One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: one-eyed on May 28, 2012, 02:19:52 AM
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Embattled Melbourne coach Mark Neeld takes heart from Richmond's turnaround from an 0-9 start only two seasons ago.
Neeld, who watched the Tigers thrash Hawthorn at the MCG on Saturday, said it reinforced his stance to continue with his long-term plans.
"I've said a few times, major shifts in footy clubs take time," he said yesterday.
"We live in a society that's all about, 'I've got to have it now. Give it to me now'.
"The idea that people can sit down and come up with a plan and make sure they build solid foundations, for whatever reason seems to be lost on the community.
"Richmond is a perfect example. It's certainly not lost on me that two years ago, they were in exactly the same position we are now.
"They stayed the course as a whole club and supporter base. They kept working hard and stuck to the structures that Dimma (Damien Hardwick) wanted and the rest of the club wanted.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/afl/more-news/melbourne-turns-to-richmond-for-inspiration/story-e6frf9jf-1226368674172
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Yes we were 0-9 when we first started with Hardwick but....
a/ Melbourne have no good players.
b/ Cameron Schwab is still in charge.
c/ They are a rabble off field, player development is terrible, they have no home, they have no fans.
d/ When we were 0-9 we were trying our guts out. Melbournes senior players are sulking, and don't seem to be trying on field.
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Also we had gutted our list (once again) and had very few senior players playing. The senior players we had on the field were our leaders in Newman and Lids but almost all the rest were football infants. We were losing, not through effort (I completely agree with you wayne) but just because we were two inexperienced and small. We were finding players that would take us forward.
The only similarities I see is that both teams were learning the new coaches game plan and how to work together as a consistent lineup.
I remember hearing how positive our young side remained despite the loses and how positive the coaches were. I can't see this at Melbourne either.
I predict a lot more pain this year and next for a team that was meant to be above us and pushing for finals in 2012....
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Also an experienced player like Tuck - didnt sulk. Knew he wasnt getting a look in at first but stayed the course. Worked on his deficencies and is now reaping the benefits.
Lids wasnt overly defensive at the end of the 2009 year - but know is quite defensive to go along with his run and carry.
People who didnt buy into Dimma's plan or didnt fit into Dimma's plan went out the door - eg McMahon - didnt play a game in 2010 from memory - ciao.
I dont see melbourne players having the change in mindset like our players had atm.
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Rumors grimes wants to come to punt road.
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Rubbish
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Rubbish
It's true :shh
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Rumors grimes wants to come to punt road.
I wouldn't be surprised and I would think we'd be a very attractive team to opposition players wanting a change of scenery.
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Yes we were 0-9 when we first started with Hardwick but....
a/ Melbourne have no good players.
b/ Cameron Schwab is still in charge.
c/ They are a rabble off field, player development is terrible, they have no home, they have no fans.
d/ When we were 0-9 we were trying our guts out. Melbournes senior players are sulking, and don't seem to be trying on field.
And right there you have the fallout from tanking. Can't buy attitude, individual-wise or club-wise.
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Yes we were 0-9 when we first started with Hardwick but....
a/ Melbourne have no good players.
b/ Cameron Schwab is still in charge.
c/ They are a rabble off field, player development is terrible, they have no home, they have no fans.
d/ When we were 0-9 we were trying our guts out. Melbournes senior players are sulking, and don't seem to be trying on field.
And right there you have the fallout from tanking. Can't buy attitude, individual-wise or club-wise.
It's a long bow to draw that they are tanking, no priority pickollas
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Yet I remember the last three times they have beaten us
Round 4 2010, Round 19 2010 and Round 14 last year they claimed they were still well ahead of us and we were two years behind them in terms of development.
Fast forward 20 rounds and since then they have had 2 wins
One by 21 points to Port in Marrara in Round 17 and a 5 goal win against GC at the G in the penultimate Round last year. Hardly shattering stuff.
Then include three 100+ point defeats to Geelong 186 West Coast 108 Sydney 101
Three 10 goal plus defeats but less than 100
Five defeats by more than 40 points and less than 60.
You can tank all you like but no leadership no heart no passion no system no integrity no toughness leads to failure of the hardest order and leaves way too few to carry the can with the majority just standing around and letting things crumble down around them.
