One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: PuntRdRoar on November 28, 2005, 01:08:37 PM
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Next years National Draft will probably be the final year of rebuilding at RFC. Its the superdraft. We have a young list. A shocking draw. Most likely we will finish in the bottom 4. This may not be so bad however. It will mean 1 early pick and another one before pick 20...in a draft where theres going to be 25 good players. Who knows...Greg Miller may pull a rabbit out of the hat and pinch some more picks somewhere else in the 10-15. Richmond are closer than alot of people think...I also think when we struggle next year people will call Miller a complete failure...that will be wrong. At the end of next year Richmond will be closer to a flag than at any stage over the last 25 years. All we need is one year more down at the bottom...to get the players we need.
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The last time there was a "superdraft" we finished 3rd, so who knows!
If we have a great season, well, yay!
If we have a poo season, then we're gonna get a stuffing good player!
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If we have a great season, well, yay!
If we have a pooh season, then we're gonna get a effing good player!
A win/win hey Razor :thumbsup ;D
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The mentality at RFC should be about winning the trophy...we need a bad finish next year...next year is everything...if we get 3 or 4 good ones next year...we will almost have the pieces together for a shot 2 or 3 years later. It wont be a matter of having the pieces to the puzzle then...it will be about getting experience and team systems and fitness to play at the top level.
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Next year is going to be a tank-a-thon towards the end of the season IMO, and a team who REALLY wants to make the finals will probably get in!
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The pr machine for our tradeables must start to get into action. Anyone, who we want to offload must be talked up and rumours put about that clubs want them...a systematic, orchestrated, premeditated campaign. If Hawthorn can get 2 first rounders for Hay...then anything is possible.
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The last time there was a "superdraft" we finished 3rd, so who knows!
And what did we do in that superdraft? - we gave up our first round pick because IIRC we didn't have the money, after paying $$$ on new long-term contracts, to keep Benny Gale on and so we needed to find a replacment ruckman (Staff). Then to top it off we recruited Paul Hudson and Adam Houlihan! Sheesh we totally stuffed up big time in that draft :banghead :scream :banghead.
If we have a great season, well, yay!
If we have a pooh season, then we're gonna get a effing good player!
If we have a great season, the trade value of our guys will skyrocket also :thumbsup.
It's easy to offload average footballers when you're in the bottom four. The tough ask is to do it when you're near the top as part of staying up there and improving still.
The first 5-10 tough rounds next year will determine where will finish. The second half of the draw isn't too bad. If we are struggling at the halfway mark hopefully those within the club who matter will hold their nerve as well as their long-term vision.
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Would want to see continual building of the list, and not just the bottoming-out to peak cycle theory.
Create and maintain a culture of success and excellance so that the Tigers never have a drought period longer than this 1981 to 20?? - the longest premiership drought in the clubs history.
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As much as i would like to see us getting a Thorp, Hansen or Gumbleton next year, i hope we can at least get 10 wins like we did in this season, we need to build a mean winning mentatility in the young players. Hawthorn's approach to rebuilding may be getting them some of the best talent each year, but its ruining the mentatility of its players who will probably be accustomed to losing week in week out
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Would want to see continual building of the list, and not just the bottoming-out to peak cycle theory.
Create and maintain a culture of success and excellance so that the Tigers never have a drought period longer than this 1981 to 20?? - the longest premiership drought in the clubs history.
Agree Darth. IMO when you finally get near the top you still need to make tough calls to keep improving the playing list to stay up there. That's what we failed to do in 95 and 2001 and we fell quickly back down again.
IMV list your top 10 players from 1 to 10 and after the best six, trade one of the next best (preferably a midfielder as they are more easily and quickly replaceable than a tall) who has high trade value for at least a first round pick (late top 10 pick) and a earlish second rounder. That way despite finishing high on the ladder (and subsequently low in the draft order) the club will still then have two first round picks (say 10 and our 15) plus a pick in the early-mid 20's and the one we had already in the early 30's. Any future father/sons will be bonus in the third round (#40s).
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The pr machine for our tradeables must start to get into action. Anyone, who we want to offload must be talked up and rumours put about that clubs want them...a systematic, orchestrated, premeditated campaign. If Hawthorn can get 2 first rounders for Hay...then anything is possible.
