Author Topic: Tigers Record $2,846,065 Profit for 2010  (Read 4327 times)

Offline Penelope

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Re: Tigers Record $2,846,065 Profit for 2010
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2010, 09:56:12 AM »
I'd like to know how and why buildings on Crown Land is considered an asset since its not owned and cannot be onsold by the lease holder.

They can be on sold if you transfer the lease as well, but from an accounting perspective it doesnt matter if you own the land your assets sit on or not.

I wasn't aware the land is crown land. Does anyone know the duration and terms of the lease?
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Offline Muscles

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Re: Tigers Record $2,846,065 Profit for 2010
« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2010, 10:00:45 AM »
So, do we have a lease on the land?  Is it transferrable?  Would anyone ever want to buy the buildings off us?

Do we classify the old grandstand at Punt Rd as an asset?  Hard to understand how that could ever help earn us net revenue. The maintenance cost must be crippling. That is, if anybody ever spends any money maintaing it.

Offline Infamy

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Re: Tigers Record $2,846,065 Profit for 2010
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2010, 10:10:51 AM »
So, do we have a lease on the land?  Is it transferrable?  Would anyone ever want to buy the buildings off us?

Do we classify the old grandstand at Punt Rd as an asset?  Hard to understand how that could ever help earn us net revenue. The maintenance cost must be crippling. That is, if anybody ever spends any money maintaing it.
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Offline TigerTimTam

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Re: Tigers Record $2,846,065 Profit for 2010
« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2010, 10:27:41 AM »
It's because assets can either appreciate, or increase in value, or they depreciate.  That's where the difference comes in.

Ok. So for accounting purpose we are appreciating the value of our Property, Plant & Equipments 2010.

Is that what you are saying? And we are appreciating at a greater value than the physical cash we are spending on it?

Offline WilliamPowell

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Re: Tigers Record $2,846,065 Profit for 2010
« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2010, 11:36:51 AM »
I just want to welcome people to OER's School of Accounting - Class is currently in session  ;D

Thank you  ;D

So many questions... as I said I don't really want to go into or bore people with all the techo accounting things

But I will try and keep it simple  :P

First principle in accounting Debits must equal Credits.

As I've said a couple of times cash and profit are 2 separate things

Finally - the Club is bound by LAW to follow accounting standards. Whether we think the standards make any sense is not relevant. Under Corp Law in this country the Club must follow these standards. I've got very annoyed over the years when it has been suggested the club has included JDF donations as revenue to boost its bottom line when legally the club must do it

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I wasn't aware the land is crown land. Does anyone know the duration and terms of the lease?

The land is owned by the MElb City Council who lease to the the Richmond Cricket Club who sub lease it the RFC. My understanding is the lease between the Council, Cricket Club & the Footy Club run con-currently until 2022 or somewhere around there.

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I'd like to know how and why buildings on Crown Land is considered an asset since its not owned and cannot be onsold by the lease holder.

It can be on sold to the land owner if we were to move as the land owner (Council) would want the the buildings as it is classed a community facility.

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Because we are using the CASH to pay for the redevelopment. One asset goes down (cash) because it is being used to pay for the construction of the new buildings (Property)
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I understand that part. But I cant understand why the difference? What is the difference based on?
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It's because assets can either appreciate, or increase in value, or they depreciate.  That's where the difference comes in.

You are sort of right al, assets certainly can depreciate and the Club is legally bound to depreciate all its assets over a period of time. Depreciation is a great example of a expense being incurred but having no affect on cash = a non cash transaction that impacts on profit

As for assets appreciating - this is usually done via a directors revaluation of assets and if this to happen it must be declared in the accounts.

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I understand that part. But I cant understand why the difference? What is the difference based on?

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Ok. So for accounting purpose we are appreciating the value of our Property, Plant & Equipments 2010.

Is that what you are saying? And we are appreciating at a greater value than the physical cash we are spending on it?

No

The other key document that needs to be considered here is the Statement of Cash Flow as that shows where all the money has come from and where it has gone

But what you need to remember is that Cash is made of two components the Cash held for the re-development and cash held for normal trading. The Balance sheet combines the 2 amounts to give one figure (under acctg standards that is all the club as to do).  

We would have paid from the redvelopment cash account the costs associated with the buildings and the buildings would be recored at their "fair value" which is usually the cost.

