One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: Chuck17 on December 15, 2008, 05:02:46 PM
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Ok since we love polls so much here is another, would you take Ben in the PSD over a kid or some other recycled player.
Keep in mind that the RFC has already made its stance clear on selecting a kid at number 6 and to reverse that now may make them look a little foolish.
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Just repeating what I said in the other thread. I would go for the best kid. Cousins 2008/9 is a 30 year old short-term option at best who hasn't played footy for 15 months and counting, who did his hammy in that comeback game after missing 10? weeks before that, who is also a recovering drug addict with stipulations on him that don't apply to any other AFL player even those who are on two strikes. If we had been given pick 7 then we were getting Cuz for nothing and I would've been willing to take the (no) risk of giving him one last chance. But now we have to decide to pick him over a kid at pick 6. Now sure this kid could end up a dud who doesn't last 2 years but he could also be the next Foley for all we know and ends up having a 10 year career when Cousins will be long forgotten.
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Richmond better draft BEN omg
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Gourdis - was not good enough to get drafted in two national drafts, was delisted (behind Schultz/Hughes types) ...
KKK - Kops Kill Kids? Some random kid. Andy Collins is prolly a better footballer.
Get Cousins FFS.
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I want what is best for the RFC ....
If you de-list someone and then say we may rookie you then you run the risk of that player not getting through to you .... that appears to the be scenario the Tigers are faced with....
I cannot believe I am saying this but I'd take Cousins over a kid at this stage
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We may not even have to make the decison if Port or someone else grabs Cousins. Some caller in Alberton is claiming there's a meeting being hastly arranged over there since they heard Richmond's press conference.
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Port wont take him..
Committed to Josh Carr...
Richmonds decision shouldn't have any worth to Port as they could take him before us regardless of the Polak decision...
Anyone else feel for David Gourdis now?
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surely gourdis hasnt the credentials that would warrant us passing over a Brownlow medalist, 4*B&F premiership player...surelyyyyyyyyyyyyyy :o
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Craig Cameron said he's looking at the long term future..
How long can we be looking to the future?
Craid no1 can predict the future the gamble of Gourdis and Cousins are both in teh boat of "coudl be anything?" Why not go for someone taht wil gaurentee you 100k attendance in Round 1, extra incentive for sponsors and possibly a bucket load of talent that otehr players can learn off..
I just feel sorry for Gourids cause he'll get eaten him up if he isn't a star...
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Q. What is best for the RFC ?
Q. Following a plan/model ?
A. Draft a player who will take No 1 tagger and allow the younger guns to flourish and grow there own game. Realise true potential, without heavy pressure and being shut down whilst still maturing as players, thus not stalling there develop ment. ! Remember what happen to Cotch once the Footy world realised what he was capable of - taken out of the game ! And Foley wasn't allowed to have a year that mirrored 2007. Hard tags for people that aren't used to them are just that, hard to cope with. West Coast had Judd, Kerr and Cousins. You can't take all three out, can you ? This is why they were so successful. We have a fantastic opportunity to do something similar.
A. Wanting to build a steller midfield. How can we do this when the kids are held back ?
What could Lids,Axel,Cotch and yes even Tambling be capable of when not being shadowed.
Remember !
Highly unlikely.
Still a glimmar there, don't shut the door until 11am tomorrow people !
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Essendon to pick David Gourdis???
Gee I feel for this kid..
Get Cousins in for at minimum 1 year to give Richo a chance at competetive Finals Footy!! Thats what its all about!!
We've lost a Senior Player in Polak indefinetly he shoudl be replaced with one in Ben Cousin as simple as that.
HELP US SHEEDS!!
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We may not even have to make the decison if Port or someone else grabs Cousins. Some caller in Alberton is claiming there's a meeting being hastly arranged over there since they heard Richmond's press conference.
Well, Richmond's announcement they probably won't look at Ben has opened up the doors to every other club there now. Where they mightn't have wanted him before, there'll be at least one club who'll see the coverage this has got, the groundswell of support for Ben and run with it.
Got the smell of Mr Incompetence all over it.
What's Free's role down there again?
If we miss out on Ben, should be an interesting AGM
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For those with stuff:
Join Group
"I Support Ben Cousins to Richmond with PS Draft Pick 6"
http://www.stuff.com/group.php?gid=34530014363&ref=mf#/group.php?gid=34530014363&ref=mf
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I would now after all the talks and everything that has gone on, and if he is still there at number 6.
I too can't believe it but I would say take Ben over a kids.
I think the board have worked hard to get Ben to us and I think we will be loyal to that if he is still there.
So klets see if we are loyal to our word to him or loyal to our saying we would stay with the young bloods.
