One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: Tigermonk on August 12, 2009, 06:08:25 PM
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Well if Richmond are going the youth policy + changing culture, then its time they pulled the plug on Richo.
His given the club no benefits this year & with a serious injury + at 35 years old next March his a liability to have at the club next year.
His given us very good service but until he is retired the culture at Tigerland will not change & whats a fit decision for Joel Bowden surely must go for others or it bias.
Richo should consider like Joel whats the best option for the football club, Not be selfish going on & possibly re-injuring himself during the year & have a long stint on the sidelines.
The club can no longer keep these types of players who continue to breakdown. Richo has been hit with injuries consistantly over the years.
Rawlings should have no say in his brother-in-laws playing future because it would clearly be a bias decision.
Dont any of you take this any other way by what l'm saying here. We all love the big fella but l see no position for him in the side & his kicking for goal playing at FF is the most unreliable at most times & we need someone who has a straight kicking style.
its peeed me off over the years how this elite footballer Richo, has kicked some of the most unreal goals yet struggles with his crowd anxiety having close set shots.
l really think the club & Richo should make the best decision & if thats to play on next year then he will get our support.
Lets hear everyones opinion & what position can he play would it be a off the bench role & could it work
We do need experience still at the club to help teach the youngsters & this would be the only reason l can see keeping him as others look up to the big man
No-one can denie Richo workrate to give 100% over the years but we are seeing less of him on the ground. This worries me for next season
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You're just bitter your bum chum got pushed out the door
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You're just bitter your bum chum got pushed out the door
Terrible response although that doesnt surprise me.
Monk, interesting times ahead for Richo
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You're just bitter your bum chum got pushed out the door
Terrible response although that doesnt surprise me.
Monk, interesting times ahead for Richo
people saying l'm bitter about Bowden like Imfamy is imature. :banghead
Its more the loyalty part of it to past long serving players that has me agitated. l have seen it so many times its disgraceful & leaves a bad feeling inside me.
l only brought this up Jackstar :thumbsup because l fear we are going into another situation with holding onto injured players & to change the culture as they say they are doing.
Well Richo is part of that old culture & l dont see him being part of the club next season. With his type of injury like Buckleys who was forever troubled & forced to retire.
Where & what role will Richo give us benefit next season. Could hurt other clubs playing him off the bench or is it best to retire him.
Its no good retiring players after a few games into the season like was done with Gasper, Bowden, Knights, Rogers, Kellaways, if they cant complete the season or have doubts then retire them before they get below the standard so to keep the club always strong & standard high
This is where RFC have fallen down badly by keeping players on over many years & got no onfield value from them.
A football team playing at the highest level shouldnot have any weak links & your whole list should be up that standard.
Like Tim Watson running on the ground at 15 years old & establised himself without any problems. it was common to have young kids in senior sides. Todays kids are men with men bodies, They donot need baby sitting when they come to the club as they have all played senior football. TAC you can say is senior football, there young men
My son is being blooded as a CHF/CHB running player who covers the whole ground when playing.
When he stands next to some Richmond players which they know how old he is, He is close to the same size as them & his 14y-6mth. & more muscle than McMuffin ;D
Most of the older tigers have known him since he was a baby. Richo nearly dropped him out of his arms & caught him before he splattered at a Milo Top10 Grand Final breakfast :lol so long ago
Anyway at his height & build at present he could clearly play seniors at his age, so what l'm saying when these TAC kids come into AFL they are professional trained men with the same training a AFL player do.
They are coached to play AFL as the ultimate goal. They dont need babysitting like at Richmond. They can be chucked straight into the action.
Why does RFC always take along time to blood draftees. ???
Back to Richo we do love the big fella & this is not bias because Bowden is going its clearly decussing about our club we all support.
So Richo if fit & plays at least 17 games, l would say thats a successful year for the big fella. He wont play every game being realistic about this because of his size & age.
This bloke should be carried out the door when he retires because you wont see another player like him for a very long time. His a stuff athlete.
If he does play that 17 games & produces at least 60 goals or more from FF then l would say l got it wrong. If its a off the bench role than 35-40 goals would be a fair target.
Now Ol Smokey & myself had a decussion going about Mark Coughlan & l have not asked him lately his view on where Cogs is at :thumbsup or his future so Smokey the ball is in your court. Lets us know. My opinion is Cogs, Pettifer & JON for Sandilands clean swap :rollin
This thread is not just about Richo. its about changing the culture & playing the kids.
l beleive we need a coach like Gary Ayres type to get the younger players up to a AFL standard. Anyone who gets a small body player in Nahas up to league level & plays like its his last game, great tackles, kicking goals, & acheiving the required tasks set, Then thats the type of coach l want for the young players.