All other payments come from our trade account. The Cash Flow clearly shows that from normal opertaing (trading) activities we have generated an increase in our cash levels by nearly $600k

On top of that we have rec'd another $1.6mil in grants.

Simply in the course of the year we generated $2.214 in cash and paid out $9.038 in cash resulting in a net decrease in cash held of $6.824 mil
« Last Edit: November 25, 2010, 08:28:02 PM by WilliamPowell »
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Offline RedanTiger

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Re: Tigers Record $2,846,065 Profit for 2010
« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2010, 12:51:56 PM »

The land is owned by the MElb City Council who lease to the the Richmond Cricket Club who sub lease it the RFC. My understanding is the lease between the Council, Cricket Club & the Footy Club run con-currently until 2022 or somewhere around there.

With the statements about the Cricket Club moving from Punt Road Oval it will be interesting how this plays out.
Would think that the lease would be re-negotiated to be between the Council and the footy club.

Hope the club are across all the details since it has the potential to get messy ie prime location, redeveloped, other prospective tenants/users.



Edited to correct quote
« Last Edit: November 25, 2010, 08:27:40 PM by WilliamPowell »

Offline WilliamPowell

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Re: Tigers Record $2,846,065 Profit for 2010
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2010, 08:28:54 PM »

The land is owned by the MElb City Council who lease to the the Richmond Cricket Club who sub lease it the RFC. My understanding is the lease between the Council, Cricket Club & the Footy Club run con-currently until 2022 or somewhere around there.

With the statements about the Cricket Club moving from Punt Road Oval it will be interesting how this plays out.
Would think that the lease would be re-negotiated to be between the Council and the footy club.

Hope the club are across all the details since it has the potential to get messy ie prime location, redeveloped, other prospective tenants/users.



Edited to correct quote

Becomes a mute point IMHO the RFC owns 51% of the Richmond Cricket Club, therefore indirectly controls the lease
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Offline mightytiges

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Re: Tigers Record $2,846,065 Profit for 2010
« Reply #22 on: November 26, 2010, 12:29:39 AM »
Well done all involved at the RFC  :clapping. A great result given we were 0-9 and compared to Fitzroy.

The Cash Flow clearly shows that from normal opertaing (trading) activities we have generated an increase in our cash levels by nearly $600k
WP, did that figure include the $800k we received for the improved stadium deal with the MCG (ie. 8 home games x $100k) ? IIRC the deal was signed for the 2009 season onwards but wasn't signed off by the Government until after Oct 31 last year and so that extra money from the 2009 season was to be included in the 2010 budget along with the $800k from the 2010 season. I'm asking as that first $800k (from the 2009 season) is a one-off. Also does it say in the full financials that that one-off payment was in part used to reduce our debt by $500k?
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Offline WilliamPowell

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Re: Tigers Record $2,846,065 Profit for 2010
« Reply #23 on: November 26, 2010, 07:11:00 AM »
WP, did that figure include the $800k we received for the improved stadium deal with the MCG (ie. 8 home games x $100k) ? IIRC the deal was signed for the 2009 season onwards but wasn't signed off by the Government until after Oct 31 last year and so that extra money from the 2009 season was to be included in the 2010 budget along with the $800k from the 2010 season. I'm asking as that first $800k (from the 2009 season) is a one-off. Also does it say in the full financials that that one-off payment was in part used to reduce our debt by $500k?

RE: 800K - I would assume it did MT - the reports don't say. It would be included in one of the categories listed in the Cash flow "receipts from footy operations"

I have finished reading the full financials yet its 31 pages - will finish it over the weekend.

From what I've read so far no it doesn't say what the one off payment was used for, nor should it. It's just like the monies received in the past regarding the sale of Waverley - we don't know what that went to. 
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Offline mightytiges

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Re: Tigers Record $2,846,065 Profit for 2010
« Reply #24 on: November 27, 2010, 08:25:42 PM »
WP, did that figure include the $800k we received for the improved stadium deal with the MCG (ie. 8 home games x $100k) ? IIRC the deal was signed for the 2009 season onwards but wasn't signed off by the Government until after Oct 31 last year and so that extra money from the 2009 season was to be included in the 2010 budget along with the $800k from the 2010 season. I'm asking as that first $800k (from the 2009 season) is a one-off. Also does it say in the full financials that that one-off payment was in part used to reduce our debt by $500k?

