One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: one-eyed on November 08, 2011, 09:47:42 AM
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Batchelor commits to Tigers
richmondfc.com.au
By Tony Greenberg
Tue 08 Nov, 2011
Promising young Richmond defender, Jake Batchelor, has been rewarded for his impressive debut season at Tigerland in 2011 with a contract extension.
Batchelor, who made 16 senior appearances, and averaged 12.6 disposals per game, has signed a new deal, binding him to the Club at least until the end of the 2013 season.
Read full article at: http://www.richmondfc.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/6301/newsid/125893/default.aspx
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Very good decision
Will be a very good player
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Surely not the work of CC !!!
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Surely not the work of CC !!!
It is a good decision, so no...it couldn't possibly be Craig Cameron at work here ;D
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Really really rate Batch.
Well done RFC.
So who is left needing a contract extension away from GWS? Lids? Thats it?
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Jackovichesque type could easily turn into
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With BAtch and Houli holding down the running defender roles, perhaps Lids will be free to move into the midfield next year?
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More great news to come out of the club. Well done Craig Cameron.
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Very good on Batchelor, however I'm not convinced that Deledio will be with us after next season, I can just sense a few little warning bells.
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Very good on Batchelor, however I'm not convinced that Deledio will be with us after next season, I can just sense a few little warning bells.
Funny RodgerRJ because I am very confident Lids will be with us long term
I dont' know anything it's just a feeling I've got just like you're sensing the other way ;D
Even with the advent of Free Agency we still hold all the aces with Lids as the Club can keep him if they match any FA offer he receives. You'd expect the Club to do that within reason, hence one of the reasons I am not concerned
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Very good on Batchelor, however I'm not convinced that Deledio will be with us after next season, I can just sense a few little warning bells.
Funny RodgerRJ because I am very confident Lids will be with us long term
I dont' know anything it's just a feeling I've got just like you're sensing the other way ;D
Even with the advent of Free Agency we still hold all the aces with Lids as the Club can keep him if they match any FA offer he receives. You'd expect the Club to do that within reason, hence one of the reasons I am not concerned
Agreed.
Cant see him going anywhere, especially if the club's chasing are where we are coming from (rebuilding).
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This decision just reeks of craig cameron.
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This decision just reeks of craig cameron.
he's still poohouse in all honesty
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:lol
If you can tell me what his role entails and what parts he does poorly then you may convince me.
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Dave Gourdis, Dan Connors, Matt White, Jake King, McGuane etc are a few of his contract specials. He's General Manager of football and List Manager isnt he ;D you'd think he could make better decisions on player contracts. And no, it's not all him but he signs off on it at least. listen to the bloke talk and look at his hair. he's poo :lol
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:lol
If you can tell me what his role entails and what parts he does poorly then you may convince me.
4 years at the club, list man agent kpi for him. How does the list look?
Okay but plenty of holes still.
How long to give a guy before he actually becomes accountable?
Took Chris Pelchen 4 years to make us a premier.
This is too Richmond, accept a mediocre result, make excuses be a sympathizer
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Highlights of the best of Batchelor:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_profilepage&v=Sw9yiT6V8rk
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On ya Batch :thumbsup. Another out of GWS' reach.
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:lol
If you can tell me what his role entails and what parts he does poorly then you may convince me.
4 years at the club, list man agent kpi for him. How does the list look?
Okay but plenty of holes still.
How long to give a guy before he actually becomes accountable?
Took Chris Pelchen 4 years to make us a premier.
This is too Richmond, accept a mediocre result, make excuses be a sympathizer
Where did i make an excuse for him?
He doesnt set policy.
He doesnt make decisions on his own, he is part of a group of decision makers.
Yet he gets blamed for any poor decision as if he does?
As i said, if you can give details of what his role actually entails and which of these areas he is poor in, i may take these critisims seriously.
Otherwise it reeks of him filling the need of a scapegoat for people to take their frustrations out on for past years of pain.
What do mean "Took Chris Pelchen 4 years to make us a premier."?
Yellowandbrown?
