One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: one-eyed on May 10, 2012, 04:37:07 PM
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Terrys' Whisper - 9/5/12 - A New Tiger Dawn?
Posted by A Positive Move on 9 May 2012
For the first time in a long while Tiger fans are just starting to get excited about the direction of their team. The Tiger faithful have been down this pathway before so will tread wearily but I think they will have a good indication of whether the tide has finally turned in the next fortnight with games against Sydney and Essendon.
Undoubtedly the team is playing better football, with higher percentage and improvement in some key statistical areas. The following are my beliefs on why this could be a new Tiger dawn.
Drafting Young Guns
The Tigers were one of the old fashioned clubs who took the longest time to understand how important drafting was when it came into the AFL system. For around a decade they continued to trade away their first round picks. Sometimes for good quality senior players and other times they merely gave them away. Players such as Johnson, Schultz, Biddiscombe, Brown, Gaspar and Stafford are just a few names that come to mind quickly that all cost first round choices. The Club thought they could get a quick fix but they were buying in a group of players with mixed cultures rather than developing their own culture by drafting young players who would grow up together and create their own club environment. Although drafting errors were made the club now has a very good core of quality players who are all first round draft picks. Deledio, Cotchin, Riewoldt, Vickery, Rance, Martin, Conca and Ellis now create a brighter future for the club.
Spending on the Football Division
The club had a 5 million debt and every decision that was made for a decade was based around servicing that debt. The club lost focus that being competitive football wise was always the answer to stronger membership and corporate support. With the introduction of Brendon Gale as CEO, having a solid football background he unlocked the key to success by investing in all areas of the football department. One example of this was to bring List Manager Blair Hartley to the club who’s total focus was working on holes in the list and identifying players to fill these gaps. Houli, Grigg and this year Maric have added much needed depth, while Miller as a rookie has filled a void.
Specific Recruiting
Obviously the top draft picks will always be the Tigers stand out players but they have been very specific in three targeted areas in the draft. 1/ Elite kicking skills 2/ Competitive in nature 3/ Strong bodied players.
Settled Team
Every club needs some luck with injury but coach Hardwick has been very specific in his third year to select a group of players he thinks can take him forward. Regardless of winning or losing he has stuck with this group and not fluctuated at the selection table. This has given the group continuity of playing together.
Game Style
The coach came in with a specific instruction to the club about how he wanted the game played which was very similar to the model he was a part of at Hawthorn. Kicking skill and disposal efficiency were a key platform of this structure. In 2012 the Tigers are ranked 2nd in disposal efficiency only behind the undefeated Eagles.
For all those Tigers that have waited so long they now have some genuinely exciting players to follow and hopefully the many changes that have been made can finally deliver them some long awaited success.
http://www.speakersandevents.com.au/blog/terrys--whisper---9-5-12---a-new-tiger-dawn-
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add jordan mcmahon to that list?? bugger off terrence.
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Terrys' Whisper - 9/5/12 - A New Tiger Dawn?
Posted by A Positive Move on 9 May 2012
Drafting Young Guns
The Tigers were one of the old fashioned clubs who took the longest time to understand how important drafting was when it came into the AFL system. For around a decade they continued to trade away their first round picks. Sometimes for good quality senior players and other times they merely gave them away. Players such as Johnson, Schultz, Biddiscombe, Brown, Gaspar and Stafford are just a few names that come to mind quickly that all cost first round choices.
Really Terry, Gaspar cost a first round pick? Try a pick in the preseason draft. FFS at least contribute a modicum of research or knowledge to your spin.
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I think it is great that he can move on without any bitterness – by pretending he never coached us :P
BTW, that smoke felt good up my ass Tezza, would read again
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Failure as a coach and failure as a journo.
A weathered turd in the fishbowl that is the afl
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wasn't Schultz an early draft pick, not traded for :huh
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wasn't Schultz an early draft pick, not traded for :huh
we were in a 3 way trade with the roos and adelaide i think. we got Johnson and pick 12 (Schulz), Kangas got pick 2 (Wells) and Adelaide got Torney and Carey. I think I have that right ;D
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so we used an early pick on him that we got in a trade?
