One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: one-eyed on May 26, 2023, 01:55:14 AM
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What shape is the Tiger list in for next coach?
Marc McGowan
The Age
May 25, 2023
List analysis guru Chris Pelchen believes Richmond could have made a call sooner on some of their premiership veterans, but did not err in recruiting ex-Giants Tim Taranto and Jacob Hopper.
Interim Tigers coach Andrew McQualter assumes the reins of the AFL’s fourth-oldest and second-most experienced list after Damien Hardwick’s shock resignation this week.
The Tigers’ average age and games played entering round 11 is 26.64 years (behind Geelong, Collingwood and Western Bulldogs) and 108.7 (trailing only the Cats), respectively, ahead of their clash with Port Adelaide at the MCG on Sunday.
Those are the demographics of a team that typically would be contending for a flag, but Saturday night’s heart-breaking last-gasp loss to Essendon left Richmond in 14th, with three wins and a draw from 10 matches.
Pelchen, who worked at Hawthorn, Port Adelaide and St Kilda, told Money Talks he did not expect the Tigers to play finals this year or next in the post-Hardwick era, but would not be surprised if they rebounded quickly after that.
“Their list is sound without being ready to take another leap forward,” he said.
“They went out to get Taranto and Hopper in the hope of maintaining their standing, and with a better run of injuries, try to compete for a premiership again – but that’s gone awry.
“It certainly hasn’t worked out how they would have planned. Giving up the high draft choices doesn’t read as well now as it potentially did in the pre-season. I wouldn’t say they were mistakes, but it was a high-risk strategy.”
The Tigers’ list is in transition after the club’s extraordinary success between 2017-20 that netted three premierships and a preliminary final appearance, but they are attempting to do so on the run.
That much was obvious when they offloaded picks 12 and 19 last year for 25-year-old Taranto, and this year’s first-round selection and No. 31 in 2022 for 26-year-old Hopper and picks 53 and 63.
Taranto should be leading Richmond’s best-and-fairest award, while Hopper played some strong games before injuring a calf in round nine.
Pelchen rates both players highly and one reason he remains positive about the deals is that he felt the Tigers needed to add to their 24-to-27 age group.
Shai Bolton, Noah Balta, Liam Baker, Daniel Rioli and Jack Graham join Taranto and Hopper as important members of the mid-20s group.
But Richmond’s struggles this year means that the Hopper deal would currently hand the Giants what is provisionally the fifth pick in a strong draft, although Pelchen said all decisions on future trading were speculative.
Two of the club’s modern greats, Trent Cotchin and Jack Riewoldt, are expected to retire at season’s end, as almost certainly will ex-Kangaroo Robbie Tarrant, which would reduce the number of players older than 30 to six.
Co-captain Dylan Grimes re-signed for another year this month, while fellow premiership stars Dustin Martin and Dion Prestia are also contracted until the end of next season, and Tom Lynch is locked in until 2025.
Nathan Broad is an unrestricted free agent who has been linked with a move home to West Coast, and Marlion Pickett is out of contract but has played every game this year – and discussions are tracking positively for him to be retained.
Nick Vlastuin, co-captain Toby Nankervis and Kamdyn McIntosh also turn 30 in 2024.
“Traditionally, you wouldn’t want to ever have more than half a dozen players over 30,” Pelchen said.
“You need a tapering in your list demographics ... what conspired against them was the group was so talented that they held on for longer – usually two or three would fall away as a natural rate of attrition, from form or injury.
“With a little more luck with injuries – Nankervis and Lynch particularly – they could be in a very different position this week, and people would not be having this conversation.”
The Tigers’ best 22-and-under talent includes Josh Gibcus, breakout big man Samson Ryan, Maurice Rioli, Hugo Ralphsmith, Tyler Sonsie, Jack Ross, Judson Clarke, Noah Cumberland and Thomson Dow.
“It’s not the best under-22 group in the competition, but you wouldn’t expect that with where they have [been] picked in the draft,” Pelchen said.
“It’s an acceptable young group, it’s OK, and it’s not a case where they need to start again, but they do need to invest in the draft in the coming years.”
Others without a deal for next year are Ralphsmith, McIntosh, Rhyan Mansell, 2019 first-round draft pick Dow – brother of Paddy – rookies Bigoa Nyuon, Mate Colina, Jacob Bauer, Seth Campbell and Kaelan Bradtke.