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And BTW I think you will find that Cameron isn't "list manager", that role falls under the CV of Blair Hartley. ;D
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Highlights of the best of Batchelor:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_profilepage&v=Sw9yiT6V8rk
Got to love how in the most of those highlights Batch is excuting the perfect tackle which sees his opponent drop the ball yet the ump is in the background waving his arms signalling play on :scream :wallywink :whistle.
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As head of our football dept. I'd guess a number of supporters see the buck stops with Cameron.
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I'm sure they do MT, but i wonder if they would be happy to be the one to carry the can for decisions that are actually made by a group of people?
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I'm sure they do MT, but i wonder if they would be happy to be the one to carry the can for decisions that are actually made by a group of people?
I guess the reality is al it comes with the territory in footy whether rightly or wrongly. Same goes for the senior coach whose whole career depends on his group of players and how they perform. Even looking outside of footy the CEO of a sharelisted company carries the can for mistakes and poor returns (unless you're running Qantas lol :shh ). The buck normally stops at the top as it's his/her job to hire the best and right people underneath him to the maximum benefit of whatever organisation they are in charge of. I have no idea how much Cameron is getting paid but I'm guessing it would be safe to presume he'd be earning more than the bootstudder lol and most within the footy dept. Greater responsibility has its price.
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true MT, but CEO of a company is pretty much at the top of the tree while cameron has a few people higher than him for the buck to stop at, in fact our own CEO is one of them
The machinations within a footy club would also be different to a publicly listed company too, I reckon.
...It doesnt seem to work the same way with the popular decisions made by the footy dept either.
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true MT, but CEO of a company is pretty much at the top of the tree while cameron has a few people higher than him for the buck to stop at, in fact our own CEO is one of them
The machinations within a footy club would also be different to a publicly listed company too, I reckon.
...It doesnt seem to work the same way with the popular decisions made by the footy dept either.
He is head of Football Al.
What do you think he is accountable for? Making sure there are plenty of sports drinks in the gym?
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Good decision with regrads to signing Batch up
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true MT, but CEO of a company is pretty much at the top of the tree while cameron has a few people higher than him for the buck to stop at, in fact our own CEO is one of them
The machinations within a footy club would also be different to a publicly listed company too, I reckon.
...It doesnt seem to work the same way with the popular decisions made by the footy dept either.
He is head of Football Al.
What do you think he is accountable for? Making sure there are plenty of sports drinks in the gym?
so seems you don't seem to be able to say what you believe head of football actually does, I'll give you a couple of choices.
1: sits in his office and make all executive desicions regarding the football dept then ensure that his minions follow out his orders.
Or
2: is actually a co-ordinator, making sure that each area of the football dept recieves their share of allocated resourses to do their job properly. Ensuring that they communicate with each other and work effectively side by side. That important information is shared by relevant depts.
To collate and report information provided by each area and probably even then write reports which are then presented to the board/ceo on how the how the football dept is travelling.
To ensure that everyone is on the same wavelength and working together, to an agenda set by a commitee, of which he is only part of, not by him. The crucial dept appointments, eg coaching staff, recruiting officers are also appointed by a commitee. he may have power to hire and fire those further down the pecking order or he can make recomendations on these staff that may carry a lot of weight, but in most appointments that can have a serious impact on the outcome of football operations his voice is just one of a number.
Personally my view has been that the second option is closer to the mark, which MT pretty much confirmed after a fan night.
As for roles within the footy department - Cameron is the general manager of football so his role is to manage all the various arms of the footy dept - coaches, recruiting, list management, rehab, strength and conditioning. I think they were the 5 areas. The rehab and strength and conditioning areas have been split between two people and Matt Hornsby oversees both areas. The list management committee is made up of Cameron, Jackson, Hartley, Hardwick, Gale and Stahl (to keep an eye on finances). Dimma has a fair bit of input in trades but very little in draft selections. Cameron said they are organising the finances for the next year at the moment.
http://oneeyed-richmond.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=256437;topic=13949.45;last_msg=256792
So what it boils down to, is that every unpopular list management decision gets blamed on Cameron, even though, unless we have some insight to the everyday runnings of the club, most of us wouldn't know if Cameron was performing his role properly or not (some don't seem to even have an inkling or what his role actually is), and that these decisions are actually at the feet of Cameron, Jackson, Hartley, Hardwick, Stahl and Gale.
