One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => View from the Outer => Topic started by: one-eyed on July 31, 2012, 01:02:39 AM
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Tanking bombshell
By Jason Phelan
10:05 PM Mon 30 Jul, 2012
FORMER Melbourne midfielder Brock McLean has sensationally revealed he left the Demons for Carlton because he felt the club wasn't trying to win games during the latter stages of the 2009 season.
McLean, 26, dropped the bombshell on FoxFooty's On The Couch on Monday night.
The onballer played 94 games for Melbourne before crossing to Carlton ahead of the 2010 season in exchange for the No.11 pick at the 2009 NAB AFL Draft - a decision he came to because he was unhappy with the direction the club was taking.
"Circumstances that happened in the second half of the year (2009) never really sat well with me," McLean said.
"They don't call it tanking, we would call it 'experimenting' or whatever it was. It just went against everything I was taught as a kid, taught as a footballer and as a person."
Pressed on whether he felt Melbourne wasn't totally committed to winning, McLean replied, "Definitely. I think you'd have to be 'Blind Freddy' not to figure that one out."
The Demons finished at the bottom of the ladder at the end of the 2009 season and received a priority pick at the national draft, which they used to select Tom Scully first overall, and then used the No.2 pick to select current captain Jack Trengove.
"When I sat down with [then coach] Dean Bailey, when I made my decision [to leave], I brought that up with him," McLean continued.
"I told him what I really thought and we were both on the same page. I really felt for 'Bails' because he was put in an uncomfortable position."
McLean doesn't believe Bailey, who was ultimately sacked after a 186-point thrashing at the hands of Geelong last season, was the architect of the club's 2009 strategy.
Asked if he felt the coach received pressure from above he replied; "I would have thought so, yeah."
McLean, once viewed as a future Melbourne captain, said he decided to leave the club instead of speak out against a situation he felt strongly about because he didn't want to create an 'us versus them in terms of the team versus the head office' scenario.
The Demons have struggled again this season and will miss the finals for the sixth year in succession, which McLean feels is a consequence of the strategy that caused him to leave the club
"You can't create a good culture by going out and experimenting and trying to get draft picks and lose games of football," he said.
"I just think that goes against everything that you want to do."
http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/143079/default.aspx
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gee, a player gets the poos because he doesnt like trying his guts out every week only to have the coaches undermine his efforts by deliberately loosing.
Who'd have thought?
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Love the irony
Who does he play for now???
Ooh that's right Carlton
What a tool
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In a state of total shock over this
Can't believe it really happened
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Scandalous.
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Are they going to impeach Nixon oops I mean Bailey oops I mean McMahon oops I mean McLean? :lol :rollin :lol
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Seems they tanked for Scully it would be quite funny if they took those compo picks away and AFL forced them to use first rounder on Viney. :lol Those stuffwit supporters will pack it in. All their excitement gone for the year.
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Dees ‘didn't want to win': Brown
Mark Stevens and Jay Clark
From: Herald Sun
August 01, 2012
NATHAN Brown sensed the contest felt a little "strange" as he stood at full-forward on that fateful day in Round 18, 2009.
But it did not hit the Richmond forward until he filed into the rooms a few minutes after teammate Jordan McMahon sunk Melbourne with a last-gasp goal.
"You don't realise it when you're out there playing . . . it's only when you get in to the rooms after the game and you're told of all the moves," Brown said yesterday.
"Jade Rawlings was the coach and he was pretty disappointed with the way we played.
"He said, 'You just nearly got beaten by a side that didn't want to win'.
"He basically said we were kidding ourselves."
Rawlings, caretaker coach of the Tigers after Terry Wallace's departure, ironically is now a highly-rated assistant coach at Melbourne - the same club under the gun for its "tanking" tactics that day.
Brown, an elusive, 182cm forward, found himself marked by lumbering 199cm ruckman Paul Johnson.
In other bizarre moves, Melbourne's most consistent ball-winner, James McDonald, was banished to defence to guard small forward Robin Nahas.
Classy forwards Russell Robertson and Colin Sylvia were playing in the VFL.
Despite his obvious talents, Robertson was on the outer as "experimentation" went into full swing.
Yesterday he gave a firm "no comment" when contacted by the Herald Sun.
Defenders James Frawley and Matthew Warnock were also pushed forward for much of the day in an utterly baffling move.
Brock McLean, the man at at the centre of the latest tanking allegations, did not play.
But former Melbourne ruckman John Meesen, who was at the club between 2008-2010, confirmed there were some odd moves.
"You looked at how the team was lined up and you thought, 'Hang on, this is different'," Meesen said.
