One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: Stripes on December 29, 2010, 02:19:46 PM
-
This thread is a mirror image of the Midfield thread but, of course, focusing on our defenders.
Please rank our defenders from 1st to last.
Here is my order based on defenders 'importance' but not necessarily form -
1. Newman - our general in defence, directs defensive team, bleeds for the club, beautiful disposal, sets up play
2. Deledio - Newman's deputy, amazing natural ability, our best player based on skill, sets up play
3. McGuane - Our best tall defender imho, has speed and excellent spoiling ability, experienced and improved disposal
4. Moore - another underrated midsized defender who can play tall and small, one of our most experienced players
5. Astbury - still raw but with a massive upside, tall, quick and lovely by foot
6. Connors - Showed a huge amount last season and improved attitude, great footskills, me curial,
7. Thursfield - great spoiler but lacks the attacking games required in to-days football
8. Tuck - played in the midfield and defence this year, strong, great ball winner
9. Farmer - Hinted at playing more in attack next season but farmer showed glimpses of form this year, great long kick, hard at it
10. Gourdis - wonderful athlete but questions about his footskills, elevated because of his improved decision making and confidence but still needs to show much more advancement to cement a place in the team.
11. O'Rielly - played 3 games in a good first season but still has a long way to go
12. Grimes - IMO will become a good players but still very raw
13. Rance - lacks polish and defensive skills, great athlete, played forward and back but juries out
14. Butcher - Amazing prospect, mid sized natural defender with wonder ball skills, marking ability and decision-making skills, new recruit keeping him down the list
15. Dea - great physic for a young player, injury and inexperience still needs to be overcome
Thanks
Stripes
-
I was wondering who Butcher was...
Butchelor ;D
-
McGuane at 3, poo we are doomed! :banghead
-
I like Mcguane. He has bulked up to 95kg and is a very good stopper at 192cm. People forget our defence has been hit with more balls than any other club in the last 3 years due to our midfield struggles. So Mcguane is one of the better 1 on 1 stoppers in the afl. He has been our full back for the last 2 seasons mainly, while he shared this role with Thursty in 2008. Moore did fill this role in the centenary game when the other two were injured as well as sharing a role on Franklin in 1 game. Mcguanes long kicking is pretty good but sometimes his short kicking gets cut off. But Moore has the same problem with short kicks too. That was only really a problem for Mcguane in 2010 so it's more about confidence. Once he removes those small errors from his game he'll be right. Here's my back 6 8)
FB: connors mcguane newman
HB: deledio astbury gourdis
INT: webberley
EMER: farmer moore dea batchelor
I'd like to see Gourdis in Round 1 as the 3rd tall and Webberley as an extra small defender from the bench to allow Deledio to go into the middle for spurts. Gourdis is 193cm so has good height and a good leap, while Astbury(195cm) and Mcguane(192cm) will play first and second tall. Carlton have tall forwards Henderson(196cm) and Waite(194cm) while they'll use a third tall either O'Hailpin, Kruezer, Hampson who range between 199 and 200cm. I think Webberley is the skillfull type who will fill Deledios role nicely when Deledio goes into the middle for 5 minutes a quarter. Farmer would battle for Connors spot in Round 1 I think.
-
OMG Stripes.....Did you watch any of 2010? Mcguane had a horrible year where he took a massive step backwards.
Moore has superior foot skills and Thursty definately has greater defensive capabilities than Luke Mcguane.
I only hope that the reports of Luke putting on 6 kgs are correct.
-
I only hope that the reports of Luke putting on 6 kgs are correct.
Dan Connors interviewed Luke on one of the Christmas videos, said he was bigger and hadn't been doing much running yet, just pumping iron.
-
Mcguane our best defender. I think you have had your pudding spiked over xmas if you believe that to be true. He is a dud.
Farmer not sold on one bit
the rest i agree with.
-
I thought having McGuane and Moore near the top would get some banter going :P
You have to remember though this is not about whether our defenders compare to other defenders in the league or whether they are up to it but rather how they compare to each other.
Which tall defenders are better than McGuane and Moore? This is why we are trying Gourdis and why the emergence of Astbury is so important too.
Stripes
-
I'm sorry, but I just can't agree with yr assessment of McGuane. He is slow, his decision making is poor, his skills are below par and he is the last RFC player I want to see with ball in hand.
-
McGuane at 3, poo we are doomed! :banghead
:lol
I'm sorry, but I just can't agree with yr assessment of McGuane. He is slow, his decision making is poor, his skills are below par and he is the last RFC player I want to see with ball in hand.
Agree with a fair bit of that but he's not slow. He's quick at top pace but not agile. He's also undisciplined which undoes some of the good things he does.
