Author Topic: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?  (Read 2608 times)

Online WilliamPowell

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Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
« Reply #30 on: April 14, 2014, 12:36:33 PM »
I'm going to pin this on the players because I don't see the midfield unit running both ways. Other thing is we concede a lot of goals through basic skill errors and turnovers. Can't blame that on the coach if the players misfire a handball or kick it straight to the opposition.

It's never mutually exclusive but if I were to portion blame  I would go 80% players 20% coach.

I agree we do need a degree of a plan B but if you look at 2013 Freo and Hawthorn, they pretty much went in with just a plan A. The difference is that they are able to force their opponents to play under their terms through putting in 4 quarter efforts. We on the other hand have a tendency to either take the foot of the pedal or take 2 quarters to realise we are playing for premiership points. I blame the coach only for not pulling a Führer Malthouse and sending a player to the VFL for being pooe.

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Offline TigerRocket

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Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
« Reply #31 on: April 14, 2014, 01:05:11 PM »
Guys, I agree the stop start manner of plays is killing us but I cant get out of my mind we lost 2 quality coaches in Campbell and Leppitsch and replaced them with who???? Agreed we have injuries but the back half turnovers and poor mid field responsibility contribute to a very ordinary forward line. I just wish we had some tough nuts that put the opposition under tough physical pressure, maybe then the taggers would have more to consider than simply take Cotch out of the gamer!

Online WilliamPowell

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Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
« Reply #32 on: April 14, 2014, 02:04:03 PM »
Guys, I agree the stop start manner of plays is killing us but I cant get out of my mind we lost 2 quality coaches in Campbell and Leppitsch and replaced them with who???? Agreed we have injuries but the back half turnovers and poor mid field responsibility contribute to a very ordinary forward line. I just wish we had some tough nuts that put the opposition under tough physical pressure, maybe then the taggers would have more to consider than simply take Cotch out of the gamer!

Fair point but would argue that for his last 2 years at the Club Wayne Campbell did very little coaching. His role was leadership & opposition analysis. With leadership I am referring to developing programs for our leadership group and working with them to become better leaders. He also spent a helluva lot of time in the his last 12 months at the club putting together our VFL side. So really the last 2 year was more administration and very little hands on coaching
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Offline Stripes

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Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
« Reply #33 on: April 14, 2014, 02:50:15 PM »
Astbury has been good but he does limit our run from defense. Rance always like to get on his bike and run up the ground to provide an option. Dave still lacks confidence and so prefers to kick it long (that's why he had 100% efficiency last game). I would love to see Astbury take more risks and look for the shorter option because at the moment we desperately need better ball movement out of defense. Maybe moving Lids back until Rance returns could be another possibility to generate more transitional play.

One thing I do believe this has shown us Maric, Lids, Rance, King (fit) and Jackson (fit) are far more important to our structure/game plan than I would have believed.

Offline Judge Roughneck

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Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
« Reply #34 on: April 14, 2014, 03:11:32 PM »
Dave got more rebound than chaplin

Offline torch

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Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
« Reply #35 on: April 14, 2014, 06:27:39 PM »
Coaching Group.

Offline Lozza

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Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
« Reply #36 on: April 14, 2014, 06:45:53 PM »
Can't remember at what stage it was against the pies but after Chaplin laid off to someone he just stopped dead in his tracks and offered no return option whatsoever. Watching Freo on the weekend they run in groups of three or four so always have options. In contrast at the moment we are continually isolated, simply just not doing the hard work. We all see this so the RFC coaches must see it yet nothing changes. If the players were in more traditional occupations not following instructions as often as they do would result in them joining the dole queue very quickly.

Offline Tiger-Harted

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Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
« Reply #37 on: April 14, 2014, 09:20:01 PM »
I have loved this club through thick and thin - players come and go but the supporters always seem the same - instead of pointing fingers - have you asked what can you do about it?

It's not the players or the coaches - it's both groups...

Coaching group have game plan (it's not working but they have one) and yes it is fairly obvious they have not prepared the players well enough for 2014 - I believe it's a communication issue - they are trying to finesse the result - instead of demanding the results and having consequences... I'm all for the carrot and stick approach but we give too much carrot and not enough stick...

