One-Eyed Richmond Forum

Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: TigerLand on April 12, 2014, 12:06:18 AM

Title: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: TigerLand on April 12, 2014, 12:06:18 AM
Whats the bigger issue?

Crap players
Crap coaching
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: tigerwoods on April 12, 2014, 12:31:51 AM
Coaching. very evident that they have engrained a mentality within the playing group that if they simply wait their turn in the AFL queue, they will get a crack at glory. UTTER BS
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: Judge Roughneck on April 12, 2014, 12:32:54 AM
The list has not been stronger in the last 20 (15?) years has it
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: The Big Richo on April 12, 2014, 12:55:49 AM
This list was just out of the top 4 last year. They have the capacity to be at that level.

Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: Smokey on April 13, 2014, 09:31:06 AM
C.   Both of the above.
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: Jackstar is back!!! on April 13, 2014, 09:46:49 AM
Wouldn't Pee on some of the coaches
Please spare me
Danny Daly  ::)
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: tony_montana on April 13, 2014, 03:43:41 PM
C.   Both of the above.

 :yep
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: Golfprotiger on April 13, 2014, 04:13:54 PM
Is it just me or has Chocco not been on the bench as much?
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: Hellenic Tiger on April 13, 2014, 05:04:26 PM
The fish rots at the head. Coaching has been downhill.
Dimma seems more happy appeasing media when he does it than until Friday finally admitting he has a problem that is more serious than he wanted to lead on due to marketing memberships.
Its all an ever choking spiral.
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: Eat_em_Alive on April 13, 2014, 05:30:45 PM
Ive chosen the first option: though I didnt like the way it was worded
IMV, the buck has to stop with the coach, players letting us down week after week like vickery, grigg, shed, houli dont have to be picked each and every week by the coach. In a perfect world players in the reserves have to step up and play like they want to be promoted but ffs if we have so many poor players like those mentioned, drop them and promote the next best available. (Youth)
Absence of cambpo, leppa I would imagine would hurt us. Regardless of how those on here viewed them I think it has made a differenceto us possibly in game day preparation preparation, and aslo assisting dimma.
Does anyone else think this would impact us? When you lose ppl in the workplace they force you to absorb the workload without replacing the ppl, this would be same scenario yes/no?
Fwd line coach Mark Williams, wtf is he doing? Fwd has been a joke last 3 seasons (well more so than before)

The players are all playing poorly, is it they have a problem with the coach, the game plan or the non contributers that get picked every week. That is the question I would be asking......

Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: Judge Roughneck on April 13, 2014, 06:05:38 PM
Is it just me or has Chocco not been on the bench as much?

He's got no fire wanted saints gig
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: WilliamPowell on April 13, 2014, 06:25:01 PM
C.   Both of the above.

X 3
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: YellowandBlackBlood on April 13, 2014, 06:34:09 PM
Is it just me or has Chocco not been on the bench as much?
Was on the bench on Friday night.  Didn't help much.....
I really think it's playing personnel.  We haven't had many injuries over the last few years and so haven't had to put much time into developing kids like O'Hanlon, MacKintosh, MacDonough etc etc in the seniors.  Suddenly we have had key personnel injured or out of form and we cannot use any of these guys.
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: Stripes on April 13, 2014, 08:00:00 PM
I picked option one because I don't feel that we currently have a Plan B. I think the game plan has been nullified over the last few weeks with teams creating scums around the contest and then manning up on our outside/switch players. As a result the players have lost confidence and are now uncertain what to do. Its fine to say that we need to work harder but when the other team is working equally hard and we can not find a way through we need to find alternative actions. I think the coaches will get there and the team will grow as a result but unless we can win 2 of the next three, I think finals is a very optimistic goal this year. Basically we have been jumped early by a new style of football which naturally opposes our style and the type of players we have.

We're not alone though
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: (•))(©™ on April 13, 2014, 08:07:34 PM
Real depth is the reason.

