One-Eyed Richmond Forum

Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: one-eyed on October 16, 2009, 03:52:27 AM

Title: Bradshaw
Post by: one-eyed on October 16, 2009, 03:52:27 AM
Still out of contract and could head into the PSD.

Carlton want him if Bradshaw does leave the Lions but he'd have to bypass 9 clubs to get to their pick 10.

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/rfnews/carlton-may-snare-bradshaw/2009/10/15/1255195876572.html

Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: Tigermonk on October 16, 2009, 12:10:44 PM
& l hope Richmond is one of them clubs to bypass Bradshaw
Title: Daniel Bradshaw quits Brisbane Lions (Courier Mail)
Post by: one-eyed on October 16, 2009, 03:26:39 PM
Daniel Bradshaw quits Brisbane Lions
Andrew Hamilton
October 16, 2009 02:02pm

BREAKING NEWS: BRISBANE Lions champion goalkicker Daniel Bradshaw is poised to quit the club.

Bradshaw, 30, was offered as trade bait by the Lions when the club was trying to sign Carlton full-forward Brendan Fevola last week.

It is understood Bradshaw, who has won two premierships and kicked 496 goals in 222 games for the club, is on his way back to Brisbane from Wodonga and will meet club officials tomorrow.

More soon

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,26218132-952,00.html
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: WA Tiger on October 16, 2009, 04:24:00 PM
Mmmm, still kicking bags of goals at 30, might fill in for a couple of years until we develop/find our forward and Riewoldt steps up, PROVIDED WE DO NOT WASTE AN EARLY DRAFT PICK ON HIM...
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: bushranger on October 16, 2009, 04:24:27 PM
He could be a good 2 year deal, if Richo decides to pull the pin.
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: WA Tiger on October 16, 2009, 04:27:52 PM
He could be a good 2 year deal, if Richo decides to pull the pin.

Could still be a 2 year deal IMO, one year with both he and Richo and the next-his last continuing the mentoring role with our forwards.. :thumbsup
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: bushranger on October 16, 2009, 04:30:23 PM
I could easily go for that to. Now let the club know what we think.
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: WA Tiger on October 16, 2009, 05:06:46 PM
I could easily go for that to. Now let the club know what we think.

Jackstar will be right onto it... ::)
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: Mr Magic on October 16, 2009, 05:53:37 PM
Aah no.
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: one-eyed on October 16, 2009, 06:25:25 PM
The news tonight says Sydney are interested and they have a PSD pick before Carlton does.
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: bushranger on October 16, 2009, 06:49:31 PM
I reckon he could be a really handy pick up for us on a short term contract.
He would help Richo to be a freer player with him in our forward line.
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: Smokey on October 16, 2009, 07:38:17 PM
The news tonight says Sydney are interested and they have a PSD pick before Carlton does.

He would be a top pick-up for Sydney.
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: tigersalive on October 16, 2009, 07:54:37 PM
I could easily go for that to. Now let the club know what we think.

Who made you spokesman!?   ::)    ;) ;D
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: bushranger on October 16, 2009, 08:07:11 PM
Just little old me.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: Hellenic Tiger on October 16, 2009, 10:50:15 PM
Too old for our side. We are not in a position to top up for a flag where he will be more than handy. Best for the team in the position Bradshaw plays we play one of our kids and develop him and hopefully he turns into a star. Vickery/Post could play that role just for the sake of this conversation .
In two years they may have developed so much and they'll still have 10 years of footy left in two years Bradshaw will be retired  more than likely. I'll take the punt on Post Vickery or a kid we might draft this year. The benefits long term far outweigh the brief stint Bradshaw could be at our footy club.
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: cub on October 16, 2009, 10:54:29 PM
Not for us .....
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: Gigantor on October 16, 2009, 10:58:41 PM
very injury prone of late.maybe not the right fit for us  just now
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: Francois Jackson on October 16, 2009, 11:17:18 PM
thats a negative for me

Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: torch on October 16, 2009, 11:36:14 PM
No!

:)
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: Rodgerramjet on October 17, 2009, 02:33:41 AM
No!