The playing group are good enough skill wise (we have seen them do it) but they only do it when it suits them... and they are smart enough they have the wool pulled over a lot of peoples eyes...

I will give you this - a lot of players we have don't seem to want to work hard enough:
Grigg - won't go for the hard ball or put his body on the line
Chaplin - is always to far off his man - gets most of his stats from opposition errors
Vickery - has no idea what he is capable of - he has the perfect physique - he should be breaking packs and making backmen tremble...
Grimes - is still vitually a newbie 5 years for 29 games - he needs someone to give him instruction (not Chappy)
Dea, Batchelor, Helbig, O'Hanlan - have never show any improvement (it's like having Wayne Shand back)

The rest of them have some potential (yes we are still a couple of players away from the big time) but they seem unmotivated - so why don't the rest of 63,000 members we are supposed to have turn up and we maybe able to light a fire under them... All three groups are under done Players, Coahes and Supporters - we all need to lift our game...

Offline YellowandBlackBlood

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Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
« Reply #38 on: April 14, 2014, 09:27:59 PM »
Friend of mine heard Dimma explain the game plan against Collingwood (friend is a high up coterie member).  He was very specific about what the plan was and what Collingwood do.  A lot of research went into the plan. This was said before the game.
When the players began playing it's as if they ignored the whole plan.  Friend didn't think it was that hard to follow but required EFFORT from the players.
Unfortunately that just didn't come.
Dimma's blood must have been boiling in the box.......
That's why I think it's the playing group's fault.
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tony_montana

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Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
« Reply #39 on: April 14, 2014, 09:57:08 PM »
No doubt a coach cant do anything about dumb unforced errors and basic dumb decision making, but having said that, a good coach weeds this out of the team in time. You don't see top coaches accept so many basic errors for long bc they get rid of the deadwood after giving players a fair and reasonable chance to prove themselves. We, on the other hand, seem to continue to give these said players games week in week out. That is very much a coaching problem

So in short its the playing group or parts of it first and foremost, but also the coaching group by not doing enough to improve or get rid of the deficiencies in a timely manner. There are players getting regular games who are very lucky to still be on an afl list imo.

Online WilliamPowell

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Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
« Reply #40 on: April 15, 2014, 07:12:37 AM »
Friend of mine heard Dimma explain the game plan against Collingwood (friend is a high up coterie member).  He was very specific about what the plan was and what Collingwood do.  A lot of research went into the plan. This was said before the game.
When the players began playing it's as if they ignored the whole plan.  Friend didn't think it was that hard to follow but required EFFORT from the players.
Unfortunately that just didn't come.
Dimma's blood must have been boiling in the box.......
That's why I think it's the playing group's fault.

Yep I was in that "briefing", though I don't think we are that "high up" in the coterie stakes  ;D

Anyway back the "briefing" yes he was very specific in what the plan was and what the players had to do. Yep they didn't do it

But he also said that we wouldn't put a hard tag on Pendlebury because you "wont stop him getting 20-25 possessions". Excuse me? Pendlebury is a star of the comp and we didn't go with the hard tag? Hard tag certainly worked on Cotchin. Please...massive error from the coaches box. Week after week he continues to play under performing favourites. What message is that sending the entire group? It's not the fault of those busting a gut to get an opportunity that he refuses to play them. But it is his fault that the likes of Vickery & Grigg wont chase or tackle because he allows then to do it, he doesn't make then accountable 

So for mine it is a combination of both.  Players are way ahead of themselves and the coaches outside of the issues with playing favourites have for whatever reason have got them playing slow footy. 

He, all the other coaches and the players need to start taking responsibility for the mess we find ourselves in. Every single one of them ....
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Offline YellowandBlackBlood

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Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
« Reply #41 on: April 15, 2014, 07:32:08 AM »
Friend of mine heard Dimma explain the game plan against Collingwood (friend is a high up coterie member).  He was very specific about what the plan was and what Collingwood do.  A lot of research went into the plan. This was said before the game.
When the players began playing it's as if they ignored the whole plan.  Friend didn't think it was that hard to follow but required EFFORT from the players.
Unfortunately that just didn't come.
Dimma's blood must have been boiling in the box.......
That's why I think it's the playing group's fault.