Unable to cover the loss of lids rance and Maric.

It's worth mentioning also, the inability to adapt to structural changes.
I put it down to  immaturity as men.
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: Mr Magic on April 13, 2014, 08:14:54 PM
X 4

Bit of this and a bit of that.
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: (•))(©™ on April 13, 2014, 08:21:40 PM
Darren Hardwit refuses to adapt his approach.

He's made a plan and expects guys to adapt to his idealistic approach to modern footy.

Basically he's run out of ideas.
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: YellowandBlackBlood on April 13, 2014, 08:34:13 PM
Darren Hardwit refuses to adapt his approach.

He's made a plan and expects guys to adapt to his idealistic approach to modern footy.

Basically he's run out of ideas.
Isn't the job of a coach to have a clear plan for the players?  The same plan that got us into the finals last year?  First time since 2001?

The problem isn't the plan so much as the execution of it.  The players have been poor in executing it. 
Best example is the Bulldogs game.  At half time Dimma challenged the group and asked them if they wanted to throw out the plan they have been practicing since he got there or apply it properly.  The guys said the latter and came out and kicked 6 goals to 2 in the third and then last quarter. Sure we lost but that was from our poor first half.

NO plan works if nobody shows greater desire than the opposition, refuses to chase, tackle, block for your team mate, stand up for your team mate etc etc.

I can bet you Dimma doesn't tell his players not to do all those things.

So where I think Dimma is failing is MOTIVATING the playing group.  That is something that can change as he hasn't lost the group yet from what I hear.  Once he loses the group it's time for him to pack his bags but we are nowhere near that point yet.
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: (•))(©™ on April 13, 2014, 08:57:21 PM
Name one club that wouldn't relish the opportunity to play Richmond.

Nine. Not even bottom ladder clubs.

Every club sees Richmond as a highly winnable game because of the soft mental breaking point of our players. Keep the pressure on them and they'll go into an insipid frenzy.
Maybe it's because they're second guessing the coach.
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: YellowandBlackBlood on April 13, 2014, 09:00:46 PM
Name one club that wouldn't relish the opportunity to play Richmond.

Nine. Not even bottom ladder clubs.

Every club sees Richmond as a highly winnable game because of the soft mental breaking point of our players. Keep the pressure on them and they'll go into an insipid frenzy.
Maybe it's because they're second guessing the coach.
I agree but that is more on the playing group than the coach.  They are a bunch of soft ****s!
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: (•))(©™ on April 13, 2014, 09:08:14 PM
A good coach has a plan that evolves.

He doesn't.
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: YellowandBlackBlood on April 13, 2014, 09:10:44 PM
A good coach has a plan that evolves.

He doesn't.
Maybe he will be starting to realise that and will adjust accordingly.
I still can't see any game plan working without 100% effort from the players. 
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: Stripes on April 13, 2014, 10:52:17 PM
Chicken and egg really but it all starts with the coach conceiving a game plan that his players can execute to be successful. Dimma had that with the game plan he helped create at Hawthorn. Now Hawthorn still use this game plan extremely successfully. Why can't we? The more I think about it using that logic the more I would suggest that it is our players that are not following the plan successfully.

The real problem is is that our team has changed from last year through injuries. Injuries have effected our key play makers, our structure and our form. Couple this with the coaches experimenting with different combinations and I think that mucking around with the different ingredients has not produced a better recipe.

The coaches need to respond here to motivate the players, create counter plans and figure out exactly where the problems are and rectify them. Guesswork, indecision and finger pointing will accomplish nothing.

This is Dimma's most important moment in his career imo. Lets see how he and the players respond.  :juggle
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: (•))(©™ on April 13, 2014, 11:06:13 PM
Maybe cos he had FA to really do with it
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: Francois Jackson on April 14, 2014, 01:18:15 AM
Maybe cos he had FA to really do with it

Don't get it mate?

