One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: one-eyed on February 14, 2011, 02:23:15 AM
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Tigers to endanger Coburg's survival
Brent Diamond
February 14, 2011
RICHMOND'S intentions of fielding a stand-alone team in the VFL has its VFL affiliate, the Coburg Tigers, fearing for their future according to the club's hierarchy.
A former Coburg player and coach, VFL pundit Phil Cleary, is backed by Coburg president Bill Balakis in saying that the club wouldn't survive financially if Richmond split its alignment to stand alone in the VFL - which could happen as soon as next season.
Richmond coach Damien Hardwick said last week - after announcing the club's Fighting Tiger Fund, which aims to raise $6 million and clear the club's debt - that one of his priorities would be to look at the successful Collingwood model and introduce a stand-alone VFL team into the competition.
He wants a further say on the positioning of some of his young and developing players within the team.
''I've met Damien Hardwick. I like him. But he's not Coburg,'' Cleary said. ''Coburg doesn't matter to him. The Coburg history that I am a part of doesn't matter to him.''
Coburg's two-year contract with Richmond ends at the end of this season. Several other VFL clubs also fear that their AFL partners will dump them to follow the likes of Geelong and Collingwood in forming stand-alone VFL teams in what could again become a fully fledged AFL reserves competition.
Some fear that the replacement of the AFL Victoria board with key AFL personnel - headed by former Essendon chief Peter Jackson who is the new AFL Victoria chief executive - means that these key figures won't put a limit on how many AFL clubs can enter the VFL from 2012 as stand-alone.
''Everyone knows Coburg couldn't survive in the VFL, there's no income stream,'' Cleary said. ''The Coburg Football Club has never had the kind of revenue stream to be flush with funds. It's never had gambling. It's astounding that the most powerful VFL clubs are now those with gaming venues.
''Think about what kind of society it is that the only community clubs that can exist in the VFL are those with gaming revenue such as North Ballarat, Port Melbourne and Williamstown.''
Cleary said Coburg's only hope of survival would be to enter a local league such as the Essendon District Football League or re-establish the VFA competition.
Balakis, who has been president of Coburg for three years, admits it would be an uphill battle to retain the club in the VFL if a split with Richmond eventuated. ''I think probably not at this point of time and that's completely honest, too,'' he said.
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/tigers-to-endanger-coburgs-survival-20110213-1as0z.html
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It would be a shame to see old clubs like coburg fold, but the guilt trip shouldn't be put onto Richmond over it.
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It would be a shame to see old clubs like coburg fold, but the guilt trip shouldn't be put onto Richmond over it.
Exactly! They would of been dead by now if not for us anyway.
From what I can tell I see more supporters at local league level than 'True' Coburg supporters at their games.
Let's be honest, they have ridden on our coat tails without trying to help themselves in any other way, sad for them. Things change and a reserves team for us if we get this debt wiped is crucial for our competitive survival.
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Richmond need a reserves side.
The like of helbig. Contin etc. Should be first choice midfielders. Not 25-28 yoa vfl players who have no future at RFC
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The sooner coburg go under the better as it will mean we have a stand alone VFL side.
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Why do coburg have to go under for richmond to field their own reserves team?
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Yeah, don't want to see any club fold, especially one with a rich history like Coburg. But if we can afford a standalone team then that is obviously our preferred choice. Having said that, we are lucky in our current relationship with them - I think we get more 'say' on how our kids are played than some other clubs do and I think a large part of that is because they are so reliant on us for their financial survival.
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Why do coburg have to go under for richmond to field their own reserves team?
No $$$$$ and stuff all supporters.
''Everyone knows Coburg couldn't survive in the VFL, there's no income stream,'' Cleary said. ''The Coburg Football Club has never had the kind of revenue stream to be flush with funds. It's never had gambling. It's astounding that the most powerful VFL clubs are now those with gaming venues.
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Richmond.
Damned if we do.
Damned if we don't yet a bloody gain.
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Why do coburg have to go under for richmond to field their own reserves team?
No $$$$$ and stuff all supporters.
''Everyone knows Coburg couldn't survive in the VFL, there's no income stream,'' Cleary said. ''The Coburg Football Club has never had the kind of revenue stream to be flush with funds. It's never had gambling. It's astounding that the most powerful VFL clubs are now those with gaming venues.
still doesnt explain why they need to go under for us to field a stand alone team. Us fielding a stand alone team is not reliant on coburg folding.
