One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: one-eyed on December 03, 2016, 10:08:55 PM
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Kevin Bartlett slams effort and attitude of Richmond playing group in 2016
GLENN McFARLANE
Herald Sun
December 3, 2016 6:30pm
RICHMOND legend Kevin Bartlett has savaged the attitude of the Tigers’ 2016 playing group, saying there were times this year when it played as if it didn’t care.
The AFL legend and five-time Tigers’ premiership player believes attitude more than talent was the reason why the club slumped to 13th on the ladder, winning only eight games.
“I thought the efforts towards the end of the year were very poor,” Bartlett said.
“They were insipid and played like they couldn’t care less.”
“You could say at times it looked like they didn’t even try, such was the poor performance.”
After three consecutive finals appearances, albeit without a finals win in that time, Richmond endured a year from hell this season with pressure mounting on coach Damien Hardwick and bringing about an overhaul of the football department and the assistant coaching staff.
The Tigers lost five of their last six games this year, including deficits of 113, 88 and 70, and Bartlett puts much of the blame on the players’ mindset.
“Richmond has talent, but somewhere along the way they lost the thread and as a result in the end they became a rabble,” he said.
“When you kick three goals against the Giants (Round 19), the lowest score since 1961; when you kick four goals against St Kilda with 60 seconds to go (Round 22); and when you kick two goals to 22 at three-quarter-time against Sydney; you have got to say there is something intrinsicly wrong with the attitude of the players.”
Bartlett is confident the arrival of Neil Balme as head of football will make a significant difference to the club next year.
“This is where Neil Balme has his biggest challenge, in getting people thinking vastly different to the way they were thinking in 2016,” he said.
“I’m not concerned about the talent — Richmond has got a lot of talent. It has got one of the best defenders in the competition (Alex Rance), it has got one of the best forwards in the competition (Jack Riewoldt), and it has got a few of the best midfielders in the competition (Trent Cotchin and Dustin Martin).
“What you have to work on is the attitude of the players (as a whole). It is a matter of turning all that around and trying to find out why they didn’t have the enthusiasm to compete together, especially when you see a side like the Western Bulldogs winning the premiership by running in numbers and helping each other.”
Bartlett said the Bulldogs’ fairytale success — brought about by a team-first mantra — proved that clubs do not need long-term plans and long-range premiership models to guide their future.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/richmond/kevin-bartlett-slams-effort-and-attitude-of-richmond-playing-group-in-2016/news-story/f12e956cda0c00045ae66a030f9fdaec
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More revelations from last season...
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Another take....?
Maybe this is where Jack R stepped in 2 years ago and IMO rattled Hardwicks cage and got the game plan thrown out, the team responded magnificently, and Jack got himself kicked out of the leadership group.
This year he just couldn't be stuffed going through all the personal angst and drama again and nor could anyone else fight against Hardwicks stubborness...except Lids who just had to go to preserve his sanity?
All the favourites agree to follow the crappy game plan and get games, those who don't get dropped.
All this causes massive disunity and the type of year we just had.
Whether on the money or not, something ain't quite right at Richmond.
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All the favourites agree to follow the pooty game plan and get games, those who don't get dropped.
If you were coaching a football side you would do the opposite?
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All the favourites agree to follow the pooty game plan and get games, those who don't get dropped.
If you were coaching a football side you would do the opposite?
No, but do you think our game plan is embraced by the players?
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and that has what to do with keeping players in that follow the game plan and dropping those that dont?
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If you aint got the right attitude you shouldnt be in the team because the coach stated that his team wont let the jumper hit the floor...when are they going to get rid of the attitude wrecker?
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and that has what to do with keeping players in that follow the game plan and dropping those that dont?
Because the players heart is not in it.
I think Hardwick is teetering on the edge of losing the playing group (IMHO), they certainly didn't seem to have much passion in the last 4 games of the year.
But happy to be proven wrong next year.
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and that has what to do with keeping players in that follow the game plan and dropping those that dont?
Because the players heart is not in it.
I think Hardwick is teetering on the edge of losing the playing group (IMHO), they certainly didn't seem to have much passion in the last 4 games of the year.
But happy to be proven wrong next year.