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/what-shape-is-the-tiger-list-in-for-next-coach-20230522-p5daa5.html
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Thought this would be a popular thread apparently no one has an opinion these days on where the list and kids sit.
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i think the list is in terrible shape. There are holes everywhere and without top end talent we are in strife for 3-5 years following the hawks position.
at the earliest i see top draft picks coming next year, and even then they wont reach 50 games until 2026. Lynch after next year will be cooked so his departure can add further misery to our forward line.
I see our best line being our defence with balta, baker, riolo and gibcus relatively young and very classy players.
Bolton is a great player when he wants to be. Who else have we got coming through? guys like Brown will decide how quickly we rebound. if we botched that up which i suspect we have then are in big trouble. Add to that dow who i think is a very average player and our good picks were all duds.
Hopper was a mistake ,no matter how you dress it up. If we were chasing another flag, which most people know we were, then Tom Mitchell could have slotted into that role and we would have banked those picks.
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Thought this would be a popular thread apparently no one has an opinion these days on where the list and kids sit.
There are multiple extensive threads on the state of our list, you nonce…
Most of which are ruined by your long-winded, predicable, self-important rants. :lol
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Thought this would be a popular thread apparently no one has an opinion these days on where the list and kids sit.
There are multiple extensive threads on the state of our list, you nonce…
Most of which are ruined by your long-winded, predicable, self-important rants. :lol
Exactly. Why bother posting when some narcist will just come along and insult you, the players, the coaches, the recruiting team, the medical team and whatever else they think they know better about. Fact is most here (like me) have no inside knowledge of what is really going on in any of these fields. Sure we have some opinions but If we are honest ourselves we really know stuff all about the reasons things happen inside the Club. Those in charge of all those fields are not stupid and there will be reasons behind the decisions they make, they may not pan out as expected but given this is a results based industry they will normally pay the price if they make too many bad ones.
I count myself blessed to be around during this amazing period of the RFC success. Its a tough game and premierships are hard to win, there must of been a lot of good decisions made in the last 10 years. Some should maybe reflect on that before they comment.
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Thought this would be a popular thread apparently no one has an opinion these days on where the list and kids sit.
There are multiple extensive threads on the state of our list, you nonce…
Most of which are ruined by your long-winded, predicable, self-important rants. :lol
Exactly. Why bother posting when some narcist will just come along and insult you, the players, the coaches, the recruiting team, the medical team and whatever else they think they know better about. Fact is most here (like me) have no inside knowledge of what is really going on in any of these fields. Sure we have some opinions but If we are honest ourselves we really know stuff all about the reasons things happen inside the Club. Those in charge of all those fields are not stupid and there will be reasons behind the decisions they make, they may not pan out as expected but given this is a results based industry they will normally pay the price if they make too many bad ones.
I count myself blessed to be around during this amazing period of the RFC success. Its a tough game and premierships are hard to win, there must of been a lot of good decisions made in the last 10 years. Some should maybe reflect on that before they comment.
Wow! Nailed it! :cheers
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Thought this would be a popular thread apparently no one has an opinion these days on where the list and kids sit.
There are multiple extensive threads on the state of our list, you nonce…
Most of which are ruined by your long-winded, predicable, self-important rants. :lol
Exactly. Why bother posting when some narcist will just come along and insult you, the players, the coaches, the recruiting team, the medical team and whatever else they think they know better about. Fact is most here (like me) have no inside knowledge of what is really going on in any of these fields. Sure we have some opinions but If we are honest ourselves we really know stuff all about the reasons things happen inside the Club. Those in charge of all those fields are not stupid and there will be reasons behind the decisions they make, they may not pan out as expected but given this is a results based industry they will normally pay the price if they make too many bad ones.
I count myself blessed to be around during this amazing period of the RFC success. Its a tough game and premierships are hard to win, there must of been a lot of good decisions made in the last 10 years. Some should maybe reflect on that before they comment.
Wow! Nailed it! :cheers
:clapping
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:rollin
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Thought this would be a popular thread apparently no one has an opinion these days on where the list and kids sit.
There are multiple extensive threads on the state of our list, you nonce…
Most of which are ruined by your long-winded, predicable, self-important rants. :lol
Exactly. Why bother posting when some narcist will just come along and insult you, the players, the coaches, the recruiting team, the medical team and whatever else they think they know better about. Fact is most here (like me) have no inside knowledge of what is really going on in any of these fields. Sure we have some opinions but If we are honest ourselves we really know stuff all about the reasons things happen inside the Club. Those in charge of all those fields are not stupid and there will be reasons behind the decisions they make, they may not pan out as expected but given this is a results based industry they will normally pay the price if they make too many bad ones.