:)

+1
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: Ramps on October 17, 2009, 10:00:56 AM
Are there any ruckmen out of contract? If we could force a decent ruckman into the PSD that would be handy.
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: WA Tiger on October 17, 2009, 12:34:21 PM
Yeah good idea, lets get no experience (for nothing I might add) to the club to teach the young guys, lets wait for Cuz, Richo and the like to retire, then we can bag the crap out of all the young guys for under performing.  ::)

GREAT IDEA.
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: Infamy on October 17, 2009, 01:54:59 PM
Yeah good idea, lets get no experience (for nothing I might add) to the club to teach the young guys, lets wait for Cuz, Richo and the like to retire, then we can bag the crap out of all the young guys for under performing.  ::)

GREAT IDEA.
Sounds like a brilliant idea to me, we don't need any more older players
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: tdy on October 18, 2009, 11:06:50 AM
Yeah good idea, lets get no experience (for nothing I might add) to the club to teach the young guys, lets wait for Cuz, Richo and the like to retire, then we can bag the crap out of all the young guys for under performing.  ::)

GREAT IDEA.

For me he is too old.  He would only have one year in him I suspect.  If i were to go for an experienced player I would pick a 25 year old like Luke Ball, a known good player in the correct age bracket.  All teams trade for experienced players but we aren't in a position to need experience as we aren't in premiership mode and won't be for 3 years at the earliest.  I would rather we keep the draft picks, draft 8 or more a year and hope we get a 50% hit rate like Geelong did.  Only trading for the odd experienced player who we know is a good get and who will be around during the premiership window.  Not periphery players or too old players.  That appears to be the way to build a good list.
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: Penelope on October 18, 2009, 12:00:21 PM
According to the Age, both Sydney and Carlton are offering three years deals.
http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/rfnews/swans-1m-play-for-lion/2009/10/17/1255624770662.html
Carlton put him through a medical when he was proposed as a trade for Fevola. Would seem strange to offer a three year contract if they didn't think his body would hold out that long.

Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: WA Tiger on October 18, 2009, 12:55:33 PM
What I can't understand is this; Melbourne and Richmond will have first shot at Ball and Bradshaw in the PSD unless there is an agreement made between clubs to let the player slide through to them.

Now if Ball and/or Bradshaw is available in the PSD we should take one of them IMO, I cant remember the player but years ago a high profile player was picked up at about pick 4 in the PSD because they put such a high price on his head that no one else could touch him.

But what I can't understand now is how the hell do the Lions or the Blues think they can say that they will be picking these players up in the PSD when we or Melbourne and us will have first crack. Regardless of where the player wants to go they will end up at the club with first pick end of story. Years ago Stevens nominated Collingwood as his club, he went into the PSD and the Blues said they would take him regardless, he wasn't happy but hey the rest is history.

Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: WilliamPowell on October 18, 2009, 12:59:22 PM
I think Carlton & Brisbane are hoping both players nominate for the National Draft and would use their ealry picks in the Nat Draft on them.
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: WA Tiger on October 18, 2009, 01:02:57 PM
I think Carlton & Brisbane are hoping both players nominate for the National Draft and would use their ealry picks in the Nat Draft on them.

Ah ok then, apparently the Swans are looking at Bradshaw too, so they will nominate for the National Draft instead of the PSD...... is that correct??
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: WilliamPowell on October 18, 2009, 01:14:26 PM
I think Carlton & Brisbane are hoping both players nominate for the National Draft and would use their ealry picks in the Nat Draft on them.

Ah ok then, apparently the Swans are looking at Bradshaw too, so they will nominate for the National Draft instead of the PSD...... is that correct??

I don't know if they will but they can nominate for the Nat Draft if they want. But where they end up will still depend on what other clubs do. If Ball nominates Melb still holds all the aces because they have the first pick in ever round of the draft. But most teams historically take unproven talent in the Nat draft with early picks
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: Penelope on October 18, 2009, 01:51:33 PM
Can  players put a price on their head in the PSD, like previously listed players can in the National draft, in an attempt to price themselves out of calculations for some clubs, thus increasing the chances of ending up at a club of their choice?
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: WilliamPowell on October 18, 2009, 02:27:16 PM
Can  players put a price on their head in the PSD, like previously listed players can in the National draft, in an attempt to price themselves out of calculations for some clubs, thus increasing the chances of ending up at a club of their choice?

