One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: one-eyed on September 29, 2009, 01:40:48 AM
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AFL players nervous ahead of national draft
Jon Anderson | Herald Sun September 29, 2009
ONLY the elite few at each club are untouchable. For the rest nervous times await. Some should be more nervous than others.
Mark 2009 down as the season when AFL clubs decided aggressive pre-draft trading was the way to go.
The unavailability of 17-year-olds, with the Gold Coast having access to the best 12 in the country, has recruiters declaring the November 26 national draft to be somewhat thin after the first 12-15 picks.
And that's where the trades come into play. If you can't find what you are looking for via the kids, go with what you know.
And it could involve established players such as Western Bulldog Brian Lake and Geelong's Mark Blake, despite the latter having played in his second straight AFL Grand Final with Geelong on Saturday.
The Western Bulldogs have told Lake and his management that he won't be traded under any circumstances.
With the parties believed to be up to $100,000 apart in salary talks, Lake is said to be willing to take his chances in the pre-season draft.
Which means Melbourne would get first crack at the 27-year-old full-back, who was recruited from Woodville-West Torrens in 2001 with pick 71.
That would mean the Bulldogs get nothing for a player who is a large part of their planning going into the 2010 premiership campaign.
It is hard to see it happening but, remember, Port Adelaide got nothing when Nick Stevens returned to Melbourne in 2004 and joined Carlton.
Blake is a different case, the 200cm ruckman refusing to sign the new contract offered during the season.
Seven weeks ago departure from Skilled Stadium seemed likely as Blake languished in the VFL, but when rookie Shane Mumford tired towards the end of the season the Cats turned to Blake to give them predictable results at stoppages.
Blake, Mumford and Trent West are all out of contract at Geelong, while giant project player Dawson Simpson has re-signed with the club.
Blake is building a house at Ocean Grove, but with 29-year-old Brad Ottens expected to play at least two more seasons, competition for rucking sports will remain intense.
On the subject of the Cats, don't rule out interest from them in Fremantle defender Marcus Drum, whose uncle Damian played with Geelong.
Geelong is keen to replenish its defensive stocks with Tom Harley, Darren Milburn and Matthew Scarlett part of an ageing defence.
Drum is 22 and was taken with pick 10 in the 2005 draft, so he won't come for nothing.
Carlton is another side desperate for defenders, hence its interest in West Coast's Matt Spangher and Andrejs Everitt of the Western Bulldogs.
Could we even see Chris Tarrant bob up in a Blues jumper, the 29-year-old having declared his interest in returning to Victoria. The expected retirement of Stevens will leave room in Carlton's salary cap.
Spangher is a Melbourne boy and wants to return home while Everitt is said to be seeking a change of environment after being overlooked by the Dogs for all three finals.
St Kilda's Matt Maguire is another defender who could create interest at the Blues, although as of yesterday he was said to be favouring Hawthorn or Essendon, both of which have shown keen interest.
The environmental change can also be applied to Fremantle's Brett Peake, who has made his intentions to begin again outside Perth very clear.
There has been some interest from Melbourne in the 26-year-old who boasts explosive running ability.
Now, to arguably the best credentialled player in trade talk: Port Adelaide's Shaun Burgoyne.
Almost 27, it has been a stunning fallout at Alberton Oval given earlier this year he was coach Mark Williams' preferred choice as captain.
Hawthorn has put pick No. 9 on the table for the sublimely skilled Burgoyne, Port responded by asking for pick No. 9 and Jordan Lewis. Lewis, though, does not want to leave Hawthorn and that deal won't be happening.
If other players from the Hawks become involved look for names such as Mitch Thorp and Ben McGlynn.
As for Josh Gibson, who has declared his intent on joining Hawthorn, pick No. 25 from the Hawks is said to be on the table.
Andrew Raines will leave Richmond for Brisbane for the Lions' third-round pick while Shane Tuck is another Tiger looking for a new club, probably somewhere who wants a player capable of winning contested ball.
Essendon and Andrew Lovett are expected to part company, with Sydney having shown some interest in a player who can break up a game with blistering pace.
Collingwood and Essendon could look at a Leon Davis-Lovett swap, although the former is 28 compared with 26 and the Bombers have been steadfast in pursuing their youth policy.
The Magpies have been fielding calls about 20-year-old key position players Nathan Brown and Ben Reid. Travis Cloke's name has also been raised.