I think in a short term thing Ben is the one for us to get. And I have warmed to the idea of him here now.
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Well we've got Healy first on 3aw saying Richmond can't afford not to pick up Cousins and it'll be a sign of leadership for Cameron to change his mind. Then Walls comes on and says if we pick up Cousins then March loses all credibility after 2 days ago saying we wouldn't.
The media will bash us whichever way we go ::).
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I want what is best for the RFC ....
If you de-list someone and then say we may rookie you then you run the risk of that player not getting through to you .... that appears to the be scenario the Tigers are faced with....
I cannot believe I am saying this but I'd take Cousins over a kid at this stage
Now that I am home from taking the dogs to the Vet for their annual vaccinations I'd like to qualify my comment above.
First up this isn't a slight on Dave Gourdis....
The RFC are duty bound to take the best player available at pick 6...
But if the plan is to take Gourdis in the PSD then I don't know if that qualifies as the best available player - youngster or re-cycled
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I understood what you were on about in the first post that you made.
And I agree with it all. And this is why I think we will take Cousins as number 6.
And why should we worry what other teams think of us.
They will be afraid of us and this is why most are making comments.
Though Free'o might slip him in before we get to him then we will have to rethink.
As Free'o would love to stick it to us as well as the Eagles.
But I don't know if they have to go where they are drafted to. I hope someone can clear that part up for me.
As I think I read it somewhere that they don't have to go if they don't like the team.
So someone please clear this up for me.
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But I don't know if they have to go where they are drafted to. I hope someone can clear that part up for me.
As I think I read it somewhere that they don't have to go if they don't like the team.
So someone please clear this up for me.
They dont have to but they can't play football for another AFL team.
Although since Gourdis is from WA it may be an attractive proposition.
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I personally want us to go for a kid. I dont think one is a bigger risk than the other and Cousin's has had more than enough chances IMHO. If we got the nod from the AFL and it didnt mean chosing one or the other then fine but it didnt happen.
Regardless on which way we go, we are going to get a LOT of media attention tomorrow. If we have anyone loking at being a co major sponsor they should get on board early tomorrow morning.
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Either way, I am reasonably relaxed on the whole matter. Cuz or Gourdis, both are risky. Drafting Cuz doesn't prove that he will work out - if that was the case he'd be at Collingwood, Lions, Saints or even Essendon.
We'd still be waiting at least until the pre season cup or even Round 1. Even then, if we'd seen him at the top of his game, you'd still be wanting 2-3-4 months without the strings going ping before thinking he was on his way.
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I have been traveling for a while and just realized this was a decision we were considering. Didn't we pass with our last selection in the Draft? If our strategy was locked with 'all possibilities' why would we have not used that selection to take either Cousins or Gourdis and then we would have had the choice of either now!! I bet if Sheedy had been involved we would not have left that opportunity slip!! >:(
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I bet if Sheedy had been involved we would not have left that opportunity slip!! >:(
No disrespect but I don't understand your logic here.
What's Sheedy got to do with it?
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Simply that it appears his 'influence' has been too late for ensure all of the options on Draft Day were explored when we decided to pass on our last pick.
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Simply that it appears his 'influence' has been too late for ensure all of the options on Draft Day were explored when we decided to pass on our last pick.
Bottom line is under his current role at the Tigers he isn't supposed to have any "influence" on footy personal matters.
That's not what he is at the club for.... he is an "ambassador" for membership & marketing
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Tell you what though IMO what a waste if we redraft Gourdis, *smile* we just delisted him.
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Isn't it likely that Freo will pick up Gourdis?
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Isn't it likely that Freo will pick up Gourdis?
Who gives a poo?
I cannot beleive he is worth getting if we delisted him 4 weeks ago...
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I have been traveling for a while and just realized this was a decision we were considering. Didn't we pass with our last selection in the Draft? If our strategy was locked with 'all possibilities' why would we have not used that selection to take either Cousins or Gourdis and then we would have had the choice of either now!! I bet if Sheedy had been involved we would not have left that opportunity slip!! >:(
It was the case that we were actually going to pick up Gourdis as a rookie initially last year but we heard other clubs in the PSD were interested in him so we took him with pick 1. Presumably we decided to delist him from the senior list in the hope to pick him up as a rookie today.