Yep
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: bushranger on October 18, 2009, 02:59:57 PM
Thanks for all these questions as I'm learning as much as the poster here.
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: Infamy on October 18, 2009, 03:44:14 PM
Players like Ball & Bradshaw may not be able to nominate for the National Draft though as from what I recall most contracts expire after the National Draft. If a player is delisted then they are free to nominate for both, but a player walking out on a club will miss the cutoff to nominate for the ND and then only have the PSD as their option.

I think that's how it works anyway.
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: Darth Tiger on October 18, 2009, 04:39:31 PM
Strong cases for free agency if they do not get to their preferred clubs via either draft method.

Would like to see free agency open for players after 8 seasons since debut.

That would reward elite players that the clubs want retained by the next contract getting them on the vets list at 10 years and allow stale list cloggers to be freed easily once gaining life membership (at most clubs criteria is 7 years or 150 games).
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: WilliamPowell on October 18, 2009, 04:41:15 PM
Players like Ball & Bradshaw may not be able to nominate for the National Draft though as from what I recall most contracts expire after the National Draft. If a player is delisted then they are free to nominate for both, but a player walking out on a club will miss the cutoff to nominate for the ND and then only have the PSD as their option.

I think that's how it works anyway.

Not sure about that Infamy

Player contracts ususally end October on or before the 31/10/09 - they tie in with a Clubs and the AFL year. Nov thru Oct

Nat draft is in Nov.
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: Jackstar is back on October 18, 2009, 05:00:29 PM
Players like Ball & Bradshaw may not be able to nominate for the National Draft though as from what I recall most contracts expire after the National Draft. If a player is delisted then they are free to nominate for both, but a player walking out on a club will miss the cutoff to nominate for the ND and then only have the PSD as their option.

I think that's how it works anyway.

Not sure about that Infamy

Player contracts ususally end October on or before the 31/10/09 - they tie in with a Clubs and the AFL year. Nov thru Oct

Nat draft is in Nov.

Thats correct WP, with most player payments being made on 31/10/09
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: Infamy on October 18, 2009, 05:30:07 PM
The deadline for out of contract listed AFL primary list players to nominate for the draft is November 10th, so only 10 days after the end of the AFL year. I have heard of this being an issue in the past. Maybe its changed.
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: Jackstar is back on October 18, 2009, 06:45:37 PM
I would pick Daniel Bradshaw without any hesitation.
Gun player.
You can never have enough good players at a footy club,
Is excellent overhead.
10 kicks and 10 marks against us in Round 8, kicked 3 goals.
Problem is , what pick you use to get in . pre season or national draft ?

Interesting that Troy Simmonds kicked 4 in the game
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: Judge Roughneck on October 18, 2009, 08:00:48 PM
I would be very happy to get Bradshaw @ PSD #2

Good Wodonga boy. Good footballer.

Would make the life of Richo, Vickery, Post, Reiwoldt more easy.

Bradshaw is in a different class to hacks like Knobel and Kinsley
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: Jackstar is back on October 18, 2009, 08:02:53 PM
I would be very happy to get Bradshaw @ PSD #2

Good Wodonga boy. Good footballer.

Would make the life of Richo, Vickery, Post, Reiwoldt more easy.

Correct! :thumbsup
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: the_boy_jake on October 18, 2009, 08:16:38 PM
Another thing - Moore, McGuane, Thursfield have all had problems being outbodied. We couldn't handle Fev at all for example. Richo was injured this season so they probably didn't have an experienced key forward at training. Having Bradshaw who is one of the strongest key forwards in the comp at training could be the making of one or more of them.
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: Jackstar is back on October 18, 2009, 08:47:42 PM
Another thing - Moore, McGuane, Thursfield have all had problems being outbodied. We couldn't handle Fev at all for example. Richo was injured this season so they probably didn't have an experienced key forward at training. Having Bradshaw who is one of the strongest key forwards in the comp at training could be the making of one or more of them.

All three defenders you have mentioned have had problems against Bradshaw.
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: WilliamPowell on October 18, 2009, 08:54:35 PM
If he is the best available player at pick 2 in the PSD - then you have to consider him

However, I have concerns about his age and more importantly his dodgy back - I know a bit about dodgy backs  ;D
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: tdy on October 18, 2009, 10:07:08 PM
According to the Age, both Sydney and Carlton are offering three years deals.
http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/rfnews/swans-1m-play-for-lion/2009/10/17/1255624770662.html
Carlton put him through a medical when he was proposed as a trade for Fevola. Would seem strange to offer a three year contract if they didn't think his body would hold out that long.