In terms of players wanting to return to their home states, West Coast's Ben McKinley is a name that has surfaced again, the 184cm forward originally from Old Ivanhoe.
The biggest deal to be locked away is Brock McLean to Carlton with Melbourne getting pick 11.
Depending who you speak to, that is either a win-win or a plus for Melbourne, given McLean hasn't played his best football in the past two seasons.
The reality is he hasn't completed a pre-season in that period and the Blues know the improvement will come now he is free from injury.
Sydney is expected to take West Coast ruckman Mark Seaby for a second-round pick, while Brisbane has shown interest in Brent Staker.
Hawthorn continues to be a potential player with the names of Josh Kennedy and Jarryd Morton having roused interest from rival clubs.
POTENTIAL TRADES
ADELAIDE
Brent Reilly, Robert Shirley, Taylor Walker, Nick Gill
BRISBANE LIONS
Bradd Dalziell, Jamie Charman, Scott Harding, Rhan Hooper
CARLTON
Brendan Fevola, Andrew Walker, Brad Fisher, Adam Bentick
COLLINGWOOD
Leon Davis, Travis Cloke, Chris Dawes, Ben Reid
ESSENDON
Andrew Lovett, Jason Laycock, Jay Nash, David Myers
FREMANTLE
Chris Tarrant, Marcus Drum, Steven Dodd, Ryan Murphy
GEELONG
Mark Blake, Kane Tenace, Trent West, Ryan Gamble
HAWTHORN
Beau Dowler, Mitchell Thorp, Mark Williams, Rick Ladson
MELBOURNE
Clint Bartram, Brock McLean, Paul Johnson, Brad Miller
NORTH MELBOURNE
David Hale, Daniel Harris, Corey Jones, Sam Power
PORT ADELAIDE
Brett Ebert, Shaun Burgoyne, Danyle Pearce, Justin Westhoff
RICHMOND
Adam Pattison, Jordan McMahon, Jay Schulz, Jarrad Oakley-Nicholls
ST KILDA
Raphael Clarke, Luke Ball, Matt Maguire, Stephen Milne
SYDNEY
Barry Hall, Nick Malceski, Henry Playfair, Ryan Brabazon
WEST COAST
Ashley Hansen, Ben McKinley, Mark Seaby, Matt Spangher
WESTERN BULLDOGS
Andrejs Everitt, Guy O'Keefe, Cameron Wight, Wayde Skipper
Note: The Herald Sun nominates these players as potential trades and is not stating they will be traded.
WIN/WIN
1993 Nathan Buckley (right) to Collingwood from Brisbane Lions for pick 12 (Chris Scott)
1997 Wayne Schwass to Sydney Swans, Shannon Grant to North Melbourne
1999 Brett Montgomery to Port Adelaide, Nathan Eagleton to Western Bulldogs
2001 Damien Hardwick to Port Adelaide from Essendon for pick 47 (Andrew Welsh)
Barry Hall to Sydney from St Kilda for pick 13 (Nick Dal Santo)
2006 Chris Tarrant to Fremantle from Collingwood for Paul Medhurst and pick 8 (Ben Reid)
WIN/LOSS
1995 Craig Davenport to Carlton from St Kilda for pick 19 (Barry Hall)
2000 Evan Hewitt to Adelaide from North Melbourne for pick 23 (Drew Petrie)
2002 Nick Davis to Sydney from Collingwood for pick 21 (Bo Nixon)
2003 Jason Gram to St Kilda from Brisbane for pick 23 (Matthew Moody)
2004 Brad Ottens to Geelong from Richmond for picks 12 and 16 (Danny Meyer and Adam Pattison)
Chad Morrison to Collingwood from West Coast for pick 37 (Mark LeCras)
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/national-draft-keeps-afl-players-on-toes/story-e6frf9jf-1225780649354
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David Myers from Essendon would be a VERY good get if he is on the table.
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David Myers from Essendon would be a VERY good get if he is on the table.
Totally agree!
Also Gamble and McKinley would be very good long term players.
Gamble could be anything imo.
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David Myers from Essendon would be a VERY good get if he is on the table.
Yes agree 100%. Of that list only David Myers is worth pursuing and we should do so. Young and highly skilled. Heard that he has had a big growth spurt. If this is true he could become a very good CHB option. Rance and Myers could become a very handy FB and CHB pairing.