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so we used an early pick on him that we got in a trade?
yes sir but we traded away pick 2 I believe. some stats person could probably correct me if I am wrong
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just checked and you are right, we effectively dropped our first and second round picks 10 spots.
but we did draft the sarge and not trade for him as the the suntaned sultana was alluding too
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so we used an early pick on him that we got in a trade?
yes sir but we traded away pick 2 I believe. some stats person could probably correct me if I am wrong
We did, but we were right royally screwed by the AFL. We actually had choice 4 at the time. I knew people at the club and they felt there were 3 really good players in the draft and the rest you could throw a blanket over. They went to the league and asked if they should get involved with swapping their pick. The league said no worries go ahead. We did. Then at the last moment the league punishes Carlton for breaching the salary cap and suddenly pick 4 becomes pick 2! We complain to the league and they say bad luck! The people I knew said to me they NEVER WOULD HAVE TRADED PICK 2.
So by punishing Carlton the AFL also punished us.
The people I knew were very UNHAPPY!
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just checked and you are right, we effectively dropped our first and second round picks 10 spots.
but we did draft the sarge and not trade for him as the the suntaned sultana was alluding too
We also didn't trade him when port offered a 2nd rounder
In the end all we got was a fraggle farm
Now we don't even have that :(
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fraggle stick car
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Love how he failed to mention thE drafting blunders ofhis period at the club, pffft, johnson, brown, gasper stafford only played 700 odd games between them, try jon, tambling polo, patterson and meyer that cost us round one selections and you guessed it, tambling aside wouldnt have played 50 games bw them :lol...terry wallace what a joke :cheers
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Forget the article, what I find staggering is his ability to talk about us or the Dogs without having a hint of any remorse nor acknowledgement on his failings and continue on with life as if nothing has hapenned. Terry is the type of bloke who'll fart in a full elevator yet will be more than happy to blame someone else for it.
To me he is like the septugenenarian parent who when confronted by angry kids change the subject to something totally unrelated to what was being discussed and then more than happy to remember and remind you of something you did when you were 8 years old.
I can't say go fornicate to mum and dad but I'll say it to Terry. :wallywink
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Failure as a coach and failure as a journo.
A weathered turd in the fishbowl that is the afl
Nice try dubstep but the plough insults should really be left to Tucker. He owns The Tanned One :thumbsup
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Failure as a coach and failure as a journo.
A weathered turd in the fishbowl that is the afl
Nice try dubstep but the plough insults should really be left to Tucker. He owns The Tanned One :thumbsup
Yeah Dubstep, How dare you......
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wasn't Schultz an early draft pick, not traded for :huh
we were in a 3 way trade with the roos and adelaide i think. we got Johnson and pick 12 (Schulz), Kangas got pick 2 (Wells) and Adelaide got Torney and Carey. I think I have that right ;D
We should have had wells or goddard. We got screwed because carlton are chests?
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We did, but we were right royally screwed by the AFL. We actually had choice 4 at the time. I knew people at the club and they felt there were 3 really good players in the draft and the rest you could throw a blanket over. They went to the league and asked if they should get involved with swapping their pick. The league said no worries go ahead. We did. Then at the last moment the league punishes Carlton for breaching the salary cap and suddenly pick 4 becomes pick 2! We complain to the league and they say bad luck! The people I knew said to me they NEVER WOULD HAVE TRADED PICK 2.
So by punishing Carlton the AFL also punished us.
The people I knew were very UNHAPPY!
Absolutely correct
when we traded for Johnson we traded pick 4 then weeks later it became pick 2 when the league stripped Carlton of draft picks for salary cheating. The league should have worked out the sanctions against the blues before trade week or delayed trade week ....we were screwed by the league big time
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Article on a booking agency website? lolz
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Failure as a coach and failure as a journo.
A weathered turd in the fishbowl that is the afl
Nice try dubstep but the plough insults should really be left to Tucker. He owns The Tanned One :thumbsup
Yeah Dubstep, How dare you......
Tucker mustve been posting when I posted that. It was good by the Dubber but Tuck just proved my point :thumbsup
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We did, but we were right royally screwed by the AFL. We actually had choice 4 at the time. I knew people at the club and they felt there were 3 really good players in the draft and the rest you could throw a blanket over. They went to the league and asked if they should get involved with swapping their pick. The league said no worries go ahead. We did. Then at the last moment the league punishes Carlton for breaching the salary cap and suddenly pick 4 becomes pick 2! We complain to the league and they say bad luck! The people I knew said to me they NEVER WOULD HAVE TRADED PICK 2.