This is a good tactic, a few names we can float around are:
Tivendale - if he gets back to his form prior to 2004-05 clubs looking for pace may look at him
JON - West Coast rated him this year's no.1, and according to PRE will go back to WA sooner or later, we could milk them for two first-rounders in next years super draft!
Krakouer - Over-rated in the footballing community because of his surname, could get some good dough for him
Meyer - Appears home-sick, and like JON we could milk two first-rounders from either Adelaide or Port if Meyer has a good year.
Rodan - Don't rate him much, bit would have some currency
Don't really want to see Meyer or JON leave the Tigers, but wouldn't shed a tear to see Krakouer, Rodan or Tiva go.
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JON and Meyer should not be willingly traded ... both are jets...fit perfectly into TWs plans. The others you mentioned should go!
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The way i look at it:
Year to year (no trade value)
P. Bowden
Chaffey
Moore
Roach
Stafford (Will retire after 2006 you'd think anyway!)
Tivendale
2 years max to prove themselves
Foley
Hartigan (Proved himself already?)
Hyde
Jackson
Raines
Rodan
Core youngsters group (no time frame)
Casserley
Hughes
Limbach
McGuane
Meyer
Oakley-Nicholls
Pattison
Polo
Schulz (See below)
Tambling
Thursfield
Core senior group/Untouchables
Bowden
Brown
Coughlan
Deledio
Gasper
Hall (See below)
Johnson
Kellaway
Newman
Richardson
Simmonds
Tuck
Trade bait
Knobel
Krakeour
Pettifer
Schulz - Doesn't turn 21 until about the start of the season, lost a fair bit of last season to injury and as we all know talls take longer to develop.
Hall - Has height and versatility that we cannot afford to lose, his ability to play defense, forward (Hawks game) and pinch hit in the ruck if we are desperate is undervalued by a lot of Richmond supporters, not to mention the guy can play!
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Hall - Has height and versatility that we cannot afford to lose, his ability to play defense, forward (Hawks game) and pinch hit in the ruck if we are desperate is undervalued by a lot of Richmond supporters, not to mention the guy can play!
i agree
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I may get some noses out of joint with what I am about to say and it is my opinion not an attention seeking stunt, but I don't think Kane Johnson should be classified as untouchable. I think he is a highly over rated player and we should trade him asap. He's slow, not a great leader, regularly makes ordinary use of the massive number of touches he gets and is an average kick but hey, he was in a crows premiership side! :banghead That's all well and good when you've got players around you like McLeod & Ricciuto who have this uncanny knack of making you look good.
Can anyone remember Kane Johnson taking a game by the scruff of the neck and turning adversity into triumph? Wayne Campbell did this on many occasions and he had more talent and intestinal fortitude in his left nut than Kane Johnson will ever have.
My comments are based purely on Kane's onfield performance as I know he is a great clubman.
My final comment is give me Brett Deledio's 15 touches over Kane Johnsons 32 any day. Look at the replays of last season and I'm sure you will be enlightened. 8)
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I also agree with Tiga that Johnson should be tradeable. But they wont do it. Remember getting Johnson cost us wells. Miller wont do it. Especially if they make a decision to try and trade schulz which in my opinion would be a mistake...but what happens if Port rocks up with 2 first rounders including a top 10?
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Jay's average driving record shouldn't pose a problem with Port's association to a major interstate trucking company either. ;)
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Johnson isn't an untouchable becuase of any elite skills he has, his untouchable because:
A) His our captain.
B) His a leader, and we need all the leaders we can get with all the kids we have.
C) He mightn't be a star, but he is a VERY consistent and solid performer, you can't have a team full of enigma's/streaky players, it just doesn't work.
D) Finals experience.
It's not like were in a sports management game, where you trade anyone over 26 years old for young guys with "potential", you do need older and wiser heads on the field and, as you said, around the club.
If Port rocks up with two 1st rounders including a top 10 for Schulz, well, then we (very ironically) pull a Schulzy just without the driving! ;)
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I may get some noses out of joint with what I am about to say and it is my opinion not an attention seeking stunt, but I don't think Kane Johnson should be classified as untouchable. I think he is a highly over rated player and we should trade him asap. He's slow, not a great leader, regularly makes ordinary use of the massive number of touches he gets and is an average kick but hey, he was in a crows premiership side! :banghead That's all well and good when you've got players around you like McLeod & Ricciuto who have this uncanny knack of making you look good.