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The Saints have also been linked with Jordan McMahon from Richmond, with the Tigers also likely to offer up 2005 number eight pick Jarrad Oakley-Nicholls, according to The Australian.
http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/85452/default.aspx
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David Myers from Essendon would be a VERY good get if he is on the table.
Totally agree!
Also Gamble and McKinley would be very good long term players.
Gamble could be anything imo.
I would be super pleased if we picked up McKinley in the PSD, but that is unlikely... I would think we would end up with Mitch Thorp or McKinley
There could be a plethora of disenfranchised players in the PSD, hopefully one slips to us.
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RICHMOND
Adam Pattison, Jordan McMahon, Jay Schulz, Jarrad Oakley-Nicholls
How could any team resist those names! Get ready for the first rounders to roll in next week!
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I'm on the Myers bandwagon too! I'd even entertain giving the Bombers our third rounder that we get for Raines. :pray
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RICHMOND
Adam Pattison, Jordan McMahon, Jay Schulz, Jarrad Oakley-Nicholls
How could any team resist those names! Get ready for the first rounders to roll in next week!
The scarey thing is they were considered first rounders when originally drafted :o :P
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The Saints have also been linked with Jordan McMahon from Richmond, with the Tigers also likely to offer up 2005 number eight pick Jarrad Oakley-Nicholls, according to The Australian.
http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/85452/default.aspx
i have heard that St Kilda may need to get bigger. so looking at those two might not be ideal for them.
however, i will hoping that St Kilda are silly enough to take them two.
a St Kilda second round pick for them two would be fantastic!
:)
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RICHMOND
Adam Pattison, Jordan McMahon, Jay Schulz, Jarrad Oakley-Nicholls
How could any team resist those names! Get ready for the first rounders to roll in next week!
The scarey thing is they were considered first rounders when originally drafted :o :P
Right up to when they put on the RFC jumper. And who said we cannot develop players! :lol
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RICHMOND
Adam Pattison, Jordan McMahon, Jay Schulz, Jarrad Oakley-Nicholls
How could any team resist those names! Get ready for the first rounders to roll in next week!
The scarey thing is they were considered first rounders when originally drafted :o :P
And that is what I have been trying to get accross all along with this re-building brainwashing. While I admit that we do need to keep our early picks for youth I also believe we shouldn't put all our eggs into one basket. If we use our late round picks on players like the above mentioned where we could of used them (some of them) to trade for players such as Davey, Lake, Lovett, Spangher etc... then we could actually end up worse off...... IMO
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David Myers from Essendon would be a VERY good get if he is on the table.
Yes agree 100%. Of that list only David Myers is worth pursuing and we should do so. Young and highly skilled. Heard that he has had a big growth spurt. If this is true he could become a very good CHB option. Rance and Myers could become a very handy FB and CHB pairing.
Yes, saw a fair bit of him as a junior and in the league side, a highly skilled Terry Daniher type with marking ability, good pace, neat disposal and true leadership quality.
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So if this Myers fellow is so good and everone wants him, then why doesn't the team he is with wan't him?? Reaks of Thompson & Hislop for mine!!
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So if this Myers fellow is so good and everone wants him, then why doesn't the team he is with wan't him?? Reaks of Thompson & Hislop for mine!!
That's as much insight as wanting to trade for Davey, Spangher & Nickoski. :o
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Myers was terrific as a junior. Suffered some injuries since being at Essendon. Big RFC supporter as a kid. He is a quality young player and if he is available we should nab him.
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So if this Myers fellow is so good and everone wants him, then why doesn't the team he is with wan't him?? Reaks of Thompson & Hislop for mine!!
That's as much insight as wanting to trade for Davey, Spangher & Nickoski. :o
My comments on those 3 were said with .. ::) :whistle, so leave that out of it.
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Myers was terrific as a junior. Suffered some injuries since being at Essendon. Big RFC supporter as a kid. He is a quality young player and if he is available we should nab him.
Because????????? Wasn't Casserly a massive Tigers supporter as a kid?? All I want to know is why would we take this guy, if he is available, over an experienced player or why should we take him anyway. Wasn't 1 failed Myers (Meyer) enough.... :whistle
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Myers was terrific as a junior. Suffered some injuries since being at Essendon. Big RFC supporter as a kid. He is a quality young player and if he is available we should nab him.
