One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: one-eyed on November 23, 2019, 06:01:40 PM
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Shifter Sheehan says Judd ahead of Dusty.
No.3 - Chris Judd (West Coast, 2001/Carlton)
Judd changed the game with his breathtaking acceleration from the centre and was extremely difficult to defend when he first burst on to the scene for West Coast in 2002. Played 279 games, won two Brownlow medals, was six times an All Australian and won five club best and fairest awards and was a premiership captain.
But he certainly now has a challenger emerging with Dustin Martin already on 224 games, two premierships, two Norm Smith medals and a Brownlow as well as being a three-time All Australian putting him in the superstar category.
https://www.afl.com.au/news/2019-11-23/the-greatest-draft-picks-of-all-time-from-140-shifter-makes-the-call
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Dusty is more versatile and less injury prone but Judd has 6 all Australians. He just kept that level for longer so far. If dusty gets to 6 then I'd flip but I'm on Judd's side ATM.
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Dusty extra flag and Norm Smith's count extra for me.Way more versatile then him his 50 plus goal kicker if he plays forward. At blues besides 1 or 2 seasons wasn't great injuries had a play to. Dusty more team player to.
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The fact Dusty will be a one club player is also a key to me.
While I appreciate why Judd came back to Melb. He chose the club that offered the most $$$ ( ;)). He also he came with the fanfare of "guaranteeing" he would deliver the Blues a flag. He didn't
Dusty has helped deliver 2.
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Dusty has a better record than Judd.
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If you lined both up and could only choose one then I would take Dusty every time.
However, based on their whole career to date, what favours Judd is he was at his peak for longer. Dusty has been at his peak for 3 years. So right now I can see why non-Tiger supporters would say Judd but by the end of Dusty's career (barring some serious injury - touchwood), it will be Dusty by the Flemington straight.
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Judd's a sissy boy.
Fancy your mum singing a song about you.
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Judd can have the nod for now. But wait until Martin finishes his career with:
4 Premierships
3 Norm Smiths
2 Brownlows
7 time all australian
350+ AFL games
500+ goals
4 Jack Dyer
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You know what's funny is if I had to choose between Judd Dusty or Cotchin I'd choose Cotch because he's the better leader of the 3. Stuff the stats,holding fractious personalities together is much more important.
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I would rather party with Dustin.
Judd is a boring wanker and his wife is a waife of a thing.
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Dustin is easily better. Judd was never the same once leaving West Coast, but media continued to fawn over him and was basically gifted his second Brownlow. In the end Judd was all hype and no substance, Dustin easily.
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Both absolute champions
Judd was probably a better midfielder. Dusty more versatile.
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This is a very hard one. He was surrounded by potatoes at Carlton and basically carried the team. I felt he deserved the second Brownlow. As already mentioned he was an absolute elite player over a very long time. That being said I don’t think his peak is as good as Dusty’s 2017.
My Richmond bias has me picking Dusty.
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Judd's second Brownlow should've been Swan's but Swan's Brownlow the following year should've been Judd's. #squareup :shh
Anyway Martin by a mile ...will be part the GOAT converstion by the time he's finished.... Judd was just a upmarket version of Paul Kelly.... :shh :shh
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Instead of comparing the two players strengths, I compare their weaknesses.
Judd was one one of the worst field kicks going around, he launched many wayward & loopy helicopters that were slow to arrive. He covered it up by going sideways & backwards to open team mates which made him negative & lacking any penetration by foot. His set shots at goal were just ordinary too.
Dusty has very few weaknesses, if he has any it can be his acceleration from standing to top speed - just average, his top speed is still good but is slower to get there (its why he gets caught HTB).
Interestingly the two are almost exact opposites of each other, but both are champions in their own right - Dusty is elite by foot & deadly around goals but not as quick out of the blocks as Judd.
Finally, Dusty still has 4-6 years left in the game to achieve even more while Judd is finished. Over time I expect Dusty to blow Judd off the park when they get compared again. :cheers
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Judd burst onto the scene and was basically elite from halfway through his first season.
Won a brownlow just 2 years later.
(Unfortunately, I doubt I'll ever be able to fully shake his performance in the '13 elimination final from memory).