So by punishing Carlton the AFL also punished us.
The people I knew were very UNHAPPY!
Absolutely correct
when we traded for Johnson we traded pick 4 then weeks later it became pick 2 when the league stripped Carlton of draft picks for salary cheating. The league should have worked out the sanctions against the blues before trade week or delayed trade week ....we were screwed by the league big time
What a load of rubbish!!!
The club was screwed by the league???? You've got to be joking??
This was the same draft the club in it's wisdom thought it good to actually pick Shultz, Fleming and let's not forget, "the great" Billy Nicholls.
Reality is they were the worst club at selecting good players and even worse at developing players. Even if they had pick 2 they probably wouldve picked up Shultz earlier.
But even if they sneaked over to another clubs table and copied their short list because other clubs had some clue and actually watched the players (they were thinking of drafting) play, they wouldve ruined the career of that player anyway with pee poor development.
So I wouldn't be blaming the AFL for screwing us over but I'd be blaming the club administration and the worst recruiter in the league.
Thank God for Benny Gale and finally some vision at Richmond.
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We did, but we were right royally screwed by the AFL. We actually had choice 4 at the time. I knew people at the club and they felt there were 3 really good players in the draft and the rest you could throw a blanket over. They went to the league and asked if they should get involved with swapping their pick. The league said no worries go ahead. We did. Then at the last moment the league punishes Carlton for breaching the salary cap and suddenly pick 4 becomes pick 2! We complain to the league and they say bad luck! The people I knew said to me they NEVER WOULD HAVE TRADED PICK 2.
So by punishing Carlton the AFL also punished us.
The people I knew were very UNHAPPY!
Absolutely correct
when we traded for Johnson we traded pick 4 then weeks later it became pick 2 when the league stripped Carlton of draft picks for salary cheating. The league should have worked out the sanctions against the blues before trade week or delayed trade week ....we were screwed by the league big time
What a load of rubbish!!!
The club was screwed by the league???? You've got to be joking??
This was the same draft the club in it's wisdom thought it good to actually pick Shultz, Fleming and let's not forget, "the great" Billy Nicholls.
Reality is they were the worst club at selecting good players and even worse at developing players. Even if they had pick 2 they probably wouldve picked up Shultz earlier.
But even if they sneaked over to another clubs table and copied their short list because other clubs had some clue and actually watched the players (they were thinking of drafting) play, they wouldve ruined the career of that player anyway with pee poor development.
So I wouldn't be blaming the AFL for screwing us over but I'd be blaming the club administration and the worst recruiter in the league.
Thank God for Benny Gale and finally some vision at Richmond.
And thank god for our leading goal kicker Brad Miller, our season would be up the creek without him!
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And thank god for our leading goal kicker Brad Miller, our season would be up the creek without him!
FFS even Tiger from Tas can see it. :banghead
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Didn't read Mr Tugra's post because it was too long
But I think I agree
The club shouldn't have been trading pick 4 regardless for an injury ravaged HBF
That had to be the worst draft of all time though
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What a load of rubbish!!!
The club was screwed by the league???? You've got to be joking??
This was the same draft the club in it's wisdom thought it good to actually pick Shultz, Fleming and let's not forget, "the great" Billy Nicholls.
Reality is they were the worst club at selecting good players and even worse at developing players. Even if they had pick 2 they probably wouldve picked up Shultz earlier.
But even if they sneaked over to another clubs table and copied their short list because other clubs had some clue and actually watched the players (they were thinking of drafting) play, they wouldve ruined the career of that player anyway with pee poor development.
So I wouldn't be blaming the AFL for screwing us over but I'd be blaming the club administration and the worst recruiter in the league.
Thank God for Benny Gale and finally some vision at Richmond.
So the FACT that when the club traded in good faith what they believed was pick 4 for Johnson and then a month after trade week concluded the AFL decides to stripe Carlton of their picks meaning pick 4 is suddenly pick 2 is the fault of the RFC? To boorw your phrase "What aload of rubbish"
So you think that it is fine that the governing body of the competition, the rule makers that set rules that clubs are foreced to follow can after everyone follows said rules can change them without any warning on something which results in the change of draft positions for ALL clubs is fair, eithical and right ...well good for you....
