One-Eyed Richmond Forum

Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: WilliamPowell on November 24, 2010, 04:23:44 PM

Title: Tigers Record $2,846,065 Profit for 2010
Post by: WilliamPowell on November 24, 2010, 04:23:44 PM
Just downloaded the Financial Reports for 2010 of the RFC site

Still reviewing the numbers but they are good

Net Profit = $2,846,065 (2009: $1,590,755) this includes any funding received for the redevelopment

Profit relating to Operations = $759,142 Profit (2009: $244,245 loss) - this is a very good number. Put simply this is what we made on our own

Caro's Favourite topic our debt: Interest Bearing Liabilities $4,500,000 (2009: 4,912,625) - yes it's gone down  ;D

Total Revenues excluding Govt grants: $31,548,552 (2009: 29,979,779) - another good number but still needs to increase in coming years

As I said I am just go through numbers at the minute but on as read so far they are good numbers

Well done RFC  :thumbsup
Title: Re: Tigers Record $2,846,065 Profit for 2010
Post by: Carvels Ring on November 24, 2010, 04:57:55 PM
thats gotta be better than rattling a can :gotigers
Title: Re: Tigers Record $2,846,065 Profit for 2010
Post by: Yorka on November 24, 2010, 05:21:19 PM
Philip Anderson would've snagged us a $4mil profit and we still wouldn't have known how
Title: Re: Tigers Record $2,846,065 Profit for 2010
Post by: Chuck17 on November 24, 2010, 05:22:37 PM
Philip Anderson would've snagged us a $4mil profit and we still wouldn't have known how

I reckon he could have made $6m without blinking
Title: Re: Tigers Record $2,846,065 Profit for 2010
Post by: bojangles17 on November 24, 2010, 07:04:11 PM
that's super news on the operating profit, to be in the black in a year that we came 15th relfects a STRONG business model and augers well for when we begin to make some genuine onfield progress :thumbsup
Title: Re: Tigers Record $2,846,065 Profit for 2010
Post by: tony_montana on November 24, 2010, 07:26:24 PM
aint that the truth bo

thats bloody fantastic news. I've been highly critical of our fiscal management for a very long time. To see us turn a healthy profit (on our own) in a period of:
development
bottoming out (no short cuts) and
an increased footy department spend (by a huge % mind you)

shows that management are right on top of the business.

Nice to see the debt come down a little as well finally  ;D, now that we seem to have streamed our business model into a profitable unit, the next step is to grow our revenue streams in a big way. Obviously onfield success will help enormously but importantly it looks as though our house is genuinely in order and will be able to handle it

 :gotigers
Title: Re: Tigers Record $2,846,065 Profit for 2010
Post by: TigerTimTam on November 24, 2010, 08:19:37 PM
Can somebody please help me.

Cash & cash Equivalent in 2009 = $14,559,983 Now we have Cash & Cash Equivalent in 2010 = 7,735,074

Difference = -$6,824,909

Yet our

Property, Plant & Equipment 2009 = $4,917,664   Now we have Property, Plant & Equipments 2010 = $13,188,955

Difference = +$8,271,291

So our physical real cash position has come down, yet the value of our property & equipment has theoretically gone up. Why the big difference?
Title: Re: Tigers Record $2,846,065 Profit for 2010
Post by: one-eyed on November 24, 2010, 08:34:40 PM
Richmond Financial Result
richmondfc.com.au
Wed 24 Nov, 2010


Richmond Football Club has announced an operating profit of $759,142 for the financial year ending October 31, 2010.

The net profit for the financial year was $2.85 million. This figure includes $1.9 million of government grants attributable to the redevelopment of the Punt Road Oval.
 
The Club has now announced six consecutive net profits. The Club also has a net asset position of $13.3 million.

"We are delighted with the final result given the difficult economic conditions throughout 2010 and the poor on-field performance of our team in the early part of the season," Richmond president Gary March said.

"The board and management of the Club have set some ambitious targets for the next three to four years and this result gives us something to build upon. This result is a credit to the management and staff of the Club.

 "The board remains conscious of the significant level of debt the Club is carrying, so while this figure is pleasing, there are significant issues that need to be addressed to allow us to reach our future goals. That will be a key focus of the board and senior management in 2011.

"I would like to again thank our members and supporters for the wonderful support they provide the Club. They are the cornerstone upon which great clubs are built and that support clearly played an important role in us delivering this off-field result."

http://www.richmondfc.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/6301/newsid/105618/default.aspx
Title: Re: Tigers Record $2,846,065 Profit for 2010
Post by: WilliamPowell on November 24, 2010, 08:53:07 PM
Can somebody please help me.

