One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: mightytiges on September 22, 2018, 12:08:17 AM
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Not the time to make final decisions straight after that shocker last night but in hindsight there's quite a few things that need to be answered and rectified over the off-season.
* Were we primed and at our peak for the finals? Both AFL & VFL teams failed to reach the big dance after finishing the H/A season top of the ladder. We clearly didn't turn up to play last night.
* Playing injured & sick players in a knockout final? Dusty was cleary hampered as he hardly kicked the footy while Astbury was sick. I posted in the game thread that Andy Maher was saying this arvo that there were rumours that Astbury wasn't the only one affected by the 'flu'. Was this true or false?
* Will our smaller forward win us another flag? Obviously our forward line changes next year with both Jack & Lynch playing alongside each other.
* Our ruck stocks? It's Nank then daylight on our list. Grundy & Cox destroyed us (Grundy record hitouts in a final, Pies had 20-6 hitouts to advantage). Gave them first use of the footy. More concerning, our clearance numbers have been down all season which wasn't the case in 2017. We've got away with it this year by the way we set-up but last night we paid the price.
* Is our list good enough to dust themselves off, reset and go again with minor tweaks or have they reached their limit and we need more significant changes?
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Of course there has to be some changes.
The great clubs don't just go back to the well or pick up a guy like Lynch and say "that's all we need".
Constantly need to adapt/change.
If Grigg/Houli/Conca are all walk up starts next season then we may still win it but we'd be pretty lucky
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For all the glaring deficiencies that were exposed tonight, Dusty goes in fully fit tonight and we win.
/thread :shh
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No major changes needed, our systems work, I think someone during the year said it would take a team to play the perfect game of football to knock us off at the G, the Pies played that game tonight.
We dust ourselves off and maybe apply a few tweaks to the game plan plus some new additions to the playing list and I am confident we will be right up there challenging again next season.
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The Grigg ruck experiment is gone.Need a ruck forward type simple as that lacking height in side.Even with Lynch coming won't solve that.We need to change game plan a bit to predictable now for me.
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the real question that needs to be answered is how can we go to a mid table clearance side?
It cost us tonight in a big way. Do we need another bull of a mid?
cant see anyone out there that we could get to fill this void TBH
some really obvious changes apart from peeing that wanker conca off is
out georgie, in stengle/bolton
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No major changes needed, our systems work, I think someone during the year said it would take a team to play the perfect game of football to knock us off at the G, the Pies played that game tonight.
We dust ourselves off and maybe apply a few tweaks to the game plan plus some new additions to the playing list and I am confident we will be right up there challenging again next season.
We need another quality mid, our midfield doesn’t bat deep enough.
The Conca /BEllis types aren’t gonna cut it in finals.
Need to find a quality ball extractor. We can’t continue conceding centre clearences.
We need better wingman also.
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Could have had the greatest team ever assembled, we weren't gunna win tonight. Could see it from the 3 minute mark.
Just gotta swallow it and move on, Shame, but they were way too good tonight,
Conca - love ya but YEESH stinky tonight.
Astbury - LOVE ya but yipes - one of your worst.
Chip up and fly right for next year!
:-[
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Conca is just terrible with decision making. Turnover central. Was slipping over at the start of the game same as were a couple of others like fools with the wrong footwear on which made my blood boil, didn't see opposition players doing that. Not good enough in a final. Grigg should be polyfilla for next year, he is slow as a wet week, Houli headed that way too. Frappin out with crap picks is a shyte waste of a year imo. We have some good young blokes coming through but these grandfinal chances are so bloody tough to get.
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I hope the following players never line up for us again:
B Ellis
C Menadue
R Conca
C Ellis
Terrible decision to play the likes of Dusty and Astbury. Should have been Garthwaite and Butler out there.
Nank tries hard but he will always be beaten by those genuinely tall and athletic rucks. He's just a battler and it was horribly exposed last night.
Small forward line has also run its race. Pies had extra in the D50 all night last night and a midfield/wing zone setup that consistently forced us to kick long into the F50.
Missed Butler last night. We looked slow, which is strange.
Need another big-bodied midfielder. Someone 185-190cm and 90kg+ who can do some heavy lifting vs the likes of Pendlebury + Sidebottom etc.
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Nank is a Maric clone and will end his career battered and bruised like Ivan did.
We need a mid and a ruckman. Soldo is not that person
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In the perfect world Nank is our ruck/forward and we have a bigger, still agile first ruck that can do more than just tap the footy.
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In the perfect world Nank is our ruck/forward and we have a bigger, still agile first ruck that can do more than just tap the footy.