On the other hand the popular decisions are credited to the football club, not to Cameron himself
So not only is much of the criticism based on ignorance, there is an obvious double standard applied.
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As GM of the football dept CC has 65 to 80 employees. A huge chunk of his job is just the normal mgmt roles of payroll, HR etc.
Given the direction set with respect of recruiting, list catergorisation (the point scoring of skills etc), coaching (as the Footy GM he is responsible for hiring Dimma) I think he's doing a good job.
So on one or two negotiations (facing very good agents negotiating on behalf of their clients) and with the standard clauses in the AFLPA contracts that guarantee extensions based on games played (and yes that is a pretty standard clause that all agents will insist on) he may have erred, at least according to some external observers with no knowledge of exactly what occurred and how said player was rated by the coaches/list manager.
Apart from that he and Blair are getting the list structure right. Yeah there are gaps but you can probably only close one gap a year and they are steadily working to that. If one or more of Helbig, Dea, McDonald or Derickx comes on, then the categorisation of players and ranking of skills and approach given to FJ should be deemed as a success as well. That shows management acumen and appropriate delegation of jobs. That's what I want from my manager, why should this be different. Use people appropriate to their skills. Monitor, manage, communicate and set the appropriate KPI's to do so. And keep the noise (HR, payroll, interviews, negotiations, budgets, etc) out of the way of the executors of the agreed strategy.
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Interesting Al that you downgraded the General Manager of Football to a "co-ordinator" and thus is not to blame for anything.
As THE senior manager of football his role is to set and maintain the plan for improvement in football.
As a manager he has to ensure that all departments are performing at their best (to the plan) and take actions if they are not.
Look at some sections:
Fitness - underwhelming over years but no changes (addition of weights coach in 2009 excepted).
Medical - players continued to play with career threatening injuries. (pressure from coach?)
Welfare - players absent from the club without leave, then delisted.
Coaching - promised extra development coaches but have lost two. Is there a new structure with Smith and Williams?
Leadership - Bond in 2009, then Leading Teams, now another change.
Budget - Why are we wasting resources in going to Arizona when Bulldogs have spent their money on equipment (cryosauna, altitude room).
While WP has said Hartley is List Manager I have seen nothing official beyond my feeling he's getting more input beyond his List Analyst role.
To claim Cameron is only a member of the List Committee is to ignore he is the final decision maker.
In fact, in the period in 2009 when Hardwick was first appointed, he and Campbell made the list decisions.
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I never said he is not to blame for anything.
Why is a co-ordinater a downgrade. The higher up you get in that food chain, the more you have organise, or co-ordinate. What do you think a general manager does? The first option i gave in that earlier post?
Well I suppose though, that considering he is the man solely responsible for all those things going wrong and not following the plan, then should not the buck stop with those that he answers to, the board and the CEO.
I mean, really if he is so derelict in his duty then surely those higher up should see it and sack him.
the fact that they don't can only mean that they are also derect in their duty.
I never realised he had veto power either. Thats what you mean by final decision maker isnt it? that if the rest of the list management committee agree to a decision he doesnt like, he can override it?
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Whatever Cameron's job is he is poohouse at it.
I shudder whenever he speaks publically.
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(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT4SzvCiepYDKqMlt_EUUvCZCsElv2b1RsurHRl2FEyESCD_4iM&t=1)
BEAST
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What do you think a general manager does?
FYI I quote the following from Wikipedia:
"Management comprises planning, organizing, staffing, leading or directing, and controlling an organization (a group of one or more people or entities) or effort for the purpose of accomplishing a goal."
and
"Basic functions
Management operates through various functions, often classified as planning, organizing, staffing, leading/directing, controlling/monitoring and motivation.
- Planning: Deciding what needs to happen in the future (today, next week, next month, next year, over the next five years, etc.) and generating plans for action.
- Organizing: (Implementation)pattern of relationships among workers, making optimum use of the resources required to enable the successful carrying out of plans.