Cash & cash Equivalent in 2009 = $14,559,983 Now we have Cash & Cash Equivalent in 2010 = 7,735,074

Difference = -$6,824,909

Yet our

Property, Plant & Equipment 2009 = $4,917,664   Now we have Property, Plant & Equipments 2010 = $13,188,955

Difference = +$8,271,291

So our physical real cash position has come down, yet the value of our property & equipment has theoretically gone up. Why the big difference?

Because we are using the CASH to pay for the redevelopment. One asset goes down (cash) because it is being used to pay for the construction of the new buildings (Property)
Title: Re: Tigers Record $2,846,065 Profit for 2010
Post by: torch on November 25, 2010, 12:20:27 AM
WP - would any profit be thrown on the debt do you think?

 ???
Title: Re: Tigers Record $2,846,065 Profit for 2010
Post by: WilliamPowell on November 25, 2010, 06:59:32 AM
WP - would any profit be thrown on the debt do you think?

 ???

torch - any monies received for the redevelopment (govt grants) can only be used for the redevelopment - nothing else

The debt can only be repaid via cash because they are in effect loans from the bank (commercial bills).

So yes any extra cash we have generated from operating profit can be used to repay the debt. As I posted in my original (first) post the club has reduced it's "Interest Bearing Liabilities (read loans) by $500k from $4.9mil to $4.5 so it is clear that some

I don't really want to bore people with rhe technicalities of accounting  ;D but cash and profit in accounting can be 2 very different things. 

I got a copy of the "Full Financials" which are much more detailed than what MT has posted because it gives detailed notes on things and I can say IMHO the Club has recorded a very good set of numbers
Title: Re: Tigers Record $2,846,065 Profit for 2010
Post by: TigerTimTam on November 25, 2010, 09:44:48 AM
Because we are using the CASH to pay for the redevelopment. One asset goes down (cash) because it is being used to pay for the construction of the new buildings (Property)

I understand that part. But I cant understand why the difference? What is the difference based on?

 
Title: Re: Tigers Record $2,846,065 Profit for 2010
Post by: 10 FLAGS on November 25, 2010, 09:46:51 AM
I just want to welcome people to OER's School of Accounting - Class is currently in session  ;D
Title: Re: Tigers Record $2,846,065 Profit for 2010
Post by: 10 FLAGS on November 25, 2010, 09:49:25 AM
I'd like to know how and why buildings on Crown Land is considered an asset since its not owned and cannot be onsold by the lease holder.
Title: Re: Tigers Record $2,846,065 Profit for 2010
Post by: Penelope on November 25, 2010, 09:52:12 AM
Because we are using the CASH to pay for the redevelopment. One asset goes down (cash) because it is being used to pay for the construction of the new buildings (Property)

I understand that part. But I cant understand why the difference? What is the difference based on?

 

It's because assets can either appreciate, or increase in value, or they depreciate.  That's where the difference comes in.

Title: Re: Tigers Record $2,846,065 Profit for 2010
Post by: Penelope on November 25, 2010, 09:56:12 AM
I'd like to know how and why buildings on Crown Land is considered an asset since its not owned and cannot be onsold by the lease holder.

They can be on sold if you transfer the lease as well, but from an accounting perspective it doesnt matter if you own the land your assets sit on or not.

I wasn't aware the land is crown land. Does anyone know the duration and terms of the lease?
Title: Re: Tigers Record $2,846,065 Profit for 2010
Post by: Muscles on November 25, 2010, 10:00:45 AM
So, do we have a lease on the land?  Is it transferrable?  Would anyone ever want to buy the buildings off us?

Do we classify the old grandstand at Punt Rd as an asset?  Hard to understand how that could ever help earn us net revenue. The maintenance cost must be crippling. That is, if anybody ever spends any money maintaing it.
Title: Re: Tigers Record $2,846,065 Profit for 2010
Post by: Infamy on November 25, 2010, 10:10:51 AM
So, do we have a lease on the land?  Is it transferrable?  Would anyone ever want to buy the buildings off us?

Do we classify the old grandstand at Punt Rd as an asset?  Hard to understand how that could ever help earn us net revenue. The maintenance cost must be crippling. That is, if anybody ever spends any money maintaing it.
It doesn't matter, it HAS to be included
It will be the same for all clubs
Title: Re: Tigers Record $2,846,065 Profit for 2010
Post by: TigerTimTam on November 25, 2010, 10:27:41 AM
It's because assets can either appreciate, or increase in value, or they depreciate.  That's where the difference comes in.

