for the wing role
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Grigg is absolute garbage. The day he's in the 2's is the day we will be a premiership threat. Luckily Cadeyn Macintosh is coming through for the wing role
I'm not a huge fan of Grigg either tbh but I think he's the least scared of the two...and that's saying something
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Grigg is absolute garbage. The day he's in the 2's is the day we will be a premiership threat. Luckily Cadeyn Macintosh is coming through for the wing role
I'm not a huge fan of Grigg either tbh but I think he's the least scared of the two...and that's saying something
They are both equally scared but at least Houli can hit a target over 20 metres and doesn't resort to helicoptering :D
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Grigg is absolute garbage. The day he's in the 2's is the day we will be a premiership threat. Luckily Cadeyn Macintosh is coming through for the wing role
I'm not a huge fan of Grigg either tbh but I think he's the least scared of the two...and that's saying something
They are both equally scared but at least Houli can hit a target over 20 metres and doesn't resort to helicoptering :D
Agree.....just can't have both Scooby & Shaggy on the field jumping at shadows during games....
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Grigg is absolute garbage. The day he's in the 2's is the day we will be a premiership threat. Luckily Cadeyn Macintosh is coming through for the wing role
I'm not a huge fan of Grigg either tbh but I think he's the least scared of the two...and that's saying something
They are both equally scared but at least Houli can hit a target over 20 metres and doesn't resort to helicoptering :D
Agree.....just can't have both Scooby & Shaggy on the field jumping at shadows during games....
Put it this way... I wouldn't care if a Grigg got sacked tomorrow in fact I'd be happy.
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Put it this way... I wouldn't care if a Grigg got sacked tomorrow in fact I'd be happy.
That's exactly how I feel about Houli. I'd throw a party !
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While both have questions marks.
Both very good vfl standard. Richmond reserves looking frightening :shh
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Put it this way... I wouldn't care if a Grigg got sacked tomorrow in fact I'd be happy.
That's exactly how I feel about Houli. I'd throw a party !
Houli is a good player
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Houli is a good player
Couldn't hold a candle to Grigga ! :cheers
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Ok, so there is a bit of a debate over Houli v Grigg. That's ok but until someone stands up and demands their spot in our best 22, at this stage they both stay IMO. But for how long who knows.
Now I have been thinking about my original question 'bridging the gap' and how we can achieve it. And without any of the pre season stuff being played yet, it's more based on the players we have seen, but with a bit of luck one of our new guys might be a standout in the next couple of months and push someone out.
One of the biggest questions for me is where is Lids (probably our most gifted player/athlete) most damaging for us? Most will say midfield but IMO he can be taken out of the game to easily by someone playing a tight tag on him. In that case he either doesn't get a kick or at best he is serviceable. We need better than that from all our mids if we are to 'bridge the gap' on the top four. And most coaches have realized this now or will pretty quickly in 2014. So what I would do with him is play him across halfback and move Houli to a wing. Lids won't get beaten it the air down back, can rebound as good as anyone in the game and just shores up our backline. A backline of
Morris Chaplin Grimes
Lids Rance Vlastuin
is pretty bloody solid! You have people who first and foremost can defend the footy, the cool heads of Chaplin and Vlastuin, the desperation of Morris and Grimes, and the rebound of Lids, Rance, Grimes and Vlastuin. As a group IMO they can be the best back 6 in the game.
Now what moving Lids to our backline does, other than shoring it up, is give us a chance to play/develop someone else through the midfield. Whether it be one of the new guys Gordon or Miles,(if they earn it in the pre season) or someone like Conca, Ellis, Houli, Vlastuin, Helbig, or Arnot to play more time in their. A Conca not being tagged in the middle would be just as damaging as a Lids being tagged in their. But with the bonus of Lids somewhere else.
Now all those mentioned have been at the club a while now and if they are to develop properly into genuine midfielders then they need a good go at it. Not just pinch hitting in there from time to time.
Someone like Helbig who we have tried as a halfback flanker with not much success could just be a genuine mid. Imagine trying to play Dane Swan across halfback, it just would work, he is a genuine mid and just needs to play there. Now I'm not saying Helbig is the man but sometimes a player like that cannot play (really well) anywhere else other than where they have played all their lives. And IMO Houli could be another one in the same boat??
Remember not every midfielder needs to be a tough, Trent Cotchin ball winning machine, some of the best midfielders of all time have been outsiders that just receive the footy out and deliver it down someone's throat.
Thoughts??
Now our forwardline is a different storey, but I'll talk about them another time, this post is starting to resemble one of Claws.... :lol
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Definitely has merit BT, Lids was a tad disappointing this season by his standards. If he hasn't cracked it as a bonafide top class mid who can break a tag by now, he probably wont. Agree he's played his best and most consistent footy down back and funnily enough I think Helbig (if he's going to make it) will do it as an inside mid, doesn't have the footskills to play off HB imo, so give him and Arnott as well as Gordon and Miles a chance to rotate through there, who knows we may just unearth a hidden gem.
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Hawthorn won the flag originally with hodge as a back pocket. Almost inventing a new position quarterback. Deledio has both the toughness and skills for this. Not a terrible idea. Tactical wise, the way the game is moving back line is almost the new midfield. With most attacks starting from this line
I still like deledio in the forward line. But I can see the theory of tanking the back line before building further up then ground.
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Houli has deficiencies, like most players, but I reckon he is a solid player and would get a gig at most clubs. Grigga is an average player who will hopefully be relegated to the twos soon.
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Houli has deficiencies, like most players, but I reckon he is a solid player and would get a gig at most clubs. Grigga is an average player who will hopefully be relegated to the twos soon.
Grigg has one big major asset and that is his ability to gut run and find space to be the "out" option. We need him performing that role, pure and simple.
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for all his deficiencies Griggs spread is very good. As is he running forward of the contest.
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The terms gut run and grigg seem anathema to each other...I reckon you could fire an intercontinental ballistic missile up griggys keester and he wouldn't gut run...just an opinion mind you
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Not gut running and certainly not running the other way to defend when required. Cotchin is probably only guy who does this like swans benchmark
But, running forward to get on to a kick over the top / spread is one of Briggs few positive attributes
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So what I would do with him is play him across halfback and move Houli to a wing The VFL
There , all fixed ;D