One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: one-eyed on November 20, 2015, 01:19:29 AM
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Buckenara has a few major differences to the footy journos. He has Collins and Tucker going before our pick while he has Oliver, Ah Chee & Burton all going in much later in the 20s.
He has Mathieson going to us by the way.
Former Hawthorn recruiter Gary Buckenara nominates who your club should pick in the first round
Gary Buckenara
Herald Sun
November 20, 2015
ESSENDON should pick the next Josh Gibson and Jarryd Roughead with its prized top-10 selections in Tuesday’s draft, according to recruiting expert Gary Buckenara.
The former Hawthorn recruiter has nominated his entire first round and has backed Carlton’s expected choice of Jacob Weitering at pick 1 and expects five players from northern academies to go in the first round.
Buckenara says the Bombers should target versatile talls Aaron Francis and Charlie Curnow. Likening Francis to Gibson and Curnow to Roughead, Buckenara said it was impossible to put a price on key-position talent.
“When the key-position players are there, it’s very hard not to pick them instead of midfielders because it’s a bit easier to find them.”
Buckenara helped build Hawthorn’s three-peat premiership list, delivering a bounty in his first draft as sole recruiter in 2004 of Roughead, Lance Franklin and Jordan Lewis plus rookie Clinton Young.
The players selected in Buckenara’s phantom draft are based on his assessment of their talent and he has ranked academy players Callum Mills, Jacob Hopper, Matthew Kennedy, Eric Hipwood and Ben Keays where he expects other clubs to place bids on them on draft night.
Under the AFL’s new academy bidding system, a points value is assigned to every pick and clubs can draft academy players by ‘paying’ those points generated from later picks.
BUCKENARA’S PHANTOM DRAFT TOP 30
1. Carlton — Jacob Weitering
Defender, 195cm, 91kg, Dandenong Stingrays/Mt Eliza/The Peninsula School
Gary Buckenara says: This is a really important pick for the Blues and it will deliver a key-position defender in Weitering who can also play a forward role. He will predominantly be that key defender and should play senior footy in 2016. He’s a potential captain.
2. Brisbane Lions — Josh Schache
Forward, 199cm, 96kg, Murray Bushrangers/Seymour
Buckenara says: Schache will be a really good pick for Brisbane because he’s exactly what they need — he’s exactly what every club needs because this type of player is so hard to find. He’s a forward/ruckman with agility, reasonable pace and a reasonable leap to be able to go into the ruck when needed. He’s a beautiful kick on goal and hardly ever misses inside 50.
3. Melbourne — Darcy Parish
Midfielder, 181cm, 74kg, Geelong Falcons/Winchelsea
Buckenara says: Melbourne could bid for Swans Academy midfielder Callum Mills but I think they’ll go straight for Darcy Parish instead. Parish to me is the quality midfielder of this year’s draft pool. He’s got good pace, can win his own footy, is a good decision-maker and kicks the ball very well. Even though Melbourne has a lot of midfielders already, he’s the type of player who has proven in the Under-18s he can play a defensive role behind the footy and be a smart set-up player or go into the midfield and play as a ball-winner with pace and outside run.
4. Sydney Swans — Callum Mills
Midfielder, 186cm, 80kg, Sydney Swans Academy/North Shore
Buckenara says: An in and under midfielder, Mills is a competitive animal who is super fit, dedicated, has an elite kick and is a potential captain material down the track. He’s a class act.
*I expect Essendon to bid for Swans Academy player Callum Mills and the Swans will match it by using a combination of draft picks that equal pick 4.
5. Essendon — Aaron Francis
Forward/defender, 191cm, 92kg, West Adelaide/Woxton North
Buckenara says: Francis is a bit of a Josh Gibson type. He’s a tall defender who can come third man in because he reads the play really well but can also go forward and take a mark and kick a goal. Potentially, he could be a bigger-bodied midfielder, so he’s very adaptable in where he can play. There are question marks on his endurance, so I suspect he’ll play a defensive third-man role given the Bombers lost Jake Carlisle.
6. GWS Giants — Jacob Hopper
Midfielder, 187cm, 88kg, GWS Academy/North Ballarat
Buckenara says: Hopper is very similar to Mills but probably needs to work on his kicking a little bit. He’s a competitive in-and-under player who makes good decisions with the ball.
*I also expect the Bombers to bid for Jacob Hopper and the Giants will match it again by using a combination of draft picks that equal pick 6.
7. Essendon — Charlie Curnow
Forward/midfielder, 191cm, 95kg, Geelong Falcons/Torquay
Buckenara says: For the size factor I think the Bombers should go with Curnow. He can be a power forward but because he’s so athletic he can also play as a big-bodied midfielder and win the ball a bit, just like Jarryd Roughead. He can actually also do what Roughead does and that’s go into the ruck, but he can also go in and not ruck but win clearances. To me, that fits a need at Essendon. When the key-position players are there, it’s very hard not to pick them instead of midfielders because it’s a bit easier to find them.
8. GWS Giants — Matthew Kennedy
Midfielder, 187cm, 88kg, GWS Academy/Collingullie
Buckenara says: A nice size, Kennedy can play as a high half-forward. He’s very clever, reads the play well, has a great pair of hands, makes good decisions and is a beautiful kick..
*I expect the Suns to bid for GWS Academy player Matthew Kennedy and the Giants will match it by using a combination of draft picks that equal pick 8.