Dusty, whilst immediately found the level of AFL and was playing elite football from his first season, didn't perhaps hit the ground running the way the Judd did.
Judd was truly one of the modern greats. Dominated and took control of games the way the few players can - and he did it for a sustained period. Dusty has reached that level since about 2016, so needs to keep achieving to surpass Judd for mine, but hes certainly tracking that way.
If I could pick Judd's career or Dusty's career knowing he still has a few years of potential elite football ahead of him I would take Dusty.
If it was Dusty's career or Judd's careers its a coin toss.
I'll add the Dusty is by far the better 1on1 player.
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The knock on dusty which in my opinion gets blown waaaay out of proportion is the commentators dont think dusty does enough defensively. Which has Chris Judd with a higher average tackle count at his peak. I personally think this is more down to the fact Martin isn’t that quick or a runner so he’s unable to chase as opposed to not willing. I see Martin always going for second and third efforts in the contest but once they get separation he doesn’t have the acceleration.
I actually think that’s why he developed the fend off because players usually do catch up to him when they’re having a foot race. Which makes it even more sweeter when he brushes them off like a little bitch
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The knock on dusty which in my opinion gets blown waaaay out of proportion is the commentators dont think dusty does enough defensively. Which has Chris Judd with a higher average tackle count at his peak. I personally think this is more down to the fact Martin isn’t that quick or a runner so he’s unable to chase as opposed to not willing. I see Martin always going for second and third efforts in the contest but once they get separation he doesn’t have the acceleration.
I actually think that’s why he developed the fend off because players usually do catch up to him when they’re having a foot race. Which makes it even more sweeter when he brushes them off like a little bitch
An individual player cannot do every aspect of the game all the time. Fyfe said as much when he thanked Conca for covering for him allowing him to do the attacking plays that led to his Brownlow win.
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How the stuff did we miss Fyfe. Geez.
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How the stuff did we miss Fyfe. Geez.
Everyone missed Fyfe. Literally every club.
And Yes, I know Brisbane, Collingwood, Hawthorn and St Kilda didn’t have picks before he was taken. But the bloke went at 20. Anyone can trade up (or not trade out your pick) to make sure you’re there at 20.
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How the stuff did we miss Fyfe. Geez.
The story is well known and oft told. :'(
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How the stuff did we miss Fyfe. Geez.
Everyone missed Fyfe. Literally every club.
And Yes, I know Brisbane, Collingwood, Hawthorn and St Kilda didn’t have picks before he was taken. But the bloke went at 20. Anyone can trade up (or not trade out your pick) to make sure you’re there at 20.
There was only one club Fyfe was going out of his way to get the attention of at draft camp.... :shh
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Hmm it's a toss up between Judd's 'eye gouge' and Dusty's don't argue' Which one contributes more to the game?
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Does Dusty have Chris Judd covered to this point in their careers?
By SEN
20 April 2020
Who would you take – Dustin Martin right now or Chris Judd at the equivalent point of his career, 225 games in?
Judd has the extra Brownlow, while Martin has the second premiership and second Norm Smith Medal.
Martin has kicked more goals, but has three less All-Australians.
Channel Nine’s Sunday Footy Show made their picks, with former Geelong star Billy Brownless leaning towards the Richmond midfielder.
“I’m going to go Dusty because he’ll get a couple more All-Australians, he’ll get another Brownlow and he kicks more goals,” Brownless said.
Everyone else on the panel went with Judd – including Matthew Lloyd and Kane Cornes – with former Western Bulldogs forward Nathan Brown saying Judd has the edge.
“I’m going to go Judd just because in that era he was tagged in pretty much 95 per cent of those games and was still able to do that. You don’t get tagged too often these days,” Brown said.
Damian Barrett agreed, saying Judd hit the ground running from game one, whereas Martin needed a few years to emerge.
“I’d take Judd because he did it from game one and Dusty probably took three and a half years to find the true form,” Barrett said.
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2020/04/20/does-dusty-have-chris-judd-covered-to-this-point-in-their-careers/
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Revisited 12 months on:
Juddy or Dusty? The greatest draft picks of all time, 20-1
Who are the best players by draft pick? Is it time Chris Judd handed over his No.3 baton?