They must be mad, or they are thinking he will play 2 and they will just pay out the third year.
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: mat073 on October 19, 2009, 01:59:05 PM
Dodgy back or not Im sure there will be many teams falling over themselves to gain the services of Daniel Bradshaw.

2005.....19 games  42 goals
2006.....22 games  59 goals
2007.....missed through injury.
2008.....20 games  75 goals
2009.....21 games  58 goals

Bradshaw kicked 8 goals in this years final series.

I wouldn't lose any sleep if Richmond took a punt on a genuine power forward.



Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: Infamy on October 20, 2009, 12:25:32 AM
As much as I rate Bradshaw, I don't see the point in selecting him for a rebuilding side. He'll be gone by the time we are genuine contenders. He'd just be taking the spot of a kid which would hold them back from getting AFL experience.

Would rather take the best kid left over after training with us. Fair chance we'll have the first live pick after Melbourne commit to someone.
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: Smokey on October 20, 2009, 09:22:40 AM
As much as I rate Bradshaw, I don't see the point in selecting him for a rebuilding side. He'll be gone by the time we are genuine contenders. He'd just be taking the spot of a kid which would hold them back from getting AFL experience.

Would rather take the best kid left over after training with us. Fair chance we'll have the first live pick after Melbourne commit to someone.

Agree Infamy.
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: bushranger on October 20, 2009, 09:36:46 AM
I totally see what you have put down here and have to agree with you.
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: tiga on October 20, 2009, 02:30:45 PM
As much as I rate Bradshaw, I don't see the point in selecting him for a rebuilding side. He'll be gone by the time we are genuine contenders. He'd just be taking the spot of a kid which would hold them back from getting AFL experience.

Would rather take the best kid left over after training with us. Fair chance we'll have the first live pick after Melbourne commit to someone.

So the aim is for a team of apprentices and no tradesman?? For mine there is a flaw in that theory. Would it be any different if Bradshaw had been at the Tigers for a few years and we get rid of him before his time because he is taking a place away from a youngster? If we were guaranteed that 100% of the youngsters we recruit were going to be decent players then I would agree, but unfortunately that is not the reality. If a young player is good enough, then he will make the team! Bradshaw or no Bradshaw, the cream will always rise to the top. Many have proven it.
Bradshaw is a very smart and talented footballer and I can only see having him in the team as a bonus especially for our young forwards. He would also take a heap of pressure off the youngsters and allow their minds and bodies to mature over time.

There are 6 positions in our forward line, and if you can think of six forwards on our list that will be better than Bradshaw within the next two years then I will stand corrected.
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: Penelope on October 20, 2009, 09:41:21 PM
I'm with you on this tiga. Its all well and good to have a youth/rebuild policy, a bit of experience to help, teach and lead by example from a quality player is invaluable. To have some one of bradshaw's calibre, someone who knows how to play in tandem with other key forwards, could be a godsend for the young forwards still learning their trade.

My only concern is that he reportedly wants a three year contract and there must be doubts about his body holding out that long.

As much as I rate Bradshaw, I don't see the point in selecting him for a rebuilding side. He'll be gone by the time we are genuine contenders. He'd just be taking the spot of a kid which would hold them back from getting AFL experience.
If  Bradshaw was drafted and in a couple of years time our young forwards were ready to take us to the next level and he was ready to step aside, I'd say that he has served his purpose.

Bradshaw on a two year contract would be worth the risk.

Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: WA Tiger on October 20, 2009, 11:53:44 PM
As much as I rate Bradshaw, I don't see the point in selecting him for a rebuilding side. He'll be gone by the time we are genuine contenders. He'd just be taking the spot of a kid which would hold them back from getting AFL experience.

Would rather take the best kid left over after training with us. Fair chance we'll have the first live pick after Melbourne commit to someone.