"Forwards were down back, the backs were in the midfield and the midfielders were up forward.
"For example, you saw Matthew Bate in the backline. It was just a different strategy, or look, in a game that we should have won.
"But the club was trying to rebuild and you could understand that it needed to play players who were going to be around for the next 10 years."
Brown, in fact, paid credit to the intensity of the Demons that day.
"The club might not have wanted to win the game, but the players out there were giving everything," he said.
Three weeks later, against St Kilda at the MCG, Melbourne's strange positional moves continued.
When the Demons found themselves three goals in front in the last round of the year, James Frawley was taken off Nick Riewoldt.
Liam Jurrah and Aaron Davey were sent to the bench and Nick Dal Santo ran free without a tagger.
Losing enabled Melbourne to snare draft picks No.1 and 2 - Tom Scully and Jack Trengove.
Some might say karma hit the Dees when Scully left, but they have two juicy first-round picks in this year's draft as compensation.
The carrot to lose was too big. The Demons, as sacked coach Dean Bailey once said, did what they had to do.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/afl/more-news/dees-didnt-want-to-win-brown/story-e6frf9jf-1226439817831
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The media is saying that it was people at the top who told Bailey to tank
People are only naming Schwab
But I ask what about the board? You can't tell me they didn't know and if they did there seems to be one name people are refusing to mention.... :whistle
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Melbourne tanked for Scully. Scully leaves and Melbourne get 2 x 1st Round National Draft Picks in the 2012 National Draft. Including their own pick they have 3 first round picks coming up. Clubs who didnt tanked have been well and truly screwed. The only real option for the AFL is to find them Guilty and take their 2 compensation off them. To do something else is an afront to the principles of the game every other club and every supporter of every club that has never tanked or was never good enough to tank.
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The media is saying that it was people at the top who told Bailey to tank
People are only naming Schwab
But I ask what about the board? You can't tell me they didn't know and if they did there seems to be one name people are refusing to mention.... :whistle
I don't like to speak ill of the dead, but I've always been convinced that the decision came right from the very top.
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People say that tanking had effected the clubs culture
I say it had nothing to do with it
The culling of JM had more of an effect on the club
They did what they had to do and now have 3 top 10 picks.
End of story
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this is going great guns, its about time pandora's box
was opened.
as for Melbourne, Scully never wanted to be there
alas along come GWS offering truckloads of $$$$
perfect opportunity to escape a club that lost deliberately
to obtain his services.
lets hope the rest unfolds for the MFC and shows them
up to be what they are CHEATS.
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In a state of total shock over this
Can't believe it really happened
Same. Good thing Brock brought it to our attention otherwise no one would of noticed.
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People say that tanking had effected the clubs culture
I say it had nothing to do with it
The culling of JM had more of an effect on the club
They did what they had to do and now have 3 top 10 picks.
End of story
I am convinced that people who think like this have played very little competitive sport, of were not really that competitive when they did.
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People say that tanking had effected the clubs culture
I say it had nothing to do with it
The culling of JM had more of an effect on the club
They did what they had to do and now have 3 top 10 picks.
End of story
I am convinced that people who think like this have played very little competitive sport, of were not really that competitive when they did.
Melbourne are absoloutely pooe tanking had nothing to do with.
Richmond see above, you saying we tanked too. We were not smart enough to tank instead we blew draft pick after draft pick on players like Brown, Sugar as well as wasting picks i.e 2005
If we tanked we wouldve screwed it up and used the pick on spuds like Mcmlovin instead of guns like Ward and Selwood.
Lets take the Blues then shall we. Everyone is convinced they tanked as i am.
Pretty bad effect on the playing group that has had. Since they recruited Kruzer its only been north for them on the ladder.
How about the Magpies when they tanked for Pendles and Thomas. Gee they have suffered ever since havent they
Smart clubs do it well
Edited: no need for the gutter comment
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lol.....you would be happy to swap Cotch for Kruezer then ? :lol
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lol.....you would be happy to swap Cotch for Kruezer then ? :lol
Not the point mate of course I wouldn't like In glad we got Dusty and not the other 2.
Martello is suggesting the reason why clubs who tank are are so poo is because they tanked and it affected the group
I disagree
Good clubs do it well e.g Eagles, Pies and in years to come maybe Melbourne too
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no he's saying that melbourne tanked and that the culture that deliberately losing garners will be one that we have seen at melbourne.
Lets revisit what malhouse said about melbourne and the task at hand for neeld
He(Mark Neeld) is starting from scratch, make no mistake about it. Melbourne, inside the football club, were not a football club, it was all about anything else but football, I can assure you.