McGuane one of the best defenders in the league :lol And Jordy was one of the AFLs best contested ball winners. ;D
-
[quote author=Big Sexy link=topic=12326.msg217286#msg217286 date=1293619492
McGuane one of the best defenders in the league :lol And Jordy was one of the AFLs best contested ball winners. ;D
[/quote]
Where did I say he was one of the best defenders in the league but rather he is our best tall defender. If you disagree then that's fine but name the tall defender we have that is better than him at the moment?
This is exactly my point - McGuane would not be my first choice as our full back but other than an undersized Moore, he is our best. This should prove to us all that we are still miles away in terms of tall defenders and is why the development of players such as Astbury, Gourdis and even Rance is so crucial to our future success.
Stripes
-
Where the stuff did I say it was you that said he was one of the best defenders in the league? Read the whole topic and you'll see that someone else said he's one of the best stoppers going around.
Kelvin Moore is better. Always has been. Madtiger can tell himself all he wants that McGuane was taking on the #1 forwards in 08 but it was Moore. I taped half of those games and Moore was the one playing on the likes of Franklin, Brown, Fev etc. I'm sure he can got an revisit some of the threads on those games and he'll see people talking about the goods jobs Kel did too. I'm not saying Moore is a superstar but he is a better player than McGuane. The way I see it McGuane needs a stuffing good year next year.
-
Where the eff did I say it was you that said he was one of the best defenders in the league? Read the whole topic and you'll see that someone else said he's one of the best stoppers going around.
Kelvin Moore is better. Always has been. Madtiger can tell himself all he wants that McGuane was taking on the #1 forwards in 08 but it was Moore. I taped half of those games and Moore was the one playing on the likes of Franklin, Brown, Fev etc. I'm sure he can got an revisit some of the threads on those games and he'll see people talking about the goods jobs Kel did too. I'm not saying Moore is a superstar but he is a better player than McGuane. The way I see it McGuane needs a effing good year next year.
Fair enough. Thought you were talking to me. :-[
The only reason I would put McGuane above Moore is his size, spoiling ability and reach compared to Kel. McGuane is also younger. This is why I gave the ranking I did.
-
Where the eff did I say it was you that said he was one of the best defenders in the league? Read the whole topic and you'll see that someone else said he's one of the best stoppers going around.
Kelvin Moore is better. Always has been. Madtiger can tell himself all he wants that McGuane was taking on the #1 forwards in 08 but it was Moore. I taped half of those games and Moore was the one playing on the likes of Franklin, Brown, Fev etc. I'm sure he can got an revisit some of the threads on those games and he'll see people talking about the goods jobs Kel did too. I'm not saying Moore is a superstar but he is a better player than McGuane. The way I see it McGuane needs a effing good year next year.
Fair enough. Thought you were talking to me. :-[
The only reason I would put McGuane above Moore is his size, spoiling ability and reach compared to Kel. McGuane is also younger. This is why I gave the ranking I did.
Fair enough man. All good :thumbsup
-
10. Gourdis - wonderful athlete but questions about his footskills, elevated because of his improved decision making and confidence but still needs to show much more advancement to cement a place in the team.
11. O'Rielly - played 3 games in a good first season but still has a long way to go
12. Grimes - IMO will become a good players but still very raw
13. Rance - lacks polish and defensive skills, great athlete, played forward and back but juries out
14. Butcher - Amazing prospect, mid sized natural defender with wonder ball skills, marking ability and decision-making skills, new recruit keeping him down the list
15. Dea - great physic for a young player, injury and inexperience still needs to be overcome
These last 5 are the players I'm most keen to see rapid improvement in. I'm no sure whether Rance will make it as a defender as he seems to panic under pressure and do the 180 degree turn too frequently running out of defence.
I would love to see Gourdis become our FB. With his athletism and closing speed he has the potential to be a fantastic defender but the old mail on his desposal and decision making skills has returned to haunt him over the preseason after shaking this off later in the 2010 season.
Dea is a delemia for me. He looks strong but has he got the required skills etc to make it. I just haven't seen enough of him and he still lokks all at sea in the brief time he spent on the ground this year. I understand this is expected for a first year player but I hope he makes it.
O'Rielly looks to have the passion and will leave no stone unturned but will be have the skills and decision-making skills - I think the lad will make it but its more a belief than a probable fact.
Grimes is the player I'm most interested in as he has all the attributes to be a great tall for us. I hope he gains the skills and education he needs to entrench himself in the side and this year gains the required onfield time he needs to uncover his potential.
Stripes
-
Where the eff did I say it was you that said he was one of the best defenders in the league? Read the whole topic and you'll see that someone else said he's one of the best stoppers going around.
Kelvin Moore is better. Always has been. Madtiger can tell himself all he wants that McGuane was taking on the #1 forwards in 08 but it was Moore. I taped half of those games and Moore was the one playing on the likes of Franklin, Brown, Fev etc. I'm sure he can got an revisit some of the threads on those games and he'll see people talking about the goods jobs Kel did too. I'm not saying Moore is a superstar but he is a better player than McGuane. The way I see it McGuane needs a effing good year next year.