As for picking up Gourdis or Cousins in the this year's National draft, you would need to argue we should have cut deeper and delisted more players to end up with more than the 5 picks we started with to grab both. Then again Cousins wasn't on our radar as he was expected to head to St Kilda or Brisbane and Ben himself was sitting back waiting to waltz back into the AFL, and Gourdis was considered as a rookie option. We traded one of those 5 picks away for Thomson leaving 4 picks in the National draft which we intended to all use. We used our first two picks on kids Vickery and Post and then took Hislop at pick 58 as he wasn't expected to be around at 70. We had a list of 5 or 6 kids we rated for one of our two later picks but it turned out they were all gone by pick 70 so we decided to wait until the PSD and access the kids who missed out on the draft altogther at RFC training sessions. The Club has since sat down and assessed these kids, plus Liddle from Coburg and some other ring-ins.
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Isn't it likely that Freo will pick up Gourdis?
Who gives a poo?
I cannot beleive he is worth getting if we delisted him 4 weeks ago...
He was only delisted so we could put him on the rookie list, it was a list management decision because he was a project player
I don't know how many times this needs to be explained
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He was only delisted so we could put him on the rookie list, it was a list management decision because he was a project player
I don't know how many times this needs to be explained
In laymans terminology: 'Project Player' = close your eyes, hold your breath, and pray.
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Isn't it likely that Freo will pick up Gourdis?
Who gives a poo?
I cannot beleive he is worth getting if we delisted him 4 weeks ago...
He was only delisted so we could put him on the rookie list, it was a list management decision because he was a project player
I don't know how many times this needs to be explained
Would never have taken that risk if he was 1/2 decent. Would have keeped him on the list for his 2nd year of AFL. Another club can claim him now, if we valued him so much would not have been delisted. He was rated as one of the 3-4 more expendable players at Richmond. More so, it is rare that players are cut in thier first yearm even wackeds like JON / Jacko etc. get a good 3/4 years. So Gourdis cannot have been, really, all that much chop.
I don't know how much more clear this can be.
If we were happy to get Cousins @ PSD #7 - we should now take him @ #6, if he is still there, and take our chances on picking up a Cournilus (sp?), or other 'project type', in the rookie draft - in which we have many selections.
The potential of Gourdis / Kleme etc. cannot overrride getting the drugo if we were happy to get him, if granted two PSD picks.
We did not have a crack at Aka a couple years ago cause we were still a long way away and needed to go down other path rather than invest in a star thats only got a couple years left but would add major spark. Now we are sposed to be in 5th year and new regime and should be looking to add a marquee to top up, seeing as it has come up. As Aka says - can never have too many gun mids.
If Richmond get Cuz -> :cheers
Good luck if we get a kid. Will be intersting to see how many senior games he plays, and if he stays on the list longer than my boy Andy Collins.
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Ben Cousins still worth risk at No. 6
Mike Sheahan | December 16, 2008
THE AFL Commission has called Richmond's bluff. It's message is clear: you want Ben Cousins, you assume all risks.
The commission has deemed Richmond to be opportunistic in its cheeky bid to park Graham Polak on the rookie list, thereby creating a vacancy for Cousins on the primary list.
It has surprised many observers, including this one, by denying the Richmond request on Polak, leaving the Tigers with only its existing No. 6 selection in today's pre-season draft to claim the fallen West Coast champion.
Particularly when AFL chief executive Andrew Demetriou is known to be keen to see Cousins get another chance. Perhaps Demetriou doesn't always get his way, after all.
So, now it's up to the Tigers.
Do they remain faithful to their oft-declared promise to take a youngster at No. 6 today?
Or do they gamble on one of the great players of the modern era, a 30-year-old champion with a drug problem that many believe remains as significant as it has been for 10 years?
It is a tough call.
Cousins might be the difference between missing the finals and finishing top four.
Then again, he might be no different to the troubled star who ultimately forced West Coast to delist him.
The Cousins camp has performed poorly in recent months. No contrition, no show of faith, no credible bid for public understanding and sympathy.
He has told several clubs he wants another chance, yet he hasn't convinced them he has changed his ways. Or his shady associates.
Now it's down to Richmond president Gary March and coach Terry Wallace.
The strong suspicion is Wallace is driving the push for Cousins, with March mindful of the inevitable backlash among sponsors and supporters that will follow if Cousins falls over.
What we say is this: If the Tigers were prepared to take Cousins with a possible second selection today, they should take him with their solitary pick.
It is ludicrous to suggest any youngster could possibly match the impact of Cousins, on or off the field.
Cousins in the right shape and frame of mind is a top-10 player. Two years ago, you would have been happy to lose the toss in any choice between then teammates Cousins and Chris Judd.
He is a champion. Each of them is. He is capable of lifting the Tigers into premiership contention. His history, though, says he is just as capable of succumbing again to his addiction.
Richmond has a massive dilemma. One unprecedented in the AFL. The rewards are huge; the prospective penalties are both damaging and humiliating.
He isn't, as many commentators would have you believe, a reformed drug addict, he is a drug addict.
