Author Topic: Batchelor gets contract extension to 2013 (RFC)  (Read 2308 times)

Offline yellowandback

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Re: Batchelor gets contract extension to 2013 (RFC)
« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2011, 08:48:11 PM »
:lol

If you can tell me what his role entails and what parts he does poorly then you may convince me.

4 years at the club, list man agent kpi for him. How does the list look?
 Okay but plenty of holes still.
How long to give a guy before he actually becomes accountable?
Took Chris Pelchen 4 years to make us a premier.

This is too Richmond, accept a mediocre result, make excuses be a sympathizer
It's that simple Spud
"I discussed (it) with my three daughters, my wife and my 82-year-old mum, because it has really affected me … If those comments … were made about one of my daughters, it would make the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. I would not have liked it at all.”

Offline one-eyed

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Re: Batchelor gets contract extension to 2013 (RFC)
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2011, 09:39:18 PM »

Offline mightytiges

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Re: Batchelor gets contract extension to 2013 (RFC)
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2011, 10:15:48 PM »
On ya Batch  :thumbsup. Another out of GWS' reach.
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Offline Penelope

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Re: Batchelor gets contract extension to 2013 (RFC)
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2011, 10:18:34 PM »
:lol

If you can tell me what his role entails and what parts he does poorly then you may convince me.

4 years at the club, list man agent kpi for him. How does the list look?
 Okay but plenty of holes still.
How long to give a guy before he actually becomes accountable?
Took Chris Pelchen 4 years to make us a premier.

This is too Richmond, accept a mediocre result, make excuses be a sympathizer

Where did i make an excuse for him?

He doesnt set policy.
He doesnt make decisions on his own, he is part of a group of decision makers.
Yet he gets blamed for any poor decision as if he does?

As i said, if you can give details of what his role actually entails and which of these areas he is poor in, i may take these critisims seriously.

Otherwise it reeks of him filling the need of a scapegoat for people to take their frustrations out on for past years of pain.

What do mean "Took Chris Pelchen 4 years to make us a premier."?

Yellowandbrown?
“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways my ways,” says the Lord.
 
“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are my ways higher than your ways,
And my thoughts than your thoughts."

Yahweh? or the great Clawski?

yaw rehto eht dellorcs ti fi daer ot reisae eb dluow tI

Online WilliamPowell

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Re: Batchelor gets contract extension to 2013 (RFC)
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2011, 10:30:01 PM »
And BTW I think you will find that Cameron isn't "list manager", that role falls under the CV of Blair Hartley.  ;D
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Offline mightytiges

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Re: Batchelor gets contract extension to 2013 (RFC)
« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2011, 10:33:05 PM »
Highlights of the best of Batchelor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_profilepage&v=Sw9yiT6V8rk
Got to love how in the most of those highlights Batch is excuting the perfect tackle which sees his opponent drop the ball yet the ump is in the background waving his arms signalling play on  :scream :wallywink :whistle
All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be - Pink Floyd

Offline mightytiges

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Re: Batchelor gets contract extension to 2013 (RFC)
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2011, 10:35:18 PM »
As head of our football dept. I'd guess a number of supporters see the buck stops with Cameron.
All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be - Pink Floyd

Offline Penelope

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Re: Batchelor gets contract extension to 2013 (RFC)
« Reply #22 on: November 08, 2011, 10:49:10 PM »
I'm sure they do MT, but i wonder if they would be happy to be the one to carry the can for decisions that are actually made by a group of people?




“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways my ways,” says the Lord.
 
“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are my ways higher than your ways,
And my thoughts than your thoughts."