He has everything to do with it if you ask me. Injuries look at how the better clubs cope with injuries

Not us though. We are now finding ourselves getting games into the kids, something we should have been doing slowly throughout the last year, instead of persisting with Newman, Edwards and co
Cats. Burberry, horlin smith, caddy, smedts
Hawks. Hill, Langford, cheney



April 2015 dimma will find out what pressure is going to feel like. Miss finals and his finished
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: (•))(©™ on April 14, 2014, 02:02:40 AM
FA to do with Hawthorns game plan.....
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: Francois Jackson on April 14, 2014, 05:51:31 AM
FA to do with Hawthorns game plan.....

Got it

Probably onto something too
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: lamington on April 14, 2014, 11:40:10 AM
I'm going to pin this on the players because I don't see the midfield unit running both ways. Other thing is we concede a lot of goals through basic skill errors and turnovers. Can't blame that on the coach if the players misfire a handball or kick it straight to the opposition.

It's never mutually exclusive but if I were to portion blame  I would go 80% players 20% coach.

I agree we do need a degree of a plan B but if you look at 2013 Freo and Hawthorn, they pretty much went in with just a plan A. The difference is that they are able to force their opponents to play under their terms through putting in 4 quarter efforts. We on the other hand have a tendency to either take the foot of the pedal or take 2 quarters to realise we are playing for premiership points. I blame the coach only for not pulling a Führer Malthouse and sending a player to the VFL for being poo. 

 
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: 1980 I Was There on April 14, 2014, 11:55:24 AM
C.   Both of the above.

X 3
x 4
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: Eat_em_Alive on April 14, 2014, 11:56:28 AM
Good post Lam
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: WilliamPowell on April 14, 2014, 12:36:33 PM
I'm going to pin this on the players because I don't see the midfield unit running both ways. Other thing is we concede a lot of goals through basic skill errors and turnovers. Can't blame that on the coach if the players misfire a handball or kick it straight to the opposition.

It's never mutually exclusive but if I were to portion blame  I would go 80% players 20% coach.

I agree we do need a degree of a plan B but if you look at 2013 Freo and Hawthorn, they pretty much went in with just a plan A. The difference is that they are able to force their opponents to play under their terms through putting in 4 quarter efforts. We on the other hand have a tendency to either take the foot of the pedal or take 2 quarters to realise we are playing for premiership points. I blame the coach only for not pulling a Führer Malthouse and sending a player to the VFL for being pooe.

 :clapping :clapping

 :bow
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: TigerRocket on April 14, 2014, 01:05:11 PM
Guys, I agree the stop start manner of plays is killing us but I cant get out of my mind we lost 2 quality coaches in Campbell and Leppitsch and replaced them with who???? Agreed we have injuries but the back half turnovers and poor mid field responsibility contribute to a very ordinary forward line. I just wish we had some tough nuts that put the opposition under tough physical pressure, maybe then the taggers would have more to consider than simply take Cotch out of the gamer!
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: WilliamPowell on April 14, 2014, 02:04:03 PM
Guys, I agree the stop start manner of plays is killing us but I cant get out of my mind we lost 2 quality coaches in Campbell and Leppitsch and replaced them with who???? Agreed we have injuries but the back half turnovers and poor mid field responsibility contribute to a very ordinary forward line. I just wish we had some tough nuts that put the opposition under tough physical pressure, maybe then the taggers would have more to consider than simply take Cotch out of the gamer!

Fair point but would argue that for his last 2 years at the Club Wayne Campbell did very little coaching. His role was leadership & opposition analysis. With leadership I am referring to developing programs for our leadership group and working with them to become better leaders. He also spent a helluva lot of time in the his last 12 months at the club putting together our VFL side. So really the last 2 year was more administration and very little hands on coaching
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: Stripes on April 14, 2014, 02:50:15 PM
Astbury has been good but he does limit our run from defense. Rance always like to get on his bike and run up the ground to provide an option. Dave still lacks confidence and so prefers to kick it long (that's why he had 100% efficiency last game). I would love to see Astbury take more risks and look for the shorter option because at the moment we desperately need better ball movement out of defense. Maybe moving Lids back until Rance returns could be another possibility to generate more transitional play.