So the aim is for a team of apprentices and no tradesman?? For mine there is a flaw in that theory. Would it be any different if Bradshaw had been at the Tigers for a few years and we get rid of him before his time because he is taking a place away from a youngster? If we were guaranteed that 100% of the youngsters we recruit were going to be decent players then I would agree, but unfortunately that is not the reality. If a young player is good enough, then he will make the team! Bradshaw or no Bradshaw, the cream will always rise to the top. Many have proven it.
Bradshaw is a very smart and talented footballer and I can only see having him in the team as a bonus especially for our young forwards. He would also take a heap of pressure off the youngsters and allow their minds and bodies to mature over time.

There are 6 positions in our forward line, and if you can think of six forwards on our list that will be better than Bradshaw within the next two years then I will stand corrected.

Finally someone else that see's it logically..... :clapping. The side needs some experience at some stage for the re-development to actually be transitional!!
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: Judge Roughneck on October 21, 2009, 11:43:22 AM
As much as I rate Bradshaw, I don't see the point in selecting him for a rebuilding side. He'll be gone by the time we are genuine contenders. He'd just be taking the spot of a kid which would hold them back from getting AFL experience.

Would rather take the best kid left over after training with us. Fair chance we'll have the first live pick after Melbourne commit to someone.

We have already had kids in the forward line spots.

Hughes, Schultz, Polak etc. All have not had anyone 'holding them back' and yet still failed.

Gourdis & Putt have not even done enough in the 2's & 3's to get one senior game.

Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: mightytiges on October 21, 2009, 10:06:17 PM
The next 2 years doesn't matter to us in terms of wins/losses. It's more about playing and developing the cubs we have and will now draft and for them to show who is up to it moving forward. That's why we will overlook Bradshaw. He'll only give us a couple of years service at best. I know we picked up Cuz but there's plenty of positions available in a midfield rotation compared to just the couple of key forward positions in a side.
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: Hellenic Tiger on October 21, 2009, 10:43:37 PM
Yep that's right MT. That is why Bradshaw will be overlooked. Bradshaw will be handy and is a dangerous player but will end up at a team topping up that has their premiership window open in the next few years.
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: WA Tiger on October 21, 2009, 11:38:19 PM
The next 2 years doesn't matter to us in terms of wins/losses. It's more about playing and developing the cubs we have and will now draft and for them to show who is up to it moving forward. That's why we will overlook Bradshaw. He'll only give us a couple of years service at best. I know we picked up Cuz but there's plenty of positions available in a midfield rotation compared to just the couple of key forward positions in a side.

What other experienced forwards (I do not rate Morton as an experienced forward and Richo will not stay down there) do we have to educate our forwards over the next two years. Do we leave the youth to educate themselves with barly any guidence from experience and then bag the crap out of them when they don't know where and when to lead.

Even Hawthawn realised that experience counts when you are re-building..... Stuart Dew, Brent Guera (spelling), Shane Crawford (when everyone on the planet wanted him traded) and so on!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: WA Tiger on October 21, 2009, 11:57:20 PM
Further to my last post, Hawthawn are bout to hand Trent Croad another contract at 29 years old with a pre-existing foot injury that kept him out all of last year, EXPERIENCE, need it!!!

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/hawks-hand-croad-new-deal/story-e6frf9ix-1225789585336
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: Hellenic Tiger on October 22, 2009, 12:07:33 AM
Rumours I have heard from Hawthorn are that Croad's contract is merely token and out of respect as insiders at Hawthorn believe that he played his last game for the club in the 2008 grand final and that his broken foot will never mend fully. They believe it is extremely doubtful that he will get back to play for Box Hill let alone Hawthorn.Injury is much like in the same mould as the kid from Geelong who missed out in 2007. His name escapes me right now. Was it Hunt or Egan?
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: WA Tiger on October 22, 2009, 12:12:47 AM
Rumours I have heard from Hawthorn are that Croad's contract is merely token and out of respect as insiders at Hawthorn believe that he played his last game for the club in the 2008 grand final and that his broken foot will never mend fully. They believe it is extremely doubtful that he will get back to play for Box Hill let alone Hawthorn.Injury is much like in the same mould as the kid from Geelong who missed out in 2007. His name escapes me right now. Was it Hunt or Egan?

Egan I think.
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: Infamy on October 22, 2009, 01:15:03 AM
The next 2 years doesn't matter to us in terms of wins/losses. It's more about playing and developing the cubs we have and will now draft and for them to show who is up to it moving forward. That's why we will overlook Bradshaw. He'll only give us a couple of years service at best. I know we picked up Cuz but there's plenty of positions available in a midfield rotation compared to just the couple of key forward positions in a side.

