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Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: Andyy on April 03, 2022, 07:26:09 PM

Title: List management
Post by: Andyy on April 03, 2022, 07:26:09 PM
Even for the most optimistic supporters I think the writing must be on the wall now. Timing your run still means winning games like Carlton and Saints when you have handy leads in the 3rd quarter but we have clearly lost our ability to run out games against even modestly talented teams.

I suspect this is because the oldies are too old and the youngsters are too green or not good enough.

Lots of retirements and delistings should be on the agenda IMO. Even if we stagger the retirements I'd like to see something like this:

2022 retirements
Cotchin
Riewoldt
Edwards

2023 retirements
Lambert
Prestia (would like to negotiate an early retirement here)
Tarrant (going fine now but we need a kid here)

2022 delistings
RCD
Martyn
Aarts
Ross
Nyuon
Cumberland
Stack

Kids who need to have a shot at the expense of older blokes
Miller
Mansell
Rest of the 2021 draftees

Trade bait
Rioli
Castagna
Caddy


Unfortunately not a lot to get excited about IMO, bar Balta and Bolton. Both have flags and might look elsewhere.
Title: Re: List management
Post by: mightytiges on April 03, 2022, 07:50:45 PM
Yep, we need to rebuild. We're not going to challenge with the current group anymore  :(.

Prestia could be a forced retirement if he keeps breaking down with soft tissue injuries  :-\.

Caddy is out of contract and will be delisted. He may even retire as it's hard to see any other club picking him up. We're not going to get anything for him in any case.

I don't see Ross or Biggie being delisted. Not that they are the answer but they fill roles for now. I think we'll persist with RCD too. Just because there are others ahead of him that should go.

Stack will depend on his commitment to his footy.

Samson is pushing into delisting territory. He's gone backwards. If he survives it's only because he's a tall.

Retirements: Cotch, Jack, Sheds. (Prestia?)
Delistings: Caddy, Martyn, Aarts, Cumberland.
Trades: depends on what we get in return and who we are chasing.

I don't see us cleaning out the list especially if there's many retirements. Whoever we lose we need to bring in a player via the draft, trade or FA. Go too young and inexperienced and you can hamper development and end up a decade in the wilderness with little to show for it.
Title: Re: List management
Post by: the claw on April 03, 2022, 11:40:57 PM
Even for the most optimistic supporters I think the writing must be on the wall now. Timing your run still means winning games like Carlton and Saints when you have handy leads in the 3rd quarter but we have clearly lost our ability to run out games against even modestly talented teams.

I suspect this is because the oldies are too old and the youngsters are too green or not good enough.

Lots of retirements and delistings should be on the agenda IMO. Even if we stagger the retirements I'd like to see something like this:

2022 retirements
Cotchin
Riewoldt
Edwards

2023 retirements
Lambert
Prestia (would like to negotiate an early retirement here)
Tarrant (going fine now but we need a kid here)

2022 delistings
RCD
Martyn
Aarts
Ross
Nyuon
Cumberland
Stack

Kids who need to have a shot at the expense of older blokes
Miller
Mansell
Rest of the 2021 draftees

Trade bait
Rioli
Castagna
Caddy


Unfortunately not a lot to get excited about IMO, bar Balta and Bolton. Both have flags and might look elsewhere.

Geez and i thought i could be brutal.

Agree on Cotchin, Riewoldt and Edwards retiring at seasons end.
Not so sure about your 2023 retirements especially prestia Lambert. When fit these two still produce the goods but i acknowledge they have struggled to get on the park in recent seasons.

Delistings again im not sure i want to see how the season unfolds before chopping RC-D, Cumberland and Stack.Dont see Aarts Ross and Martyn making it but am prepared to give  Nyuon  a bit more time though i have my doubts.

Cannot see anyone offering anything for Castagna and Caddy we could try to trade but if no takers would delist. One i would put here is McIntosh.

Rioli we could get somthing for i suppose but they are not going to do it.

Seasons end
Retire - Riewoldt, Cotchin, Edwards.

Delist - Castagna, Aarts, Caddy, Martyn. Depending on how many we think is right to cut we could do a coupe more here.
Title: Re: List management
Post by: Andyy on April 04, 2022, 12:25:15 AM
Prestia has played 18 games in the last two years. He's contracted until end 2024. I'd give him another year and if he still not getting on the park be asking him to hang them up.

Lambert has hip issues - usually we see very poor outcomes long term with hips. It's cost him games in 2021, already again in 2022, and he will be 32yo at the end of 2023. I'd be surprised if the fanbase is hollering for another contract.

As for the delistings I think it goes without saying that if any of them pull a finger out we keep them but so far nobody on that list of mine has done anything to warrant ongoing optimism. RCD was a first round pick, elsewise nothing. Stack has talent but no discipline, which won't cut it. Biggie can't hide behind his height anymore. The rest are just vanilla busts.