One thing I do believe this has shown us Maric, Lids, Rance, King (fit) and Jackson (fit) are far more important to our structure/game plan than I would have believed.
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: Judge Roughneck on April 14, 2014, 03:11:32 PM
Dave got more rebound than chaplin
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: torch on April 14, 2014, 06:27:39 PM
Coaching Group.
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: Lozza on April 14, 2014, 06:45:53 PM
Can't remember at what stage it was against the pies but after Chaplin laid off to someone he just stopped dead in his tracks and offered no return option whatsoever. Watching Freo on the weekend they run in groups of three or four so always have options. In contrast at the moment we are continually isolated, simply just not doing the hard work. We all see this so the RFC coaches must see it yet nothing changes. If the players were in more traditional occupations not following instructions as often as they do would result in them joining the dole queue very quickly.
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: Tiger-Harted on April 14, 2014, 09:20:01 PM
I have loved this club through thick and thin - players come and go but the supporters always seem the same - instead of pointing fingers - have you asked what can you do about it?

It's not the players or the coaches - it's both groups...

Coaching group have game plan (it's not working but they have one) and yes it is fairly obvious they have not prepared the players well enough for 2014 - I believe it's a communication issue - they are trying to finesse the result - instead of demanding the results and having consequences... I'm all for the carrot and stick approach but we give too much carrot and not enough stick...

The playing group are good enough skill wise (we have seen them do it) but they only do it when it suits them... and they are smart enough they have the wool pulled over a lot of peoples eyes...

I will give you this - a lot of players we have don't seem to want to work hard enough:
Grigg - won't go for the hard ball or put his body on the line
Chaplin - is always to far off his man - gets most of his stats from opposition errors
Vickery - has no idea what he is capable of - he has the perfect physique - he should be breaking packs and making backmen tremble...
Grimes - is still vitually a newbie 5 years for 29 games - he needs someone to give him instruction (not Chappy)
Dea, Batchelor, Helbig, O'Hanlan - have never show any improvement (it's like having Wayne Shand back)

The rest of them have some potential (yes we are still a couple of players away from the big time) but they seem unmotivated - so why don't the rest of 63,000 members we are supposed to have turn up and we maybe able to light a fire under them... All three groups are under done Players, Coahes and Supporters - we all need to lift our game...
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: YellowandBlackBlood on April 14, 2014, 09:27:59 PM
Friend of mine heard Dimma explain the game plan against Collingwood (friend is a high up coterie member).  He was very specific about what the plan was and what Collingwood do.  A lot of research went into the plan. This was said before the game.
When the players began playing it's as if they ignored the whole plan.  Friend didn't think it was that hard to follow but required EFFORT from the players.
Unfortunately that just didn't come.
Dimma's blood must have been boiling in the box.......
That's why I think it's the playing group's fault.
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: tony_montana on April 14, 2014, 09:57:08 PM
No doubt a coach cant do anything about dumb unforced errors and basic dumb decision making, but having said that, a good coach weeds this out of the team in time. You don't see top coaches accept so many basic errors for long bc they get rid of the deadwood after giving players a fair and reasonable chance to prove themselves. We, on the other hand, seem to continue to give these said players games week in week out. That is very much a coaching problem

So in short its the playing group or parts of it first and foremost, but also the coaching group by not doing enough to improve or get rid of the deficiencies in a timely manner. There are players getting regular games who are very lucky to still be on an afl list imo.
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: WilliamPowell on April 15, 2014, 07:12:37 AM
Friend of mine heard Dimma explain the game plan against Collingwood (friend is a high up coterie member).  He was very specific about what the plan was and what Collingwood do.  A lot of research went into the plan. This was said before the game.
When the players began playing it's as if they ignored the whole plan.  Friend didn't think it was that hard to follow but required EFFORT from the players.
Unfortunately that just didn't come.
Dimma's blood must have been boiling in the box.......
That's why I think it's the playing group's fault.