Now while that, coming from the great saviour of all things in the world, mich malthouse seems to pretty much sum up where melbourne were at, i understand that people make up their mind and rarely change it regardless of what is presented before them.
all I was saying is that people who think that deliberately losing cant have a negative affect on the culture of a football club, probably havent spent too much time in a competitive sporting environment.
It's the only explaination i can come up with as why they would have a lack of understanding of such things.
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Jim Stynes a brownlow medalist
John Worsfold
Mick Malthouse
Rattan
Sticks
All of the above played a big part in getting the best players for their footy club through one form of tanking
And they all played competitive football
MM comments well his in the media and his role is to stir up controversy
I would argue that their recruitment and development has been very very average, hence why they are in the spot they are in
Morton
Blease
Watts
Strauss
They have completely screwed their draft selections up and I would argue their 2008 draft was a lot worse than our 2004 botched job
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oh, i forgot that every club that ever finished last did so only because they tanked and there is no other explanation.
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I noticed on AFL360 last night that David King was being pressed by Robbo about whether he thought that we tanked in that last game against St. Kilda.
He just said that Polak dropped a mark near the end of the game that he'd taken 100 times out of 100 before that, so we weren't tanking.
I think since the late 90's when teams started to realise the value of the draft picks and that picking good players wasn't such a guessing game, teams have tanked.
Melbourne's tanking was just so obvious compared to other sides. Ruckmen at full back, Brad Miller rucking, halving the amount of interchanges they'd usually have, players that were on fire and playing well getting benched or moved to the other end of the ground, it wasn't very well done.
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I noticed on AFL360 last night that David King was being pressed by Robbo about whether he thought that we tanked in that last game against St. Kilda.
He just said that Polak dropped a mark near the end of the game that he'd taken 100 times out of 100 before that, so we weren't tanking.
I think since the late 90's when teams started to realise the value of the draft picks and that picking good players wasn't such a guessing game, teams have tanked.
Melbourne's tanking was just so obvious compared to other sides. Ruckmen at full back, Brad Miller rucking, halving the amount of interchanges they'd usually have, players that were on fire and playing well getting benched or moved to the other end of the ground, it wasn't very well done.
Nothing they have done for the last 50 years has been much good :lol
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Nathan Brown on Triple M this arvo said that in their review of that game against Melbourne they certainly perceived Melbourne as a team trying to lose.
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I noticed on AFL360 last night that David King was being pressed by Robbo about whether he thought that we tanked in that last game against St. Kilda.
He just said that Polak dropped a mark near the end of the game that he'd taken 100 times out of 100 before that, so we weren't tanking.
I think since the late 90's when teams started to realise the value of the draft picks and that picking good players wasn't such a guessing game, teams have tanked.
Melbourne's tanking was just so obvious compared to other sides. Ruckmen at full back, Brad Miller rucking, halving the amount of interchanges they'd usually have, players that were on fire and playing well getting benched or moved to the other end of the ground, it wasn't very well done.
Yep it was about as obvious as an Olympic badmitton player :yep.
Still amusing McLean left a club because it was tanking to go to Carlton who had been tanking and had been caught salary cap cheating :wallywink
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oh, i forgot that every club that ever finished last did so only because they tanked and there is no other explanation.
There you go unable to provide anything descent to say
It seems you have an issue reading Ali
I said collingwood, eagles, melbourne. Ooh and Carlton but hey I guess they didn't tank either
Didn't mention any other team
Eagles finish bottom then wow who would've thought straight up they go
No point discussing with you, you repeat the same crap over and over
Stick to your footy tipping thread
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With the Dees under investigation for tanking, they were forced to win today :wallywink.
LOL Plough today on TAC Cup Future Stars saying they could've had Martin instead of Scully and that it's fine having all these early picks but it's what you do with them that counts. Terry knows that from first hand experience :doh.
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Melbourne grilled over losses as tanking investigation intensifies
Jay Clark
From: Herald Sun
August 11, 2012
THE AFL has zeroed in on former Melbourne officials as its tanking investigation intensifies.
The league's integrity chief, Brett Clothier, has interrogated former coaches and key football figures amid claims the club had a strategy to lose games to improve its draft picks in 2008-09.
The AFL has kept quiet the names of those it wanted to interview as part of the tanking probe.
But the Herald Sun understood those quizzed included former development coach Scott West, ex-recruiting chief Barry Prendergast and former senior coach Dean Bailey.
Clothier has also been in contact with current Melbourne staff who worked under Bailey in the football department.
