One-Eyed Richmond Forum

Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: one-eyed on February 03, 2010, 04:07:56 PM

Title: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: one-eyed on February 03, 2010, 04:07:56 PM
Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community
richmondfc.com.au
Wed 03 February, 2010


The Richmond Football Club yesterday announced an exciting partnership with national entertainment company Tabcorp.

Tabcorp has become a partner of Club’s community arm, the Tigers in the Community Foundation.

The sponsorship will support the growth of the Tigers in the Community Foundation and strengthen its ability to realise its community development vision.

As part of the partnership, Tabcorp’s Melbourne-based employees will be given the opportunity to participate and volunteer in a range of the foundation’s programs, including assisting with charity events with St Mary’s House of Welcome and Very Special Kids, and participating in a book drive program.

“We are appreciative with the relationship with have with Tabcorp and we thank them for the support of our community endeavours,” Richmond CEO Brendon Gale said.

Tabcorp’s Executive General Manager, Corporate and Legal, Kerry Willcock, said the company was looking forward to making a contribution that makes a difference.

“Tabcorp’s community connection is about taking steps to deliver positive and lasting change for those in need. Through it we aim to better connect our company with the community, as well as increase employee engagement,” she said.

Since its inception in 2005, the Tigers in the Community Foundation has developed into a major provider of community programs in inner Melbourne and a supporter of many charity and community organisations.

The foundation undertakes a range of services, such as literacy support programs for children in public housing estates and partnership activities with St Mary’s House of Welcome and Very Special Kids.

Tabcorp’s corporate bookmaking business, Luxbet.com, is a co-major sponsor of the Richmond Football Club.

http://www.richmondfc.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/6301/newsid/89158/default.aspx
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: WilliamPowell on February 03, 2010, 06:32:24 PM
This is great news on so many fronts

You see our major partner LuXbet.com is a part of the Tabcorp Group...

Just strengthens these ties IMHO  :clapping
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: jackstar is back again on February 03, 2010, 06:41:58 PM
LOL Tabcorp giving something back to the community
.Gambling has ruined many peoples lives in our community
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: FNM on February 03, 2010, 06:57:56 PM
LOL Tabcorp giving something back to the community
.Gambling has ruined many peoples lives in our community
You're not wrong.
I'm hooked on stuff poker, but at least it's not costing me nothing
I like a flutter and don't have much control (over anything actually - compulsive addictive behaviour lol), so if i ever go near a casino, I leave all credit cards at home and just take money for fun. Otherwise it would be a big problem.
At least I can recognise my problem and not let it affect me financially.  Others, unfortunately, either think they can win back what they've lost by just having that one little extra bet to try and get back some of their losses. And it just spirals out of control.

Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: Gigantor on February 03, 2010, 07:00:11 PM
jack after your post i dont know whether to jump for joy or cry.....re-the tabcorp announcement
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: jackstar is back again on February 03, 2010, 07:18:19 PM
jack after your post i dont know whether to jump for joy or cry.....re-the tabcorp announcement

Like it or not its the truth.
Cigeratte Advertising and sponsorships are banned in sports.
Give it 5 years and the likes of Betfair, Tabcorp, Luxbet, IAS etc etc. will be given the stuff as well.
Gambling is not welcomed in sport!
How on earth does betfair still  sponsors is beyond belief
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: Smokey on February 03, 2010, 07:30:13 PM

Gambling is not welcomed in sport!


I'm not sure that the racing industry will agree with you Jack.
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: yellowandback on February 03, 2010, 07:36:34 PM
jack after your post i dont know whether to jump for joy or cry.....re-the tabcorp announcement

I'm sure if it was fosters it would be a blight on Richmond because they create alcos or maccas cause of fatties or ford cause of the carbon footprint or the Malaysian govt because of the friggin bumi putra.

It's our effen fault Jack!
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: jackstar is back again on February 03, 2010, 07:52:36 PM
well ciggarette ads are banned.
Gambling should be banned as well
Tabcorp/ Betfair etc are a disgrace !
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: Ox on February 03, 2010, 08:01:02 PM
I agree but for now,
"Go on,Take the money and run......"
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: yellowandback on February 03, 2010, 08:07:01 PM
well ciggarette ads are banned.
Gambling should be banned as well
Tabcorp/ Betfair etc are a disgrace !

"everything gives you cancer"
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: jackstar is back again on February 03, 2010, 09:44:16 PM
Gambling is a huge problem in our society.
Now you have places like Betfair etc. :banghead
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: yellowandback on February 03, 2010, 09:55:18 PM
Gambling is a huge problem in our society.
Now you have places like Betfair etc. :banghead


unecessary negativity is a bigger problem as it drives people to drink, take drugs or gamble to escape the bleak outlook people force upon them. Now excuse me while I go to the casino, have a shot of Bacardi 151, smoke a cigar, do a line and hit the tables all at once. ;D
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: WilliamPowell on February 03, 2010, 10:00:55 PM
well ciggarette ads are banned.
Gambling should be banned as well
Tabcorp/ Betfair etc are a disgrace !

