One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: one-eyed on April 15, 2009, 02:20:54 AM
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Tigers' picks no match for Dogs
Mike Sheahan | April 14, 2009 09:25pm
SURELY it is time for all of us to move on from the 2004 national draft and the decisions then that continue to haunt Richmond.
The Tigers have paid dearly for choosing Brett Deledio, Richard Tambling, Danny Meyer, Adam Pattison and Dean Polo with their once-in-a-generation hand of five picks in the top 20.
Terry Wallace was installed as coach several months before that draft and untried youngsters generally are the province of the recruiting staff.
What has happened since under the heading of "list management" is more instructive of the Wallace reign.
The Western Bulldogs would seem the fairest comparison, given these clubs have just played each other, given they finished in the bottom three in 2004 (separated by Hawthorn).
The Doggies have fared much better in the field (untried talent) and in trading.
From Monday's teams: Addison, Akermanis, Higgins, Hill, Hudson, Picken and Ward versus Edwards, Foley, Graham, Morton, Rance, Riewoldt and White.
Richmond's most exciting youngster, Trent Cotchin, an emerging star of the competition, was not playing because of injury, but nor was likely Bulldog Andrejs Everitt.
Foley is Richmond's big recruiting winner, an elevation from the rookie list in 2005.
Yet the Bulldogs can counter with Dale Morris, also a rookie elevation that year.
The problem for the Tigers is the period 2005-07 when the Bulldogs were far more astute.
Shaun Higgins, best afield on Monday, was taken at No. 11; Jarrad Oakley-Nicholls (No. 8) remains missing in action.
The Tigers gave up a top-10 choice for Graham Polak in 2006. Polak's career has been disrupted by off-field events, yet he wasn't a front-liner.
The Bulldogs secured Jason Akermanis for a second-round pick that year, and Aker's still a matchwinner.
Perhaps the most damning of the lot is the 2007 exchange, when Richmond gave away pick 19 for Jordan McMahon.
The Bulldogs used that pick on Callan Ward; seven years younger than McMahon, and bigger, stronger and harder at the ball.
He will be in and out of the team this year, yet he is an outstanding prospect.
Richmond has not chosen wisely, nor has it polished its young talent.
None of its youngsters has grown like Higgins. Like Hill, a massive bargain at No. 61.
The Tigers collectively suffer a mixture of poor decision-making and sloppy execution of basic skills.
The modern game penalises teams severely for kicking errors in defence, yet Chris Newman is the only reliable kick in the Richmond backline.
Wallace said on Monday night that he had to try to find a cohesive mix of blue-collar workers and superior users of the ball.
Teams capable of challenging for a premiership have plenty of both.
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,26576,25335731-19742,00.html
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Gee OE, you could have left the bit about Jordy out, the i hate Jordy stuff has only just started to quieten down :lol
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Its a completely fair article. Sometimes the truth hurts. The members supported the CAsey Miller ticket now there paying. Unfortunately members like me who didnt support that farce have to pay the price as well. :banghead
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Its a completely fair article. Sometimes the truth hurts. The members supported the CAsey Miller ticket now there paying. Unfortunately members like me who didnt support that farce have to pay the price as well. :banghead
;D
Ok unlike so many at Tigerland I will put up my hand take responsibility and say "yep it's my fault too" :thumbsup
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read it and weap all you Mcmahon lovers out there.
Remember when he was drafted so many of you so called experts were praising the choice of Jordy.
NOW I WONDER WHAT YOU ARE ALL THINKING NOW?? SMOKEY SO QUIET THESE DAYS? :shh
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read it and weap all you Mcmahon lovers out there.
Remember when he was drafted so many of you so called experts were praising the choice of Jordy.