The problem we have is that we complain when we win useless games at the end of the year and we complain when we lose them by saying the coach has lost the group..... :banghead :banghead
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and that has what to do with keeping players in that follow the game plan and dropping those that dont?
Because the players heart is not in it.
I think Hardwick is teetering on the edge of losing the playing group (IMHO), they certainly didn't seem to have much passion in the last 4 games of the year.
But happy to be proven wrong next year.
The problem we have is that we complain when we win useless games at the end of the year and we complain when we lose them by saying the coach has lost the group..... :banghead :banghead
I think you are mixing up losing and getting reamed by 100+. Not to mention that the complaints are more about the standard of footy, or lack of any standard. Our problem is that there is to much comfort afforded personnel whp get paid well, and they have a laugh at the next insipid effort, when supporters who have put up their hard earned to pay their salaries are laughed at by the wider footy public for once again being bent over.
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Of course KB is right when he slams the effort and attitude, how many years have we complained about this very thing from so many of our players.It is nothing new people.
KB makes a good point, but he also misses the big one when he says we have talent. We have some talent but the bitter truth is is we have never ever had anywhere near enough . It's amazing how often this important point is rarely mentioned by tiger people.
We dont have the cattle and we are in a dog eat dog fight with 17 other clubs for improvement just another point that is always over looked.
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and that has what to do with keeping players in that follow the game plan and dropping those that dont?
Because the players heart is not in it.
I think Hardwick is teetering on the edge of losing the playing group (IMHO), they certainly didn't seem to have much passion in the last 4 games of the year.
But happy to be proven wrong next year.
The problem we have is that we complain when we win useless games at the end of the year and we complain when we lose them by saying the coach has lost the group..... :banghead :banghead
I think you are mixing up losing and getting reamed by 100+. Not to mention that the complaints are more about the standard of footy, or lack of any standard. Our problem is that there is to much comfort afforded personnel whp get paid well, and they have a laugh at the next insipid effort, when supporters who have put up their hard earned to pay their salaries are laughed at by the wider footy public for once again being bent over.
Players were already thinking of their end of season trips. Not good enough? Definitely. Embarrassing? Yes. Important? Not so sure. We have quickly moved on from there I hope. Our start to this year will tell us how important that ending was. Time will definitely tell.
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and that has what to do with keeping players in that follow the game plan and dropping those that dont?
Because the players heart is not in it.
I think Hardwick is teetering on the edge of losing the playing group (IMHO), they certainly didn't seem to have much passion in the last 4 games of the year.
But happy to be proven wrong next year.
Are you suggesting that some players deliberately dont execute the game plan?
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and that has what to do with keeping players in that follow the game plan and dropping those that dont?
Because the players heart is not in it.
I think Hardwick is teetering on the edge of losing the playing group (IMHO), they certainly didn't seem to have much passion in the last 4 games of the year.
But happy to be proven wrong next year.
The problem we have is that we complain when we win useless games at the end of the year and we complain when we lose them by saying the coach has lost the group..... :banghead :banghead
I think you are mixing up losing and getting reamed by 100+. Not to mention that the complaints are more about the standard of footy, or lack of any standard. Our problem is that there is to much comfort afforded personnel whp get paid well, and they have a laugh at the next insipid effort, when supporters who have put up their hard earned to pay their salaries are laughed at by the wider footy public for once again being bent over.
Players were already thinking of their end of season trips. Not good enough? Definitely. Embarrassing? Yes. Important? Not so sure.We have quickly moved on from there I hope. Our start to this year will tell us how important that ending was. Time will definitely tell.
It will be evident before the start of the year. Things were going pear shaped well before R1 this year, to the extent where we suffered the embarrassment of the coach asking for a game to be called off. That was the pre-cursor to what he was going to offer the playing group.
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and that has what to do with keeping players in that follow the game plan and dropping those that dont?
Because the players heart is not in it.
I think Hardwick is teetering on the edge of losing the playing group (IMHO), they certainly didn't seem to have much passion in the last 4 games of the year.
But happy to be proven wrong next year.
Are you suggesting that some players deliberately dont execute the game plan?
I think there is alot discussed about a game plan and IMO it looks like players are not executing the game plan, because there isnt a game plan. Keepings off isnt a game plan.
