Author Topic: Bradshaw  (Read 11147 times)

Offline Penelope

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Re: Bradshaw
« Reply #60 on: October 22, 2009, 09:33:01 AM »


What other experienced forwards (I do not rate Morton as an experienced forward and Richo will not stay down there) do we have to educate our forwards over the next two years. Do we leave the youth to educate themselves with barly any guidence from experience and then bag the crap out of them when they don't know where and when to lead.

Even Hawthawn realised that experience counts when you are re-building..... Stuart Dew, Brent Guera (spelling), Shane Crawford (when everyone on the planet wanted him traded) and so on!!!!!!!!!

Only thing with that WAT is that you need 'good' experience to make it successful, not 'bad' experience.  And when we only have 1 player with 'good' experience we are probably just as better off building our own 'good' experience than trying to import it.  We already have a core of good young players with 50-100 games of match experience - teach them the core values of a winning culture and they will lead the way for the younger ones.  That's the challenge for the new coaching group - teach and develop a winning culture to a group who is still young enough to learn it.

Bradshaw would bring 'good' experience. A triple premiership player from a side with a winning culture. The challenge of teaching and developing a winning culture would be much easier with someone  like Bradshaw on the ground. Sure we now have Lade and Leppitch along side Hardwick, but you can only influence so much on the training track and from the grandstand come match day. You also need those qualities on the field. As it stands we really only have Cousins whop ticks those boxes as a player. Add one more and we effectively double the number of players with 'good experience'

The next 2 years doesn't matter to us in terms of wins/losses. It's more about playing and developing the cubs we have and will now draft and for them to show who is up to it moving forward. That's why we will overlook Bradshaw. He'll only give us a couple of years service at best. I know we picked up Cuz but there's plenty of positions available in a midfield rotation compared to just the couple of key forward positions in a side.

Win/Loss ratio does matter, particularly if you are trying to develop a winning culture, as is being competitive in the games you loose. A team loaded with young kids will cop some beltings, like lambs to the slaughter. While it could be argued that a flogging can be character building, regular beltings are simply demoralising and hold back the development of young players.

There is no-one in the current list, except perhaps cousins, who has shown they can stand up and inspire when either the game needs to be won, or when the the game is looking like getting out of reach in an ugly manner. Bradshaw does have the strength of character to do this.

Some would argue that Bradshaw would be taking Posts spot on the field. Post is only into his second year and to expect him to hold down a key position at the highest level is a big ask. To serve some apprenticeship time at Coburg would do him no harm and if he was performing there it would put pressure on Jack. This would install into these kids
1: That you have to perform over a period of time to earn your place in the seniors.
2; That when you get that senior spot, you have to perform to keep it.

It means that nothing can be taken for granted.
Successful sides, in any sport are those that have players that realise this.

The biggest problem is that Bradshaw wants a three year contract, and I think that into the third year, if Jack and Post develop as we would hope, then some of these arguments against him do become valid. There is also question marks over his fitness, so that makes him a bit of a risk, but sometimes hove have to take a chance to reap the rewards. As opposed to some of the other players under fitness/injury clouds being bandied about, Bradshaw would still have something to offer off the field if he did break down.

The other thing is that it would be a mistake not draft a young KPF in the draft, as you cannot make the assumption that these two will be the core of Richmond's forward line for the next ten years. Those sort of assumptions can really come back to haunt you.

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Offline Smokey

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Re: Bradshaw
« Reply #61 on: October 22, 2009, 10:21:20 AM »

Only thing with that WAT is that you need 'good' experience to make it successful, not 'bad' experience.  And when we only have 1 player with 'good' experience we are probably just as better off building our own 'good' experience than trying to import it.  We already have a core of good young players with 50-100 games of match experience - teach them the core values of a winning culture and they will lead the way for the younger ones.  That's the challenge for the new coaching group - teach and develop a winning culture to a group who is still young enough to learn it.

Bradshaw would bring 'good' experience. A triple premiership player from a side with a winning culture. The challenge of teaching and developing a winning culture would be much easier with someone  like Bradshaw on the ground. Sure we now have Lade and Leppitch along side Hardwick, but you can only influence so much on the training track and from the grandstand come match day. You also need those qualities on the field. As it stands we really only have Cousins whop ticks those boxes as a player. Add one more and we effectively double the number of players with 'good experience'


Yes Al, but my point is that you need 5-6 players of 'good' experience to make a difference.  Having Bradshaw would only give us 2 so it would only help marginally and you could easily mount a case for the negatives balancing or outweighing the positives.  Your reply to MT mentions this as Post, Vickery, Reiwoldt etc develop.  I'm not of the "must learn the craft at Coburg" clan - I believe (as you mention) in the "play if you earn it" mantra and I'm hoping with all the cross heart, touch wood, finger's crossed superstitions I can dig up that this is one of the big changes that the new coaching group brings to the club.  That will be a hugely important and effective culture shift right there.

And to follow that on, I believe that the win/loss ratio is far less important than the attitude displayed in the game regardless of the outcome.  If we get our attitude right then the wins will come and with this group they will come far quicker than many pundits are prepared to accept or acknowledge at present.  In the wider football world (and even from some parts within) we have been written off as hopeless and in need of a complete cleanout/rebuild.  I believe that to be bollocks - we have a lot of young talent already in place that has been 'fortunate' to gain more match day experience than many others.  This will hold them in good stead and provide a solid base to build further on 'IF' the new coaching group are competent and capable.  (Back to the cross heart, touch wood, finger's crossed bit here)!!