Fair enough as everyone has a view

But 3 points

1/ No-one forces people to gamble, smoke or drink for that matter. So individuals have to take some responsibility for their OWN actions. Do you honestly think banning the advertising is going to stop the problem? It hasn't stopped all the smoking in the world

2/ FWIW - as part of the clubs sponsorship with Luxbet there is alot of work and promotion that goes into education into relation to "problem gambling". So there is more to the deal than just taking the $$$$

3/ Bottom line is in this day and age where sponsorship $$$ are so hard to source sporting clubs have to take on these type of deals to survive. So unless you can find someone else to cough up the $$$ (I would estimate it is around $1 mil a year) then we have little choice
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: tigersalive on February 03, 2010, 10:14:09 PM
jack after your post i dont know whether to jump for joy or cry.....re-the tabcorp announcement

Like it or not its the truth.
Cigeratte Advertising and sponsorships are banned in sports.
Give it 5 years and the likes of Betfair, Tabcorp, Luxbet, IAS etc etc. will be given the stuff as well.
Gambling is not welcomed in sport!
How on earth does betfair still  sponsors is beyond belief

Considering the law was recently passed that made it LEGAL for betting agencies to sponsor teams I'd suggest it is welcomed to sport more than ever.

Sure it's about surface "corporate responsibility" promotion but all they are doing is playing by the rules and doing extra things voluntarily for their perception that isn't damaging so why blame them?

We aren't a nanny state, well not yet  ::), if people can't control their addictions it's their own responsibility. 


Gambling is a huge problem in our society.
Now you have places like Betfair etc. :banghead

BetFair.  Greatest thing to happen to betting in quite a while.  :thumbsup
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: Ox on February 03, 2010, 10:16:57 PM
Gambling is a huge problem in our society.
Now you have places like Betfair etc. :banghead


unecessary negativity is a bigger problem as it drives people to drink, take drugs or gamble to escape the bleak outlook people force upon them. Now excuse me while I go to the casino, have a shot of Bacardi 151, smoke a cigar, do a line and hit the tables all at once. ;D

i like this
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: jackstar is back again on February 03, 2010, 10:46:46 PM
jack after your post i dont know whether to jump for joy or cry.....re-the tabcorp announcement

Like it or not its the truth.
Cigeratte Advertising and sponsorships are banned in sports.
Give it 5 years and the likes of Betfair, Tabcorp, Luxbet, IAS etc etc. will be given the stuff as well.
Gambling is not welcomed in sport!
How on earth does betfair still  sponsors is beyond belief

Considering the law was recently passed that made it LEGAL for betting agencies to sponsor teams I'd suggest it is welcomed to sport more than ever.

Sure it's about surface "corporate responsibility" promotion but all they are doing is playing by the rules and doing extra things voluntarily for their perception that isn't damaging so why blame them?

We aren't a nanny state, well not yet  ::), if people can't control their addictions it's their own responsibility. 


Gambling is a huge problem in our society.
Now you have places like Betfair etc. :banghead

BetFair.  Greatest thing to happen to betting in quite a while.  :thumbsup

Can tell you this, beinng an ex harness racing driver of 15 years, betfair is the worst thing ever to happen
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: jackstar is back again on February 03, 2010, 10:51:37 PM
well ciggarette ads are banned.
Gambling should be banned as well
Tabcorp/ Betfair etc are a disgrace !

Fair enough as everyone has a view

But 3 points

1/ No-one forces people to gamble, smoke or drink for that matter. So individuals have to take some responsibility for their OWN actions. Do you honestly think banning the advertising is going to stop the problem? It hasn't stopped all the smoking in the world

2/ FWIW - as part of the clubs sponsorship with Luxbet there is alot of work and promotion that goes into education into relation to "problem gambling". So there is more to the deal than just taking the $$$$

3/ Bottom line is in this day and age where sponsorship $$$ are so hard to source sporting clubs have to take on these type of deals to survive. So unless you can find someone else to cough up the $$$ (I would estimate it is around $1 mil a year) then we have little choice

Thats funny.
Luxbet, Tabcorp, Betfair  cause the problems.   Oh yeah, lets have a ""BIG 6"" LOL :banghead :banghead :banghead.
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: tigersalive on February 03, 2010, 10:55:06 PM
jack after your post i dont know whether to jump for joy or cry.....re-the tabcorp announcement

Like it or not its the truth.
Cigeratte Advertising and sponsorships are banned in sports.
Give it 5 years and the likes of Betfair, Tabcorp, Luxbet, IAS etc etc. will be given the stuff as well.
Gambling is not welcomed in sport!
How on earth does betfair still  sponsors is beyond belief

Considering the law was recently passed that made it LEGAL for betting agencies to sponsor teams I'd suggest it is welcomed to sport more than ever.

Sure it's about surface "corporate responsibility" promotion but all they are doing is playing by the rules and doing extra things voluntarily for their perception that isn't damaging so why blame them?

We aren't a nanny state, well not yet  ::), if people can't control their addictions it's their own responsibility. 


Gambling is a huge problem in our society.
Now you have places like Betfair etc. :banghead

BetFair.  Greatest thing to happen to betting in quite a while.  :thumbsup

Can tell you this, beinng an ex harness racing driver of 15 years, betfair is the worst thing ever to happen

Not for gamblers though, and not for gamblers who couldn't care less about harness racing, or dishlickers for that matter and see them as stale viewing.