Because????????? Wasn't Casserly a massive Tigers supporter as a kid?? All I want to know is why would we take this guy, if he is available, over an experienced player or why should we take him anyway. Wasn't 1 failed Myers (Meyer) enough.... :whistle
Myers has proven that he can play in the top level. In his first season in 2008 he played 8 quality matches before a stress fracture in his foot halted his progress. In the 14 matches he has played in total, he has had 182 disposals, made 32 tackles, 48 marks and as a backman even bagged a couple of goals. Pretty respectable stats for a youngster if you ask me. I would be thrilled if we could get him to Tigerland! :pray
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Myers was Pick 6 in the Cotchin Draft was easily the best WA player in his TAC Cup year ahead of Palmer.
The kid is a fine fine player, has had a similar run of injuries as Cotchin, just hasn't been able to string consecutive months on the training track.
I'd seriously doubt Essendon would let him go for anything lower than a top 20 pick.
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Myers was Pick 6 in the Cotchin Draft was easily the best WA player in his TAC Cup year ahead of Palmer.
The kid is a fine fine player, has had a similar run of injuries as Cotchin, just hasn't been able to string consecutive months on the training track.
I'd seriously doubt Essendon would let him go for anything lower than a top 20 pick.
Pope what about Tuck for Myers straight swap?? I'd do it!
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Myers was Pick 6 in the Cotchin Draft was easily the best WA player in his TAC Cup year ahead of Palmer.
The kid is a fine fine player, has had a similar run of injuries as Cotchin, just hasn't been able to string consecutive months on the training track.
I'd seriously doubt Essendon would let him go for anything lower than a top 20 pick.
Pope what about Tuck for Myers straight swap?? I'd do it!
Sounds good to me!!! Where do i sign. :thumbsup
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RICHMOND
Adam Pattison, Jordan McMahon, Jay Schulz, Jarrad Oakley-Nicholls
How could any team resist those names! Get ready for the first rounders to roll in next week!
The scarey thing is they were considered first rounders when originally drafted :o :P
Which Draft ? The National Netball Draft you mean, all four play like woman and offer nothing!
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Myers was Pick 6 in the Cotchin Draft was easily the best WA player in his TAC Cup year ahead of Palmer.
The kid is a fine fine player, has had a similar run of injuries as Cotchin, just hasn't been able to string consecutive months on the training track.
I'd seriously doubt Essendon would let him go for anything lower than a top 20 pick.
Pope what about Tuck for Myers straight swap?? I'd do it!
I dont think Essendon would go for it sadly. Would be a massive massive win for Richmond if it did happen.
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Myers was Pick 6 in the Cotchin Draft was easily the best WA player in his TAC Cup year ahead of Palmer.
The kid is a fine fine player, has had a similar run of injuries as Cotchin, just hasn't been able to string consecutive months on the training track.
I'd seriously doubt Essendon would let him go for anything lower than a top 20 pick.
Pope what about Tuck for Myers straight swap?? I'd do it!
I dont think Essendon would go for it sadly. Would be a massive massive win for Richmond if it did happen.
Agreed Essendon are on a youth kick now and with Lloyd retiring their squad is even younger on average now even with Dustin Fletcher remaining at Windy Hill. Alas also they have a slow in and under player with poor disposal in Jobe Watson. Can they afford to have to of the same type of player on their list? Who are we kidding? ;)
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Brent Reilly (Adel)
Bradd Dalziell (Bris)
Brendan Fevola (Carl)
David Myers (Ess)
Mitchell Thorp (Haw)
Ben McKinley (W.C)
i think maybe these players we should look at if available in the Pre-Season Draft.
i do not want us to trade way picks, continue delisting some more players and maybe look at these players.
:)
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Some of those players are still contracted. There's no way they'd go to the PSD.
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Myers was terrific as a junior. Suffered some injuries since being at Essendon. Big RFC supporter as a kid. He is a quality young player and if he is available we should nab him.
Because????????? Wasn't Casserly a massive Tigers supporter as a kid?? All I want to know is why would we take this guy, if he is available, over an experienced player or why should we take him anyway. Wasn't 1 failed Myers (Meyer) enough.... :whistle
Is that the best you got ? Retrospective sarcasm & all in a name cos you obviously don't have knowledge on the kid ... pfft ... trade week list managers
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I don't remember Casserley being a big tigers fan, Gilmore definitely was
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Brent Reilly (Adel)
Bradd Dalziell (Bris)
Brendan Fevola (Carl)
David Myers (Ess)
Mitchell Thorp (Haw)
Ben McKinley (W.C)
i think maybe these players we should look at if available in the Pre-Season Draft.
i do not want us to trade way picks, continue delisting some more players and maybe look at these players.