I can remember after our Round 7 loss to Adelaide in 2010 the papers were equating us to Fitzroy in 1996 yet I think it is more accurate equating that to Melbourne. At least we have members, supporters, character and passion (for a long time just in the stands at least)
Furthermore I can say that at no time have we fallen to Melbourne's diabolical depths and we have sunk very low in the last 30 years.
They can't do any worse than following us but unfortunantely for Mark Neeld it will take more than 2 years as they still have to cull the impotent and disinterested senior core who it may take 2 seasons to cull. At least we had a mass of retirements and delistings at the end of 2009 to reinvigorate the list and start the rebuild.
Yet even some of their picks since the current rebuild in 2007 are failing to make the grade or bring a level of consistency that can sustain a successful AFL career.
Can the Dees survive 5 more years with no finals and more importantly without their spiritual leader in the late Jimmy Stynes?
Sad state of affars for the ski chalet kids.
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Yes we were 0-9 when we first started with Hardwick but....
a/ Melbourne have no good players.
b/ Cameron Schwab is still in charge.
c/ They are a rabble off field, player development is terrible, they have no home, they have no fans.
d/ When we were 0-9 we were trying our guts out. Melbournes senior players are sulking, and don't seem to be trying on field.
And right there you have the fallout from tanking. Can't buy attitude, individual-wise or club-wise.
It's a long bow to draw that they are tanking, no priority pickollas
If they finish bottom they get pick 1,2 and viney who is a top 5 pick for their second rounder under father son, if a couple of clubs finish beneath them and feel viney is worth pick 1,2 or 3 and nominate intention to draft viney for one of thosepicks then Melbourne must use their first pick on him. Massive massive reward if they finish last this season
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These blokes won the occasional game under Bailey.
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Yes we were 0-9 when we first started with Hardwick but....
a/ Melbourne have no good players.
b/ Cameron Schwab is still in charge.
c/ They are a rabble off field, player development is terrible, they have no home, they have no fans.
d/ When we were 0-9 we were trying our guts out. Melbournes senior players are sulking, and don't seem to be trying on field.
And right there you have the fallout from tanking. Can't buy attitude, individual-wise or club-wise.
It's a long bow to draw that they are tanking, no priority pickollas
Not saying they are doing it now HRT, I'm referring to their tanking circa '08/'09. Every sage under the sun at the time was proclaiming the wisdom and benefits of tanking and how such moral and wise actions had the Demons a couple of years ahead of the 'dumb' Tigers in regards to their respective rebuilds. Neeld's observations and comments are irony of the highest order and an abject lesson in the merits of not trying to win.
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Yes we were 0-9 when we first started with Hardwick but....
a/ Melbourne have no good players.
b/ Cameron Schwab is still in charge.
c/ They are a rabble off field, player development is terrible, they have no home, they have no fans.
d/ When we were 0-9 we were trying our guts out. Melbournes senior players are sulking, and don't seem to be trying on field.
And right there you have the fallout from tanking. Can't buy attitude, individual-wise or club-wise.
It's a long bow to draw that they are tanking, no priority pickollas
If they finish bottom they get pick 1,2 and viney who is a top 5 pick for their second rounder under father son, if a couple of clubs finish beneath them and feel viney is worth pick 1,2 or 3 and nominate intention to draft viney for one of thosepicks then Melbourne must use their first pick on him. Massive massive reward if they finish last this season
Groundhog Day. Meanwhile, we are well on the path to finals and a crack at a flag.
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Yes we were 0-9 when we first started with Hardwick but....
a/ Melbourne have no good players.
b/ Cameron Schwab is still in charge.
c/ They are a rabble off field, player development is terrible, they have no home, they have no fans.
d/ When we were 0-9 we were trying our guts out. Melbournes senior players are sulking, and don't seem to be trying on field.
And right there you have the fallout from tanking. Can't buy attitude, individual-wise or club-wise.