What other experienced forwards (I do not rate Morton as an experienced forward and Richo will not stay down there) do we have to educate our forwards over the next two years. Do we leave the youth to educate themselves with barly any guidence from experience and then bag the crap out of them when they don't know where and when to lead.

Even Hawthawn realised that experience counts when you are re-building..... Stuart Dew, Brent Guera (spelling), Shane Crawford (when everyone on the planet wanted him traded) and so on!!!!!!!!!
Big difference between topping up for a flag and rebuilding
Guerra was only 23 when picked up by the Hawks, Crawford was already on the list and Dew was picked up after the Hawks had already made the finals
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: Smokey on October 22, 2009, 07:00:38 AM

What other experienced forwards (I do not rate Morton as an experienced forward and Richo will not stay down there) do we have to educate our forwards over the next two years. Do we leave the youth to educate themselves with barly any guidence from experience and then bag the crap out of them when they don't know where and when to lead.

Even Hawthawn realised that experience counts when you are re-building..... Stuart Dew, Brent Guera (spelling), Shane Crawford (when everyone on the planet wanted him traded) and so on!!!!!!!!!

Only thing with that WAT is that you need 'good' experience to make it successful, not 'bad' experience.  And when we only have 1 player with 'good' experience we are probably just as better off building our own 'good' experience than trying to import it.  We already have a core of good young players with 50-100 games of match experience - teach them the core values of a winning culture and they will lead the way for the younger ones.  That's the challenge for the new coaching group - teach and develop a winning culture to a group who is still young enough to learn it.
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: Penelope on October 22, 2009, 09:33:01 AM


What other experienced forwards (I do not rate Morton as an experienced forward and Richo will not stay down there) do we have to educate our forwards over the next two years. Do we leave the youth to educate themselves with barly any guidence from experience and then bag the crap out of them when they don't know where and when to lead.

Even Hawthawn realised that experience counts when you are re-building..... Stuart Dew, Brent Guera (spelling), Shane Crawford (when everyone on the planet wanted him traded) and so on!!!!!!!!!

Only thing with that WAT is that you need 'good' experience to make it successful, not 'bad' experience.  And when we only have 1 player with 'good' experience we are probably just as better off building our own 'good' experience than trying to import it.  We already have a core of good young players with 50-100 games of match experience - teach them the core values of a winning culture and they will lead the way for the younger ones.  That's the challenge for the new coaching group - teach and develop a winning culture to a group who is still young enough to learn it.

Bradshaw would bring 'good' experience. A triple premiership player from a side with a winning culture. The challenge of teaching and developing a winning culture would be much easier with someone  like Bradshaw on the ground. Sure we now have Lade and Leppitch along side Hardwick, but you can only influence so much on the training track and from the grandstand come match day. You also need those qualities on the field. As it stands we really only have Cousins whop ticks those boxes as a player. Add one more and we effectively double the number of players with 'good experience'

The next 2 years doesn't matter to us in terms of wins/losses. It's more about playing and developing the cubs we have and will now draft and for them to show who is up to it moving forward. That's why we will overlook Bradshaw. He'll only give us a couple of years service at best. I know we picked up Cuz but there's plenty of positions available in a midfield rotation compared to just the couple of key forward positions in a side.

Win/Loss ratio does matter, particularly if you are trying to develop a winning culture, as is being competitive in the games you loose. A team loaded with young kids will cop some beltings, like lambs to the slaughter. While it could be argued that a flogging can be character building, regular beltings are simply demoralising and hold back the development of young players.

There is no-one in the current list, except perhaps cousins, who has shown they can stand up and inspire when either the game needs to be won, or when the the game is looking like getting out of reach in an ugly manner. Bradshaw does have the strength of character to do this.

Some would argue that Bradshaw would be taking Posts spot on the field. Post is only into his second year and to expect him to hold down a key position at the highest level is a big ask. To serve some apprenticeship time at Coburg would do him no harm and if he was performing there it would put pressure on Jack. This would install into these kids
1: That you have to perform over a period of time to earn your place in the seniors.
2; That when you get that senior spot, you have to perform to keep it.

It means that nothing can be taken for granted.
Successful sides, in any sport are those that have players that realise this.