Nank used as anything other than no.1 ruck is useless. He is not a good enough fwd to play stuff, his strength is his work in the middle and yes while he may lose the contest he is an absolute beast in his follow up.
Some of the comments on here are bordering on hysterical. Win the premiership last year finish top this year and now or ruckman ain’t good enough, we need to start tagging oppo mids, small fwd line doesn’t work etc......
We didn’t turn up yesterday as simple as that had nothing to do with our strategy and game style.
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In the perfect world Nank is our ruck/forward and we have a bigger, still agile first ruck that can do more than just tap the footy.
Nank used as anything other than no.1 ruck is useless. He is not a good enough fwd to play stuff, his strength is his work in the middle and yes while he may lose the contest he is an absolute beast in his follow up.
Some of the comments on here are bordering on hysterical. Win the premiership last year finish top this year and now or ruckman ain’t good enough, we need to start tagging oppo mids, small fwd line doesn’t work etc......
We didn’t turn up yesterday as simple as that had nothing to do with our strategy and game style.
No point having a game style that beats most clubs or a ruckman that is good enough against the lower sides, it’s about getting a game style and players that can win you the last game.
The game has changed since last year and so have some clubs, we have deficiencies and we need to address them. And one is the ruck and our second ruck option.
I do agree with you on tagging players though.
What is Graham’s roll if not to be a run with player while he learns more about being a genuine midfielder?
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Our midfield was well down last night but the pies played pure footy once they got on the end of a few goals their confidence was sky high there was no stopping them.
But that’s been our game too for most of the year. We got beaten by our own game by a midfield that runs deep. Good quality big bodied mids and they all had a blinder.
What we lack a pure big bodied midfielder. I can’t help myself to think if only Betamax called out Patrick Cripps number instead of Lambert’s number because he’s exactly the type we need.
The Clayton Oliver Type bull. Collingwood has a few (Adams, Pendles, Sier, Crisp) that can do this and they can also run and it worked to perfection. It afforded them the luxury of letting Sidebottom (6 contested 35 uncontested) do whatever he wanted providing a link to whatever play they wanted. Thief mids also afforded Treloar to run outside as well.
We don’t have an effective tagger yet but I’m expecting Graham to get better at this. He has the strength and body but just needs the tank to do it for longer and I think he will eventually.
Hopefully Balta can step up as Griggs replacement as an actual effective wingman pinch hitting Ruck.
We need better midfielders. Extractors. Bulls in the middle. We don’t have any.
Unfortunately Caddy might of been the idea in the middle swapping with Dusty but he’s just too slow in today’s game. Good as a second string forward but when Lynch comes in what do we do with Caddy? he’s too slow to be the pressure player we love in the f50. He’s a bull but a very slow one.
If the new rules come in (6,6,6) then I don’t see much of a problem as we will be very hard to stop.
We need a big bodied mid extractor. We have none in the vfl. Rumour has it we have someone lined up in the pipeline but I hear that’s for 2020.
Can we find one for next year?
Prelim team 2018.
Back: Grimes. Rance. Short.
H/B: Houli. Astbury. Vlastuin.
Centre: Grigg. Cotchin. Edwards.
H/F: Caddy. Riewoldt. Lambert.
Fwds: Castagna. Martin. Rioli.
Rucks: Nankervis. Graham. Prestia.
Interchange: Conca. MacIntosh. Higgins. Broad.
VFL team
Back:Eggmolesse-Smith. Garthwaite. Miller.
H/B: Markov. Chol. Menadue.
Centre:B.Ellis.*C. Ellis. Balta.
H/F: Butler. Townsend. Bolton
Fwds: Baker. Moore. Stengle.
Rucks: Coleman-Jones. *Lloyd.*Miles
Interchange:Soldo. Drummond. Naish.
*Trade
OUT: Hampson. Griffiths.
Potential 2019.
Back: Grimes. Rance. Short.
H/B: Markov. Astbury. Vlastuin.
Centre: Balta. Cotchin. Edwards.
H/F: Martin. Riewoldt. Lambert.
Fwds: Butler. Lynch. Rioli.
Rucks: Nankervis. Graham. Prestia.
Interchange: Caddy. MacIntosh. Higgins. Castagna.
Out: Broad. Conca. (Houli. Grigg) transition.
???? Caddy. What’s his role with Lynch in the side? Too slow for midfield and deficient as a pressure forward because with Lynch in we lose a forward spot. He has done excellent job for us up forward though.
