One-Eyed Richmond Forum

Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: Ramps on March 27, 2010, 02:34:11 PM

Title: Can anyone answer this
Post by: Ramps on March 27, 2010, 02:34:11 PM
All clubs have what I would consider to be average players or what the great jack dyer used to say good ordinary players.

R1 we play carlton minus judd and again a couple of what I consider to be good ordinary players once again took us to the cleaners- carazzo, simpson, betts just to name three - even o'hailpin did ok but carazzo and simpson did some serious damage imho.

how come average players at other clubs always seem to take us to  the cleaners, how come over time they seem to improve whilst our "supposed good ordinary players stay at the same level or go backwards an how come some of our supposed better players like newman are way behind the likes of carazzo et al in terms of playing ability. our average players always stay ordinary and its a big problem imho. anyone have adecent answer.
Title: Re: Can anyone answer this
Post by: cub on March 27, 2010, 02:50:10 PM
We just don't seem to be able to get enough decent players with balls in the side at the same time to allow these other players to lift a notch and then develop belief in themselves.
With these types of players moreso than others what happens above the shoulders is paramount to their playing ability and whether they make it or not.
That is probably one of my main problems with Lids, he's big enough! I would really like to see him hitting some packs real "REAL" hard - I don't care if he hurts himself, may make players like Tambling follow the lead and then it becomes infectious and runs down through the team.

One of the reasons I liked Hislops game! If some of these big shots can get some inspiration from someone/somewhere then it can agur well for the team as a whole.
And no I am not a great fan of Hislop but if he keeps up that attack on the ball, maybe he may find some belief and maybe, just maybe he could make it.
Title: Re: Can anyone answer this
Post by: jackstar is back again on March 27, 2010, 03:20:07 PM
All clubs have what I would consider to be average players or what the great jack dyer used to say good ordinary players.

R1 we play carlton minus judd and again a couple of what I consider to be good ordinary players once again took us to the cleaners- carazzo, simpson, betts just to name three - even o'hailpin did ok but carazzo and simpson did some serious damage imho.

how come average players at other clubs always seem to take us to  the cleaners, how come over time they seem to improve whilst our "supposed good ordinary players stay at the same level or go backwards an how come some of our supposed better players like newman are way behind the likes of carazzo et al in terms of playing ability. our average players always stay ordinary and its a big problem imho. anyone have adecent answer.

Would say this.
Both Carazzo ad Simpson ARENT ordinary players.
Can tell you that we used to tag Simpson when we played Carlton in recent years. Carazzo has killed us in the past.
Simpson wasnt tagged the other night.
Both players are highly regarded by the opposition clubs, except for Richmond it seems :banghead
Title: Re: Can anyone answer this
Post by: Tigermonk on March 27, 2010, 03:33:06 PM
was going to say Jack

Ramps you got a funny outlook on ordinary players

Carrazzo & Simpson are top line players.
Its because Carlton who have had idiots that like to have the limelight on them all the time like Fevola that let other players go under the radar
The media frenzy on Judd & Stevens  has given no room for other players to get write ups
Carlton have some very good runners in there side who get the ball very often if not more often than Judd
Carrazzo is a ball magnet.

Our players have never been pushed hard enough in training, just look at the lack of muscles on our twigs
you will get nothing out of pushing cars & kicking into bins  ;D you need to be trained past the point of vomit & learn to cope at that level
Too many passengers at Tigerland & too many individuals  ;D
Title: Re: Can anyone answer this
Post by: Owl on March 27, 2010, 09:27:13 PM
Our players are going to be fine, they are trying to implement a new style of play that challenges your faith a bit.  Everyone has to be on the same page.  Things can turn quickly as it comes together.  It will take some games but look how fast some of the new guys have picked up already from playing out in the boonies and now they are out on the MCG.  They have come a long way fast, that in it self is amazing.  A lot of us want instant success and secretly hoped we would nail those bastards the other night but ..fact is we are going to have to give the new coaching team and the players time to get it all together.  The only way is up.  Just have to manage our expectations and enjoy the player development a bit, success will be all the sweeter when it starts coming though.
Title: Re: Can anyone answer this
Post by: Tigermonk on March 27, 2010, 10:11:46 PM
Our players are going to be fine, they are trying to implement a new style of play that challenges your faith a bit.  Everyone has to be on the same page.  Things can turn quickly as it comes together.  It will take some games but look how fast some of the new guys have picked up already from playing out in the boonies and now they are out on the MCG.  They have come a long way fast, that in it self is amazing.  A lot of us want instant success and secretly hoped we would nail those bastards the other night but ..fact is we are going to have to give the new coaching team and the players time to get it all together.  The only way is up.  Just have to manage our expectations and enjoy the player development a bit, success will be all the sweeter when it starts coming though.