While Bailey, Prendergast and West have all left the club, they were asked to detail their understanding of the Demons' on-field strategy at the time and whether the club deliberately set out to lose games or observed any questionable coaching moves.
In a warning to clubs, AFL chief executive Andrew Demetriou said any club found guilty of tanking would be severely punished.
The autobiography of former president Jim Stynes, due for release on August 22, was expected to shed light on the club's on-field philosophy.
The book, My Journey, outlined Stynes' view on the tanking issue and the circumstances that led to Bailey's departure, after a humiliating defeat to Geelong last year.
The AFL re-opened its probe into tanking after former Demon Brock McLean said he left the club partly because he was at odds with its on-field intentions.
"You can't create a good culture by going out and experimenting and trying to get draft picks and losing games of football," McLean told Fox Footy's On The Couch.
Clothier's interviews with the former Dees officials and coaching staff were believed have ranged from 30 minutes to an hour. The results of the investigation could be known as early as next week.
The AFL has long denied tanking exists but has said that it wanted to get to the bottom of the allegations.
Bailey said he happily experimented with players' positions to help their development in his time as coach.
"I had no hesitation at all in the first two years in ensuring the club was well placed for draft picks," Bailey said after being sacked last year.
"I was asked to do the best thing by the Melbourne Football Club and I did it. I put players in different positions."
http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/melbourne-grilled-over-losses-as-tanking-investigation-intensifies/story-fnelctok-1226447893798
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New Dees tank claim
Michael Warner, Mark Robinson
From: Herald Sun
August 17, 2012
THE MATCH - Melbourne v Sydney Round 17 Manuka Oval, Canberra July 26, 2009 OUT: Mark Jamar (quad), Brock McLean (knee), Jack Grimes (back), Brad Green (leg), Russell Robertson (dropped), James Frawley (back) and Neville Jetta (flu). IN: Kyle Cheney, Michael Newton, Paul Johnson, Shane Valenti, Matthew Whelan, Brad Miller and Jordie McKenzie.
A NEW suspect game has emerged as the AFL probes tanking claims against Melbourne.
The Demons lost to Sydney in Canberra in Round 17, 2009, after making seven changes from the previous week.
Six players were listed as injured or ill and another was dropped.
Figures connected to the club have told the Herald Sun they were privy to a conversation with a senior Melbourne official the night before the match which indicated steps had been taken to reduce the prospect of a win.
The conversation at a Canberra hotel centred around concerns the Demons would win too many games in 2009, costing them a priority pick at the national draft.
"We'll be right, we've made eight changes," the Melbourne official is alleged to have said.
Associates of the club have said they would consider submitting to formal interview as part of the AFL's tanking probe.
A Herald Sun investigation has revealed:
* THEN Melbourne captain James McDonald has been interviewed by the AFL and denies tanking took place.
* ONE of Melbourne's club doctors from 2009 said "blind Freddy could tell the team wasn't picked for optimal performance" late in the season.
* TWO of the seven changes for the Canberra match were made after team selection.
* MELBOURNE'S interchange rotations fell dramatically in the match and other late-season games.
The Demons would not comment yesterday when asked about the Canberra game or the tanking investigation.
Asked about the Manuka match last night, an AFL spokesman said: "We are not providing a running commentary on the investigation or confirming who or how many people we have spoken to".
The AFL inquiry, led by chief integrity officer Brett Clothier, has involved interviews with a number of past and present Demons officials.
They include 2008-2011 senior coach Dean Bailey, innovations coach Dave Dunbar, part-time development coach Scott West, recruiting manager Barry Prendergast and McDonald.
Vice-president Don McLardy, football operations manager Chris Connolly, chief executive Cameron Schwab and assistant coaches Sean Wellman, Mark Williams and Josh Mahoney are also on the AFL's interview list.
At the centre of the investigation are questions about Melbourne's selection and game-day strategy.
Tanking occurs when a team deliberately sets out to lose games.
The tanking furore has previously centred on the Melbourne' narrow Round 18 loss to Richmond, where Tiger Jordan McMahon kicked a match-winning goal after the siren, and the Round 22 loss to St Kilda, involving several puzzling interchange and positional moves.
In the Swans match in Canberra in Round 17, Melbourne used their interchange bench 67 times - down from their season average of 85.
Melbourne's five lowest interchange totals of the year occurred from rounds 17-22.
In Round 18 it was 47, their lowest of the season. In Round 19 it was 49, in Round 21 it was 56, and in Round 22 it was 73.
But in Round 20 against Fremantle, which the Demons won at the MCG by 63 points, the interchange numbers climbed to 99, their third highest of the season.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/afl/new-dees-tank-claim/story-e6frf9io-1226452166769
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No doubt they're guilty. I wonder what the penalty will be?