9. Gold Coast — Sam Weideman
Forward, 196cm, 94kg, Eastern Ranges/Vermont
Buckenara says: Sam has been injured but I liken him to a young Matthew Pavlich. He has very similar traits to Pavlich in that he competes really well, kick the ball well, he’s very athletic, is a nice size and is a potential key-position player. He does need to put a bit more of a body on and needs to get his injuries right, but he’d be a good fit. When the key-position players are there, clubs would be mad to bypass them.
10. Melbourne — Kieran Collins
Defender, 194cm, 100kg, Dandenong Stingrays/Langwarrin/Haileybury College
Buckenara says: Given that Melbourne gets Parish at pick 3, I’d go Collins here even though a lot of people have him going a bit further down the order. I still think he’s going to be a beauty as a key defender. He’s a Brian Lake type, he’s going to be a really big, strong man down back who is able to play on those strong forwards like Tom Hawkins. Sometimes it’s hard to find guys who are capable on playing on those big forwards, so when you’ve got a guy like Collins, who makes good decisions with the footy, is a good kick, reads the play quite well, he’d be an excellent pick and good fit for what Melbourne needs.
11. Carlton — Darcy Tucker
Half-back, 184cm, 80kg, North Ballarat/Horsham Saints
Buckenara says: Tucker is a beautiful left-foot kick, he has good endurance, reasonable pace, makes good decisions with the footy and adds a touch of class. He’s a bit of a ball carrier — he’s not afraid to take players on. He’s actually not too dissimilar to Kade Simpson and the Blues need another player like that. He’s also potential captain material going forward.
12. Adelaide — Wayne Milera
Half-forward, 185cm, 75kg, Central Districts/Ingle Farm
Buckenara says: A really clever player with good leg speed, makes good decisions with the footy and can play forward and midfield. He’s another type who can add class and polish to the Crows.
13. Carlton — Harry McKay
Forward, 200cm, 95kg, Gippsland Power/Warragul
Buckenara says: Given I’ve got them taking Tucker and most of the other key-position players are gone, a guy like McKay would be a nice addition. He’s only been playing footy for four or five years, he’s been more of a basketball guy so he came into the program late but really improved and gained a lot of confidence out of his performances in the Under-18 championships. He’s a tall, agile forward who can probably go into the ruck because he can jump. He does need to put a body on but he’s a perfect key-position size.
14. Richmond — Rhys Mathieson
Midfielder, 186cm, 82kg, Geelong Falcons/Bell Park
Buckenara says: Mathieson racks up the possessions, he’s a hardworking in-and-under player who makes good decisions with the footy. He’d be a really good pick-up for the Tigers to add some quality to their midfield depth.
15. Adelaide — Riley Bonner
Half-back, 191cm, 85kg, West Adelaide/Goodwood
Buckenara says: A tallish rebounding defender, Bonner is an Adelaide boy with a beautiful left-foot kick and provides a lot of drive off half-back because he loves to get the ball and run. His ball use is very good and similar to the way Grant Birchall distributes the ball. The go-home factor has probably hurt them a bit in the past so the fact he’s from Adelaide adds a bit of weight here.
16. Brisbane Lions — Eric Hipwood
Forward/defender, 199cm, 84kg, Brisbane Lions Academy/Aspley
Buckenara says: Hipwood is interesting. He can play as a key defender or key forward but is still very raw so the Lions will need to be patient with him. He is a good size and when he puts on a body, he will be a big boy and a fantastic addition. He’s a thumping kick.
*I expect the Saints to bid for Brisbane Academy player Eric Hipwood and the Lions to match it by using a combination of draft picks that equal pick 16.
17. St Kilda — Ben McKay
Forward/defender, 199cm, 95kg, Gippsland Power/Warragul
Buckenara says: The twin brother of Harry McKay, Ben does have similar attributes to his brother in his size and shape and he came into the system a bit later this year. At this stage, Ben probably plays a little bit harder than what Harry does and his form at the back end of the year was really good. He would fit well in the St Kilda playing model.
18. Hawthorn — Jade Gresham
Midfielder, 178cm, 77kg, Northern Knights/South Morang
Buckenara says: Given a few of the Hawks midfielders are getting older, Gresham would be a good addition. He was prolific in the TAC Cup and Under-18 championships, has good leg speed, good endurance and uses the ball well. He’s only small in stature but he does win his own ball and has the pace outside, not dissimilar to Billy Hartung who likes to take them on and break the lines. That type of player really goes well with Alastair Clarkson’s game plan.
19. Brisbane Lions — Ben Keays
Midfielder, 185cm, 83kg, Brisbane Lions Academy/Redland
Buckenara says: A nice mover, Keays is a neat left-footed midfielder who can also play as a rebounding half-back flanker. He is agile and takes them on. He might be a bit too left-sided, so he’ll need to work on using his right foot as well to give him another string to his bow.
*I expect the Suns to bid for Brisbane Academy player Ben Keays and the Lions to match it by using a combination of draft picks that equal pick 19.
20. Gold Coast — Harley Balic
Midfielder/half-forward, 187cm, 80kg, Sandringham Dragons/Parkdale
Buckenara says: A mobile midfielder who can play in a number of positions — half-forward, half-back but can go into the midfield — Balic is a competitor who wins his own footy and likes to take the game on. He has an adequate kick but I’d like to see that improve.
21. North Melbourne — Ryan Clarke
Midfielder, 185cm, 84kg, Eastern Ranges/Knox/Melbourne GS
Buckenara says: Clarke is the sort of player the Kangaroos really need — he has good leg speed, can take players on and is a good kick. With Ryan Bastinac leaving he can fill a void there on the outside but he’s also really competitive. He was probably the form player in the TAC Cup in the last half of the year.