Didn't realise caddy's contract is up. He should just play vfl. Castagna I wouldn't delist - he's worth trading for sure. Rioli too. Kmac I know you don't like him, I do, but also don't mind if he's on the table.
Title: Re: List management
Post by: Diocletian on April 04, 2022, 12:35:09 AM
Why are people delisting Cumberland all of a sudden? Like to see how he goes in the seniors first... :shh

...and Ryan's a project ruckman ffs...he's going to be given more than just two years...will probably get at least 4 and there will be plenty of ups & downs along the way like their usually is with those types....... :shh :shh
Title: Re: List management
Post by: crackertiger on April 04, 2022, 07:45:31 AM
Caddy will get retired/delisted. No other club will want him.
Title: Re: List management
Post by: MintOnLamb on April 04, 2022, 07:53:48 AM
Can we trade Lynch for something?
Title: Re: List management
Post by: Knighter on April 04, 2022, 09:05:45 AM
Even for the most optimistic supporters I think the writing must be on the wall now. Timing your run still means winning games like Carlton and Saints when you have handy leads in the 3rd quarter but we have clearly lost our ability to run out games against even modestly talented teams.


I luv these sort of threads.

If another club happened to read them they would pee themselves silly at some of the suggestions. No one is giving anything for Castagna or Caddy

Also its pretty obvious you've got no idea when you are nominating Biggy and RCD for delisting. Biggy is going very nicely indeed.
Title: Re: List management
Post by: FooffooValve on April 04, 2022, 09:21:45 AM
I'll be surprised if this isn't Lambert's last year.
Title: Re: List management
Post by: the claw on April 04, 2022, 12:52:27 PM
Not 100% sure as i did the exercise ages ago but across all teams the average number of changes each year is close to 7?.

Only time clubs seem to dump a pile of players is when they start from scratch. Take Hardwicks first season. At the end of 2009 we cut 13 players.
5 were traded or retired and we re rookied one in Polak who had the head injury so in effect 12 new faces.

I don't believe we are going to be dumping 12 players its a different situation and i also believe if you clean out all the experience in one go then you end up in the wilderness for ever trying to rebuild culture and know how.

So lets make a starting point and say we will probably delist trade retire 7 or 8 players at seasons end. Its a simple who are the 8 who should could go first.
Its also about asking who are definate keepers and who are okay but expendable blokes we think we need to upgrade a bit on. Your also asking how much more time under covid circumstances do the kids need.

three categories

Delist/Retire/Trade at seasons end.
Retirements

Edwards retire age 33 and he looks like the game has caught up. This is something that has been happening for a few seasons now.  in Bolton  and maybe  Sonsie  we have him covered.

Cotchin retire age 32 next week. Like Edwards the poorer performances are out numbering the better ones and at times he looks shot.This has been the case for a bit now. We need mids and we need some good ones and we need some big ones in particular. We are all asking though who is coming thru who is a like for like type of mid.

Riewoldt retire age 33. Not sure on JR because we dont have any kids coming thru in his role. So he won't be taking games off anyone.
He could be good cover for another season lets see how this year pans out. Club needs to target key fwds and possibly a mature one as well even if he does not  retire.

Prestia 29yo If his body does not come good this year he may well say enough is enough. Like to keep and hope the injuries get better because he is one of the oldies when fit who still performs at a very high level. Again where is the very good inside player to replace him.

Lambert 30yr old. Like Prestia its a concern with his hips it could well be the end and taken out of his hands.But its the Prestia situation again.

Martin 30yr old Love this bloke but who could blame him if he retired. May not be the greatest defensive player going around but what an offensive pick a team up and drag it along player he has been. We desperately need another big powerful inside out player with hurt factor  like Dusty.

 A terrible situation for us would be if all 6 went in one go. Imo  its not that far fetched because of the circumstances,  it could happen.

Allowing for three of them to go this year is being realistic imo.

Possible trades

Rioli  25 yr old. As critical as i have been of him   not sure about this. He would have some value and we do have his position well covered moving fwd.
Would love to see how he goes on a wing. He has been a lot better since moving back and perhaps the upwards trend will continue. Would only trade atm if we are after a high pick and he can help us get one. He is not in the bottom 8. Am loath to get rid of anyone in the 24 to 28 age  bracket atm  unless they are very poor.

If we had a more athletic ruckman showing good signs on the list who is ready to play id be tempted to offer up Soldo but we dont so its pointless atm.

Delist
 
Caddy 29yo is 30 this year and no one is taking on a 30yr old unless its a super star and hes not. Probably not our worst but his papers have been stamped.