I don't get tiger supporters 8)
Moore takes the 2nd or 3rd best tall opposition forward 20 times a year and most of thoese are at half back. Been that way for last 3 years. You'll always look better playing on the 3rd tall and 50m away from the defensive goal square. Your possessions will be in more space and less pressure. If Moore played at FB every week, he'd get beaten alot more than Mcguane. Moore is just a handy undersized 3rd or 4rh tall suited at half back where he can delivery his dinky kicks over the top. Go and watch some replays, he turns it over just as much as Mcguane with his short kicks, he's far from a penetrating kick. Mcguane is a better long kick with much more penetration. If he gets his confidence up his short stab kicking will be pretty good. He has much more upside with some improvement in congested situations
-
Where the eff did I say it was you that said he was one of the best defenders in the league? Read the whole topic and you'll see that someone else said he's one of the best stoppers going around.
Kelvin Moore is better. Always has been. Madtiger can tell himself all he wants that McGuane was taking on the #1 forwards in 08 but it was Moore. I taped half of those games and Moore was the one playing on the likes of Franklin, Brown, Fev etc. I'm sure he can got an revisit some of the threads on those games and he'll see people talking about the goods jobs Kel did too. I'm not saying Moore is a superstar but he is a better player than McGuane. The way I see it McGuane needs a effing good year next year.
I don't get tiger supporters 8)
Moore takes the 2nd or 3rd best tall opposition forward 20 times a year and most of thoese are at half back. Been that way for last 3 years. You'll always look better playing on the 3rd tall and 50m away from the defensive goal square. Your possessions will be in more space and less pressure. If Moore played at FB every week, he'd get beaten alot more than Mcguane. Moore is just a handy undersized 3rd or 4rh tall suited at half back where he can delivery his dinky kicks over the top. Go and watch some replays, he turns it over just as much as Mcguane with his short kicks, he's far from a penetrating kick. Mcguane is a better long kick with much more penetration. If he gets his confidence up his short stab kicking will be pretty good. He has much more upside with some improvement in congested situations
i disagree with just about all of that.
-
A massive concern is all I can say. Not so much the smalls/midsize defenders but with our key defenders or rather lack of quality ones. Apart from Astbury as a future CHB (who admittedly is only entering his 2nd year and has yet been given a permanent key backman role), it's hard to see from those currently on our list where we'll find a quality FB. I don't see it from McGuane, Gourdis or Rance; too many flaws with their kicking and decision making. Thursty is really only biding him time this year until he is delisted as the game has gone past negating-only defenders while Postie is a "who knows" player at the minute who has yet to settle in any position. Moore is probably our most reliable tall-ish defender and seems to have the knack of regularly containing Buddy but like most of our backmen lacks size against the big lug opposition forwards. Grimes and Batchelor are unknowns. We are really missing a Hurley-type of defender on our list.
-
Where the eff did I say it was you that said he was one of the best defenders in the league? Read the whole topic and you'll see that someone else said he's one of the best stoppers going around.
Kelvin Moore is better. Always has been. Madtiger can tell himself all he wants that McGuane was taking on the #1 forwards in 08 but it was Moore. I taped half of those games and Moore was the one playing on the likes of Franklin, Brown, Fev etc. I'm sure he can got an revisit some of the threads on those games and he'll see people talking about the goods jobs Kel did too. I'm not saying Moore is a superstar but he is a better player than McGuane. The way I see it McGuane needs a effing good year next year.
I don't get tiger supporters 8)
Moore takes the 2nd or 3rd best tall opposition forward 20 times a year and most of thoese are at half back. Been that way for last 3 years. You'll always look better playing on the 3rd tall and 50m away from the defensive goal square. Your possessions will be in more space and less pressure. If Moore played at FB every week, he'd get beaten alot more than Mcguane. Moore is just a handy undersized 3rd or 4rh tall suited at half back where he can delivery his dinky kicks over the top. Go and watch some replays, he turns it over just as much as Mcguane with his short kicks, he's far from a penetrating kick. Mcguane is a better long kick with much more penetration. If he gets his confidence up his short stab kicking will be pretty good. He has much more upside with some improvement in congested situations
i disagree with just about all of that.
As expected. You probably call BALL even though 95% of the time it isn't holding the ball too 8)
-
We are really missing a Hurley-type of defender on our list.
You mean slow and will most likely play as a forward type?
-
We are really missing a Hurley-type of defender on our list.
You mean slow and will most likely play as a forward type?
Critics have been saying Hurley's too slow for AFL since his U18s days. He doesn't look so slow playing on a Nick Riewoldt. I would have him on our list ahead of most of our tall defenders. At least he can use the footy and hit a target by foot coming out of defence. I would even have Pears ahead of our options. The only players I'd take from Essendon's list btw as their midfield and forward line are crap.
-
I thought having McGuane and Moore near the top would get some banter going :P
You have to remember though this is not about whether our defenders compare to other defenders in the league or whether they are up to it but rather how they compare to each other.