It's a long bow to draw that they are tanking, no priority pickollas
If they finish bottom they get pick 1,2 and viney who is a top 5 pick for their second rounder under father son, if a couple of clubs finish beneath them and feel viney is worth pick 1,2 or 3 and nominate intention to draft viney for one of thosepicks then Melbourne must use their first pick on him. Massive massive reward if they finish last this season
They will not get 1 and 2, just pick 1 as the AFL scrapped the priority pick system. They do have the 2 Scully pick which means they have 3 first round picks. 1 of the 3 will be used on Viney, would definitely be in their best interests to finish bottom, otherwise any team under them can bid on Viney rendering their first pick (2, 3, 4 etc.) the 'Viney pick'. :shh
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They will not get 1 and 2, just pick 1 as the AFL scrapped the priority pick system. They do have the 2 Scully pick which means they have 3 first round picks. 1 of the 3 will be used on Viney, would definitely be in their best interests to finish bottom, otherwise any team under them can bid on Viney rendering their first pick (2, 3, 4 etc.) the 'Viney pick'. :shh
They do get pick 1 and 2 if they finish last.
Pick 1 for finishing bottom, and the first Scully compo pick comes directly after where the Demons finish. There is your pick 2.
If they finish bottom, no-one can outbid them for Jack Viney, which means they can use their 2nd round pick to get him.
The second Scully compo pick comes in between the picks of the 9th and 8th placed teams. 14-ish.
So if they finish last they will have picks 1, 2, 14 and Jack Viney (2nd rounder). Luckily for us they can't draft and develop talent very well.
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If they are going to go anywhere they need to clean the cupboard of primadonna's like Sylvia & Davey. IMO Jones, Grimes, Moloney & Frawley are the only senior players I'd ask to hang around.
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If they are going to go anywhere they need to clean the cupboard of primadonna's like Sylvia & Davey. IMO Jones, Grimes, Moloney & Frawley are the only senior players I'd ask to hang around.
Took the words out of my mouth mate :thumbsup
Would also have to recruit some grunt players from free agency
Maybe even get a big name or too with winning attitudes
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Are years behind where they need to be.
had the drafts picks and wasted a few on soft players.
merge with norf pls
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Only similarity is the 0-9 and poo % we won 5 out of our next 6 to be 5-10. Dees have Essendon and Collingwood next. Comparisons end this week.
Also, I was worried about them getting 1,2 and Viney but lets face it they are so bad that I doubt it will matter. Odds are they take Whitfield at 1 and he turns out a Cale Morton, a KPF at 2 and he becomes Jack Watts etc.
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They will not get 1 and 2, just pick 1 as the AFL scrapped the priority pick system. They do have the 2 Scully pick which means they have 3 first round picks. 1 of the 3 will be used on Viney, would definitely be in their best interests to finish bottom, otherwise any team under them can bid on Viney rendering their first pick (2, 3, 4 etc.) the 'Viney pick'. :shh
They do get pick 1 and 2 if they finish last.
Pick 1 for finishing bottom, and the first Scully compo pick comes directly after where the Demons finish. There is your pick 2.
If they finish bottom, no-one can outbid them for Jack Viney, which means they can use their 2nd round pick to get him.
The second Scully compo pick comes in between the picks of the 9th and 8th placed teams. 14-ish.
So if they finish last they will have picks 1, 2, 14 and Jack Viney (2nd rounder). Luckily for us they can't draft and develop talent very well.
I stand corrected . . . but what a load of crap, Scully worth a mid first rounder and a pick straight after their first round? He has played 30-40 games! :banghead :banghead
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They will not get 1 and 2, just pick 1 as the AFL scrapped the priority pick system. They do have the 2 Scully pick which means they have 3 first round picks. 1 of the 3 will be used on Viney, would definitely be in their best interests to finish bottom, otherwise any team under them can bid on Viney rendering their first pick (2, 3, 4 etc.) the 'Viney pick'. :shh
They do get pick 1 and 2 if they finish last.
Pick 1 for finishing bottom, and the first Scully compo pick comes directly after where the Demons finish. There is your pick 2.
If they finish bottom, no-one can outbid them for Jack Viney, which means they can use their 2nd round pick to get him.
The second Scully compo pick comes in between the picks of the 9th and 8th placed teams. 14-ish.
So if they finish last they will have picks 1, 2, 14 and Jack Viney (2nd rounder). Luckily for us they can't draft and develop talent very well.
what do mean by the highlighted part wayne?
surely if someone bids their first round pick then Melbourne must use their first round pick on him?
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They will not get 1 and 2, just pick 1 as the AFL scrapped the priority pick system. They do have the 2 Scully pick which means they have 3 first round picks. 1 of the 3 will be used on Viney, would definitely be in their best interests to finish bottom, otherwise any team under them can bid on Viney rendering their first pick (2, 3, 4 etc.) the 'Viney pick'. :shh
They do get pick 1 and 2 if they finish last.