Port Melbourne has always been hard to beat under Gary Ayres & he has coached Geelong & Adelaide in AFL Grand Finals however losing. Just my opinion about getting the younger players started in another rebuild thats taking 3 decades well not really lets base it from 2001 finals series.
Port melbourne beat us with some of our top 22 playing at Coburg which shocks me at time.
Sometimes Coburg has a list of Richmond players that you swear is unbeatable yet they cannot get close to teams like a under-manned Casey Scorpions twice this year.
That itself is sounding a major problem at the club.
So the first thing l would do is clean out the players who have been consistantly injured like Coughlan, Pettifer, Richo, Simmonds, Brown & Bowden, Johnson have retired so thats 7 changes made already.
Then under a new coach give him the whole remaining list & go back to basic skills & develope them all over the summer & donot play them any lower than Coburg seniors.
At Coburg when we play games that require a limit of listed players then rest all injured players & play the list completely through & this will help development.
Forget about Coburg reserves as the level is too low l believe for listed players to be playing in
This is just my opinion where l think the club has gone wrong in one area, the others being medical staff shocking decisions & player development with body strengthening.
not everyone will agree & l dont expect that. l just want to see what some peoples views are. How they would go about fixing the club & not slag each other off cause its getting boring.
Fire Away :thumbsup
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So Richo if fit & plays at least 17 games, l would say thats a successful year for the big fella. He wont play every game being realistic about this because of his size & age.
This bloke should be carried out the door when he retires because you wont see another player like him for a very long time. His a stuff athlete.
If he does play that 17 games & produces at least 60 goals or more from FF then l would say l got it wrong. If its a off the bench role than 35-40 goals would be a fair target.
You have said it right here TM, the guy is a stuff. A stuff who can win games off his own boot if he is firing, and over his career he has fired off quiet a few times.
I don't put him in the category of other older players because a bit like Cuz I consider him a unique footballer. For that reason I think he should play next year.
Why does RFC always take along time to blood draftees. ???
This thread is not just about Richo. its about changing the culture & playing the kids.
I agree we would appear to take to long to blood our draftees and one of the main reasons I believe for this is older encumbant players dominating a poorly performing side. I think the scare factor involved with removing a few encumbant players and blooding draftees that will not perform right away has been too much for some coaches. Our supporters, the media, coterie groups tend to go a bit feral after a couple of bad games believe it or not.
Anyway one positive I seen this year was the blooding of Vickery and Post, at least these guys got blooded early.
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Is Imfamy meant to be an insult? Its not even a word
You've used it repeatedly but it doesn't even make sense
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Is Imfamy meant to be an insult? Its not even a word
You've used it repeatedly but it doesn't even make sense
no its not a insult
l explained myself clearly when you said l was bitter about Bowden
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Then why use it? Do you have a speach impediment?
You certainly seemed to want to draw attention to it
As for your explanation, I didn't bother reading past the first 3 lines, too much dribble
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Anyway one positive I seen this year was the blooding of Vickery and Post, at least these guys got blooded early.
Vickery should have been included in the side when Richo injured himself the week before the Sydney game
He would have been a huge bonus & given plenty that day a game we should have won.
With Richo being selfish & the medical staff making a very bad decision that cost Richo & the club the rest of the season was no benefit.
Losing a tall player like Richo early in the game hurt us & thats exactly what l'm trying to point out.
Richo was selfish that day going in at under 50% fit & its these players making these decisions which is holding up the progress, We could have seen Vickery sooner.
His cemented his place & will be a huge difference next season with more bulk, Will be exciting to watch :thumbsup
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Then why use it? Do you have a speach impediment?
You certainly seemed to want to draw attention to it
As for your explanation, I didn't bother reading past the first 3 lines, too much dribble
then effoff efftard
not my fault you cant read past the first line :rollin
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AFL clubs should be finishing schools not development schools for the recruits coming from TAC Cup WAFL and SANFL. Thats why other clubs get success and we havent. That means 1 of 2 things are happening.
1) We recruit badly - skills, ability, awareness, speed, physical size, psychology and attitude of players- have we done this properly with every single player whose been drafted
2) Our finishing school as an AFL has sucked- that means our development hasnt been good, our senior coaches havent done this properly, and our assistants havent done a good job.
Dont know if people agree- id be interested in peoples thoughts
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Well if Richmond are going the youth policy + changing culture, then its time they pulled the plug on Richo.
His given the club no benefits this year & with a serious injury + at 35 years old next March his a liability to have at the club next year.