Yep I was in that "briefing", though I don't think we are that "high up" in the coterie stakes  ;D

Anyway back the "briefing" yes he was very specific in what the plan was and what the players had to do. Yep they didn't do it

But he also said that we wouldn't put a hard tag on Pendlebury because you "wont stop him getting 20-25 possessions". Excuse me? Pendlebury is a star of the comp and we didn't go with the hard tag? Hard tag certainly worked on Cotchin. Please...massive error from the coaches box. Week after week he continues to play under performing favourites. What message is that sending the entire group? It's not the fault of those busting a gut to get an opportunity that he refuses to play them. But it is his fault that the likes of Vickery & Grigg wont chase or tackle because he allows then to do it, he doesn't make then accountable 

So for mine it is a combination of both.  Players are way ahead of themselves and the coaches outside of the issues with playing favourites have for whatever reason have got them playing slow footy. 

He, all the other coaches and the players need to start taking responsibility for the mess we find ourselves in. Every single one of them ....
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: YellowandBlackBlood on April 15, 2014, 07:32:08 AM
Friend of mine heard Dimma explain the game plan against Collingwood (friend is a high up coterie member).  He was very specific about what the plan was and what Collingwood do.  A lot of research went into the plan. This was said before the game.
When the players began playing it's as if they ignored the whole plan.  Friend didn't think it was that hard to follow but required EFFORT from the players.
Unfortunately that just didn't come.
Dimma's blood must have been boiling in the box.......
That's why I think it's the playing group's fault.

Yep I was in that "briefing", though I don't think we are that "high up" in the coterie stakes  ;D

Anyway back the "briefing" yes he was very specific in what the plan was and what the players had to do. Yep they didn't do it

But he also said that we wouldn't put a hard tag on Pendlebury because you "wont stop him getting 20-25 possessions". Excuse me? Pendlebury is a star of the comp and we didn't go with the hard tag? Hard tag certainly worked on Cotchin. Please...massive error from the coaches box. Week after week he continues to play under performing favourites. What message is that sending the entire group? It's not the fault of those busting a gut to get an opportunity that he refuses to play them. But it is his fault that the likes of Vickery & Grigg wont chase or tackle because he allows then to do it, he doesn't make then accountable 

So for mine it is a combination of both.  Players are way ahead of themselves and the coaches outside of the issues with playing favourites have for whatever reason have got them playing slow footy. 

He, all the other coaches and the players need to start taking responsibility for the mess we find ourselves in. Every single one of them ....
I agree in part. However, if the players foliowed the plan properly, they wouldn't have needed a hard tag......
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: TigerMonk on April 15, 2014, 08:14:57 AM
With injuries we lose structure which we dont have the players to come up & meet the role left void. We cannot rely on injured players as there is still 22 players out on that oval considered to be AFL players. We are not developing quick enough. We are missing players like a Tuck who opposition players have said they feared as his one purpose was to get the ball, Fight for it & always put his body on the line. He hurt opposition players in doing so. Jackson is another who does the same being aggressive. You only have to look at the leader who is prepared to lay into the opposition players with quick punches. You dont see that from many others. Forwards must crash the packs but where are our crumbers ??? they aint near them.  HUGE FAULT blame this on the coaching staff for not drilling this into them.
We carry players who are not prepared to put their bodies on the line & its as simple as that. We carry players who are not up to the task, We have players who are not fit enough because they lapsed over the summer while other clubs have prepared, While alot of Richmond players were not very active over the preseason games. You cannot prepare a season over the summer with people standing around nursing injures & egos. The fault lays with the playing group & its up to the staff to prepare them better. The players need to rise this weekend regardless who is out injured. The 22 need to all give 100% with nothing left in the tank & they need to come up with the same the following week. They are making basic football errors & falling back into the mode where the opposition knows they mentally will not go for the ball at all costs. Richmond has players who are mentally weak & lack confidence in themselves. They fear the names of like Pendlebury, Swan, Ablett, Corey, Selwood, Mitchell, Hodge, Rioli, Yet the only players the opposition fear at Richmond is Cotchin, Martin, Deledio, Jackson, King, & Rance.  They know they don't have support like other clubs do in the centre. Shane Edwards if you watch the replay of every game this year gets pushed around like a lightweight in a heavyweight contest. Its time to blood a new player for his role from the draft. He is not a AFL player. he has never proved himself since being at the club & he is not alone. Richmond must blood the Jackson & Tuck mold of player who go in HARD & hurt the opposition players. Too many players go to ground because they wont put their body on the line. The culprits are the whole team who must step up cause if any team is after & preparing for them to give them a flogging. Its Hawthorn & l been told they want to destroy our club.  Our problem lays in the playing group cause they lack mentally & they are not hungry cause they have settled in their minds that they made the finals & they will again. WORK HARDER :gotigers
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: YellowandBlackBlood on April 15, 2014, 08:19:25 AM
Motivation for EFFORT is what is lacking from the coaches because, for whatever reason, maximum effort isn't being applied by the team.  With effort all plans can be accomplished.  Not sure what's in the players heads at the moment.