Pick 1 for finishing bottom, and the first Scully compo pick comes directly after where the Demons finish. There is your pick 2.
If they finish bottom, no-one can outbid them for Jack Viney, which means they can use their 2nd round pick to get him.
The second Scully compo pick comes in between the picks of the 9th and 8th placed teams. 14-ish.
So if they finish last they will have picks 1, 2, 14 and Jack Viney (2nd rounder). Luckily for us they can't draft and develop talent very well.
what do mean by the highlighted part wayne?
surely if someone bids their first round pick then Melbourne must use their first round pick on him?
That is correct al, it was confirmed today on SEN that if someone was to offer a first round pick for Viney then Melbourne have to part with a first round pick to get him and if that pick is #1 then so be it....
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They will not get 1 and 2, just pick 1 as the AFL scrapped the priority pick system. They do have the 2 Scully pick which means they have 3 first round picks. 1 of the 3 will be used on Viney, would definitely be in their best interests to finish bottom, otherwise any team under them can bid on Viney rendering their first pick (2, 3, 4 etc.) the 'Viney pick'. :shh
They do get pick 1 and 2 if they finish last.
Pick 1 for finishing bottom, and the first Scully compo pick comes directly after where the Demons finish. There is your pick 2.
If they finish bottom, no-one can outbid them for Jack Viney, which means they can use their 2nd round pick to get him.
The second Scully compo pick comes in between the picks of the 9th and 8th placed teams. 14-ish.
So if they finish last they will have picks 1, 2, 14 and Jack Viney (2nd rounder). Luckily for us they can't draft and develop talent very well.
what do mean by the highlighted part wayne?
surely if someone bids their first round pick then Melbourne must use their first round pick on him?
What happens if someone bids their 1st pick on him just to try and stuff over Melbourne? What if Melbourne say "okay then m8. you can have him" only for club trying to stuff over Melbourne to say they don't want him anymore?
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They will not get 1 and 2, just pick 1 as the AFL scrapped the priority pick system. They do have the 2 Scully pick which means they have 3 first round picks. 1 of the 3 will be used on Viney, would definitely be in their best interests to finish bottom, otherwise any team under them can bid on Viney rendering their first pick (2, 3, 4 etc.) the 'Viney pick'. :shh
They do get pick 1 and 2 if they finish last.
Pick 1 for finishing bottom, and the first Scully compo pick comes directly after where the Demons finish. There is your pick 2.
If they finish bottom, no-one can outbid them for Jack Viney, which means they can use their 2nd round pick to get him.
The second Scully compo pick comes in between the picks of the 9th and 8th placed teams. 14-ish.
So if they finish last they will have picks 1, 2, 14 and Jack Viney (2nd rounder). Luckily for us they can't draft and develop talent very well.
what do mean by the highlighted part wayne?
surely if someone bids their first round pick then Melbourne must use their first round pick on him?
What happens if someone bids their 1st pick on him just to try and stuff over Melbourne? What if Melbourne say "okay then m8. you can have him" only for club trying to stuff over Melbourne to say they don't want him anymore?
Then the other club gets him. From my understanding, if Melbourne have say Pick 1, 2 and 13, if a club bids their pick 3-12 then Melbourne would need to use their pick 13 on him, or their mid first round pick???
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Melbourne have recruited poorly and are paying the price for it. Harwick was a very good player. Not only intelligent but hard at the ball. Maybe I am being a bit hard but Neeld was a pretty poor player and would not command the respect of the senior players. Furthermore when you have got an accomplished coach like Malthouse above you it is always going to make you look better than you are. The culture at Melbourne stinks because they tanked.
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What happens if someone bids their 1st pick on him just to try and stuff over Melbourne? What if Melbourne say "okay then m8. you can have him" only for club trying to stuff over Melbourne to say they don't want him anymore?
i doubt you would be able to retract your bid once the auction is finished.
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From my understanding, if Melbourne have say Pick 1, 2 and 13, if a club bids their pick 3-12 then Melbourne would need to use their pick 13 on him, or their mid first round pick???