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My take on it is the 2016 game plan was rehashed 2015 (keepings off as some posters alluded to) and every club had a strategy to counter that strategy. Most damning though was we didn't have the personnel to run and spread because of the players we had at our disposal but probably didn't train for it because the players always looked lost when they set up zones.
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and that has what to do with keeping players in that follow the game plan and dropping those that dont?
Because the players heart is not in it.
I think Hardwick is teetering on the edge of losing the playing group (IMHO), they certainly didn't seem to have much passion in the last 4 games of the year.
But happy to be proven wrong next year.
Are you suggesting that some players deliberately dont execute the game plan?
I think there is alot discussed about a game plan and IMO it looks like players are not executing the game plan, because there isnt a game plan. Keepings off isnt a game plan.
just because you cant see something it doesn't mean that it doesnt exist
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and that has what to do with keeping players in that follow the game plan and dropping those that dont?
Because the players heart is not in it.
I think Hardwick is teetering on the edge of losing the playing group (IMHO), they certainly didn't seem to have much passion in the last 4 games of the year.
But happy to be proven wrong next year.
Are you suggesting that some players deliberately dont execute the game plan?
I think there is alot discussed about a game plan and IMO it looks like players are not executing the game plan, because there isnt a game plan. Keepings off isnt a game plan.
just because you cant see something it doesn't mean that it doesnt exist
Is that the opposite to a mirage, where you see something that doesnt exist?
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one is delusional while the other is arrogant stupidity.
you honestly believe that the coach of an AFL football club would actually not have a game plan besides "keepings off", with all those other experienced football people around him in agreeance?
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one is delusional while the other is arrogant stupidity.
you honestly believe that the coach of an AFL football club would actually not have a game plan besides "keepings off", with all those other experienced football people around him in agreeance?
No, I honestly believe that the coach of an AFL team should have a game plan, the issue is I also honestly believe we dont have an AFL coach at the helm. its pretty obvious that right now the only reason the coach remained was because of the extension and the fiscal hit the club would have had to take, couple with the upcoming election. So we are going to basically tread water with a dead man walking coach, who knows quite clearly that he has a used by date, get some games into youngsters and ready the list for the next appointment. If you think otherwise that can be constituted as delusional or might even reach the heights of sutpidity
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That would be all well and good it i was asking if you think there is no game plane.
Most of that dribble i havnt even discussed, and is on complete different tangent to what i asked, so how you would think you know what i believe is bewildering
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and that has what to do with keeping players in that follow the game plan and dropping those that dont?
Because the players heart is not in it.
I think Hardwick is teetering on the edge of losing the playing group (IMHO), they certainly didn't seem to have much passion in the last 4 games of the year.
But happy to be proven wrong next year.
The problem we have is that we complain when we win useless games at the end of the year and we complain when we lose them by saying the coach has lost the group..... :banghead :banghead
I think you are mixing up losing and getting reamed by 100+. Not to mention that the complaints are more about the standard of footy, or lack of any standard. Our problem is that there is to much comfort afforded personnel whp get paid well, and they have a laugh at the next insipid effort, when supporters who have put up their hard earned to pay their salaries are laughed at by the wider footy public for once again being bent over.
Players were already thinking of their end of season trips. Not good enough? Definitely. Embarrassing? Yes. Important? Not so sure.We have quickly moved on from there I hope. Our start to this year will tell us how important that ending was. Time will definitely tell.
It will be evident before the start of the year. Things were going pear shaped well before R1 this year, to the extent where we suffered the embarrassment of the coach asking for a game to be called off. That was the pre-cursor to what he was going to offer the playing group.
100% agree on that.
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That would be all well and good it i was asking if you think there is no game plane.
Most of that dribble i havnt even discussed, and is on complete different tangent to what i asked, so how you would think you know what i believe is bewildering
Ooops yeah, sorry, no i dont think there is anything remotely like a game plan and it showed. The issue is that to have a game plan you need concrete anchors to underpin it, ie a ruck man that will tap the ball to a spot and succeed x% the time, or have a KPP who will take a contested mark x% of the time or hit up and take a mark x% of the time. We had nothing remotely like that and what we witnessed was a desperate attempt to seem like we did have a plan. It was that bad, that it even touched on tanking. So to cut to the chase, if we actually did have a game plan then we are in real deep poo, because whover hatched it, thought they had the personnel there to execute it, which is a huge concern.