22. Hawthorn — Callum Ah Chee
Half-forward, 182cm, 71kg, South Fremantle/Kelmscott
Buckenara says: A West Australian boy, on talent and class I think Ah Chee is one of the best players in the draft. He didn’t have the best of years or Under-18 carnival but that could be because WA didn’t have a good carnival itself. There is more to him than just being a half-forward flanker — he’s a clever playmaker when up the field so he can go into the midfield and he’s got some tricks. He can stand on heads and take a mark and he’s got the Cyril Rioli-style agility. He just needs to improve his tank because he’s been a player who can dominate for 10 minutes a quarter but then go missing.
23. Carlton — Tom Cole
Half-back, 185cm, 76kg, Sandhurst/Bendigo Pioneers
Buckenara says: A nice mover, Cole can play as rebounding defender, on the wing or as a high half-forward. He’s similar to Sam Docherty. He has pace, is a beautiful left-foot kick and makes good decisions with the ball. He’d be a good fit at the Blues.
24. Western Bulldogs — Clayton Oliver
Midfielder, 187cm, 86kg, Murray Bushrangers/Mooroopna
Buckenara says: There’s talk of Oliver going top 10 but when there are good key-position players early you just don’t pass on them and then I’ve got a number of other players in front of him and who are better fits for certain clubs. Oliver had a really good back end of the year where he really stood out, has a good strong body, is a competitive beast and wins a lot of the football. To me, halfway through the year he would have been a smoky pick but his performances in the second half have pushed him up the order.
25. Western Bulldogs — Jesse Glass-McCasker
Defender, 196cm, 95kg, Swan Districts
Buckenara says: I think Glass-McCasker has all the attributes. Similar to what I saw in Ben Stratton back in 2009, he can play on talls and smalls because he’s quick and reads the play very well. He’s a bit player-conscious at the moment but that’s because he’s just a kid. He’s a potential key-position defender.
26. Fremantle — Ryan Burton
Forward, 191cm, 90kg, North Adelaide/PHOS Camden
Buckenara says: The Dockers are crying out for a key forward and Burton is exactly that. Burton could go earlier because before his bad leg injury he was touted as a top-10 pick but I think the doubt sees him drift because that injury was a very serious one. He will need to be managed and patience is key as he gets some confidence back, but there is huge upside. He has good pace, a great pair of hands and is a beautiful kick.
27. West Coast — Josh Dunkley
Midfielder, 189cm, 86kg, Gippsland Power/Sale or James Parsons, midfielder, 189cm, 77kg, Eastern Ranges/Norwood
Buckenara says: If Dunkley doesn’t nominate as a father-son for Sydney, which reports suggest he won’t, he would be exactly the type of player Eagles coach Adam Simpson would be looking for. He’s a super competitor and can fill a role as a midfielder who wins the ball or as a lockdown hard-at-it defender who reads the play very well and will be third-man in all the time. He’s exactly the type of player that would suit West Coast’s style.
If Dunkley nominates as a father-son, James Parsons would be a good get as an elite runner who’s really quick, a good ball user and a reasonable decision-maker. On the big Subiaco ground, a guy like Parsons would fit very well.
28. Essendon — Daniel Rioli
Small forward, 179cm, 65kg, North Ballarat Rebels/St Marys
Buckenara says: The Bombers won’t let a Rioli slip this time. His combine testing was outstanding — his fitness has always been the query. He’s always been a bit of a later developer but his footy really took off and he showed some great signs this year. Essendon is crying out for that clever small forward and he’s just that.
29. Essendon — David Cunningham
Midfielder, 183cm, 85kg, Oakleigh Chargers/Boroondara Hawks/Melbourne GS
Buckenara says: Leg speed is an issue for Essendon so Cunningham can add something there. He’s a powerful athlete, very quick, carries the ball and is elusive. His leg speed can complement Travis Colyer’s game.
30. GWS Giants — Matthew Flynn
Ruckman, 200cm, 99kg, GWS Giants Academy/Narrandera
Buckenara says: The best ruckman in the draft. Initially he looked a bit overweight but he’s actually very mobile and gets around the ground well. He reads the play well, is a lovely kick and I’d liken him to how Todd Goldstein played at the same age.
*I expect the Kangaroos to nominate GWS Academy player Matthew Flynn and the Giants to match it by using a combination of draft picks that equal pick 30.
31. North Melbourne — Ben Crocker
Half-back, 185cm, 81kg, Oakleigh Chargers/Kew Comets
Buckenara says: The Kangaroos will go for best available who suits their needs and Crocker is that in that he has good leg speed, takes them on, carries the ball and has a good kick although it can be a bit inconsistent. But that might be a bit of a coaching thing in his decision-making, which could improve that element because he has a good technique.
32. Collingwood — Tom Doedee
Half-back, 187cm, 80kg, Geelong Falcons/St Joseph’s
Buckenara says: A very good reader of the play, Doedee is a bit like Andrew Mackie and also has a bit of Ben Stratton about him because he’s got the long arms and is agile so he can play tall and small. He’s got pace, agility and he reads the ball in flight very well so he can be a third-man up type.