lol instant success no, but we are suffering supporters who have been given them exact lines for 30 years. But l like all your points & its a good post to younger supporters
Title: Re: Can anyone answer this
Post by: TigerTimeII on March 28, 2010, 01:23:45 AM
ffs cant ppl settle down
its gonna take hardwick a goo 6 to 12 weeks to get this team playing a way he wants and to settle the line up as he wants
we are a team rebuilding and transforming, ffs we wont be premiers overnite , just sit back and enjoy  the development, 7-8 yrs ago geelong went through this look at them now
Title: Re: Can anyone answer this
Post by: Owl on March 28, 2010, 11:12:09 AM
Our players are going to be fine, they are trying to implement a new style of play that challenges your faith a bit.  Everyone has to be on the same page.  Things can turn quickly as it comes together.  It will take some games but look how fast some of the new guys have picked up already from playing out in the boonies and now they are out on the MCG.  They have come a long way fast, that in it self is amazing.  A lot of us want instant success and secretly hoped we would nail those bastards the other night but ..fact is we are going to have to give the new coaching team and the players time to get it all together.  The only way is up.  Just have to manage our expectations and enjoy the player development a bit, success will be all the sweeter when it starts coming though.

lol instant success no, but we are suffering supporters who have been given them exact lines for 30 years. But l like all your points & its a good post to younger supporters
Ill admit, I was secretly hoping we were a bit more advanced than we were letting on in the preseason.  The coached warned us it was gonna be ugly for a while.  Yeah it has been a long while between champagnes, so we will have to stick to the witches pee for now lol.
Title: Re: Can anyone answer this
Post by: Smokey on March 28, 2010, 12:59:44 PM
Our players are going to be fine, they are trying to implement a new style of play that challenges your faith a bit.  Everyone has to be on the same page.  Things can turn quickly as it comes together.  It will take some games but look how fast some of the new guys have picked up already from playing out in the boonies and now they are out on the MCG.  They have come a long way fast, that in it self is amazing.  A lot of us want instant success and secretly hoped we would nail those bastards the other night but ..fact is we are going to have to give the new coaching team and the players time to get it all together.  The only way is up.  Just have to manage our expectations and enjoy the player development a bit, success will be all the sweeter when it starts coming though.

x 2   :clapping
Title: Re: Can anyone answer this
Post by: JVT on March 29, 2010, 09:57:22 AM
Our players are going to be fine, they are trying to implement a new style of play that challenges your faith a bit.  Everyone has to be on the same page.  Things can turn quickly as it comes together.  It will take some games but look how fast some of the new guys have picked up already from playing out in the boonies and now they are out on the MCG.  They have come a long way fast, that in it self is amazing.  A lot of us want instant success and secretly hoped we would nail those bastards the other night but ..fact is we are going to have to give the new coaching team and the players time to get it all together.  The only way is up.  Just have to manage our expectations and enjoy the player development a bit, success will be all the sweeter when it starts coming though.
ffs cant ppl settle down
its gonna take hardwick a goo 6 to 12 weeks to get this team playing a way he wants and to settle the line up as he wants
we are a team rebuilding and transforming, ffs we wont be premiers overnite , just sit back and enjoy  the development, 7-8 yrs ago geelong went through this look at them now
Great posts!  :clapping
Title: Re: Can anyone answer this
Post by: tony_montana on March 29, 2010, 11:08:29 AM
All clubs have what I would consider to be average players or what the great jack dyer used to say good ordinary players.

R1 we play carlton minus judd and again a couple of what I consider to be good ordinary players once again took us to the cleaners- carazzo, simpson, betts just to name three - even o'hailpin did ok but carazzo and simpson did some serious damage imho.

how come average players at other clubs always seem to take us to  the cleaners, how come over time they seem to improve whilst our "supposed good ordinary players stay at the same level or go backwards an how come some of our supposed better players like newman are way behind the likes of carazzo et al in terms of playing ability. our average players always stay ordinary and its a big problem imho. anyone have adecent answer.