It's next pick. In that scenario, Melbourne would have to use 13. If Melbourne had 2 and 3, and say GWS had 1 and then nominated pick 1, then Melbourne would be forced to use pick 2. It's why someone needs to nominate a first round for Daniher. That way I don't think the Bummers will have a pick until late second round (unless they trade into one) and we all effectively move along in the order. I think they're pretty committed to getting him anyway.
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RIP Melb.
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Tasmania / NT Demons
The list does not seem to have good balance. Best two players are 31 and 29. One of the few senior players pick 3 is havin a laugh.
High draft picks have not played many games cook strauss fitzpatrick
Blease
Yet I remember the last three times they have beaten us
Round 4 2010, Round 19 2010 and Round 14 last year they claimed they were still well ahead of us and we were two years behind them in terms of development.
Fast forward 20 rounds and since then they have had 2 wins
One by 21 points to Port in Marrara in Round 17 and a 5 goal win against GC at the G in the penultimate Round last year. Hardly shattering stuff.
Then include three 100+ point defeats to Geelong 186 West Coast 108 Sydney 101
Three 10 goal plus defeats but less than 100
Five defeats by more than 40 points and less than 60.
You can tank all you like but no leadership no heart no passion no system no integrity no toughness leads to failure of the hardest order and leaves way too few to carry the can with the majority just standing around and letting things crumble down around them.
I can remember after our Round 7 loss to Adelaide in 2010 the papers were equating us to Fitzroy in 1996 yet I think it is more accurate equating that to Melbourne. At least we have members, supporters, character and passion (for a long time just in the stands at least)
Furthermore I can say that at no time have we fallen to Melbourne's diabolical depths and we have sunk very low in the last 30 years.
They can't do any worse than following us but unfortunantely for Mark Neeld it will take more than 2 years as they still have to cull the impotent and disinterested senior core who it may take 2 seasons to cull. At least we had a mass of retirements and delistings at the end of 2009 to reinvigorate the list and start the rebuild.
Yet even some of their picks since the current rebuild in 2007 are failing to make the grade or bring a level of consistency that can sustain a successful AFL career.
Can the Dees survive 5 more years with no finals and more importantly without their spiritual leader in the late Jimmy Stynes?
Sad state of affars for the ski chalet kids.
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Melb are no longer able to hide from the reality of how incompetent they've been for so very long.
They have no one to hide behind now and throw in the fact the media are no longer willing to ignore how pathetic they are then we have the current circus that is the MFC
Neeld can say what he likes and hope things turn around but it is going to take them another 3-5 years of rebuilding because they have drafted poorly, have poor administration and despite having no debt they still rely on AFL handouts to break even
Put all that together and I just don't think they have time on their side and quite frankly I really don't care ;D
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I would love to see Gaz take some responsibility which includes his role there last year and accept the club is a basket case rather than sit there and talk the talk on other clubs
As for the Dees I'm sitting where you sit WP: who cares. Better them than us. :lol :rollin :lol
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Melb are no longer able to hide from the reality of how incompetent they've been for so very long.
They have no one to hide behind now and throw in the fact the media are no longer willing to ignore how pathetic they are then we have the current circus that is the MFC
Neeld can say what he likes and hope things turn around but it is going to take them another 3-5 years of rebuilding because they have drafted poorly, have poor administration and despite having no debt they still rely on AFL handouts to break even
Put all that together and I just don't think they have time on their side and quite frankly I really don't care ;D
:thumbsup
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Rumors grimes wants to come to punt road.
Along with 40 odd teammates.
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I am certain they are tanking Neil Craig is a great behind the scenes asset and think he is prepared to eat humble pie for a year or 2 when there massive pool of talent finally does come together they will be scary for most teams i think that they could be playing finals as early as 2014 they are definately holding back . I am actually more perplexed about norths progress this year they really seem to have taken the foot off the pedal as far as progress goes they were about par with us last year and now i find we have completely overtaken them and they have the most favourable draw and i cannot for the life of me see them making the eight...
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Rumors grimes wants to come to punt road.
Along with 40 odd teammates.
well they can all stay there apart from Trengove ;D
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I am certain they are tanking Neil Craig is a great behind the scenes asset and think he is prepared to eat humble pie for a year or 2
Only 2? More like 6.
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Heard Scott Lucas on SEN say Neeld taking crap when he said this remark