Yahweh? or the great Clawski?

yaw rehto eht dellorcs ti fi daer ot reisae eb dluow tI

Offline mightytiges

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Re: Batchelor gets contract extension to 2013 (RFC)
« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2011, 11:03:46 PM »
I'm sure they do MT, but i wonder if they would be happy to be the one to carry the can for decisions that are actually made by a group of people?
I guess the reality is al it comes with the territory in footy whether rightly or wrongly. Same goes for the senior coach whose whole career depends on his group of players and how they perform. Even looking outside of footy the CEO of a sharelisted company carries the can for mistakes and poor returns (unless you're running Qantas lol :shh ). The buck normally stops at the top as it's his/her job to hire the best and right people underneath him to the maximum benefit of whatever organisation they are in charge of. I have no idea how much Cameron is getting paid but I'm guessing it would be safe to presume he'd be earning more than the bootstudder lol and most within the footy dept. Greater responsibility has its price.
All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be - Pink Floyd

Offline Penelope

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Re: Batchelor gets contract extension to 2013 (RFC)
« Reply #24 on: November 08, 2011, 11:21:51 PM »
true MT, but CEO of a company is pretty much at the top of the tree while cameron has a few people higher than him for the buck to stop at, in fact our own CEO is one of them

The machinations within a footy club would also be different to a publicly listed company too, I reckon.

...It doesnt seem to work the same way with the popular decisions made by the footy dept either.



“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways my ways,” says the Lord.
 
“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are my ways higher than your ways,
And my thoughts than your thoughts."

Yahweh? or the great Clawski?

yaw rehto eht dellorcs ti fi daer ot reisae eb dluow tI

Offline yellowandback

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Re: Batchelor gets contract extension to 2013 (RFC)
« Reply #25 on: November 09, 2011, 06:50:47 AM »
true MT, but CEO of a company is pretty much at the top of the tree while cameron has a few people higher than him for the buck to stop at, in fact our own CEO is one of them

The machinations within a footy club would also be different to a publicly listed company too, I reckon.

...It doesnt seem to work the same way with the popular decisions made by the footy dept either.

He is head of Football Al.

What do you think he is accountable for? Making sure there are plenty of sports drinks in the gym?
It's that simple Spud
"I discussed (it) with my three daughters, my wife and my 82-year-old mum, because it has really affected me … If those comments … were made about one of my daughters, it would make the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. I would not have liked it at all.”

Offline eliminator

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Re: Batchelor gets contract extension to 2013 (RFC)
« Reply #26 on: November 09, 2011, 07:12:10 AM »
Good decision with regrads to signing Batch up

Offline Penelope

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Re: Batchelor gets contract extension to 2013 (RFC)
« Reply #27 on: November 09, 2011, 09:08:57 AM »
true MT, but CEO of a company is pretty much at the top of the tree while cameron has a few people higher than him for the buck to stop at, in fact our own CEO is one of them

The machinations within a footy club would also be different to a publicly listed company too, I reckon.

...It doesnt seem to work the same way with the popular decisions made by the footy dept either.

He is head of Football Al.

What do you think he is accountable for? Making sure there are plenty of sports drinks in the gym?
so seems you don't seem to be able to say what you believe head of football actually does, I'll give you a couple of choices.


1: sits in his office and make all executive desicions regarding the football dept then ensure that his minions follow out his orders.

Or

2: is actually a co-ordinator, making sure that each area of the football dept recieves their share of allocated resourses to do their job properly. Ensuring that they communicate with each other and work effectively side by side. That important information is shared by relevant depts.

To collate and report information provided by each area and probably even then write reports which are then presented to the board/ceo on how the how the football dept is travelling.

To ensure that everyone is on the same wavelength and working together, to an agenda set by a commitee, of which he is only part of, not by him. The crucial dept appointments, eg coaching staff, recruiting officers are also appointed by a commitee. he may have power to hire and fire those further down the pecking order or he can make recomendations on these staff that may carry a lot of weight, but in most appointments that can have a serious impact on the outcome of football operations his voice is just one of a number.