Its all about gameplan and structure. Collingwood hawthorn and stkilda are prob the best example of having very strong structures in place which enable players with deficiencies to play roles that minimise the risk of being exposed on these flaws, alternatively we've barely had any decent structures in place which allows for our less talented players to find themselves in positions where their flaws get exposed time and time again(through manipulation of matchups/setups from opposition coaches). Hopefully hardwick brings some strong structures from the hawks which will lessen the negative impact our flawed players have on our side. Won't be able to tell if this is the case for a fair while yet
Title: Re: Can anyone answer this
Post by: blaisee on March 29, 2010, 11:59:02 AM
Have to say Carrazzo isnt a top liner, not even close. The only reason why he is allowed to run around on his own and collect 40 possessions is because he turns it over worse than Tuck. Infact come to think of it Tuck and Carrazzo are not too dissimilar, neither would get a game in a top line team.

Title: Re: Can anyone answer this
Post by: jackstar is back again on March 29, 2010, 12:05:24 PM
Have to say Carrazzo isnt a top liner, not even close. The only reason why he is allowed to run around on his own and collect 40 possessions is because he turns it over worse than Tuck. Infact come to think of it Tuck and Carrazzo are not too dissimilar, neither would get a game in a top line team.



What drugs you on ::)
Title: Re: Can anyone answer this
Post by: Tigermonk on March 29, 2010, 12:51:41 PM
Have to say Carrazzo isnt a top liner, not even close. The only reason why he is allowed to run around on his own and collect 40 possessions is because he turns it over worse than Tuck. Infact come to think of it Tuck and Carrazzo are not too dissimilar, neither would get a game in a top line team.



Blaisee you are surely on drugs  :rollin
Title: Re: Can anyone answer this
Post by: wayne on March 29, 2010, 12:56:03 PM
Have to say Carrazzo isnt a top liner, not even close. The only reason why he is allowed to run around on his own and collect 40 possessions is because he turns it over worse than Tuck. Infact come to think of it Tuck and Carrazzo are not too dissimilar, neither would get a game in a top line team.



I agree Blaisee.

He got away with it against us because he could kick his helicopter punts into space and they didn't look that bad. Get him pin pointing passes and he comes unstuck.
Title: Re: Can anyone answer this
Post by: TigerRocket on March 29, 2010, 01:21:08 PM
Guys if my memory serves me Carazzo was a tagger in his early days, didn't he win a Carlton B&F (not that that is important to us it probably means he can play a bit!1)

The real thing that worries me is what the hell is his opponent doing??

I posted just after the match on Thursday about our inability to run to space, our players just look 'LAZY' the number of times players have the ball in defence and look to find standing standing on the spot 'waving their hands' instead of running to open space simply amazes me.

One final point, I recall our backline with Thursfield, Moore and McGuane played some pretty good football a couple of seasons ago when they were allowed to settle into their roles over a number of games .... let's do the same with Dan Connors and Tich Edwards and fiddle with the rest of the team and see where it gets us?
Title: Re: Can anyone answer this
Post by: tugga on March 29, 2010, 01:31:26 PM
Have to say Carrazzo isnt a top liner, not even close. The only reason why he is allowed to run around on his own and collect 40 possessions is because he turns it over worse than Tuck. Infact come to think of it Tuck and Carrazzo are not too dissimilar, neither would get a game in a top line team.


Correct. That's why teams allow Daniel Jackson to collect his 25-plus possessions per game. Simpson is a good-ordinary player. Carazzo slightly better, but neither are stars.
Title: Re: Can anyone answer this
Post by: blaisee on March 29, 2010, 01:43:55 PM
Have to say Carrazzo isnt a top liner, not even close. The only reason why he is allowed to run around on his own and collect 40 possessions is because he turns it over worse than Tuck. Infact come to think of it Tuck and Carrazzo are not too dissimilar, neither would get a game in a top line team.


Correct. That's why teams allow Daniel Jackson to collect his 25-plus possessions per game. Simpson is a good-ordinary player. Carazzo slightly better, but neither are stars.

you are right about jackson. Players that do not hurt the opposition with their skills are zoned off and allowed to get the ball. Carazzo would not get a game with a topline team.
Title: Re: Can anyone answer this
Post by: jackstar is back again on March 29, 2010, 03:03:26 PM
Carazzo was a runaway winner of the B & F in 2007 you will find.
Beat the likes of Waite , Stevens ,Fev and Simpson
Title: Re: Can anyone answer this
Post by: tugga on March 29, 2010, 03:41:05 PM
Carazzo was a runaway winner of the B & F in 2007 you will find.
Beat the likes of Waite , Stevens ,Fev and Simpson
Nick Daffy won a B&F with us. What's your point?
Title: Re: Can anyone answer this
Post by: blaisee on March 29, 2010, 04:07:12 PM
Carazzo was a runaway winner of the B & F in 2007 you will find.
Beat the likes of Waite , Stevens ,Fev and Simpson

Daniel Jackson came 2nd last year so what?