NOW I WONDER WHAT YOU ARE ALL THINKING NOW?? SMOKEY SO QUIET THESE DAYS? :shh
You insignificant little twerp. Nothing has changed in my opinion of that decision. It was made for the right reasons - he fitted/filled our needs and balanced against the risk of taking an untried youngster in the draft, the risk was deemed acceptable - I'm extremely comfortable with that. So the Bulldogs picked a good one - big deal, build a bridge and get over it, you and all your hindsight-intelligent mates who spend their whole sad, sordid life hounding internet forums with their incessant whinging, ranting and "I told you so's". Be courageous for once in your pathetic life - support something, be positive, accept an error of judgement. Collecting another pile of chicken excreta are you?
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stuff we must sell papers
we have lost 2 out of 3 games to the 2 best teams in the comp atm. and the whole world is caving in
lets wait til half way through the season and then make informed decisions rather than knee jerk ones . i really hope we win the next 10 straight just to stick up all the journos arses
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To say that Polak cost us a 1st round pick is rubbish. We downgraded a few spots in the draft and still got our target in Riewoldt. Polak was super value as he was FREE. Sadly, it hasn't worked out that way.
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read it and weap all you Mcmahon lovers out there.
Remember when he was drafted so many of you so called experts were praising the choice of Jordy.
NOW I WONDER WHAT YOU ARE ALL THINKING NOW?? SMOKEY SO QUIET THESE DAYS? :shh
If I remember correctly, most were against the trade so I don't know what you are being so smug about. Oh I forgot, that's just how you are all the time.
I read this article in the paper while I was down getting some food this morning and they had a comparison of the draft picks the two clubs have made in the last 3 years. Maybe I'm biased, but I thought the comparisons were pretty even or even Richmond in front. We've certainly taken more players.
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read it and weap all you Mcmahon lovers out there.
Remember when he was drafted so many of you so called experts were praising the choice of Jordy.
NOW I WONDER WHAT YOU ARE ALL THINKING NOW?? SMOKEY SO QUIET THESE DAYS? :shh
You insignificant little twerp. Nothing has changed in my opinion of that decision. It was made for the right reasons - he fitted/filled our needs and balanced against the risk of taking an untried youngster in the draft, the risk was deemed acceptable - I'm extremely comfortable with that. So the Bulldogs picked a good one - big deal, build a bridge and get over it, you and all your hindsight-intelligent mates who spend their whole sad, sordid life hounding internet forums with their incessant whinging, ranting and "I told you so's". Be courageous for once in your pathetic life - support something, be positive, accept an error of judgement. Collecting another pile of chicken excreta are you?
this is one of many decisions that send this club backwards
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Another way to look at is is this...we gave 2 picks...19 and 35 and got Morton and McMahon...dont allocate 19 to Mcmahon...
If we gave pick 19 for Morton and 35 for McMahon...most people would say that was a fair trade...Morton has clearly been better value than pick 35...and McMahon is lower than pick 19 ...and around pick 35...
Crikey we gave pick 42 last year for Thomo...McMahon is ahead of him in the playing stakes...
I dont have a problem with Sanchez...as his kicking skills are far better than some others in our backline...just needs to work on defensive side to his game...which I understand he did last week at Coburg...
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read it and weap all you Mcmahon lovers out there.
Remember when he was drafted so many of you so called experts were praising the choice of Jordy.
NOW I WONDER WHAT YOU ARE ALL THINKING NOW?? SMOKEY SO QUIET THESE DAYS? :shh
You insignificant little twerp. Nothing has changed in my opinion of that decision. It was made for the right reasons - he fitted/filled our needs and balanced against the risk of taking an untried youngster in the draft, the risk was deemed acceptable - I'm extremely comfortable with that. So the Bulldogs picked a good one - big deal, build a bridge and get over it, you and all your hindsight-intelligent mates who spend their whole sad, sordid life hounding internet forums with their incessant whinging, ranting and "I told you so's". Be courageous for once in your pathetic life - support something, be positive, accept an error of judgement. Collecting another pile of chicken excreta are you?
Its people like you that run this club and have got absolutely no clue how to run a footy department.
Trading away draft picks for duds, not spending that money of developing juniors.
People like you that are almost happy to concede away picks to plug so called holes.
The same fools who kept Schulz, Jon and Tambling till they are worthless on the open market.