Aarts 27yo out and out battler is a good vfl standard player just not good enough for AFL.

Castagna 25yo sorry but just doesnt have the skill set for the game. If players like Clarke, Rioli Jr, Cumberland even Sonsie until he becomes a mid at seniors, cannot force him out then we are in a world of pain in this area. Imo the coaches have their heads in the sand with Castagna.

There's 6 just there but if its the average of 7 we do allowing for say a trade a f/a  and 5 picks then one more has to go.

Probably from the following

McIntosh 28 really want more than a defensive run the lines player who has little impact on the wing with average skills.Needs to be reinvented and if that can't be done then id delist already we have likely looking wingmen needing games.

Martyn only 21 but worried about some of his attributes. Gotta remember he was drafted in 2019 and his first two seasons have been terribly affected by the covid outbreak.
I lean towards giving kids around this time a bit of extra time and would rather target blokes like McIntosh,
 Parker who imo we need to have better than although they can be servicable at times.

Ross is only 21 as well but he has 31 games behind him now and on that body of games i have grave concerns about him.
Thats another 4 possibilities.

Definate keepers for now.

Well i lean towards another year for 99% of the juniors 18 - 21
Banks, Brown, Clarke, Cumberland, Dow, Gibcus, Mansell, Nyuon, Ralphsmith, M Rioli, Ryan, Sonsie, Stack, with only Ross and Martyn in my gun sights.

Clearly there are some players like Balta Bolton Vlastuin etc who are must keeps going fwd.

I also think its make or break for RC-D 22YO. He needs to show consistency not just week to week but thru games, he has to stay involved.
It is year 4 and he is past just offering up little bits here and little bits there. As a club we cannot wait forever.
If he can give us say 18 -  20 disposals, 8 contested, 4 or 5 clearance 5 tackle games consistently then he's where he needs to be for a 4th yr player imo.



Title: Re: List management
Post by: Assange Tiger 😎 on April 04, 2022, 01:08:53 PM
The complete lack of key forwards coming through is agitating. Makes it hard for the 2's to have a proper structure. Surely we could have binned the idea of drafting our 23rd half back flanker and got in a KPF. Assuming we will trade for one or have a dip in free agency.
Title: Re: List management
Post by: Knighter on April 04, 2022, 01:30:03 PM
We had key forwards in Chol and CCJ who were showing some promise

Our decision to overpay for the likes of Lynch and Prestia and continue to recycle hacks like Castagna, Aarts, Caddy et al together with refusing to retire our veterans like Riewoldt & Cotchin meant we had no money to hang onto the the likes of CCJ and Chol.

We are now paying for arrogant and short sighted list management decisions during the 4 years from 2017 to 2020
Title: Re: List management
Post by: Rampsation on April 04, 2022, 02:18:47 PM
Maybe everyone has to start thinking about whether or not sending Dusty to Sydney is a good idea trade wise. We have too many oldies, not enough youngsters and very little in the middle. Im one who thinks we should consider it depending on what Sydney or GWS offer in terms of players or picks.

In terms of delistings Im looking at Aartz, Castagna, Martyn and Caddy. I dont think theyre worth anything draft pick wise.
We need to transition out three retirements for me Cotchin, Edwards and Riewoldt. Hopefully Lambert can stay on and Prestia too. We need to keep some senior guys. I would keep everyone else and go the draft and whatever we could get fir Dusty. Remembering Dusty will be 31 next year. If we want to cash out its this year or never.
Title: Re: List management
Post by: the claw on April 04, 2022, 03:26:53 PM
We had key forwards in Chol and CCJ who were showing some promise

Our decision to overpay for the likes of Lynch and Prestia and continue to recycle hacks like Castagna, Aarts, Caddy et al together with refusing to retire our veterans like Riewoldt & Cotchin meant we had no money to hang onto the the likes of CCJ and Chol.

We are now paying for arrogant and short sighted list management decisions during the 4 years from 2017 to 2020

Nope even in that we hedged our bets both half ruckmen half fwd but not quite either imo. Laughable that we considered them possible permanent key fwds and that they would become very good ones.


We have done it a bit over the years as well hedging the bets.
Neither were ever out and out key forwards.
Neither could demand a regular game in front of Nankervis and later Soldo as ruckmen  and both are still today as forwards miles behind Riewoldt and Lynch and are more like ruckmen who rest fwd.
They were never ever going to solve our key fwd problems. They didnt  leave  for money although im sure they got more at their new clubs BUT FOR OPPORTUNITY BECAUSE THEY COULD NOT GET A GAME.

Imo in this it has been the failure not just 17 to 21  to fail to invest in GENUINE young key forwards but the entire tenure of Hardwick.
When we have drafted talls to play fwd it has been mostly the half fwd half ruck types as well.