By Kevin Sheehan and Nathan Schmook
afl.com.au
28 November 2020
IN 2019, AFL national talent ambassador Kevin Sheehan nominated the greatest players selected at each pick in the NAB AFL Draft.
Twelve months on, as we count down to the 2020 NAB AFL Draft on December 9, we assess if there are any new challengers to Shifter's picks.
No.3 - Chris Judd (West Coast, 2001/Carlton)
The best player taken at pick No.3 is a matter of personal preference. Judd changed the game with his breathtaking acceleration from the centre and was extremely difficult to defend when he first burst on to the scene for West Coast in 2002. Played 279 games, won two Brownlow medals, was six times an All-Australian and won five club best and fairest awards and was a premiership captain.
Richmond champion Dustin Martin (2009) is the only player to win three Norm Smith medals as one of the modern game's greatest finals performers. He has played 244 games, won three premierships, a Brownlow Medal and been named All-Australian on four occasions. For many judges, he could well be the greatest player picked at No.3.
The Poll on the afl website has Dusty in front 52% to Judd's 48%.
https://www.afl.com.au/news/525549/juddy-or-dusty-the-greatest-draft-picks-of-all-time-20-1
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Judd was a jet but Dusty is a Jumbo Jet :shh
Dusty went past him last year!
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It’s was a hard one for me to split prior to 2020. Judd slayed it at west coast and his ability to break open a contest really set the standard for what an onballer should be. He was let down by a vastly overrated Carlton list and he did his best to carry them to the promised land. That and he was lured by $$$$$$$
Dusty on the other hand isn’t blessed with speed and had to develop the dont argue. The fact I go for Richmond and I highly rate precision kicking in an inside mid I had him Marginally in front of judd. But after his domination in the finals series this year I have him comfortably in front of Judd.
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The last 20 odd years since we’ve become a professional competition has thrown up a heap of really good players but very few out and out champions.
I’ve always had Voss at the top of the tree with players like Gaz Jnr, Ricciouto, Buckley, Goodes, Buddy, Scarlett that next tier down.
Judd was as good as any player I’ve seen in their first 3 years. His first game was incredible. While he won another Brownlow at Carlton, I felt like his star faded during that time. I hold the AA award as lacking in credibility - too many examples of players with lairy stats or relationships at AFL house or in the media getting spots. Danger, exhibit A.
Dusty has moments like the great before him in bygone eras which is why we all love him. There’s a reason Leigh Matthews doesn’t have a problem by Dusty being compared against him.
Players in the professional era don’t consistently do what Dusty does in finals - forget the GF’s and Norm Smiths for a minute - he averages something like 125 super coach points across ALL of his finals. Judd doesn’t have those numbers and the finals are where the all time greats of the game seperate themselves from the stars of the game.
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The last 20 odd years since we’ve become a professional competition has thrown up a heap of really good players but very few out and out champions.
I’ve always had Voss at the top of the tree with players like Gaz Jnr, Ricciouto, Buckley, Goodes, Buddy, Scarlett that next tier down.
Judd was as good as any player I’ve seen in their first 3 years. His first game was incredible. While he won another Brownlow at Carlton, I felt like his star faded during that time. I hold the AA award as lacking in credibility - too many examples of players with lairy stats or relationships at AFL house or in the media getting spots. Danger, exhibit A.
Dusty has moments like the great before him in bygone eras which is why we all love him. There’s a reason Leigh Matthews doesn’t have a problem by Dusty being compared against him.
Players in the professional era don’t consistently do what Dusty does in finals - forget the GF’s and Norm Smiths for a minute - he averages something like 125 super coach points across ALL of his finals. Judd doesn’t have those numbers and the finals are where the all time greats of the game seperate themselves from the stars of the game.
I rate Andrew McLeod as the second best player I seen on a footy ground so massively underated big time.
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McCleod was an absolute gun. Pity he played for Adelaide.
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Dusty is also a significantly better human than that chrome dome Juddhead.
Judd is a mercenary who left for $$$, also enjoys chicken winging blokes which is how you submit someone in MMA by inflicting pain, and occasionally gouging their eyes also (pretty sure they do stuff like that to torture people in Syria).
