One More Year of Rebuilding

[PuntRdRoar]

I also agree with Tiga that Johnson should be tradeable. But they wont do it. Remember getting Johnson cost us wells. Miller wont do it. Especially if they make a decision to try and trade schulz which in my opinion would be a mistake...but what happens if Port rocks up with 2 first rounders including a top 10?

[tiga]

Jay's average driving record shouldn't pose a problem with Port's association to a major interstate trucking company either. 

[Razorblade]

Johnson isn't an untouchable becuase of any elite skills he has, his untouchable because:
A) His our captain.
B) His a leader, and we need all the leaders we can get with all the kids we have.
C) He mightn't be a star, but he is a VERY consistent and solid performer, you can't have a team full of enigma's/streaky players, it just doesn't work.
D) Finals experience.

It's not like were in a sports management game, where you trade anyone over 26 years old for young guys with "potential", you do need older and wiser heads on the field and, as you said, around the club.

If Port rocks up with two 1st rounders including a top 10 for Schulz, well, then we (very ironically) pull a Schulzy just without the driving! 

[mightytiges]

I may get some noses out of joint with what I am about to say and it is my opinion not an attention seeking stunt, but I don't think Kane Johnson should be classified as untouchable. I think he is a highly over rated player and we should trade him asap. He's slow, not a great leader, regularly makes ordinary use of the massive number of touches he gets and is an average kick but hey, he was in a crows premiership side!  That's all well and good when you've got players around you like McLeod & Ricciuto who have this uncanny knack of making you look good.

This could be the end of a beautiful friendship lol  

Although he's had better years (still had a good 2005 IMHO) and he's really only a B-grader, Johnson's disposal efficiency (see below) is better than most and as Razor said he's consistently solid in the guts and/or around the ground each and every week. He won't be traded. 

Our only true A-grade player sadly is Browny and that is the main problem. We as a team aren't good enough yet. We lack pace to win the footy once the ball spills wide of a contest or stoppage so we get smashed by hard running opposition midfields. Plus our skills and footy brains as a team overall aren't good enough either. That's why we've drafted the likes of Lids, Tambling, Meyer, Oakley-Nicholls and Casserley. To add speed and skill to our midfield that's been missing all these years. We must hold onto them.

Player  |   Games (>15) | Avg Disp. |   Errors  |  Err/Disp (%)

Kellaway  15    15.3    1.0      6.5
Newman   21   15.6     1.4      9.0
Johnson   17   22.8     2.2      9.6
Deledio    21   15.1     1.5       9.9
Coughlan  21   22.0    2.4     10.9
Cambo     21   18.6    2.1     11.3
Bowden    21   22.9    2.7     11.8
Tuck        21    24.1    2.9     12.0
Hyde       16    16.0    2.2     13.8
Brown      10   20.5    3.0     14.6
Tivs         19    16.5    2.6     15.8
Chaffey    17   13.8    2.2     15.9
Hall          16   11.9    1.9     15.9
Gaspar     19   11.5    1.9     16.5
Pettifer     21   13.4    2.5     18.7
Krakouer  19   11.2    2.5     22.3
Simmo     21   13.3    3.3     24.8
Knobel     18     8.3    2.8     33.7
Richo       21   13.9    5.0     35.9
       
http://www.pro-stats.com.au/psw/web/team_player_rankings?yr=2005&rt=TA&fc=E10&tid=112

Footnote: Kicking behinds are counted as errors so that's why Richo, Browny and Simmonds' error figures are inflated. You would need to subtract scoring disposals from these stats to get an exact picture of field disposals. 

Can anyone remember Kane Johnson taking a game by the scruff of the neck and turning adversity into triumph? Wayne Campbell did this on many occasions and he had more talent and intestinal fortitude in his left nut than Kane Johnson will ever have.

Cambo was also accused of this by many Tiger supporters especially prior to 2003 because we sucked in the midfield and had no depth thanks to previous coaching and recruiting staff. We could have had Sugar for Holland don't forget but we caved in to more $$$ . Cambo copped all the blame because he had the letter (c) after his name and he was no Voss, Hird or Carey.  In modern footy you need at least 10 midfielders in your rotation to win most games. We were lucky to have 5-6 this year and once injury started to toll as the year went along we tired and fell away. Hopefully some of the younger guys like Hyde, Tambling, Meyer, Polo, Raines and Krakouer can step up this year to share the midfield workload that's being carried by Cogs, Tuck and Johnson along with Lids and possibly Browny (fingers crossed) joining in.   

[mightytiges]

Year to year (no trade value)
P. Bowden, Chaffey, Moore, Roach
Stafford (Will retire after 2006 you'd think anyway!)
Tivendale

Knobel is no guarantee either. Chaffey I'd reckon will retire also.

2 years max to prove themselves
Foley, Hartigan, Hyde, Jackson, Raines, Rodan

I would have Schulz, Limbach and McGuane in this group also. Krakouer still needs to prove himself also.