RE: 800K - I would assume it did MT - the reports don't say. It would be included in one of the categories listed in the Cash flow "receipts from footy operations"

I have finished reading the full financials yet its 31 pages - will finish it over the weekend.

From what I've read so far no it doesn't say what the one off payment was used for, nor should it. It's just like the monies received in the past regarding the sale of Waverley - we don't know what that went to. 
Ta WP.

The only problem I have with the $800k included in the normal operational monies is because it is a one-off anomoly and so it isn't income we can rely on going forth (even though legally it doesn't have to be separated). Compare that to the grant money which is given as a separated figure from the operational revenue figure. Take off next year $800k plus another $300k from the Royal Oak moving out of our hands and that's on paper 1.1 million quid off this year's total revenue :-\.
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Offline WilliamPowell

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Re: Tigers Record $2,846,065 Profit for 2010
« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2010, 07:02:01 PM »
The only problem I have with the $800k included in the normal operational monies is because it is a one-off anomoly and so it isn't income we can rely on going forth (even though legally it doesn't have to be separated). Compare that to the grant money which is given as a separated figure from the operational revenue figure. Take off next year $800k plus another $300k from the Royal Oak moving out of our hands and that's on paper 1.1 million quid off this year's total revenue :-\.

True MT but factor in the $1 to $1.1 million they are going to get from the Darwin & Cairns games that wasn't there this year and you've squared it away - you start even once more  :thumbsup

PS: sorry for the delay we've had no internet at home since lunch time yesterday - bloody Telstra Bigpond  :banghead
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Offline bojangles17

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Re: Tigers Record $2,846,065 Profit for 2010
« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2010, 07:19:14 PM »
additional stadium monies isnt ONE off. it's an increased rate ea year from now on ::)
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Offline WilliamPowell

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Re: Tigers Record $2,846,065 Profit for 2010
« Reply #27 on: November 28, 2010, 09:20:47 PM »
additional stadium monies isnt ONE off. it's an increased rate ea year from now on ::)

Correct bj17 but what MT was talking about was the fact we got 2 years worth of the new stadium deal money in 2010 (2009 & 2010).

So although we keeping receiving it we will get less next year compared to what we received from it this year
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Offline TigerTimTam

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Re: Tigers Record $2,846,065 Profit for 2010
« Reply #28 on: November 29, 2010, 10:03:08 AM »
PS: sorry for the delay we've had no internet at home since lunch time yesterday - bloody Telstra Bigpond  :banghead

Sorry to hear this. Thankyou for your time. I think thanks to you I have a better understanding of what is happening.

Offline mightytiges

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Re: Tigers Record $2,846,065 Profit for 2010
« Reply #29 on: November 29, 2010, 12:47:49 PM »
additional stadium monies isnt ONE off. it's an increased rate ea year from now on ::)

Correct bj17 but what MT was talking about was the fact we got 2 years worth of the new stadium deal money in 2010 (2009 & 2010).

So although we keeping receiving it we will get less next year compared to what we received from it this year
Precisely WP  :thumbsup

The only problem I have with the $800k included in the normal operational monies is because it is a one-off anomoly and so it isn't income we can rely on going forth (even though legally it doesn't have to be separated). Compare that to the grant money which is given as a separated figure from the operational revenue figure. Take off next year $800k plus another $300k from the Royal Oak moving out of our hands and that's on paper 1.1 million quid off this year's total revenue :-\.

True MT but factor in the $1 to $1.1 million they are going to get from the Darwin & Cairns games that wasn't there this year and you've squared it away - you start even once more  :thumbsup

PS: sorry for the delay we've had no internet at home since lunch time yesterday - bloody Telstra Bigpond  :banghead
Ta WP. I forgot for the moment about the monies from the two interstate 'home' games. Although this means we are at least in the short-term reliant on playing home games interstate as a source of income to maintain our current total revenue levels rather than it being 'extra' cash  :-\. The job now for the Board is to build up our revenue base so in the long-term we aren't reliant on these games and we can play almost all of our home games at the 'G. If we can wipe out our debt owing in the next 12 months as planned then that'll save roughly $300k or so in no longer having to make repayments. The idea of a Future Fund is obviously part of increasing our revenue base as well.
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