:)
Hampson from Carlton has also been one name of interest that has been put out there lately. Griffen from Adelaide also another one. Our ruck stocks are rubbish. And these two are ones Id look at as well if.
Id like to see us target Myer, Hampson, Griffen and Farmer. These satisfy list needs for us. Besides this group I wouldnt bother with the rest.
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RICHMOND
Adam Pattison, Jordan McMahon, Jay Schulz, Jarrad Oakley-Nicholls
How could any team resist those names! Get ready for the first rounders to roll in next week!
Yep you could wrap all four up as a package deal and still struggle to get a pick under 100
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RICHMOND
Adam Pattison, Jordan McMahon, Jay Schulz, Jarrad Oakley-Nicholls
How could any team resist those names! Get ready for the first rounders to roll in next week!
Yep you could wrap all four up as a package deal and still struggle to get a pick under 100
Pattison cost us pick 16
McMahon cost us pick 19
Schulz cost us pick 8 from memory and
JON also cost us pick 8.
And then we wonder why we are down the bottom.
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RICHMOND
Adam Pattison, Jordan McMahon, Jay Schulz, Jarrad Oakley-Nicholls
How could any team resist those names! Get ready for the first rounders to roll in next week!
Yep you could wrap all four up as a package deal and still struggle to get a pick under 100
Given how valuable list spots are for all clubs, you'd probably have to offer our 2nd rounder to a club to take them all off our hands
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RICHMOND
Adam Pattison, Jordan McMahon, Jay Schulz, Jarrad Oakley-Nicholls
How could any team resist those names! Get ready for the first rounders to roll in next week!
Yep you could wrap all four up as a package deal and still struggle to get a pick under 100
Pattison cost us pick 16
McMahon cost us pick 19
Schulz cost us pick 8 from memory and
JON also cost us pick 8.
And then we wonder why we are down the bottom.
very very true
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:(
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RICHMOND
Adam Pattison, Jordan McMahon, Jay Schulz, Jarrad Oakley-Nicholls
How could any team resist those names! Get ready for the first rounders to roll in next week!
Yep you could wrap all four up as a package deal and still struggle to get a pick under 100
Pattison cost us pick 16
McMahon cost us pick 19
Schulz cost us pick 8 from memory and
JON also cost us pick 8.
And then we wonder why we are down the bottom.
What makes this worse is we usually have so few draft picks year after year that every poor choice or decision is magnified. If we had 6 picks each year and a couple of them bombed then we would've still found 3 or 4 kids each year to rebuild our list. When we only have a couple of picks to begin with and they bomb then the whole draft ends up being a failure. So it's not just poor recruiting in the November draft but it's not having a clue about proper list management to begin with despite experiencing 23 drafts and witnessing how other clubs do it. We never learnt from our mistakes and just kept repeating them groundhog day style :help.
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RICHMOND
Adam Pattison, Jordan McMahon, Jay Schulz, Jarrad Oakley-Nicholls
How could any team resist those names! Get ready for the first rounders to roll in next week!
Yep you could wrap all four up as a package deal and still struggle to get a pick under 100
Pattison cost us pick 16
McMahon cost us pick 19
Schulz cost us pick 8 from memory and
JON also cost us pick 8.
And then we wonder why we are down the bottom.
What makes this worse is we usually have so few draft picks year after year that every poor choice or decision is magnified. If we had 6 picks each year and a couple of them bombed then we would've still found 3 or 4 kids each year to rebuild our list. When we only have a couple of picks to begin with and they bomb then the whole draft ends up being a failure. So it's not just poor recruiting in the November draft but it's not having a clue about proper list management to begin with despite experiencing 23 drafts and witnessing how other clubs do it. We never learnt from our mistakes and just kept repeating them groundhog day style :help.
Ages ago Dennis Pagan said that footy wasn't a character building exercise it was a weeding exercise between those that did have it and those that didn't.
I read that Geelong only had a 50% strike rate with its picks over the 1999-2001 era on the tiger-talk yahoo group.
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/tiger-talk/message/92436
But it kept a lot of picks and chose lots of new kids especially with 2nd and 3rd round draft picks.