???? Can Balta be the utility we need. Has pace and an excellent leap. Has he the tank to go consistently 4 qtrs?
??? Markov. Can he replace Houli? Or even Broad as the attacking half back? Will he move to a wing.
He had a terrible year with injury with no consistency. I’m expecting big things in 2019. I’d be suprised if he didn’t get a regular afl spot.
Recruiting.
Our depth is good but we need to find a hard bodied midfield extractor but someone that’s got pace too.
Trades: Miles. B.Ellis. Conca. C.Ellis. Lloyd.
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In the perfect world Nank is our ruck/forward and we have a bigger, still agile first ruck that can do more than just tap the footy.
Nank used as anything other than no.1 ruck is useless. He is not a good enough fwd to play stuff, his strength is his work in the middle and yes while he may lose the contest he is an absolute beast in his follow up.
Some of the comments on here are bordering on hysterical. Win the premiership last year finish top this year and now or ruckman ain’t good enough, we need to start tagging oppo mids, small fwd line doesn’t work etc......
We didn’t turn up yesterday as simple as that had nothing to do with our strategy and game style.
No point having a game style that beats most clubs or a ruckman that is good enough against the lower sides, it’s about getting a game style and players that can win you the last game.
The game has changed since last year and so have some clubs, we have deficiencies and we need to address them. And one is the ruck and our second ruck option.
I do agree with you on tagging players though.
What is Graham’s rolling if not to be a run with player while he learns more about being a genuine midfielder?
Just can’t take a 1 game sample size and say our style can’t win the big or our system doesn’t work when it so obviously has over the past 2 years. It was just a bad game and a big outlier when compared to the rest of the season. Kids will be drafted, trades will be made and things will be worked on over the summer, but let’s not just crap over what has been an outstanding couple of years.
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Truly great sides don't rest on their laurels.... :shh
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Too many groovy grubbers, not enough hard nosed footy..:shh
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:shh :shh
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definitely need an extractor.
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or maybe its simply because we had grigg as our second ruck and has been worked out all year where last year teams didnt know what to do?
Remove him from the seniors and we win clearances? I can only think of that being the reason we dropped down so far
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Dominant ruckman not really helping Melbourne right now :shh
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Dominant ruckman not really helping Melbourne right now :shh
Eagles have two competitive rucks - Lycett & Vardy. They don't have a Grigg-type at ground level watching Gawn get a freebie smack the ball to thump it 30m forward. Collingwood have Grundy & Cox. Both Grand Finalists will go old school playing two ruckmen.
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While our defence has been one of if not the best for the past couple of seasons, one thing I’d want them to look at is why they allow teams to have such easy shots at goal. There’s been a lot of games where we have had double or there abouts scoring shots but while we’ve been 15.17 the oppo have been 11.4 or something like that. Would be interested to know where we rank in goals conceded within 10m.
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Dominant ruckman not really helping Melbourne right now :shh
Eagles have two competitive rucks - Lycett & Vardy. They don't have a Grigg-type at ground level watching Gawn get a freebie smack the ball to thump it 30m forward. Collingwood have Grundy & Cox. Both Grand Finalists will go old school playing two ruckmen.
My point exactly
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CCJ and Balta need to have big preseasons. If they can improve they give us a second (and third) ruck and more marking power. I know they have a long way to go but they have the talent to be very good players. :shh
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CCJ and Balta need to have big preseasons. If they can improve they give us a second (and third) ruck and more marking power. I know they have a long way to go but they have the talent to be very good players. :shh
Are you saying we now need 3 rucks at any one time or that we need the depth of ruck options?
I’m expecting Tommy Lynch to take over the pinch hitting from Grigga.
Balta is our back up/replacement for Broady.
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CCJ and Balta need to have big preseasons. If they can improve they give us a second (and third) ruck and more marking power. I know they have a long way to go but they have the talent to be very good players. :shh
Are you saying we now need 3 rucks at any one time or that we need the depth of ruck options?
I’m expecting Tommy Lynch to take over the pinch hitting from Grigga.
Balta is our back up/replacement for Broady.
Tom Lynch won't ruck. He's just coming off a PCL which is the ligament that goes in rucking duels. He'll play deep. Jack will play higher up the ground as a CHF but can also alternate with Lynch. CCJ is a pure second ruck but has great hands around the ground. Balta is more like Rance in the way he could play. He can pinch hit in the ruck but is also mobile and has pace. He should play down back and run through the middle. Also an above average mark. That suddenly gives us more height, marking power and we don't lose a lot of speed. I would have Balta taking Houli's spot and CCJ taking Griggs. Suddenly our balance is much better.