This could be the end of a beautiful friendship lol :rollin :lol
Although he's had better years (still had a good 2005 IMHO) and he's really only a B-grader, Johnson's disposal efficiency (see below) is better than most and as Razor said he's consistently solid in the guts and/or around the ground each and every week. He won't be traded.
Our only true A-grade player sadly is Browny and that is the main problem. We as a team aren't good enough yet. We lack pace to win the footy once the ball spills wide of a contest or stoppage so we get smashed by hard running opposition midfields. Plus our skills and footy brains as a team overall aren't good enough either. That's why we've drafted the likes of Lids, Tambling, Meyer, Oakley-Nicholls and Casserley. To add speed and skill to our midfield that's been missing all these years. We must hold onto them.
Player | Games (>15) | Avg Disp. | Errors | Err/Disp (%)
Kellaway 15 15.3 1.0 6.5
Newman 21 15.6 1.4 9.0
Johnson 17 22.8 2.2 9.6
Deledio 21 15.1 1.5 9.9
Coughlan 21 22.0 2.4 10.9
Cambo 21 18.6 2.1 11.3
Bowden 21 22.9 2.7 11.8
Tuck 21 24.1 2.9 12.0
Hyde 16 16.0 2.2 13.8
Brown 10 20.5 3.0 14.6
Tivs 19 16.5 2.6 15.8
Chaffey 17 13.8 2.2 15.9
Hall 16 11.9 1.9 15.9
Gaspar 19 11.5 1.9 16.5
Pettifer 21 13.4 2.5 18.7
Krakouer 19 11.2 2.5 22.3
Simmo 21 13.3 3.3 24.8
Knobel 18 8.3 2.8 33.7
Richo 21 13.9 5.0 35.9
http://www.pro-stats.com.au/psw/web/team_player_rankings?yr=2005&rt=TA&fc=E10&tid=112
Footnote: Kicking behinds are counted as errors so that's why Richo, Browny and Simmonds' error figures are inflated. You would need to subtract scoring disposals from these stats to get an exact picture of field disposals.
Can anyone remember Kane Johnson taking a game by the scruff of the neck and turning adversity into triumph? Wayne Campbell did this on many occasions and he had more talent and intestinal fortitude in his left nut than Kane Johnson will ever have.
Cambo was also accused of this by many Tiger supporters especially prior to 2003 because we sucked in the midfield and had no depth thanks to previous coaching and recruiting staff. We could have had Sugar for Holland don't forget but we caved in to more $$$ :(. Cambo copped all the blame because he had the letter (c) after his name and he was no Voss, Hird or Carey. In modern footy you need at least 10 midfielders in your rotation to win most games. We were lucky to have 5-6 this year and once injury started to toll as the year went along we tired and fell away. Hopefully some of the younger guys like Hyde, Tambling, Meyer, Polo, Raines and Krakouer can step up this year to share the midfield workload that's being carried by Cogs, Tuck and Johnson along with Lids and possibly Browny (fingers crossed) joining in.
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Year to year (no trade value)
P. Bowden, Chaffey, Moore, Roach
Stafford (Will retire after 2006 you'd think anyway!)
Tivendale
Knobel is no guarantee either. Chaffey I'd reckon will retire also.
2 years max to prove themselves
Foley, Hartigan, Hyde, Jackson, Raines, Rodan
I would have Schulz, Limbach and McGuane in this group also. Krakouer still needs to prove himself also.
Core senior group/Untouchables
Bowden, Brown, Coughlan, Deledio, Gaspar, Hall, Johnson, Kellaway, Newman, Richardson, Simmonds, Tuck
That's a large group of untouchables for a team that finished 12th. I wouldn't be surprised if one of them isn't at Tigerland in 2007 as part of getting another one or two first round picks. Which one will depend on what happens next year.
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Knobel is no guarantee either. Chaffey I'd reckon will retire also.
Knobel is a tradeable asset, as teams are always looking for a half-decent ruckmen.
I would have Schulz, Limbach and McGuane in this group also. Krakouer still needs to prove himself also.