1999 - 8 picks - 4 hits - Corey, Chapman, Ling, Enright.
So far only Corey was selected as their first selection and Chapman was their 5th selection in that draft. Ling their 6th and Enright their 7th.
2000 - 3 draft picks - 1 hit - Josh Hunt (tho Rook was a rookie)
2001 - 8 draft picks - 4 hits - Bartel, Kelly, Johnson and Ablett (F/S)
So the lesson is trade more daft picks and pick many kids and see which ones have the character and ability to make it. Saying that Pagan was a hopeless development coach at Carlton.
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hmm a little misleading to infer chapman was their 5rh selection that implies he went in the 5th rnd.
corey went at 8 chapman at 31 ling at 38 enright at 47. they traded for mooney that yr as well when leigh colberet decided to leave. i think they got mooney pick 15 17 and pick 47 and gave up colbert pick 53 and pick 67.interestingly they got picks 15 and 17 wrong.
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hmm a little misleading to infer chapman was their 5rh selection that implies he went in the 5th rnd.
corey went at 8 chapman at 31 ling at 38 enright at 47. they traded for mooney that yr as well when leigh colberet decided to leave. i think they got mooney pick 15 17 and pick 47 and gave up colbert pick 53 and pick 67.interestingly they got picks 15 and 17 wrong.
That wasn't the point of the article. The point was that Geelong succeeded with a policy of having a lot of picks and increasing the chances of getting some right. Add to that some good research by their football department and some plain old luck (above average run of father/sons) and the rest is history. And that is what the original poster on tiger-talk is suggesting we do - cast our net wide and law of averages says we will get some good players.
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hmm a little misleading to infer chapman was their 5rh selection that implies he went in the 5th rnd.
corey went at 8 chapman at 31 ling at 38 enright at 47. they traded for mooney that yr as well when leigh colberet decided to leave. i think they got mooney pick 15 17 and pick 47 and gave up colbert pick 53 and pick 67.interestingly they got picks 15 and 17 wrong.
That wasn't the point of the article. The point was that Geelong succeeded with a policy of having a lot of picks and increasing the chances of getting some right. Add to that some good research by their football department and some plain old luck (above average run of father/sons) and the rest is history. And that is what the original poster on tiger-talk is suggesting we do - cast our net wide and law of averages says we will get some good players.
i understood the point quite well thank you. it was made to sound like geelong used heaps of late picks that yr when the reality was the bulk of them was 3rd rnd or better. in fact have a look at their premiership side i think 17 were taken 3rd rnd or better. then there was the trades mooney harley and ottens and rookies byrnes and rooke to round out the 22.
while i agree we need to use many picks i think when comparing to geelong we need to not distort exactly what picks were taken. geelong are proof that top 50 picks or picks in the first 3 rounds are paramount.we need to ofload as many players as possible for picks in this area if we are to duplicate what geelong are about.
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i understood the point quite well thank you. it was made to sound like geelong used heaps of late picks that yr when the reality was the bulk of them was 3rd rnd or better.
Please point out where this was stated or inferred.
"But it kept a lot of picks and chose lots of new kids especially with 2nd and 3rd round draft picks." Doesn't state or infer "heaps of late picks" to me.
in fact have a look at their premiership side i think 17 were taken 3rd rnd or better. then there was the trades mooney harley and ottens and rookies byrnes and rooke to round out the 22.
The post was about how Geelong rounded out their premiership winning list with a large number of picks - nothing to do with where all their list was picked up at/from. It only mentioned 9 successful picks from 19 over 3 years. Their premiership team was built over many more years than that so to put all those successful picks up as your argument against the original point is not fair or relevant.
while i agree we need to use many picks i think when comparing to geelong we need to not distort exactly what picks were taken. geelong are proof that top 50 picks or picks in the first 3 rounds are paramount.we need to ofload as many players as possible for picks in this area if we are to duplicate what geelong are about.
Agree wholeheartedly but part of that duplication is to accept that quantity is just as important as quality. We have had a significantly larger number of top picks over recent years then most but without large numbers of picks in total and less application of 'nouse' we have only had very average successes. Just the point of the original poster.
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i understood the point quite well thank you. it was made to sound like geelong used heaps of late picks that yr when the reality was the bulk of them was 3rd rnd or better.
Please point out where this was stated or inferred.