Yep I was in that "briefing", though I don't think we are that "high up" in the coterie stakes  ;D

Anyway back the "briefing" yes he was very specific in what the plan was and what the players had to do. Yep they didn't do it

But he also said that we wouldn't put a hard tag on Pendlebury because you "wont stop him getting 20-25 possessions". Excuse me? Pendlebury is a star of the comp and we didn't go with the hard tag? Hard tag certainly worked on Cotchin. Please...massive error from the coaches box. Week after week he continues to play under performing favourites. What message is that sending the entire group? It's not the fault of those busting a gut to get an opportunity that he refuses to play them. But it is his fault that the likes of Vickery & Grigg wont chase or tackle because he allows then to do it, he doesn't make then accountable 

So for mine it is a combination of both.  Players are way ahead of themselves and the coaches outside of the issues with playing favourites have for whatever reason have got them playing slow footy. 

He, all the other coaches and the players need to start taking responsibility for the mess we find ourselves in. Every single one of them ....
I agree in part. However, if the players foliowed the plan properly, they wouldn't have needed a hard tag......
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Offline TigerMonk

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Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
« Reply #42 on: April 15, 2014, 08:14:57 AM »
With injuries we lose structure which we dont have the players to come up & meet the role left void. We cannot rely on injured players as there is still 22 players out on that oval considered to be AFL players. We are not developing quick enough. We are missing players like a Tuck who opposition players have said they feared as his one purpose was to get the ball, Fight for it & always put his body on the line. He hurt opposition players in doing so. Jackson is another who does the same being aggressive. You only have to look at the leader who is prepared to lay into the opposition players with quick punches. You dont see that from many others. Forwards must crash the packs but where are our crumbers ??? they aint near them.  HUGE FAULT blame this on the coaching staff for not drilling this into them.
We carry players who are not prepared to put their bodies on the line & its as simple as that. We carry players who are not up to the task, We have players who are not fit enough because they lapsed over the summer while other clubs have prepared, While alot of Richmond players were not very active over the preseason games. You cannot prepare a season over the summer with people standing around nursing injures & egos. The fault lays with the playing group & its up to the staff to prepare them better. The players need to rise this weekend regardless who is out injured. The 22 need to all give 100% with nothing left in the tank & they need to come up with the same the following week. They are making basic football errors & falling back into the mode where the opposition knows they mentally will not go for the ball at all costs. Richmond has players who are mentally weak & lack confidence in themselves. They fear the names of like Pendlebury, Swan, Ablett, Corey, Selwood, Mitchell, Hodge, Rioli, Yet the only players the opposition fear at Richmond is Cotchin, Martin, Deledio, Jackson, King, & Rance.  They know they don't have support like other clubs do in the centre. Shane Edwards if you watch the replay of every game this year gets pushed around like a lightweight in a heavyweight contest. Its time to blood a new player for his role from the draft. He is not a AFL player. he has never proved himself since being at the club & he is not alone. Richmond must blood the Jackson & Tuck mold of player who go in HARD & hurt the opposition players. Too many players go to ground because they wont put their body on the line. The culprits are the whole team who must step up cause if any team is after & preparing for them to give them a flogging. Its Hawthorn & l been told they want to destroy our club.  Our problem lays in the playing group cause they lack mentally & they are not hungry cause they have settled in their minds that they made the finals & they will again. WORK HARDER :gotigers

Offline YellowandBlackBlood

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Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
« Reply #43 on: April 15, 2014, 08:19:25 AM »
Motivation for EFFORT is what is lacking from the coaches because, for whatever reason, maximum effort isn't being applied by the team.  With effort all plans can be accomplished.  Not sure what's in the players heads at the moment.

Where is Rudi Webster when you need him...... :pray
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Offline Judge Roughneck

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Re: Whats the bigger issue at RFC? Playing group or Coaching group?
« Reply #44 on: April 15, 2014, 08:51:56 AM »
Shytes me too tears "we won't tag such and such gun cause hell get the ball anyway"