His given us very good service but until he is retired the culture at Tigerland will not change & whats a fit decision for Joel Bowden surely must go for others or it bias.
Richo should consider like Joel whats the best option for the football club, Not be selfish going on & possibly re-injuring himself during the year & have a long stint on the sidelines.
The club can no longer keep these types of players who continue to breakdown. Richo has been hit with injuries consistantly over the years.
Rawlings should have no say in his brother-in-laws playing future because it would clearly be a bias decision.
Dont any of you take this any other way by what l'm saying here. We all love the big fella but l see no position for him in the side & his kicking for goal playing at FF is the most unreliable at most times & we need someone who has a straight kicking style.
its peeed me off over the years how this elite footballer Richo, has kicked some of the most unreal goals yet struggles with his crowd anxiety having close set shots.
l really think the club & Richo should make the best decision & if thats to play on next year then he will get our support.
Lets hear everyones opinion & what position can he play would it be a off the bench role & could it work
We do need experience still at the club to help teach the youngsters & this would be the only reason l can see keeping him as others look up to the big man
No-one can denie Richo workrate to give 100% over the years but we are seeing less of him on the ground. This worries me for next season
IMHO these reasons should be enough to keep him there, he is an enigma and i dont think his bad points outweigh his good. He doesnt cost much, could play off the bench and doesnt take up much space. More importantly, he knows he's not bigger than the game or the club and will do the right thing when the time comes :bow
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AFL clubs should be finishing schools not development schools for the recruits coming from TAC Cup WAFL and SANFL. Thats why other clubs get success and we havent. That means 1 of 2 things are happening.
1) We recruit badly - skills, ability, awareness, speed, physical size, psychology and attitude of players- have we done this properly with every single player whose been drafted
2) Our finishing school as an AFL has sucked- that means our development hasnt been good, our senior coaches havent done this properly, and our assistants havent done a good job.
Dont know if people agree- id be interested in peoples thoughts
thats a top post Ramps. Yes why the need to develope them when they already know how to play football, They all get pushed to sickness as thats the way they know who will make it. They go to training camps, AIS training camp, They go to seminars & lectured by the likes of Alves, Barrassi, & many other high profile people & even get lectured by Police at seminars ;D.
They are on specials diets & monitored by TAC with everything its like breeding a race horse & instead of sending it to Flemington it goes to the MCG :rollin
They do the AFL training camp & trials before being drafted so clubs know what they are purchasing when it comes draft day.
Ryan Allen playing for Coburg seniors. He played FF for Morwell Tigers the last few seasons & is a strong marking goalkicker with a good straight kick.
Hughes on our Richmond list was playing Coburg reserves like some other players on our list yet l know for a fact we will never draft Ryan Allen.
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"Anyway at his height & build at present he could clearly play seniors at his age, so what l'm saying when these TAC kids come into AFL they are professional trained men with the same training a AFL player do.
They are coached to play AFL as the ultimate goal. They dont need babysitting like at Richmond. They can be chucked straight into the action."
Come on 'Monk, lots of parents have over-inflated ideas of how good their sons are when they are 14 years old.
Just let the kid play and ENJOY his footy and he will develop into the best footballer he can be.
TAC Cup recruiters will evaluate him if he shows that he can develop beyond local footy.
I am sure that most parents that have kids playing at AFL level thought that their kid could be chucked straight in.....until they saw the kid chucked straight in and spat straight out. After a few games at AFL level they come to terms with the pace, the size of the opposition, the skill required and so on. After a few years they become quality players.
When they come back from a stint in the ressies, they all comment about how fast and tough the game at AFL level is.
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"Anyway at his height & build at present he could clearly play seniors at his age, so what l'm saying when these TAC kids come into AFL they are professional trained men with the same training a AFL player do.
They are coached to play AFL as the ultimate goal. They dont need babysitting like at Richmond. They can be chucked straight into the action."
Come on 'Monk, lots of parents have over-inflated ideas of how good their sons are when they are 14 years old.
Just let the kid play and ENJOY his footy and he will develop into the best footballer he can be.
TAC Cup recruiters will evaluate him if he shows that he can develop beyond local footy.
I am sure that most parents that have kids playing at AFL level thought that their kid could be chucked straight in.....until they saw the kid chucked straight in and spat straight out. After a few games at AFL level they come to terms with the pace, the size of the opposition, the skill required and so on. After a few years they become quality players.
When they come back from a stint in the ressies, they all comment about how fast and tough the game at AFL level is.
Dont worry Ekto l let my son controls his own football & where he wants to play
l gladly sit back and watch. His coach has done very well with him the last 2 season & l couldnot ask for anything more. :thumbsup
all first gamers get a shock how hard & fast AFL football is but Richmond donot blood thier players soon enough & they start to get comfy where they are at.