Corporate bookmakers are just a fact of life now so those faced with struggles need to update and re-invent.
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: jackstar is back again on February 03, 2010, 11:04:02 PM
Corporate Bookmakers arent a fact of life and are crippling the Racing Industry. Problem is they put nothing back into Horse Racing etc.
Tabcorp at least pay a dividenend to the Racing Clubs to be distributed for prizemoney and upkeep.
Betfair is a disgrace
Go and log on and watch was happens, funny how favorites get laid and get beat, very strange, Someone not trying to win perhaps, nah that never happens ::)
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: Penelope on February 03, 2010, 11:07:58 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ogj5ztTE0zw

Thats a big problem up here Jack with the Bookies trying to reduce what they put back into the industry
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: WA Tiger on February 03, 2010, 11:11:08 PM
Good on ya Tiges, well done another great relationship to further advance our club.

There are millions of things out there that ruin peoples lives......... if YOU CHOOSE to do them!!!!!
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: jackstar is back again on February 03, 2010, 11:16:34 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ogj5ztTE0zw

Thats a big problem up here Jack with the Bookies trying to reduce what they put back into the industry

Thats because the Corporate "'Parasites "" put nothing back , so they others have to reduced there contribution to remain competitve and in business..
See where things are at in 5 years time.
The Corporates have  stuffed everything up!
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: Infamy on February 03, 2010, 11:17:54 PM
LOL Tabcorp giving something back to the community
.Gambling has ruined many peoples lives in our community

Taxation of the stupid

well ciggarette ads are banned.
Gambling should be banned as well
Tabcorp/ Betfair etc are a disgrace !
What's the point? Banning cigarette advertising doesn't make people stop smoking. Problem gamblers will always gamble, be it legally or otherwise. Banning/prohibition solves nothing, better to legalise everything, slap a "vice tax" on it and use the generated income to assist those who are abusing it.
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: Penelope on February 03, 2010, 11:54:19 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ogj5ztTE0zw

Thats a big problem up here Jack with the Bookies trying to reduce what they put back into the industry

Thats because the Corporate "'Parasites "" put nothing back , so they others have to reduced there contribution to remain competitve and in business..
See where things are at in 5 years time.
The Corporates have  stuffed everything up!

That's who I was referring to. I couldnt even say for sure if there are any Rails Bookies  still up here. Havnt been to the races for quite a while.
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: WilliamPowell on February 04, 2010, 07:28:34 AM

Thats funny.
Luxbet, Tabcorp, Betfair  cause the problems.   Oh yeah, lets have a ""BIG 6"" LOL :banghead :banghead :banghead.


That's where you argument fails IMHO Jack ..this view that these betting agencies cause the gambling problems.

They are NOT the cause. Are they part of the problem? Perhaps but to say they CAUSE gambling addiction is laughable. People chose to gamble. These agencies don't stand there forcing people to gamble

But gee isn't easy to point the finger of blame at someone else

In other words how easy it is to someone else for an individual's choice that ends up being a monumental stuff up.

Taking some responsibility for ones actions.... what a novel idea





Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: jackstar is back again on February 04, 2010, 08:06:52 AM
well explain Betfair WP!
The source of real evil
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: tigersalive on February 04, 2010, 08:12:09 AM
Good on ya Tiges, well done another great relationship to further advance our club.

There are millions of things out there that ruin peoples lives......... if YOU CHOOSE to do them!!!!!

 :clapping

Corporate Bookmakers arent a fact of life and are crippling the Racing Industry. Problem is they put nothing back into Horse Racing etc.
Tabcorp at least pay a dividenend to the Racing Clubs to be distributed for prizemoney and upkeep.
Betfair is a disgrace
Go and log on and watch was happens, funny how favorites get laid and get beat, very strange, Someone not trying to win perhaps, nah that never happens ::)


Or are they crippling themselves?  Reletively no one cares about Harness racing or Greyhounds anymore and the Ponies only get massive interest through the spring carnival and are just hit and miss there-after by seasoned gamblers.  I don't think they deserve all that much as they don't command much in my eyes while their industry keeps losing public interest.

Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: Penelope on February 04, 2010, 10:09:45 AM
People with a gambling addiction "choose" to do so no more than an alcoholic, a person suffering a compulsive disorder or even someone suffering depression. They all have their roots in the brain chemistry not being right and are psychological disorders.
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: WA Tiger on February 04, 2010, 11:33:58 AM
People with a gambling addiction "choose" to do so no more than an alcoholic, a person suffering a compulsive disorder or even someone suffering depression. They all have their roots in the brain chemistry not being right and are psychological disorders.

Al, how can you possibly associate or even compare (if that is what you are implying) alcholism and gambling with depression or compulsive disorders??? Alcohlics and gamblers choose to take that first drink or make that first bet and they both go back. Depression and compulsion is with you from birth and in your chemistry as you say.
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: jackstar is back again on February 04, 2010, 12:01:35 PM
People with a gambling addiction "choose" to do so no more than an alcoholic, a person suffering a compulsive disorder or even someone suffering depression. They all have their roots in the brain chemistry not being right and are psychological disorders.

Al, how can you possibly associate or even compare (if that is what you are implying) alcholism and gambling with depression or compulsive disorders??? Alcohlics and gamblers choose to take that first drink or make that first bet and they both go back. Depression and compulsion is with you from birth and in your chemistry as you say.

Incorrect.
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: Smokey on February 04, 2010, 02:11:37 PM
People with a gambling addiction "choose" to do so no more than an alcoholic, a person suffering a compulsive disorder or even someone suffering depression. They all have their roots in the brain chemistry not being right and are psychological disorders.