Which tall defenders are better than McGuane and Moore? This is why we are trying Gourdis and why the emergence of Astbury is so important too.
Stripes
kel moore is a third tall only. to ask a 86kg bottom ended tall at barely 190cm to play kp is ridiculous. i hope in this area the rfc finally wakes up to itself.
thursfield well as a stopper a better player than mcguane.
gourdis imo has already shown attributes that suggest a much better player than both. yet in the long term we may need to upgrade on him also.
imo you miss the whole point. we cant go with mcguane or thursty we have to do better. as such we now need to find out if gourdis is better. he certainly has more to work with than both the others.
-
Critics have been saying Hurley's too slow for AFL since his U18s days. He doesn't look so slow playing on a Nick Riewoldt. I would have him on our list ahead of most of our tall defenders. At least he can use the footy and hit a target by foot coming out of defence. I would even have Pears ahead of our options. The only players I'd take from Essendon's list btw as their midfield and forward line are crap.
Paddy Ryder might get a game ;)
-
Where the eff did I say it was you that said he was one of the best defenders in the league? Read the whole topic and you'll see that someone else said he's one of the best stoppers going around.
Kelvin Moore is better. Always has been. Madtiger can tell himself all he wants that McGuane was taking on the #1 forwards in 08 but it was Moore. I taped half of those games and Moore was the one playing on the likes of Franklin, Brown, Fev etc. I'm sure he can got an revisit some of the threads on those games and he'll see people talking about the goods jobs Kel did too. I'm not saying Moore is a superstar but he is a better player than McGuane. The way I see it McGuane needs a effing good year next year.
I don't get tiger supporters 8)
Moore takes the 2nd or 3rd best tall opposition forward 20 times a year and most of thoese are at half back. Been that way for last 3 years. You'll always look better playing on the 3rd tall and 50m away from the defensive goal square. Your possessions will be in more space and less pressure. If Moore played at FB every week, he'd get beaten alot more than Mcguane. Moore is just a handy undersized 3rd or 4rh tall suited at half back where he can delivery his dinky kicks over the top. Go and watch some replays, he turns it over just as much as Mcguane with his short kicks, he's far from a penetrating kick. Mcguane is a better long kick with much more penetration. If he gets his confidence up his short stab kicking will be pretty good. He has much more upside with some improvement in congested situations
:lol
I don't understand delusional stuff. You avoided my question to you from a while back...are you that bloke from big footy who thought Cleve Hughes was a gun? Might help me understand why you think Moore played on the 3rd tall in 08 if you are. :shh I've seen plenty of McGuane and Moore. Moore is by far a better user of the ball.
Both need to have good years next year. As for your post to Slick Willy, who doesn't occasionally do that at a game? What are you, an armchair ump or something? :bow
Regards,
Sexy Uncle
-
We are really missing a Hurley-type of defender on our list.
You mean slow and will most likely play as a forward type?
Critics have been saying Hurley's too slow for AFL since his U18s days. He doesn't look so slow playing on a Nick Riewoldt. I would have him on our list ahead of most of our tall defenders. At least he can use the footy and hit a target by foot coming out of defence. I would even have Pears ahead of our options. The only players I'd take from Essendon's list btw as their midfield and forward line are crap.
He's still not fast, Saint Nick isn't super fast either, amazing tank though
-
6/10
improvement to 8 this season expected.
-
6/10
improvement to 8 this season expected.
Or prayed for! :pray
-
imo you miss the whole point. we cant go with mcguane or thursty we have to do better. as such we now need to find out if gourdis is better. he certainly has more to work with than both the others.
Which point would that be? That at the moment McGuane and Moore are our best Key Position backmen or that Gourdis is barely off the Rookie list and we are praying he will miraculously improve to such a point in one year that he becomes our undesputed full back. I'm hoping the last is the case but he still has a huge amount of growth and development a head of him in a very small time frame.
I think as myself, MT and others have already pointed out, that our key backmen are a real concern and the recruitment and development of talent in this area should be one of our biggest focus on as a club going forward.
So what point did I miss?
Stripes
-
I like big Gourdis. Had a good year with the Burgers at full back and I was impressed with him when he stepped into the Richmond side. Has got some things to learn but there is definitely something there. Hopefully he plays 10 (or more) games next year.
-
We all see what we want to see at times.
Gourdis and Grimes have a long long way to go. Watch the 4thQ vs PA (round 22) and see how many goals those two cost us by crashing into each other. The way those two got so easily blocked out of marking contests (by crashing into each other no less) says they've got lots to work on with respect of positioning, reading blocks and reading how the ball is coming into the forward line. Keystone Kop'esque if truth be told.
-
We all see what we want to see at times.