What we say is, if the risk was warranted at No. 7, surely it still is warranted at No. 6.
That doesn't make it right, simply logical.
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,24805758-11088,00.html
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Isn't it likely that Freo will pick up Gourdis?
Who gives a poo?
I cannot beleive he is worth getting if we delisted him 4 weeks ago...
He was only delisted so we could put him on the rookie list, it was a list management decision because he was a project player
I don't know how many times this needs to be explained
Would never have taken that risk if he was 1/2 decent. Would have keeped him on the list for his 2nd year of AFL. Another club can claim him now, if we valued him so much would not have been delisted. He was rated as one of the 3-4 more expendable players at Richmond. More so, it is rare that players are cut in thier first yearm even wackeds like JON / Jacko etc. get a good 3/4 years. So Gourdis cannot have been, really, all that much chop.
I don't know how much more clear this can be.
If we were happy to get Cousins @ PSD #7 - we should now take him @ #6, if he is still there, and take our chances on picking up a Cournilus (sp?), or other 'project type', in the rookie draft - in which we have many selections.
The potential of Gourdis / Kleme etc. cannot overrride getting the drugo if we were happy to get him, if granted two PSD picks.
We did not have a crack at Aka a couple years ago cause we were still a long way away and needed to go down other path rather than invest in a star thats only got a couple years left but would add major spark. Now we are sposed to be in 5th year and new regime and should be looking to add a marquee to top up, seeing as it has come up. As Aka says - can never have too many gun mids.
If Richmond get Cuz -> :cheers
Good luck if we get a kid. Will be intersting to see how many senior games he plays, and if he stays on the list longer than my boy Andy Collins.
Gourdis isn't the one we had lined up for pick 6 in the PSD. It was Klemke.
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Have finally formed an opinion on this Cuz business, and have essentially decided to seperate Cuz the footballer from Cuz the recovering drug addict.
Cuz WAS a good footballer in his last full season in 06, however is yet to play AFL of any great length for 2 years. His impact on matchday was minimal (exception 1st game back) prior to suffering the serious hamstring tear. This is the issue for me, does the RFC list need another aging 30y-o running outside midfielder in its rotation ? There is Johnno, Tuck & Cogs as the midfield veterans, so I suspect that Cuz would deny a younger midfielder from the position.
Is this where RFC wants its list heading ? What about the development of the 20 to 23y-o fringe midfielders like Jackson, Polo and even young Dan Connors & Andrew Collins, will they get game time because Cuz is in the 22 ?
If RFC pick Cuz at 6 it does commit the club to play him in more games than the young guys.
That to me is a problem because IMHO Cuz will not play in a grand final for RFC.
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Isn't it likely that Freo will pick up Gourdis?
Who gives a poo?
I cannot beleive he is worth getting if we delisted him 4 weeks ago...
He was only delisted so we could put him on the rookie list, it was a list management decision because he was a project player
I don't know how many times this needs to be explained
Would never have taken that risk if he was 1/2 decent. Would have keeped him on the list for his 2nd year of AFL. Another club can claim him now, if we valued him so much would not have been delisted. He was rated as one of the 3-4 more expendable players at Richmond. More so, it is rare that players are cut in thier first yearm even wackeds like JON / Jacko etc. get a good 3/4 years. So Gourdis cannot have been, really, all that much chop.
I don't know how much more clear this can be.
If we were happy to get Cousins @ PSD #7 - we should now take him @ #6, if he is still there, and take our chances on picking up a Cournilus (sp?), or other 'project type', in the rookie draft - in which we have many selections.
The potential of Gourdis / Kleme etc. cannot overrride getting the drugo if we were happy to get him, if granted two PSD picks.
We did not have a crack at Aka a couple years ago cause we were still a long way away and needed to go down other path rather than invest in a star thats only got a couple years left but would add major spark. Now we are sposed to be in 5th year and new regime and should be looking to add a marquee to top up, seeing as it has come up. As Aka says - can never have too many gun mids.
If Richmond get Cuz -> :cheers
Good luck if we get a kid. Will be intersting to see how many senior games he plays, and if he stays on the list longer than my boy Andy Collins.
Gourdis isn't the one we had lined up for pick 6 in the PSD. It was Klemke.
that makes sense.
why would we be considering drafting a player we delisted a month ago.
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I just hope these supporters who want Cousins so desperately don't turn on him if he doesn't produce like he did as an Eagle. Even returning as a decent footballer who adds to our midfield depth would be a successful comeback for any 30-31 year old.
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I'm beginning to think a reasonable outcome will be for one of the other 5 clubs to pick up Ben before pick 6.
:cheers