Interesting you point out 2007, Carazzo's stellar B+F winning year

That year the blues had four wins up to round 11 and lost 11 in a row in the most blatant act of tanking in the history of the AFL, it was of course surpassed ( as a tannking achievement ) by Melbourne FC last year but that is another story,


however I digress, back to carazzo and 2007.

Yes Carazzo did beat out Fevola for the 2007 B+F but Fev was injured all year and scored the least amount of goals he has scored in the last 7 years in 2007.

And true, he did beat out Nick Stevens for the 2007 best and fairest award at carlton but you left out a very interesting fact, Stevens only played 3 games, FOR THE WHOLE YEAR. :banghead

Carazzo had 569 possessions in 2007 and the blues won 4 games. Last year when the blues made the finals for the first time since 2001, he was only selected to play in 15 games and had more than 200 possies less than in 2007. That is not a coincidence, you cant carry players in your team that cant kick if you are a top line team. If the blues are any good this year, carrazzo wont be starting on the ball, that is for sure.


Nothing against carrazzo of course but he is a battler that turns it over, nowhere near a top liner, not even close.
Title: Re: Can anyone answer this
Post by: jackstar is back again on March 29, 2010, 05:56:18 PM
Fev kicked 50 odd for the year
Title: Re: Can anyone answer this
Post by: jackstar is back again on March 29, 2010, 06:01:23 PM
Carazzo was a runaway winner of the B & F in 2007 you will find.
Beat the likes of Waite , Stevens ,Fev and Simpson

Daniel Jackson came 2nd last year so what?

Interesting you point out 2007, Carazzo's stellar B+F winning year

That year the blues had four wins up to round 11 and lost 11 in a row in the most blatant act of tanking in the history of the AFL, it was of course surpassed ( as a tannking achievement ) by Melbourne FC last year but that is another story,


however I digress, back to carazzo and 2007.

Yes Carazzo did beat out Fevola for the 2007 B+F but Fev was injured all year and scored the least amount of goals he has scored in the last 7 years in 2007.

And true, he did beat out Nick Stevens for the 2007 best and fairest award at carlton but you left out a very interesting fact, Stevens only played 3 games, FOR THE WHOLE YEAR. :banghead

Carazzo had 569 possessions in 2007 and the blues won 4 games. Last year when the blues made the finals for the first time since 2001, he was only selected to play in 15 games and had more than 200 possies less than in 2007. That is not a coincidence, you cant carry players in your team that cant kick if you are a top line team. If the blues are any good this year, carrazzo wont be starting on the ball, that is for sure.


Nothing against carrazzo of course but he is a battler that turns it over, nowhere near a top liner, not even close.

Sorry, got mixed up with Heath Scotland and not Stevens.
Carazzo actually got 11 votes in the Brownlow as well.
Not bad from a player who team won 4-5 games for the year, dont you think
Title: Re: Can anyone answer this
Post by: Tigermonk on March 29, 2010, 06:32:16 PM
Anyone saying Carrazzo is not a good top line footballer is a idiot
he tore us up Thursday night & his a consistant ball getter & if you watch the replay you see him doing just that destroying us.
He also gathers alot of possies against good sides
If he said he wanted to come to Richmond you pricks would be screaming for him
Title: Re: Can anyone answer this
Post by: Ramps on March 29, 2010, 06:38:06 PM
id be against it ... ive always reckoned he was an average player
Title: Re: Can anyone answer this
Post by: jackstar is back again on March 29, 2010, 06:42:04 PM
id be against it ... ive always reckoned he was an average player

Can tell you we tagged BOTH in previous years ;)( simpson and Carazzo )
We didnt tag either last thursday night
Title: Re: Can anyone answer this
Post by: Tigermonk on March 29, 2010, 06:58:20 PM
id be against it ... ive always reckoned he was an average player

average players dont rack up 30 & 40 possies consistantly
gathering that many possies tells you something that his doing the workrate that our players dont do
l think Carrazzo acheivements in football tells you the story

l was stunned watching the replay this arvo that McGuane stopped after giving off the ball & he had not moved a inch when the ball came past him again & he hardly moved then, thats totally unexceptable & l hope his ass gets kicked back to Coburg seconds & Gourdis is giving his place for at least 6 weeks
Title: Re: Can anyone answer this
Post by: Tigermonk on March 29, 2010, 07:02:42 PM
id be against it ... ive always reckoned he was an average player