Gourdis and Grimes have a long long way to go. Watch the 4thQ vs PA (round 22) and see how many goals those two cost us by crashing into each other. The way those two got so easily blocked out of marking contests (by crashing into each other no less) says they've got lots to work on with respect of positioning, reading blocks and reading how the ball is coming into the forward line. Keystone Kop'esque if truth be told.
We do indeed, mate ;)
I thought Goo was okay in the Port game. Was always on Sarges tail and got some good spoils in. Like I said before, he's got plenty to learn but there is definitely something to work with. This was his first year down back and he only made his debut this season. I reckon we can cut he and Grimes some slack. It took Kel Moore a long time to show his talent at AFL level. It's not like they've been here 6 years and still make the same mistakes. :whistle
Personally I hope Gourdis can keeping improving and finishes up as our FB. Astbury as CHB and the versatile Moore in the BP playing on either a tall or a small. :thumbsup
-
imo you miss the whole point. we cant go with mcguane or thursty we have to do better. as such we now need to find out if gourdis is better. he certainly has more to work with than both the others.
Which point would that be? That at the moment McGuane and Moore are our best Key Position backmen or that Gourdis is barely off the Rookie list and we are praying he will miraculously improve to such a point in one year that he becomes our undesputed full back. I'm hoping the last is the case but he still has a huge amount of growth and development a head of him in a very small time frame.
I think as myself, MT and others have already pointed out, that our key backmen are a real concern and the recruitment and development of talent in this area should be one of our biggest focus on as a club going forward.
So what point did I miss?
Stripes
the point of mcguane being our best along with moore in kp. if they are we are in bigger trouble than custer at the big horn.
ke; moore should not be selected ever as a kpp unless injuries on game day kill us. mcguane just is not up to the standard and that rookie you talk about in gourdis now enters yr 4 has shown enough improvement to go from the coburg reserves to playing very good footy at coburg seniors to playing for richmond. his attributes automatically place him in front of bloody hacks like mcguane.
im not praying gourdis will miraculously improve i would have thought that has already occcured on a gradual scale. what needs to happen now is find out if he can be better than a very ordinary player by giving him games.
you people really dont get it backing in 6 yr under performing hacks and in the same breath denying a younger player the opportunity to at least show he can be better than below standard which is exactly what mcguane is. theres nothing to lose by playing gourdis and plenty to gain.
and your damn right as mt yourself, and myself which has been constantly pointed out for yrs now by the way the key backs especially the older hacks are of real concern hence my posting.
-
I don't believe throwing Gourdis into the deep end all year as our FB is the answer. Perhaps as our third tall defender if the matchups are right, who swaps with McGuane into the position/role but the last thing we need is to destroy his confidence and his team mates in his ability by giving him the number one role without, at the very least, backup.
I'm certainly not saying McGuane is one of the best defenders in the league but he, and Moore for that matter, remains our best tall defender at this stage and until others can push him/them out of that role then he will remain out number option. The club has elevated Gourdis for a reason but I don't feel he is there yet and would be extremely surprized if he was given the FB position in our first game of the year.
Stripes
-
That's fair enough, Stripes. I am hoping Gourdis plays at least 10 games this year. The club showed belief in him by putting him on some good forwards last season. He was pretty good apart from Kossie kicking 4 on him. Can't really blame Gourdis for that though as Kossie lead well and got hit on the tit every time. I get the feeling a few coterie members won't like the Goo getting games at full back :shh Suck poo you old whores. Times are changing
;D
-
and your damn right as mt yourself, and myself which has been constantly pointed out for yrs now by the way the key backs especially the older hacks are of real concern hence my posting.
I want what you're on Craw ;D
-
the point of mcguane being our best along with moore in kp. if they are we are in bigger trouble than custer at the big horn.
Interesting story that. Custer came within a whisker of pulling off an inspired and remarkable achievement, but due to lack of teamwork got slaughtered. A bit like footy I suppose, where lack of teamwork cannot be overcome by individual talent.
Sorry to detract.
As you were.
-
This thread is a mirror image of the Midfield thread but, of course, focusing on our defenders.
Please rank our defenders from 1st to last.
Here is my order based on defenders 'importance' but not necessarily form -
1. Newman - our general in defence, directs defensive team, bleeds for the club, beautiful disposal, sets up play
2. Deledio - Newman's deputy, amazing natural ability, our best player based on skill, sets up play
3. McGuane - Our best tall defender imho, has speed and excellent spoiling ability, experienced and improved disposal
4. Moore - another underrated midsized defender who can play tall and small, one of our most experienced players
5. Astbury - still raw but with a massive upside, tall, quick and lovely by foot
6. Connors - Showed a huge amount last season and improved attitude, great footskills, me curial,
7. Thursfield - great spoiler but lacks the attacking games required in to-days football
8. Tuck - played in the midfield and defence this year, strong, great ball winner
9. Farmer - Hinted at playing more in attack next season but farmer showed glimpses of form this year, great long kick, hard at it
10. Gourdis - wonderful athlete but questions about his footskills, elevated because of his improved decision making and confidence but still needs to show much more advancement to cement a place in the team.