33. North Melbourne — Oleg Markov
Midfielder/forward, 188cm, 73kg, North Adelaide/Gepps Cross
Buckenara says: Markov is one of my smokies for this draft but has big upside. His parents have an athletic background so Markov naturally is a good athlete and I thought he was outstanding in the Under-18 Championships for South Australia. He can jump, has good pace and the thing that got me is the improvement in his kicking from 2014 to 2015. He obviously worked really hard on it. He can play high half-forward or can go into the midfield.
34. Gold Coast — Tim Sullivan
Ruckman, 199cm, 90kg, Glenelg/Port MacDonell
Buckenara says: North Melbourne might also look at Sullivan because both teams need a ruckman. He’ll be a developer who they’ll need to put some time into and work on his kicking — it’s not bad but not great, either. He’s a nice athletic boy and this year was a learning year because it was the first time he was really exposed to a program. He’s not your typical 200cm plus ruckman — he has a great leap, is very mobile and can take a mark.
35. Western Bulldogs — Josh Schoenfeld
Midfielder, 187cm, 75kg, Peel Thunder/Rockingham
Buckenara says: An elite runner who tested very well at the combine, Schoenfeld broke the 3km time-trial record and has really improved his skills year on year and his ability to win his own footy — he was a bit outside in previous year. He has elite endurance, he’s a really hard runner and to have him on a wing or half-back stuff, could be really damaging. In time he could be very similar to Isaac Smith.
BUCKY’S SMOKEYS
Clint Hinchcliffe — a midfielder from Perth who moves a bit like Sam Mitchell
Maris Olekalns — South Australian won the 20m sprint at the draft combine in 2.88 sec
Hisham Kerbaetieh — mid/forward from the Calder Cannons who booted 46 goals in the past two TAC Cup seasons
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/afl-draft-2015-stuff-in-the-first-round/news-story/8b57a8034aeac9a47d9db82d0dd05cfe
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Hawks get Gresham and Ah Chee - good luck with that Bucky
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Hawks get Gresham and Ah Chee - good luck with that Bucky
That's the beauty of having two picks around and under 20
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Someone remind our list managers....
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Hawks get Gresham and Ah Chee - good luck with that Bucky
That's the beauty of having two picks around and under 20
or if one of them slides and you got a bit 30 or 35 you are laughing ...
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What is Buckenara doing now he isn't at Hawthorn? Anyone know?
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What is Buckenara doing now he isn't at Hawthorn? Anyone know?
Nothing but writing articles for the HUN during the FA, trade and draft period
Not employed by any AFL Club ATM
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What is Buckenara doing now he isn't at Hawthorn? Anyone know?
Nothing but writing articles for the HUN during the FA, trade and draft period
Not employed by any AFL Club ATM
Would there be any reason anyone could think of why we wouldn't get this bloke to our club? He has been involved with the most successful club in the last 30 years and more recently a part of recruiting the side who have won 4 flags in 8 years.
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What is Buckenara doing now he isn't at Hawthorn? Anyone know?
Nothing but writing articles for the HUN during the FA, trade and draft period
Not employed by any AFL Club ATM
Would there be any reason anyone could think of why we wouldn't get this bloke to our club? He has been involved with the most successful club in the last 30 years and more recently a part of recruiting the side who have won 4 flags in 8 years.
He was named as Fgoty ops manager @ North Ballarat about 2 weeks ago
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Would there be any reason anyone could think of why we wouldn't get this bloke to our club?
He hasn't come from Port is the only reason I can think of
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What is Buckenara doing now he isn't at Hawthorn? Anyone know?
Nothing but writing articles for the HUN during the FA, trade and draft period
Not employed by any AFL Club ATM
Would there be any reason anyone could think of why we wouldn't get this bloke to our club? He has been involved with the most successful club in the last 30 years and more recently a part of recruiting the side who have won 4 flags in 8 years.
He was named as Fgoty ops manager @ North Ballarat about 2 weeks ago
Maybe he has had enough of the recruiting side of things and needed a change but IMO it would be worth asking the question. Maybe we have??..,
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Is he the guy responsible for Thorp, Dowler, X. Ellis and Muston?
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Is he the guy responsible for Thorp, Dowler, X. Ellis and Muston?
May well be but you could probably live with that with 4 premiership cups in 8 years on your mantlepiece.
I'm not sure Hawthorn are to worried about those misses right about now.
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Interesting to see where he has Oliver, Burton and Ah Chee compared to other draft commentators.
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Is he the guy responsible for Thorp, Dowler, X. Ellis and Muston?
May well be but you could probably live with that with 4 premiership cups in 8 years on your mantlepiece.
I'm not sure Hawthorn are to worried about those misses right about now.
How scary would they be with Selwood and Pendlebury
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So much talk about this draft being shallow/20 deep, but the more I read about the kids the more I think it's at least 30 deep.
I hope we don't regret trading our two 2nd round picks, or even on-trading pick 19. You have no idea what order people will go in after the first handful or so, but if we could pick up two players like Collins and Ah Chee, or even Oliver is he's going to slip that far, it could really have paid dividends long-term. Yarran is such an unknown for me but at least we know what he can do when he's on.
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So much talk about this draft being shallow/20 deep, but the more I read about the kids the more I think it's at least 30 deep.
I hope we don't regret trading our two 2nd round picks, or even on-trading pick 19. You have no idea what order people will go in after the first handful or so, but if we could pick up two players like Collins and Ah Chee, or even Oliver is he's going to slip that far, it could really have paid dividends long-term. Yarran is such an unknown for me but at least we know what he can do when he's on.
And they are not unknown????