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Why do coburg have to go under for richmond to field their own reserves team?
No $$$$$ and stuff all supporters.
''Everyone knows Coburg couldn't survive in the VFL, there's no income stream,'' Cleary said. ''The Coburg Football Club has never had the kind of revenue stream to be flush with funds. It's never had gambling. It's astounding that the most powerful VFL clubs are now those with gaming venues.
OK, crossed wires. They don't need to go under but will when we leave.
still doesnt explain why they need to go under for us to field a stand alone team. Us fielding a stand alone team is not reliant on coburg folding.
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ah the afl. what a disease it is.
while raking in hundreds of millions local footy clubs and leagues have to scrap for miserly hand outs to survive.
there are so many strong comps and clubs that barely exist any more.
the afl and by being an integral part of the afl the rfc and all other afl clubs have an obligation to ensure these clubs survive.
we dont mind say bull creek leeming producing a shedload of afl players but come time to compensate them they see nothing.
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'We will survive'- Balakis
* Sam Landsberger
* From: Leader
* February 24, 2011 2:50PM
THE Coburg Football Club is steadfast that it can stand its own two feet should its alliance with Richmond eventually cease.
"We will survive," president Bill Balakis said.
"I think given the support we have and the sponsorship we have, we know it'll be a tough gig, but we will survive.
"I don't know what the long-term vision is of the AFL but I do think if we as a football club were to stand alone we would endeavour to survive. The history of the club has been up and down but I have no doubt in my mind it will survive."
Richmond coach Damien Hardwick inadvertently poured oil on the fire when he revealed to the media the AFL Tigers planned to ditch their alignment with Coburg and field a stand-alone side in the VFL.
AFL clubs can sever alignments at the end of the 2011 season and Richmond, which wants to raise $6 million from its fans in search of an 11th premiership, is the first to publicly declare it wants out.
Powerhouses Collingwood and Geelong, the past two AFL premiers, both field stand-alone clubs in the VFL, which gives them total control over player and team development.
If Richmond and Coburg split it would place an enormous financial strain on the VFL club. But Balakis said the club was on the rise and had the backing of new AFL Victoria chairman Peter Jackson, who has announced a strategic plan for 2012-14 will be developed to add financial stability to the VFL.
"Compared to where Coburg was five years ago when it owed a lot of people a lot of money we've turned that around to now actually be making money," he said.
He said the club would consider all options when Richmond ditched the affiliation, but pointed out that was not across the line yet. "I don't know when they're going to go, what if they don't pick up their $6 million?
"I've spoken with Richmond president (Gary March) and he's not quite sure when that could be."
Balakis admitted he was "very much surprised" at Hardwick's comments that Richmond wanted out of the partnership.
"I was definitely taking aback ... but the affiliation is pretty good, the comments won't affect the alignment (this year)."
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/we-will-survive-balakis/story-fn53khop-1226011421810
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Hard to see Coburg "making money" without Richmond supporters forming the bulk of their home crowds.
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I can't find the audio but Gary March was on SEN yesterday and he said a stand alone reserves side is still possibly 2-3-4 years away.
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The issue is getting a VFL license isn't it? Cause I reckon we'll have the coin by year's end. 2-3-4 years away is too long.
Collingwood, Geelong, Brisbane, Sydney, Gold Coast & GWS plus looking likely Fremantle and West Coast next year – we'll be chasing the pack again before we know it.
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I can't find the audio but Gary March was on SEN yesterday and he said a stand alone reserves side is still possibly 2-3-4 years away.
Yeah, heard that on SEN last night too.
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I can't find the audio but Gary March was on SEN yesterday and he said a stand alone reserves side is still possibly 2-3-4 years away.
Yeah, heard that on SEN last night too.
How would you feel about a national reseves comp playing curtain raisers? Bankrolled by the AFL of course. I would turn up early to watch
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caught that discussion too and agree that is the way to go.
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How would you feel about a national reseves comp playing curtain raisers? Bankrolled by the AFL of course. I would turn up early to watch
I'd turn up to watch but i'd prefer the AFL to stay out of it and fund our own reserves side and put some distance between us and those that can't afford it. Be nice to have an advantage over other clubs for as long as possible before the AFL steps in and starts bankrolling a new comp.