11. O'Rielly - played 3 games in a good first season but still has a long way to go
12. Grimes - IMO will become a good players but still very raw
13. Rance - lacks polish and defensive skills, great athlete, played forward and back but juries out
14. Batchelor - Amazing prospect, mid sized natural defender with wonder ball skills, marking ability and decision-making skills, new recruit keeping him down the list
15. Dea - great physic for a young player, injury and inexperience still needs to be overcome
Thanks
Stripes
Stripes, your post from 12 months ago shows by how much our defensive options have changed over the past year. Thursty has gone, Moore is on the long-term injury list while McGuane and Connors will be lucky if they are still around at Punt Rd in another year's time. On the other hand from the bottom of the list has popped up Rance who is our No.1 key defender now with Grimes and Batch expected to continue to develop and become mainstays in our back 6 for many years to come. Spot on with your pre-season prediction for Batchelor last year btw Stripes :thumbsup.
-
A bit has changed in 12 months. Let's try our best 6 again :P
FB houli rance newman
HB grimes post batchelor
Newman is the only player who remains
-
So when I was crucified for saying we lacked depth in our back line and now with our pick ups ......... :huh....much better off after the draft/trade period... :thumbsup
-
I want what you're on Craw ;D
R.I.P Blacky
A true tugger
-
So when I was crucified for saying we lacked depth in our back line and now with our pick ups ......... :huh....much better off after the draft/trade period... :thumbsup
You get crucified so often we should just call you JC ;D
-
A bit has changed in 12 months. Let's try our best 6 again :P
FB houli rance newman
HB grimes post batchelor
Newman is the only player who remains
I'd push Newman to mid/flanker, Insert Morris and I'd probably go for Astbury, Dea or even the forgotten man McGuane over Post. With Rance taking on the role of General in defence during recent training sessions suggests that Newy is a cert to move into the middle of the ground along with Lids. Houli may also push forward regularly leaving another small defensive spot to the likes of Arnot, King, Connors or even Ellis to start with. King Conc may also drop back occasionally as a roving back flanker depending on the midfield setup.
-
Hey MT. Yes - amazing how much things have changed in just 12 months! :-\ Once again though, we are still not settled in the back six. I think Rance is the only certain starter with Grimes a wonderful prospect but still very raw. With Lids, and now with a strong possibility of Newman, moving out of the backline it leaves many spots open for mine. Just amazing the turn around of ability and responsibility. You could almost turn my list upside down and have our 2012 list. That's an amazing change imo and shows the confidence the club as placed in our young defenders.
I'm going to attempt to re-rank/order the backline again but as you can see with my last analysis, it all just playing blindfolded darts at this stage.
Here is my order based on defenders 'importance' but not necessarily form -
1. Rance - now our best tall defender. Athletic, strong and makes good decision now. Made me eat my words :-[
2. Houli - best trade of the decade! Our new general in defence. Amazing foot skills and run & carry.
3. Batchelor - an experienced head on young shoulders. A young Newy. Wonderful foot skills. Will only get better.
4. Grimes - our answer to Fletcher. Was amazed by his improvement but still lacks experience and size. Great player.
5. Moore - underrated midsized defender who can play tall and small, one of our most experienced players. We will be lucky to see him in 2012.
6. Post - Naturally skilled with great hands. Needs to step up this year and carve out a spot or its bye bye.
7. McGuane People are going to love this but our backup tall defender is still better atm than those below.
8. Dea - still raw but with a massive upside. Strong taller, quick and should become our shut down 'small' defender
9. Morris - shows amazing skills, size and ability for an unproven player. Will jump straight into the team imo.
10. Ellis - could be challenging Morris/Dea for the running defender spot. Already a great size but inexperienced.
11. Astbury - could be anything but needs a good run with injuries and needs to push into a KP spot.
12. Griffiths - Amazing talent with shoulder problems. Love to see him forward but has the size and speed to make it as a defender if needed. Unproven at present.
13. Connors - I'm uncertain where he will finish up playing and on ability alone he should be much further up the list but his attitude and injuries have handicapped him to date. Could be the big improver (again) in 2012.
It's amazing to see how many defenders we have dropped off this list - Thursfield, Gourdis, ORielly, Farmer and now Lids, Newy and Tuck.
Have a go yourself!
-
So when I was crucified for saying we lacked depth in our back line and now with our pick ups ......... :huh....much better off after the draft/trade period... :thumbsup
You get crucified so often we should just call you JC ;D
:thumbsup :lol
-
tizz Crooner :huh
-
9. Morris - shows amazing skills, size and ability for an unproven player. Will jump straight into the team imo.
??