Core senior group/Untouchables
Bowden, Brown, Coughlan, Deledio, Gaspar, Hall, Johnson, Kellaway, Newman, Richardson, Simmonds, Tuck

That's a large group of untouchables for a team that finished 12th. I wouldn't be surprised if one of them isn't at Tigerland in 2007 as part of getting another one or two first round picks. Which one will depend on what happens next year.

[Razorblade]

Knobel is no guarantee either. Chaffey I'd reckon will retire also.

Knobel is a tradeable asset, as teams are always looking for a half-decent ruckmen.

I would have Schulz, Limbach and McGuane in this group also. Krakouer still needs to prove himself also.

Schulz can be easily argued one way or another, Limbach maybe but not McGuane (bottom-age pick who missed around 1/2 the season with injury), Krakeour is a tradeable asset.

That's a large group of untouchables for a team that finished 12th. I wouldn't be surprised if one of them isn't at Tigerland in 2007 as part of getting another one or two first round picks. Which one will depend on what happens next year.

For one reason or another we need every single one of these players whether it'd be for leadership reasons (Bowden, Brown, Johnson, Richo) to keep our poohty defense afloat (Gasper, Kellaway, Hall), becuase they are our future (Coughlan, Deledio, Newman, Tuck) or because of how useful a no.1 ruckmen who can play in the forward line is (Simmonds).

Also im taking into consideration that Richo, Gasper and Kellaway are up for retirement in the next 2-3 years!

[Darth Tiger]

Excellant debate RB & MT with interesting analysis.

My 2 cents worth re Suga who was carrying major knee soreness in 2005 season.  Still rate Suga in the top 8 at RFC and will be a major contributor to the stabilisation of the RFC list into a consistent top 4 side in the next 4 to 5 seasons.

In relation to the Meyer and JO-N "return home factor", provide an environment of excellance at RFC, with the modern facilities at a re-vamped Punt Road, and have on-field success.  In short, make RFC a club that has players clammering to join and difficult to leave unless it is an RFC list decision.

[mightytiges]

Well said Darth.

IMO this return-home factor around Oaks and Meyer is baseless rumour. The club has a good record with regard to players coming from interstate.

For one reason or another we need every single one of these players whether it'd be for leadership reasons (Bowden, Brown, Johnson, Richo) to keep our poohty defense afloat (Gasper, Kellaway, Hall), becuase they are our future (Coughlan, Deledio, Newman, Tuck) or because of how useful a no.1 ruckmen who can play in the forward line is (Simmonds).

Also im taking into consideration that Richo, Gasper and Kellaway are up for retirement in the next 2-3 years!

I'm not disagreeing with that but to get another first round pick or two in the supposed superdraft next year we will need to give up someone of reasonable value. Then again maybe Laidley will come to our rescue and give up all the Roos' early picks again for someone on par with Thompson or Hay  .

[H Tiger]

The pr machine for our tradeables must start to get into action. Anyone, who we want to offload must be talked up and rumours put about that clubs want them...a systematic, orchestrated, premeditated campaign. If Hawthorn can get 2 first rounders for Hay...then anything is possible.

This is a good tactic, a few names we can float around are:
Tivendale - if he gets back to his form prior to 2004-05 clubs looking for pace may look at him
JON - West Coast rated him this year's no.1, and according to PRE will go back to WA sooner or later, we could milk them for two first-rounders in next years super draft!
Krakouer - Over-rated in the footballing community because of his surname, could get some good dough for him
Meyer - Appears home-sick, and like JON we could milk two first-rounders from either Adelaide or Port if Meyer has a good year.
Rodan - Don't rate him much, bit would have some currency

Don't really want to see Meyer or JON leave the Tigers, but wouldn't shed a tear to see Krakouer, Rodan or Tiva go.

One more for you Tuck- Would, if he performs anything like he did this year, have great trade value.

I don't want to see him go but Tuck to Dawks for two first rounders? Or a first rounder and one of those many young talls that they currently have?

But in all honesty I don't really want to lose any of the mentioned players, we have the potencial for a very good team in the near future.

[the_boy_jake]

One more for you Tuck- Would, if he performs anything like he did this year, have great trade value.

FFS if he performs like he did last year he is the LAST player you'd want to trade.

[Razorblade]

Of course Tuck has trade value, do does frikken Deledio, but you don't see many/any people saying we should trade him!

Richmond might be poo drafters overall, but our ability to get AFL competent players with picks in the 70's is simply put freaky!

Hall, Kellaway, Zantuck, Tuck, Hartigan, did i miss anyone?

[mightytiges]

Richmond might be pooh drafters overall, but our ability to get AFL competent players with picks in the 70's is simply put freaky!

Hall, Kellaway, Zantuck, Tuck, Hartigan, did i miss anyone?

Good ol' Greg Beck 

Raines if he steps up next year would be another one (pick 73, 2003). Hyde was also redrafted at pick 68, 2001.

Chubba came from our reserves and other clubs were probably put off by Duncan's kicking "skills" lol. Still pick 71 was a great get.