Where is Rudi Webster when you need him...... :pray
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: Judge Roughneck on April 15, 2014, 08:51:56 AM
Shytes me too tears "we won't tag such and such gun cause hell get the ball anyway"
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: TigerMonk on April 15, 2014, 09:27:28 AM
Pendles is a top gun. When his not playing football, He is out playing other sports. most of our players are out drinking & pumping up their own ego's.
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: Judge Roughneck on April 15, 2014, 09:30:39 AM
Cotchin is a gun too.

But when he has a plodders groping him relentlessly it's harder to influence

For us to not tag ablett Penders types cause they are too good is defeatist attitude
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: TigerMonk on April 15, 2014, 12:05:59 PM
Cotchin is a gun too.

But when he has a plodders groping him relentlessly it's harder to influence

For us to not tag ablett Penders types cause they are too good is defeatist attitude

They are tagged, Just that the tagger has his abilities mixed up with his capabilities. If 2 players are into Cotchin then that leave another Richmond player a easy avenue to get the ball instead of worrying about the man. Let the umpire worry about control. The ball is the option everytime. Have a punch on & this will alert the umpires. no good running around bumping & blocking. others around the ball need to watch what the rucks are doing.
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: WilliamPowell on April 15, 2014, 01:28:08 PM
I agree in part. However, if the players foliowed the plan properly, they wouldn't have needed a hard tag......

On Pendlebury, they did. My very first thought when he said no hard tag on Pendlebury and that Thomas was going to him was - bad move. Pendlebury would cut Thomas to pieces and he did. Needed it to be Jacko. Follow the plan or not letting one of the comps gun run around like we did wasn't good coaching.

 He also said we had plan a, b, c, d, etc but considering nothing seemed to change in the first half that's debatable too.  :laugh:



Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: MintOnLamb on April 15, 2014, 01:37:22 PM
I think it is a case of a fractionated team. There are the haves and have nots. The real gutsy players are sick of the spuds/favourites getting a game in front of players who are more capable. Look at Lloyd and Thomas, both have been pretty good (albeit lloyds first game) but maybe players like Knights and A Edwards plus some of our youth should be getting a gig in front of Vickery, Riewoldt, S Edwards, Grigg. For my $ Richo was a spitter and a much better player that Riewoldt who is a spitter and carries on like a child. The whole group needs a real shake down and get all their issues into the open as Geelong did (well documented) years ago. The Cotchin non help issue in the weekend pretty well sums it up. Most of them are playing for themselves and not the team.
Unfortunately posting and reading all this stuff has no effect or use apart from supporters venting their frustration. To me, we have gone for the season. Pack your bags, we may beat Brisbane but after round 7 we will be 6 / 2 at best
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: YellowandBlackBlood on April 15, 2014, 09:34:53 PM
I agree in part. However, if the players foliowed the plan properly, they wouldn't have needed a hard tag......