"But it kept a lot of picks and chose lots of new kids especially with 2nd and 3rd round draft picks." Doesn't state or infer "heaps of late picks" to me.
in fact have a look at their premiership side i think 17 were taken 3rd rnd or better. then there was the trades mooney harley and ottens and rookies byrnes and rooke to round out the 22.
The post was about how Geelong rounded out their premiership winning list with a large number of picks - nothing to do with where all their list was picked up at/from. It only mentioned 9 successful picks from 19 over 3 years. Their premiership team was built over many more years than that so to put all those successful picks up as your argument against the original point is not fair or relevant.
while i agree we need to use many picks i think when comparing to geelong we need to not distort exactly what picks were taken. geelong are proof that top 50 picks or picks in the first 3 rounds are paramount.we need to ofload as many players as possible for picks in this area if we are to duplicate what geelong are about.
Agree wholeheartedly but part of that duplication is to accept that quantity is just as important as quality. We have had a significantly larger number of top picks over recent years then most but without large numbers of picks in total and less application of 'nouse' we have only had very average successes. Just the point of the original poster.
quite clearly to state chapman was their 5th pick it can be implied he was a 5th rounder ditto with the ling and enright statement.
the majority of the geelong list was built in 99 and 01 there was no rounding out about it at all. whilst i agree with useing as many picks as possible and have for a long time it is important to learn where most of the decent players come from and in what quantity.the comparisons where players are taken as a whole is very relevant. its relevant because it shows us how to go about it.
unfortunately for us we have so many glass half full types that at the moment we are better of taking a punt on a kid with a late pick rather than keep the mediocre performer it cant get any worse.
as for quantity ive often stated if you need a couple of kpfs for instance but with your 1st and 2nd rounder the mids are to good to knock back take a tall next but load up late take a couple in the rookie ldraft take one late in other words target the area take 3 or 4 in the hope of finding one decent one.yep theres nothing wrong with lots of picks if done right.
at the end of 07 i knew cotchin was coming to us he was in the top 2 players easily. i had pears and collier two kpds pencilled in at 18 19. of course rance slipped and we took him if we had 19 i would have taken pears targeting one area and then not having to worry about it the following draft.
one of the biggest crimes if you like is wallace and millers stupidity in useing just 3 nd pick in 3 out of 5 drafts. the annoying thing you always cop na its alright its a shallow draft.
finally one reason im all for many nd picks is the number that i think has to go. i make no bones about saying as many as 28 over 3yrs has to go. i would rather replinish the list with as many picks as possible in the first three rounds the geelong example is there for all to see.
anyway i think we agree on most things spoken about what we disagree on is the inference of the post in question which i hope i have cleared up at the start of this post.
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Please point out where this was stated or inferred.
"But it kept a lot of picks and chose lots of new kids especially with 2nd and 3rd round draft picks." Doesn't state or infer "heaps of late picks" to me.
the majority of the geelong list was built in 99 and 01 there was no rounding out about it at all. whilst i agree with useing as many picks as possible and have for a long time it is important to learn where most of the decent players come from and in what quantity.the comparisons where players are taken as a whole is very relevant. its relevant because it shows us how to go about it.
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anyway i think we agree on most things spoken about what we disagree on is the inference of the post in question which i hope i have cleared up at the start of this post.
Yes we do agree on most of these things but ............ "cleared up"? What the?
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Please point out where this was stated or inferred.
Yes we do agree on most of these things but ............ "cleared up"? What the?
sheesh
this is the original quote
1999 - 8 picks - 4 hits - Corey, Chapman, Ling, Enright.
So far only Corey was selected as their first selection and Chapman was their 5th selection in that draft. Ling their 6th and Enright their 7th.
this is my replyhmm a little misleading to infer chapman was their 5rh selection that implies he went in the 5th rnd.
corey went at 8 chapman at 31 ling at 38 enright at 47. they traded for mooney that yr as well when leigh colberet decided to leave. i think they got mooney pick 15 17 and pick 47 and gave up colbert pick 53 and pick 67.interestingly they got picks 15 and 17 wrong.
clearly to say chapman was a 5th selection inferrs he was a 5th round pick a late pick when in fact he went 31 a second round pick. ditto with ling and entright the inference was they were 6th and 7th selections or 6th and 7th rnd picks.
you may not see it but i do so we will have to agree to disagree.
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you may not see it but i do so we will have to agree to disagree.
And that's about as good as it's going to get I think. :thumbsup