Ok. So for accounting purpose we are appreciating the value of our Property, Plant & Equipments 2010.

Is that what you are saying? And we are appreciating at a greater value than the physical cash we are spending on it?
Title: Re: Tigers Record $2,846,065 Profit for 2010
Post by: WilliamPowell on November 25, 2010, 11:36:51 AM
I just want to welcome people to OER's School of Accounting - Class is currently in session  ;D

Thank you  ;D

So many questions... as I said I don't really want to go into or bore people with all the techo accounting things

But I will try and keep it simple  :P

First principle in accounting Debits must equal Credits.

As I've said a couple of times cash and profit are 2 separate things

Finally - the Club is bound by LAW to follow accounting standards. Whether we think the standards make any sense is not relevant. Under Corp Law in this country the Club must follow these standards. I've got very annoyed over the years when it has been suggested the club has included JDF donations as revenue to boost its bottom line when legally the club must do it

Quote
I wasn't aware the land is crown land. Does anyone know the duration and terms of the lease?

The land is owned by the MElb City Council who lease to the the Richmond Cricket Club who sub lease it the RFC. My understanding is the lease between the Council, Cricket Club & the Footy Club run con-currently until 2022 or somewhere around there.

Quote
I'd like to know how and why buildings on Crown Land is considered an asset since its not owned and cannot be onsold by the lease holder.

It can be on sold to the land owner if we were to move as the land owner (Council) would want the the buildings as it is classed a community facility.

Quote
Because we are using the CASH to pay for the redevelopment. One asset goes down (cash) because it is being used to pay for the construction of the new buildings (Property)
Quote

I understand that part. But I cant understand why the difference? What is the difference based on?
Quote
It's because assets can either appreciate, or increase in value, or they depreciate.  That's where the difference comes in.

You are sort of right al, assets certainly can depreciate and the Club is legally bound to depreciate all its assets over a period of time. Depreciation is a great example of a expense being incurred but having no affect on cash = a non cash transaction that impacts on profit

As for assets appreciating - this is usually done via a directors revaluation of assets and if this to happen it must be declared in the accounts.

Quote
I understand that part. But I cant understand why the difference? What is the difference based on?

Quote
Ok. So for accounting purpose we are appreciating the value of our Property, Plant & Equipments 2010.

Is that what you are saying? And we are appreciating at a greater value than the physical cash we are spending on it?

No

The other key document that needs to be considered here is the Statement of Cash Flow as that shows where all the money has come from and where it has gone

But what you need to remember is that Cash is made of two components the Cash held for the re-development and cash held for normal trading. The Balance sheet combines the 2 amounts to give one figure (under acctg standards that is all the club as to do).  

We would have paid from the redvelopment cash account the costs associated with the buildings and the buildings would be recored at their "fair value" which is usually the cost.

All other payments come from our trade account. The Cash Flow clearly shows that from normal opertaing (trading) activities we have generated an increase in our cash levels by nearly $600k

On top of that we have rec'd another $1.6mil in grants.

Simply in the course of the year we generated $2.214 in cash and paid out $9.038 in cash resulting in a net decrease in cash held of $6.824 mil
Title: Re: Tigers Record $2,846,065 Profit for 2010
Post by: RedanTiger on November 25, 2010, 12:51:56 PM

The land is owned by the MElb City Council who lease to the the Richmond Cricket Club who sub lease it the RFC. My understanding is the lease between the Council, Cricket Club & the Footy Club run con-currently until 2022 or somewhere around there.

With the statements about the Cricket Club moving from Punt Road Oval it will be interesting how this plays out.
Would think that the lease would be re-negotiated to be between the Council and the footy club.

Hope the club are across all the details since it has the potential to get messy ie prime location, redeveloped, other prospective tenants/users.



Edited to correct quote
Title: Re: Tigers Record $2,846,065 Profit for 2010
Post by: WilliamPowell on November 25, 2010, 08:28:54 PM

The land is owned by the MElb City Council who lease to the the Richmond Cricket Club who sub lease it the RFC. My understanding is the lease between the Council, Cricket Club & the Footy Club run con-currently until 2022 or somewhere around there.

With the statements about the Cricket Club moving from Punt Road Oval it will be interesting how this plays out.
Would think that the lease would be re-negotiated to be between the Council and the footy club.

Hope the club are across all the details since it has the potential to get messy ie prime location, redeveloped, other prospective tenants/users.