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$500K and stripped of Scully concessions
plus they have to remove that gay collar from their jumpers and hand in their ski passes for 2 years
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Slap with a wet lettuce leaf.
The AFL rules were ripe for abuse. Melbourne not the only team to take advantage of overly generous concessions.
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$500K and stripped of Scully concessions
plus they have to remove that gay collar from their jumpers and hand in their ski passes for 2 years
This should be the penalty but they wont cop anything IMHO. The idiots wasted their picks and everyone at the AFL probably feels sorry for them.
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the cypriot dictator scoffed at suggestions that sides had tanked. He may now feel aggrieved and come down hard on them.
I hope the cheating slime feel his wrath.
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Any team guilty of tanking should have the following penalties applied:
• All premierships should be stripped (West Coast & Collingwood)
• All players drafted should be considered free agents and traded for free to Tigers
• The clubs should be fined heavily and monies given to Tigers to buy players
• Carlton & Melbourne should be made to wear jumpers with Cheaters on the back
• Demetriou should be fined for favoring North and made to resign
• Essendon should wear the logo "lying sacks of poo" on their jumpers
Sorry - got a bit carried away with the last couple but can't be bothered changing it
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Nothing will happen because Melbourne didn't break any rules and they weren't the only club tanking. Carlton were happy to lose the "Kreuzer Cup" game against Melbourne in 2007 while the Pies put most of their senior players in cotton wool for the second half of 2005 to gain a top of the first round priority pick to grab both Thomas and Pendlebury.
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deliberately setting out to lose is breaking the rules, even if it is bringing the game in disrepute.
does boxing have a specific law about taking a dive?
does badmitton have a law making it illegal to deliberately hit the cock into the net so as to lose.
setting out to deliberately lose is match fixing and is illegal, as well as immoral.
andy d is still saying it doesnt happen, and it is difficult to prove so he will be happy to have his stance vindicated.
if the enquiry shows him to be wrong then melbourne will deserve every bit of wrath he sets upon them making him look bad.
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Did they deliberately set out to lose, al? .... definitely!
Is there sufficiently hard evidence such as a recording of or an email from a high ranking Melbourne official saying they wanted to deliberately throw games? .... no there isn't. All the official lines were about "experimenting", "developing younger players to build towards the following year", etc...
The rule changes making it harder now to get a priority pick is an admittance by the AFL that clubs were abusing the draft system rules. However the AFL will never admit that just as they won't admit Melbourne were deliberately losing. The AFL will go through the charades of concern and then do nothing as usual as it's not in the AFL's interest to ping a club over this now. Nail one and they would need to nail the others (interview Libba over his time at Carlton where he claimed they tanked). The AFL aren't going to open a Pandora's box.
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yeah, the crux of the matter is getting enough evidence to prove it, and like you i think they will cover it over, unless they happen to turn up enough damning evidence they risk having their own lack of integrity exposed.
The problem is that much of what is just smart list management. IE rsting senior player that are carrying injuries or putting them in for surgery once your season is shot is labelled as tanking, but it doesnt mean that losing is the reason for doing it. It happened before the draft system was in place. Even noe we have a lot of people saying that our players carrying injuries should be pastured for next year. They are not wanting this because they want us to lose, but because they see it as the best long term action as far as managing these players.
The libba one is interesting. He said that at the end of the season Carlton played players that were not up to AFL standard.
Perhaps he is right, it was a deliberate ploy to lose.
One the other hand, for one, that is just his personal asessment of the players and you only have to read through the forums to see that there can be many different views of players.
Nor is it a silly proposal that once your season is gone to give players in the firing line a shot to see if they can show anything that warrants another year on the list.
It's basically hard to prove either way in most cases, yet people want to see every possible tanking situation as just that, even though there are other legitimate possibilities.
(it reminds me of those who try to tell you the moon landing was faked. They cant give any evidence that it actually was, just tell you how it possibly was, so because it was possible,therefore it must have been)
BTW, the AFL should interview Malthouse and ask what he meant with his comments on Melbourne when he was asked about the task facing Neeld. It was pretty obvious that his relationship with Neeld allowed him an insight into what was going on at melbourne
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IMO
Putting players in for surgery early is not tanking
Playing fringe players to see if they offer anything for next season is not tanking
Having an overarching club policy from the beginning of a season to win as few games as possible is tanking
Playing players out of position to maximise the chances of a loss is tanking
Every club is guilty of the first two, and I have no doubt Melbourne and to a lesser extent Carlton are guilty of the last two. No doubt whatsoever.