The biggest problem is that Bradshaw wants a three year contract, and I think that into the third year, if Jack and Post develop as we would hope, then some of these arguments against him do become valid. There is also question marks over his fitness, so that makes him a bit of a risk, but sometimes hove have to take a chance to reap the rewards. As opposed to some of the other players under fitness/injury clouds being bandied about, Bradshaw would still have something to offer off the field if he did break down.

The other thing is that it would be a mistake not draft a young KPF in the draft, as you cannot make the assumption that these two will be the core of Richmond's forward line for the next ten years. Those sort of assumptions can really come back to haunt you.

Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: Smokey on October 22, 2009, 10:21:20 AM

Only thing with that WAT is that you need 'good' experience to make it successful, not 'bad' experience.  And when we only have 1 player with 'good' experience we are probably just as better off building our own 'good' experience than trying to import it.  We already have a core of good young players with 50-100 games of match experience - teach them the core values of a winning culture and they will lead the way for the younger ones.  That's the challenge for the new coaching group - teach and develop a winning culture to a group who is still young enough to learn it.

Bradshaw would bring 'good' experience. A triple premiership player from a side with a winning culture. The challenge of teaching and developing a winning culture would be much easier with someone  like Bradshaw on the ground. Sure we now have Lade and Leppitch along side Hardwick, but you can only influence so much on the training track and from the grandstand come match day. You also need those qualities on the field. As it stands we really only have Cousins whop ticks those boxes as a player. Add one more and we effectively double the number of players with 'good experience'


Yes Al, but my point is that you need 5-6 players of 'good' experience to make a difference.  Having Bradshaw would only give us 2 so it would only help marginally and you could easily mount a case for the negatives balancing or outweighing the positives.  Your reply to MT mentions this as Post, Vickery, Reiwoldt etc develop.  I'm not of the "must learn the craft at Coburg" clan - I believe (as you mention) in the "play if you earn it" mantra and I'm hoping with all the cross heart, touch wood, finger's crossed superstitions I can dig up that this is one of the big changes that the new coaching group brings to the club.  That will be a hugely important and effective culture shift right there.

And to follow that on, I believe that the win/loss ratio is far less important than the attitude displayed in the game regardless of the outcome.  If we get our attitude right then the wins will come and with this group they will come far quicker than many pundits are prepared to accept or acknowledge at present.  In the wider football world (and even from some parts within) we have been written off as hopeless and in need of a complete cleanout/rebuild.  I believe that to be bollocks - we have a lot of young talent already in place that has been 'fortunate' to gain more match day experience than many others.  This will hold them in good stead and provide a solid base to build further on 'IF' the new coaching group are competent and capable.  (Back to the cross heart, touch wood, finger's crossed bit here)!!

Only time will tell but as far as Bradshaw goes I don't believe he will have sufficient impact on our team that justifies the cost of getting and keeping him.
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: Penelope on October 22, 2009, 09:52:01 PM
Smokey, i agree that you do need a number of "good" experienced players, I'm just of the opinion that 2 is better than 1, 3 is better than 2 etc rather than if we cant get the number required we might as well have bugger all.

I hope my post didn't give the impression that I am of the "must learn the craft at Coburg" clan. I just said it wouldnt do any harm if they had to spend time there because of competition for positions. I agree you shouldnt keep someone there just because you think along those lines. The longer a kid has to prove himself in the seconds (VFL) because those in the senior side are performing, the better off the team is, but no, dont keep them down there for the sake of it.

Quote
Only time will tell but as far as Bradshaw goes I don't believe he will have sufficient impact on our team that justifies the cost of getting and keeping him.

That really is the bottom line isn't it? We have different opinions on his potential value to the club and I suppose therefore what you would be willing to pay for his services. Considering both Carlton and Sydney seem willing to offer him a three year contract of around $1mil, I think he will price himself out of Richmond's calculations. To me its not so much the yearly wage, but the length of the contract. I believe that two years would suit the clubs needs rather three, but I feel that this debate will remain hypothetical.

cheers
Al

Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: Smokey on October 22, 2009, 10:12:38 PM
......... but I feel that this debate will remain hypothetical.