The rule change mid-stream was wrong and it screwed clubs; ours included
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obviously this part
We actually had choice 4 at the time. I knew people at the club and they felt there were 3 really good players in the draft and the rest you could throw a blanket over.
was not read,comprehended or just ignored by Mr T
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Funny when we were so called as bad as fitzroy and the media were calling for us to be given charity draft picks the afl or media didnt bring this up but focused only on the fiora/tambling/JON
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obviously this part
We actually had choice 4 at the time. I knew people at the club and they felt there were 3 really good players in the draft and the rest you could throw a blanket over.
was not read,comprehended or just ignored by Mr T
Looks like it doesn't it....
I'll choose to ignore the ramblings of Mr Tigra. He seems to let aggression and emotion get in the way of reasoning. There is no point arguing with those types as logic and sense are poorly comprehended.
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What a load of rubbish!!!
The club was screwed by the league???? You've got to be joking??
This was the same draft the club in it's wisdom thought it good to actually pick Shultz, Fleming and let's not forget, "the great" Billy Nicholls.
Reality is they were the worst club at selecting good players and even worse at developing players. Even if they had pick 2 they probably wouldve picked up Shultz earlier.
But even if they sneaked over to another clubs table and copied their short list because other clubs had some clue and actually watched the players (they were thinking of drafting) play, they wouldve ruined the career of that player anyway with pee poor development.
So I wouldn't be blaming the AFL for screwing us over but I'd be blaming the club administration and the worst recruiter in the league.
Thank God for Benny Gale and finally some vision at Richmond.
So the FACT that when the club traded in good faith what they believed was pick 4 for Johnson and then a month after trade week concluded the AFL decides to stripe Carlton of their picks meaning pick 4 is suddenly pick 2 is the fault of the RFC? To boorw your phrase "What aload of rubbish"
So you think that it is fine that the governing body of the competition, the rule makers that set rules that clubs are foreced to follow can after everyone follows said rules can change them without any warning on something which results in the change of draft positions for ALL clubs is fair, eithical and right ...well good for you....
The rule change mid-stream was wrong and it screwed clubs; ours included
obviously you didn't read my post WP.
You are taking a pot shot at the AFL for making a decision on Carlton after we had already decided to trade our pick. But I'm saying it wouldn't have mattered what pick we had because we were hopeless at picking talent and even worse at developing players.
You can blame the AFL all you want but Richmond has been poo all by itself.
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We would have had wells or goddard w #2.
Blind freddy would have drafted it right. Afl screwed us.
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We would have had Wells and he'd have been delisted 3 years ago lmfao
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G'day all
To correct the record, it was always a possibility that the AFL was going to take away draft picks from carlton as early as mid October 2002, and before we traded for Sugar. If you google it you will find heaps of comments on bigfooty/footygoss about the possibility of the sanctions.
I remember thinking at the time the Sugar deal was announced that we had in effect traded pick 2 and not pick 4 because of the likely sanctions.
see: http://www.footygoss.com/index.php/forums/viewthread/5840/#55920
We traded away knowing that possibility.
Our fault not the AFL's fault.
What the AFL should have done though, is put back trade week that year to allow the carlton sanctions to be imposed first. Then clubs would have know exactly what number pick they were trading.
We took the gamble- did we lose - arguably yes cos Wells is still playing and Sugar is long retired. But Sugar lead us when we didnt have much cattle on the ground. Gerks might be right - Wells may have been delisted at the tigers cos of our lack of development of our young players in those days.
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G'day all
To correct the record, it was always a possibility that the AFL was going to take away draft picks from carlton as early as mid October 2002, and before we traded for Sugar. If you google it you will find heaps of comments on bigfooty/footygoss about the possibility of the sanctions.
I remember thinking at the time the Sugar deal was announced that we had in effect traded pick 2 and not pick 4 because of the likely sanctions.
see: http://www.footygoss.com/index.php/forums/viewthread/5840/#55920
We traded away knowing that possibility.
Our fault not the AFL's fault.
What the AFL should have done though, is put back trade week that year to allow the carlton sanctions to be imposed first. Then clubs would have know exactly what number pick they were trading.
We took the gamble- did we lose - arguably yes cos Wells is still playing and Sugar is long retired. But Sugar lead us when we didnt have much cattle on the ground. Gerks might be right - Wells may have been delisted at the tigers cos of our lack of development of our young players in those days.
Well I can tell you the club went to the league and asked the bluntly about the possibility of sanctions. They're response was to go ahead and the club felt that that indicated they were not going to strip picks away.