Blooding them early gives them a chance to find out what is required & the level to adjust thier workrate
This also gives the club a look to see if they can cope with it & if not push them back
We all seen far too many players drafted to Richmond & leave after several years
some dont even get a game. They lose interest & dont even try out at another club because they see injured players like Richo, Brown, Moore, Foley taking thier places.
These injured players breakdown before the game but still go out till forced to the pine & that creates a bad feeling among players who thought they would get a go
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Blooding them early gives them a chance to find out what is required & the level to adjust thier workrate
This also gives the club a look to see if they can cope with it & if not push them back
Thats not what you said in your first post.
You told us that the TAC players are ready to jump straight in and that our recruiters have picked the wrong players.
"what l'm saying when these TAC kids come into AFL they are professional trained men with the same training a AFL player do.
They are coached to play AFL as the ultimate goal. They dont need babysitting like at Richmond. They can be chucked straight into the action."
We all seen far too many players drafted to Richmond & leave after several years
some dont even get a game. They lose interest & dont even try out at another club because they see injured players like Richo, Brown, Moore, Foley taking thier places.
How many is far too many? Two or three in the past 10 years?
Most likely not much to do with the club just player attitudes maybe?
These injured players breakdown before the game but still go out till forced to the pine & that creates a bad feeling among players who thought they would get a go
I only remember one player going into a game that looked injured before the start this year.
Some players need injections before and during a game but they are capable of playing.
The players that miss out know why they are not in the side and they would be foolish to make assumptions about other players. They know that they need to work their guts out to earn their spot back at the top level.
AFL football club culture is not at all similar to local football club culture.
Your posts make good reading but they also highlight the fact that supporters, who live and breath for the club know so little about what is actually happening WITHIN a football club....and that includes me too.
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Ok Ekto l will make it simple to understand
Blooding them early gives them a chance to find out what is required & the level to adjust thier workrate
This also gives the club a look to see if they can cope with it & if not push them back
Thats not what you said in your first post.
You told us that the TAC players are ready to jump straight in and that our recruiters have picked the wrong players.
"what l'm saying when these TAC kids come into AFL they are professional trained men with the same training a AFL player do.
They are coached to play AFL as the ultimate goal. They dont need babysitting like at Richmond. They can be chucked straight into the action."
TAC players are ready to play AFL when they come to the club & should fit in just like they do at all other clubs Deledio Tambling did so there is proof.
They have gone backwards since being at Richmond & we seen that by our very own eyes all of us.
When l say blooding them means you stick them in instead of waiting 6 months to a year to find out how they go
We all seen far too many players drafted to Richmond & leave after several years
some dont even get a game. They lose interest & dont even try out at another club because they see injured players like Richo, Brown, Moore, Foley taking thier places.
How many is far too many? Two or three in the past 10 years?
Most likely not much to do with the club just player attitudes maybe?
Ok l must have cut short my post when writing it it was meant to say quote some dont even get a game to proove themselves because the coach dont have the balls to give them a go in a crap team "
These injured players breakdown before the game but still go out till forced to the pine & that creates a bad feeling among players who thought they would get a go
I only remember one player going into a game that looked injured before the start this year.
Some players need injections before and during a game but they are capable of playing.
thats correct some players get several injections throughout the game & some get a load of them & they should not be played because thier injuries get worse during the game & are forced to sit it out on the bench & this is taking the spot of a player who needs the chance to prove himself
Tuck, Moore, Richo, Foley, Deledio, McGuane, Brown, Simmonds, Polo, Graham, just to name some are all guilty of this over the last 2 season ;D
The players that miss out know why they are not in the side and they would be foolish to make assumptions about other players. They know that they need to work their guts out to earn their spot back at the top level.
yes but they do say things & know they have to work harder but when they do work harder they dont get the chance they deserve for working hard cause the injured players who have a name get 1st choice
AFL football club culture is not at all similar to local football club culture.
l know this cause l spent many years around football clubs at all levels in Victoria
Your posts make good reading but they also highlight the fact that supporters, who live and breath for the club know so little about what is actually happening WITHIN a football club....and that includes me too.
that would have the same answer as above from being involved in football so long & knowing many players of most AFL clubs & family within the AFL + current day players & coaches, + umpiring boss is how l get to know what goes on inside clubs but not everytime you get told something does it always turn out to be correct example Sheedy was ready to take over the coaching & has conflict with March well that turned out wrong for us cause Sheeds pulled the plug until March is out just as a example.