cheers
Al



For sure Al.  And the 2 clubs you mention are the 2 clubs that would/will benefit most by getting Bradshaw - he is a perfect fit for either but of the 2 I hope he goes to the Swans because I just can't stand the cheats!!   :thumbsup
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: mightytiges on October 23, 2009, 10:48:57 PM
That really is the bottom line isn't it? We have different opinions on his potential value to the club and I suppose therefore what you would be willing to pay for his services. Considering both Carlton and Sydney seem willing to offer him a three year contract of around $1mil, I think he will price himself out of Richmond's calculations. To me its not so much the yearly wage, but the length of the contract. I believe that two years would suit the clubs needs rather three, but I feel that this debate will remain hypothetical.

cheers
Al

Money shouldn't/wouldn't be an issue given how such a young list we'll have. You would hope we are paying the minimum 92.5% in TPP next year. You've right al, the RFC will say no more likely due to the length of contract and picking up a player who only has a short-term future when we are rebuilding.

Just on Bradshaw possibly ending up at Carlton - if he does then the Lions will have paid a hefty price to get Fev. Basically will have given up Bradshaw (current key forward), Henderson (future key forward) plus a first round pick and Carlton come out the winners in the deal. Having said that I could see Bradshaw ending up at the Swans. More beneficial to the AFL if Bradshaw heads to harbourside as a "name" FF who can be promoted.
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: one-eyed on October 24, 2009, 06:31:45 PM
Ch 7 News just said Bradshaw has chosen to go to the Swans via the PSD on a 3-year deal.
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: mightytiges on October 24, 2009, 06:34:18 PM
Ch 7 News just said Bradshaw has chosen to go to the Swans via the PSD on a 3-year deal.
LOL. Carlton lose out  :thumbsup
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: Penelope on October 24, 2009, 06:51:29 PM
Sydney, the lesser of two evils, just!! :chuck
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: Mr Magic on October 24, 2009, 08:05:40 PM
Ch 7 News just said Bradshaw has chosen to go to the Swans via the PSD on a 3-year deal.
LOL. Carlton lose out  :thumbsup

Thank goodness for that.
Suffer in your jocks Carlscum, who's gonna kick your goals now???!!!
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: bushranger on October 24, 2009, 08:08:57 PM
 :lol  Steven's  :lol
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: Hellenic Tiger on October 25, 2009, 02:06:20 PM
Could not happen to a more deserving footy club.

2009 They know we're coming.

2010 We have severe erection problems. :lol
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: Gigantor on October 25, 2009, 02:25:40 PM
dont know about you guys ,but i couldnt care who wins the premiership as long as it aint Carlton.
the hatred that club ,and all its hangers on ,bring out is remarkable.
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: bushranger on October 25, 2009, 03:17:34 PM
Add the Skunks to that list to and I'll be right behind you on that one.
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: wayne on June 17, 2011, 09:19:45 AM
He's announcing his retirement today according to SEN.

Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: Coach on June 17, 2011, 10:21:08 AM
Been a good player for a long time.
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: gerkin greg on June 17, 2011, 10:22:09 AM
Was a good player for a long time.

Should have given it away last year.
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: Mr Magic on June 17, 2011, 10:23:01 AM
Was a gun. Great utility player.
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: Coach on June 17, 2011, 10:24:54 AM
Was a good player for a long time.

Should have given it away last year.

Not his fault his knee went, guy. Should have finished his career with a bag of 7 against the Lions
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: mat073 on June 17, 2011, 11:37:34 AM
Funny read this thread.

Imagine if he had only played 9 games for the Tigers.
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: gerkin greg on June 17, 2011, 12:22:52 PM
Cost the Swans about $100k a game  :lol
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: Judge Roughneck on June 18, 2011, 02:52:04 AM
Funny read this thread.

Imagine if he had only played 9 games for the Tigers.

could have played every game for the tigers. Who knows how things could have gone

Bradshaw >. Miller. Kinsley. Trent knobel.
Title: Re: Bradshaw
Post by: Penelope on June 18, 2011, 09:00:57 AM
In terms of playing ability there is no denying that bents.

I was one that would have been happy to have seen bradshaw picked up to play a mentor role for two years but in the end he wanted three years which i felt was was too long.

In hindsight it would have been a mistake as his body just did not hold up and from all accounts miller is a good communicator and role model, which are important attributes for a short term role as such.( we have no real insight into bradshaw in this aspect0

He has also come at a bargain basement price.