One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: one-eyed on February 01, 2015, 02:08:08 PM
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Tigers look to US for help on finals failure
Jennifer Phelan
afl.com.au
February 1, 2015 10:00 AM
RICHMOND'S coaches turned to a range of US sporting clubs in the off-season for advice on how to get their players past their back-to-back elimination final heartbreaks.
Damien Hardwick and two other coaches made the trip to the States to meet with elite clubs from the country's three major sporting codes – the NFL, the NBA and MLB.
It was a fact finding mission after the Tigers' disastrous 57-point loss to Port Adelaide in last year's elimination final, organised with the intention of working out how to minimise the mental scarring associated with consecutive failed finals bids.
Hardwick said it had helped to understand the reality of the Tigers' position and what they had to do next to move beyond the first week of the finals.
"Every side has a story," Hardwick told AFL.com.au.
"The reality of the situation is, there's many sides that have a similar sort of story of failure.
"Every failure is another opportunity to develop and that's the way we've got to look at it.
"There's no million dollar answer out there that you're looking for.
"The fact of the matter is it's all hard work and every side's trying to improve and get better.
"You've got to earn your right to get back there and give yourself a go."
The magnitude of the Power loss that came on the back of the Tigers' inspiring nine-match winning streak that qualified them for September caught many by surprise.
Fans travelled to Adelaide in droves for the game only to see what Hardwick has described as some of the worst football his side have played for a number of years.
Afterwards, the game was reviewed and analysed before the players went on holiday.
"It came out with not only a few home truths but some areas we can improve on this year going forward," Hardwick said.
"Like any loss, it was dissected thoroughly and you look for answers about why you didn't play to your absolute potential on the day.
"It can be put down to a number of things but probably the big one for us is Port Adelaide played an outstanding game of football.
"Us, as a football club, were really disappointing on the day.
"We played well below our expectations so we can break it down to a number of things we can look at to improve this year but the reality is, we didn't play well on the day and we'll take that into this year."
While the coaches sought advice from overseas, Hardwick has also looked closer to home to see the how the progression of teams in a similar position to the Tigers of today has panned out.
He said West Coast in seasons 2002-04, when the club failed at the first finals hurdle before back-to-back Grand Final appearances and the 2006 premiership, was an encouraging example.
"They lost three elimination finals and two years later they win a Grand Final," he said.
"We've just got to give ourselves another opportunity to get back there so our next session is our most important; all those types of things.
"We've got to make sure we get the opportunity to get there because once you're there, you're a one in eight chance to win it – but you've got to get there first."
While it's early in the pre-season, Hardwick says there are already signs the players are determined to move beyond the heartache.
They'll enter the NAB Challenge with a different mindset to last year, with a squad made up of players mainly under the age of 23 to play in their first hit-out – against the Western Bulldogs on February 28 - before the older ones are eased in.
"The players have come back hungry for greater success," he said.
"We were disappointed with our finish last year and probably to a lesser degree our season overall.
"The situation is, we've got to get better.
"We're looking to rectify that result and work hard, and like other sides, looking forward to getting to round one and seeing how we go."
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-02-01/tigers-look-to-us-for-help
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(http://sceneinboston.com/forum/images/smilies/facepalm.gif)
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:facepalm :facepalm
For stuff sake. This proves they have NFI of their own
and a healthy budget.
Sack this idiot coaching staff ASAP.
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I agree with Filthy Phil and The Ox.
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A lot of money to spend only to look in the hall of mirrors.
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Another page in the chapter of incompetence
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its pretty simple.
Middling teams lose finals. For as long as they think they have a side thats better than middling then we will be doomed to failure. Have they not sat back and and gone nope we werent good enough we must keep on building. Clearly they havent hence they have turned to the USA for answers.
Damien a word for you mate We were spanked by a far better side who did not allow us to play well. Your lucky not to be picking over a 100 point thrashing instead of a 59 point easing off.