-
Hey MT. Yes - amazing how much things have changed in just 12 months! :-\ Once again though, we are still not settled in the back six. I think Rance is the only certain starter with Grimes a wonderful prospect but still very raw. With Lids, and now with a strong possibility of Newman, moving out of the backline it leaves many spots open for mine. Just amazing the turn around of ability and responsibility. You could almost turn my list upside down and have our 2012 list. That's an amazing change imo and shows the confidence the club as placed in our young defenders.
I'm going to attempt to re-rank/order the backline again but as you can see with my last analysis, it all just playing blindfolded darts at this stage.
Here is my order based on defenders 'importance' but not necessarily form -
1. Rance - now our best tall defender. Athletic, strong and makes good decision now. Made me eat my words :-[
2. Houli - best trade of the decade! Our new general in defence. Amazing foot skills and run & carry.
3. Batchelor - an experienced head on young shoulders. A young Newy. Wonderful foot skills. Will only get better.
4. Grimes - our answer to Fletcher. Was amazed by his improvement but still lacks experience and size. Great player.
5. Moore - underrated midsized defender who can play tall and small, one of our most experienced players. We will be lucky to see him in 2012.
6. Post - Naturally skilled with great hands. Needs to step up this year and carve out a spot or its bye bye.
7. McGuane People are going to love this but our backup tall defender is still better atm than those below.
8. Dea - still raw but with a massive upside. Strong taller, quick and should become our shut down 'small' defender
9. Morris - shows amazing skills, size and ability for an unproven player. Will jump straight into the team imo.
10. Ellis - could be challenging Morris/Dea for the running defender spot. Already a great size but inexperienced.
11. Astbury - could be anything but needs a good run with injuries and needs to push into a KP spot.
12. Griffiths - Amazing talent with shoulder problems. Love to see him forward but has the size and speed to make it as a defender if needed. Unproven at present.
13. Connors - I'm uncertain where he will finish up playing and on ability alone he should be much further up the list but his attitude and injuries have handicapped him to date. Could be the big improver (again) in 2012.
It's amazing to see how many defenders we have dropped off this list - Thursfield, Gourdis, ORielly, Farmer and now Lids, Newy and Tuck.
Have a go yourself!
Assuming Newy and Lids move into the midfield/wings, my list isn't too different from yours Stripes. Not an easy thing to put together either. Our backline is still not settled and there's a number of defenders we are still working out if they can play at AFL level to the level required for us to develop into a top side.
1. Rance - Improved greatly last year to gain the No.1 key defender role. Still has areas in his game he needs to iron out IMO but his pros now outweight his cons which is something that wasn't the case 12 months earlier.
2. Houli - with Newy and Lids moving upfield Bachar becomes our best rebounding defender. Disciplined and determined with good footskills.
3. Batchelor - stepped into senior footy without missing a beat. As you say Stripes a mature head on young shoulders. Jake's apparently put on 8kgs over summer so hopefully he and his body can adjust quickly to carrying extra weight/muscle.
4. Grimes - unfortunately had his season ended early in the dreamtime game with that bad hammy when he was one of the finds of 2011. Pre-injury he clearly was good enough. The only question mark now is can his hammy hold up and can he return to that form in 2012.
5. Grigg - not a big fan but his best which we saw in the first third or so of last season lifts him above the unknowns and those on the way out. You'd expect a number of youngsters to go past him in time though for us to become a top side.
6. Post - needs a breakout year in 2012 but his versatility playing in defence and filling in as 2nd ruck/follower has him here.
7. Ellis - going out on a limb in January that barring injury he'll play at least 15-16 games this year and show why he went in the first round to us.
8. Morris - barring injury clearly is set for round 1 as a back-pocket. Effectively thrown in the deep end again the likes of a Garlett or Betts.
9. Moore - would be higher if fully fit, conditioned and injury-free but being on the LTIL with no guarantee of playing again has him here.
10. Astbury - After a promising debut season, 2nd year blues kicked in last year. Dave didn't seem to cope with the added bulk put on last preseason. The kneecap injury finished off a year to forget. Hopefully the 'graph' heads back in the right direction this year.
11. Dea - Jury still out for mine if he can play at this level but the coaches and selection committee are fans of Matty so he'll get games.
12. McGuane - Despite Dimma's promise of no senior guernseys being handed out and games being earned, I can't see Luke playing seniors unless there's injuries to our other key defenders. Just too many brainfades especially for a backman.
13. Connors - needs a lightswitch to turn on above the shoulders and an injury-free run otherwise Dan will spend most of the season at Coburg before getting the chop.
14. Griffiths - unknown as a defender having played forward as a junior and in his first two years of AFL. Most likely just a temporary measure as part of his overall footy education and according to the training thread to protect his body from hard pack collisions while he returns from his shoulder injury.