Edited to correct quote

Becomes a mute point IMHO the RFC owns 51% of the Richmond Cricket Club, therefore indirectly controls the lease
Title: Re: Tigers Record $2,846,065 Profit for 2010
Post by: mightytiges on November 26, 2010, 12:29:39 AM
Well done all involved at the RFC  :clapping. A great result given we were 0-9 and compared to Fitzroy.

The Cash Flow clearly shows that from normal opertaing (trading) activities we have generated an increase in our cash levels by nearly $600k
WP, did that figure include the $800k we received for the improved stadium deal with the MCG (ie. 8 home games x $100k) ? IIRC the deal was signed for the 2009 season onwards but wasn't signed off by the Government until after Oct 31 last year and so that extra money from the 2009 season was to be included in the 2010 budget along with the $800k from the 2010 season. I'm asking as that first $800k (from the 2009 season) is a one-off. Also does it say in the full financials that that one-off payment was in part used to reduce our debt by $500k?
Title: Re: Tigers Record $2,846,065 Profit for 2010
Post by: WilliamPowell on November 26, 2010, 07:11:00 AM
WP, did that figure include the $800k we received for the improved stadium deal with the MCG (ie. 8 home games x $100k) ? IIRC the deal was signed for the 2009 season onwards but wasn't signed off by the Government until after Oct 31 last year and so that extra money from the 2009 season was to be included in the 2010 budget along with the $800k from the 2010 season. I'm asking as that first $800k (from the 2009 season) is a one-off. Also does it say in the full financials that that one-off payment was in part used to reduce our debt by $500k?

RE: 800K - I would assume it did MT - the reports don't say. It would be included in one of the categories listed in the Cash flow "receipts from footy operations"

I have finished reading the full financials yet its 31 pages - will finish it over the weekend.

From what I've read so far no it doesn't say what the one off payment was used for, nor should it. It's just like the monies received in the past regarding the sale of Waverley - we don't know what that went to. 
Title: Re: Tigers Record $2,846,065 Profit for 2010
Post by: mightytiges on November 27, 2010, 08:25:42 PM
WP, did that figure include the $800k we received for the improved stadium deal with the MCG (ie. 8 home games x $100k) ? IIRC the deal was signed for the 2009 season onwards but wasn't signed off by the Government until after Oct 31 last year and so that extra money from the 2009 season was to be included in the 2010 budget along with the $800k from the 2010 season. I'm asking as that first $800k (from the 2009 season) is a one-off. Also does it say in the full financials that that one-off payment was in part used to reduce our debt by $500k?

RE: 800K - I would assume it did MT - the reports don't say. It would be included in one of the categories listed in the Cash flow "receipts from footy operations"

I have finished reading the full financials yet its 31 pages - will finish it over the weekend.

From what I've read so far no it doesn't say what the one off payment was used for, nor should it. It's just like the monies received in the past regarding the sale of Waverley - we don't know what that went to. 
Ta WP.

The only problem I have with the $800k included in the normal operational monies is because it is a one-off anomoly and so it isn't income we can rely on going forth (even though legally it doesn't have to be separated). Compare that to the grant money which is given as a separated figure from the operational revenue figure. Take off next year $800k plus another $300k from the Royal Oak moving out of our hands and that's on paper 1.1 million quid off this year's total revenue :-\.
Title: Re: Tigers Record $2,846,065 Profit for 2010
Post by: WilliamPowell on November 28, 2010, 07:02:01 PM
The only problem I have with the $800k included in the normal operational monies is because it is a one-off anomoly and so it isn't income we can rely on going forth (even though legally it doesn't have to be separated). Compare that to the grant money which is given as a separated figure from the operational revenue figure. Take off next year $800k plus another $300k from the Royal Oak moving out of our hands and that's on paper 1.1 million quid off this year's total revenue :-\.

True MT but factor in the $1 to $1.1 million they are going to get from the Darwin & Cairns games that wasn't there this year and you've squared it away - you start even once more  :thumbsup

PS: sorry for the delay we've had no internet at home since lunch time yesterday - bloody Telstra Bigpond  :banghead
Title: Re: Tigers Record $2,846,065 Profit for 2010
Post by: bojangles17 on November 28, 2010, 07:19:14 PM
additional stadium monies isnt ONE off. it's an increased rate ea year from now on ::)
Title: Re: Tigers Record $2,846,065 Profit for 2010
Post by: WilliamPowell on November 28, 2010, 09:20:47 PM
additional stadium monies isnt ONE off. it's an increased rate ea year from now on ::)

Correct bj17 but what MT was talking about was the fact we got 2 years worth of the new stadium deal money in 2010 (2009 & 2010).