- Staffing: Job analysis, recruitment and hiring for appropriate jobs.
- Leading/directing: Determining what needs to be done in a situation and getting people to do it.
- Controlling/monitoring: Checking progress against plans.
- Motivation: Motivation is also a kind of basic function of management, because without motivation, employees cannot work effectively. If motivation does not take place in an organization, then employees may not contribute to the other functions (which are usually set by top-level management)."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Management
Well I suppose though, that considering he is the man solely responsible for all those things going wrong and not following the plan, then should not the buck stop with those that he answers to, the board and the CEO. There you go again. As the most senior football manager he bears not sole but final responsibility for results, good and bad. If things go wrong in any section (eg Recruiting, Fitness, Welfare etc) it is his job to fix it so they don't recur.
I mean, really if he is so derelict in his duty then surely those higher up should see it and sack him.
the fact that they don't can only mean that they are also derect in their duty.
I never realised he had veto power either. Thats what you mean by final decision maker isnt it? that if the rest of the list management committee agree to a decision he doesnt like, he can override it?
Cameron was hired by Miller on a five year contract as List Manager. When Miller left (or was pushed) as GM of Football the Board looked around for a replacement and finally Cameron took over that job as well, still on a five year deal. IMO the Board was derelict in his appointment under those terms.
There can be many reasons why a person keeps a job he is unable to competently perform. In the Richmond case I think it is because he provides cover for the board (March) and is a patsy when things go wrong in their duties. It is ironic that a board decision to replace a senior manager is more dangerous for them than keeping a failing one because then it is their heads directly on the chopping block for the success of the move.
Does he have veto power as the "final decision maker"? I'd say yes, ignoring any CEO or board override.
If you then believe a competent manager would implement any decision in the face of unanimous opposition of his staff then you really don't understand anything about management. Please take note of "Motivation" in the above Wikipedia post.
As another example of Cameron's work look at the Wallace resignation debacle.
Newman and King approached Wallace with complaints from the playing group, Wallace clains they told him to resign, it reached the press almost immediately and there was a crisis that required the President to hold a meeting with the entire list to resolve the issue while Cameron held his coat. Presumably March also had meetings with Wallace in which Cameron would have held no power since Wallace, like all senior coaches, is hired and fired by the board (not by the Footy GM as stated before).
Two points:
What the hell was Cameron doing as regards communication with key personnel (Former Captain, Captain and Young Player Leader) that this issue ever reached this degree of conflict?
How much trust do you think Newman and King have in Cameron (or March) after they were hung out to dry after that crisis? And their motivation?
Getting back to the thread topic I'm glad Batchelor was signed.
Now what's happening about Campbell's contract and the new development coaches - you kbnow the difficult stuff.
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The strange thing is reading much of this we actually seem to be on the same wavelength.
If you then believe a competent manager would implement any decision in the face of unanimous opposition of his staff then you really don't understand anything about management.
This pretty much sums up the point I'm trying to make, that the decisions that the manager of football often gets blamed for, in particular list management decisions are made by 5 people, not 1.
if people don't like the decision, there are 5 people to blame for it;
if people do like the decision, there are 5 people to praise; not just the general manager.
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The strange thing is reading much of this we actually seem to be on the same wavelength.
If you then believe a competent manager would implement any decision in the face of unanimous opposition of his staff then you really don't understand anything about management.
This pretty much sums up the point I'm trying to make, that the decisions that the manager of football often gets blamed for, in particular list management decisions are made by 5 people, not 1.
if people don't like the decision, there are 5 people to blame for it;
if people do like the decision, there are 5 people to praise; not just the general manager.
Glad you managed to find one sentence you could use from my post.
Interesting that you still managed to flip my point from unanimous opposition to unanimous support though. Do you think that happens often?
So, if we're on the same wavelength you agree with the rest of what I wrote which refers to his role as Footy GM and was a response to your post:
As i said, if you can give details of what his role actually entails and which of these areas he is poor in, i may take these critisims seriously.
Satisfied that we're now on the same wavelength and you are now taking my criticisms of Cameron seriously. ;D