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:lol
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So much talk about this draft being shallow/20 deep, but the more I read about the kids the more I think it's at least 30 deep.
I hope we don't regret trading our two 2nd round picks, or even on-trading pick 19. You have no idea what order people will go in after the first handful or so, but if we could pick up two players like Collins and Ah Chee, or even Oliver is he's going to slip that far, it could really have paid dividends long-term. Yarran is such an unknown for me but at least we know what he can do when he's on.
And they are not unknown????
Come on mate surely you have it figured out. Whatever the club doesn't do was the right choice. Don't pick up a player? They are good players. But if we did? Well what a waste because they're a dud
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So much talk about this draft being shallow/20 deep, but the more I read about the kids the more I think it's at least 30 deep.
I hope we don't regret trading our two 2nd round picks, or even on-trading pick 19. You have no idea what order people will go in after the first handful or so, but if we could pick up two players like Collins and Ah Chee, or even Oliver is he's going to slip that far, it could really have paid dividends long-term. Yarran is such an unknown for me but at least we know what he can do when he's on.
And they are not unknown????
Yes they are. That's why I said this at the end. Yarran to me in an unknown in that we don't know if he will play to his potential or at what consistency. But at least we know his best is good.
But you have to wonder why we didn't try improving our draft picks more is what I'm saying. Bringing in a bloke or two every year won't be enough to help us climb up the ladder.
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So much talk about this draft being shallow/20 deep, but the more I read about the kids the more I think it's at least 30 deep.
I hope we don't regret trading our two 2nd round picks, or even on-trading pick 19. You have no idea what order people will go in after the first handful or so, but if we could pick up two players like Collins and Ah Chee, or even Oliver is he's going to slip that far, it could really have paid dividends long-term. Yarran is such an unknown for me but at least we know what he can do when he's on.
And they are not unknown????
Yes they are. That's why I said this at the end. Yarran to me in an unknown in that we don't know if he will play to his potential or at what consistency. But at least we know his best is good.
But you have to wonder why we didn't try improving our draft picks more is what I'm saying. Bringing in a bloke or two every year won't be enough to help us climb up the ladder.
Rightly or wrongly the recruiters felt this draft was shallow. As such the kept their 1st pick. Without going for Yarran, they would have kept 31 which they obviously felt was not going to get us a very good player. We also do not know who if anyone they tried to trade during trade week apart form Astbury. Maybe they tried a few players but did not get any bites. Who really knows?
Last year they felt the draft was deeper and that is why we used all our picks up to 77. So they brought in 5 youngsters onto the list. The problem is it takes 3 to 4 years for those guys to blossom unless you are really special (maybe C.Ellis).
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So much talk about this draft being shallow/20 deep, but the more I read about the kids the more I think it's at least 30 deep.
I hope we don't regret trading our two 2nd round picks, or even on-trading pick 19. You have no idea what order people will go in after the first handful or so, but if we could pick up two players like Collins and Ah Chee, or even Oliver is he's going to slip that far, it could really have paid dividends long-term. Yarran is such an unknown for me but at least we know what he can do when he's on.
And they are not unknown????
Yes they are. That's why I said this at the end. Yarran to me in an unknown in that we don't know if he will play to his potential or at what consistency. But at least we know his best is good.
But you have to wonder why we didn't try improving our draft picks more is what I'm saying. Bringing in a bloke or two every year won't be enough to help us climb up the ladder.
Rightly or wrongly the recruiters felt this draft was shallow. As such the kept their 1st pick. Without going for Yarran, they would have kept 31 which they obviously felt was not going to get us a very good player. We also do not know who if anyone they tried to trade during trade week apart form Astbury. Maybe they tried a few players but did not get any bites. Who really knows?
Last year they felt the draft was deeper and that is why we used all our picks up to 77. So they brought in 5 youngsters onto the list. The problem is it takes 3 to 4 years for those guys to blossom unless you are really special (maybe C.Ellis).
Exactly, which is why I wondered aloud if we had tried to improve our picks for this year.
For example, if the draft is 20-odd deep, and people generally nail their 1-20 or so picks these days, could we have traded our 2nd picks from this year and next year for pick 19, and next year's first pick for an early pick this year, and had 3 picks within the top 20?
If players take 3-4 years and we're only drafting 1 decent one per year (consider Ellis, Vlastuin etc) could we not consider trying to get three players in one year so they peak together and help us climb the ladder?
Because I think one player at a time won't be enough to keep us relevant. The Bulldogs have shown us how quickly you can climb the ladder if you get good draft picks, use them wisely, and have the kids all developing and improving together...
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So much talk about this draft being shallow/20 deep, but the more I read about the kids the more I think it's at least 30 deep.
I hope we don't regret trading our two 2nd round picks, or even on-trading pick 19. You have no idea what order people will go in after the first handful or so, but if we could pick up two players like Collins and Ah Chee, or even Oliver is he's going to slip that far, it could really have paid dividends long-term. Yarran is such an unknown for me but at least we know what he can do when he's on.
And they are not unknown????
Yes they are. That's why I said this at the end. Yarran to me in an unknown in that we don't know if he will play to his potential or at what consistency. But at least we know his best is good.
But you have to wonder why we didn't try improving our draft picks more is what I'm saying. Bringing in a bloke or two every year won't be enough to help us climb up the ladder.
Rightly or wrongly the recruiters felt this draft was shallow. As such the kept their 1st pick. Without going for Yarran, they would have kept 31 which they obviously felt was not going to get us a very good player. We also do not know who if anyone they tried to trade during trade week apart form Astbury. Maybe they tried a few players but did not get any bites. Who really knows?