Only time will tell but as far as Bradshaw goes I don't believe he will have sufficient impact on our team that justifies the cost of getting and keeping him.

Offline Penelope

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Re: Bradshaw
« Reply #62 on: October 22, 2009, 09:52:01 PM »
Smokey, i agree that you do need a number of "good" experienced players, I'm just of the opinion that 2 is better than 1, 3 is better than 2 etc rather than if we cant get the number required we might as well have bugger all.

I hope my post didn't give the impression that I am of the "must learn the craft at Coburg" clan. I just said it wouldnt do any harm if they had to spend time there because of competition for positions. I agree you shouldnt keep someone there just because you think along those lines. The longer a kid has to prove himself in the seconds (VFL) because those in the senior side are performing, the better off the team is, but no, dont keep them down there for the sake of it.

Quote
Only time will tell but as far as Bradshaw goes I don't believe he will have sufficient impact on our team that justifies the cost of getting and keeping him.

That really is the bottom line isn't it? We have different opinions on his potential value to the club and I suppose therefore what you would be willing to pay for his services. Considering both Carlton and Sydney seem willing to offer him a three year contract of around $1mil, I think he will price himself out of Richmond's calculations. To me its not so much the yearly wage, but the length of the contract. I believe that two years would suit the clubs needs rather three, but I feel that this debate will remain hypothetical.

cheers
Al

“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways my ways,” says the Lord.
 
“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are my ways higher than your ways,
And my thoughts than your thoughts."

Yahweh? or the great Clawski?

yaw rehto eht dellorcs ti fi daer ot reisae eb dluow tI

Offline Smokey

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Re: Bradshaw
« Reply #63 on: October 22, 2009, 10:12:38 PM »
......... but I feel that this debate will remain hypothetical.

cheers
Al



For sure Al.  And the 2 clubs you mention are the 2 clubs that would/will benefit most by getting Bradshaw - he is a perfect fit for either but of the 2 I hope he goes to the Swans because I just can't stand the cheats!!   :thumbsup

Offline mightytiges

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Re: Bradshaw
« Reply #64 on: October 23, 2009, 10:48:57 PM »
That really is the bottom line isn't it? We have different opinions on his potential value to the club and I suppose therefore what you would be willing to pay for his services. Considering both Carlton and Sydney seem willing to offer him a three year contract of around $1mil, I think he will price himself out of Richmond's calculations. To me its not so much the yearly wage, but the length of the contract. I believe that two years would suit the clubs needs rather three, but I feel that this debate will remain hypothetical.

cheers
Al

Money shouldn't/wouldn't be an issue given how such a young list we'll have. You would hope we are paying the minimum 92.5% in TPP next year. You've right al, the RFC will say no more likely due to the length of contract and picking up a player who only has a short-term future when we are rebuilding.

Just on Bradshaw possibly ending up at Carlton - if he does then the Lions will have paid a hefty price to get Fev. Basically will have given up Bradshaw (current key forward), Henderson (future key forward) plus a first round pick and Carlton come out the winners in the deal. Having said that I could see Bradshaw ending up at the Swans. More beneficial to the AFL if Bradshaw heads to harbourside as a "name" FF who can be promoted.
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Offline one-eyed

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Re: Bradshaw
« Reply #65 on: October 24, 2009, 06:31:45 PM »
Ch 7 News just said Bradshaw has chosen to go to the Swans via the PSD on a 3-year deal.

Offline mightytiges

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Re: Bradshaw
« Reply #66 on: October 24, 2009, 06:34:18 PM »
Ch 7 News just said Bradshaw has chosen to go to the Swans via the PSD on a 3-year deal.
LOL. Carlton lose out  :thumbsup
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Offline Penelope

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Re: Bradshaw
« Reply #67 on: October 24, 2009, 06:51:29 PM »
Sydney, the lesser of two evils, just!! :chuck
“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways my ways,” says the Lord.
 
“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are my ways higher than your ways,
And my thoughts than your thoughts."

Yahweh? or the great Clawski?

yaw rehto eht dellorcs ti fi daer ot reisae eb dluow tI

Offline Mr Magic

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Re: Bradshaw
« Reply #68 on: October 24, 2009, 08:05:40 PM »
Ch 7 News just said Bradshaw has chosen to go to the Swans via the PSD on a 3-year deal.
LOL. Carlton lose out  :thumbsup

Thank goodness for that.
Suffer in your jocks Carlscum, who's gonna kick your goals now???!!!

bushranger

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Re: Bradshaw
« Reply #69 on: October 24, 2009, 08:08:57 PM »
 :lol  Steven's  :lol

Hellenic Tiger

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Re: Bradshaw
« Reply #70 on: October 25, 2009, 02:06:20 PM »
Could not happen to a more deserving footy club.

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2010 We have severe erection problems. :lol

Gigantor

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Re: Bradshaw
« Reply #71 on: October 25, 2009, 02:25:40 PM »
dont know about you guys ,but i couldnt care who wins the premiership as long as it aint Carlton.
the hatred that club ,and all its hangers on ,bring out is remarkable.

bushranger

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Re: Bradshaw
« Reply #72 on: October 25, 2009, 03:17:34 PM »
Add the Skunks to that list to and I'll be right behind you on that one.

Offline wayne

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Re: Bradshaw
« Reply #73 on: June 17, 2011, 09:19:45 AM »
He's announcing his retirement today according to SEN.

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Offline Coach

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Re: Bradshaw
« Reply #74 on: June 17, 2011, 10:21:08 AM »
Been a good player for a long time.