That is fact. Not BF BS!
I knew people in the highest positions at the club at the time. So you can say what you want. You were not privy to the information I was at the time.
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G'day all
To correct the record, it was always a possibility that the AFL was going to take away draft picks from carlton as early as mid October 2002, and before we traded for Sugar. If you google it you will find heaps of comments on bigfooty/footygoss about the possibility of the sanctions.
I remember thinking at the time the Sugar deal was announced that we had in effect traded pick 2 and not pick 4 because of the likely sanctions.
see: http://www.footygoss.com/index.php/forums/viewthread/5840/#55920
We traded away knowing that possibility.
Our fault not the AFL's fault.
What the AFL should have done though, is put back trade week that year to allow the carlton sanctions to be imposed first. Then clubs would have know exactly what number pick they were trading.
We took the gamble- did we lose - arguably yes cos Wells is still playing and Sugar is long retired. But Sugar lead us when we didnt have much cattle on the ground. Gerks might be right - Wells may have been delisted at the tigers cos of our lack of development of our young players in those days.
Well done Tigger. :clapping
It goes to show how stupid the club has been.
And even if we had pick 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 they wouldve either stuffed it up completely as history shows they always did. Or they wouldve ruined the career of a potential great player.
This are the FACTS regardless of the bullcrap anyone associated with the club has said in the past.
History speaks louder than Wallet or any other backroom idiot that was making decisions during those years.
The club was at fault and was a laughing stock.
And I'll say it again, thank God for Benny Gale and his vision.
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Benny Gale is a gumby
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What has God got to do with Benny Gale? Leave that poo off the forum please.
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What has God got to do with Benny Gale? Leave that poo off the forum please.
Amen to that!
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What has God got to do with Benny Gale? Leave that poo off the forum please.
Amen to that!
Phillip has been my husband and has been for the best part of 17 years. I suggest you face it and move on.
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No problem man, 'go all in'.
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No problem man, 'go all in'.
Don't forget to bring me flowers when you visit tomorrow.
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Whoa :shh Back on topic people! :police:
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G'day all
To correct the record, it was always a possibility that the AFL was going to take away draft picks from carlton as early as mid October 2002, and before we traded for Sugar. If you google it you will find heaps of comments on bigfooty/footygoss about the possibility of the sanctions.
I remember thinking at the time the Sugar deal was announced that we had in effect traded pick 2 and not pick 4 because of the likely sanctions.
see: http://www.footygoss.com/index.php/forums/viewthread/5840/#55920
We traded away knowing that possibility.
Our fault not the AFL's fault.
What the AFL should have done though, is put back trade week that year to allow the carlton sanctions to be imposed first. Then clubs would have know exactly what number pick they were trading.
We took the gamble- did we lose - arguably yes cos Wells is still playing and Sugar is long retired. But Sugar lead us when we didnt have much cattle on the ground. Gerks might be right - Wells may have been delisted at the tigers cos of our lack of development of our young players in those days.
Well done Tigger. :clapping
It goes to show how stupid the club has been.
And even if we had pick 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 they wouldve either stuffed it up completely as history shows they always did. Or they wouldve ruined the career of a potential great player.
This are the FACTS regardless of the bullcrap anyone associated with the club has said in the past.
History speaks louder than Wallet or any other backroom idiot that was making decisions during those years.
The club was at fault and was a laughing stock.
And I'll say it again, thank God for Benny Gale and his vision.
What you regard as fact is not. It is supposition. If you don't know the difference look it up in the dictionary. If we selected Wells how do you know for sure how things would have turned out? There is a very strong chance he would have bombed out. That is not fact, however, it's supposition.
When the president of the club tells you what he was told by the AFL at the time (not later), and you hear it clearly, that is fact.
I agree that Benny Gale has turned the ship around and both he and Hardwick have been united with March supporting them. It's the best the club has been from an administrative point for many many years.
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What a load of rubbish!!!
The club was screwed by the league???? You've got to be joking??
This was the same draft the club in it's wisdom thought it good to actually pick Shultz, Fleming and let's not forget, "the great" Billy Nicholls.
Reality is they were the worst club at selecting good players and even worse at developing players. Even if they had pick 2 they probably wouldve picked up Shultz earlier.