So although we keeping receiving it we will get less next year compared to what we received from it this year
Title: Re: Tigers Record $2,846,065 Profit for 2010
Post by: TigerTimTam on November 29, 2010, 10:03:08 AM
PS: sorry for the delay we've had no internet at home since lunch time yesterday - bloody Telstra Bigpond  :banghead

Sorry to hear this. Thankyou for your time. I think thanks to you I have a better understanding of what is happening.
Title: Re: Tigers Record $2,846,065 Profit for 2010
Post by: mightytiges on November 29, 2010, 12:47:49 PM
additional stadium monies isnt ONE off. it's an increased rate ea year from now on ::)

Correct bj17 but what MT was talking about was the fact we got 2 years worth of the new stadium deal money in 2010 (2009 & 2010).

So although we keeping receiving it we will get less next year compared to what we received from it this year
Precisely WP  :thumbsup

The only problem I have with the $800k included in the normal operational monies is because it is a one-off anomoly and so it isn't income we can rely on going forth (even though legally it doesn't have to be separated). Compare that to the grant money which is given as a separated figure from the operational revenue figure. Take off next year $800k plus another $300k from the Royal Oak moving out of our hands and that's on paper 1.1 million quid off this year's total revenue :-\.

True MT but factor in the $1 to $1.1 million they are going to get from the Darwin & Cairns games that wasn't there this year and you've squared it away - you start even once more  :thumbsup

PS: sorry for the delay we've had no internet at home since lunch time yesterday - bloody Telstra Bigpond  :banghead
Ta WP. I forgot for the moment about the monies from the two interstate 'home' games. Although this means we are at least in the short-term reliant on playing home games interstate as a source of income to maintain our current total revenue levels rather than it being 'extra' cash  :-\. The job now for the Board is to build up our revenue base so in the long-term we aren't reliant on these games and we can play almost all of our home games at the 'G. If we can wipe out our debt owing in the next 12 months as planned then that'll save roughly $300k or so in no longer having to make repayments. The idea of a Future Fund is obviously part of increasing our revenue base as well.
Title: Re: Tigers Record $2,846,065 Profit for 2010
Post by: Penelope on November 29, 2010, 04:57:24 PM
That is why they have taken on the interstate games in the first place.
Title: Re: Tigers Record $2,846,065 Profit for 2010
Post by: one-eyed on February 06, 2011, 02:30:55 AM
A poster on BF has put together a table of each club's financial status (revenue, assets, liabilities, etc) based on 2010 annual reports:

http://www.worldofwookie.com/docs/afl%20financials%202011.xlsx (http://www.worldofwookie.com/docs/afl%20financials%202011.xlsx)
Title: Re: Tigers Record $2,846,065 Profit for 2010
Post by: Fishfinger on February 06, 2011, 09:45:45 AM
Good that someone has gone to the trouble.
Our membership figure is wrong in the table. We had 42,311 members in 2010.
Title: Re: Tigers Record $2,846,065 Profit for 2010
Post by: Hard Roar Tiger on February 06, 2011, 09:52:27 AM
Good that someone has gone to the trouble.
Our membership figure is wrong in the table. We had 42,311 members in 2010.

Looks like our ticketed membership which we used to separate until this year.
Title: Re: Tigers Record $2,846,065 Profit for 2010
Post by: mightytiges on February 08, 2011, 01:03:36 AM
Good that someone has gone to the trouble.
Our membership figure is wrong in the table. We had 42,311 members in 2010.

Looks like our ticketed membership which we used to separate until this year.
Yep they have only included the ticketed members which appear in the AFL's audit. The club has been smart this year connecting 3 games to the Tiger Insider or whatever it is called now so they are now included. Look out for the Herald-Sun story in early July from a slack journo stating our membership this year has rocketed up by 30% because he/she doesn't realise what has happened. It'll look good in the paper that we've jumped from 36k in 2010 up to around the 50k mark this year.
Title: Re: Tigers Record $2,846,065 Profit for 2010
Post by: gerkin greg on February 08, 2011, 08:59:32 AM
slack journo's at the HUN? Surely you jest MT?
Title: Re: Tigers Record $2,846,065 Profit for 2010
Post by: mightytiges on February 08, 2011, 04:34:57 PM
slack journo's at the HUN? Surely you jest MT?
Shame on me lol.
Title: Re: Tigers Record $2,846,065 Profit for 2010
Post by: the claw on February 09, 2011, 11:47:52 PM
the bottom line is we are still 4.5 mil in debt. a figure that has hardly moved in how many yrs now.