Schulz can be easily argued one way or another, Limbach maybe but not McGuane (bottom-age pick who missed around 1/2 the season with injury), Krakeour is a tradeable asset.
That's a large group of untouchables for a team that finished 12th. I wouldn't be surprised if one of them isn't at Tigerland in 2007 as part of getting another one or two first round picks. Which one will depend on what happens next year.
For one reason or another we need every single one of these players whether it'd be for leadership reasons (Bowden, Brown, Johnson, Richo) to keep our poohty defense afloat (Gasper, Kellaway, Hall), becuase they are our future (Coughlan, Deledio, Newman, Tuck) or because of how useful a no.1 ruckmen who can play in the forward line is (Simmonds).
Also im taking into consideration that Richo, Gasper and Kellaway are up for retirement in the next 2-3 years!
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Excellant debate RB & MT with interesting analysis.
My 2 cents worth re Suga who was carrying major knee soreness in 2005 season. Still rate Suga in the top 8 at RFC and will be a major contributor to the stabilisation of the RFC list into a consistent top 4 side in the next 4 to 5 seasons.
In relation to the Meyer and JO-N "return home factor", provide an environment of excellance at RFC, with the modern facilities at a re-vamped Punt Road, and have on-field success. In short, make RFC a club that has players clammering to join and difficult to leave unless it is an RFC list decision.
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Well said Darth.
IMO this return-home factor around Oaks and Meyer is baseless rumour. The club has a good record with regard to players coming from interstate.
For one reason or another we need every single one of these players whether it'd be for leadership reasons (Bowden, Brown, Johnson, Richo) to keep our poohty defense afloat (Gasper, Kellaway, Hall), becuase they are our future (Coughlan, Deledio, Newman, Tuck) or because of how useful a no.1 ruckmen who can play in the forward line is (Simmonds).
Also im taking into consideration that Richo, Gasper and Kellaway are up for retirement in the next 2-3 years!
I'm not disagreeing with that but to get another first round pick or two in the supposed superdraft next year we will need to give up someone of reasonable value. Then again maybe Laidley will come to our rescue and give up all the Roos' early picks again for someone on par with Thompson or Hay :o.
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The pr machine for our tradeables must start to get into action. Anyone, who we want to offload must be talked up and rumours put about that clubs want them...a systematic, orchestrated, premeditated campaign. If Hawthorn can get 2 first rounders for Hay...then anything is possible.
This is a good tactic, a few names we can float around are:
Tivendale - if he gets back to his form prior to 2004-05 clubs looking for pace may look at him
JON - West Coast rated him this year's no.1, and according to PRE will go back to WA sooner or later, we could milk them for two first-rounders in next years super draft!
Krakouer - Over-rated in the footballing community because of his surname, could get some good dough for him
Meyer - Appears home-sick, and like JON we could milk two first-rounders from either Adelaide or Port if Meyer has a good year.
Rodan - Don't rate him much, bit would have some currency
Don't really want to see Meyer or JON leave the Tigers, but wouldn't shed a tear to see Krakouer, Rodan or Tiva go.
One more for you Tuck- Would, if he performs anything like he did this year, have great trade value.
I don't want to see him go but Tuck to Dawks for two first rounders? Or a first rounder and one of those many young talls that they currently have?
But in all honesty I don't really want to lose any of the mentioned players, we have the potencial for a very good team in the near future.
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One more for you Tuck- Would, if he performs anything like he did this year, have great trade value.
FFS if he performs like he did last year he is the LAST player you'd want to trade.
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Of course Tuck has trade value, do does frikken Deledio, but you don't see many/any people saying we should trade him!
Richmond might be poo drafters overall, but our ability to get AFL competent players with picks in the 70's is simply put freaky!
Hall, Kellaway, Zantuck, Tuck, Hartigan, did i miss anyone?
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Richmond might be pooh drafters overall, but our ability to get AFL competent players with picks in the 70's is simply put freaky!
Hall, Kellaway, Zantuck, Tuck, Hartigan, did i miss anyone?
Good ol' Greg Beck ;D
Raines if he steps up next year would be another one (pick 73, 2003). Hyde was also redrafted at pick 68, 2001.
Chubba came from our reserves and other clubs were probably put off by Duncan's kicking "skills" lol. Still pick 71 was a great get.