When are you going to ask yourself? why do we keep on losing big important games. Answer that and you and your staff wouldnt need to go to the good ole US of A for answers. Just a little honesty will get you the answer your looking for.If you cant make the hard decisions that are needed mate get out and let someone else have a go who will.
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I remember an extended time not too long ago when we couldn't even get to the big important games
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Progressive I like it ,,,,,,a lot , nice work Tigers ,,,again , :shh last trip we made was How to make the finals , good thinking to close this out :clapping
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I remember an extended time not too long ago when we couldn't even get to the big important games
Yeah but that was when we were a middling side that lost games, now we are a middling side that loses big games
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here i was thinking we hadnt won a big game since sept 15 2001.
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Not sure about the angst on here to be honest
Other clubs have done exactly the same thing
Hawthorn did it a few years back. Folks on here praised them for it and the questioned why the RFC wasn't doing the same thing in an effort to improve
Now they go off and do one of these trips and folks bag them for it
Can't win :-\
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(http://www.sf-fandom.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/love-smiley-029.gif)
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clarko went what 3 years ago. Dimma goes now.
Clarko brings in ratten and port bring in voss. Dimma replaces leppa and daly with who, i forgot??
so on those numbers in 3 years we might get a descent replacement.
yet his going to the states for answers about why they have been embarrassed 2 years running. :lol
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Not sure about the angst on here to be honest
Other clubs have done exactly the same thing
Hawthorn did it a few years back. Folks on here praised them for it and the questioned why the RFC wasn't doing the same thing in an effort to improve
Now they go off and do one of these trips and folks bag them for it
Can't win :-\
:clapping
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It's a pretty annual thing to go over to the US for the coaching staff, just because it's not written about doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
Vice versa when it does get written about, doesn't make it a big deal.
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Not sure about the angst on here to be honest
Other clubs have done exactly the same thing
Hawthorn did it a few years back. Folks on here praised them for it and the questioned why the RFC wasn't doing the same thing in an effort to improve
Now they go off and do one of these trips and folks bag them for it
Can't win :-\
When you can't win, you can't win.
Time to start delivering for the fans and then the rest will sort itself out
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clarko went what 3 years ago. Dimma goes now.
Clarko brings in ratten and port bring in voss. Dimma replaces leppa and daly with who, i forgot??
so on those numbers in 3 years we might get a descent replacement.
yet his going to the states for answers about why they have been embarrassed 2 years running. :lol
They?
I would've referred to us as "we".
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Why doesn't the club spend our money on something a bit more character building?
Perhaps a trip to walk the Kokoda Trail might bring the players down a few pegs and give them some perspective on life. It will certainly help foster team building & mate-ship.
We lack leaders that can stand up when the chips are down.
We need guys that can either stop the rot or at least can lead us out of it.
We need a culture that breeds leaders that aren't perturbed by the sweet smell of faux success but have a stoic resolve to finish the coarse no matter the hype.
........I didn't need a U.S junket to tell me this.
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It's a pretty annual thing to go over to the US for the coaching staff, just because it's not written about doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
Vice versa when it does get written about, doesn't make it a big deal.
It is big deal.
Our supporters need news like this (positive, proactive news) to replace a loss so they can find an excuse (albeit a weak one) to put the boots in. Its cathartic.
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Not sure about the angst on here to be honest
Other clubs have done exactly the same thing
Hawthorn did it a few years back. Folks on here praised them for it and the questioned why the RFC wasn't doing the same thing in an effort to improve
Now they go off and do one of these trips and folks bag them for it
Can't win :-\
Hawthorn know how to develop players, as well as having awareness
as to what ALL players on the list are capable of. (Miles incident)
They also have a coach....one who our coach tries
tp copy and be like because he feels so much of what
Clarkson does is unfairly not credited to him.
Lol.
:facepalm :facepalm :chuck
It's a waste of everyone's time and money, Willie and ur right - The can't win.