The same people who accept finishing 9th is better than starting from the bottom.
the same people who think our skills have fared better under Wallace than Spud.
give me a break and open your eyes you imbecile.
WE HAVE GONE BACKWARDS UNDER WALLACE!!!! IN TERMS OF DEVELOPMENT AND ON OUR LADDER POSITION!! FACTS DONT LIE
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Its people like you that run this club and have got absolutely no clue how to run a footy department.
Trading away draft picks for duds, not spending that money of developing juniors.
People like you that are almost happy to concede away picks to plug so called holes.
The same fools who kept Schulz, Jon and Tambling till they are worthless on the open market.
The same people who accept finishing 9th is better than starting from the bottom.
the same people who think our skills have fared better under Wallace than Spud.
give me a break and open your eyes you imbecile.
WE HAVE GONE BACKWARDS UNDER WALLACE!!!! IN TERMS OF DEVELOPMENT AND ON OUR LADDER POSITION!! FACTS DONT LIE
God you are boring.
:sleep :sleep :sleep
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I thought this thread was about our picks...and comparing them to the Doggies...??
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Its people like you that run this club and have got absolutely no clue how to run a footy department.
It's people like me that support this club and not bag it mercilessly when things don't go my way.
It's people like me that will continue to support this club unconditionally.
It's people like me that helped make this club what it was, what it is, and what it will be.
It's people like me that inherited the passion for the club and have passed it down to children and grandchildren.
It's people like you who aren't any of the above and just make me sick.
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Its people like you that run this club and have got absolutely no clue how to run a footy department.
It's people like me that support this club and not bag it mercilessly when things don't go my way.
It's people like me that will continue to support this club unconditionally.
It's people like me that helped make this club what it was, what it is, and what it will be.
It's people like me that inherited the passion for the club and have passed it down to children and grandchildren.
It's people like you who aren't any of the above and just make me sick.
you little beauty thats what i like, a little bit of banter.
what we have inherited collectively as a group is a basket case of a club who has shown no heart for 24 of the last 26 years.
who pays for it? we do. enough is enough we dont deserve this crap that gets dished up and maybe you have seen success in your time so thats why you are blinded but i am not.
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While our recruiting has been terrible, it's fair to say we haven't had much luck either.
Brown breaks his leg, Newman breaks his leg, Polak gets hit by a tram, Coughlan does his knee twice (once in the shower), and I recall being absolutely delighted when we picked up Deledio AND Tambling in the 2004 draft. Sure, other teams get injuries, but these have been pretty bad and very unlucky.
Still, no excuses for Mark Graham, Kent Kingsley, Knobel, Oakley-Nicholls etc etc.
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Time out folks and back to the topic
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Still, no excuses for Mark Graham, Kent Kingsley, Knobel, Oakley-Nicholls etc etc.
Mark Graham helped Thursty with defensive work to no end...In an article last year Thursty said he still speaks to Graham about defence. So there was benefit there...plus Graham cost the club next to nothing....
Kingsley...again cost the club next to nothing - a psd-...experiment that failed...so what..
Knob...again cost the club next to nothing - a psd- ... Ottens had just walked out of the club...Simmo had just been recruited but hadnt played yet..and the rest of our ruck stocks (aside from Staff who was aging) looked thin...
JON - still a young kid ...maybe he will make it..maybe he wont...but so what...other clubs also make mistakes with high draft picks...Faren Ray was #4 for the bullies...and is now gorn from their team...Chris Egan was #10 in the 04 draft - just before Thomo Meyers Patto...and gorn. Go ask a Pies supporter about Danny Roach...see what joy that gives them...look him up...here is a hint #7 1999 draft....and the pies could have had Pavlich if they didnt trade with us...remember pick 3 on Fiora originally came from the pies....so what about JON...he is young and may still make it....just go look at Leon Davis...as an example...
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The "cost us nothing" line doesn't wash with me. They cost us the chance to take a young player that might be in the side right now, or put more games into youngsters that are still floundering on our list. If you add all of those "costs" up over the last 5 or so years, it adds up to a lot...