Dusty on the other hand is quite a pleasant and clean/fair player.
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Sooky Blues supporter on stuff:
(https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/attachments/57d74446-1245-415e-8e14-828da3456eca-jpeg.1020583/)
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I wouldn't say Judd was the best in his era. Probably rate midfielders Gary Ablett, Ben Cousins, Adam Goodes above him.
But hey, still a gun player. No doubt.
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Dusty won the AFL twitter poll.
Who are you taking?
Juddy 43%
Dusty 57%
https://twitter.com/AFL/status/1333966757933957121
Some salty replies :lol
the people saying dusty cos he has 3 norm smiths 🤣🤣 let’s ignore the fact he didn’t deserve one of them, possibly even two and go straight to the fact that him playing a good game on the big stage does not at all say he was a better overall player than judd...
59% of people never watched a game of footy before 2017 I guess
God people are fooled by the media. Judd any day of the week
Lmao. Judd by the flemington. Take away team success because its irrelevant. Dusty plays in a good system where he doesn't get tagged, give him the judd treatment in a poor side you'd never notice him. Silly comparison.
In what universe is Dusty better than Judd, heck Judd was running circles around Dusty when the teams always collided. Winning a premiership medal does not make a player better. Marion Picket must be better than Judd too because he has 2 Premiership medals.
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lol Dusty doesn't get tagged. They simply cannot tag him all game.
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Everyone bitching about how arrogant & insufferable our supporters have become since winning the flags will long for these days if Carlton & Essendon ever win their next flags.... :shh
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Everyone bitching about how arrogant & insufferable our supporters have become since winning the flags will long for these days if Carlton & Essendon ever win their next flags.... :shh
Or Collingwood...
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Judd at his best was the best midfielder in the game by a hectare
It’s easy for people to forget how great someone was as time passes
They are both just so different as players .. all I know is , without Dusty , we don’t have 1 flag, let alone 3
Don’t know if that would have been the case with Judd instead of Dusty .. and it’s something nobody can ever answer .. but with Dusty , the answer is there for everyone to see
For that reason alone, Dusty
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Everyone bitching about how arrogant & insufferable our supporters have become since winning the flags will long for these days if Carlton & Essendon ever win their next flags.... :shh
Or Collingwood...
Yeah nah they maintain the same level obnoxiousness. arrogance, paranoia & whinging regardless of whether they win or lose.... :shh :shh
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Compare the pair ...
Dustin Martin
Games Goals
2010–present Richmond 244 272 (11 seasons)
3× AFL premiership player: 2017, 2019, 2020
3× Norm Smith Medal: 2017, 2019, 2020
Brownlow Medal: 2017
Brownlow votes: 191 (avg: 0.83 per game)
Leigh Matthews Trophy: 2017
AFLCA champion player of the year award: 2017
4× All-Australian team: 2016, 2017, 2018, 2020
3× Gary Ayres Award: 2017, 2019, 2020
2x Jack Dyer Medal (Richmond B&F): 2016, 2017
Herald Sun Player of the Year: 2017
Lou Richards Medal: 2017
2× Yiooken Award: 2016, 2017
2× Ian Stewart Medal: 2017, 2019
2× 22under22 team: 2012, 2013
AFL Rising Star nominee: 2010
State of Origin best on ground: 2020
Richmond Life Member (2016)
Chris Judd
Games Goals
2002–2007 West Coast 134 138
2008–2015 Carlton 145 90
Total 279 228 (14 seasons)
AFL premiership player: (2006)
AFL premiership captain: (2006)
Norm Smith Medal: (2005)
2× Brownlow Medal: (2004, 2010)
Brownlow votes: 210 (avg: 0.80 per game)
2× Leigh Matthews Trophy: (2006, 2011)
6× All-Australian team: (2004, 2006, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011)
2× West Coast Club Champion: (2004, 2006)
3× John Nicholls Medal (Carlton B&F): (2008, 2009, 2010)
The Age Player of the Year: 2009
West Coast Captain: (2006–2007)
Carlton captain: (2008–2012)
AFL Rising Star: (nomination 2002)
AFLPA Best First Year Player Award: (2002)
3× Ross Glendinning Medal: (2005, 2005, 2006)
Geoff Christian Medal: (2006)
AFL Goal of the Year (2005)
Madden Medal: (2015)
AFL Life Member: (2015)
West Coast Life Member (2018)
Sources: Wikipedia & AFLtables
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Judd sold his loyalty for money and Dusty stayed loyal to give us 3 cups
Hands down Dusty
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Judd sold his loyalty for money and Dusty stayed loyal to give us 3 cups
Hands down Dusty
And Judd's money was dodgy paper bag stuff.