But even if they sneaked over to another clubs table and copied their short list because other clubs had some clue and actually watched the players (they were thinking of drafting) play, they wouldve ruined the career of that player anyway with pee poor development.
So I wouldn't be blaming the AFL for screwing us over but I'd be blaming the club administration and the worst recruiter in the league.
Thank God for Benny Gale and finally some vision at Richmond.
Great post Mr Tigra! We can't keep on blaming the league, past coaches, Carlton or anyone else for our prolonged period of failure. This example is just one in a series of poor club administration blunders from Richmond. Our administration has made error after error with recruiting, development and finances.
For too long we have made poorly informed 'gut feel' decisions to our future detriment. This is why I'm loving Benny, Dimma and Hartley at the moment because they are making decisions based on long term goals and with exhaustive research behind them.
In it not coincidence we now finally starting to look competitive on field.
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What a load of rubbish!!!
The club was screwed by the league???? You've got to be joking??
This was the same draft the club in it's wisdom thought it good to actually pick Shultz, Fleming and let's not forget, "the great" Billy Nicholls.
Reality is they were the worst club at selecting good players and even worse at developing players. Even if they had pick 2 they probably wouldve picked up Shultz earlier.
But even if they sneaked over to another clubs table and copied their short list because other clubs had some clue and actually watched the players (they were thinking of drafting) play, they wouldve ruined the career of that player anyway with pee poor development.
So I wouldn't be blaming the AFL for screwing us over but I'd be blaming the club administration and the worst recruiter in the league.
Thank God for Benny Gale and finally some vision at Richmond.
Great post Mr Tigra! We can't keep on blaming the league, past coaches, Carlton or anyone else for our prolonged period of failure. This example is just one in a series of poor club administration blunders from Richmond. Our administration has made error after error with recruiting, development and finances.
For too long we have made poorly informed 'gut feel' decisions to our future detriment. This is why I'm loving Benny, Dimma and Hartley at the moment because they are making decisions based on long term goals and with exhaustive research behind them.
In it not coincidence we now finally starting to look competitive on field.
:thumbsup
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G'day all
To correct the record, it was always a possibility that the AFL was going to take away draft picks from carlton as early as mid October 2002, and before we traded for Sugar. If you google it you will find heaps of comments on bigfooty/footygoss about the possibility of the sanctions.
I remember thinking at the time the Sugar deal was announced that we had in effect traded pick 2 and not pick 4 because of the likely sanctions.
see: http://www.footygoss.com/index.php/forums/viewthread/5840/#55920
We traded away knowing that possibility.
Our fault not the AFL's fault.
What the AFL should have done though, is put back trade week that year to allow the carlton sanctions to be imposed first. Then clubs would have know exactly what number pick they were trading.
We took the gamble- did we lose - arguably yes cos Wells is still playing and Sugar is long retired. But Sugar lead us when we didnt have much cattle on the ground. Gerks might be right - Wells may have been delisted at the tigers cos of our lack of development of our young players in those days.
Well done Tigger. :clapping
It goes to show how stupid the club has been.
And even if we had pick 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 they wouldve either stuffed it up completely as history shows they always did. Or they wouldve ruined the career of a potential great player.
This are the FACTS regardless of the bullcrap anyone associated with the club has said in the past.
History speaks louder than Wallet or any other backroom idiot that was making decisions during those years.
The club was at fault and was a laughing stock.
And I'll say it again, thank God for Benny Gale and his vision.
What you regard as fact is not. It is supposition. If you don't know the difference look it up in the dictionary. If we selected Wells how do you know for sure how things would have turned out? There is a very strong chance he would have bombed out. That is not fact, however, it's supposition.
When the president of the club tells you what he was told by the AFL at the time (not later), and you hear it clearly, that is fact.
I agree that Benny Gale has turned the ship around and both he and Hardwick have been united with March supporting them. It's the best the club has been from an administrative point for many many years.
ok YBB. I suppose we would of stuffed up either the pick or the player we picked.
But the facts are that everything the club did during that period was stupid so historical evidence would support my supposition. Another fact is that the president you spoke to during that period the one and only Clinton Casey was the worst president in the clubs history so I couldn't care less what he said to you in private.
Oh let's not forget his appointment of Anthony Mithen to the Board as well. Only problem with it was that Anthony didn't even know he was being appointed. No wonder we have been the joke for so many years.
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The Crows made a bigger mistake by trading that pick for Carey