I count myself blessed to be around during this amazing period of the RFC success. Its a tough game and premierships are hard to win, there must of been a lot of good decisions made in the last 10 years. Some should maybe reflect on that before they comment.
:thumbsup
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Thought this would be a popular thread apparently no one has an opinion these days on where the list and kids sit.
There are multiple extensive threads on the state of our list, you nonce…
Most of which are ruined by your long-winded, predicable, self-important rants. :lol
Exactly. Why bother posting when some narcist will just come along and insult you, the players, the coaches, the recruiting team, the medical team and whatever else they think they know better about. Fact is most here (like me) have no inside knowledge of what is really going on in any of these fields. Sure we have some opinions but If we are honest ourselves we really know stuff all about the reasons things happen inside the Club. Those in charge of all those fields are not stupid and there will be reasons behind the decisions they make, they may not pan out as expected but given this is a results based industry they will normally pay the price if they make too many bad ones.
I count myself blessed to be around during this amazing period of the RFC success. Its a tough game and premierships are hard to win, there must of been a lot of good decisions made in the last 10 years. Some should maybe reflect on that before they comment.
:thumbsup
With all that said I am not convinced the next crop of players coming though are going to keep us in contention. I àm very willing to be proven wrong though.
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Fluffy I get your fear about out future.I too am starting. To worry , however I do think these youngsters need time and games to develop , we just got to be patient
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Agree, If we can’t make the finals we need to play all the kids , if they can’t show anything no good persevering but they deserve an opportunity in most cases
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Thought this would be a popular thread apparently no one has an opinion these days on where the list and kids sit.
There are multiple extensive threads on the state of our list, you nonce…
Most of which are ruined by your long-winded, predicable, self-important rants. :lol
Of course there are other threads but this one actually asked the question of which the rose coloureds chose to ignore until someone asked why.
And look at the replies which says more about you nuffies than this nonce. ;)
I just love the name calling it says without a doubt what im saying is hitting home. To extract such hysterical replies it only shows some people don't like to hear the truth and are not living in the real world.It really does show they are closed books and only want to hear good things about their club. Yep just ignore the bad it isn't really happening.
As usual many of those who complain about me are coming around to what i say.You only need look at this thread.
Most like you never address whats been said because then you would have to be realistic and honest with yourself. Nope better to pretend all is well and abuse instead and then complain when it comes back at ya.
Oh and just to finish this is another thread where it has not been me who started the abuse i rarely do, but again ive shown im more than happy to wear it.
softies like you who start it squeal like stuck pigs when you cop it back.
Ah well onwards we go. This week like you im gunna stick my head up my arse and pretend things are all good.
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i think the list is in terrible shape. There are holes everywhere and without top end talent we are in strife for 3-5 years following the hawks position.
at the earliest i see top draft picks coming next year, and even then they wont reach 50 games until 2026. Lynch after next year will be cooked so his departure can add further misery to our forward line.
I see our best line being our defence with balta, baker, riolo and gibcus relatively young and very classy players.
Bolton is a great player when he wants to be. Who else have we got coming through? guys like Brown will decide how quickly we rebound. if we botched that up which i suspect we have then are in big trouble. Add to that dow who i think is a very average player and our good picks were all duds.
Hopper was a mistake ,no matter how you dress it up. If we were chasing another flag, which most people know we were, then Tom Mitchell could have slotted into that role and we would have banked those picks.
Ah some honesty well done sir. A bit to negative for some id say. Can i ask are you too a narcissist. :snidegrin
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Pear shaped.... :shh
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Our list needs work, some are way over dramatic about it. It lacks quality talls. Simple as that.
Bolton Taranto would be midfielders in an under 25 All Aus team. Balta would probably make that too. I can see 5 guys being off our list next year
Jack
Cotchin
Tarrant
Broad (sadly)
McIntosh (30 next year needs to be moved on)
There are 5 best 22 players when all fit. We need 2 KP forwards minimum. Did that or forward structure is fixed which is part of the problem
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:lol
Forwards are a dime a dozen as are effective small crumbing forwards. :shh
Midfielders we have it sorted so no issues here with Dion, shai turns it on every game.
Agree we should be flying for years to come.