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The "cost us nothing" line doesn't wash with me. They cost us the chance to take a young player that might be in the side right now, or put more games into youngsters that are still floundering on our list. If you add all of those "costs" up over the last 5 or so years, it adds up to a lot...
Depends what type of chance you are talking about and what you are comparing it to, a one in a hundred/thousand? chance of a player that low in the draft stakes compared to the benefit of having your raw and young talent gain valuble coaching from experienced campaigners may be a good trade off.
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I don't think we should base recruitment strategy around getting old campaigners who might pass on some valuable lessons. That's what coaches and the phalanx of assistant coaches and player development people are for.
Our recent drafting is littered with examples of taking older discards who have offered us very little, and who have then taken the place on the field and on the list of a young player that may (yes, may) have developed into a valuable player.
Did Hawthorn top up their ground zero list with old players? No. The only player of similar ilk they took was Dew, much later when they saw a gap emerging from the initial rebuild.
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I don't think we should base recruitment strategy around getting old campaigners who might pass on some valuable lessons. That's what coaches and the phalanx of assistant coaches and player development people are for.
Our recent drafting is littered with examples of taking older discards who have offered us very little, and who have then taken the place on the field and on the list of a young player that may (yes, may) have developed into a valuable player.
Did Hawthorn top up their ground zero list with old players? No. The only player of similar ilk they took was Dew, much later when they saw a gap emerging from the initial rebuild.
:clapping :bow
problem is mate you wont win an argument on here with those comments.
People dont see our recruiting as the problem whereas i see it as the major problem with our club.
ooh yeah and you can add Patty Bowden to that list.
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Did Hawthorn top up their ground zero list with old players? No.
No they didnt but name a player that they drafted at a simlar draft pick for what we gave up for Knob, Cant or Graham that is carving it up for them now.
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Did Hawthorn top up their ground zero list with old players? No.
No they didnt but name a player that they drafted at a simlar draft pick for what we gave up for Knob, Cant or Graham that is carving it up for them now.
Patrick Bowden- 56 pick
Knobel-pre season draft pick 1
Gilham-Rookie Draft, deep pick
Dew
Simon Taylor not killing it by any means but a solid second ruckman to have
from other clubs......
Matthew Egan
Daniel Pratt who was drafted after Graham. Geez how good would he be in our team right now instead we have toothpicks running around witches hats
Regarding Kinsley what a waste that was. Wallace again misinterpreted the list and thought by recruiting Kingsley it would be the final ingredient needed to get us into the 8. How wrong he was??
There are probably some others we could have drafted but why bother the point has been made.
YOU SHOULD NEVER TRADE AWAY DRAFT PICKS WHEN YOU ARE IN A REBUILDING PHASE AS WE ARE/WERE.
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Think d161 has answered the question, but there are others we could have taken a stab at, eg Eddie Betts.
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I don't think we should base recruitment strategy around getting old campaigners who might pass on some valuable lessons. That's what coaches and the phalanx of assistant coaches and player development people are for.
Our recent drafting is littered with examples of taking older discards who have offered us very little, and who have then taken the place on the field and on the list of a young player that may (yes, may) have developed into a valuable player.
Did Hawthorn top up their ground zero list with old players? No. The only player of similar ilk they took was Dew, much later when they saw a gap emerging from the initial rebuild.
Ummm...sorry but that is not right. Hawthorn have consistently picked up an "older" player for a number of years now...perhaps the 2008 draft was the exception for them.
Go read this link: http://www.afl.com.au/News/NEWSARTICLE/tabid/208/Default.aspx?newsId=68273 as to how the Hawks built their list.
In fact 11 of their Grand Final side came pre the 2004 draft.
In 2002 they recruited P. Everitt who cost them picks 6 and 22. Kinglsey Hunter cost them pick 35. They traded D. Chick to West Coast for pick 8 and got Luke Brennan who was gone by the end of the 2006 season from Hawthorn.