Last year they felt the draft was deeper and that is why we used all our picks up to 77. So they brought in 5 youngsters onto the list. The problem is it takes 3 to 4 years for those guys to blossom unless you are really special (maybe C.Ellis).
Exactly, which is why I wondered aloud if we had tried to improve our picks for this year.
For example, if the draft is 20-odd deep, and people generally nail their 1-20 or so picks these days, could we have traded our 2nd picks from this year and next year for pick 19, and next year's first pick for an early pick this year, and had 3 picks within the top 20?
If players take 3-4 years and we're only drafting 1 decent one per year (consider Ellis, Vlastuin etc) could we not consider trying to get three players in one year so they peak together and help us climb the ladder?
Because I think one player at a time won't be enough to keep us relevant. The Bulldogs have shown us how quickly you can climb the ladder if you get good draft picks, use them wisely, and have the kids all developing and improving together...
I agree with you but have to say the Bulldogs finished quite low to get those good picks. A couple of handy father sons too helped them. Hardwick would never survive such a performance/tank.
The other problem in losing Hardwick is that Choco would probably leave us too. He seems to be our greatest asset currently. Not sure if he stays unless he becomes head coach which TBH I wouldn't mind.
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So much talk about this draft being shallow/20 deep, but the more I read about the kids the more I think it's at least 30 deep.
I hope we don't regret trading our two 2nd round picks, or even on-trading pick 19. You have no idea what order people will go in after the first handful or so, but if we could pick up two players like Collins and Ah Chee, or even Oliver is he's going to slip that far, it could really have paid dividends long-term. Yarran is such an unknown for me but at least we know what he can do when he's on.
And they are not unknown????
Yes they are. That's why I said this at the end. Yarran to me in an unknown in that we don't know if he will play to his potential or at what consistency. But at least we know his best is good.
But you have to wonder why we didn't try improving our draft picks more is what I'm saying. Bringing in a bloke or two every year won't be enough to help us climb up the ladder.
Rightly or wrongly the recruiters felt this draft was shallow. As such the kept their 1st pick. Without going for Yarran, they would have kept 31 which they obviously felt was not going to get us a very good player. We also do not know who if anyone they tried to trade during trade week apart form Astbury. Maybe they tried a few players but did not get any bites. Who really knows?
Last year they felt the draft was deeper and that is why we used all our picks up to 77. So they brought in 5 youngsters onto the list. The problem is it takes 3 to 4 years for those guys to blossom unless you are really special (maybe C.Ellis).
Exactly, which is why I wondered aloud if we had tried to improve our picks for this year.
For example, if the draft is 20-odd deep, and people generally nail their 1-20 or so picks these days, could we have traded our 2nd picks from this year and next year for pick 19, and next year's first pick for an early pick this year, and had 3 picks within the top 20?
If players take 3-4 years and we're only drafting 1 decent one per year (consider Ellis, Vlastuin etc) could we not consider trying to get three players in one year so they peak together and help us climb the ladder?
Because I think one player at a time won't be enough to keep us relevant. The Bulldogs have shown us how quickly you can climb the ladder if you get good draft picks, use them wisely, and have the kids all developing and improving together...
I agree with you but have to say the Bulldogs finished quite low to get those good picks. A couple of handy father sons too helped them. Hardwick would never survive such a performance/tank.
The other problem in losing Hardwick is that Choco would probably leave us too. He seems to be our greatest asset currently. Not sure if he stays unless he becomes head coach which TBH I wouldn't mind.
why would hardwick going mean choco would too?
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I agree with you but have to say the Bulldogs finished quite low to get those good picks. A couple of handy father sons too helped them. Hardwick would never survive such a performance/tank.
The other problem in losing Hardwick is that Choco would probably leave us too. He seems to be our greatest asset currently. Not sure if he stays unless he becomes head coach which TBH I wouldn't mind.
why would hardwick going mean choco would too?
TBH I obviously don't know that for certain. All I can say is that he is a friend of Damien and is part of the Port connection down at Punt road. When clubs get a new coach, they most often bring in their own coaching team to surround them so he may not be part of their plans or he may not want to be part of their plans. So I think at best it is 50:50 he'd stay if Dimma is shown the door. Just an educated hunch, that's all.
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So much talk about this draft being shallow/20 deep, but the more I read about the kids the more I think it's at least 30 deep.
I hope we don't regret trading our two 2nd round picks, or even on-trading pick 19. You have no idea what order people will go in after the first handful or so, but if we could pick up two players like Collins and Ah Chee, or even Oliver is he's going to slip that far, it could really have paid dividends long-term. Yarran is such an unknown for me but at least we know what he can do when he's on.
And they are not unknown????
Yes they are. That's why I said this at the end. Yarran to me in an unknown in that we don't know if he will play to his potential or at what consistency. But at least we know his best is good.
But you have to wonder why we didn't try improving our draft picks more is what I'm saying. Bringing in a bloke or two every year won't be enough to help us climb up the ladder.
Rightly or wrongly the recruiters felt this draft was shallow. As such the kept their 1st pick. Without going for Yarran, they would have kept 31 which they obviously felt was not going to get us a very good player. We also do not know who if anyone they tried to trade during trade week apart form Astbury. Maybe they tried a few players but did not get any bites. Who really knows?