On Pendlebury, they did. My very first thought when he said no hard tag on Pendlebury and that Thomas was going to him was - bad move. Pendlebury would cut Thomas to pieces and he did. Needed it to be Jacko. Follow the plan or not letting one of the comps gun run around like we did wasn't good coaching.

 He also said we had plan a, b, c, d, etc but considering nothing seemed to change in the first half that's debatable too.  :laugh:
We will agree to disagree WP.  So what if you planned to have a hard tag on Pendlebury?  That would not have worked either as that also requires effort and application.  We did not show effort and application for the team plan so what in the world would ever make you think that it would be any different with the hard tag?

Bottom line. No plans of any sort will work without the players actually going out applying themselves 100% to the job at hand.
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: Hellenic Tiger on April 15, 2014, 09:45:51 PM
Boggles the mind.
Why wipe my arse. I'll poot again tomorrow. :help
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: tdy on April 15, 2014, 09:58:08 PM
My vote is on the players.  We don't have the talent.  We have a lot of workmen like players who aren't A graders.  Also 2 of our better players in Rance and Deledio are out, we miss both of them badly.  If we had either we might have beaten the dogs and we'd be 2:2. 

Players also have to be smart on field to adapt to anything unknown the opposition throws at them.

I think it goes back to the draft and our recruiters in the long run. 
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: (•))(©™ on April 15, 2014, 10:12:21 PM
Development FFS!

Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: Harry on April 16, 2014, 12:18:56 AM
Coach and game plan.  In Dimmas dissection the players achieved most of Hardwicks KPI's yet we still got smashed.

While the better teams are evolving their game plan that promotes quick ball movement, run and spread, and creating open space, we are going backwards trying to slow things down, creating congestion and relying on winning stoppage after stoppage.  In addition we are tailoring our squad for this type of football shown by axing white, nahas and foley and bringing in the likes of thomas and hampson.  we are even slower than last year. 

It's amazing what a coach like Hinkley who promotes run, quick ball movement and support (the geelong way) can do with a squad who a season and a half ago was regarded as one of the worst in the league.
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: YellowandBlackBlood on April 16, 2014, 06:38:41 AM

It's amazing what a coach like Hinkley who promotes run, quick ball movement and support (the geelong way) can do with a squad who a season and a half ago was regarded as one of the worst in the league.
Most people (including myself) thought Port had some very good juniors. They were just are poorly run club with a poor coach. Hinkley's list was 10x better than the one Dimma took over.
However I agree, we need more leg speed and quick ball movement.
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: The_Truth on April 16, 2014, 07:40:38 PM
The coach plays a small role but it's not the main reason imo.
The leadership group always disappear like Houdini when the going gets tough.
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: Tiger-Harted on April 16, 2014, 08:26:02 PM
Motivation for EFFORT is what is lacking from the coaches because, for whatever reason, maximum effort isn't being applied by the team.  With effort all plans can be accomplished.  Not sure what's in the players heads at the moment.

Where is Rudi Webster when you need him...... :pray

LOL - you must be as old as me to remember Rudi  ;)