In 2003 they traded for Simon Beaumont from Carlton...he lasted 2 years and retired after 27 games...He had played 152 games with Carlton beforehand. They also traded for D. Jacobs from Essendon. He is also retired. They drafted Harry Miller. He was delisted after 2 years.
In 2004 - the infamous draft - Bo Nixon was drafted by them from the Pies plus pick 7 for pick 10 and 37.
In 2005 they picked up B. Guerra in the psd.
In 2006 they re-drafted Josh Thurgood - now delisted.
In 2007 S. Dew.
And like us they have had their misses at the draft table too....ex. 2004 T. Murphy pick 21, 2005 B. Dowler pick 6 , M. Bailey pick 18 B. Muston at pick 22, 2006 M. Thorp pick 6 and G. Moss 56 (re-rookied and only played 3 games - 2 this year only because of all their injuries).
So Hawthorn didnt build from the ground up as you say...sure they picked up some talented kids...and the 2001 draft was bountiful for them - 4 premiership players in one draft. But each year they tried to add an older player...not dissimilar to the Tigers...and like the Tigers they too have had their misses...
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granted, our drafting has been poor. but i mean, having a look at what he dished up about bulldogs recruiting, it doesn't impress all that much IMO.
1. fails to mention what a waste andrew mcdougall was for pick 29.
2. dismissed cotchin by mentioning andrejs everitt in that they're both injured at the moment. i mean, c'mon!!!
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Mark Graham helped Thursty with defensive work to no end...In an article last year Thursty said he still speaks to Graham about defence. So there was benefit there...plus Graham cost the club next to nothing....
Kingsley...again cost the club next to nothing - a psd-...experiment that failed...so what..
No he said Gaspar was his mentor and still works with him.
Kent was a great mentor at Coburg.
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No he said Gaspar was his mentor and still works with him.
Must be long distance mentoring - Gas is well and truly ensconced back in Perth.
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Mark Graham helped Thursty with defensive work to no end...In an article last year Thursty said he still speaks to Graham about defence. So there was benefit there...plus Graham cost the club next to nothing....
Kingsley...again cost the club next to nothing - a psd-...experiment that failed...so what..
No he said Gaspar was his mentor and still works with him.
Kent was a great mentor at Coburg.
Graham was also a mentor and also protected our young kpps from being thrown to the wolves by having some bigger bodies to play there. Of all the recycled players we've taken from the draft in Wallace's tenure, Graham would be probably the least one I have a problem with. He was a good player for us and helped us develop our kids. He was gone a year later and a new kid took his spot, so only 12 months delay on getting a kid into the side.
The 2004 draft was pretty much a bust outside of the first 5 picks anyway.
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Yep Mark Graham was a good choice.
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Apolgies, Thursfield said this about Gas and Mark Graham:
”Definitely Darren Gaspar when he was here a huge influence, we got on really well and he taught me everything,” Thursfield said.
“He’d be the one I’ve learned the most of, and I still keep in touch with him.”
“Another one in my first year was Mark Graham, who came over from Hawthorn. He was only there for one year, but he taught me a hell of a lot, and it’s those two who I’ve mainly tried to play like.”
See: http://www.richmondfc.com.au/News/NewsArticle/TabId/6301/default.aspx?newsId=57638
Definately no loss in Mark Graham coming to the club.
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Ummm...sorry but that is not right. Hawthorn have consistently picked up an "older" player for a number of years now...perhaps the 2008 draft was the exception for them.
In 2002 they recruited P. Everitt who cost them picks 6 and 22. Kinglsey Hunter cost them pick 35. They traded D. Chick to West Coast for pick 8 and got Luke Brennan who was gone by the end of the 2006 season from Hawthorn.
In 2003 they traded for Simon Beaumont from Carlton...he lasted 2 years and retired after 27 games...He had played 152 games with Carlton beforehand. They also traded for D. Jacobs from Essendon. He is also retired. They drafted Harry Miller. He was delisted after 2 years.
In 2004 - the infamous draft - Bo Nixon was drafted by them from the Pies plus pick 7 for pick 10 and 37.
In 2005 they picked up B. Guerra in the psd.