When we have drafted actual Genuine kpps we have done fairly well.

From 2009 to 2021 i count just 4 GENUINE key fwds being drafted if i include Griffiths who was a kpf when drafted but became more effective as  a ruck/fwd. others were Astbury who became a kpd early in his career so knowing this it should have been clear to take another kpf.
Reece McKenzie who was taken at pick 77 big chance he was going to fail with such a speculative pick, and Balta who we tried to turn into a key defender because we had been almost as negligent in taking kpd's.

Thats the 4 in 13 years it is little wonder that we went and got Lynch and that we have no young key fwds coming thru.



Ruck fwds we took under Hardwick and remember we had Vickery taken in 2008 at pick 8 also a ruck/fwd were, Elton, McBean, CC-J, Chol as a rookie and ryan. For us taking half ruck half fwds has not worked out we have not found a front line ruckman or a front line fwd out of any of them. What we have got is mostly duds who were again half ruck half fwd but not quite either.



If you want to you can do the same sort of exercise for quality inside and bigger bodied mids. There was reason why we went and got Prestia or had to target a player like him and we all know why.

Title: Re: List management
Post by: the claw on April 04, 2022, 03:40:44 PM
The complete lack of key forwards coming through is agitating. Makes it hard for the 2's to have a proper structure. Surely we could have binned the idea of drafting our 23rd half back flanker and got in a KPF. Assuming we will trade for one or have a dip in free agency.

Have mentioned this before as well. the actual age of the entire vfl set up makes it very hard to win.

The magoos are screaming out for Mature types to lead and protect the kids.

Last time i looked give or take the odd player we have Morris and two 24 yr olds and then every one is 22 or under apart from when older afl listed players are down there which would only be Caddy and Parker so far this year.

Its one of the reasons why i had hoped we could get players like Skinner Schlensog Dunstan Finlayson even to provide the leadeship along with Caddy Aarts Parker and provide cover when injuries did hit if kids were not ready.
Title: Re: List management
Post by: Andyy on April 04, 2022, 04:26:44 PM
Even for the most optimistic supporters I think the writing must be on the wall now. Timing your run still means winning games like Carlton and Saints when you have handy leads in the 3rd quarter but we have clearly lost our ability to run out games against even modestly talented teams.


I luv these sort of threads.

If another club happened to read them they would pee themselves silly at some of the suggestions. No one is giving anything for Castagna or Caddy

Also its pretty obvious you've got no idea when you are nominating Biggy and RCD for delisting. Biggy is going very nicely indeed.

See my next post re: caddy.

George I reckon would get something but nothing huge.

Biggie going nicely huh? Wanna bookmark this? Because we just recruited Tarrant and Gibcus is getting games. Miller dropped. So it looks like biggie has at least 2 other kids ahead of him.
Title: Re: List management
Post by: Andyy on April 04, 2022, 04:34:27 PM
Why are people delisting Cumberland all of a sudden? Like to see how he goes in the seniors first... :shh

...and Ryan's a project ruckman ffs...he's going to be given more than just two years...will probably get at least 4 and there will be plenty of ups & downs along the way like their usually is with those types....... :shh :shh

Cumberland in his third season, so as I said before any of those kids that show a bit you'd keep but if they still haven't shown enough by the end of the year you'd have to ask the question.

Ryan has the best case for being retained (the tall excuse) but you'd want to see steady improvement despite brief down moments.
Title: Re: List management
Post by: the claw on April 04, 2022, 08:43:34 PM
Why are people delisting Cumberland all of a sudden? Like to see how he goes in the seniors first... :shh

...and Ryan's a project ruckman ffs...he's going to be given more than just two years...will probably get at least 4 and there will be plenty of ups & downs along the way like their usually is with those types....... :shh :shh

Cumberland in his third season, so as I said before any of those kids that show a bit you'd keep but if they still haven't shown enough by the end of the year you'd have to ask the question.

Ryan has the best case for being retained (the tall excuse) but you'd want to see steady improvement despite brief down moments.
In fairness to Cumberland he was drafted 2019 just before covid struck and in amongst that he copped a serious knee injury.

Plenty of reasons to be patient with him.
Title: Re: List management
Post by: Jonesracing82 on April 05, 2022, 12:20:16 AM
Not only are ppl here gutting our list, we are also getting rid of those who have set up our culture as well.
Title: Re: List management
Post by: Andyy on April 05, 2022, 11:14:44 AM
Not only are ppl here gutting our list, we are also getting rid of those who have set up our culture as well.

That's why you need to space them out a bit I suppose, but there is no way we can continue to carry that handful of older guys for more than a couple of years, three max.