Al, how can you possibly associate or even compare (if that is what you are implying) alcholism and gambling with depression or compulsive disorders??? Alcohlics and gamblers choose to take that first drink or make that first bet and they both go back. Depression and compulsion is with you from birth and in your chemistry as you say.

Disagree WAT.  The potential for all of these afflictions are with you from birth.  It is your life experiences that help shape the way you handle and deal with this potential and in that way there is no difference between a chemical addiction or a psychological disorder.  You are no more or less likely to become an alcoholic by taking that first drink than you are suffering depression by making choices in life.  As WP said, the key is in taking responsibility for your own actions, and then acknowledging and acting on your particular circumstances.  Anyone can become a problem gambler, anyone can become an alcoholic, and anyone can become compulsive or depressed.
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: Penelope on February 04, 2010, 02:50:07 PM
People with a gambling addiction "choose" to do so no more than an alcoholic, a person suffering a compulsive disorder or even someone suffering depression. They all have their roots in the brain chemistry not being right and are psychological disorders.

Al, how can you possibly associate or even compare (if that is what you are implying) alcholism and gambling with depression or compulsive disorders??? Alcohlics and gamblers choose to take that first drink or make that first bet and they both go back. Depression and compulsion is with you from birth and in your chemistry as you say.

Disagree WAT.  The potential for all of these afflictions are with you from birth.  It is your life experiences that help shape the way you handle and deal with this potential and in that way there is no difference between a chemical addiction or a psychological disorder.  You are no more or less likely to become an alcoholic by taking that first drink than you are suffering depression by making choices in life.  As WP said, the key is in taking responsibility for your own actions, and then acknowledging and acting on your particular circumstances.  Anyone can become a problem gambler, anyone can become an alcoholic, and anyone can become compulsive or depressed.

True to a certain point smokey, but some people do have a greater disposition to these things than others, whether that is genetic, environmental or a combination is a whole other debate.

All of these problems stem from the brain. Even the hard nosed old school thought that people suffering such afflictions were weak, is till an acknowledgment that the problem lies within the brain. I have even had people try to convince me that someone suffering depression is merely week of mind.

There is though an overlap between most of these problems in terms of chemical imbalances and brain patterns.

In terms of how the brain functions we are generally still in the dark ages. Someone suffers from depression or alcoholism they go to a shrink or a counselor. Yet if someones liver starts to play up they will be sent to a medical doctor. The brain is still regarded as some magical thing that we can control, rather what it is, another organ of the body that like all the others requires correct nutrition and can be harmed by toxic substances.

Most people suffering from addictions and depression lack either the ability to produce dopamine (or similar hormones) or the ability for the dopamine to work as it should. Recent research has shown that it is perhaps not the actual consuming of these substances or participating in activities such as gambling (or even sex) that drives these people, but more the anticipation there of, that causes certain activity whithin the brain that make them feel good.

All any person addicted to something is trying to do is to feel good, which is what dopamine does - just not for them . While most us enjoy the 'buzz' we get out of a beer, when having a punt or whatever else floats your boat, most addicts don't so much get a buzz, but just get to feel normal or content.



Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: Smokey on February 04, 2010, 04:26:32 PM

Disagree WAT.  The potential for all of these afflictions are with you from birth.  It is your life experiences that help shape the way you handle and deal with this potential and in that way there is no difference between a chemical addiction or a psychological disorder.  You are no more or less likely to become an alcoholic by taking that first drink than you are suffering depression by making choices in life.  As WP said, the key is in taking responsibility for your own actions, and then acknowledging and acting on your particular circumstances.  Anyone can become a problem gambler, anyone can become an alcoholic, and anyone can become compulsive or depressed.

True to a certain point smokey, but some people do have a greater disposition to these things than others, whether that is genetic, environmental or a combination is a whole other debate.

All of these problems stem from the brain. Even the hard nosed old school thought that people suffering such afflictions were weak, is till an acknowledgment that the problem lies within the brain. I have even had people try to convince me that someone suffering depression is merely week of mind.

There is though an overlap between most of these problems in terms of chemical imbalances and brain patterns.

In terms of how the brain functions we are generally still in the dark ages. Someone suffers from depression or alcoholism they go to a shrink or a counselor. Yet if someones liver starts to play up they will be sent to a medical doctor. The brain is still regarded as some magical thing that we can control, rather what it is, another organ of the body that like all the others requires correct nutrition and can be harmed by toxic substances.

Most people suffering from addictions and depression lack either the ability to produce dopamine (or similar hormones) or the ability for the dopamine to work as it should. Recent research has shown that it is perhaps not the actual consuming of these substances or participating in activities such as gambling (or even sex) that drives these people, but more the anticipation there of, that causes certain activity whithin the brain that make them feel good.

All any person addicted to something is trying to do is to feel good, which is what dopamine does - just not for them . While most us enjoy the 'buzz' we get out of a beer, when having a punt or whatever else floats your boat, most addicts don't so much get a buzz, but just get to feel normal or content.


Yeah, I think we're saying much the same thing Al.  We all have the chemicals and various levels of pre-disposition to malfunction - it's just the way that you choose to handle it that makes the difference.  Some seek help before (or after) an addiction or condition is an issue, others mask it, others surrender to it but at the end of the day you are responsible for your actions in the way that you deal with the situation presented.
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: Penelope on February 04, 2010, 04:52:04 PM
For sure Smokey, the first step is to recognise there is a problem and then want to do something about it. I've got a suspicion that it may be easier said than done.