In 2006 they re-drafted Josh Thurgood - now delisted.
In 2007 S. Dew.
And like us they have had their misses at the draft table too....ex. 2004 T. Murphy pick 21, 2005 B. Dowler pick 6 , M. Bailey pick 18 B. Muston at pick 22, 2006 M. Thorp pick 6 and G. Moss 56 (re-rookied and only played 3 games - 2 this year only because of all their injuries).
So Hawthorn didnt build from the ground up as you say...sure they picked up some talented kids...and the 2001 draft was bountiful for them - 4 premiership players in one draft. But each year they tried to add an older player...not dissimilar to the Tigers...and like the Tigers they too have had their misses...
Hang on...
Guerra was 23 when they picked him — hardly in the Graham, Kingsley, Cousins category. Ridiculous to mention him.
Even Dew was only 27.
Even more ridiculous to go back to 2002. I'm sure you wouldn't want me to go back that far for Richmond's recruiting...your "argument" is only weakened by going back that far. It was all of that bad trading and recruiting that Clarkson and Pelchen reacted against when building their young list. And we didn't learn a thing from Hawthorn's actions.
And last time I looked, Murphy is one of their key defenders, and Moss is in the side! Where are Graham, Kingsley, Knobel etc etc? Once again - mentioning Murphy and Moss only strengthens my argument — they are still there and possibly going on to good careers, while we are dropping McMahon, and the others have gone.
This warped argument that getting a Mark Graham or a Kingsley for one year to mentor youngsters is just silly. It is a side benefit of bad recruiting, not the reason you recruit him. If he was so good as a defensive coach, then hire him in that capacity, but don't have him taking up a spot on our precious list just for that.
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Guerra was 23 when they picked him — hardly in the Graham, Kingsley, Cousins category. Ridiculous to mention him.
Even Dew was only 27.
People mention McMahon, so Guerra is fair game
Dew turns 30 this season
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Hang on...
Guerra was 23 when they picked him — hardly in the Graham, Kingsley, Cousins category. Ridiculous to mention him.
Even Dew was only 27.
Even more ridiculous to go back to 2002. I'm sure you wouldn't want me to go back that far for Richmond's recruiting...your "argument" is only weakened by going back that far. It was all of that bad trading and recruiting that Clarkson and Pelchen reacted against when building their young list. And we didn't learn a thing from Hawthorn's actions.
And last time I looked, Murphy is one of their key defenders, and Moss is in the side! Where are Graham, Kingsley, Knobel etc etc? Once again - mentioning Murphy and Moss only strengthens my argument — they are still there and possibly going on to good careers, while we are dropping McMahon, and the others have gone.
This warped argument that getting a Mark Graham or a Kingsley for one year to mentor youngsters is just silly. It is a side benefit of bad recruiting, not the reason you recruit him. If he was so good as a defensive coach, then hire him in that capacity, but don't have him taking up a spot on our precious list just for that.
If people raise Patrick Bowden/McMahon (as Infamy has already said) then Brent Guerra is in the same boat....
Graham Kingsley Knob are playing with Everitt Bo Nixon Josh Thurgood Beaumont...
Why is it ridiculous to go back to 2002....? Because you say so? You started this debate by saying:
"Did Hawthorn top up their ground zero list with old players? No. The only player of similar ilk they took was Dew, much later when they saw a gap emerging from the initial rebuild."
When in truth they did. Pelchen was not at the 2004 draft when they traded for Nixon...he joined the following year...2004 was Buckenara...Hawthorn's original rebuild was back in 2001....they picked up 4 players that draft to go with a couple the year before...and topped up most years since...
They then went back to rebuild in 2004 and again the following year...
Hawthorn also had more senior players with currency than us...and accordingly were able to trade them for better picks...eg Hay
As for Murphy and Moss...well Murphy has only played 33 games in over 4 years...and cant be that much of a key defender (I note he didnt make the GF team)..Moss has only played 3 games...2 this year...when Hawks have been riddled with injuries...