I don't think all those kids need to be delisted at once but I haven't seen enough for me to be doing mid-year contracts just yet I suppose.
Title: Re: List management
Post by: the claw on April 05, 2022, 11:39:06 PM
The complete lack of key forwards coming through is agitating. Makes it hard for the 2's to have a proper structure. Surely we could have binned the idea of drafting our 23rd half back flanker and got in a KPF. Assuming we will trade for one or have a dip in free agency.
Not just key fwds if Miller plays seniors then there is only Nyuon. Same for ruckmen there is only Ryan atm.

Have always said we need to mirror what we want in the seniors in the two's. 

That means at a minimum 4 key fwds and  2 tall fwds or third talls. The same in defence 4 KPDS two for seniors two for ressies with two third tall types  in this instance we have two third tall types in the seniors with Grimes who can play KP if needed and Grimes.

it can be mixed a little as well instead of two  third tall fwds one could  be a stuff.  it means if we play two ruckmen we need 4 on the list two to play ressies hopefully one at least is a ruck/fwd and ideally  we want all of  them at varying stages of devevelopment.

With lists of 44 then 16 talls of varying types is the ideal. It allows for development in the twos, depth for the seniors and leaves a massive amount of room for mids and flanker types to play both afl and two's.

In our three flags we had  nine mids who were primarily mids but some could play else where at the same time. Ie Martin goes fwd or same with Bolton edwards.

If 9 is the number, then  we want to mirror it in the twos and that means we want 18 mids all up whose primary role is mid. That still leaves 10 spots for small/med types who are specialist defenders or fwds  on the flanks and pockets for both teams.

It is not written in stone but its a damn good starting point, it may be 16 mids with 12 specialist sml med flanker types. or it may be 15 talls with a 188 189cm medium.

Take it as a starting point then pencil in the types you need in each area and what types we don't have.

One thing for sure the holes are all there for people to see if they are willing to look.
Title: Re: List management
Post by: Jonesracing82 on April 05, 2022, 11:49:13 PM
Not only are ppl here gutting our list, we are also getting rid of those who have set up our culture as well.

That's why you need to space them out a bit I suppose, but there is no way we can continue to carry that handful of older guys for more than a couple of years, three max.

I don't think all those kids need to be delisted at once but I haven't seen enough for me to be doing mid-year contracts just yet I suppose.
They certainly need to be staggered, the way some are posting we should discard them all at the end of this yr Norf did that 2 yrs ago & look at them now, it'll take them years to get a culture etc going again. the ones who stay shouldn't be guaranteed games however.
Title: Re: List management
Post by: the claw on April 06, 2022, 12:07:39 AM
Not only are ppl here gutting our list, we are also getting rid of those who have set up our culture as well.

That's why you need to space them out a bit I suppose, but there is no way we can continue to carry that handful of older guys for more than a couple of years, three max.

I don't think all those kids need to be delisted at once but I haven't seen enough for me to be doing mid-year contracts just yet I suppose.
They certainly need to be staggered, the way some are posting we should discard them all at the end of this yr Norf did that 2 yrs ago & look at them now, it'll take them years to get a culture etc going again. the ones who stay shouldn't be guaranteed games however.
I agree with this but it is not beyond the realms of possibility that six  could retire at the end of the season given given health injury and form issues without us tapping any of them on the shoulder.
Title: Re: List management
Post by: MintOnLamb on April 06, 2022, 05:36:29 AM
The bullet needs to be bitten.
Houli would be getting a game ATM.

The future lies forward.
Title: Re: List management
Post by: Francois Jackson on April 06, 2022, 07:15:06 AM
Does anyone have the contract status of our main guys?

It would really hurt to see Prestia not finish out the year, though if it happens we need to do something. Having him and Dusty out walking laps doing sfa into next year is 2 Tom Greens not at our club. Prestia deserved his 2 years extension as it came on the back of a flag,  but paying him 800k till he is 32 years old is crazy if he isn’t playing consistently.




Title: Re: List management
Post by: Andyy on April 06, 2022, 08:19:22 AM
Does anyone have the contract status of our main guys?

It would really hurt to see Prestia not finish out the year, though if it happens we need to do something. Having him and Dusty out walking laps doing sfa into next year is 2 Tom Greens not at our club. Prestia deserved his 2 years extension as it came on the back of a flag,  but paying him 800k till he is 32 years old is crazy if he isn’t playing consistently.






Prestia is contracted until end 2024.

Was extended early 2020, then he went on to miss a lot of games.

At a minimum we should have waited until later in the year because he missed so much footy.

Not sure if he's on $800k until the very end but it's still a concern anyway, to be paying a guy that much when he can't play half a season. I suspect we will pay for these contracts for years beyond their completion (Lynch, and maybe Dusty also) however I guess that was the price of the dynasty and without those lucrative contracts we might not have had all 3 flags.
Title: Re: List management
Post by: Chuck17 on April 06, 2022, 09:14:17 AM
Does anyone have the contract status of our main guys?