That's the thing.....
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It's a pretty annual thing to go over to the US for the coaching staff, just because it's not written about doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
Vice versa when it does get written about, doesn't make it a big deal.
Why the U.S.? In fact, why travel? Many industries have worlds best practise in Europe or the US but don't spend money flying staff on an all expenses paid annual trip. Not necessarily saying it isn't worthwhile but it would be interesting to understand why clubs (and Richmond) feel it so necessary to make an annual trip
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I am all for trying to improve the knowledge in the club whatever the area.
I would be horrified if our coaches were not trying to improve their knowledge base.
This at least proves that they are open to new ideas.
Isn't that a good thing?
Port's Darren Burgess is accepted as the new leader in AFL fitness.
"Burgess graduated from the University of New South Wales and received his PhD through the Australian Catholic University before getting his start as a fitness assistant with the Sydney Swans.
He was head fitness coach with Parramatta Power in the old National Soccer League before his first stint at Port Adelaide in 2004. A whirlwind five years followed with the Socceroos and English Premier League giants Liverpool, where he was responsible for some of the most valuable athletes on the planet as the head of fitness and conditioning."
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/the-secret-behind-port-adelaides-elite-fitness-level-is-gut-busting-preseason-employed-by-worldclass-fitness-guru-darren-burgess/story-fni5f9de-1226896817101
Now we had high-level staff fly to England to put our offer to Burgess. It was better than the Port offer but his wife wanted to go home to Adelaide and was prepared to take less.
That's looking outside the sport to soccer and going after what you think is the best advice in the world.
This is in exactly the same vein.
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Lmao@learning from a country whose every sport is based on time outs
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Where do you think clarkson invested his research ::)
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Where do you think clarkson invested his research ::)
So ur implying clarksons success at hawthorn is due to going to the USA and getting
Secret information from the sports government?
Lmao.
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:lol :lol
yep thats it. Got nothing to do with the great coach he is, players and the excellent staff he has around him.
all good though we have Tim Clark and Mcqualter developing he kids.
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Why doesn't the club spend our money on something a bit more character building?
Perhaps a trip to walk the Kokoda Trail might bring the players down a few pegs and give them some perspective on life. It will certainly help foster team building & mate-ship.
We lack leaders that can stand up when the chips are down.
We need guys that can either stop the rot or at least can lead us out of it.
We need a culture that breeds leaders that aren't perturbed by the sweet smell of faux success but have a stoic resolve to finish the coarse no matter the hype.
........I didn't need a U.S junket to tell me this.
smart idea but the club is not smart
plus it costs money and they need that to pay for leppa's replacement
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:lol :lol
yep thats it. Got nothing to do with the great coach he is, players and the excellent staff he has around him.
all good though we have Tim Clark and Mcqualter developing he kids.
McQuarter Pounder. Dishin out the happy meals lol
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Where do you think clarkson invested his research ::)
Yep. Stand still and you're dead. I've no problem with coaches educating themselves on fresh ideas from other sport organisations.
Lol at the sooks around here. Make me laugh.
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Clarkson is not afraid of bringing in highly experienced coaches to assist, Hardwick on the other hand brings in ex players with little or no experience.
Is Hardwick's football dept. budget so tight or is he so insecure re his position?
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Clarkson is not afraid of bringing in highly experienced coaches to assist, Hardwick on the other hand brings in ex players with little or no experience.
Like Chocco Williams? ::)
Sorry I have read this a few times around the place and it's complete crap. Williams is about as good a football brain as there is in the industry.
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It's a pretty annual thing to go over to the US for the coaching staff, just because it's not written about doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
Vice versa when it does get written about, doesn't make it a big deal.