The reality is that every team 'tops' up with older players at some point...You could argue that Hislop and Thomo are 'top ups'- they add to our depth.
What we gave for the ones we picked in earlier years was not much...last spots on list...
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I'm saying it is silly to go back to 2002 and point out Hawthorn's mistakes and use that as justification for our mistakes, made 2 or 3 years later.
Clearly Guerra is not in the same boat as P Bowden...because he is still on Hawthorn's list. Surely you can't be arguing that getting Patrick was good recruiting? If you want to go back as far as 2002, why not throw in Blumfield, Fleming, Nicholls, Morrison, Fletcher, Marsh, Weller....it really isn't strenghthening your argument that we are doing the same as most sides...
Look, when we were clearly in need of a total rebuild, Wallace and his team (primarily Miller) made fundamental recruiting mistakes in his first two years. Some of those mistakes included drafting and trading for old players with little to offer. Other mistakes were made in the actual selection of personnel (eg JON, Tambling, Meyer, Pattison, probably Polo, probably others). Personally, I think it is difficult to argue with that.
In short, I reckon we are actually only 3 years into Wallace's 5 year stint, because he largely wasted 2 years at the start. I've also said that we have had some incredibly bad luck — Brown' leg, Polak's tram, Cogs etc.
All these factors have added up to another mediocre team at the moment. Just my opinion.
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Bo Nixon was the other way around wasn't it. The Hawks gained pick 7 (Lewis) by trading Nixon and pick 10 (Egan) to the Pies.
Anyway I find it ironic that the Bulldogs are used by Mike as a guide to good recruiting when they were the other club who overlooked Franklin despite them crying out for a big key forward for years with everything else in place. In the finals last year they were smashed by the Hawks and lost comfortably (it was 5 goals) to Geelong. It'd be like us claiming to be not far away from the Cats because we got within 20 points.
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MT he was traded by the pies to the hawks...see: http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pc-hawthorn-hawks--bo-nixon
I agree...the Franklin debate has never featured in the media with respect to the Doggies...they seemed charmed that way...If he was with the Doggies they might have won the flag last year...with their midfield kicking it to buddy...who knows...?
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Ah you're right Con. Cheers :).
Just on the weekend you really see the difference in the make up of both sides when looking at when they were drafted and the 23-28 y.o. core. Daylight in terms of quality when comparing the core groups :P. Mind you this doesn't excuse lack of effort :scream.
Half the 44 players were recruited by Wallace out of interest :whistle.
Bulldogs
1993 drafts: Johnson
1999: Eagleton (trade)
2000: Cross, Giansiracusa, Gilbee, Hahn, Hargrave (Murphy was also picked up)
2001: Lake
2002: Minson
2003: Cooney, Boyd (rookie elevation)
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2004: Griffen, Tiller, Williams
2005: Addison, Higgins, Morris (rookie elevation)
2006: Hill, Akermanis (trade)
2007: Ward, Hudson (trade)
32 y.o.: Johnson, Akermanis
30: Eagleton, Hudson
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27: Giansiracusa, Gilbee, Hahn, Hargrave, Lake
26: Boyd, Cross, Morris
24: Minson
23: Cooney
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22: Griffen, Tiller, Williams, Picken
21: Addison, Higgins
20: Hill
19: Ward
Richmond
1992: Richo (F/S)
1995: Bowden (F/S)
2000: Newman
2002: Schulz
2003: Jackson, Tuck, Brown (trade)
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2004: Deledio, Tambling, Polo, McGuane, Moore (rookie elevation), Simmonds (trade)
2005: White, Foley (rookie elevation)
2006: Riewoldt, Edwards
2007: Rance, King (rookie elevation), Graham (rookie elevation), Morton (trade)
2008: Hislop (trade)
34: Richo
31: Brown
30: Bowden, Simmonds
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27: Tuck
26: Newman
25: Moore, King
24: Schulz
23: Foley
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22: Tambling, Jackson, McGuane, Polo, White, Graham, Morton
21: Deledio
20: Edwards, Riewoldt, Hislop
19: Rance