Personally my view has been that the second option is closer to the mark, which MT pretty much confirmed after a fan night.
Quote
As for roles within the footy department - Cameron is the general manager of football so his role is to manage all the various arms of the footy dept - coaches, recruiting, list management, rehab, strength and conditioning. I think they were the 5 areas. The rehab and strength and conditioning areas have been split between two people and Matt Hornsby oversees both areas. The list management committee is made up of Cameron, Jackson, Hartley, Hardwick, Gale and Stahl (to keep an eye on finances). Dimma has a fair bit of input in trades but very little in draft selections. Cameron said they are organising the finances for the next year at the moment.
http://oneeyed-richmond.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=256437;topic=13949.45;last_msg=256792

So what it boils down to, is that every unpopular list management decision gets blamed on Cameron, even though, unless we have some insight to the everyday runnings of the club, most of us wouldn't know if Cameron was performing his role properly or not (some don't seem to even have an inkling or what his role actually is), and that these decisions are actually at the feet of Cameron, Jackson, Hartley, Hardwick, Stahl and Gale.

On the other hand the popular decisions are credited to the football club, not to Cameron himself

So not only is much of the criticism based on ignorance, there is an obvious double standard applied.

“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways my ways,” says the Lord.
 
“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are my ways higher than your ways,
And my thoughts than your thoughts."

Yahweh? or the great Clawski?

yaw rehto eht dellorcs ti fi daer ot reisae eb dluow tI

Offline HKTiger

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Re: Batchelor gets contract extension to 2013 (RFC)
« Reply #28 on: November 09, 2011, 07:14:40 PM »
As GM of the football dept CC has 65 to 80 employees.  A huge chunk of his job is just the normal mgmt roles of payroll, HR etc.

Given the direction set with respect of recruiting, list catergorisation (the point scoring of skills etc), coaching (as the Footy GM he is responsible for hiring Dimma) I think he's doing a good job. 

So on one or two negotiations (facing very good agents negotiating on behalf of their clients) and with the standard clauses in the AFLPA contracts that guarantee extensions based on games played (and yes that is a pretty standard clause that all agents will insist on) he may have erred, at least according to some external observers with no knowledge of exactly what occurred and how said player was rated by the coaches/list manager. 

Apart from that he and Blair are getting the list structure right.  Yeah there are gaps but you can probably only close one gap a year and they are steadily working to that.  If one or more of Helbig, Dea, McDonald or Derickx comes on, then the categorisation of players and ranking of skills and approach given to FJ should be deemed as a success as well.  That shows management acumen and appropriate delegation of jobs.  That's what I want from my manager, why should this be different.  Use people appropriate to their skills.  Monitor, manage, communicate and set the appropriate KPI's to do so.  And keep the noise (HR, payroll, interviews, negotiations, budgets, etc) out of the way of the executors of the agreed strategy.

Offline RedanTiger

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Re: Batchelor gets contract extension to 2013 (RFC)
« Reply #29 on: November 09, 2011, 08:22:00 PM »
Interesting Al that you downgraded the General Manager of Football to a "co-ordinator" and thus is not to blame for anything.
As THE senior manager of football his role is to set and maintain the plan for improvement in football.   
As a manager he has to ensure that all departments are performing at their best (to the plan) and take actions if they are not.

Look at some sections:
Fitness - underwhelming over years but no changes (addition of weights coach in 2009 excepted).
Medical - players continued to play with career threatening injuries. (pressure from coach?)
Welfare - players absent from the club without leave, then delisted.
Coaching - promised extra development coaches but have lost two. Is there a new structure with Smith and Williams?
Leadership - Bond in 2009, then Leading Teams, now another change.   
Budget - Why are we wasting resources in going to Arizona when Bulldogs have spent their money on equipment (cryosauna, altitude room).

While WP has said Hartley is List Manager I have seen nothing official beyond my feeling he's getting more input beyond his List Analyst role.
To claim Cameron is only a member of the List Committee is to ignore he is the final decision maker.
In fact, in the period in 2009 when Hardwick was first appointed, he and Campbell made the list decisions.