Last year they felt the draft was deeper and that is why we used all our picks up to 77. So they brought in 5 youngsters onto the list. The problem is it takes 3 to 4 years for those guys to blossom unless you are really special (maybe C.Ellis).
Exactly, which is why I wondered aloud if we had tried to improve our picks for this year.
For example, if the draft is 20-odd deep, and people generally nail their 1-20 or so picks these days, could we have traded our 2nd picks from this year and next year for pick 19, and next year's first pick for an early pick this year, and had 3 picks within the top 20?
If players take 3-4 years and we're only drafting 1 decent one per year (consider Ellis, Vlastuin etc) could we not consider trying to get three players in one year so they peak together and help us climb the ladder?
Because I think one player at a time won't be enough to keep us relevant. The Bulldogs have shown us how quickly you can climb the ladder if you get good draft picks, use them wisely, and have the kids all developing and improving together...
I agree with you but have to say the Bulldogs finished quite low to get those good picks. A couple of handy father sons too helped them. Hardwick would never survive such a performance/tank.
The other problem in losing Hardwick is that Choco would probably leave us too. He seems to be our greatest asset currently. Not sure if he stays unless he becomes head coach which TBH I wouldn't mind.
why would hardwick going mean choco would too?
I assumed it was some gay innuendo
-
So much talk about this draft being shallow/20 deep, but the more I read about the kids the more I think it's at least 30 deep.
I hope we don't regret trading our two 2nd round picks, or even on-trading pick 19. You have no idea what order people will go in after the first handful or so, but if we could pick up two players like Collins and Ah Chee, or even Oliver is he's going to slip that far, it could really have paid dividends long-term. Yarran is such an unknown for me but at least we know what he can do when he's on.
And they are not unknown????
Yes they are. That's why I said this at the end. Yarran to me in an unknown in that we don't know if he will play to his potential or at what consistency. But at least we know his best is good.
But you have to wonder why we didn't try improving our draft picks more is what I'm saying. Bringing in a bloke or two every year won't be enough to help us climb up the ladder.
Rightly or wrongly the recruiters felt this draft was shallow. As such the kept their 1st pick. Without going for Yarran, they would have kept 31 which they obviously felt was not going to get us a very good player. We also do not know who if anyone they tried to trade during trade week apart form Astbury. Maybe they tried a few players but did not get any bites. Who really knows?
Last year they felt the draft was deeper and that is why we used all our picks up to 77. So they brought in 5 youngsters onto the list. The problem is it takes 3 to 4 years for those guys to blossom unless you are really special (maybe C.Ellis).
Exactly, which is why I wondered aloud if we had tried to improve our picks for this year.
For example, if the draft is 20-odd deep, and people generally nail their 1-20 or so picks these days, could we have traded our 2nd picks from this year and next year for pick 19, and next year's first pick for an early pick this year, and had 3 picks within the top 20?
If players take 3-4 years and we're only drafting 1 decent one per year (consider Ellis, Vlastuin etc) could we not consider trying to get three players in one year so they peak together and help us climb the ladder?
Because I think one player at a time won't be enough to keep us relevant. The Bulldogs have shown us how quickly you can climb the ladder if you get good draft picks, use them wisely, and have the kids all developing and improving together...
I agree with you but have to say the Bulldogs finished quite low to get those good picks. A couple of handy father sons too helped them. Hardwick would never survive such a performance/tank.
The other problem in losing Hardwick is that Choco would probably leave us too. He seems to be our greatest asset currently. Not sure if he stays unless he becomes head coach which TBH I wouldn't mind.
why would hardwick going mean choco would too?
I assumed it was some gay innuendo
No innuendos here Chucky.
-
So much talk about this draft being shallow/20 deep, but the more I read about the kids the more I think it's at least 30 deep.
I hope we don't regret trading our two 2nd round picks, or even on-trading pick 19. You have no idea what order people will go in after the first handful or so, but if we could pick up two players like Collins and Ah Chee, or even Oliver is he's going to slip that far, it could really have paid dividends long-term. Yarran is such an unknown for me but at least we know what he can do when he's on.
And they are not unknown????
Yes they are. That's why I said this at the end. Yarran to me in an unknown in that we don't know if he will play to his potential or at what consistency. But at least we know his best is good.
But you have to wonder why we didn't try improving our draft picks more is what I'm saying. Bringing in a bloke or two every year won't be enough to help us climb up the ladder.
Rightly or wrongly the recruiters felt this draft was shallow. As such the kept their 1st pick. Without going for Yarran, they would have kept 31 which they obviously felt was not going to get us a very good player. We also do not know who if anyone they tried to trade during trade week apart form Astbury. Maybe they tried a few players but did not get any bites. Who really knows?
Last year they felt the draft was deeper and that is why we used all our picks up to 77. So they brought in 5 youngsters onto the list. The problem is it takes 3 to 4 years for those guys to blossom unless you are really special (maybe C.Ellis).
Exactly, which is why I wondered aloud if we had tried to improve our picks for this year.
For example, if the draft is 20-odd deep, and people generally nail their 1-20 or so picks these days, could we have traded our 2nd picks from this year and next year for pick 19, and next year's first pick for an early pick this year, and had 3 picks within the top 20?
If players take 3-4 years and we're only drafting 1 decent one per year (consider Ellis, Vlastuin etc) could we not consider trying to get three players in one year so they peak together and help us climb the ladder?
Because I think one player at a time won't be enough to keep us relevant. The Bulldogs have shown us how quickly you can climb the ladder if you get good draft picks, use them wisely, and have the kids all developing and improving together...