Unfortunately those comments are probably what Dimma saw in the list, and it’s why we are where we are and have been for 2 years now. He wasn’t a stupid man and knew this list is finished in its current state.
This is not a list that will win a flag IMO, and it’s been clear for 2 years now. The sooner we admit it and make some hard calls the quicker the pain will be. Our defense is the only line that is a pass at this stage as long as Balta tracks the same as Rance, if not then all we have is a defender who like Shai turns it on when he can and we will need some more quality back there.
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Love Nank & Grimes but new coach should revert back to a single captain.
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Thought this would be a popular thread apparently no one has an opinion these days on where the list and kids sit.
There are multiple extensive threads on the state of our list, you nonce…
Most of which are ruined by your long-winded, predicable, self-important rants. :lol
I just love the name calling it says without a doubt what im saying is hitting home. To extract such hysterical replies it only shows some people don't like to hear the truth and are not living in the real world.It really does show they are closed books and only want to hear good things about their club. Yep just ignore the bad it isn't really happening.
god you really do rate yourself as some sort of courageous internet hero fighting every day for the sacred truth, dont you? Why aren't you a professional list manager, man?! Go live your truth brother! :lol
Please point out where anyone on this forum said things are currently "all good"... Everyone can see the list needs work. The system is designed to be cyclical, so after three flags, there are gonna be a few holes. It doesn't take a genius to see that, sorry bud.
What we dont need is 30 tedious, chest-beating essays from you on the topic every day :lol
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Thought this would be a popular thread apparently no one has an opinion these days on where the list and kids sit.
There are multiple extensive threads on the state of our list, you nonce…
Most of which are ruined by your long-winded, predicable, self-important rants. :lol
I just love the name calling it says without a doubt what im saying is hitting home. To extract such hysterical replies it only shows some people don't like to hear the truth and are not living in the real world.It really does show they are closed books and only want to hear good things about their club. Yep just ignore the bad it isn't really happening.
god you really do rate yourself as some sort of courageous internet hero fighting every day for the sacred truth, dont you? Why aren't you a professional list manager, man?! Go live your truth brother! :lol
Please point out where anyone on this forum said things are currently "all good"... Everyone can see the list needs work. The system is designed to be cyclical, so after three flags, there are gonna be a few holes. It doesn't take a genius to see that, sorry bud.
What we dont need is 30 tedious, chest-beating essays from you on the topic every day :lol
Truth!
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Hope we dont have to wait another 30 odd years or so
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Is Richmond’s list in a world of pain?
Kane Cornes
SEN
30 May 2023
“Port Adelaide had 10 players under 24 on Sunday, Richmond had seven.
“How many of the seven that Richmond had do you predict will be 200-game players?
“Jack Ross I’ve got as a no, won’t get to 200 games.
“Hugo Ralphsmith is a goer, he has a crack, there’s something about him that’s admirable, but I don’t think he’s going to get to 200.
“Noah Balta, yes, definitely a 200-game player.
“Rhyan Mansell, once again it’s early and hard to judge and he plays a really difficult position. He’s got attributes that I really like, I reckon he’ll get to 150. I’m not giving him 200.
“Samson Ryan I’ve got as a no. Maybe harsh because he’s a developing forward and he’s really tall and they take some time.
“Judson Clarke I think will, and Ben Miller is a no.
“Then you look at who they played against and the 10 under-24s the Power had - Connor Rozee, Zak Butters, Jason Horne-Francis, Miles Bergman, there’s bit to like about Ollie Lord but not sure whether he gets to 200, Dylan Williams there’s a bit to like about him.
“Are they (the Tigers) in a world of pain with their list?”
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2023/05/30/kane-cornes-seven-observations-from-round-11-of-the-2023-afl-season/
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Lol
HRS a goer
Mansell 150
Ryan a fail
This guy has NFI
Comparing them to #1 JHF lol
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Lol
HRS a goer
Mansell 150
Ryan a fail
This guy has NFI
Comparing them to #1 JHF lol
Hugo is a goer
Of that there is no doubt at all
Will go where contact is avoided quicker than anyone I’ve seen pull on a Richmond jumper
What Hugo provides is a bit of dash .. stick him in the VFL or on a wing possibly if need be
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No mention of Gibcus, Sonsie or the Cubs that haven't debut yet eg Banks, Bauer, Bradtke, Brown or those who have played a handful of games lie Biggie, MJR
Cornes has simply looked at the team that took the field last week
More click bair from the failed firemen