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i'm not convinced a VFL side is a pre req for winning a flag...heck the saints have been right up there as have the dogs, hawks won a flag with Box hill alignment, the interstate teams dont have a single ressies side with exception of bris and syd...I could think of better uses of our $$$$$ as in a more formidable recruiting netwrork and player development academy
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no, not necesarily a pre req., but it can only help to have full control over the development of the young players
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7 of the last 10 flags have been won by a side with standalone reserves
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The issue is getting a VFL license isn't it? Cause I reckon we'll have the coin by year's end. 2-3-4 years away is too long.
yep VFL lincenses are issued by AFL Victoria - so we need to get a license
I reckon getting is a given but I'd be surprsied if it can all happen by 2012. I mean Punt Road Oval is going to be re-configured after the 2011 season, will it be ready to host games remembering the standard requirements for the palying surface would be different for hosting games compared to what's acceptable for training... but then agan there is always Craigieburn :outtahere ;D
Perhaps 2013 is more realistic target
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The afl should have not scrapped the reserves league.
Sly dogs
I can't find the audio but Gary March was on SEN yesterday and he said a stand alone reserves side is still possibly 2-3-4 years away.
Yeah, heard that on SEN last night too.
How would you feel about a national reseves comp playing curtain raisers? Bankrolled by the AFL of course. I would turn up early to watch
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I'll give people a quick in-site to the year i was involved at Coburg. (even if it was only for a little while) It was Jade's first year as coach. His assistance's were a couple of local EFL footballers (both great fellas) and the coach of the Coburg twos (who is now coaching the Coburg seniors) is a school teacher and his assistance's were his mates and more local footballers. Don't get me wrong about local footballers, they all want to help, and that's great BUT most of them don't really know what it takes to be an AFL footballer and all that goes with it.
So my question to you all is, do we want them coaching and DEVOLOPING our kids that don't play in our seniors?
We need a stand alone team asap!!!!!
If we ever want to win another flag we need full time, professional coaches coaching our kids full time. Our young draftees need to be playing together week in week out, learning how our game plan works. Anything else is just a short cut and done for convenience (Coburg)
That same year Geelong and Collingwood had stand alone sides with full time coaches (Collingwood had Gavin Brown and Geelong had Leigh Tudor i think) learning game plans and learning how each other play the game, and both made the finals and have ever since.
Who knows, maybe if we had of had the same resources as some other clubs over those years, some of our young draftees may have made it????
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The issue is getting a VFL license isn't it? Cause I reckon we'll have the coin by year's end. 2-3-4 years away is too long.
Collingwood, Geelong, Brisbane, Sydney, Gold Coast & GWS plus looking likely Fremantle and West Coast next year – we'll be chasing the pack again before we know it.
syd bris and now gc gws do it out of need.
imo if enough clubs go down this path we should have a national reserves comp. with compensation to interstate clubs who have to travel every second week. pretty costly to fly a reserves side around the country every second week.
perhaps the afl can have an air line sponsor the travel costs for all clubs.
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National Reserves comp should be funded by the AFL, not the clubs
Firstly, the AFL are not skint, plus the reserves will most likely draw better crowds than they get at current VFL, QAFL, AFL NSW/ACT matches
If they were smart they would even rotate the interstate home games vs the senior side. For example on a weekend when Sydney is playing away, they can schedule the Sydney reserves to play at home against some other side. There would be far more Swans supports who love their footy wanting to see a match live that weekend than those who go to a match in the local competition.
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But why would you support giving sides that can't afford a standalone side a leg up? I don't want Richmond to be on a level playing field with Carlton & Essendon, I want to be above them. If a club can't afford a standalone VFL side, stiff sh¡t, work with an alignment.
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I have no problem in creating an equal playing field in that area, especially when we are currently not getting those benefits and won't be for a couple of years.
If we don't have to pay for it ourselves then its money we can reinvest into other areas. It's not like we'd be wasting money, in fact if the AFL brought in this system then it would mean we wouldn't need to buy a VFL license. That could be some extra recruiters, or a high altitude training room.
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Then you are soft.
The AFL levels the field enough as it is. What next? Capping football department spending because we currently can't afford to spend as much as Collingwood?
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No, this is only one aspect that I think will improve AFL football as a whole.
I don't know why they got rid of the AFL reserves in the first place
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AFL clubs keen to develop their own talent
Sam Landsberger
From: Herald Sun
April 10, 2011 8:53PM
SECOND-tier football is set for its biggest shakeup in more than a decade with five AFL clubs believed to want out of VFL alignments.