Why the U.S.? In fact, why travel? Many industries have worlds best practise in Europe or the US but don't spend money flying staff on an all expenses paid annual trip. Not necessarily saying it isn't worthwhile but it would be interesting to understand why clubs (and Richmond) feel it so necessary to make an annual trip
Other areas of staff have been to Europe - high performance, recruiting, marketing and sponsorship.
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The fetish afl has over nfl and other american sports makes me sick
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Mr Magic does Choco sit in the gameday box? In the last two years we have brought in 3 ex players to our assistant coaching ranks to replace the experienced assistants we have lost.
Try doing a bit of research MM.
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Mr Magic does Choco sit in the gameday box? In the last two years we have brought in 3 ex players to our assistant coaching ranks to replace the experienced assistants we have lost.
Try doing a bit of research MM.
You said coaches initially, are you now restricting it to coaches who sit in the game day box?
Bit hard for him to keep up if the goal posts are changing
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Mr Magic does Choco sit in the gameday box? In the last two years we have brought in 3 ex players to our assistant coaching ranks to replace the experienced assistants we have lost.
Try doing a bit of research MM.
He does a bit of both in the box and on the ground.
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The fetish afl has over nfl and other american sports makes me sick
I agree with this in general, though one initiative I would like the AFL to copy from NFL is banning all technological assistance for coaches during matches. Computers, GPS etc....pee 'em all off and make coaches go back to coaching by their wits.
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15 seconds to go, Tigers down by 1 in the Grand Final. Riewoldt throws a 30 yard pass to Martin who shoots the three!! Tigers win!!!
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15 seconds to go, Tigers down by 1 in the Grand Final. Riewoldt throws a 30 yard pass to Martin who shoots the three!! Tigers win!!!
:lol
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Mr Magic does Choco sit in the gameday box? In the last two years we have brought in 3 ex players to our assistant coaching ranks to replace the experienced assistants we have lost.
Try doing a bit of research MM.
You said coaches initially, are you now restricting it to coaches who sit in the game day box?
Bit hard for him to keep up if the goal posts are changing
Fair point I should have been more specific. Of the three assistants I believe two were game day coaches sitting in the box. Yes RCF official Choco occasionally sits in the box but spends most of his time on the bench. The last final Choco was on the bench, if his football brain is so valued one would have thought he could have been better value in the box because Hardwick just looked like a deer in headlights.
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Mr Magic does Choco sit in the gameday box? In the last two years we have brought in 3 ex players to our assistant coaching ranks to replace the experienced assistants we have lost.
Try doing a bit of research MM.
All good.
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Not sure about the angst on here to be honest
Other clubs have done exactly the same thing
Hawthorn did it a few years back. Folks on here praised them for it and the questioned why the RFC wasn't doing the same thing in an effort to improve
Now they go off and do one of these trips and folks bag them for it
Can't win :-\
its not the fact they went to america. its the content of the article and the reasons why.
i mean to say its a real worry that they are totally kidding themselves about where the list is actually at. if we need a psychiatrist to handle the emotions of losing then ours are probably better than the shrinks in the us.
if we need to go to the usa to ask WHY DID WE LOSE AGAINST PORT, tHEN THEOSE IN CHARGE SHOULD NOT HAVE A JOB. A 10 yr old can see why we lost.
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Because Port were on fire?
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Yes, and because they play never tear us apart before the bounce.
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Agree with Club being open to new ideas. Need to think out of the box. The club should be seeking to educate itself on best practices. It would be negligent if it did not. However the club needs to look at its performance last year honestly. It needs to accept that we were comprehensively beaten by Port in the elimination final and that we had a very poor start to the year. Therefore there are clear deficiencies in the playing list that need to be addressed.
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Agree with Club being open to new ideas. Need to think out of the box. The club should be seeking to educate itself on best practices. It would be negligent if it did not. However the club needs to look at its performance last year honestly. It needs to accept that we were comprehensively beaten by Port in the elimination final and that we had a very poor start to the year. Therefore there are clear deficiencies in the playing list that need to be addressed.