It would really hurt to see Prestia not finish out the year, though if it happens we need to do something. Having him and Dusty out walking laps doing sfa into next year is 2 Tom Greens not at our club. Prestia deserved his 2 years extension as it came on the back of a flag,  but paying him 800k till he is 32 years old is crazy if he isn’t playing consistently.






Prestia is contracted until end 2024.

Was extended early 2020, then he went on to miss a lot of games.

At a minimum we should have waited until later in the year because he missed so much footy.

Not sure if he's on $800k until the very end but it's still a concern anyway, to be paying a guy that much when he can't play half a season. I suspect we will pay for these contracts for years beyond their completion (Lynch, and maybe Dusty also) however I guess that was the price of the dynasty and without those lucrative contracts we might not have had all 3 flags.

Thats a ripper $/game ratio coming up
Title: Re: List management
Post by: Jonesracing82 on April 07, 2022, 12:35:37 AM
Not only are ppl here gutting our list, we are also getting rid of those who have set up our culture as well.

That's why you need to space them out a bit I suppose, but there is no way we can continue to carry that handful of older guys for more than a couple of years, three max.

I don't think all those kids need to be delisted at once but I haven't seen enough for me to be doing mid-year contracts just yet I suppose.
They certainly need to be staggered, the way some are posting we should discard them all at the end of this yr Norf did that 2 yrs ago & look at them now, it'll take them years to get a culture etc going again. the ones who stay shouldn't be guaranteed games however.
I agree with this but it is not beyond the realms of possibility that six  could retire at the end of the season given given health injury and form issues without us tapping any of them on the shoulder.

I agree here that it is possible, ideally we need to stagger them otherwise we'll fall off a cliff
Title: Re: List management
Post by: Andyy on April 24, 2022, 10:14:38 PM
Other than being decent blokes, what reasons can we offer for keeping the following on our list after this year?

Caddy
Edwards
Parker
Castagna
Aarts
RCD
Martyn
Cumberland

I suppose Biggie gets a reprieve because he's tall? Despite Gibcus demonstrating that talent shines through in spite of age and physical maturity.
Title: Re: List management
Post by: Tiger Khosh on April 24, 2022, 10:34:31 PM
Other than being decent blokes, what reasons can we offer for keeping the following on our list after this year?

Caddy
Edwards
Parker
Castagna
Aarts
RCD
Martyn
Cumberland

I suppose Biggie gets a reprieve because he's tall? Despite Gibcus demonstrating that talent shines through in spite of age and physical maturity.

Are any of them still contracted for next season? That would be one reason why they’re still on the list.

I’d wait to see more than 1 game from RCD at afl level and give Martyn and Cumberland some more opportunities before putting them in the list with the rest of that lot.
Title: Re: List management
Post by: Simonator on April 24, 2022, 10:34:49 PM
We need to make some big moves in free agency and trade to not hit rock bottom and go through the draft. Like how Geelong has done it ( but hopefully win more flags )
Tom Greene would be a huge get.
Title: Re: List management
Post by: Tigeritis™©® on April 24, 2022, 10:54:43 PM
We needed mids and everyone knows it but what do we do? Nothing.

Relying on Ross and Dow and RCD as the next wave is bloody dreaming.

Title: Re: List management
Post by: Tigeritis™©® on April 24, 2022, 11:57:17 PM
Watching the VFL today and our midfield is light on and so is our forward line for key position players.

Our defence at least has players in it, whether they are good enough is another question but we are stocked full with defenders.

We need mids and forwards as there’s nothing coming through besides maybe Sonsie as a mid and Clarke as a small forward.
Title: Re: List management
Post by: TigerLand on April 25, 2022, 01:45:49 AM
Which is absolutely mind boggling we got Tarrant. With Biggie and Miller back there. We atleast have cavalry.

We absolutely should have got a Dunston, Greenwood type in. Makes absolutely no sense to have Tarrant taking games away from Miller whilst bit having anyone to come in for our of form Edwards, Castagna.
Title: Re: List management
Post by: Rampsation on April 25, 2022, 11:11:33 AM
Weve dropped the ball with list mansgement over last 3 years. Weve drunk our own bathwater now we pay the price. Its back to the for us draft boys.
Title: Re: List management
Post by: Rampsation on April 25, 2022, 11:18:23 AM
Our first opportunity to win a flag could be 2025 or 2026. The process of getting that premiership list together started last year with a few draftees from the years before.

So that is:

Gibcus
Brown
Banks
Sonsie
Clarke

Ralphsmith
Dow
M.Rioli Jnr.
Collier Dawkins

Bolton and Balta the 2 players we need to keep.