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Judd at his best was the best midfielder in the game by a hectare
It’s easy for people to forget how great someone was as time passes
They are both just so different as players .. all I know is , without Dusty , we don’t have 1 flag, let alone 3
Don’t know if that would have been the case with Judd instead of Dusty .. and it’s something nobody can ever answer .. but with Dusty , the answer is there for everyone to see
For that reason alone, Dusty
Not sure about that I rate Andrew McLeod ahead of him.McLeod game was very similiar to how Dusty plays it to.
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For starters McLeod played most of his career as a half back flanker .. superstar for sure, but better midfielder ???? And as for similar to Dusty , I’d think of them as almost being opposites
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Judd at his best was the best midfielder in the game by a hectare
It’s easy for people to forget how great someone was as time passes
They are both just so different as players .. all I know is , without Dusty , we don’t have 1 flag, let alone 3
Don’t know if that would have been the case with Judd instead of Dusty .. and it’s something nobody can ever answer .. but with Dusty , the answer is there for everyone to see
For that reason alone, Dusty
Not sure about that I rate Andrew McLeod ahead of him.McLeod game was very similiar to how Dusty plays it to.
McLeod similar to Dustin?.....
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The way he use to lift that crows side and spur them on with his magic and play , see his grand finals big game player 2 norm smiths.Mcleod wasn't just a half back flanker spends chunks of his time in guts.
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Yep. McLeod was an absolute gun. Says more about how great Dusty has become that we are comparing him to and saying he is now better than the McLeods of the game.
Btw, Dusty averages more disposals, marks and goals than both of Judd and McLeod.
https://finalsiren.com/PlayerCompare.asp?SeasonID=&SelectedPlayers=1970,597,386,&Compare=Go&Sort=AverageRating%20Desc
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The way he use to lift that crows side and spur them on with his magic and play , see his grand finals big game player 2 norm smiths.Mcleod wasn't just a half back flanker spends chunks of his time in guts.
Fair enough.
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With three days until the #AFLDraft we're asking, who's the greatest player ever taken at pick 3️⃣?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FiXTiGJVEAAfhjh?format=jpg&name=large)
https://twitter.com/FootyonNine/status/1595914299767021568
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They forgot to add Dusty has better hair and Tatts and Judd has a gold digging missus
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Don’t think there’s a wrong answer to this one. Both all timers.
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Don’t think there’s a wrong answer to this one. Both all timers.
Agree.
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Dusty = loyal 1 club champion player that took unders to stay at the club that drafted him
Judd = Left the cheating club that drafted him so he could get paper bags full of cash at the biggest cheats in the AFL/VFL and a fake job at Visy
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Dusty = loyal 1 club champion player that took unders to stay at the club that drafted him
Judd = Left the cheating club that drafted him so he could get paper bags full of cash at the biggest cheats in the AFL/VFL and a fake job at Visy
:snidegrin
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Dusty = loyal 1 club champion player that took unders to stay at the club that drafted him
Judd = Left the cheating club that drafted him so he could get paper bags full of cash at the biggest cheats in the AFL/VFL and a fake job at Visy
:clapping
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Dusty = loyal 1 club champion player that took unders to stay at the club that drafted him
Judd = Left the cheating club that drafted him so he could get paper bags full of cash at the biggest cheats in the AFL/VFL and a fake job at Visy
His mrs a fake job at Visy as well
In saying that , don’t blame him for wanting to leave West Coke
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That was his Mum. His missus would t be caught dead at Visy with a real job
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That was his Mum. His missus would t be caught dead at Visy with a real job
Rebecca was employed as the environmental ambassador for visy