I agree with you but have to say the Bulldogs finished quite low to get those good picks. A couple of handy father sons too helped them. Hardwick would never survive such a performance/tank.
The other problem in losing Hardwick is that Choco would probably leave us too. He seems to be our greatest asset currently. Not sure if he stays unless he becomes head coach which TBH I wouldn't mind.
why would hardwick going mean choco would too?
I assumed it was some gay innuendo
No innuendos here Chucky.
if it's innuendo its pretty gay isnt it?
-
So much talk about this draft being shallow/20 deep, but the more I read about the kids the more I think it's at least 30 deep.
I hope we don't regret trading our two 2nd round picks, or even on-trading pick 19. You have no idea what order people will go in after the first handful or so, but if we could pick up two players like Collins and Ah Chee, or even Oliver is he's going to slip that far, it could really have paid dividends long-term. Yarran is such an unknown for me but at least we know what he can do when he's on.
And they are not unknown????
Yes they are. That's why I said this at the end. Yarran to me in an unknown in that we don't know if he will play to his potential or at what consistency. But at least we know his best is good.
But you have to wonder why we didn't try improving our draft picks more is what I'm saying. Bringing in a bloke or two every year won't be enough to help us climb up the ladder.
Rightly or wrongly the recruiters felt this draft was shallow. As such the kept their 1st pick. Without going for Yarran, they would have kept 31 which they obviously felt was not going to get us a very good player. We also do not know who if anyone they tried to trade during trade week apart form Astbury. Maybe they tried a few players but did not get any bites. Who really knows?
Last year they felt the draft was deeper and that is why we used all our picks up to 77. So they brought in 5 youngsters onto the list. The problem is it takes 3 to 4 years for those guys to blossom unless you are really special (maybe C.Ellis).
Exactly, which is why I wondered aloud if we had tried to improve our picks for this year.
For example, if the draft is 20-odd deep, and people generally nail their 1-20 or so picks these days, could we have traded our 2nd picks from this year and next year for pick 19, and next year's first pick for an early pick this year, and had 3 picks within the top 20?
If players take 3-4 years and we're only drafting 1 decent one per year (consider Ellis, Vlastuin etc) could we not consider trying to get three players in one year so they peak together and help us climb the ladder?
Because I think one player at a time won't be enough to keep us relevant. The Bulldogs have shown us how quickly you can climb the ladder if you get good draft picks, use them wisely, and have the kids all developing and improving together...
I agree with you but have to say the Bulldogs finished quite low to get those good picks. A couple of handy father sons too helped them. Hardwick would never survive such a performance/tank.
The other problem in losing Hardwick is that Choco would probably leave us too. He seems to be our greatest asset currently. Not sure if he stays unless he becomes head coach which TBH I wouldn't mind.
why would hardwick going mean choco would too?
I assumed it was some gay innuendo
No innuendos here Chucky.
if it's innuendo its pretty gay isnt it?
I guess you're right. Just like catching a cold. I opened the window and influenza.
-
So much talk about this draft being shallow/20 deep, but the more I read about the kids the more I think it's at least 30 deep.
I hope we don't regret trading our two 2nd round picks, or even on-trading pick 19. You have no idea what order people will go in after the first handful or so, but if we could pick up two players like Collins and Ah Chee, or even Oliver is he's going to slip that far, it could really have paid dividends long-term. Yarran is such an unknown for me but at least we know what he can do when he's on.
And they are not unknown????
Yes they are. That's why I said this at the end. Yarran to me in an unknown in that we don't know if he will play to his potential or at what consistency. But at least we know his best is good.
But you have to wonder why we didn't try improving our draft picks more is what I'm saying. Bringing in a bloke or two every year won't be enough to help us climb up the ladder.
Rightly or wrongly the recruiters felt this draft was shallow. As such the kept their 1st pick. Without going for Yarran, they would have kept 31 which they obviously felt was not going to get us a very good player. We also do not know who if anyone they tried to trade during trade week apart form Astbury. Maybe they tried a few players but did not get any bites. Who really knows?
Last year they felt the draft was deeper and that is why we used all our picks up to 77. So they brought in 5 youngsters onto the list. The problem is it takes 3 to 4 years for those guys to blossom unless you are really special (maybe C.Ellis).
Exactly, which is why I wondered aloud if we had tried to improve our picks for this year.
For example, if the draft is 20-odd deep, and people generally nail their 1-20 or so picks these days, could we have traded our 2nd picks from this year and next year for pick 19, and next year's first pick for an early pick this year, and had 3 picks within the top 20?
If players take 3-4 years and we're only drafting 1 decent one per year (consider Ellis, Vlastuin etc) could we not consider trying to get three players in one year so they peak together and help us climb the ladder?
Because I think one player at a time won't be enough to keep us relevant. The Bulldogs have shown us how quickly you can climb the ladder if you get good draft picks, use them wisely, and have the kids all developing and improving together...
I agree with you but have to say the Bulldogs finished quite low to get those good picks. A couple of handy father sons too helped them. Hardwick would never survive such a performance/tank.
The other problem in losing Hardwick is that Choco would probably leave us too. He seems to be our greatest asset currently. Not sure if he stays unless he becomes head coach which TBH I wouldn't mind.
why would hardwick going mean choco would too?
I assumed it was some gay innuendo
No innuendos here Chucky.
if it's innuendo its pretty gay isnt it?
I guess you're right. Just like catching a cold. I opened the window and influenza.
which is nothing to sneeze at