All Victorian clubs are affiliated with a VFL team, except Geelong and Collingwood, which field stand-alone teams and have total control over player and team development.
A highly placed AFL club official told the Herald Sun the Cats and Pies, who have won three of the past four AFL premierships, hold a "significant competitive advantage".
He added there was a correlation between the second-tier formula and AFL success.
Both incur licence fees and staffing costs of about $250,000, but that sum was described as "not gigantic" in December by Grant O'Riley, who was AFL Victoria chairman at the time.
"AFL clubs have had enough of the current system and AFL Victoria acknowledge that, but they've got other issues to deal with," the club official, who did not want to be named for fear of damaging his club's alignment, said.
"VFL coaches aren't thinking what's best for these kids' development. They're trying to kick enough goals to win games, which goes against all the principles of development.
"Consistency of message, playing at quality venues and not having winning as your major criteria is critical to the development of young talent.
"I think in 10 years we'll look back and think, 'How did we recruit players and send them off to another club to play under different coaches?'."
Richmond coach Damien Hardwick stated pre-season he wants to break away from VFL partner Coburg once the Tigers clear their debt.
Melbourne, angered by affiliate Casey's decision to recruit Brendan Fevola, is also a strong chance to go alone.
Western Bulldogs wants its own reserves side and could play out of an upgraded Whitten Oval, while St Kilda's relationship with Sandringham continues to suffer problems.
The Saints could utilise Moorabbin's Linton St oval for reserves matches.
But Zebras general manager John Mennie said it would be a blow to lose their affiliation.
"I think all AFL clubs would stand alone in a perfect world, but I know it's not the model AFL Victoria is looking for, so we're very hopeful St Kilda will stick with us," he said.
Essendon, Carlton and Hawthorn all have strong control over their VFL affiliates and could stick with the same format.
Fremantle and West Coast joined forces last month to push for their own WAFL reserves sides as early as next season.
Brisbane Lions, Gold Coast and Sydney all have reserves sides in the newly created NEAFL, as will GWS when it enters the AFL next year.
VFL operations manager John Hook wants the VFL alignments to continue.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/afl-clubs-keen-to-develop-their-own-talent-without-a/story-e6frf9jf-1226036866240
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AFL reserve side 'essential': Malthouse
By Tim Clarke
SportsNewsFirst
3 June 2011 02:00PM EST
Malthouse said having your own reserve side was almost an essential for any AFL club.
"There's no comparison. You've got full control, we have our own coach [Tarkyn Lockyer], he's a former player here, he knows our methodologies, he sits in on our match committee, makes recommendations," Malthouse said.
"We train as we want to play and they wear the jumper so the boys who come here, the 12 we picked last year, there's every probability four or five of them may not have worn a Collingwood jumper had we stayed out of our stand alone.”
http://www.sportsnewsfirst.com.au/articles/2011/06/03/afl-reserve-side-essential-malthouse/
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Then you are soft.
The AFL levels the field enough as it is. What next? Capping football department spending because we currently can't afford to spend as much as Collingwood?
:thumbsup There must still be incentives for financially successful clubs to be able to use that to their advantage.
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Results like earlier today where Coburg is uncompetitive you would think will further hasten the push to get our own VFL side a.s.a.p. once the FTF dollars are raised. If our ressies are going to be thrashed then it pushes the case harder to have a team where all RFC players are playing at VFL senior level and use the VFL side simply as a development team as the Pies and Cats are doing.
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Indeed
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Then you are soft.
The AFL levels the field enough as it is. What next? Capping football department spending because we currently can't afford to spend as much as Collingwood?
No, but I think that there should be a minimum amount that has to be spent on the football department. If you can't spend that much, the AFL should step in and provide it.
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From the RFC site...
Gale also paid tribute to the magnificent support of the Richmond fans, and outlined the Club’s plans regarding a stand-alone VFL team.
“We anticipate making some other exciting announcements about our football program in the near future - all made possible thanks to our fans,” he said. “Our wish-list also included the establishment of a stand-alone reserves’ side. We will not be in a position to realise that ambition in 2012, given the level of funding it would require.
“The second-tier competition is also currently under review and the Club feels it is prudent to await the outcome of that process before considering what model is the most effective to invest in moving forward.
“In the meantime, we will continue to work with Coburg to develop a partnership that will provide us with as many of the benefits of a stand-alone side as possible.”
http://www.richmondfc.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/6301/newsid/120092/default.aspx