I know someone who did something they really regretted and believed that it was that act that sent them spiraling down into depression. It was only later that they realised that they already were suffering depression and now believes it was because of this state of mind that they did what they did.

Maybe this caused them to drop to new lows and finally realise there was a problem, I don't know. One night after a few beers they admitted to me that sometimes they would think there was a problem, but quickly push the thought aside. It was only after they started to get on top of things that they really appreciated where they had actually been. Was an interesting insight.
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: WilliamPowell on February 04, 2010, 06:04:30 PM
well explain Betfair WP!
The source of real evil

So Betfair is the real cause of all the problems? Just Betfair?

Look I will be honest I don't know the first thing about Betfair.

Why?  Because I make the CHOICE not to bet or gamble on anything other than Tattslotto so Betfair is of no interest to me

Now I know from your posts Jack you bet and you make that choice. And you make the choice when to say enough is enough and stop. It is your choice isn't it?

As I said it's about taking responsibility for your actions - playing the blame game by blaming everyone and everything else is the easy way out
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: Smokey on February 04, 2010, 06:12:21 PM
For sure Smokey, the first step is to recognise there is a problem and then want to do something about it. I've got a suspicion that it may be easier said than done.

I know someone who did something they really regretted and believed that it was that act that sent them spiraling down into depression. It was only later that they realised that they already were suffering depression and now believes it was because of this state of mind that they did what they did.

Maybe this caused them to drop to new lows and finally realise there was a problem, I don't know. One night after a few beers they admitted to me that sometimes they would think there was a problem, but quickly push the thought aside. It was only after they started to get on top of things that they really appreciated where they had actually been. Was an interesting insight.

That thinking is a bit closer to home than I'm happy to acknowledge.  And it is dead right.
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: FNM on February 04, 2010, 06:14:05 PM
Depression and compulsion is with you from birth and in your chemistry as you say.
I somehow doubt that  ::)
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: jackstar is back again on February 04, 2010, 06:44:53 PM
well explain Betfair WP!
The source of real evil

So Betfair is the real cause of all the problems? Just Betfair?

Look I will be honest I don't know the first thing about Betfair.

Why?  Because I make the CHOICE not to bet or gamble on anything other than Tattslotto so Betfair is of no interest to me

Now I know from your posts Jack you bet and you make that choice. And you make the choice when to say enough is enough and stop. It is your choice isn't it?

As I said it's about taking responsibility for your actions - playing the blame game by blaming everyone and everything else is the easy way out

I love a bet. I have no issue
I know of people who have taken there own life, lost houses etc.
Betfair is a disgrace.
The corporates are just plain parasites
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: Ox on February 04, 2010, 07:01:06 PM
I know of people who have taken there own wife, lost pleasures etc.
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: Infamy on February 04, 2010, 10:34:02 PM
I love a bet. I have no issue
I know of people who have taken there own life, lost houses etc.
Betfair is a disgrace.
The corporates are just plain parasites
How can you single out Betfair in all this? People lose their house and take their lives over more things and plenty more methods of gambling than just Betfair. Stop blaming the business and look at the people. No one wants to take responsibility for anything any more, its just a blame game.
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: jackstar is back again on February 04, 2010, 10:56:10 PM
I love a bet. I have no issue
I know of people who have taken there own life, lost houses etc.
Betfair is a disgrace.
The corporates are just plain parasites
How can you single out Betfair in all this? People lose their house and take their lives over more things and plenty more methods of gambling than just Betfair. Stop blaming the business and look at the people. No one wants to take responsibility for anything any more, its just a blame game.

You have no idea pal.
Gambling is a very serious problem in society.
Betfair is the icing on the cake, as it allows dishonest participants to bet on themselves to lose.( lay themselves ) FACT
This is a mine field for the AFL .
Its a mine field for all sports, cricket ,basketball, tennis etc.
Might also add the TAB has been removed from Rod Lavera arena due to issues with gambling in tennis, I wonder why ::)
The AFL wants it both ways, are extremely nervous about gambling issues but are happy to take the money the Corporate Bookmakers offer through sponsorships, work that out!
can tell you that the AFLPA has been over the top in the last 4 weeks about gambling.
Also of interest that most Corporate Bookmakers are in Darwin due to state restraints and tax breaks etc.
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: Penelope on February 04, 2010, 11:18:55 PM
What you say about betfair is true. Gupta must love betfair. But betfair is not the cause of anyone's addiction. Its just an outlet, as is the TAB, the casino,grog, drugs, sex, shopping, cleaning.

Corporate bookmakers are not good for the racing industry, they can probably still make lots of money without it , without havingh to give anything back.

But they are not to blame for people addictions. It would still happen just through another outlet.
 Blame is the the problem. It's emotional and accusatory. To many there is no difference between blame/excuse and reason, but once you blur that line you will never see the forest for the trees.

The moralities of betfair and corporate bookmakers are a different issue to the cause of addiction.

Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: Owl on February 05, 2010, 08:46:00 AM
Well, I have to say, I doff my cap to Jackstar on calling a spade a spade on this one.  YOu can't polish a turd.
Gambling is a big source of misery for the desperate trying to find a way out, or a trap for those thinking they can make a quid out of it.  Not everyone has iron willpower and epic wisdom we all profess to have here, there are a lots of folks with miserable situations that are made worse through gambling, and, its not just their lives we are talking about, were talking about their kids, partners and so forth.  I can quote stuff that would make your hair stand on end and im sure others have anecdotes too.  So im not a big fan, its like taking the proceeds of other misery merchants like drug dealers in my book, except this is state sanctioned.  Just my opinion not judging anyone else on their opinion.
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: Smokey on February 05, 2010, 09:23:15 AM
Well, I have to say, I doff my cap to Jackstar on calling a spade a spade on this one.  YOu can't polish a turd.
Gambling is a big source of misery for the desperate trying to find a way out, or a trap for those thinking they can make a quid out of it.  Not everyone has iron willpower and epic wisdom we all profess to have here, there are a lots of folks with miserable situations that are made worse through gambling, and, its not just their lives we are talking about, were talking about their kids, partners and so forth.  I can quote stuff that would make your hair stand on end and im sure others have anecdotes too.  So im not a big fan, its like taking the proceeds of other misery merchants like drug dealers in my book, except this is state sanctioned.  Just my opinion not judging anyone else on their opinion.

I'm not going to disagree with your opinion on gambling Owl but I think you missed Jack's point - he wasn't trying to blame or attack gambling, rather accusing the corporate bookmakers of creating dishonesty and bleeding sport of much money.  What you say about gambling is relevant for any kind of addiction or compulsion and that is really what the rest of us have been debating.  And you might find that the iron willpower and epic wisdom of some of us that you refer to are actually personal lessons learned in life the hard way - in many cases in the hardest possible way.
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: Stripes on February 05, 2010, 10:58:29 AM
Just jumped onto to this thread - a great read. Well argued and intelligent posts everyone, particularly al and smokey!  :clapping

Great to see meaningful thread and debate on this forum from time to time.  :thumbsup

Stripes
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: FNM on February 05, 2010, 11:19:24 AM
Good on ya Tiges, well done another great relationship to further advance our club.

There are millions of things out there that ruin peoples lives......... if YOU CHOOSE to do them!!!!!
Nobody "chooses" to be addicted to something, you "become" addicted  ::)
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: WA Tiger on February 05, 2010, 11:27:54 AM
Good on ya Tiges, well done another great relationship to further advance our club.

There are millions of things out there that ruin peoples lives......... if YOU CHOOSE to do them!!!!!
Nobody "chooses" to be addicted to something, you "become" addicted  ::)

You CHOOSE to take the first drink, you CHOOSE to smoke the first ciggy, you CHOOSE to put the first needle in your arm, you CHOOSE to go to the track or TAB for the first time, YOU CHOOSE to take that first step.... AFTER that you become an addict!!!! :banghead
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: FNM on February 05, 2010, 11:45:31 AM
Good on ya Tiges, well done another great relationship to further advance our club.

There are millions of things out there that ruin peoples lives......... if YOU CHOOSE to do them!!!!!
Nobody "chooses" to be addicted to something, you "become" addicted  ::)

You CHOOSE to take the first drink, you CHOOSE to smoke the first ciggy, you CHOOSE to put the first needle in your arm, you CHOOSE to go to the track or TAB for the first time, YOU CHOOSE to take that first step.... AFTER that you become an addict!!!! :banghead
yes, we choose to do those things, but not hoping we become an addict.  We do those things thinking we can stop at any time that we won't develop addictions like others.  It just happens, but we don't choose ADDICTION! You would never understand what it's like in a 100 years.
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: Infamy on February 05, 2010, 11:45:58 AM
Good on ya Tiges, well done another great relationship to further advance our club.

There are millions of things out there that ruin peoples lives......... if YOU CHOOSE to do them!!!!!
Nobody "chooses" to be addicted to something, you "become" addicted  ::)
Sorry but that's just defeatest. People quit these addictions all the time. You can become physically addicted to cigarettes, alcohol and heroin, not gambling. Pyschological addition is very different.

You can CHOOSE to quit... if you want to
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: FNM on February 05, 2010, 11:52:34 AM
People quit these addictions all the time
Yes, lots and lots of people do, but others never do.
And they're the people we're talking about, usually in the poorer socio-economic groups/areas.
It's not a cop out, these are real people not just statistics.
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: Smokey on February 05, 2010, 12:11:18 PM

You can become physically addicted to cigarettes, alcohol and heroin, not gambling. Pyschological addition is very different.


Interesting point Infamy.  Because I'm enjoying the points of view and the debate in general, I ask the question - what causes addiction?  Is it a pre-existing chemical deficiency or imbalance in our system as Al alluded to that exposes us to the risks of becoming addicted, psychologically or physically?  I don't know the answer but I can say from experience that the 'high' you get from addicted gambling is just as real as the high from an external chemical source.  If I accept Al's information then from my personal perspective I would say that gambling is borne of the exact same causes as other types of addiction.
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: FNM on February 05, 2010, 12:18:44 PM
I don't think it's something you're borne with, like genetically,  but because there's so many people from the lower socio-economic groups, more a victim of economic circumstance.
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: Infamy on February 05, 2010, 01:25:27 PM
Interesting point Infamy.  Because I'm enjoying the points of view and the debate in general, I ask the question - what causes addiction?  Is it a pre-existing chemical deficiency or imbalance in our system as Al alluded to that exposes us to the risks of becoming addicted, psychologically or physically?  I don't know the answer but I can say from experience that the 'high' you get from addicted gambling is just as real as the high from an external chemical source.  If I accept Al's information then from my personal perspective I would say that gambling is borne of the exact same causes as other types of addiction.
As far as I'm aware no one has proved that addiction is genetic, but there's plenty of evidence in both directions. It's often viewed as affecting the poor and those from tough upbringings, however I think it affects the wealthy just as much if not more. Those with no money can't afford to support their addictions so it limits their abuse unless they turn to something like crime to fund their habit. Those who have the money can have far worse addictions in some ways because they can afford more, they hide their addiction better, they are well educated and well financed, that doesn't make them less addicted. Addiction transcends the classes of society.