But you are right they don't seem to be motivated - the first NAB challenge they just turned up and the same for the first round and the bulldogs and now they just seem to be in a passive mode - someone needs to give 'em a good kick in the rear (show them some footage of Francis - so they can see what commitment means)
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: Rampstar on April 16, 2014, 10:28:52 PM
After tonights team selection I have severe doubts about Hardwicks ability to turn this around. The bloke pretends to be tough but when it comes to taking action against the pretenders in the team Hardwick is soft as butter.
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: Hellenic Tiger on April 16, 2014, 10:34:27 PM
The tail is wagging the dog rather than vice versa.
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: big tone on April 16, 2014, 11:08:16 PM
For me it's the coaching panel.
The biggest problem we have is being lazy. We don't want to do the hard work that makes you become a good side. That's what culture is for me. Look at how hard Hawthorn and Geelong work.
Another example is Port Adelaide. They were a basket case two years ago. They get a good, hard, no nonsense coach that makes them work hard and the rest falls into place. As a coach you must instill the want to do the hard things, being chasing, tacking and gut running.
The biggest mistake this club has done over the years is to try and teach our players to corral the player with the footy. All it does is teach our players to be lazy. If they are taught to run as hard as you can at all times to tackle the guy with the footy, we would be a lot better off. Grigg is the perfect example of this. He is happy to keep a couple of meters between himself and the man with the footy. It gives the time and space to be able to get rid of the footy. Attack the guy with the footy and it will give him less time to dispose of the footy but even less time to consider his options.
The same goes with playing off your opponent, it teaches  our player not to want body contact. When they have the footy stand next to your opponent and don't give him an inch. How often do you see our player crash into their opponents before the first siren? Not often. We seem to really hate getting into a dog fight. When we are given space we look like world beaters but if the opposition put any real pressure on us we crumble like a biscuit..
It's time now to change things up. Stop trying to do what other clubs are doing and teach our young players that the only way you get a game for this club is if you do what the team expects.  But before that Dimma has to weed out the older players that don't want to join in.
The best year of footy I remember is 1995 under Northey. We were so hungry we just chased and tackled until we got the footy and most of the time got the win. We weren't a side full of champions but we were a really hard working running side. A little like Port at the moment.
Culture at a club is how hard it wants to work.
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: Judge Roughneck on April 17, 2014, 11:07:06 AM
That and the selection panel for game day team
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: Tigershark on April 17, 2014, 08:57:56 PM
They are both pathetic....... :help
Title: Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
Post by: Tigeritis™©® on April 17, 2014, 09:23:19 PM
For me it's the coaching panel.
The biggest problem we have is being lazy. We don't want to do the hard work that makes you become a good side. That's what culture is for me. Look at how hard Hawthorn and Geelong work.
Another example is Port Adelaide. They were a basket case two years ago. They get a good, hard, no nonsense coach that makes them work hard and the rest falls into place. As a coach you must instill the want to do the hard things, being chasing, tacking and gut running.
The biggest mistake this club has done over the years is to try and teach our players to corral the player with the footy. All it does is teach our players to be lazy. If they are taught to run as hard as you can at all times to tackle the guy with the footy, we would be a lot better off. Grigg is the perfect example of this. He is happy to keep a couple of meters between himself and the man with the footy. It gives the time and space to be able to get rid of the footy. Attack the guy with the footy and it will give him less time to dispose of the footy but even less time to consider his options.
The same goes with playing off your opponent, it teaches  our player not to want body contact. When they have the footy stand next to your opponent and don't give him an inch. How often do you see our player crash into their opponents before the first siren? Not often. We seem to really hate getting into a dog fight. When we are given space we look like world beaters but if the opposition put any real pressure on us we crumble like a biscuit..
It's time now to change things up. Stop trying to do what other clubs are doing and teach our young players that the only way you get a game for this club is if you do what the team expects.  But before that Dimma has to weed out the older players that don't want to join in.
The best year of footy I remember is 1995 under Northey. We were so hungry we just chased and tackled until we got the footy and most of the time got the win. We weren't a side full of champions but we were a really hard working running side. A little like Port at the moment.
Culture at a club is how hard it wants to work.
:clapping :clapping :clapping
That's why I bang on about mediocrity.
It's the one thing that no coach has addressed properly.

It's important for us because it's been our issue for so so long. Mediocrity breeds apathy, it kills progress and stagnates success.

That is the most important thing and the first thing that has to be done at Richmond before anything else even begins, creating a culture of excellence that transcends and permeates everything.