We need another 5 kids in the next Draft
and some new free agents over the next 3 years.

We need to start trading out if we can to bring in
Earlier picks inside 30 if we can.

What this shows is we need more of everything.
Another 2 kpp and
Another 2 contested ball winners just for starters.
Maybe another outside mid as well.
5 picks. 2kpp 2contested mids 1 outside mid.
That should be our next draft

Title: Re: List management
Post by: Rampsation on April 25, 2022, 12:28:21 PM
We need to look back at our own recent history. Our Dynasty started with the recruitment many of us including me thought were duds. Bachar Houli and Shaun Grigg. Its time to scour other clubs lists.

On big footy someone has raised the names of xavier o'halloran from gws and ely smith from brisbane. They were high draft picks but arent getting a go. Smith has been injured. Both are early 20s. Both are bigger bodied mudfielders. O'halloran shows leadership. Both would be relatively cheap to get salary cap and draft pick wise. We need Hartley to do pick the eyes out of other clubs lists and bring in 2 or 3 moneyball type players ala grigg and houli. I dont know if theyll work out but we wouldnt lose anything by trying.
Title: Re: List management
Post by: Gigantor on April 25, 2022, 07:01:10 PM
Over the past few weeks my friends and i who attend the games have had many discussions on list management ,and i think my cousin summed it up perfectly recently.And my apologies to him if i dont get it all right ,but he said..."the bellies of our team are full ,theres no hunger left in this group,thus we are seeing the fumbles and the second to the contest ,things we arent used to ,or havent seen in nearly 5 years..
We also have to take into account the off field happenings.
1.Brendon gale is possibly going to take over as CEO of the AFL..hes certainly one of the clear favourites right now.
2.Peggy will retire from the club at seasons end(certainly no longer president)
3.Balmy is dealing with his health issues
4.Dimma has had to deal with his own off field issues of late.
Just maybe all the above have ever so slightly taken their eye off the task at hand.
Im speculating here thats all.the club has given an amazing ride the past few years and im forever grateful ,but certainly change is about to happen i thinks.lets sit tight and see what happens

Title: Re: List management
Post by: Rampsation on April 25, 2022, 07:58:22 PM
If Brendon Gale leaves id expect either
Andrew Dillon or Cain Liddle will get the CEO post.

I expect Peggy to be replaced by either
John O'Rourke or Joe Powell

Balmey we just need him to stay because with a lot of change there can be instability.

And Dimma will get on with his job.

I think we will be alright. We will have good candidates available where change needs to happen.
Title: Re: List management
Post by: camboon on April 25, 2022, 08:57:59 PM
Agree life goes on, I think the club and playing group are in for big changes that will mean a rebuild . I hope we don’t go out and get older players and players who can’t get a game in the seniors at their current club, we tried that which resulted in 30 years plus waiting for a premiership and a lot of winning games at the end of the year so we finished 9th so Terry Wallet could get a contract extension.
Title: Re: List management
Post by: Jonesracing82 on April 25, 2022, 11:59:54 PM
Hit the Draft this yr, if we bomb out this season we'll get 3 picks under 25 incl Norfs 2nd rounder. Add 2 inside mids & a Key Fwd to the crop from last yr & that's a decent spine built in 2 yrs with 8 picks under 32 or 8 2nd rounders, whichever way you want to put it, in 2 yrs.
Title: Re: List management
Post by: the claw on April 26, 2022, 09:15:11 AM
Over the past few weeks my friends and i who attend the games have had many discussions on list management ,and i think my cousin summed it up perfectly recently.And my apologies to him if i dont get it all right ,but he said..."the bellies of our team are full ,theres no hunger left in this group,thus we are seeing the fumbles and the second to the contest ,things we arent used to ,or havent seen in nearly 5 years..
We also have to take into account the off field happenings.
1.Brendon gale is possibly going to take over as CEO of the AFL..hes certainly one of the clear favourites right now.
2.Peggy will retire from the club at seasons end(certainly no longer president)
3.Balmy is dealing with his health issues
4.Dimma has had to deal with his own off field issues of late.
Just maybe all the above have ever so slightly taken their eye off the task at hand.
Im speculating here thats all.the club has given an amazing ride the past few years and im forever grateful ,but certainly change is about to happen i thinks.lets sit tight and see what happens