P.S your question was "you honestly believe that the coach of an AFL football club would actually not have a game plan besides "keepings off",...my answer was, I honestly believe that the coach of an AFL team should have a game plan, the issue is I also honestly believe we dont have an AFL coach at the helm.
I will amend that to make it easier for you to understand to:
I honestly believe that the coach of an AFL team should have a game plan and by and large most do, the issue is I also honestly believe we dont have an AFL coach at the helm so keepings off is all we have as a game plan.
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finally, the penny drops
if we actually did have a game plan then we are in real deep poo, because whover hatched it, thought they had the personnel there to execute it, which is a huge concern.
why do you think they changed over a few assistants?
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Because they couldn't afford to sack the head idiot and pay him out?
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finally, the penny drops
if we actually did have a game plan then we are in real deep poo, because whover hatched it, thought they had the personnel there to execute it, which is a huge concern.
why do you think they changed over a few assistants?
It was obvious to alot of supporters during the year that they were found wanting on game day :banghead After they were on the cusp of top 4 reaching finals 3 times in 3 years and locked and loaded and according to our coach with the best list he has had in his time :rollin
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I remember our "keepings off" game plan getting everyone all excited and frisky when we knocked off Hawthorn and how enthusiastic everyone was for finals. How times change
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Some supporters always knew that "big boy month" is September, not June...Hawthorn have also always known this... :shh
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Because they couldn't afford to sack the head idiot and pay him out?
partially, but for some reason it seems that the powers that be think that the reason that the players were not capably of executing the game plan was the assistants.
While there probably is some merit to that, it is unlikely to be wholly and solely the problem
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Some supporters always knew that "big boy month" is September, not June...Hawthorn have also always known this... :shh
Don't doubt this but I think it was in August :shh :lol
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KB says we have one of the best defenders in the competition. I'd argue he is THE best defender in the comp at the moment given a few retirements at Hawthorn and the age of Luke Hodge.
But (and this will tax the one eyed memories) is Alex Rance the best defender in the history of the RFC?
He's clearly better than Scotty Thompson or Darren Gaspar or Joel Bowden or either Kellaway.
Better than Jim Jess but do the old timers know anyone better from the past? Nearly all our historical greats I can think of are midfielders or forwards.
Can anyone name a better one?
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To add to that these are the 6 backs in the team of the century
Backs
Kevin Sheedy 1967 - 1979 251 games, 88 goals Premierships 1969, 1973 & 1974
Victor Thorp 1910 - 1925 263 games, 7 goals Premierships 1920 & 1921
Michael Green 1966 - 1971, 1973 - 1975 148 games, 83 goals Premierships 1967, 1969, 1973 & 1974
Half Backs
Basil McCormack 1925 - 1936 200 games, 1 goal Premierships 1932 & 1934
Gordon Strang 1931 - 1936, 1938 116 games, 107 goals Premierships 1932 & 1934
Mervyn Keane 1972 - 198x 238 games, 36 goals Premierships 1973, 1974 & 1980
Would Rance be better than Keane ,Green or Sheedy. And to make the team those guys from the 30's are just going by their stats and articles in the paper of the time. Very hard to compare in reality.
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Rance would be one of the top few players in the entire competition, not just best defender, but hard to make a strong case to replace multiple premiership players in the team of the century when he is 0 in that column IMO.
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using that same line of logic, it is hard to to make a strong a case that he is in the top few players in the comp, as there are quite a few getting about with multiple premierships..
It also means that Brad Hill is a better player than Bob Skilton was
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That's true, but how else would you measure it looking back in 30 years? A few AAs and a B&F is a pretty fair start.
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its always hard to compare players from different eras. Its one of those times its impossible not to have a fair chunk of subjectivity in it, and naturally people will tend to lean towards those they have actually seen play, Consensus is rare on these things
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its always hard to compare players from different eras. Its one of those times its impossible not to have a fair chunk of subjectivity in it, and naturally people will tend to lean towards those they have actually seen play, Consensus is rare on these things
As Bart Cummings once said "Champions are to be admired, not compared"