What is known is that the body develops a dependency on some substances of abuse. One that's becoming more and more prevalent is prescription drugs, but alcohol, nicotine and heroin dependency has been known for some time. Watching someone shaking or convulsing when going through heroin withdrawal is not pretty. People still kick the habit when they really want to though, if they can do it before they hit rock bottom then they're lucky.
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: FNM on February 05, 2010, 01:46:02 PM
They don't put Tabarets in the Broadmeadows areas and the likes for no reason. They target the vulnerable.
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: WA Tiger on February 05, 2010, 02:43:49 PM
Good on ya Tiges, well done another great relationship to further advance our club.

There are millions of things out there that ruin peoples lives......... if YOU CHOOSE to do them!!!!!
Nobody "chooses" to be addicted to something, you "become" addicted  ::)

You CHOOSE to take the first drink, you CHOOSE to smoke the first ciggy, you CHOOSE to put the first needle in your arm, you CHOOSE to go to the track or TAB for the first time, YOU CHOOSE to take that first step.... AFTER that you become an addict!!!! :banghead
yes, we choose to do those things, but not hoping we become an addict.  We do those things thinking we can stop at any time that we won't develop addictions like others.  It just happens, but we don't choose ADDICTION! You would never understand what it's like in a 100 years.

Why wouldn't I understand, do you know me, no you don't. I smoked many things for many years and I gave them up, I chose to take it up and I chose to give them up!!! Diseases such depression or compulsive dissorder people have from birth, I wasn't born with a pack of ciggies or a bong in my hand was I???
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: FNM on February 05, 2010, 03:07:56 PM
Diseases such depression or compulsive dissorder people have from birth
How so?
I have it, but I've only had it on and off for the last 20 years.  I wasn't born with it.
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: Infamy on February 05, 2010, 03:18:58 PM
Diseases such depression or compulsive dissorder people have from birth
How so?
I have it, but I've only had it on and off for the last 20 years.  I wasn't born with it.
Not all depression or compulsive disorder is genetic, but some is. You can't apply gross generalisations to something like depression which has so many variants.
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: WA Tiger on February 05, 2010, 03:47:46 PM
Diseases such depression or compulsive dissorder people have from birth
How so?
I have it, but I've only had it on and off for the last 20 years.  I wasn't born with it.


Most Richmond supporters do have it.... ;), Seriously, I hope you are coping ok with it.
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: Penelope on February 05, 2010, 04:36:41 PM
For an insight into what may be at the very root of these problems, this is an interesting article.
http://www.gaps.me/?page_id=20

While it deals more with depression and such disorders she does mention how such people end up being more prone so substance abuse. The link between psychological disorders and addictions is not exactly a revelation.

Wat, while people may choose to have that first whatever, as FNM has already stated, no-one actually chooses to go down the path of self destruction.

When people have an attitude that you can choose just to quit whenever you want and therefore implying, or sometimes saying, that you are somehow weak or inferior because you cant stop, all you are doing is making it hard for these people to even acknowledge their problem.

Could you imagine how hard it would be for someone trying to face up to such a problem, knowing, or thinking, those around them will judge them because they cant just stop at will?



Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: Penelope on February 05, 2010, 04:43:45 PM
meant to put this link in first, as an introduction
http://www.gaps.me/preview/
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: FNM on February 05, 2010, 04:49:17 PM
Diseases such depression or compulsive dissorder people have from birth
How so?
I have it, but I've only had it on and off for the last 20 years.  I wasn't born with it.


Most Richmond supporters do have it.... ;), Seriously, I hope you are coping ok with it.
 
Thanks.  I am now  :thumbsup
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: Mr Magic on February 05, 2010, 04:50:51 PM
LOL Tabcorp giving something back to the community
.Gambling has ruined many peoples lives in our community

Was my immediate thought too.
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: FNM on February 05, 2010, 05:09:30 PM
as FNM has already stated, no-one actually chooses to go down the path of self destruction.

And they're not born with it.
Without going into it, my problems started from a traumatic event
But you don't even realise it until you self-destruct
Even the depression is not apparent until you have a breakdown and you really need help
I didn't choose to self-destruct - it chose me
But you realise after you do go through all that, and you talk about it, you're far from alone.
There are so many people in society with similar problems
So many of my friends who I've confided in have had exactly the same problems
You can look at people in Haiti and count your blessings we have what we have, but there's a lot of people doing in tough at the moment, gamblers, addicts of one kind or another. Sure they chose to do these things, but they didn't choose to destroy their lives. If it wasn't such a money earner for governments, like the alcohol industry, you wouuld be damn sure both those industries would be abolished if governments were prepared to get serious
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: jackstar is back again on February 05, 2010, 05:24:05 PM
as FNM has already stated, no-one actually chooses to go down the path of self destruction.