Hunger or is just age the fact our best players cannot do what they used to do. I know we dont want to talk about that but its more likely than a loss of hunger
Title: Re: List management
Post by: georgies31 on April 26, 2022, 10:26:50 AM
Over the past few weeks my friends and i who attend the games have had many discussions on list management ,and i think my cousin summed it up perfectly recently.And my apologies to him if i dont get it all right ,but he said..."the bellies of our team are full ,theres no hunger left in this group,thus we are seeing the fumbles and the second to the contest ,things we arent used to ,or havent seen in nearly 5 years..
We also have to take into account the off field happenings.
1.Brendon gale is possibly going to take over as CEO of the AFL..hes certainly one of the clear favourites right now.
2.Peggy will retire from the club at seasons end(certainly no longer president)
3.Balmy is dealing with his health issues
4.Dimma has had to deal with his own off field issues of late.
Just maybe all the above have ever so slightly taken their eye off the task at hand.
Im speculating here thats all.the club has given an amazing ride the past few years and im forever grateful ,but certainly change is about to happen i thinks.lets sit tight and see what happens

Hunger or is just age the fact our best players cannot do what they used to do. I know we dont want to talk about that but its more likely than a loss of hunger

I reckon it's a mixture of both.This group gave us 3 flags and took opportunity with both hands time to rejuvenate now. I don't want us to be stuck in another 30 years before challenging again we have to get this right.
Title: Re: List management
Post by: the claw on April 26, 2022, 07:22:52 PM
Agree life goes on, I think the club and playing group are in for big changes that will mean a rebuild . I hope we don’t go out and get older players and players who can’t get a game in the seniors at their current club, we tried that which resulted in 30 years plus waiting for a premiership and a lot of winning games at the end of the year so we finished 9th so Terry Wallet could get a contract extension.

 while im all for basically useing as many top 40 picks as possible i have never been one who thinks we should not be targeting older players as well. Get both  right and you can transform your list quickly. There are and have been some fantastic money ball type picks out there weather its thru F/A  or utilising the rookie draft. Just because you go into rebuild it should not mean we ignore this source of finding good players. Look in the state leagues and you will surely find.

Mate it could be as simple as value adding to improve the list, that is finding a player who is a slight improvement on a player getting a game.

Lots of good reasons why not just us but all clubs should do this.

Take our key fwd stocks atm. I have always thought we should be trying to mirror what we do in the seniors in the magoos.
Our trouble atm is we dont have a junior key fwd 18-21 and we certainly dont have a 22 - 24 yo developing nicely  who could play seniors and is primed to take Jacks spot.
The short term answer to that is go and draft a quality junior and target a mature fwd who can cover in the seniors if need be.
 i don't believe the magoos should just be a place for 22 and unders those kids need mature bodies around them finding the right balance i suppose is the real key.

I would have been more than happy for us to take one  of Finlayson or Skinner take Schenslog instead of Parker along with say Drafting Jacob Van Rooyen with our pick 17.

We then structure up with a  mature bodied player in the two,s who can guide and protect the kids we have a 22 yr old well along the development  path and both should   offer us some cover if injuries did hit.  we have a highly rated first yr junior it would be ideal not taking games away from kids but helping them while providing a bit of cover while the kids develop.
Thats just accepting the situation the list is in.

Title: Re: List management
Post by: camboon on April 26, 2022, 08:53:42 PM
I would suggest if your targeting older players , pick players who are getting a game  in the seniors in their current side or a players who are young and showing enough in and out of the seniors in their current team
Targeting older players in the 80’s  to 2000 was a disaster.
Players from the vfa is usually for the rookie draft imo

First and second picks should always be for kids , picks through trades and late pick for older players the only exception being an A grader.

It just my opinion but most premiership sides build with youth, get lucky with a star or two and recruit a A grader or two
Title: Re: List management
Post by: Tigeritis™©® on April 30, 2022, 04:25:34 PM
Any chance of luring Jake Riccardi from GWS?

We need a player to take over from Riewoldt and we can keep Balta in defence.

Or Are there any other forwards not getting senior games for other teams?
Title: Re: List management
Post by: HKTigerB on April 30, 2022, 04:33:31 PM
Any chance of luring Jake Riccardi from GWS?

We need a player to take over from Riewoldt and we can keep Balta in defence.

Or Are there any other forwards not getting senior games for other teams?

Callum Coleman-Jones ???
Title: Re: List management
Post by: FooffooValve on April 30, 2022, 04:34:46 PM
Any chance of luring Jake Riccardi from GWS?

We need a player to take over from Riewoldt and we can keep Balta in defence.

Or Are there any other forwards not getting senior games for other teams?

Maybe Thilthorpe.
Title: Re: List management
Post by: WilliamPowell on April 30, 2022, 05:37:41 PM


Or Are there any other forwards not getting senior games for other teams?

Mason Cox  :snidegrin
Title: Re: List management
Post by: Tigeritis™©® on May 01, 2022, 11:23:34 PM


Or Are there any other forwards not getting senior games for other teams?

Mason Cox  :snidegrin
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!