Also make many friends when your a Junior Development Officer you get to talk to parents who see you years later & pass on info so what goes around comes around cant say anymore :shh
Hope that clear things up Ekto :thumbsup sometimes l rush my posts cause this computer is on my workbench & its always logged in on this website while l'm working
Thats why l dont bother when people have a crack at my grammer & spelling cause l rushing through :thumbsup
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Now Ol Smokey & myself had a decussion going about Mark Coughlan & l have not asked him lately his view on where Cogs is at :thumbsup or his future so Smokey the ball is in your court. Lets us know. My opinion is Cogs, Pettifer & JON for Sandilands clean swap :rollin
;D
I wondered when we would conclude this one TM!
FWIW I still think that the club did all the right things in sending Cogs for that treatment OS. Once he was re-contracted (I won't debate the smartness of doing that while he was rehabilitating) :-\ then we had to give him every chance of recovery, especially given he was a key player in our list and former best and fairest winner. If it was a list-clogger then maybe a different story but the club had to spend some money to protect and try to recover it's investment in it's key asset. Hindsight tells us he recovered but not to the level we all hoped but at least the club knows now what it must do. We both agreed it would be good if he could recover and I'm sure we both agree it's a damn shame he didn't - we sure could have used his talent around about now.
And also FWIW, I agree with you about developing and conditioning our young players. We have generally been terrible at that for many, many years now and I would hope that our much vaunted review of all things Football Department finds this and brings about significant change.
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Now Ol Smokey & myself had a decussion going about Mark Coughlan & l have not asked him lately his view on where Cogs is at :thumbsup or his future so Smokey the ball is in your court. Lets us know. My opinion is Cogs, Pettifer & JON for Sandilands clean swap :rollin
;D
I wondered when we would conclude this one TM!
FWIW I still think that the club did all the right things in sending Cogs for that treatment OS. Once he was re-contracted (I won't debate the smartness of doing that while he was rehabilitating) :-\ then we had to give him every chance of recovery, especially given he was a key player in our list and former best and fairest winner. If it was a list-clogger then maybe a different story but the club had to spend some money to protect and try to recover it's investment in it's key asset. Hindsight tells us he recovered but not to the level we all hoped but at least the club knows now what it must do. We both agreed it would be good if he could recover and I'm sure we both agree it's a damn shame he didn't - we sure could have used his talent around about now.
And also FWIW, I agree with you about developing and conditioning our young players. We have generally been terrible at that for many, many years now and I would hope that our much vaunted review of all things Football Department finds this and brings about significant change.
Yes l agree the best option was what you said to get the treatment, He is at least playing football & did return to AFL & was riding on adrenalin in his first game & played well l thought.
Natrualy that game would have zapped him completely & he would have got a huge shock how quick the game had become.
The win that night was what he & RFC needed, they pumped that theme song out & it was spine tingling stuff to everyone around.
& so l ate my humble pie that Coughlan did return to AFL football :bow :bow :bow you get the tick of approval :thumbsup
Smokey do you think that now Coughlan has had a year running around & his growing confident with his body, that with another pre-season he could step up that next level required.
Remember when he was fit & playing some years ago the pace of the game had increased with rule changes & how elite the players had to become in fitness.
We have seen that he has become slow in leg speed & judgement with his timing & was dropped accordingly & you can see his struggling in the VFL for speed but l have seen this before with many players after recovering long term injuries & been through long recovery myself so l know what it takes on a personal level.
There is no doubt in anybodys mind that he would be playing & be plauged with the thought of breaking down & being possible career ending. l beleive he has not exerted himself fully this season.
? Is it possible & do you think Coughlan can push himself harder now if he has that confidence in his body.
? Would it be worth the club giving him a 1 year contract like Richo to give him a chance with a uninterupted pre-season to bring him up to the speed of the game.
? Is it a option for the club to try trade him end of season possibly to his home state clubs or to other clubs & would they be interested
? Is he able to adjust to the pace of the todays game.
? Has the game gone past him in terms of not playing for many years.
? Is this the last year we will see Mark Coughlan a AFL footballer
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I remember reading an article with Cogs being interviewed around when he came back with him saying that he will know in a matter of months whether he is still up to AFL level footy.
I wonder what his call on that is now.
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I remember reading an article with Cogs being interviewed around when he came back with him saying that he will know in a matter of months whether he is still up to AFL level footy.
I wonder what his call on that is now.
Well he would have known what it was before he played, he just had to get the feel of it.
He would have tightened up in the legs quite a bit after every game till the body adapts to the punishment.
Players like Judd still tighten up & need time to recover during the week. More of a self confidence sort of thing.
You got to know how hard you can push yourself. muscle strains are a prick sometimes to recover from.