Can tell you we tagged BOTH in previous years ;)( simpson and Carazzo )
We didnt tag either last thursday night

Jackstar is very obvious that we are talking to idiots who dont watch the game like we do
Title: Re: Can anyone answer this
Post by: blaisee on March 29, 2010, 07:18:25 PM
id be against it ... ive always reckoned he was an average player

average players dont rack up 30 & 40 possies consistantly



really ?, in the modern game it is only half ( less than half of the equation )

Tuck gets 30 possessions a week and cant get a game with a bottom two side like ours. Furthermore he was offered for trade for anything ( and I mean anything even a 5th round draft pick we would of taken ) and nobody wanted him.
The reason why is that he coughs it up. Just like Carrazzo.

Title: Re: Can anyone answer this
Post by: jackstar is back again on March 29, 2010, 07:42:48 PM
id be against it ... ive always reckoned he was an average player

Can tell you we tagged BOTH in previous years ;)( simpson and Carazzo )
We didnt tag either last thursday night

Jackstar is very obvious that we are talking to idiots who dont watch the game like we do


Mate , we are the idiots, why ? Discussing it was absolute nuffers who have little idea. :banghead
Title: Re: Can anyone answer this
Post by: yellowandback on March 29, 2010, 08:24:13 PM
id be against it ... ive always reckoned he was an average player

Can tell you we tagged BOTH in previous years ;)( simpson and Carazzo )
We didnt tag either last thursday night

Jackstar is very obvious that we are talking to idiots who dont watch the game like we do


Mate , we are the idiots, why ? Discussing it was absolute nuffers who have little idea. :banghead

it's because we have a totally unexceptable knowledge of the game.
I like poo kicks. They get you to 9th.



Title: Re: Can anyone answer this
Post by: jackstar is back again on March 29, 2010, 08:51:51 PM
id be against it ... ive always reckoned he was an average player

Can tell you we tagged BOTH in previous years ;)( simpson and Carazzo )
We didnt tag either last thursday night

Jackstar is very obvious that we are talking to idiots who dont watch the game like we do


Mate , we are the idiots, why ? Discussing it was absolute nuffers who have little idea. :banghead

it's because we have a totally unexceptable knowledge of the game.
I like poo kicks. They get you to 9th.





Maybe if you watch  a game, you might improve. ;)
Title: Re: Can anyone answer this
Post by: tigersalive on March 29, 2010, 10:11:26 PM
Have to say Carrazzo isnt a top liner, not even close. The only reason why he is allowed to run around on his own and collect 40 possessions is because he turns it over worse than Tuck. Infact come to think of it Tuck and Carrazzo are not too dissimilar, neither would get a game in a top line team.

Right on.  Most of his kicks are short and sideways and he gets plenty of useless 1-2s to pad the stats.  Just a good ordinary player.


Kade Simpson is a far more damaging player with the ball and even he isn't a star.
Title: Re: Can anyone answer this
Post by: Francois Jackson on March 29, 2010, 10:31:10 PM
Have to say Carrazzo isnt a top liner, not even close. The only reason why he is allowed to run around on his own and collect 40 possessions is because he turns it over worse than Tuck. Infact come to think of it Tuck and Carrazzo are not too dissimilar, neither would get a game in a top line team.

Right on.  Most of his kicks are short and sideways and he gets plenty of useless 1-2s to pad the stats.  Just a good ordinary player.


Kade Simpson is a far more damaging player with the ball and even he isn't a star.

which is why our so called captain needs to be moved out of the back 6 immediately while he still has hope.

I mean he cant even bomb it out of defensive 50 so what the hell is he still doing there.

Newman into the centre and like Simpson will be more damaging to the opposition with his booming left foot, if he can find it again

Hardwick should start to think outside the square and play with this team till he finds the right mix and i think this should be our next move.
Title: Re: Can anyone answer this
Post by: Hellenic Tiger on March 30, 2010, 09:56:31 PM
Our captain needs to get his hands dirty and get physical by putting his head over the ball not reincarnating himself as the new Joel Bowden and looking to get easy kicks.
Remember the fish rots at the head.
Title: Re: Can anyone answer this
Post by: Mr Magic on April 01, 2010, 12:09:36 AM
Get him pin pointing passes and he comes unstuck.

That may well be the case.
Shame we put him under no pressure whatsoever and he was integral in many Carlton attacks.