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I like the eagles system 1 pure ruck and the ruck forward that had to happen this year our side is lacking height from midfield to forward.
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Severed Survival has been my favourite post season Autopsy.
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Can’t wait to see more of Grigg, Houli and Conca next year
And I am sure BEllis will tear up the training paddock and be back in the R1 side next year
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CCJ and Balta need to have big preseasons. If they can improve they give us a second (and third) ruck and more marking power. I know they have a long way to go but they have the talent to be very good players. :shh
Are you saying we now need 3 rucks at any one time or that we need the depth of ruck options?
I’m expecting Tommy Lynch to take over the pinch hitting from Grigga.
Balta is our back up/replacement for Broady.
Tom Lynch won't ruck. He's just coming off a PCL which is the ligament that goes in rucking duels. He'll play deep. Jack will play higher up the ground as a CHF but can also alternate with Lynch. CCJ is a pure second ruck but has great hands around the ground. Balta is more like Rance in the way he could play. He can pinch hit in the ruck but is also mobile and has pace. He should play down back and run through the middle. Also an above average mark. That suddenly gives us more height, marking power and we don't lose a lot of speed. I would have Balta taking Houli's spot and CCJ taking Griggs. Suddenly our balance is much better.
Ruckman who have had PCL’s go back into the Ruck, why wouldn’t T Lynch if he’s fit and well?
Balta replacing Houli? I’d like to see him back, possibly replacing Broad who had an ordinary year and look to Markov to replace Houli - he has the run and carry with hopefully another strong pre season under his belt the running capacity to match Houli.
CCJ might make us a bit too heavy in the forward line with Lynch and Jack down there as well?
I see him as back up to the Nank.
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Can’t wait to see more of Grigg, Houli and Conca next year
And I am sure BEllis will tear up the training paddock and be back in the R1 side next year
Preferably for other clubs
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CCJ and Balta need to have big preseasons. If they can improve they give us a second (and third) ruck and more marking power. I know they have a long way to go but they have the talent to be very good players. :shh
Are you saying we now need 3 rucks at any one time or that we need the depth of ruck options?
I’m expecting Tommy Lynch to take over the pinch hitting from Grigga.
Balta is our back up/replacement for Broady.
Tom Lynch won't ruck. He's just coming off a PCL which is the ligament that goes in rucking duels. He'll play deep. Jack will play higher up the ground as a CHF but can also alternate with Lynch. CCJ is a pure second ruck but has great hands around the ground. Balta is more like Rance in the way he could play. He can pinch hit in the ruck but is also mobile and has pace. He should play down back and run through the middle. Also an above average mark. That suddenly gives us more height, marking power and we don't lose a lot of speed. I would have Balta taking Houli's spot and CCJ taking Griggs. Suddenly our balance is much better.
Ruckman who have had PCL’s go back into the Ruck, why wouldn’t T Lynch if he’s fit and well?
Balta replacing Houli? I’d like to see him back, possibly replacing Broad who had an ordinary year and look to Markov to replace Houli - he has the run and carry with hopefully another strong pre season under his belt the running capacity to match Houli.
CCJ might make us a bit too heavy in the forward line with Lynch and Jack down there as well?
I see him as back up to the Nank.
Ruckmen who have done there PCL's have to go back into the ruck because they are.......ummmm....ruckmen. They don't have a choice. You don't use your recently purchased expensive Ferrari to tow the trailer and hence I wouldn't think Lynch would be used any more than pinch hitting ruckwork in the forward line.
I disagree that Broad had an ordinary year. He was brilliant in the first half of the season. He did have several poor games at the end but to say his whole season was bad is wrong IMHO. Broad will keep his place as he defends much better than Houli. Grigg is coming to an end. Whether he is replaced with another utility or we get more marking power into the side will be the choice of the match committee.
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Why can't we go like the eagles setup 2 big KF and Nank in ruck with another ruck forward type for help .The only thing your players have to be mobile and good around the ground and your midfielders have to work harder with one less runner.Not keen to see Lynch in ruck.We need to play one of our kids or recruit one.Can't have the same scenario like this season 2 talls short from round 1in Griffiths and Hammer.
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We need more midfield depth - that's where Collingwood is superior to us.
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Yep -we mocked them all year over their injury excuses but there they are in the GF while we basically fell in the heap on the back of a handful of niggles..... :shh
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Yep -we mocked them all year over their injury excuses but there they are in the GF while we basically fell in the heap on the back of a handful of niggles..... :shh
:shh