And they're not born with it.
Without going into it, my problems started from a traumatic event
But you don't even realise it until you self-destruct
Even the depression is not apparent until you have a breakdown and you really need help
I didn't choose to self-destruct - it chose me
But you realise after you do go through all that, and you talk about it, you're far from alone.
There are so many people in society with similar problems
So many of my friends who I've confided in have had exactly the same problems
You can look at people in Haiti and count your blessings we have what we have, but there's a lot of people doing in tough at the moment, gamblers, addicts of one kind or another. Sure they chose to do these things, but they didn't choose to destroy their lives. If it wasn't such a money earner for governments, like the alcohol industry, you wouuld be damn sure both those industries would be abolished if governments were prepared to get serious

Totally agree, especially with the governments stance on things.
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: Owl on February 05, 2010, 05:42:42 PM
Well, I have to say, I doff my cap to Jackstar on calling a spade a spade on this one.  YOu can't polish a turd.
Gambling is a big source of misery for the desperate trying to find a way out, or a trap for those thinking they can make a quid out of it.  Not everyone has iron willpower and epic wisdom we all profess to have here, there are a lots of folks with miserable situations that are made worse through gambling, and, its not just their lives we are talking about, were talking about their kids, partners and so forth.  I can quote stuff that would make your hair stand on end and im sure others have anecdotes too.  So im not a big fan, its like taking the proceeds of other misery merchants like drug dealers in my book, except this is state sanctioned.  Just my opinion not judging anyone else on their opinion.

I'm not going to disagree with your opinion on gambling Owl but I think you missed Jack's point - he wasn't trying to blame or attack gambling, rather accusing the corporate bookmakers of creating dishonesty and bleeding sport of much money.  What you say about gambling is relevant for any kind of addiction or compulsion and that is really what the rest of us have been debating.  And you might find that the iron willpower and epic wisdom of some of us that you refer to are actually personal lessons learned in life the hard way - in many cases in the hardest possible way.
sorry I should of quoted his first post on the matter
"LOL Tabcorp giving something back to the community
.Gambling has ruined many peoples lives in our community"
I thought my response was relevant....I could be mistaken have I missed a point somewhere?
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: Smokey on February 05, 2010, 06:29:27 PM
Well, I have to say, I doff my cap to Jackstar on calling a spade a spade on this one.  YOu can't polish a turd.
Gambling is a big source of misery for the desperate trying to find a way out, or a trap for those thinking they can make a quid out of it.  Not everyone has iron willpower and epic wisdom we all profess to have here, there are a lots of folks with miserable situations that are made worse through gambling, and, its not just their lives we are talking about, were talking about their kids, partners and so forth.  I can quote stuff that would make your hair stand on end and im sure others have anecdotes too.  So im not a big fan, its like taking the proceeds of other misery merchants like drug dealers in my book, except this is state sanctioned.  Just my opinion not judging anyone else on their opinion.

I'm not going to disagree with your opinion on gambling Owl but I think you missed Jack's point - he wasn't trying to blame or attack gambling, rather accusing the corporate bookmakers of creating dishonesty and bleeding sport of much money.  What you say about gambling is relevant for any kind of addiction or compulsion and that is really what the rest of us have been debating.  And you might find that the iron willpower and epic wisdom of some of us that you refer to are actually personal lessons learned in life the hard way - in many cases in the hardest possible way.
sorry I should of quoted his first post on the matter
"LOL Tabcorp giving something back to the community
.Gambling has ruined many peoples lives in our community"
I thought my response was relevant....I could be mistaken have I missed a point somewhere?

Yes, it is relevant and makes more sense by including Jack's first post but if you follow his post's through then I'm sure you can see he is having a go at the corporate bookmakers, not gambling itself.  As I said, I agree with your opinion, I just thought you had missed his main point.
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: Owl on February 05, 2010, 07:10:03 PM
fair enough
I am as slow as a wet week and respond to a post 500 posts later lol.  :thumbsup
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: Smokey on February 05, 2010, 07:28:16 PM
fair enough
I am as slow as a wet week and respond to a post 500 posts later lol.  :thumbsup

 :lol  I fully get that!
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: bojangles17 on February 05, 2010, 10:08:29 PM
jack after your post i dont know whether to jump for joy or cry.....re-the tabcorp announcement

Like it or not its the truth.
Cigeratte Advertising and sponsorships are banned in sports.
Give it 5 years and the likes of Betfair, Tabcorp, Luxbet, IAS etc etc. will be given the stuff as well.
Gambling is not welcomed in sport
!
How on earth does betfair still  sponsors is beyond belief

rubbish, do you have any idea how much revenue gaming contributes to government coffers????...More likely limits put on alcohol advertising although Id doubt it...
Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: jackstar is back again on February 05, 2010, 10:39:29 PM
Its amazing how many people have no idea.
betfair head office is overseas based.
And most corporate bookmakers operate out of Darwin due to regulations and tax concessions.
Betfair and Corporate Bookmakers contribute little back into the industries they make money out of.

Title: Re: Tabcorp joins Tigers’ Community (RFC)
Post by: Smokey on February 05, 2010, 10:52:43 PM
Its amazing how many people have no idea.
betfair head office is overseas based.
And most corporate bookmakers operate out of Darwin due to regulations and tax concessions.
Betfair and Corporate Bookmakers contribute little back into the industries they make money out of.


I think most of us have a very good idea Jack.  I don't think anyone is arguing the morals of your opinion, just the likelihood of the government changing it's attitude anytime soon.