15. Verrier - rookie. Unlikely to play seniors this year as he's very raw.
-
im having a go at this.
i think most now agree mcguane is a dud and moore is not or should not play kp.
shame about gourdis but i stand by my comments that we were better off trying him at fb chb than both mcguane and moore.
okay our tall defenders.
rance - most over rated player on our list who has much to prove. poor one on one. poor in the air. and lacks judgement. despite these things managed to play some good footy and his season was a pass.
i still think him a running defender rather than a pure defender. should play chb or third tall.does have potential.
grimes - has to be our future fb, geez the assurance in the air then compare him to rance. they are chalk and cheese. wont play fb this yr still needs size and strength to play the role.has to get some confidence as well after a pretty nasty injury.
moore - his whole career has been riddled with injury apart from basically 08. it has always been my opinion that hes too small to play as a kpp. at 190cm he usually gives away a lot of height and at 86kg his playing weight till last yr, just not big enough. no wonder this bloke keeps on copping injuries.
for mine in 2012 hes in competition with grimes for the third tall role. i have to say i prefer we keep putting games into grimes. the other option is we play him as an accountable running defender in a similar way to batchelor. to do the latter he needs to work on a few things. 1/motor. 2/ pace. 3/ finding a bit more of the ball. this latter option is my prefered one.
post - is a chb imo have always said it. they have pulled this bloke from pillar to post. they have to put him at chb and leave him there. one thing for sure he needs to improve. again compare this bloke in the air to rance the gulf is huge.
astbury - while i think hes primarily a forward he may make it as a defender who knows. if hes to play back hes in competition with post this yr. one thing for sure we cant play four of rance post grimes and astbury down back. come game day one of that quartet will miss out.
mcguane - well i have to question why we even kept him on the list. i would have been tempted to pay him out of his contract. sheesh they are dumb how could he get multiple yrs on his contract with his performances.
griffiths - lol at this one. plain and simple he is not a backman. plain and simple he is a ff.
wright - a rookie. who knows with rookies. i will say though this kid is of a type that is a rarity at out club. if this kid grows a couple of cm and gets to around 100kg which is on the cards we will have that badly needed gorilla we have been looking for down back for the last 25 yrs.
does he have the talent? who knows ? we will find that out over the next few yrs. i tell ya what though if he shows enough at coburg this yr i would be giving him a few games later in the yr.
darrou - another rookie. a genuine tall at 190cm dont know a lot about him. seems to me he plays more like a medium where he can do a job on both mediums and talls. apparently is a v/good user of the ball and makes good decisions both in the air and with ball in hand. he may be in competition with moore and grimes atm. its highly likely he wont get a game this yr. but hey never say never.
thats it for the talls. the reality for me is until moore gets fit we have just 4 genuine tall options to start the yr.
now for the medium/smalls.
first off it seems deledio is moving to midfield. this move leaves the backhalf very short on for experience. if brett does go to midfield there is no way newman will be taken out of the backline.
newman - the skipper. a solid citizen and will be given the job of general and main deliver of the ball coming out.
morris - well at 23 we got him for a reason. has to be ready to go and only has to show a bit in the pre season to start imo. most have him pegged in as a bp and i guess we need one. but i would not be surprised to see him as our designated tagger and he starts on someone like judd or murphy.
dea - well ive had raps on this kid for a while now i think if he shows good pre season form he will start rnd one. if he does get a game i can see batchelor given a midfield role. tough runs straight lines and is accountable. is not a small hes a real good sized medium player. one other thing he does have good pace. he could well be given lock down roles this yr.
connors - simply put i have never ever rated him as a defender. he needs to build a big motor and play as part of midfield rotations swapping up forward.a total lack of accountability and regular elementary mistakes means he is not allowed in the backline.
houli - well yep he had an okay yr but now that newman is back fit he moves to a wing and midfield rotations. wont go into his weaknesses down back as it just causes a bun fight.
ellis - again where do we fit him in. to me he is again a part of midfield rotations. wing could swap hb with batchelor at times.
verrier - another rookie hb is a great place to introduce kids to afl i dunno i just dont see him as a hb more a mid. have seen a smidge of him and have to say he did not impress. would think 2012 is a big development yr at coburg for him.
grigg - well for me hes an outside player, for me he just doesnt have the footskills to be coming off hb. to me he is tall running marking wingman.
lets see now my prefered back 6 for 2012. needless to say i would not play deledio out of defence but we know its going to happen.can i also say we have a lot of talented young players/defenders who need to get a game. some of those defenders are capable of playing else where batchelor houli ellis deledio grigg can all rotate thru the middle
b/ morris - rance - grimes.
hb/ dea - post/astbury - newman/batchelor
what the hell may as well do the rest
c/ deledio - cotchin - ellis
hf macdonald - riewoldt - conca/ohanlon
f/ vickery - griffiths - a maric/king
r/ maric/derickx - martin - foley
int/ houli - tuck - helbig - nahas/grigg/moore when fit./connors.
thats a squad of 30.
rank our defense well simply put young and inexperienced with question marks over the key posts. medium/smalls look very promising but again thats what it is atm promising.
one thing for sure its one area we can cop a few injuries and not be decimated.