And Coaching list
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if we need to go to the usa to ask WHY DID WE LOSE AGAINST PORT, tHEN THEOSE IN CHARGE SHOULD NOT HAVE A JOB. A 10 yr old can see why we lost.
What makes you think the Port game is why we went to the US?
They've said that that game was analysed immediately after the loss.
Clearly the list manager has looked to address some weaknesses in our list re outside run. Port made us look like witches hats.
Obviously it would have been great to get some more experienced players on to fix this but were the right players available? Aside from Malceski (who'd have cost a bomb) I didn't see a lot there.
Hartley/Hardwick's mistakes re this were made a couple of years back and they're playing catchup somewhat.
Just hope that a couple that they've brought can address the problems in the not too distant future..
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if we need to go to the usa to ask WHY DID WE LOSE AGAINST PORT, tHEN THEOSE IN CHARGE SHOULD NOT HAVE A JOB. A 10 yr old can see why we lost.
A 10 year old can see that's not the reason why we went.
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:lol
:clapping
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if we need to go to the usa to ask WHY DID WE LOSE AGAINST PORT, tHEN THEOSE IN CHARGE SHOULD NOT HAVE A JOB. A 10 yr old can see why we lost.
A 10 year old can see that's not the reason why we went.
(http://www.sf-fandom.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/love-smiley-029.gif)
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We lost to port because the team rampant with weak idiots
Who think they're badasses.
Take it up to them on a big day and the poo their fuckn pants.
The coach just changes their nappies cos he's their
Nanny.
Nothing's happening under hardwick, ladies, so put those jack rabbits away until
Such a time as he is terminated.
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Repetitive.
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That's right. They are.
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if we need to go to the usa to ask WHY DID WE LOSE AGAINST PORT, tHEN THEOSE IN CHARGE SHOULD NOT HAVE A JOB. A 10 yr old can see why we lost.
A 10 year old can see that's not the reason why we went.
;D
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15 seconds to go, Tigers down by 1 in the Grand Final. Riewoldt throws a 30 yard pass to Martin who shoots the three!! Tigers win!!!
:lol
:lol :lol
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Given the level of frustration on here due to recent finals failure and lack of success does not mean we will attain success immediately merely because as a supporter group we deserve it more than most.
As far as the club is concerned they're damned if they do and damned if they don't.
Let the footy do the talking and lets see how that pans out. Then we can evaluate the success or failure of any "overseas research trip" or anything else.
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if we need to go to the usa to ask WHY DID WE LOSE AGAINST PORT, tHEN THEOSE IN CHARGE SHOULD NOT HAVE A JOB. A 10 yr old can see why we lost.
What makes you think the Port game is why we went to the US?
They've said that that game was analysed immediately after the loss.
Clearly the list manager has looked to address some weaknesses in our list re outside run. Port made us look like witches hats.
Obviously it would have been great to get some more experienced players on to fix this but were the right players available? Aside from Malceski (who'd have cost a bomb) I didn't see a lot there.
Hartley/Hardwick's mistakes re this were made a couple of years back and they're playing catchup somewhat.
Just hope that a couple that they've brought can address the problems in the not too distant future..
did you not read the opening 3 lines.. did they really have to go to the usa to work out, the situation is we have to get better. after 5 seasons does damien really need to ask how can we limit mental scarring.if he cant see our players are not good enough and many are mentally fragile always will be and have let him and us down repeatedly then we are stuffed. do we really need to go to the usa to tell us what is so obviously wrong.
if we need to go to the usa to ask WHY DID WE LOSE AGAINST PORT, tHEN THEOSE IN CHARGE SHOULD NOT HAVE A JOB. A 10 yr old can see why we lost.
A 10 year old can see that's not the reason why we went.
wonderful at last some intestinal fortitude from you instead of the heavily tinted rose coloured perspective we always get. isee you didnt need to go to the usa to find this commodity.